As much as I love the 911, the Cayman is far superior by design... You just can't make the Cayman better than the iconic flagship of Porsche, the 911. It would destroy all that is good in the world. This video is ridiculous, last time I checked there were like 19 different versions of the 911 and like 3 or 4 cayman models. The test is bogus because of the vast differences in power and rubber. If you had a GT3 cayman you'd see how much better it handled.
SHUT UP GRANDPA, my grandma drives faster than you. You got no business doing car reviews on Porsche cars, go back to telling your WW2 or Pearl Harbor stories
The YouTube experts strike again! Parents shouldn't let their kids on the computer. I mean I'd love to know how a Cayman has ANY advantages over a GT3. In any shape or form. Take that Cayman and shove it, that GT3 out runs anything. Drive one. You'll see. Handling wise, it'll make a GTR cry.
this is just a dumb comparison, why would you bring a gt3 vs a cayman. obviously the gt3 . no point of having all the better tech and higher price if it can't beat its younger
I have a 2012 Cayman R with PDK, I don't need Don Sherman to tell me that a car cost twice is better than mine. Skidpad is only 0.01 g better for $60,000 more. I am glad I bought the Cayman R instead of the GT3!!
THEN GO KICK THE GT3s ASS BIG STYLE ON THE TRACK......Then go buy a small apartment in the South of France with the spare money I didn't spend on the over priced (but nice) GT3 ;-)
OK OK . I have a problem with this test too. The GT3 has a significant amount of R&D money spent on it to be the best that Porsche can produce. And rightly so, its a great car. However to compare it with the Cayman R which is a fantastic affordable (ish) drivers track car is ridiculous. If it was my money id buy the Cayman R. Go to TPC racing and spend $10,000 US on their 550 hp turbo conversion. Buy Bilstein PS9s and about $2000 of new race semi slick tiers (that the GT3 has) (see next)
If the Cayman R had the SAME engine as the GT3, then it would be beating it b/c of its 50:50 wt distribution. Not only that but the Cayman will give the already overpriced 911 a run for its money. That's why Porsche needs to DITCH the 911 and hitch the Cayman to compete with the Corvette ZR1, Nissan GTR, and Viper ACR.
@unknownunknowns Its a rough subject that, allowing the cayman to run wild and stick a 3.6, 3.8 or even a turbo (maybe not bc of the weight gain) and allow it to eclipse the 911 When the cayman first came out they wouldnt give it an LSD but they since have. The 911 must still exist tho bc the 911 will always be timeless classic
@stormthorgerson A 'timeless classic' for how long, I wonder? It seems everytime the 911 is being compared to a much lesser priced car, with comparable performance, the reviewer doesn't seem to say, "The 911 is so much better". They might comment about the awkwardness of it at a corner but I notice they aren't that MUCH impressed with it which make me question about it.
@unknownunknowns It will remain as it is now, as the 991 has a projected 14 years it needs to occupy and it will no doubt be a hellava car, and a different species than the Cayman. eventually the Cayman will be laying down stupid lap times. and the introduction of new models will slim down the 911 niche but I would take a 991 C4S w/ 7sp. man. over any Panamera coupe or Cayman and i believe that a sizable number of people would to.
like the other reviewer mentioned...why wouldn't you use the same tires!!?? The GT3 has MichSport Cup tires and the Cayman had Bridgestones...and it didn't do well on the skid pad. DUH!!! What a bunch of morons!
I don't think this was ever a debate, Other than the 911 what sports car is rear engined and obviously porsche are not going to make a car that is better than their flagship 911, it's a dumb ass comparison
After watching the vid and reading the comments, I see most missed one thing... HOW CLOSE BOTH CARS ARE. I don't even like porsche but test proved alot for a weekend racer on a BUDGET that german cars...(-.-).....weak.
is the cayman really mid engine? I thought the Carrera GT and 918 were the only mid-engine. What is the advantage of RR anyways? Its past the wheels so it doesnt give extra traction, its so far back it adds extra drag, less weight on front wheels means more understeer, disruptive power/weight ratio even with the transmission closer to the front. because the video lacked an actual comparison. MR > RR
@XenoRacing RR will give it more traction (more weight on the drive wheels). IN the 911s case there is no understeer, bc it is a porsche, power to weight is not affected but the weight distribution is. The fact that porsche has had since 1964 to work on the 911 gives it the ability to overcome its unusual layout. Also the 914 was midengined, the cayman's platformmate boxster is, 1964 904 carrera gts was a street legal racecar was mr, as well as the 550
@stormthorgerson But I've heard that 911s could also experience understeer, and in which case, the driver has to take his foot off the throttle a bit to counteract the situation.
What a useless comparison! One look into the pricing list and you would know, that the Cayman wasn't designed to be as good as it could be or to be better than a 911!
If you're gonna compare those two layouts then do the test with similar weight and power cars. Because in this test GT3 had every advantage, 100bhp more, wider tires(better grip, traction).
I think C&D has had a complete changeover of it's Online Production staff. They rarely post any videos lately, and when they do, they're mostly just plain bad. If they keep this up, I'm gonna be unsubscribing, too. :(
Not a bad comparison per se but I wonder what it would be if both cars had the same Michelin Pilot Sport rubber. My suspicion would be that the Cayman R would have won several of the tests. If the Cayman had similar horsepower, it could have possibly won the comparo outright.
this isnt a far test thou cuz the gt3 is a higher grade porsche so it has stiffer suspension and probly different tires. gt3 is more of a race ready car n the caymen is more of everyday car cuz it has more things u dont need for racing, so to me it wasnt a far test
If you notice when the cars spinout, the 911 was quicker to oversteer and the cayman had a very smooth drift. Plus all the great super cars are mid engined. They should've compared the 911 to a similarly powered mid engine car on the same tires.
