Don't go hatin on Donna Lee. For people who struggle with this song, I totally understand where you are coming from. There is no one outlining chords in the background, which naturally makes any piece of music difficult to follow. And it's not like Donna Lee is an easy piece of music either - it's quite difficult to master the chords. So seriously, for everyone that is getting angry at the lesser experienced musicians, at least they're listening to this great piece of music! That's what matters!
I love your comment, and I might I revise that "giant steps" is seen more of the rite of passage for jazz musicians everywhere. I would also love to see the people you criticize in your comment to give THAT piece a shot. if they can't even comprehend this, their mind will surely just burst at Coltrane's legendary tune.
@ragglefraggle09 the head of giant steps is relatively easy; the chords changes are tough. The head of donna lee is tough, but its chord changes are fairly straightforward.
How can the few of you that are hating on this song even begin to talk sh*t about the dead? What is your criticism actually going to accomplish? Do you think he's going to read this and try to change his technique or style so that you like it? NO! Go try playing this song, then get back to me when you're done crying for attention in your negative black hole somewhere in some boring state like Wisconsin.
how does somebody find this and then claim it to be random, i dont understand, to find this video you realy should know who miles davis or jaco himself is, and if you know who they are you should know what donna lee is or at least what a chord progression is
In an interview with Jaco Pastorious, the interviewer asked Jaco who was the best Bassist on the planet and he said...Israel Çachao" Lopez...This is said by jaco himself...
@LasFrambuesas ¿Parece? ¡No muchas personas merecen existir al lado de Jaco! Una de ellas, NHO Pedersen, para no salir de los bajistas; hubiera sido una linda zapadita esa... uno con el contra y el otro con el fretless
I also think its the best start to a bass cd ever.....its a great tribute to genius.......Parker.....Miles.....who ever wrote it.....i loved he way Jaco paid respect to those dudes on the first track...............
@godofmetal712 - Bird took the credit for this, but there's a view out there that says Miles Davis wrote this melody. I tend to agree that it's Miles b/c Bird's music is not as smooth as the melody for Donna Lee - check out Confirmation, Ornithology, Anthropology, and any blues that Bird wrote. Alot of Bird's music stops and starts in weird spots where as Miles' music is very smooth. Whoever wrote this, Jaco's playing is insane.
@holygroove2 its charlie parker. miles davis was a smart business man, for example he got the credit for nardis in the real book, even thoug bill evans wrote it.. and so on and so on :p
@ilikemusicverymuch - In the Quincy Trope autobiography, pg 103 and 104 it says "I wrote a tune for the album called "Donna Lee," which was the 1st tune of mine that was ever recorded. But when the record came out, it listed Bird as the composer.It wasn't Bird's fault, though. The record company made a mistake and I didn't lose no money or nothing." There are 2 factions. I'm of the opinion that Miles wrote it, b/c it sounds like something he'd write. Bird's phrasing was rarely like Donna Lee.
@ilikemusicverymuch - Miles did his thing and it was beautiful, but people get things skewed b/c of his persona,rumors etc. You have to ask around and do research etc. He's not an easy person to get accurate information about. He was def a smart, shrewd buisnessman though. I think that's something that carries through in all the stories I've heard and read about him.
@holygroove2 Miles did claim to write Donna Lee in his autobiography. He said that whoever transcribed the credits for Bird's album gave Bird the credit for writing Donna Lee. For Miles, the error seemed to be no big deal.
@holygroove2 For what I understand Miles did right it but Bird released it first and mistakenly got credit for it in the linear notes. Just what I've heard though so I could be completely wrong.
I thought Jaco the was most exciting thing in jazz during his time......he should have worked with loads of other people like tania maria and similar souls.....amazingly gifted but he limited his options....like not playing with piano players out of respect for the weather report dude.......i mean cmon Jaco......i know there was alot of pressure on him to come up with shit.......but he should have arranged albums for other talents.......sad waste. But the work stands the test of time. The best.
Ah....the Jazz Police have to come and ruin everything ! One of the greatest composers / bassists / musicians of the last 50 years PERIOD....WRITE IT DOWN !
This confuses me...why are people talking about the technical aspects of this song. I am a jazz fan but not a jazz snob. There is a back beat but his notes mean nothing to the overall composition. This is the type of music Miles used to play and made no structural sense. Its a collection of random jips and strums and jabs that are meaningless to the overall song. 9 years to learn WHAT?
"When he said it took 9 years to learn "Donna Lee", he meant that it took 9 years to be at the level he was at when he recorded the album-version. It doesn't mean that he used 9 years to learn it. LOL. He started practicing it in 1973 and therefore only used two years to perfect it, as the sessions that produced his debut-album commenced in the fall of 1975."
@1980Triumph look up marcus miller's commentary on donna lee, you'll understand why this song is fucking genius, its not just random notes he goes through different variations of complex jazz scales and meshes them perfectly, if you can't hear the genius then you're not listening right . . .. CUNT
Miller is a total ass when it comes to Jaco which is why I lose respect for him, he is just following the crowd in praise of Jaco....just like all the rock losers praise the shitty Beatles. Also your mom is a filthy loser you jerkoff!
This is just one of dozens of disrespectful and downright mean comments you have spilled all over Jaco's videos. You have made your point long ago, now do everyone a favor and disappear!
@Commanderc001 - just ask people who don't understand to post videos of them playing this song. Then they'll try to pick up the bass and see why Jaco was the man. For me personally, it wasn't even about the scales. It was about his incredible facility - all the masters make things seem easy! AND I agree with Marcus. If you wanna talk about scales and etc, Jaco had all of that too!
I felt that way when I just started listening to jazz. I thought some of it was good, but I thought some of those were just pulling notes aout of the air. Even when I heard this tune at first I felt that way. But as I learned more and more jazz, my opinion changed dramatically. I assure you that nothing is played randomly here. His playing over the changes is fluid and excellent. You just gotta listen to the notes that arn't being played. It's all about harmonic structure.
@1980Triumph In order to understand what he's doing, you just have to know the chords from which he's deriving the notes of his solo (not to mention the head). If you listen to any band play this tune so you get the chords in your head and you go back and listen to this, you'll gain a new appreciation for Jaco's sheer genius. SO many substitutions, and I love the transposition to E for the recap. of the head.
@CrandMackerel Finally, someone who understands music and theory, not just some tard who thinks it's random crap. Thank you for making the world realize that there are people like us who understand music and it's not all stupid jibber jabber :)
@CrandMackerel it sounds random to people uneducated in theory because it is an atonal piece with a chromatic approach, as you said though, he is outlining chords overlapped with scale patterns. it just lacks a key and an organized progression of those outlined chords
@CrandMackerel This solo does not sound random at all to me but still if Jaco decided to play his solo like this he should have made sure that everyone understands where all his phrases and licks are coming from.
Don Alias,the percussionist on this track, stated on several occasions that Donna Lee was recorded in one take, Bob Bobbing has also confirmed
this... also saying that, while Jaco had a good idea how to approach his solos, he NEVER wrote down or had the solo entirely worked-out prior to recording. This, from people who were actually there at the time. It is reasonable to say that there is some improvisation there.
An amazing solo by Jaco. Yes, this version was written out- it was not improvised. To be fair though, this was for his album. It was recorded in a studio, and time in a studio costs a lot. He came in with a plan - which is understandable. He never played the same solo twice though at his shows. You can only capture jazz so well on an album. The best jazz is the stuff you hear live at clubs and venues. Hearing jazz in person is much better than any jazz album.
What do you mean? Jaco could read music, check out his Modern Electric Bass instructional. He really had to sit down and learn to read music especially when he was with weather report And even if he didn't read music at the time his album came out, he still knew what he was playing - it wasn't improvised. It may have not been written or transcribed, but it was planned out. Do you really think the self proclaimed worlds greatest bassist could not read music? Come on now, get serious...
