Should pastors have to go through a certain amount of schooling?

[RighteousWorksMD]

Thank you Pastor Piper!

[thronewords1]

I'm in awe of your response. Well done, John!

[mrdoorknob22]

@Kakkapaja very well said. I need so much help its greatly frustrating because i never know what to ask for. I feel like Paul. I'm not turning to christ because something horrible has happened to me but i am turning because i realize i have done so many horrible things and it makes me feel like i shouldn't even tell people about Christ for fear of them finding out what i have done.

[mrdoorknob22]

True wisdom, knowledge, understanding all come from God. he is the ultimate teacher and instructor through his word and his counsel aka the holy spirit. through time we learn his word and the holy spirit directs us into all truths in his word. One of the greatest ways to be deceived quickly in this age is to try and learn truths according to how a school says to learn it. There is always error in teachings from men no matter how holy. The only teaching without error is a teaching from God.

[dandvc]

The way I would answer that question is to substitute the word "pastor" with doctor, attorney, dentist. I wouldn't dare let someone who had not attended dental school get even close to my gums. Would you? If you were being sued, would you hire someone to defend you who merely said God was calling him into the field of law? No, you would look for someone who had been to law school. I wouldn't let an uneducated "physcian" clip a toe nail off of me.

[prairiemark]

@dandvc I read on a libertarian web site that requiring Doctors and Nurses to be licensed actually INCREASED the cost of health care....hehe.

[Reapster04]

Charles Spurgeon is the Greatest Pastor (not named Jesus Christ) to ever live and he did not go to a seminary.

[tempemonkey2323]

Spoken like a true brainwashed xian... Schooling.... You don't need schooling, just listen to the bullshit floating around in your head, follow that, and say its god.... This might be a good explanation why god tells everyone to do contradictory and opposite things that conforms to the persons world view.... Hmmmmm!!!

Would you guys get over this mental disease so mankind can progress out of the stone age.... Thanks.

[sixfigures1]

No, I do not believe that it is the "only" way, but it is probably the best way. It seems as of late that everyone with a Bible thinks they have what it takes to be a pastor w/o being trained. Seminary gives some credibility to a persons claim. It certifies that one has sat under people of credibility who have trained them for the work of ministry. Seminary is a sacrafice, and there are some for whom it's less about their circumstances, and more about not wanting to make a sacrafice.

[911TruthSeeker91]

I agree and I disagree with your statement.

True. Theology and sound doctrine is key for young men who feel called to become pastors. sound doctrine is studied so that doctrinal errors and heresies which sneak into the church can be destroyed.

[sixfigures1]

911, You have missed my previous objections to superbeebs. I am for a local pastor (or missionary in your scenario) training people for the ministry, when there are limited options. Others have suggested that one start ministering, and get training later. This is an unbiblical concept.

[911TruthSeeker91]

However, your looking at the situation from one viewpoint.

Suppose there was a Muslim kid born in the Gaza strip who is homeless. he suddenly comes to a church and converts and the Spirit of GOD moves in him and he feels called to preach. He doesn't have any money or a decent education to go to seminary, but instead is discipled by a missionary or the local pastor. GOD works more profoundly on those who are not esteemed in the world.

[HypoTheLlamas]

The bible talks against new converts being elders in the church.

[911TruthSeeker91]

thats true. but i never mentioned elders in my post.

[HypoTheLlamas]

Well i dont know what you consider elder but I consider that anyone who is a leader in the church.

[911TruthSeeker91]

your right. An elder oversees the church as a whole. I think that it's the elders who decide whether a person is ready to become a minister in the church. However, not all people who preach on the pulpit are elders. A 20 yr old can't be an elder. Also there are certain requirements an elder needs. For example, he needs to be married to one wife and hospitable. otherwise, he's not qualified. There are some preachers who are not married, but aren't elders.