This guy is the worst car reviewer ever. Like comparing a corvette and a camaro, like everyone is going to be blown away with the results of this amazing test.
This piss me off. Whats the TIRES!? YOU USE THE SAME TIRES?! Did you replace tires after every test? No!
NULL AND VOID. GT3 comes with cup tires, idiots.
you even say so like its nothing in ur article: "In comparison to the 911’s sticky Michelin Pilot Sport Cup radials, the Cayman’s Bridgestone Potenza RE050A rubber has a narrower section width and a much less aggressive construction"
You guys never do the slalom test with a large boat trailer. I want to see boat trailer slalom tests. The magazine shoule be called: Car and Driver and Boat Trailer.
This isn't proven anything!! If the suspension setup was identical I would be more inclined to except these theories. I think with the right setup, and a huge rear wing the resulted would differ. The GT3 is too bare bones bruiser to compare the rather sedate Cayman to it.
(2/2) It's that Porsche is just trying to stay true to their heritage (and keeping a large chunk of their customer base happy) by keeping the 911 above the Cayman in terms of overall dynamic ability. Just imagine what Porsche could do if one day they said "Screw all this rear-engined business." And got to work on their new mid-engined 458/LP560-4/V-8 Vantage/etc/etc-beater. Ferrari, Aston, Lamborghini, Lotus, you name it - they'd all be done for.
(1/2) He's talking about these two cars as if there's a group of engineers at Porsche called "Team Cayman" & another group of engineers called ''Team 911." And these two groups are continuously working independent of each other to make the car that is their team's namesake better than that of the other team's. However this, obviously, isn't true It's not like Porsche honestly thinks that rear-engined cars are better than mid-engined cars in every way.
When everthing (tyres, weight, front & rear downforce, etc) is identical between two cars aside from engine placement. The car with it's engine in the middle will win. That's just physics. I think it's pretty safe to assume that Porsche, in the formulation of the idea of the Cayman R, made perfectly sure that this car wouldn't be able to beat out a 997 GT3 in tests exactly like these. The Cayman R could still have more aggressive aero & MUCH better tyres.
You f'king can't be serious. This comparo is a 300-pound stack of bollocks. This is like doing a comparison between the GT3 and the Carerra GT and declaring the mid-engined car superior, which would be at least as obvious as comparing the editors of this magazine to Steven Hawking and declaring Hawking to be intellectually superior.
Here's some constructive criticism for C/D. Please find someone who can narrate the tests in a more engaging manner. This man was really ticking me off because he was monotone, spoke awkwardly, and just seemed boring.
suspension setup aren't exactly the same in both car, and I bet the electronics are still on. WTF! Then essentially is a Test of 2 different models not 2 different layout!
The problem with rear engine cars will show when you go over the edge. What happens? can you recover with counter steer (opposite lock) like many front and mid engine cars? Or do the laws of physics take over and make it unrecoverable because the engine is in the rear? Usless tests
To all 4 people that replied to me: Handling is not about slaloms and skid pans, it's about a feel and how well the car can be controlled. So yes, to throw all their engineering down the toilet on something Corvettes and Mustangs can do is an insult.
It's still good to know the limits of the various Porsche models. I'd still take the Cayman R as its cheaper and nearly as capable, most drivers would never see 50% of what their car can do so I'd take a Cayman or Cayman S over the 911. It's nice the know the cars don't easily spin out even at around 100kph (63mph)
It was just straight numbers. Both cars have excellent handling, but there was no real discussion of maneuverability/agility or driving behavior. Of course, you could have an hour long show on that, couldn't you? Almost sounds like a NOVA/Motorweek special.
Besides such a layout comparo should never be done with cars from the same manufacturer. The Cayman is always going to come in after the 911. Also it should include all four typical layouts, FR, FMR, RMR, and RR.
that is not handling all those tests just mean the gt3 steering is quicker. there best handling car and america thing, that's handling. so they know what handling is why don't they do it?
I think you all missed the point of the test..... there just trying to show that the GT3 is faster..... im sure there's a reason Porsche decided to prefect the rear engine cars...
porsche fans always say this " the gtr has automatic gearbox , extreme computer management that control this and that , real drivers drive porsche that less computer aids onboard " lol . the onl porsche lacking is a screen that show the cpu controls , u have no idea what these cars handles when all the aids off .
this test is ridiculous and an insult to intelligence... to try and compare a Porsche GT3 & Cayman R to settle the debate of mid versus rear. The cars are so different its not even funny. Suspension geometry, tires, weight differences in the wheels, width of the rear tires, total weight differences of the two cars, suspension set up have a huge bearing on handling and grip test. These are complete basics of handling that anyone would know. These test are null and void and quite frankly stupid.
If you really want to see which car is the best I suggest: 1. Turn the PSM on the 911 off or better put this system into the cayman. You're not gonna believe it. 911 has one of the most complicated stability system. They worked very hard on the electronics - on rear engine layout? - not so much. 2. Push the Porsche management to work harder on the Cayman, because now they are doing anything to avoid situation where Cayman beat the 911. And they know it is much better platform to improve.