It might've been rehearsed but the bottom line is that it was his first album, so he probably wanted to showcase his technical ability instead of his improvisational skills
who cares if it's totally improvised? tell me that groove merchant by thad jones mel lewis big band isn't jazz! i disagree that jazz MUST be improvised. by that logic when bands play the heads of tunes that is not jazz. the jazz only starts in the solos. oh and if they use any licks then that is not jazz. or scales.
@SilverJ4 you obviously don't understand what i'm talking about;i'm not speaking about heads(i'm not that stupid) but thanks anyway for your useless insight
@Pastorius333 " I met him in 79-80 and hung out with him off and on until he passed away....Once he said, "You think you're bad 'cause you can improvise!!" I came to find out that a lot of his stuff wasn't improvised. When I was a kid I thought it was and was banging my brains trying to figure how to improvise such perfectly constructed and flawlessly executed solos.It turns out that even Jaco couldn't improvise those perfect solos - he used to compose the solos then perform them..." Marcus M.
@Pastorius333 I haven't waited after YouTube to exist to start searchin for Jaco bootlegs (i started listening to his music back in '89 or '90) Improvising over Invitation, Dolphin Dance or I shot the sheriff has nothing to do with be bop chord changes-wise. Do you really think someone can have several ways of approaching about improvisation? like one for studio, one for the live gigs...come on.
@Pastorius333 ok why not? but if it's like All the things you are with Metheny, don't bother...it's still impressive to hear what he did on bass solo-wise but nothing compared to great horn, piano or double bass players (i'm not gonna start droppin names, it'd be too long) Peace out.
@Fjord76 I slightly disagree. While improvisation is certainly a key part in what makes jazz wonderful, it is not what defines it as a genera. Jazz is most keenly defined from others by the chord progressions and, slightly, by the syncopation/swing note style.
But really, i should save my breath and just say that you should probably brush up on your jazz a little bit. It's not improvised, because it is an almost perfect cover of the main melody.
Interesting debate - I gotta jump in. I feel jazz is more of an art form than a style of music. When I hear the word 'jazz' I think of things such as being in the moment and improve, not so much what defines jazz (chord changes, tune heads). Jazz is the most free form of music (even more so, free jazz, but I won't get into that). To define jazz is to limit it. I know that isn't what your saying, but if something is planned out that sounds like jazz, then its 'fake jazz'
I feel jazz is all about playing in the moment - and a great jazz musician never plays the same thing twice. That is where the 'art' of jazz comes into play. I respect your opinion, but I just don't agree with it.
@ZappaFan101 That would be like saying "big band" jazz is fake because the vast majority of big band is, indeed, pre-written, with only short sections -written in- specifically for improv, rather than the whole thing being improvised over chord progressions. Where as smaller bands, to the point of simply being a combo group, would be "real" jazz?
In a sense, yes. The idea of something being written down and rehearsed takes away from the element of art that jazz has. I love big band but I just dont see it on the same level as a quartet of be boppers or something similar. Big bands and swing were huge back in the day because the music had much more structure than other forms. It was catchy and accessible to most people who dont know anything about jazz because its freedom was limited. I feel it's pop music from the 30s.
And then Parker and the boppers came onto the scene. At the time, most swing fans didn't get what the hell they were trying to do. They failed to see the art of improv
@ZappaFan101 Seems more like by trying to say that jazz is free, you are actually limiting it. Jazz encompasses all styles, and to say one form is better than another belittles the over all picture.
But I am not arguing the styles of jazz, I am arguing the element of improv. the thing that makes jazz. Why do you think jazz is known as an artform? There are plenty of genres out there - so why aren't they referred to as artforms of music? Jazz has chords like every other genre, so it has to be the approach to the music (the interpretation in the moment) itself.
@ZappaFan101 Alright, and now you're belittling other forms of music. Whether its what you meant or not, you very clearly implied that jazz is an art, where as, for example, Tchaikovsky's work is not art. And then saying that you aren't arguing that there are different styles of jazz, but still pushing that improve "makes" jazz. Whew. You're starting to run around in circles! I give up, you win. =] No sense in chasing our tails all night.
I'm not downing ANY music - I love it all. You are failing to see the difference in jazz and just about any other genere, Jazz is considered an artform because the art itself is in the interpretation of the tune. Yes, all genres are an artform, but jazz takes it to a whole other level. A real jazz musician has to know all the ins and outs of their instrument, where as any other genre does not require that as strongly. Getting it down and playing in the moment is what makes jazz..
@ShadowRogue1990 don't need to "brush up my jazz" to know that there ain't any "true" jazz player who ever recorded a written solo. Besides, I don't care if the main melody is perfectly covered since I was talking about the solo (which begins at 0:34 if you don't hear the difference)...and i know Miles claimed that he wrote this:I read his autobiography many times (and the fisrt time, you were hardly born btw)
@Fjord76 So you're saying that Jaco wasn't a true jazz artist? Now -that- is funny. And congratulations on reading the biography! Do you know the details directly contributing to the mix up of the two artist? Just curious, for your knowledge seems to be vast.
@ShadowRogue1990 your sarcasm shows that i hurt your feelings...Ok,here we go: I wrote "true" jazz player with " " cause it don't mean a thing, it's obvious that Jaco's music can't be related to only one genre and it's also obvious that his ego made him write this solo so that his first album's tune would highly impress the music world...all I was saying is that when i first heard this circa '89, my jaw dropped and i've been very disapointed when i found out it was improvised, that's all...
I'd understand if you didn't regard Jaco as a "true" jazz-artist if he wrote "all" his recorded solos, but the fact is that he didn't. For example, his solo on "Punk Jazz" was improvised, and all his solos on "Bright Size Life". As for his supposedly composed solos, his early years-collegues in Flordia can attest to the fact that when he was evolving as a musician in the late 1960's early 1970's, he was a cliche-free and unparallelled improviser on the electric bass...
@Pastorius333 you can't compare Donna Lee' s solo with Punk Jazz's or we definately aren't speaking of the same thing. I'm prettty sure Bright size life solo's improvised but once again, chord changes-wise it's not be bop music ...
Part 2: ...In fact, some went as far as saying that he was the best improviser they had seen on any instrument. They DID however say that he DID have a plan for "Donna Lee" and some of his other studio-solos, but it was never written out note for note like some people believe. The plan was very sketched, and from what I've heard he didn't even stick completely to them! He loved to come up with ideas on the spot. You also have to consider that he had practiced "Donna Lee" in...
@Pastorius333 I don't care if Jaco's early years collegues went saying he was the best improviser THEY had ever seen and once again, I'm only speaking of improvisation over multiple chord changes at fast tempo (be bop music)...
Part 3: ...various settings for almost two years before recording it ( with different solos every time of course) and had played through the changes so many times that he had probably figured out what passages would astound most people who listened to his album. And I seriously doubt that Pat Metheny, one of the greatest jazz guitarists of all time, would gig with Jaco on and off for 4 years if he felt he wasn't a brilliant improvisor. Same goes for Ira Sullivan and Alex Darqui.
@Pastorius333 Pat Metheny's music at the time he played with Jaco was influenced by hard-bop or free jazz (hence the Ornette Coleman cover on Bright Size Life) not be bop and have a ever heard Alex Darqui improvise? he almost sound like a drunk Herbie Hancock...
My comments were directed at the post where you stated that Jaco wasn't a "true" jazz artist, not whether or not he played be-bop. Seems like you totally missed my point. And have you ever heard Joe Diorio and Ira Sullivan? Both master be-boppers and early years collegues of Jaco who definitely know what they are talking about. You seem so desperate in trying to downplay Jaco's repuation that it's on the verge of being strange. And Alex Darqui is well respected globally.
