Money, Greed, and God

[Texasjim2007]

I'm a retired US military veteran. My intent volunteering for the Gulf War was to hang a greedy mass murdering socialist dictator stealing food and oil money from the Iraqi people to build himself palaces and buy SCUDs from greedy socialist arms dealers in Russia and North Korea to shoot at Americans and people we have agreements with to help defend. My best friend was killed by an AK-47 defending Khe Sanh from military agression by greedy thieving socialists.

[Texasjim2007]

Socialists have never really understood the Freedom of Religion thing. They think it just means their own little special interest groups are free to make hate speeches about and legally regulate everybody else's behavior for their own self-interests but nobody else should have any equal right to treat them the same way.

[Texasjim2007]

It's easy to see why socialists would prefer to be judged by their self-proclaimed intentions than their actual actions but demonize the intentions of everybody who dares to disagree with them in the same fashion witch hunters accused people who had property they wanted to get their greedy hands on of witchcraft Socialism is all about greed for other people's property without doing anything to earn it.

[Texasjim2007]

Intentions may well be the primary matter of importance in how God judges us but God alone knows what everybody's intentions actually are. In the world we live let's recall, people are capable of hiding unethical intentions and pursue hidden agendas behind pius platitudes so we have to judge people by what we see them doing with our own eyes more than what they claim their intentions may be.

[Texasjim2007]

All of the seven deadly sins are merely venal sins not inherently self-destructive in themselves but merely capable of becoming self-destructive when they become a single-minded obsession ignoring everything else. "All things are lawful for me but all things are not beneficial for me. I am free to do all things but I will be dominated by nothing,"-Saint Paul the Apostle

[word4today1]

He should talk about why Americans are losing jobs to foreign manufacturers; surely that’s not capitalisms fault?

[Texasjim2007]

@word4today1 Americans are losing jobs to foreign manufacturers because it's cheaper for investors who want to make a proffit to manufacture in foreign countries with cheap labor closer to large markets for products we would have if we weren't killing ourselves with millions of abortions and restrictive immigration laws that were brainstorms of European socialists who prefer to invest their money in blond Aryan Sweden instead of multi-ethnic America since most of them are ex-Nazi collaborators

[word4today1]

He should talk about why Americans are losing jobs to foreign manufacturers; surely that’s not capitalisms fault?

[word4today1]

Must be a Republican this one. It does matter why people do things, and capitalism is greed. When wealthy firms speculate on food for example, food prices go up, and people in the third world starve, of course in the West we are minimally affected compared to the third world. The war in Iraq, where many of the private contracts went to companies in which politicians had financial interests. Of course he wouldn’t bite the hand that feeds him and bring up such cases. Wonder who his sponsor was?

[Texasjim2007]

@word4today1 It obviously doesn't matter to you why people do things you lying socialist hypocrite or you wouldn't be steriotyping the motives of all 50 million Republicans in socialist hate speeches no different than your fellow lying socialist hate monger Adolf Hitler made about Jews. We are all individuals before anything else. What is more greedier than you Socialists telling poor women to get abortions to save you child support for your pius socialist adulteries?

[rockontomm]

we just do things mostly for money , kinda sad really , take it away and there is a clearer view of balance

[gabehampton]

True compassion involved being in a loving community and being self-sustained and it requires no money. Money is an illusion. A distraction. If people were truly going on the lesson of Jesus then we would be living in villages building each others homes out of materials found in our surroundings , out of love for community and would be growing food for the community. In a loving environment, money is worthless and unneeded. This guy is being paid by corporations to confuse you.

[blueskyblackthunder]

Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) said, "If a son of Adam were to own a valley full of gold, he would desire to have two. Nothing can fill his mouth except the earth (of the grave). Allah turns with mercy to him who turns to Him in repentance"

[ijjesus]

Money is god ---- Makes perfect sense....

If he didnt had money --- he wouldnt believe in god.....

[theseeker2k5]

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[BfSkinnerPunk]

It is this kind of commentary that discredits CATO. To discuss an economic theory and then throw Unicorns, Zeus, talking snakes, or virgin births into the mix is, um, distracting to say the least. If one is to be taken seriously, you do not bow to mecca, wear a tin foil hat, or refer to a magic book. This guy's talk was downright painful. Like something you'd see on the 700club.