Asshole below me what do u mean by that statement???? If your talkn bout Ryan Dunn I will come through your screen and slap the shit outta you!!!! I've done it b4 ain't no thing to do it again! Ryan Dunn R.I.P. homie
That has to be the most stupid test, what a crap piece of journalism..... Horsepower well that was a given, tires well the tires are twice the price on the GT3.....
good video for those of us who "don't know everything" like you gentlemen. I have never seen Top gear give me the spin out speed.. that was cool info. Peace.
Hey let's test the Carerra GT against the GT3! That would be another really valid mid engine vs rear engine test we could draw meaningful conclusions from! Oh wait, no, that would be just as worthless as this.
Why not a Caymen R vs Carera or Carera S? That would at least be a bit closer in both price and hp. The GT3 is ultralight and meant to fight Ferraris. Its a purpose built track car. This test shows nothing about engine placement given the huge performance and $ gap between these cars. This is inane.
This was an interesting review. Who cares about comparing the cars this guy actually taught me what all those tests are for. Now I know and am more informed. Plus its always nice to see two top tier porsche's go at it.
I suppose that the speed of the steering rack makes no difference in test 4...
And the engine in the GT3 makes no difference in test 2 and 3...
Test 1 is about grip, not handling (the 911 has wider tires)...
If rear engined was better handling then F1 cars would be rear engined. Rear engine gives better traction which Porsche, in the 911, try and optimize to minimize track times. Besides, do you think Porsche would make a Cayman faster than a GT3? I could've predicted the result before hand...
Tires...Tires...Tires people the GT3 came with Michellin Pilot Sport Cup thats a competion tires the Cayman dont. the Cayman is a better balance car but to do this fear both cars has to be with the same tires.
God forbid Porsche actually design a Cayman that is better than the 911. the problem with this test is that you test two Porsche cars and have failed to point out the marketing differences of each car.
Tires? Engines? Everything except for where the engine is? This is no test of Rear vs Mid engine. This is only a test of 911 GT3 vs Cayman R. Rename the video.
*Insert generic comment on losing respect for C/D without pointing out anything actually wrong with the tests performed or the conclusion made about the 2 cars*
WHAT A GREAT REVIEW!!!! I hope next they compare a C6 Corvette to a ZR1 and tell me which one is faster because they both kinda look the same and are made by the same company!!!
But on a serious note C/D, were you really wondering if Porsche's mid-range sports car would beat out the track version of their fastest car just because the engine placement is different? I don't have access to either of these cars, but in less than 5 minutes of comparing specs I could tell you that the GT3 is faster..
@venom5809 haha yeah, i cannot beleive people give a shit he died, he drove drunk, was doing over 100 and killed his fucking friend. rip ryan? na, burn in hell douchebag.
Wait, you guys tried to minimize the power-to-weight difference and then scored the cars based on average speed (instead of lap time)... what? I'm no expert, but something is off here. Furthermore, the cars like GT3 were designed by Porsche to outperform all the other cars in the portfolio! Of course the GT3 will deliver better numbers to a car 'below' it in the portfolio! What a silly test.This had very little to do with where the engine was placed.
omg what a suprise. the cheeper, less powerful car with the less advanced suspension lost. obviously a fuckin gt3 will blow a cayman out of the water. porche put an extremely percise suspension in the gt3s these days to cope with the rear engine. great job old man, great job
this is retarded, if they wanna do a real comparison between engine configurations use a comparable car to the gt3 such as an r8, gallardo, or the 458 italia.
Give them both the same engine the Cayman R will own. Farnbacher Loles Cayman GTR proved this by putting a 911 S engine in the Cayman. The Engineers at Farnbacher Loles have said Porsche has purposely underpowered the Cayman
As much as I love the 911, the Cayman is far superior by design... You just can't make the Cayman better than the iconic flagship of Porsche, the 911. It would destroy all that is good in the world. This video is ridiculous, last time I checked there were like 19 different versions of the 911 and like 3 or 4 cayman models. The test is bogus because of the vast differences in power and rubber. If you had a GT3 cayman you'd see how much better it handled.
conrad0102 1 month ago
This video is a favorite on Kuwait
galenblake821 1 month ago
The GT3 looks excellent in that color.
Buttnut105 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This vid is a favorite on Vaiaku village, Funafuti province
josepena1127 1 month ago
SHUT UP GRANDPA, my grandma drives faster than you. You got no business doing car reviews on Porsche cars, go back to telling your WW2 or Pearl Harbor stories
U8berGTI 2 months ago
Agreed.. Put the same tires on each and the 911 gt3 goes down
shahulhusman 2 months ago
if the cayman r had a 911 engine....it would beat almost anything out there.
LovingPoontang69 2 months ago
All the cayman R needs are better tires to beat the gt3
shahulhusman 2 months ago
I believe Porsche is the only car company in the world to offer front mid and rear engine cars....
DONNYBOYY28 3 months ago
The YouTube experts strike again! Parents shouldn't let their kids on the computer. I mean I'd love to know how a Cayman has ANY advantages over a GT3. In any shape or form. Take that Cayman and shove it, that GT3 out runs anything. Drive one. You'll see. Handling wise, it'll make a GTR cry.