@Pastorius333 it's just that i don't believe in this 'best bass player ever' thing, that's all. If you know Jaco's history so well, you should know that he had never claimed to be a 'true' jazz artist (hence Punk Jazz for instance) Sullivan & Dorio,be bop masters? yeah right! i'm done arguing with you.No hard feelings though,peace out
Ok, I respect your opinion. Let me send you some mp3's of Ira Sullivan though..the man was an unparallelled multi-instrumentalist, and many people regard him as the "white Charlie Parker". He can play over bebop-changes just as fast if not faster than Mr.Parker. Amd If a "true jazz artist is someone who plays exclusively jazz, then Jaco doesn't fit that description. However, just the fact that he loved other styles as well doesn't diminish his importance as a soloist.....
In a more traditional jazz-context. It's true that he usually played more modern jazz when visited that genre. Are you saying that anything post Coltrane can't be classified as "true" jazz? Even Joe Zawinul despised that Weather Report was labeled as fusion, same with Jaco. I'm glad that Jaco couldn't care less about jazz-snobs whose definition of "true" jazz was so conservative and narrow. That's one of the things that made him so great, he was never afraid to go in the....
Part 3:....opposite direction of what might have been labeled as jazz at the time. "Donna Lee" was even dismissed as "showboating" by many of the critics at the time. He pioneered the electric bass with countless new methods of playing, he had unprecedented facility, he popularized the electric bass and made it the instrument it is today, he played jazz, funk, soul, R&B, samba, rock and even reggae!
And he was equally versatile when it came to his brilliant composing....
Part 4: ..and at the same time he was a respected arranger. No one could touch him at the time, and in my opinion no one do even today. Many can cop his speed, but his choice of notes, flawless emtional expression on the fretless with perfect intonation, feeling, sould and charismatic persona remains unbeaten. Ask any professional bassist. I'm sure even Jeff Berlin feels the same( even though he probably won't admit it). Jaco was an innovator, and he played better than anyone in...
a song with a vocalist context( have you heard his bass-lines with Joni Mitchell?), so called "fusion" and he was one of the funkiest bassists you're ever gonna hear. And of course he was also a respected jazz-musician, whether you like it or not...all these factors are why Jaco constantly wins polls for best bassist ever and is therefore probably the most objective answer you can get to who's entitled to that "position". I'm sorry that you're so disappointed over fact that...
@Pastorius333 you seem to forget that i know Jaco's recordings at least as well as you...so yes I've heard his work with Joni mitchell...hundreds of times! but you know what's my fav track off Heijira? Amelia...one of the most beautiful song i've ever heard and there's no Jaco on it
Part 6: ..his "Donna Lee" solo wasn't completely improvised. But like I mentioned earlier, it wasn't written out note for note like some people love to think. He had a very basic plan, what you might call a sketch. He used some simple guidelines, but still partly improvised because he never followed it completely. Same with "Havona". As far as I know, these two tracks( and "(Used To Be A) Cha-Cha)" are the only ones he did this with. SO, he DIDN'T write those three note for note.
@Pastorius333 Havona's solo is an edit of several takes...what i'm tryin to say is that solos(Donna Lee, Cha Cha & Havona) are impossible to improvise...Punk Jazz or Port of Entry are improvised and i LOVE the energy but it's not the same on an harmonic level...please tell me we're done now :(
I didn't doubt that you had heard him with Joni( although it may have sounded like it). I'm not trying to make this into a contest( and I'm not trying to be arrogant), but I wouldn't say that you know Jaco "at least as well as I do". You don't have all the bootlegs that I have.( The tracks I sent you don't even make up a fraction of all the Jaco/Weather Report/Joni Mitchell bootlegs that I have). Anyway, I have a few live tracks of "Donna Lee".....
...That I haven't sent you yet. If even those can't make you change your opinion about his playing, the I guess nothing will :( But let me assure you that I'm not attempting to offend you or anything, it's just that in my opinion Jaco was an excellent improvisor and I can't comprehend that other people can't think the same. That says something about how great I think he is...Have you heard his solo on"History" from the Live In NYC-series. It's not bebop, but his phrasing...
@Fjord76 What about the harmonics? the vibrator in certain segments of the solo? the arrangement? Whatever was originally written, the parts I just mentioned weren't. They are very few bassist in the history of Jazz with a sound as distinct as Jaco Pastorius, and he's in full flight on this track. It certainly sounds like his interpretation of this famous Bird piece, and it definitely sounds like Jazz to me!
@timages13 I've never questioned Jaco's distinct sound (i'm not deaf...yet) but if improvising for you comes down to adding an harmonic chord and vibrato here and there,well we definately aren't speaking of the same thing (which is obvious when you mention arrangement) If he really was the killer bebop improviser we can hear on Donna Lee, why can't we find any other recordings of these particular skills? his illness or lack of practice has nothing to do with it...
@Fjord76 He's paying homage to that genre, I don't think it was ever his intention to do any more bebop then that. He stays true to the original adding his own stylistic flair because it's a homage to that music. Pastorius came from an r&b background, playing funk in southern Florida as a teenager. It was only later that he learned how to read music. I think Donna Lee, with the simple arrangement he uses was a great choice and a perfect vehicle to showcase his distinct sound, and yes virtuosity.
@timages13 I also think that his arrangement choice was a perfect vehicle to showcase his own voice and virtuosity but it wasn't the point of my comment.
One of Jaco's fave quotes was "it ain't braggin if you can back it up" and after hearing several live renditions of Donna Lee, well...he couldn't.
@Fjord76 I didn't know that, honestly I've never heard Donna Lee live by Jaco, I'll give it a listen. About live performances, I usually prefer the recorded versions of most music. I've heard great bands live and they rarely are as good as their recordings; the exception being the Wayne Shorter Quartet recently, amazing. Jaco to his credit brought something exciting to the bass, playing the horn part of Donna Lee with just a conga and that fat sound for his opening track at 24 yrs old...wow.
1. I fully agree with you on the wayne shorter 4tet, saw 'em twice in 2001&2003 and...Wow!!!
2. About this version of Donna Lee, i've that Jaco wrote this solo so that his first album's tune would highly impress the music world...well it seemed that it worked out pretty well (and on me too ;)
@Fjord76 I'm glad you liked Wayne Shorter Quartet, Wayne just knocks me out! He's still breaking new ground when most musicians his age are either done or repeating themselves, what an inspiration! And his band! at every chair killer players. The night I saw them Danilo Perez and Brian Blades just went off, I was speechless. I don't think there's a better Jazz band going right now. What a career for Wayne! playing and writing for Miles, Weather Report...and everything in between, incredible.
@timages13 I'm always amazed at how ,in a 50 years career that spans from his gig with Art Blakey to his 4tet, Wayne never ceased to raise the bar! To me as well, his 4tet is the best around (Branford's is very close behind though) I know very well and love every step of his musical path;do you happen to know Highlife from '95? one of my fav of his album
@Fjord76 I know all Wayne's music, I have to say without question he's my favorite musician. My older brother took my to see him and Weather Report when I was a kid at the Beacon here in NYC. I remember him standing there, eyes closed most of the time, just his horn, and he was to these ears anyway the best musician on that stage. And it's been that way ever since. I just saw him recently at Carnegie Hall for Herbie Hancock's birthday, what a disappointment! Hancock playing John Lennon songs!
@timages13 You know, older jazzmen used to play songs from musicals that were popular at the time so i guess it's quite right for herbie to play Lennon's songs if he feels like to but to each his own ;) When I first saw Wayne back in '91, it was with a all-stars band featuring Herbie, Stanley & Omar Hakim and to be honest, i hadn't been much moved by this performance...
@timages13 What irritated me the most about that concert was on stage that night was: Ron Carter, Jack DeJonette, Wayne, and Herbie Hancock. Given the age of these stars, and the likelihood that I'll ever see them play together again is close to never. And to play the kind of music they played that night was as close to a musical sacrilege as I've ever experienced. We're talking Jazz Royalty here, the three remaining members of the great second quintet. I'll never go to a Hancock concert again!