[Rico8458]

jews and wasp love god in the money. lol

[eyewitness043]

If christians plan to fix christianity with "capitolism" it should surprise no one how the same "christians" could set out to build a "free nation" through the use of kidnapped slaves.

Religeons have plenty of "justifacation" while maintianing very little "qualifacation" outside of their own so-called "gospel truth"

Sadly, most religeons today are turning more people away from God than towards God.

I can't help but notice most young athiests I meed are just disgruntled ex-christians.

[BrutusBlackest]

This man is a fool, and I do not say that lightly. He is a prime example of one who cannot make out the forest for the trees. He enunciates and he's wearing an expensive suit, so "we" ( the people) unconsciously lend him credence. Everything he says is a direct contradiction to what Jesus taught. Don't be piped away.

[JBeatty17]

It's hard to imagine Jesus being a fan of capitalism. This is the same guy who basically said the rich people don't have a chance in hell at making it in to heaven.

[CountArtha]

Jesus had a lot to say about people who were BEHOLDEN to their money, to the point where they loved wealth more than God and tried to split their loyalties between the two. There's nothing wrong with being WEALTHY as long as you're not GREEDY. In fact, the more wealth you have the more good you can do for others.

[JBeatty17]

Really? Those words seems to reflect your own reconciliation of capitalism with Jesus' teachings, rather than actual Scripture to back it up. I'd love for you to quote some actual scripture that validates your claim that Jesus believed that there was nothing wrong with being wealthy. But, just in case you need reminding: Matthew 19 "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven".

[BrutusBlackest]

@JBeatty17

I don't know how to feel...I'm happy that there is someone else who...knows? Understands? But I am sad that you are by yourself. Jesus spoke about money more than ANYthing else. He was very clear on what any believer's relationship with money should be,

"And he went into the temple. and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;

Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves." Luke 19:45

[rockinewok]

This is a pretty good video. I don't think that capitalism necessarily runs contrary to Christian beliefs. Freedom is the key to the subject. When we restrict freedom we see how the quality of existence tends to decline. God generally does not restrict individual freedom to choose. I agree with Mr. Richards that rational self interest is not the same as greed. Christians become proselytes out of rational self interest. Capitalism is a system that allows the possibility of success.

[mhatlie]

Not only religious people, but everyone with a little common sense thinks that motives matter. Maybe not in economic policy, but in many things, motives are everything. The only difference between self-defense and murder is motive.

[hanzo138]

This is very odd. When Jay Richards talks about ID I disagree with him 100%. When he talks about the free market I nearly agree 100% of the time. Crazy.

[IDquest]

Jay Richards is not only a good scientist, but apparently he's a good economist!

[Jaspian]

He's wrong about Greed. We automatically assume that Greed is bad because of the "deadly sins". But if you step back, virtually ALL human progress has been because of greed.

Take a look around your home. What DOESN'T have a profit motive attached to it? Would you still be alive today? If you ever had a serious infection or accident - probably not.

Fact is: if it weren't for greed, we'd still be living in caves.

Fact is: less than 1% of greed is outwardly malicious.

Greed really *is* good.

[GOPsithlord]

This was a solid reconciliation with moral interests in a religious view with the economic rule of the self-interest, particularly in the last three minutes in tackling the "greed myth".

[glennd7962]

Econ 101 for dummies - and our society needs it! It's so sad to me that most student of social science couldn't make the same distinctions, and yet they aspire to remake the world with their good intentions. My only gripe that this guy has to bring God into it at all. I can hold all of the economic beliefs he has and be an atheist quite comfortably.

[CountArtha]

This isn't for atheists; it's for Christians. He "has to bring God into it" because some Christians have trouble seeing capitalism as a good thing.

And what's wrong with bringing God into anything? Is He not allowed to influence our worldview any more?

[glennd7962]

Uhh, what's wrong with bringing God into anything is that there is no such thing as God. It's a pre-modern myth that stupid, lazy and scared people hide behind to quiet their existential angst.

I mean, unless you've got some proof that God exists? A proof based on reason, not faith, that is. I mean if you do, I'm all ears, but nobody has come up with any, ever, anywhere of any kind. Nothing, nada, bupkus and yet you speak as though I'm the one who believes in fairy tales.