IPGAuto 3 months ago
I'm sorry... but as an autocrosser... those slaloms REALLY need to tighten up.
Rockit181 3 months ago
WHAT A USELESS TEST
cmstacker111 3 months ago
stupid test.... give cars SAME power, SAME wheels and tyres, SAME weight then test them....
michalmr2 4 months ago
this is just a dumb comparison, why would you bring a gt3 vs a cayman. obviously the gt3 . no point of having all the better tech and higher price if it can't beat its younger
brother
Carshouston 4 months ago
The GT3 is a beast, the Cayman doesn't compare at all LOL.
ScoobyDriver11 4 months ago
The 911 has 1 inch wider tires. And they are more race inspired tires than the one offered on the Cayman R. Cayman R handles better.
ProjectM97 4 months ago
none of that of is handling
sponge713 5 months ago
Damn calm the fuck down.. Tgey are both great cars but the 911 has history behind it so your also buyin a historic icon...
TheSaikou96 5 months ago
I have a 2012 Cayman R with PDK, I don't need Don Sherman to tell me that a car cost twice is better than mine. Skidpad is only 0.01 g better for $60,000 more. I am glad I bought the Cayman R instead of the GT3!!
fctsui57 5 months ago
for 185k it better beat a car in every way that costs 66k
ugashaun 5 months ago
THEN GO KICK THE GT3s ASS BIG STYLE ON THE TRACK......Then go buy a small apartment in the South of France with the spare money I didn't spend on the over priced (but nice) GT3 ;-)
BraycoMicronic 5 months ago
OK OK . I have a problem with this test too. The GT3 has a significant amount of R&D money spent on it to be the best that Porsche can produce. And rightly so, its a great car. However to compare it with the Cayman R which is a fantastic affordable (ish) drivers track car is ridiculous. If it was my money id buy the Cayman R. Go to TPC racing and spend $10,000 US on their 550 hp turbo conversion. Buy Bilstein PS9s and about $2000 of new race semi slick tiers (that the GT3 has) (see next)
BraycoMicronic 5 months ago
I see totally different tires on both cars. Worthless test.
patricksavalle 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
why is this old FUCK reviewing these cars...he cant even talk...
8MunchenBayern8 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Not a valid comparison.
channelrafy 6 months ago
so the more expensive 911 won?..hmm what a shocker
guitaristwagner 6 months ago
Great comparison.
myjanuary151987 6 months ago
ok, nice theory, but fails to take into account SO many other factors, other than mid vs rear engine placement
Wheelbase, ,Track, Weight, Center of Gravity, Rubber width, aspect ration, sidewall height and quality of rubber, spring rates, castor/camber/toe in.
ALL of these things affect the end result.
Good premise, bad execution
buzzbbird 6 months ago 2
Now Lets Compare Prices. O I can get two cayman R's? Im sold
fergieworld1222 6 months ago
Surprise surprise the car that cost more, has more down force, and R compound tires won. Add that money to the Cayman R and then it will win..
IXGQ4LifeXI 7 months ago
If the Cayman R had the SAME engine as the GT3, then it would be beating it b/c of its 50:50 wt distribution. Not only that but the Cayman will give the already overpriced 911 a run for its money. That's why Porsche needs to DITCH the 911 and hitch the Cayman to compete with the Corvette ZR1, Nissan GTR, and Viper ACR.
unknownunknowns 7 months ago
@unknownunknowns Its a rough subject that, allowing the cayman to run wild and stick a 3.6, 3.8 or even a turbo (maybe not bc of the weight gain) and allow it to eclipse the 911 When the cayman first came out they wouldnt give it an LSD but they since have. The 911 must still exist tho bc the 911 will always be timeless classic
stormthorgerson 7 months ago
@stormthorgerson A 'timeless classic' for how long, I wonder? It seems everytime the 911 is being compared to a much lesser priced car, with comparable performance, the reviewer doesn't seem to say, "The 911 is so much better". They might comment about the awkwardness of it at a corner but I notice they aren't that MUCH impressed with it which make me question about it.
unknownunknowns 4 months ago
@unknownunknowns It will remain as it is now, as the 991 has a projected 14 years it needs to occupy and it will no doubt be a hellava car, and a different species than the Cayman. eventually the Cayman will be laying down stupid lap times. and the introduction of new models will slim down the 911 niche but I would take a 991 C4S w/ 7sp. man. over any Panamera coupe or Cayman and i believe that a sizable number of people would to.
stormthorgerson 4 months ago
BOOO!
mars213 7 months ago
like the other reviewer mentioned...why wouldn't you use the same tires!!?? The GT3 has MichSport Cup tires and the Cayman had Bridgestones...and it didn't do well on the skid pad. DUH!!! What a bunch of morons!
puyrm 7 months ago
Better comparison would be 911 basic vs Cayman R....
SHINOBI10910 7 months ago 2
Personally id rather keep my E36 M3 and keep the extra cash from rapairs, inssurance, etc..... and use it to fund my projects even more.
mrdragking13 7 months ago
I don't think this was ever a debate, Other than the 911 what sports car is rear engined and obviously porsche are not going to make a car that is better than their flagship 911, it's a dumb ass comparison
ojdavies147 7 months ago 2
You can't compare those two. For god sake they are from the same company!!