[HypoTheLlamas]

So do you believe that Jesus couldnt be an elder? Also, someone who doesnt lust in their heart and decides to remain single, even though he may be the most God fearing man in the congregation, shouldnt be allowed to be an elder?

[911TruthSeeker91]

now this is where you err brother/sister. Firstly, how could you compare the King of kings and the Chief Cornerstone of the church, to a weak, depraved and pitiful man of a righteous and holy God. Christ cannot be compared to a normal human like an elder of a church. Why would he be an elder when he is the Bridegroom and the church is his bride. I mean with all due respect, how could you ask such a question as the first one.

[911TruthSeeker91]

also, in regard to your second question.

1st timothy and titus are very explicit when describing the necessary requirments for an elder/overseer and a deacon. For both offices it clearly states that he must be married to one wife, among other requirements. I didn't say that, Paul did.

read specifically (if you haven't already)

1Timothy 3

Titus 1

[HypoTheLlamas]

Yes, It does say that he must be married to one wife. However, it does not say that he must be married. Jesus would rather us remain unmarried. So if a godly man is being faithful and has the strength to remain unmarried how could that discount him from being an elder?

[911TruthSeeker91]

What I'm trying to do is sticking to what the text says. We may have different ways of interpreting it sure, but I am trying to follow the text as it reads. In addition, I don't think Paul was an elder, but he was a missionary, travelling to places such as Greece, Rome and Spain. I may be wrong though, so please correct me with passages from Scripture that states otherwise.

[HypoTheLlamas]

Correct, and the text does not say that you have to be married. It simply gives guidelines for if you are married and if you do have children.

[HypoTheLlamas]

Also, Paul was an elder. However, he was single........

[911TruthSeeker91]

Now I don't forbid seminary, for it would be foolish for me to do so. I believe we in the west are blessed with certain tools that some others don't have that can help us learn more about what we believe and why we believe. It is needed for us in the west because it is available. But for those who are in areas such as the Gaza strip which provides very little, if any, info on Christian doctrine and history, then it isn't.

[sixfigures1]

Why wouldn't someone who seeks the office of pastor want to go to seminary? That's a better question.

[superbeebs23]

Maybe they want to remain connected to church within which God has called them to pastor instead of leaving it? Also, I went to seminary, but if we are going to make disciples to reach the world with the gospel and expect to see a church starting movement as a result we must use other methods than only seminaries. Did Timothy go to seminary? Did James in Jerusalem? Universities didn't even start til the middle ages! There are many reasons a church might not want or a pastor might not want

[sixfigures1]

Paul trains under Gamaliel, Paul gets divine revelation from God, Paul trains Timothy, Timothy is sent to Ephesus to be a pastor. If the disciples can sit under Jesus for 3 years, then a man desiring to lead God's people can go to seminary for that long.

[superbeebs23]

All of your examples are great examples of education. A pastor definately needs education, but just as Piper is saying in the video, that education can come from other places then seminaries, just like it did with Paul, Timothy, the 12 disciples, etc. Yes a man desiring to lead God's people can go to seminary for 3 years, but it isn't always so black and white. Many want to, but their church needs them immediately. They learn from distance education, mentorship, reading, personal study, etc.

[911TruthSeeker91]

I understand where your coming from but the argument you used which tries to compare the apostolic practices to us doesn't work. In the 1st century, christians were heavily persecuted so they didn't have the luxury of going to seminary. Also, they gave up all their money, ALL of it, and gave it to the church. why? because it couldn't help them, they were going to get killed anyway. today nobody gives all their money to the church, that doesnt mean its wrong.

[superbeebs23]

Good question. Most would love to go and want to - why? because they want to learn and be prepared for the ministry. But there are other educational options. Many outstanding pastors throughout history never went for "formal" education and were knowledgeable of the Word and fit for the ministry. There are circumstances which often prevent seminary training. One reason it may be bad for some is that a potential minister gets seperated from being a part of his church body when going away.