[CountArtha]

There is no such proof - of course, if you'd asked me four hundred years ago for *proof* that human beings are made of atoms, I'd have given you the same answer.

[CountArtha]

It seems to me that a lot of so-called Freethinkers willfully impose an impossible burden of proof on theism. From what I've observed of the Universe, it's hard not to see an intelligence at work, and it makes a HELL of a lot more sense than an infinite regress of causation. Just because I don't have 100% proof of His existence doesn't mean I don't have a compelling reason to believe in God. Why are you so sure he *isn't* there? How is that any stronger than my own convictions?

[glennd7962]

It's not that you don't have "100% proof" - it's that you don't have any proof at all of the existence of God, nor do you even have a working hypothesis that can be tested or falsified. You've got nothing but tradition and myth. Of course, it's your prerogative to believe nonsense, but don't posit it as fact or truth. As for the existence of atoms, what is your point? That your 'cutting edge' theory of God is too advanced for us to understand? Laughing my fucking ass off!

[CountArtha]

Right back atcha.

[glennd7962]

So typical - you have no defense, but you pretend to. I have an idea, pray really hard that God will show you actual proof of "his" existence so you can use it to shut me up. Let me know how it goes, okay?

Really though, how does this God of yours work? I'm interested. Is he like a puppeteer? Or a magician? Or Santa Claus? Is he a designer who leaves no artifact of design (because that's the truth of evolution - NO DESIGN)?

If there is a God, why does he want us to worship him?

[CountArtha]

Like I said, you've got no more proof than I have. I've never seen a "working hypothesis that can be tested or falsified" from your side either, and it's intellectually dishonest to assume that theists always have the burden of proof. Anti-theists dismiss any evidence of God's existence using words like "nonsense" and "myth" when we have used all our powers of reason to arrive there. THAT is indefensible.

[glennd7962]

Do you realize that demanding I prove something that you claim exists is irrational? The burden lies with you, not me. This is basic logic. If you can't see this, you are truly brainwashed.

[CountArtha]

Then this is not a discussion. Good day, sir.

[97Wildfire]

@glennd7962 Maybe He wants a relationship with his creation. To have a meaningful relationship both parties have to have freewill. You have to be able to choose God. Otherwise we'd just be robots. Knowledge of God comes by experience. Seeking him in prayer, fellowship, worship, learning the teachings of Christ and applying them to your life. If you have never tried these things for yourself how did you fully discount the testimonies of those who have? believe or don't but be open minded.

[glennd7962]

How do you know I haven't tried these things? But that is besides the point. All I'm asking is that you produce a hypothesis and evidence for the existence of God that can be tested and falsified. In any other discussion GOVERNED BY REASON this would be considered normal. What's really funny is that many churches (including the RC) consider all attempts to "prove" the existence of God to be blasphemy, and in fact refer to folks like you as "apologists". That is the point of 'faith'.

[rationalwarrior]

Question. Can you truely have a relationship based on freewill with a being that created everything, knows everything past present and future, and has the power to change anything according to HIS will and gives you no tangible correspondence except by way of a "feeling" that he is there.

[BrutusBlackest]

@rationalwarrior

Who said the relationship is based on free will?

Question: Are you free, at anytime, to say what you wish?

[rationalwarrior]

It is based on freewill. You,according to the myth, have the freewill to accept or reject having a relationship with god. It is said that he will not force you. I have even heard christians assert that unless you have a relationship with him you can't even understand what the bible teaches or even hear him talk to your heart.  If you can't hear him or perceive him you can't have a relationship with him. He doesn't exists to you. Its not mutual.

[BrutusBlackest]

Just b/c "christians" proclaim it, does not make it "doctrine". I use quotations here b/c each of these terms mean very little in terms of God. They are labels and identifiers people use to separate some from the others. Now, in answer to your question, you can have a relationship with this sort of being, but it would have no precedent. Just b/c gods knows does not change the fact that you don't know. Things would still be new and undiscovered to you.

[rationalwarrior]

No offense but these "christians" would dispute that. And I would agree with them n this instance because your guess about what means what to god is as good as theirs. Who can truly say that they have intimate knowledge of how god feels or thinks. All humans have is books claiming to be divinely inspired. Unfortunately this claim is made by various groups with contradictory doctrines.

