Intelligent Design; Grasping for Straws in the New Millennium

[drumrnva]

Gahhh.....46:21. He had to go there, didn't he? Yuck.

[mchchicago78]

i enjoyed the topic and found the content useful but must say that the lecturer not only has one of the most annoying voices i've heard in a while but he also chooses to inflect his speech in really ear-screeching ways. too much for me. i stopped watching the vid bc of him

[twilightguardian]

@mchchicago78

So you're complaining about something that the guy has no control over? (the tone of his voice)

You're unbelievable.

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

Damn. Too bad you can barely hear the questions at the end,

[sk8teh14]

I'm sorry, I'm not going to watch all of this. There are plenty of better arguments for me to refute. What I did see was him saying that our design is flawed. What a load of crap. If we were absolutely perfect, would we ever die? The answer is no. God demonstrates in the Bible why we die, this is already established. So your argument goes against what I was never claiming. STRAWMAN my good sir, STRAWMAN!!

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

"God demonstrates in the Bible why we die, this is already established."

Where?

"If we were absolutely perfect, would we ever die?"

Its not about absolute perfection, its about the fact that humans can design a better jawbone than we have. If humans can do it, why cant god?

"I'm sorry, I'm not going to watch all of this."

Go figure.

"There are plenty of better arguments for me to refute."

How do you know? you never watched it...

[SadChristian]

"Where?"

In the first three chapters of the first book of the Bible. We don't need to be perfect. We deserve to die.

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

no, i mean show me the exact scriptures. Are you referring to the "fall of man"?

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

i want the exact verse that declares that there was no death before the fall of man.

And if you can find that, then you'll have a contradiction within the book of genesis.

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

Also, Perfect is a subjective term. I wouldn't consider living forever to be a perfection.

[SadChristian]

That's what the fall of man means - we've sinned and now we're dying. That's what it means when it says, "Don't eat of the fruit or you shall surely die." He didn't immediately die. It wasn't like poison. He was referring to our no longer eternal state.

I think perfection is objective. Living forever only seems imperfect b/c we have imperfect feelings such as boredom. But perfection takes away even boredom.

These are just my thoughts. Grace and peace,

SC

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

"He was referring to our no longer eternal state."

Then what was the purpose of the tree of life which granted everlasting life to whoever ate of it?

It seems remarkably redundant to have an immortality granting tree when everyone is already immortal.

again, perfection is subjective, because i don't consider boredom to be an imperfection. Its in the eye of the beholder.

[SadChristian]

Interesting, I'll have to research that. It could just be God created it because He already knew we would fall, or maybe Adam and Eve would have died anyway. I'll have to look into it.

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

if he already knew that they would fail, then that makes him malevolent, because he created the universe. Knowing the outcome gives you the ability to change it. If god chose not to change it, then that makes the Fall of Man of his own design.

And if adam and ever would have died anyway, then it again invalidates the concept of the Fall of Man.

BTW, go back and read it. Its very specific about the punishments of all parties involved. Adam, Eve, and the Snake (who ISN;T satan).

[SadChristian]

Hello speculation my old friend...

Anyway, I disagree. I don't think it extends that far. God created us, we chose to disobey. Just b/c God knew we would disobey doesn't make Him evil. It makes us evil since we have free will. Indeed, I think to not give us free will to choose (i.e. forced love) would be evil. So God gave us free will. A consequence of free will is the risk of the "Fall of Man."

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

CDK007 can articulate this better than I can:

watch?feature=channel_page&v=g­mjFVP6qkiI

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

Also, that's not one of the more compelling arguments for your god being evil.

[havocgate]

Thank you! Most Christians seem to have completely forgotten about the Tree of Life. God even says, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever."

[kidigus]

Also why, if god's creation was perfect, did man and woman see evil in their nudity? And why was god surprised to see that they had covered this evil that he knowingly created?

[sammara60]

@kidigus If you read the bible, you will see they did not until AFTER they had sinned.

[kidigus]

@sammara60 I understand that, my point is that after their eyes where opened and the could recognize good and evil, the first evil that registered was their own bodies. That always seemed strange to me; I would have expected them to be overwhelmed by all of the good around them, but they weren't.

[twilightguardian]

@sammara60 You mean after they learned. Children don't know about nudity being bad until their parents tell them it is. Yet the religious in particular say that nudity is an evil thing. So which is it? Should you bring your child up ignorant of the fact that nudity is something wrong (their bodies are icky! icky icky icky they should be ashamed!) or should they be TAUGHT of the evil that God apparently didn't want them to know?

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

"Don't eat of the fruit or you shall surely die." He didn't immediately die"

Actually you forgot three words. "On that day you shall surely die."

Which kind of flies in the face of your point, because they didn't die that day, so either god lied, or he got it wrong.

[SadChristian]

"Actually, you forgot three words..."

I think you're quoting the KJV. This version also says unicorns exist whereas modern translations render it, "Wild Ox."

Anyway, NLT: "If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die" and NIV: "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die"

[WeedGreenPowerRanger]

Yeah, i wasn't even going to go into the different translations, but i'm having trouble seeing how you're open minded enough to accept that different translations mean different things, yet you'll pick one and follow it.

incidentally, you're right about the translations. It really only appears in KJV.

BTW, i generally use the NIV, because it's a direct translation as opposed to several languages in between.

You'll find in that one that there is no "Fall of Satan" story. Its the king of Babylon.

[HexDemon666]

This guy is really on the line with being too cheesy...but I dig it. Good video.

[lukasz]

I think there are a lot deeper arguments for intelligent design, though I do believe its not a science at all. Wish he would substantiate his claims more as well (I know its hard in an hour as well too) but poking fun of people isn't the best way to make a point, Dawkins does it way to much for having unsubstantiated logic (complexity of God and so on), but I could go on and on about that. worth the watch none the less though.

[ThePhascolarctos]

Thanks for this upload. :)