Abdullah19910 7 months ago
"the test" & "that likes"
Speedmccool385bitch 7 months ago
After watching the vid and reading the comments, I see most missed one thing... HOW CLOSE BOTH CARS ARE. I don't even like porsche but test proved alot for a weekend racer on a BUDGET that german cars...(-.-).....weak.
Speedmccool385bitch 7 months ago
is the cayman really mid engine? I thought the Carrera GT and 918 were the only mid-engine. What is the advantage of RR anyways? Its past the wheels so it doesnt give extra traction, its so far back it adds extra drag, less weight on front wheels means more understeer, disruptive power/weight ratio even with the transmission closer to the front. because the video lacked an actual comparison. MR > RR
XenoRacing 7 months ago
@XenoRacing RR will give it more traction (more weight on the drive wheels). IN the 911s case there is no understeer, bc it is a porsche, power to weight is not affected but the weight distribution is. The fact that porsche has had since 1964 to work on the 911 gives it the ability to overcome its unusual layout. Also the 914 was midengined, the cayman's platformmate boxster is, 1964 904 carrera gts was a street legal racecar was mr, as well as the 550
stormthorgerson 7 months ago
@stormthorgerson But I've heard that 911s could also experience understeer, and in which case, the driver has to take his foot off the throttle a bit to counteract the situation.
TheCenturion1 6 months ago
What a wasted effort! Try cars with the SAME tires and similar power to weight ratios, like Cayman S vs standard Carrera with a passenger in it!
pstoppani 7 months ago
Btw: why do still make this infamous "name that exhaust" shit and than deactivate the comments??? Makes absolutely no sense!!!
TheCruizer 7 months ago
What a useless comparison! One look into the pricing list and you would know, that the Cayman wasn't designed to be as good as it could be or to be better than a 911!
TheCruizer 7 months ago
The old man is like "Holy hell Germans do make one helluva car" That GT3 is amazing!
IPGAuto 7 months ago
Porsche won't be letting the Cayman outperform a 911 unless they can make more money by doing so.
AtomicRooster190 7 months ago
omg. The Cayman isn't a bus. Get closer to those cones!
AtomicRooster190 7 months ago
useless review
fadyberlon 7 months ago
If you're gonna compare those two layouts then do the test with similar weight and power cars. Because in this test GT3 had every advantage, 100bhp more, wider tires(better grip, traction).
Mishaz1997 7 months ago 36
stupid stupid stupid
cardude1992 7 months ago
wtf is this? STUPID tests, old driver, strange comparison.
Turbochargesi 7 months ago
Great article, great topic, great cars, lousy video.
arena2101 7 months ago
@maeranni you are right I'm doing the same thing!!!
cesarhidalgo23 8 months ago
I think C&D has had a complete changeover of it's Online Production staff. They rarely post any videos lately, and when they do, they're mostly just plain bad. If they keep this up, I'm gonna be unsubscribing, too. :(
tayl0rd 8 months ago
Are they just running out of stuff to do?
iPROFITDON 8 months ago
Unsubscribed. Rubbish videos.
maeranni 8 months ago
Why not make it fair and use the same tires? Obviously the GT3 has superior rubber. Not a fare test at all. The cayman is far superior by design.
Texcell2 8 months ago 26
@Texcell2 not really
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ViperVenom 8 months ago
obviously midengined is better, you have much better balance, look at the audi r8
AbraKadavr8 8 months ago
not an apples to apples comparison
dukmahsik 8 months ago 2
Completely worthless. Whats the point? If you spend twice as much you get a faster car? Duh!
luv2mx 8 months ago
Not a bad comparison per se but I wonder what it would be if both cars had the same Michelin Pilot Sport rubber. My suspicion would be that the Cayman R would have won several of the tests. If the Cayman had similar horsepower, it could have possibly won the comparo outright.
JMacZ911 8 months ago
this isnt a far test thou cuz the gt3 is a higher grade porsche so it has stiffer suspension and probly different tires. gt3 is more of a race ready car n the caymen is more of everyday car cuz it has more things u dont need for racing, so to me it wasnt a far test
5656563 8 months ago
Doesn't matter how hot these cars are when father time has the personality of a rock.
Zenvomatic 8 months ago
That's not even a pilot, a real pilot would never to what he does at 2:50 ... please
HanRyo611 8 months ago
if the cayman r was wearing pilot cups this test would mean something, but since it isn't it doesn't
bigben57 8 months ago
I think most of this can be attributed to the tires, but I was still rooting for the GT3. It's the one I would want to own.
uglyguitarman 8 months ago
If you notice when the cars spinout, the 911 was quicker to oversteer and the cayman had a very smooth drift. Plus all the great super cars are mid engined. They should've compared the 911 to a similarly powered mid engine car on the same tires.
kalokn 8 months ago
Different suspension, chassis and tyres make this test pointless and very unfair.
zPlayZHD 8 months ago
This guy is the worst car reviewer ever. Like comparing a corvette and a camaro, like everyone is going to be blown away with the results of this amazing test.
thefatdic 8 months ago
This piss me off. Whats the TIRES!? YOU USE THE SAME TIRES?! Did you replace tires after every test? No!
NULL AND VOID. GT3 comes with cup tires, idiots.
you even say so like its nothing in ur article: "In comparison to the 911’s sticky Michelin Pilot Sport Cup radials, the Cayman’s Bridgestone Potenza RE050A rubber has a narrower section width and a much less aggressive construction"
drrdive 8 months ago
You guys never do the slalom test with a large boat trailer. I want to see boat trailer slalom tests. The magazine shoule be called: Car and Driver and Boat Trailer.