[BrutusBlackest]

Well, not really. God, as supreme, will be god, regardless as to what descriptors are applied to the entity. I don't believe in Christianity but I do however, believe in Christ. How so, you may ask. Very easily would be my answer. Jesus Christ is not a name, but rather a title, "The Anointed One". And here the debate necessarily diverges on a semantic tangent. But look, let me ask you, how in depth have you studied the five major religions of the world? If you have performed even (con't)

[rationalwarrior]

Once again, you are asserting things that none of us have any intimate knowledge of. "God" is a title that means different things to different people. You view god as supreme and in your view god is one. But to other faiths there are many gods. I have practiced the 3 of the five that you speak of at various points in my life so I am very familar with the overall dogma of each. But now I place none of those above any other god concept be it Yoruba ,Hindu whatever...

[BrutusBlackest]

@rationalwarrior

I don't think I'm the one making unfounded assertions. You say no one has any intimate knowledge of God. How can you verify that claim? In answer to your question, I believe that christ, the man Yeshua existed and performed the miracles.What is a myth? And as far as organism specific evolution, I simply mean, do you think evolution happens to a species all at once or to specific organisms at specific times? (con't)

[rationalwarrior]

I can verifiy it simply by using the tried and true tested description that religious people have always said about him/her/it. That god is a great mystery and that we mere humans cannot truely understand the mind of such a being because we have finite minds and believers say that god is infinite. A finite mind cannot comprehend the infinite. Attempting to do so is what leads people to say "Look at me I have a direct line to god and he told me etc. etc. etc....

[rationalwarrior]

From what I have seen all that does is get gullible people to believe every snake oil salesmen coming along that's talented enough with wordplay to sound convincing. History is full of examples of this. The myths I was talking about are the myraid of religious stories that mankind has concocted thruout history. They are all the same to me. I place none over the other.

[BrutusBlackest]

@rationalwarrior

You are searching for God and at the same time asserting that no one has ever experienced god. But by the nature of your quest you assert that it is possible to experience God...Tell me, what disillusioned you so that you have postponed your search to the point of disbelief?

[rationalwarrior]

No sir I am not searching for god...Im searching for truth. If that truth leads to the possibility that there is no god then so be it. If it leads to the possibility that there is one cool. As far as disillusionment from what I have seen religion has so far proven to me that it is a fraud. Once I realized that the only reason I believe in a god is because I was conditioned to do so since I was a child, I began to see that I had no evidence for that belief other then what I was told.

[rationalwarrior]

Lastly I think that the idea that people claim to know what a god's intention is dangerous because people are for the most part gullible and alot of the times we will believe what is comforting. Maleviolent people take advantage of this for power, money, and attention.

[BrutusBlackest]

@rationalwarrior

Ah, I think I begin to understand now. It is not God you have lost faith in, but rather man. And to that I can only say, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Too many men have falsely claimed exclusivity in regards to knowing God. It's disgusting. But, this is why the Christ came. To show man that we are in fact all Christ. We are all high priests after the order of Melchizedek. No one knows anymore about God than you. Why? Because, like you said, you are on a genuine search

[BrutusBlackest]

@rationalwarrior

for truth. That is the good news of the gospels, that simply, no man is above another, nor below. But corrupt powers and dark rulers do not want this truth to come out. I don't know you, but from the lucidity that I see in your posts, you seem to be rather intelligent, but more importantly, observant. Don't give up your search, when you find what you're looking for, you will be greatly rewarded. Peace.

[rationalwarrior]

Thanks its been great having a civil discourse with you. I don't see those happen to often on youtube these days.

[BrutusBlackest]

@rationalwarrior

Indeed, people these days don't seem to know how to politely disagree.

[SkyEFX]

Most people think true happiness is money and riches, but check this video out..

watch?v=mY6kTZtrVhI

COPY PAST THAT on your URL BAR.

[rationalwarrior]

It's all myth to me.  As far as evolution is concerned explain what you mean by organism specific.

[rationalwarrior]

Y'shua is not the only one to have been given the title of Moshiach. This title has been given to kings, priests, prophets. Now when you say you believe in christ does that mean that you believe that he existed or that you believe in all of the miraculous claims made about him?