@timages13 yeah i hear ya but i'm sure that when he did Headhunters or Rock it later, many of his long time fans must have felt very disapointed too...same with Miles and his Silent Way/Bitches brew/Around the Corner era...
@Fjord76 Good Point, I forget what earlier era fans of Miles must have thought when they first heard In A Silent Way, (one of my all time favorite albums). If you cherished music like Sketches of Spain and ESP it had to be difficult, if not impossible to embrace. Not so with Wayne, wherever he's gone it seems like another fantastic revelation of his enormous talent...to these ears anyway.
I completely disagree. In jazz, there is almost ALWAYS a repeated melody in a song, very rarely only improv chart. One might say jazz combos are mostly improv, which i agree. however, there is usually a repeated melody somewhere in there, so people can recognize the song.
It would also be completely unfair to say jazz combos are all the make-up of jazz.
Oh, and the dim. 5th chord at the end was pretty awesome. just sayin.
Back in late 76, people were talking to me [amateur bassist], about this new wonder bass star from America. Stan Clarke was the epitome of bass class at the time. It took me 2 years to finally hear Jaco [no internet back then] and this was the first thing I heard. Needless to say I was gobsmacked. No-one [in my circle - or wider] had ever reckoned with that level of mastery and the complex grasp of harmony etc. He was every bit as good as they said and of course, countless times better.
Yes, Bird wrote Donna Lee. It is based upon the old Tune, "Back Home In Alabama." Many of the great bop tunes were written over old show tunes. There are about 20 alone written over "I've Got Rhythm." That is why knowing "Rhythm Changes" is a part of ever Jazz players vocabulary.
@robschuh The name of the original tune is "Back home again in Indiana", or just "Indiana"; written by Ballard MacDonald and James Hanley in 1917, if I'm not wrong.
I always thought Bird wrote that and I looked it up and he recorded it first and held the copyright, but it was Mile's first recorded comp...Jaco takes it to a new level on the Bass...
@SoldatoPalladiLard0 Miles wrote in Parker's quintet, and on the first LP it was recorded in Parker's quintet under Parker's name. Parker noted this and changed it for the future, but it's still commonly credited to Bird.
AMAZING!!!!!
babyb120306 2 weeks ago
the seven people who disliked this cant hold a bass!
Youtub3rh4x0r 3 weeks ago
@Youtub3rh4x0r No, they can hold it, they just still have frets on it, haha
Charod3 3 weeks ago
@Youtub3rh4x0r or maybe they don't have arms
ToxicPlaygroundMusic 3 weeks ago
dat tone
Tennisers 1 month ago 4
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Tennisers 1 month ago
Jaco practice this song for five years before he recorded it. It's a lesson for those who want instant recognition.
MrUninsi 2 months ago 3
@MrUninsi
2 years.
Musicenthusiasm 2 months ago
the volume is too low :-(((
degadaitalia 3 months ago
Simply amazing. Doubtful the world will ever again see such a revolutionary genius on the bass - or any instrument for that matter.
DaemonicNimrod 3 months ago
DAMN!!
leopunkmetal 3 months ago
This is one of my audition pieces for Berklee. God help me...
sanctusignis 4 months ago
@sanctusignis Best of luck man :D
Jellieb13 4 months ago
@sanctusignis Good luck. This song is a bitch.
Annonymus121 3 months ago
@sanctusignis Cool, you're getting into Berklee? Nice!
cursedswordsman 3 months ago
this is great.heres the most amazing part is that he takes it up in key when he comes back into the head the last time.
74choppzilla 4 months ago
wie vind het nog meer op hans teeuwen lijken? =P
Brzrkr667 5 months ago
@Brzrkr667 hem*
Brzrkr667 5 months ago
I tried learning this song. I gave up playing it after about five minutes :P
TheMartini1234 5 months ago
Don't go hatin on Donna Lee. For people who struggle with this song, I totally understand where you are coming from. There is no one outlining chords in the background, which naturally makes any piece of music difficult to follow. And it's not like Donna Lee is an easy piece of music either - it's quite difficult to master the chords. So seriously, for everyone that is getting angry at the lesser experienced musicians, at least they're listening to this great piece of music! That's what matters!
theschwarz11 6 months ago 2
I want a fretless bass :'(
nbah92 6 months ago
It astounds me at how ignorant people are in their comments about music.
It isn't atonal... there is a rather simple chord progression under the melody.
The melody is somewhat chromatic but it has a definite tonal center throughout.
If you can't comprehend what you are hearing don't try to describe it, please.
This piece is pretty much a rite of passage for serious jazz players.
You can either master it or you can't.
dbbubba 7 months ago 4
@dbbubba
I love your comment, and I might I revise that "giant steps" is seen more of the rite of passage for jazz musicians everywhere. I would also love to see the people you criticize in your comment to give THAT piece a shot. if they can't even comprehend this, their mind will surely just burst at Coltrane's legendary tune.
ragglefraggle09 5 months ago
@ragglefraggle09 the head of giant steps is relatively easy; the chords changes are tough. The head of donna lee is tough, but its chord changes are fairly straightforward.
packers56789 5 months ago
@packers56789
i agree =)
then again its the changes and changing tonal center of "giant steps" that makes it so daunting.. jazz is 99% improv
ragglefraggle09 5 months ago
How can the few of you that are hating on this song even begin to talk sh*t about the dead? What is your criticism actually going to accomplish? Do you think he's going to read this and try to change his technique or style so that you like it? NO! Go try playing this song, then get back to me when you're done crying for attention in your negative black hole somewhere in some boring state like Wisconsin.
melieche 10 months ago
@melieche That's funny.but Arkansas is more of a shit state, that's where the Clintoons come from.
SuperJerkyBoys 7 months ago
how does somebody find this and then claim it to be random, i dont understand, to find this video you realy should know who miles davis or jaco himself is, and if you know who they are you should know what donna lee is or at least what a chord progression is
Saugori 11 months ago
This is actually extremely good.
Jaco was one of the best bassists ever, its a shame that he died too young.
BUT, compared with Niels-Henning Orsted Pedersen (on upright bass), he is faar from as good as NHOP.
arnythaking 11 months ago
not as good as the original..but great
ilikeeverything69 11 months ago
i love the bongo part
volcomscooter29 11 months ago
@volcomscooter29 I thought those were congas.
ealiagac 11 months ago
In an interview with Jaco Pastorious, the interviewer asked Jaco who was the best Bassist on the planet and he said...Israel Çachao" Lopez...This is said by jaco himself...
JazzPoetic65 1 year ago
no se olviden del que toca los bongoes jajajaj parece ni existir al lado de jaco
LasFrambuesas 1 year ago
@LasFrambuesas ¿Parece? ¡No muchas personas merecen existir al lado de Jaco! Una de ellas, NHO Pedersen, para no salir de los bajistas; hubiera sido una linda zapadita esa... uno con el contra y el otro con el fretless
OscarPetersonFan 11 months ago
@OscarPetersonFan tal cual
LasFrambuesas 11 months ago
@LasFrambuesas Bueno, es que Jaco se roba el show, pero tú sabes que el trabajo de los percusionistas es importantísimo. Son la base de todo.
ealiagac 11 months ago
it hurts to listen to let alone play
WiiGamerof1995 1 year ago
Oh god whats the next song called after DonnaLee on the album lol...? I so wanted this vid to just go onto the next song :(
Jaco never realy died... he will always be with us until we die and future generations!!!!
bassbiglik0 1 year ago
I'm awesome, I'm Jaco's successor.
eddynaco 1 year ago
another dimension.
many people can imitate his style,but nobody can reach there.
it`s all inside of his brain.
Jaco is true genius.
hongkongkingkong 1 year ago
1:58 - I love that bend :)
2manypubs4borat 1 year ago
@2manypubs4borat That's not a bend, that's a so called vibrato!