Come on !
seapeddler 8 months ago
this is like having a college track star race usain bolt..pointless test!
jithin15 8 months ago 2
So Porsche's niche engineering didn't fail. Well nosh!t.
vk45de 8 months ago
cayman was meant to be less then the gt3! obviously its not gonna be as good regardless of where the engine is!!!
ricksmiths10 8 months ago
This isn't proven anything!! If the suspension setup was identical I would be more inclined to except these theories. I think with the right setup, and a huge rear wing the resulted would differ. The GT3 is too bare bones bruiser to compare the rather sedate Cayman to it.
AdamsJoshua85 8 months ago
(2/2) It's that Porsche is just trying to stay true to their heritage (and keeping a large chunk of their customer base happy) by keeping the 911 above the Cayman in terms of overall dynamic ability. Just imagine what Porsche could do if one day they said "Screw all this rear-engined business." And got to work on their new mid-engined 458/LP560-4/V-8 Vantage/etc/etc-beater. Ferrari, Aston, Lamborghini, Lotus, you name it - they'd all be done for.
danthemanpatrick 8 months ago
(1/2) He's talking about these two cars as if there's a group of engineers at Porsche called "Team Cayman" & another group of engineers called ''Team 911." And these two groups are continuously working independent of each other to make the car that is their team's namesake better than that of the other team's. However this, obviously, isn't true It's not like Porsche honestly thinks that rear-engined cars are better than mid-engined cars in every way.
danthemanpatrick 8 months ago
When everthing (tyres, weight, front & rear downforce, etc) is identical between two cars aside from engine placement. The car with it's engine in the middle will win. That's just physics. I think it's pretty safe to assume that Porsche, in the formulation of the idea of the Cayman R, made perfectly sure that this car wouldn't be able to beat out a 997 GT3 in tests exactly like these. The Cayman R could still have more aggressive aero & MUCH better tyres.
danthemanpatrick 8 months ago 2
wtf... WTF?!
NicoretteMan 8 months ago
are you an idiot !? there is a horsepower, weight, suspension and size difference between the cars !!!!
aqeel3344 8 months ago
one point oh oh g, because 1g is not precise enough.
rpere087 8 months ago
Anyone else realize what an idiot this guy is for driving an automatic?
badboiz18 8 months ago
You f'king can't be serious. This comparo is a 300-pound stack of bollocks. This is like doing a comparison between the GT3 and the Carerra GT and declaring the mid-engined car superior, which would be at least as obvious as comparing the editors of this magazine to Steven Hawking and declaring Hawking to be intellectually superior.
DroverChicago 8 months ago
Here's some constructive criticism for C/D. Please find someone who can narrate the tests in a more engaging manner. This man was really ticking me off because he was monotone, spoke awkwardly, and just seemed boring.
losangelesrep 8 months ago
C'mon, Ryan Dunn went out like a G. Quit morning his his death, celebrate his life! He lived fast and he probably really loved his Porsche!
l80sman104 8 months ago
suspension setup aren't exactly the same in both car, and I bet the electronics are still on. WTF! Then essentially is a Test of 2 different models not 2 different layout!
fackyoudude 8 months ago
CORVETTE ZR1 FTW! NOTHING BEATS THE VETTE!
xXDaGamerHaterXx 8 months ago
The problem with rear engine cars will show when you go over the edge. What happens? can you recover with counter steer (opposite lock) like many front and mid engine cars? Or do the laws of physics take over and make it unrecoverable because the engine is in the rear? Usless tests
darius112 8 months ago
front
psychoclown420 8 months ago
To all 4 people that replied to me: Handling is not about slaloms and skid pans, it's about a feel and how well the car can be controlled. So yes, to throw all their engineering down the toilet on something Corvettes and Mustangs can do is an insult.
StuRaz 8 months ago
It's still good to know the limits of the various Porsche models. I'd still take the Cayman R as its cheaper and nearly as capable, most drivers would never see 50% of what their car can do so I'd take a Cayman or Cayman S over the 911. It's nice the know the cars don't easily spin out even at around 100kph (63mph)
videonaj 8 months ago
It was just straight numbers. Both cars have excellent handling, but there was no real discussion of maneuverability/agility or driving behavior. Of course, you could have an hour long show on that, couldn't you? Almost sounds like a NOVA/Motorweek special.
Besides such a layout comparo should never be done with cars from the same manufacturer. The Cayman is always going to come in after the 911. Also it should include all four typical layouts, FR, FMR, RMR, and RR.
DocWolph 8 months ago
This guy looks like the older version of Ross Rapoport.
5Qu1Z33r 8 months ago
WHAT A STUPID TEST!
mrbenyong 8 months ago 2
that is not handling all those tests just mean the gt3 steering is quicker. there best handling car and america thing, that's handling. so they know what handling is why don't they do it?
sponge713 8 months ago
this isn't mid-engine vs rear-engine, this is cayman vs 911 :/
the only thing this video proved is that porsche DID make the rear-engine layout pretty driveable. thats it.
wish we had a mid-engined 911 GT2 RS with a 4.0 rather than the 3.6, it would eat any "supercar" out there for breakfast
mrdarkknight 8 months ago
i dont get y every1 is complaining ... i still enjoyed the video, even though it proves nothing
spornicu 8 months ago
I think you all missed the point of the test..... there just trying to show that the GT3 is faster..... im sure there's a reason Porsche decided to prefect the rear engine cars...
rccrazy30 8 months ago
This is like comparing the honda fit's front engine to the s2k's mid front engine
walkman5410 8 months ago
porsche fans always say this " the gtr has automatic gearbox , extreme computer management that control this and that , real drivers drive porsche that less computer aids onboard " lol . the onl porsche lacking is a screen that show the cpu controls , u have no idea what these cars handles when all the aids off .