[BrutusBlackest]

nominal overview, you realize that three of the five are primarily the same religion, with the exception of Christ, or rather who Christ was. What becomes evident very quickly is that each of these religions is very region specific. That being said, perhaps it is not God that changes, but rather peoples perception of god. Sort of like the way one looks at ones parents in youth, adolescence then adulthood. Do you believe evolution is species wide or organism specific?

[rationalwarrior]

Now my post was questioning the whole concept of freewill with an all-powerful and all-knowing being who's holding all of the cards. Who creates the situations, makes the rules and sets the punishment and reward. Who knows what you were going to do even before you were born. I maintain that you cannot have freewill if this being truely exist the way people make him out to be. To answer your question, no I am not free to say what I wish at anytime.

[BrutusBlackest]

I think a better question may have been what would be the point of such a relationship?

[rationalwarrior]

That would be a good question as well. I still maintain though that since god is holding all of the cards and effecting things around you by making situations happen that shape your reality, and having knowledge of these things, there is no freewill.

[Th3Wab3]

By "preacher" I mean kev..

[Th3Wab3]

In the ideal capitalist free market, what prevents monopolies or collusion from occuring? And if not do these practices promote the freedom of individual rights?

Pray tell preacher..

[CountArtha]

In a word, self-interest. A cartel usually doesn't last because there's always an outsider who's willing to undercut the colluding firms, and monopolies are VERY difficult to form in a true free market where regulation and corruption doesn't favor large firms over small ones. A monopolist becomes a monopolist by buying out his competitors, but each merger brings him a bigger and bigger percentage of market share,...

[CountArtha]

...so the last firm to be bought is the highest-priced. Each firm will hold out because it wants to be last, so the monopolist is forced constantly to bid up, making it very difficult to get an actual monopoly. In a regulated market, by contrast, it's rather easy to get a monopoly because regulations hurt small firms more than they do larger ones.

[AndyMH182]

Who is this guy? His deliverance is spectacular!

Awesome speech. 5/5

[jo232409]

The New Testament and the Old Testament both denounce Usury. Jesus does in his own words! Capitalism depends upon Usury for growth, otherwise, markets would go stagnate--predictable--exploit­able. However you look at it, Usury & Capitalism go hand in hand ----

In Islam, Usury is banned too - and they have a "capitalistic" society. Religion put aside, does anyone think their totalitarian government is any better off than ours, and not riding the waves of Western-Usury to their fullest?

[oiuoiu988]

youre an idiot...

[bullpcp]

I have tried to make such distinctions between self-interest and greed in the past and I'm glad Jay Richards has so eloquently differentiated them. You can be a humanist and benefit humanity most be being a a true free market capitalist, as opposed to state sponsored corporatist, and without any special effort or conscious intentions, at least in a properly set up free market system, you can maximize the common good. This is an example of a particularly benevolent unintended consequence.

[obmax1212]

I love the Cato Institute, but it's irritating that they are trying to justify capitalism on a "it's moral because in reality it helps everyone" grounds. Capitalism is moral because it is based on rational self-interest and the respect of individual rights, not because in practical terms it helps the most people.

[kev3d]

How is respecting individual rights not helping everyone? The ideal free market extends to everyone. In other words, capitalism is moral because it helps everyone because it respects individual rights, which everyone ought to have." It may sound a little circular, but its completely true.

[obmax1212]

Respecting individual rights does have the effect of helping everyone, I don't dispute that. But the fact that it happens to help everyone is not what makes capitalism moral. Capitalism is moral because it allows individuals to act with self-interest (with greed, as most people would say). The morality of capitalism has nothing to do with helping others, and that is what this person is arguing. .

[032125]

Religious libertarians are stuck in this terrible position of trying to correct the long held philosophical errors of our respective faiths, while enduring the derision of atheist or agnostic libertarians.

So here you have a group of people who want to help our neighbors, want to spread freedom, and want to follow our consciences. Why throw grenades at us? Why not use those superior intellects to help us?

[RMMHS4RP]

I've always thought it was a great moment when Milton Friedman answered the "capitalism runs on greed" argument as put forward by Phil Donahue. Friedman simply asked him if he believed that socialism didn't run on greed. Donahue didn't really know what to say.