YeahChonas 1 year ago
Comment removed
Fjord76 1 year ago 16
I also think its the best start to a bass cd ever.....its a great tribute to genius.......Parker.....Miles.....who ever wrote it.....i loved he way Jaco paid respect to those dudes on the first track...............
dojufitz 1 year ago 2
@dojufitz Its Charlie Parker's song, just to let you know my man
godofmetal712 1 year ago
@godofmetal712 - Bird took the credit for this, but there's a view out there that says Miles Davis wrote this melody. I tend to agree that it's Miles b/c Bird's music is not as smooth as the melody for Donna Lee - check out Confirmation, Ornithology, Anthropology, and any blues that Bird wrote. Alot of Bird's music stops and starts in weird spots where as Miles' music is very smooth. Whoever wrote this, Jaco's playing is insane.
holygroove2 1 year ago 9
@holygroove2 its charlie parker. miles davis was a smart business man, for example he got the credit for nardis in the real book, even thoug bill evans wrote it.. and so on and so on :p
ilikemusicverymuch 1 year ago
@ilikemusicverymuch - In the Quincy Trope autobiography, pg 103 and 104 it says "I wrote a tune for the album called "Donna Lee," which was the 1st tune of mine that was ever recorded. But when the record came out, it listed Bird as the composer.It wasn't Bird's fault, though. The record company made a mistake and I didn't lose no money or nothing." There are 2 factions. I'm of the opinion that Miles wrote it, b/c it sounds like something he'd write. Bird's phrasing was rarely like Donna Lee.
holygroove2 1 year ago
@ilikemusicverymuch - Miles did his thing and it was beautiful, but people get things skewed b/c of his persona,rumors etc. You have to ask around and do research etc. He's not an easy person to get accurate information about. He was def a smart, shrewd buisnessman though. I think that's something that carries through in all the stories I've heard and read about him.
holygroove2 1 year ago
@holygroove2 Miles did claim to write Donna Lee in his autobiography. He said that whoever transcribed the credits for Bird's album gave Bird the credit for writing Donna Lee. For Miles, the error seemed to be no big deal.
Vektorer 1 year ago
@holygroove2 For what I understand Miles did right it but Bird released it first and mistakenly got credit for it in the linear notes. Just what I've heard though so I could be completely wrong.
grevejp44 1 month ago
I thought Jaco the was most exciting thing in jazz during his time......he should have worked with loads of other people like tania maria and similar souls.....amazingly gifted but he limited his options....like not playing with piano players out of respect for the weather report dude.......i mean cmon Jaco......i know there was alot of pressure on him to come up with shit.......but he should have arranged albums for other talents.......sad waste. But the work stands the test of time. The best.
dojufitz 1 year ago
chillbass.fr
nicolaiiandrievich1 1 year ago
Ah....the Jazz Police have to come and ruin everything ! One of the greatest composers / bassists / musicians of the last 50 years PERIOD....WRITE IT DOWN !
ruffian1868 1 year ago
This confuses me...why are people talking about the technical aspects of this song. I am a jazz fan but not a jazz snob. There is a back beat but his notes mean nothing to the overall composition. This is the type of music Miles used to play and made no structural sense. Its a collection of random jips and strums and jabs that are meaningless to the overall song. 9 years to learn WHAT?
1980Triumph 1 year ago
@1980Triumph
Didn't you read this comment? :
"When he said it took 9 years to learn "Donna Lee", he meant that it took 9 years to be at the level he was at when he recorded the album-version. It doesn't mean that he used 9 years to learn it. LOL. He started practicing it in 1973 and therefore only used two years to perfect it, as the sessions that produced his debut-album commenced in the fall of 1975."
Pastorius333 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@1980Triumph look up marcus miller's commentary on donna lee, you'll understand why this song is fucking genius, its not just random notes he goes through different variations of complex jazz scales and meshes them perfectly, if you can't hear the genius then you're not listening right . . .. CUNT
Commanderc001 1 year ago 8
This has been flagged as spam show
@Commanderc001
Miller is a total ass when it comes to Jaco which is why I lose respect for him, he is just following the crowd in praise of Jaco....just like all the rock losers praise the shitty Beatles. Also your mom is a filthy loser you jerkoff!
1980Triumph 1 year ago
@1980Triumph
This is just one of dozens of disrespectful and downright mean comments you have spilled all over Jaco's videos. You have made your point long ago, now do everyone a favor and disappear!
Musicenthusiasm 1 year ago 2
@Commanderc001 - just ask people who don't understand to post videos of them playing this song. Then they'll try to pick up the bass and see why Jaco was the man. For me personally, it wasn't even about the scales. It was about his incredible facility - all the masters make things seem easy! AND I agree with Marcus. If you wanna talk about scales and etc, Jaco had all of that too!
holygroove2 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheSupremebass 1 year ago
@1980Triumph
I felt that way when I just started listening to jazz. I thought some of it was good, but I thought some of those were just pulling notes aout of the air. Even when I heard this tune at first I felt that way. But as I learned more and more jazz, my opinion changed dramatically. I assure you that nothing is played randomly here. His playing over the changes is fluid and excellent. You just gotta listen to the notes that arn't being played. It's all about harmonic structure.
ZappaFan101 1 year ago
@1980Triumph youre dumb
basshumpinyoface6 1 year ago
@1980Triumph In order to understand what he's doing, you just have to know the chords from which he's deriving the notes of his solo (not to mention the head). If you listen to any band play this tune so you get the chords in your head and you go back and listen to this, you'll gain a new appreciation for Jaco's sheer genius. SO many substitutions, and I love the transposition to E for the recap. of the head.
metallicarules53 1 year ago
No one is playing the supporting chords underneath his solo, so unless you are very familiar with the chord changes of the song it sounds random.
Trust me. It is not random.
He is outlining the chord changes masterfully and making new melodies based on their harmonic structure.
CrandMackerel 1 year ago 38
@CrandMackerel Finally, someone who understands music and theory, not just some tard who thinks it's random crap. Thank you for making the world realize that there are people like us who understand music and it's not all stupid jibber jabber :)
TheSupremebass 1 year ago
@TheSupremebass Smoke Pot!! Woohoo
dlechler1 11 months ago
@CrandMackerel it sounds random to people uneducated in theory because it is an atonal piece with a chromatic approach, as you said though, he is outlining chords overlapped with scale patterns. it just lacks a key and an organized progression of those outlined chords
VocalTest666 11 months ago
@CrandMackerel
Totally! I remember long ago when I did think this was random. Then I studied jazz a bit more and realized what he was doing. Its jawdropping
ZappaFan101 6 months ago
@CrandMackerel This solo does not sound random at all to me but still if Jaco decided to play his solo like this he should have made sure that everyone understands where all his phrases and licks are coming from.
KaRmOdAgUrU 5 months ago
Jaco Pastorius did not anticipate YouTube?
valeo626 3 months ago
@CrandMackerel I concur. He sure do play that their bass real good.
3234718 1 month ago
@CrandMackerel haha that lick over the 2-5 at :47 is exactly what you are speaking of.
jaronee 1 month ago
That run just after 1:39 - right before he plays the head in a different key is awesome...
ZappaFan101 1 year ago
wow lol, people r worried about who originally wrote it, its jaco's version of the tune.
im not sure if it still is but back in the 90's musicians institute used this as one of the final exams for the BIT bachelor course
PINGPONGDYNASTY 1 year ago
Don Alias,the percussionist on this track, stated on several occasions that Donna Lee was recorded in one take, Bob Bobbing has also confirmed
this... also saying that, while Jaco had a good idea how to approach his solos, he NEVER wrote down or had the solo entirely worked-out prior to recording. This, from people who were actually there at the time. It is reasonable to say that there is some improvisation there.
twtho272727 1 year ago
most definitely a miles davis tune.
blah148 1 year ago
how? just.... how?