TheBigboySid 8 months ago
this test is ridiculous and an insult to intelligence... to try and compare a Porsche GT3 & Cayman R to settle the debate of mid versus rear. The cars are so different its not even funny. Suspension geometry, tires, weight differences in the wheels, width of the rear tires, total weight differences of the two cars, suspension set up have a huge bearing on handling and grip test. These are complete basics of handling that anyone would know. These test are null and void and quite frankly stupid.
robbyjai 8 months ago
If you really want to see which car is the best I suggest: 1. Turn the PSM on the 911 off or better put this system into the cayman. You're not gonna believe it. 911 has one of the most complicated stability system. They worked very hard on the electronics - on rear engine layout? - not so much. 2. Push the Porsche management to work harder on the Cayman, because now they are doing anything to avoid situation where Cayman beat the 911. And they know it is much better platform to improve.
slavoy11 8 months ago
Asshole below me what do u mean by that statement???? If your talkn bout Ryan Dunn I will come through your screen and slap the shit outta you!!!! I've done it b4 ain't no thing to do it again! Ryan Dunn R.I.P. homie
e40cally 8 months ago
If you have many cocktails and drive home in your GT3 at 140 mph, like Chuck Norris, you just might make the news
khunopie 8 months ago
That has to be the most stupid test, what a crap piece of journalism..... Horsepower well that was a given, tires well the tires are twice the price on the GT3.....
stephen5150 8 months ago
good video for those of us who "don't know everything" like you gentlemen. I have never seen Top gear give me the spin out speed.. that was cool info. Peace.
IMSTINKYBUTHAVESWAGG 8 months ago
the cayman for 2nd place out of 2
highflyer4 8 months ago
The comparison isn't really fair.
The GT3 has Michilin Pilot Sport Cup tires and the Cayman has ''normal'' tires.
Obviously the GT3 out grips the Cayman everywhere in the dry!
gixxxer1000 8 months ago
nice way to ruin some tires, and i already knew the gt3 was going to win, i love porsches but not this vid
canava2009 8 months ago
The exhaust note is orgasmic!
thuglife4ever721 8 months ago
Anyone else see this and think Ryan Dunn?
mean71cuda 8 months ago 2
lotsa tire smoke for ??
2stroketurbo 8 months ago
Ryan Dunn died in a GT3 Porsche 911.
98MAzdaMilleniaS 8 months ago
Hey let's test the Carerra GT against the GT3! That would be another really valid mid engine vs rear engine test we could draw meaningful conclusions from! Oh wait, no, that would be just as worthless as this.
ktonkin3 8 months ago 2
Why not a Caymen R vs Carera or Carera S? That would at least be a bit closer in both price and hp. The GT3 is ultralight and meant to fight Ferraris. Its a purpose built track car. This test shows nothing about engine placement given the huge performance and $ gap between these cars. This is inane.
ktonkin3 8 months ago 2
Front engine duh. Who cares about handling when you can't get enough power due to heat?
falchard 8 months ago
THIS WAS RETARDED ?
joewashington202 8 months ago 2
This was an interesting review. Who cares about comparing the cars this guy actually taught me what all those tests are for. Now I know and am more informed. Plus its always nice to see two top tier porsche's go at it.
adulby 8 months ago
Wow a GT3 beat out a Cayman!! I just pooped my pants! Thanks Car and Driver!
zfeldstein 8 months ago 33
I suppose that the speed of the steering rack makes no difference in test 4...
And the engine in the GT3 makes no difference in test 2 and 3...
Test 1 is about grip, not handling (the 911 has wider tires)...
If rear engined was better handling then F1 cars would be rear engined. Rear engine gives better traction which Porsche, in the 911, try and optimize to minimize track times. Besides, do you think Porsche would make a Cayman faster than a GT3? I could've predicted the result before hand...
rayrehem 8 months ago 3
porsches suck, i play forza, i know
Jace1283xmod 8 months ago
@Jace1283xmod o rly
KarlowBOI 8 months ago
Tires...Tires...Tires people the GT3 came with Michellin Pilot Sport Cup thats a competion tires the Cayman dont. the Cayman is a better balance car but to do this fear both cars has to be with the same tires.
arielv0 8 months ago
wow that porsche (gt3) sounds like a ferrari !!!
spartandy 8 months ago
you need to find someone older to do these tests.
aaarsix 8 months ago 37
I am falling asleep listening to him testing two of the most exciting cars in the market.
m3lightweight 8 months ago
@aaarsix i thought this guy was having a stroke when he was introducing the slalom
sigiii66 8 months ago
@aaarsix LMAO
AbraKadavr8 8 months ago
@venom5809 whether its better or not im not gonna argue with. however the 911 is porsche's gift to automotive engineering
shythead11030 8 months ago
God forbid Porsche actually design a Cayman that is better than the 911. the problem with this test is that you test two Porsche cars and have failed to point out the marketing differences of each car.
m1ste2tea 8 months ago
Tires? Engines? Everything except for where the engine is? This is no test of Rear vs Mid engine. This is only a test of 911 GT3 vs Cayman R. Rename the video.
tg72211 8 months ago 3
*Insert generic comment on losing respect for C/D without pointing out anything actually wrong with the tests performed or the conclusion made about the 2 cars*
chankfreng 8 months ago 4
C/D wouldnt get so much hate if the title was just Cayman R vs GT3
Mr1wd 8 months ago 3
excellent review.