All people are greedy at least some of the time. But greed, unlike some other vices, doesn't necessarily result in the violation of other people's rights.

Good presentation.

[VonStierlitz]

Donahue is a humorless dumbass. Here's what he should have said:

"No, socialism doesn't run on greed !

It runs on envy !" :D

[MagnusIan]

Christianity & capitalism go together? Too bad Jesus would say otherwise. I'd rather listen to Ayn Rand when it comes to captialism, not the Bible.

[rambo26]

Amen ;-)

[greatsea]

@MagnusIan --  Neither Jesus, Luke nor Paul were for forced sharing.

[Morrakiu]

Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, lest I useth force against thee

[VonStierlitz]

@MagnusIan

Exactly !.

Christianity is in conflict with capitalism. It has more in common with socialism though. By the way, F.Nietzsche explains very nicely and logically how Christianity actually inspires and incourages the postmodernist socialist lunacy.

[AshillaBeige]

Or a talking snake..

[XCritonX]

We have Christians and christians, just like we have Liberal and liberal. Be careful of calling people christians who don't really follow a christian lifestyle as outlined in the bible. The bible says that the heart is treacherous and so we should not trust it for decision making. The bible tells us to be wise, and use our power of reason. Unfortunately most Christians, like most people follow their heart and feeling instead of their intellect and reason.

[ls1z28chris]

@XCritonX People like you are the reason religion is allowed to be such a negative force on our society. Whenever it is criticized, moderates come out of the woodwork to apologize for their utterly insane co-parishioners.

Do the world a favor and stop making excuses for people who are bat-shit crazy, regardless of the degree to which that is the case.

[XCritonX]

Religion, like science, politics, and any other system is not capable of being a negative force in of itself. When people use these forces to harm their fellow man it is the desires and moral emptiness of the "aggressor" that is to blame.

BTW: If I were you I would reconsider calling anyone "bat-shit crazy". I have seen you YT page, thats bs crazy stuff. I hope you get help. Maybe Tim is just a voice in your head? If not, just tune him out, its counter-productive to threaten him on the web.

[ls1z28chris]

The three dominant monotheist religions on this planet all teach ignorance and submission to authority as virtues. That is an inherently negative, and indeed evil, proposition. There is no "positive" way to cast such dogma.

BTW: Wow, you clicked my screen name and looked at my channel? I could never have anticipated anyone doing that. Ad hom attacks on YouTube? No way...

Congratulations on understanding even less about me than you do about the inherent evil of religious dogma.

[XCritonX]

You seem to know so little about religion. I guess its a case of your lack of knowledge causing your prejudice.

Christendom has long ago abandoned the teachings of Christ. Leaders of the major "Christian" religions are bent on greedily gobbling up power and influence.

If you have read the bible, or spoken to christians who actually live a life inspired by Jesus Christ you would know that christanity is all about "the glorious freedom or the sons of God". It is a path to freedom and happiness.

[ls1z28chris]

All religions everywhere claim to be the "true" practitioners of their faith and also the "true" believers in god. You are no different than a Mormon, than a Scientologist, than a Protestant, than a Catholic, than a Russian Orthodox, than a snake charming, cousin fucking Pentecostal.

My problem is that I know too much about your religious inanity.

[glennd7962]

Wrong, religion on the whole is based on made up fairy tales from pre-modern times, whereas the other subject areas you mention are real. Stop talking about your, or any, religion as though its real. Faith is by definition not based on reason, its a 'mystery' according to the Christians, right? You can't have it both ways - either its faith or not.

[freesk8]

Yet faith is not based on reason, it is based on "heart and feeling."

When people are being Christians, they are NOT following reason.

[XCritonX]

Faith should be based on realities.

My faith in scientific principles is based on reason.

My faith in the sun rising is based on experience.

My faith in my wife is based on mutual love.

My faith in God is based on reason, experience and love.

Faith is often used interchangeably with belief. We all believe or have faith in something. Even atheists have faith that God doesn't exist. Faith based on wishful thinking is not faith, its dreaming. Dreaming is fine, just don't confuse it with reality.

[freesk8]

If you have direct observation of reality, you do not need faith.