Timok67 1 year ago
If anyone should be wondering the opening head is
"Donna Lee", but the solo that follows is completely
and utterly Jaco's. It consists purely of his lines and
ideas, and is NOT transcribed.
Pastorius333 1 year ago 17
@Pastorius333 Do you really think someone can come up with his "own lines" when improvising to be bop music?
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76
Sure, Jaco came up with many licks that
were unique to his playing.
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333 ha ha yeah right ;)
Fjord76 1 year ago
An amazing solo by Jaco. Yes, this version was written out- it was not improvised. To be fair though, this was for his album. It was recorded in a studio, and time in a studio costs a lot. He came in with a plan - which is understandable. He never played the same solo twice though at his shows. You can only capture jazz so well on an album. The best jazz is the stuff you hear live at clubs and venues. Hearing jazz in person is much better than any jazz album.
ZappaFan101 1 year ago
@ZappaFan101 jaco couldn't read music, genius
rasjvon 1 year ago
@rasjvon
He couldn't read music initially, but he learned how
to read and write music when he was 21.....
How much do you really know about Jaco?? Clearly
very little. And it's hard to arrange and compose all the
charts Jaco did without being able to read....
You could have made an effort in educating yourself
more about Jaco and his life before using demeaning
characteristics of others and make yourself look like
a fool.
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@rasjvon
What do you mean? Jaco could read music, check out his Modern Electric Bass instructional. He really had to sit down and learn to read music especially when he was with weather report And even if he didn't read music at the time his album came out, he still knew what he was playing - it wasn't improvised. It may have not been written or transcribed, but it was planned out. Do you really think the self proclaimed worlds greatest bassist could not read music? Come on now, get serious...
ZappaFan101 1 year ago
It might've been rehearsed but the bottom line is that it was his first album, so he probably wanted to showcase his technical ability instead of his improvisational skills
strongone5000 1 year ago
great!!! Thanks for uploang!
ykhappy 1 year ago
this must be a very hard song to master..WOW! JAco kicks the living shit out of any bassist to this day
METALLMAN1000 1 year ago
Comment removed
Fjord76 1 year ago 2
@Fjord76 I agree, but it's still a cover.
SoldatoPalladiLard0 1 year ago 4
@Fjord76 Yes the head is a cover but the solo ain't...
Fjord76 1 year ago
who cares if it's totally improvised? tell me that groove merchant by thad jones mel lewis big band isn't jazz! i disagree that jazz MUST be improvised. by that logic when bands play the heads of tunes that is not jazz. the jazz only starts in the solos. oh and if they use any licks then that is not jazz. or scales.
SilverJ4 1 year ago
@SilverJ4 you obviously don't understand what i'm talking about;i'm not speaking about heads(i'm not that stupid) but thanks anyway for your useless insight
Fjord76 1 year ago
No problem - hope it helped!
SilverJ4 1 year ago
@Fjord76 wrong. listen to charlie parker play it......jaco not jazz....wrong
rasjvon 1 year ago
@rasjvon Why wasn't he improvising over the changes when he played it live?
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76 and when did he play it live? in the studio?
rasjvon 1 year ago
@rasjvon Check the Word of Mouth live in Montreal version and you'll hear he can't play the changes
Fjord76 1 year ago
Comment removed
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333 " I met him in 79-80 and hung out with him off and on until he passed away....Once he said, "You think you're bad 'cause you can improvise!!" I came to find out that a lot of his stuff wasn't improvised. When I was a kid I thought it was and was banging my brains trying to figure how to improvise such perfectly constructed and flawlessly executed solos.It turns out that even Jaco couldn't improvise those perfect solos - he used to compose the solos then perform them..." Marcus M.
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76
Just because he may have prepared his studio-solos
doesn't mean he couldn't improvise well live. I have tons
of live, bootleg recordings that prove that he could! You clearly
haven't heard much of his live solos that were played on an
inspired day. Besides, most of the youtube clips are from
uninspired days.
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333 I haven't waited after YouTube to exist to start searchin for Jaco bootlegs (i started listening to his music back in '89 or '90) Improvising over Invitation, Dolphin Dance or I shot the sheriff has nothing to do with be bop chord changes-wise. Do you really think someone can have several ways of approaching about improvisation? like one for studio, one for the live gigs...come on.
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76
First of all, I didn't say that he improvised
in the studio, can't you read?
And besides, I was talking about RARE bootlegs.
Those you mentioned are widely available.
The ones I'm talking about I've acquired through
trading. I could send you some download-links if you like.
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333 ok why not? but if it's like All the things you are with Metheny, don't bother...it's still impressive to hear what he did on bass solo-wise but nothing compared to great horn, piano or double bass players (i'm not gonna start droppin names, it'd be too long) Peace out.
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76
"You think you're bad 'cause you can improvise!!"
Him saying so doesn't have to imply that he
couldn't improvise himself! If you said to
a musician "you think you're a good guitarist
because you can shred!", doesn't mean that
you can't shred yourself. Get real.
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333 Yeah right! Get a life.
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76
It's time I send you those mp3's...
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Fjord76
Get a life yourself. I was just utilizing a little
common sense.
Pastorius333 1 year ago
Comment removed
ShadowRogue1990 1 year ago
@Fjord76 I slightly disagree. While improvisation is certainly a key part in what makes jazz wonderful, it is not what defines it as a genera. Jazz is most keenly defined from others by the chord progressions and, slightly, by the syncopation/swing note style.
But really, i should save my breath and just say that you should probably brush up on your jazz a little bit. It's not improvised, because it is an almost perfect cover of the main melody.
Oh and it was written by MILES DAVIS! -sigh-
ShadowRogue1990 1 year ago
@ShadowRogue1990
Interesting debate - I gotta jump in. I feel jazz is more of an art form than a style of music. When I hear the word 'jazz' I think of things such as being in the moment and improve, not so much what defines jazz (chord changes, tune heads). Jazz is the most free form of music (even more so, free jazz, but I won't get into that). To define jazz is to limit it. I know that isn't what your saying, but if something is planned out that sounds like jazz, then its 'fake jazz'
ZappaFan101 1 year ago
@ZappaFan101
I feel jazz is all about playing in the moment - and a great jazz musician never plays the same thing twice. That is where the 'art' of jazz comes into play. I respect your opinion, but I just don't agree with it.
ZappaFan101 1 year ago
@ZappaFan101 That would be like saying "big band" jazz is fake because the vast majority of big band is, indeed, pre-written, with only short sections -written in- specifically for improv, rather than the whole thing being improvised over chord progressions. Where as smaller bands, to the point of simply being a combo group, would be "real" jazz?
ShadowRogue1990 1 year ago
@ShadowRogue1990
In a sense, yes. The idea of something being written down and rehearsed takes away from the element of art that jazz has. I love big band but I just dont see it on the same level as a quartet of be boppers or something similar. Big bands and swing were huge back in the day because the music had much more structure than other forms. It was catchy and accessible to most people who dont know anything about jazz because its freedom was limited. I feel it's pop music from the 30s.
ZappaFan101 1 year ago
@ZappaFan101
And then Parker and the boppers came onto the scene. At the time, most swing fans didn't get what the hell they were trying to do. They failed to see the art of improv
ZappaFan101 1 year ago
@ZappaFan101 Seems more like by trying to say that jazz is free, you are actually limiting it. Jazz encompasses all styles, and to say one form is better than another belittles the over all picture.
ShadowRogue1990 1 year ago
@ShadowRogue1990
But I am not arguing the styles of jazz, I am arguing the element of improv. the thing that makes jazz. Why do you think jazz is known as an artform? There are plenty of genres out there - so why aren't they referred to as artforms of music? Jazz has chords like every other genre, so it has to be the approach to the music (the interpretation in the moment) itself.