[sixfigures1]

Superbeebs, I don't think I understand your statement. Why would a person already be pastoring a church, if they have no training? Paul, Timothy, the disciples, were trained first, then they became shepards. This is in keeping with the qualifications of an overseer in that he should "not be a novice." I Tim 3:6

[superbeebs23]

Sorry for any confusion. Basically, I hear you saying that the only way to be trained for pastoral ministry is by going to seminary. I think there are other options available - mentorship, self-initiated biblical education, distance learning, etc. Do you think these are possibilities instead of seminary? "not be a novice" - I understand this to mean not being a recent/new convert. I don't think it means - "has been to seminary". A pastor needs to have knowledge of the Word. Not seminary.

[frank4poop]

they need schooling or else they sound like amateurs while giving sermons.

[xbutter03x]

@frank4poop Even an amateur being truly used by God is much more than the most profound speaker whom only claims to be.

[ryheck82]

@frank4poop That's just practise and maybe some speech lessons...

[shipleyshipster]

@frank4poop Trust in Jesus, trust in the Holy Spirit. Gospel preaching is not a product of public speaking classes, it's a product of Jesus. This idea that formal schooling is required is unbiblical, illogical, and antithetical to scripture. Jesus' chosen disciples were mainly uneducated high school dropout teenagers who learned from Jesus by example and experience. He didn't sit them down in a room and teach, he engaged them in real ministry right from the beginning.

[ilikezappa]

@shipleyshipster So ,when someone who is an internationally respected Professor of Biology tells you that the evidence for evolution is compelling ,you prefer to listen to a guy who didn`t finish high school and wouldn`t last the first day on an undergraduates science course ? Your choice fellah ,but it shouts volumes about your critical thinking skills.

[shipleyshipster]

@ilikezappa Except that's a false argument because we are talking about preachers and not scientists. It's different. Being a respected professor of Biology is "primarily" resulted from schooling, being a preacher is "primarily" resulted from character and personality traits paired with the Holy Spirit. They are completely different.

[ilikezappa]

@shipleyshipster That seems like a good enough reason to call them ,when they make claims like ,"The Earth is young" or "Evolution has no evidence" or "Noah`s Ark really happened" These are testable claims that you would only make if you were uneducated.

They should really include a caveat like, "There is no evidence for evolution ,but I only think that because I am a bit dim ,you should really ask a biologist ,not take me seriously" Wouldn`t that be fairer?

[shipleyshipster]

@ilikezappa You keep bringing up evolution and science as though you think it is a pastor's primary role to discuss those issues. It isn't. Of course things like science need to be learned and studied. But "preaching" does not, it's about who Jesus is and how we should respond to him. Again, let me repeat, evolution and science are irrelevant to the topic at hand. We're talking about Pastors "preaching" the "gospel", not science or evidence. 

[ilikezappa]

@shipleyshipster A pastors job is to promote the gospel ,which can not be defended as the truth ,because the scientific method is clearly at odds with the claims of the Bible.

It is an alternative to the truth. Mythology. Preaching about Noah`s Ark,or Adam and Eve from someone who doesn`t understand Biology is not an honourable profession.

[SuperBaLLeR305]

@frank4poop not true; you can grow up with common sense and manners and read your bible throughout your life you are capable of being a pastor ...

[ilikezappa]

@SuperBaLLeR305 I am sure that`s true , but dont be surprised if people say ,"you have no knowledge of the contrary evidence" if you are uneducated.

[SuperBaLLeR305]

@ilikezappa reason is if they see ur capable of doing the job the church allows u to do so gives u the official mark of being a pastor all if they see u got the knowledge ... he was normal guy dat went to church n became a pastor with no education just read bible 3-5x study it n loves it :)

[SuperBaLLeR305]

@frank4poop i know someone who didnt go to school and is a pastor and lived 15 years in cuba so you are wrong

[fruitofspirit]

Good answer!