HOBARTUS1 8 months ago
WHAT A GREAT REVIEW!!!! I hope next they compare a C6 Corvette to a ZR1 and tell me which one is faster because they both kinda look the same and are made by the same company!!!
But on a serious note C/D, were you really wondering if Porsche's mid-range sports car would beat out the track version of their fastest car just because the engine placement is different? I don't have access to either of these cars, but in less than 5 minutes of comparing specs I could tell you that the GT3 is faster..
gibbsthegunner 8 months ago
Cayman is clearly the better Porsche, has been from day one.
Put a 500hp engine in one and it will murder anything in the street.
Speaking of murder, perhaps Ryan Dunn should have watched this video before he decided to test the limits of his GT3.
R.I.P. poor GT3.
venom5809 8 months ago 2
@venom5809
I am assuming you're a Cayman owner. Would hate to buy a Porsche and can't even work on the engine myself.
CJAEY 8 months ago
@venom5809 haha yeah, i cannot beleive people give a shit he died, he drove drunk, was doing over 100 and killed his fucking friend. rip ryan? na, burn in hell douchebag.
amathew711 8 months ago 2
Hey Ryan Dunn died in one of those,
what? ...Too soon?
eliezeralvangallegos 8 months ago 4
And to think... I was considering subscribing to this magazine...
neostardust 8 months ago
Wait, you guys tried to minimize the power-to-weight difference and then scored the cars based on average speed (instead of lap time)... what? I'm no expert, but something is off here. Furthermore, the cars like GT3 were designed by Porsche to outperform all the other cars in the portfolio! Of course the GT3 will deliver better numbers to a car 'below' it in the portfolio! What a silly test.This had very little to do with where the engine was placed.
neostardust 8 months ago 2
man that 911 looks so much cooler....
vvysoc 8 months ago
how stupid is this ?
I love Porsche but C and D ? FAIL
Basti6814 8 months ago
47.9 mph at the Slalom for a Caymen R!!!!!
49.9 mph for the GT3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A trained monkey can do better than that WTF C&D????
thugangel662 8 months ago
@thugangel662 not a regular slalom, he specially said the ending cones were closing spaced to test braking. Hence, the reason the mph were lower...
Bahamuttiamat 8 months ago
Is it me or that just doesnt seem like A good comparison?? Would that be like mustang rwd vs focus fwd
cesarhidalgo23 8 months ago
GT3 has semi slick tires while the Cayman doesn't.
CJAEY 8 months ago
@CJAEY actually it is the opposite it is the caymen R compared to a normal GT3
InitialDAmine 8 months ago
@InitialDAmine
Um what? 0:01 The GT3 clearly has semi slicks
CJAEY 8 months ago 4
No suprise, porsche base their performance on price
boysvandehood 8 months ago
omg what a suprise. the cheeper, less powerful car with the less advanced suspension lost. obviously a fuckin gt3 will blow a cayman out of the water. porche put an extremely percise suspension in the gt3s these days to cope with the rear engine. great job old man, great job
btevoxboy6835 8 months ago
What an old wimp.
He can't even shift.
Where's the real reviewers at.
If the damn shit drives for you, I will not even look in it.
mistamontiel 8 months ago
@mistamontiel That comment doesn't mean much coming from someone who does his "driving" in video games..
Speedcorp 8 months ago
@Speedcorp Type your ass off.
mistamontiel 8 months ago
@mistamontiel hehehe...
Speedcorp 8 months ago
I think it's a good review, showcasing what the Cayman is capable of for much less cost than a GT3!
Turbulence654321 8 months ago
this is retarded, if they wanna do a real comparison between engine configurations use a comparable car to the gt3 such as an r8, gallardo, or the 458 italia.
qqqqqqqqqqqqqqq51 8 months ago
@qqqqqqqqqqqqqqq51 The R8 and gallardo are awd..What kind of comparison would that be?? Real men drive rear wheel drive.. hehe
Speedcorp 8 months ago
I never really had faith in C&D's intelligence, but this pretty much confirms it.
MKBoyardee 8 months ago
why would you even compare these two cars? the Gt3 is waaayy out of the cayman's league
randompplallaround77 8 months ago 2
Give them both the same engine the Cayman R will own. Farnbacher Loles Cayman GTR proved this by putting a 911 S engine in the Cayman. The Engineers at Farnbacher Loles have said Porsche has purposely underpowered the Cayman
The GT3 has better Aero
robm425 8 months ago
Not very scientific. I'm debating on calculations just to prove whether a heavy front end is better than a heavy rear end.
mikeb1444 8 months ago
who would buy the caymen r when the 911 is about the same price
1249mark 8 months ago
this was boring..
reign1222 8 months ago
i dont think the old fuck know how to push a car to its limits its not ur wifes cady its a porsche go out there and make someting of it
umoma1 8 months ago