ZappaFan101 1 year ago
@ZappaFan101 Alright, and now you're belittling other forms of music. Whether its what you meant or not, you very clearly implied that jazz is an art, where as, for example, Tchaikovsky's work is not art. And then saying that you aren't arguing that there are different styles of jazz, but still pushing that improve "makes" jazz. Whew. You're starting to run around in circles! I give up, you win. =] No sense in chasing our tails all night.
ShadowRogue1990 1 year ago
I'm not downing ANY music - I love it all. You are failing to see the difference in jazz and just about any other genere, Jazz is considered an artform because the art itself is in the interpretation of the tune. Yes, all genres are an artform, but jazz takes it to a whole other level. A real jazz musician has to know all the ins and outs of their instrument, where as any other genre does not require that as strongly. Getting it down and playing in the moment is what makes jazz..
ZappaFan101 1 year ago 2
@ShadowRogue1990 don't need to "brush up my jazz" to know that there ain't any "true" jazz player who ever recorded a written solo. Besides, I don't care if the main melody is perfectly covered since I was talking about the solo (which begins at 0:34 if you don't hear the difference)...and i know Miles claimed that he wrote this:I read his autobiography many times (and the fisrt time, you were hardly born btw)
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76 So you're saying that Jaco wasn't a true jazz artist? Now -that- is funny. And congratulations on reading the biography! Do you know the details directly contributing to the mix up of the two artist? Just curious, for your knowledge seems to be vast.
ShadowRogue1990 1 year ago
@ShadowRogue1990 your sarcasm shows that i hurt your feelings...Ok,here we go: I wrote "true" jazz player with " " cause it don't mean a thing, it's obvious that Jaco's music can't be related to only one genre and it's also obvious that his ego made him write this solo so that his first album's tune would highly impress the music world...all I was saying is that when i first heard this circa '89, my jaw dropped and i've been very disapointed when i found out it was improvised, that's all...
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76 oops! I meant WASN'T improvised of course
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76
Part 1:
I'd understand if you didn't regard Jaco as a "true" jazz-artist if he wrote "all" his recorded solos, but the fact is that he didn't. For example, his solo on "Punk Jazz" was improvised, and all his solos on "Bright Size Life". As for his supposedly composed solos, his early years-collegues in Flordia can attest to the fact that when he was evolving as a musician in the late 1960's early 1970's, he was a cliche-free and unparallelled improviser on the electric bass...
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333 you can't compare Donna Lee' s solo with Punk Jazz's or we definately aren't speaking of the same thing. I'm prettty sure Bright size life solo's improvised but once again, chord changes-wise it's not be bop music ...
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76
Part 2: ...In fact, some went as far as saying that he was the best improviser they had seen on any instrument. They DID however say that he DID have a plan for "Donna Lee" and some of his other studio-solos, but it was never written out note for note like some people believe. The plan was very sketched, and from what I've heard he didn't even stick completely to them! He loved to come up with ideas on the spot. You also have to consider that he had practiced "Donna Lee" in...
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333 I don't care if Jaco's early years collegues went saying he was the best improviser THEY had ever seen and once again, I'm only speaking of improvisation over multiple chord changes at fast tempo (be bop music)...
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76
Part 3: ...various settings for almost two years before recording it ( with different solos every time of course) and had played through the changes so many times that he had probably figured out what passages would astound most people who listened to his album. And I seriously doubt that Pat Metheny, one of the greatest jazz guitarists of all time, would gig with Jaco on and off for 4 years if he felt he wasn't a brilliant improvisor. Same goes for Ira Sullivan and Alex Darqui.
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333 Pat Metheny's music at the time he played with Jaco was influenced by hard-bop or free jazz (hence the Ornette Coleman cover on Bright Size Life) not be bop and have a ever heard Alex Darqui improvise? he almost sound like a drunk Herbie Hancock...
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76
My comments were directed at the post where you stated that Jaco wasn't a "true" jazz artist, not whether or not he played be-bop. Seems like you totally missed my point. And have you ever heard Joe Diorio and Ira Sullivan? Both master be-boppers and early years collegues of Jaco who definitely know what they are talking about. You seem so desperate in trying to downplay Jaco's repuation that it's on the verge of being strange. And Alex Darqui is well respected globally.
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333 it's just that i don't believe in this 'best bass player ever' thing, that's all. If you know Jaco's history so well, you should know that he had never claimed to be a 'true' jazz artist (hence Punk Jazz for instance) Sullivan & Dorio,be bop masters? yeah right! i'm done arguing with you.No hard feelings though,peace out
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76
Part 1:
Ok, I respect your opinion. Let me send you some mp3's of Ira Sullivan though..the man was an unparallelled multi-instrumentalist, and many people regard him as the "white Charlie Parker". He can play over bebop-changes just as fast if not faster than Mr.Parker. Amd If a "true jazz artist is someone who plays exclusively jazz, then Jaco doesn't fit that description. However, just the fact that he loved other styles as well doesn't diminish his importance as a soloist.....
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Fjord76
In a more traditional jazz-context. It's true that he usually played more modern jazz when visited that genre. Are you saying that anything post Coltrane can't be classified as "true" jazz? Even Joe Zawinul despised that Weather Report was labeled as fusion, same with Jaco. I'm glad that Jaco couldn't care less about jazz-snobs whose definition of "true" jazz was so conservative and narrow. That's one of the things that made him so great, he was never afraid to go in the....
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333
Part 3:....opposite direction of what might have been labeled as jazz at the time. "Donna Lee" was even dismissed as "showboating" by many of the critics at the time. He pioneered the electric bass with countless new methods of playing, he had unprecedented facility, he popularized the electric bass and made it the instrument it is today, he played jazz, funk, soul, R&B, samba, rock and even reggae!
And he was equally versatile when it came to his brilliant composing....
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Fjord76
Part 4: ..and at the same time he was a respected arranger. No one could touch him at the time, and in my opinion no one do even today. Many can cop his speed, but his choice of notes, flawless emtional expression on the fretless with perfect intonation, feeling, sould and charismatic persona remains unbeaten. Ask any professional bassist. I'm sure even Jeff Berlin feels the same( even though he probably won't admit it). Jaco was an innovator, and he played better than anyone in...
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333
a song with a vocalist context( have you heard his bass-lines with Joni Mitchell?), so called "fusion" and he was one of the funkiest bassists you're ever gonna hear. And of course he was also a respected jazz-musician, whether you like it or not...all these factors are why Jaco constantly wins polls for best bassist ever and is therefore probably the most objective answer you can get to who's entitled to that "position". I'm sorry that you're so disappointed over fact that...
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333 you seem to forget that i know Jaco's recordings at least as well as you...so yes I've heard his work with Joni mitchell...hundreds of times! but you know what's my fav track off Heijira? Amelia...one of the most beautiful song i've ever heard and there's no Jaco on it
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76
Part 6: ..his "Donna Lee" solo wasn't completely improvised. But like I mentioned earlier, it wasn't written out note for note like some people love to think. He had a very basic plan, what you might call a sketch. He used some simple guidelines, but still partly improvised because he never followed it completely. Same with "Havona". As far as I know, these two tracks( and "(Used To Be A) Cha-Cha)" are the only ones he did this with. SO, he DIDN'T write those three note for note.
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333 Havona's solo is an edit of several takes...what i'm tryin to say is that solos(Donna Lee, Cha Cha & Havona) are impossible to improvise...Punk Jazz or Port of Entry are improvised and i LOVE the energy but it's not the same on an harmonic level...please tell me we're done now :(
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76
We're almost done....
I didn't doubt that you had heard him with Joni( although it may have sounded like it). I'm not trying to make this into a contest( and I'm not trying to be arrogant), but I wouldn't say that you know Jaco "at least as well as I do". You don't have all the bootlegs that I have.( The tracks I sent you don't even make up a fraction of all the Jaco/Weather Report/Joni Mitchell bootlegs that I have). Anyway, I have a few live tracks of "Donna Lee".....
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Pastorius333
...That I haven't sent you yet. If even those can't make you change your opinion about his playing, the I guess nothing will :( But let me assure you that I'm not attempting to offend you or anything, it's just that in my opinion Jaco was an excellent improvisor and I can't comprehend that other people can't think the same. That says something about how great I think he is...Have you heard his solo on"History" from the Live In NYC-series. It's not bebop, but his phrasing...
Pastorius333 1 year ago
@Fjord76 You don't know what you're talking about.
TheLonelyDwarf 1 year ago
@TheLonelyDwarf
if you say so...actually i don't care.
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76 What about the harmonics? the vibrator in certain segments of the solo? the arrangement? Whatever was originally written, the parts I just mentioned weren't. They are very few bassist in the history of Jazz with a sound as distinct as Jaco Pastorius, and he's in full flight on this track. It certainly sounds like his interpretation of this famous Bird piece, and it definitely sounds like Jazz to me!
timages13 1 year ago
@timages13 I've never questioned Jaco's distinct sound (i'm not deaf...yet) but if improvising for you comes down to adding an harmonic chord and vibrato here and there,well we definately aren't speaking of the same thing (which is obvious when you mention arrangement) If he really was the killer bebop improviser we can hear on Donna Lee, why can't we find any other recordings of these particular skills? his illness or lack of practice has nothing to do with it...
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76 He's paying homage to that genre, I don't think it was ever his intention to do any more bebop then that. He stays true to the original adding his own stylistic flair because it's a homage to that music. Pastorius came from an r&b background, playing funk in southern Florida as a teenager. It was only later that he learned how to read music. I think Donna Lee, with the simple arrangement he uses was a great choice and a perfect vehicle to showcase his distinct sound, and yes virtuosity.
timages13 1 year ago
@timages13 I also think that his arrangement choice was a perfect vehicle to showcase his own voice and virtuosity but it wasn't the point of my comment.
One of Jaco's fave quotes was "it ain't braggin if you can back it up" and after hearing several live renditions of Donna Lee, well...he couldn't.
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76 I didn't know that, honestly I've never heard Donna Lee live by Jaco, I'll give it a listen. About live performances, I usually prefer the recorded versions of most music. I've heard great bands live and they rarely are as good as their recordings; the exception being the Wayne Shorter Quartet recently, amazing. Jaco to his credit brought something exciting to the bass, playing the horn part of Donna Lee with just a conga and that fat sound for his opening track at 24 yrs old...wow.
timages13 1 year ago
@timages13
1. I fully agree with you on the wayne shorter 4tet, saw 'em twice in 2001&2003 and...Wow!!!
2. About this version of Donna Lee, i've that Jaco wrote this solo so that his first album's tune would highly impress the music world...well it seemed that it worked out pretty well (and on me too ;)
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76 I'm glad you liked Wayne Shorter Quartet, Wayne just knocks me out! He's still breaking new ground when most musicians his age are either done or repeating themselves, what an inspiration! And his band! at every chair killer players. The night I saw them Danilo Perez and Brian Blades just went off, I was speechless. I don't think there's a better Jazz band going right now. What a career for Wayne! playing and writing for Miles, Weather Report...and everything in between, incredible.
timages13 1 year ago
@timages13 I'm always amazed at how ,in a 50 years career that spans from his gig with Art Blakey to his 4tet, Wayne never ceased to raise the bar! To me as well, his 4tet is the best around (Branford's is very close behind though) I know very well and love every step of his musical path;do you happen to know Highlife from '95? one of my fav of his album
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76 I know all Wayne's music, I have to say without question he's my favorite musician. My older brother took my to see him and Weather Report when I was a kid at the Beacon here in NYC. I remember him standing there, eyes closed most of the time, just his horn, and he was to these ears anyway the best musician on that stage. And it's been that way ever since. I just saw him recently at Carnegie Hall for Herbie Hancock's birthday, what a disappointment! Hancock playing John Lennon songs!
timages13 1 year ago
@timages13 You know, older jazzmen used to play songs from musicals that were popular at the time so i guess it's quite right for herbie to play Lennon's songs if he feels like to but to each his own ;) When I first saw Wayne back in '91, it was with a all-stars band featuring Herbie, Stanley & Omar Hakim and to be honest, i hadn't been much moved by this performance...
Fjord76 1 year ago
@timages13 What irritated me the most about that concert was on stage that night was: Ron Carter, Jack DeJonette, Wayne, and Herbie Hancock. Given the age of these stars, and the likelihood that I'll ever see them play together again is close to never. And to play the kind of music they played that night was as close to a musical sacrilege as I've ever experienced. We're talking Jazz Royalty here, the three remaining members of the great second quintet. I'll never go to a Hancock concert again!
timages13 1 year ago
@timages13 yeah i hear ya but i'm sure that when he did Headhunters or Rock it later, many of his long time fans must have felt very disapointed too...same with Miles and his Silent Way/Bitches brew/Around the Corner era...
Fjord76 1 year ago
@Fjord76 Good Point, I forget what earlier era fans of Miles must have thought when they first heard In A Silent Way, (one of my all time favorite albums). If you cherished music like Sketches of Spain and ESP it had to be difficult, if not impossible to embrace. Not so with Wayne, wherever he's gone it seems like another fantastic revelation of his enormous talent...to these ears anyway.
timages13 1 year ago
@Fjord76
I completely disagree. In jazz, there is almost ALWAYS a repeated melody in a song, very rarely only improv chart. One might say jazz combos are mostly improv, which i agree. however, there is usually a repeated melody somewhere in there, so people can recognize the song.
It would also be completely unfair to say jazz combos are all the make-up of jazz.
Oh, and the dim. 5th chord at the end was pretty awesome. just sayin.
iamnotaleapord 1 year ago
Comment removed
Fjord76 1 year ago
Jasper is learning this one, will post his version one day.
BassPhat 1 year ago
Back in late 76, people were talking to me [amateur bassist], about this new wonder bass star from America. Stan Clarke was the epitome of bass class at the time. It took me 2 years to finally hear Jaco [no internet back then] and this was the first thing I heard. Needless to say I was gobsmacked. No-one [in my circle - or wider] had ever reckoned with that level of mastery and the complex grasp of harmony etc. He was every bit as good as they said and of course, countless times better.
martinjp1958 1 year ago
The master the creator the best he still lives on and is remebered
METALLMAN1000 1 year ago
the 2 people that don't like this, are a pair of sweaty testicles
diamonddust22 1 year ago 2
Yes, Bird wrote Donna Lee. It is based upon the old Tune, "Back Home In Alabama." Many of the great bop tunes were written over old show tunes. There are about 20 alone written over "I've Got Rhythm." That is why knowing "Rhythm Changes" is a part of ever Jazz players vocabulary.
robschuh 1 year ago
@robschuh The name of the original tune is "Back home again in Indiana", or just "Indiana"; written by Ballard MacDonald and James Hanley in 1917, if I'm not wrong.
OscarPetersonFan 1 year ago
I always thought Bird wrote that and I looked it up and he recorded it first and held the copyright, but it was Mile's first recorded comp...Jaco takes it to a new level on the Bass...
adsicks 1 year ago
Donna Lee is by Charlie Parker
ChokingTrio 1 year ago 3
@ChokingTrio that's what I thought but it seems it's just a common misunderstanding.
SoldatoPalladiLard0 1 year ago 2
@SoldatoPalladiLard0 Miles wrote in Parker's quintet, and on the first LP it was recorded in Parker's quintet under Parker's name. Parker noted this and changed it for the future, but it's still commonly credited to Bird.
GassyMaskz 1 year ago
Interestingly, it was incorrectly attributed to Parker on the original Jaco album.
TheJacoArmy 1 year ago
it's miles' tune