Faith is accepting something when there is no physical evidence. If we had experience or a rational basis to believe in god, such as a proof, it would not require faith, and it would no longer be religion, it would be science.

The atheists view does not depend on faith. If there were scientific evidence or logical proof they would say that god exists. But there is not, so they do not.

Faith really IS wishful thinking.

[XCritonX]

Faith with out evidence is gullibility, not real faith. The problem is that most people have no clue what faith/conviction/belief is.

If you want proof of Gods existence look around you. YT is not really the place to have a full discussion about the proof of Gods existence. Its just too limiting.

In reality, even if an atheist is given proof of Gods existence he probably will not understand or believe it. His anti-god stance is largely based on personal feelings on the subject, not evidence.

[Brucev7]

@freesk8 The Atheists faith is in believing there is Not a God.

[obmax1212]

The faith you are describing is a conviction, not a mystical belief that has no basis in reality.

[glennd7962]

This is the line of reasoning that so many fundamentalists have retreated to and it's completely illogical. Faith is exactly the opposite of reason, no matter what you try and say. There is no proof of the existence of God, and I say proof in the meaning of a hypothesis about how God actually works and some empirical evidence to support the claim. There is none - so please, save your breath. To compare that to your "faith in your wife" - whatever that actually means - is spurious.

[97Wildfire]

You want me to frame it in the lingo of modern science? Okay, my hypothesis is that God exist. Numerous personal experiences have helped conform that for me. But dont take my word for it; test it for yourself. The Bible even gives you suggestions on how to test it (2 Chronicles 7:14-15, Proverbs 3: 5-7, Isaiah 58: 6-11).

[97Wildfire]

Laboratories are great places to learn what happens when you mix different chemicals together but I dont go there to learn philosophy or the meaning of life or any number of other things. Instead I relied on personal experience and a little faith. Sometimes that is worth more than a multitude of lab coats (Luke 10:21).

[glennd7962]

So, you can't form a rational argument. Don't feel bad, many people have tried and nobody can prove the existence of god. As for using the bible to prove the existence of god, that strikes me as a bit tautological, don't you think? Why can't you just accept that you believe something that has no rational basis? That is the nature of faith, is it not? Fyi, I was an observant, happy Catholic for a long time and then a Buddhist for about 5 yrs. My search for truth made me an atheist.

[97Wildfire]

@glennd7962 Okay? If you define a hypothesis you personally disagree with as irrational. Science is knowledge gained by observation, experimentation and EXPERENCE. Just because you disagree with the hypothesis doesnt mean there is no rational basis for belief in God. I wasnt trying to prove God with the bible. The bible instructs us about God and ways we can seek him. Whether you choose to seek him that way is up to you (James 1: 22-25)

[97Wildfire]

@glennd7962 As for you once being Catholic, so what? Following Catholicism is not necessarily following Christ as much of RC doctrine is contradictory to the New Testament. For one priest celibacy is unbiblical (1 Timothy 4: 1-3) and many other things Popes have just made up as they go along. Life is found in doing the things Christ taught (Matthew 7: 24-28). Dont want to believe? Thats fine, just dont pretend your position is the only rational one. Good Luck, I hope you do find the truth.

[rockinewok]

Your argument is also illogical. You are asking for "empirical" evidence on a being that exists in a form that empirical instruments aren't capable of studying.

What do you mean by "faith" anyway? After you answer that you can show me how it runs contrary to reason.

[glennd7962]

I won't even try anymore. If you can't define the difference between faith and reason, you are hopelessly deluded. Please do me a favor, don't reproduce and don't vote.

[rockinewok]

You're running from the question. I try to be as rational as I can and I asked a pretty simple question. "What do you mean by faith" and "how does it run contrary to reason". I am more than willing to take your answer into consideration. I asked the question because I wanted to understand your point of view before I dissected it. That's not being deluded, that's called being considerate. If you don't want to defend your position just say so.

[glennd7962]

You do possess a dictionary, yes? Look the words up yourself.

Seriously, you can't be this obtuse, can you? Faith is completely separate and distinct from reason, that much is clear to you yes? The nature of faith is believing in something, no matter the evidence for or against it. It's orthogonal to reason (there's a word worth looking up, although I have stretched just a bit here). Btw, you admit your inquiry is only intended as a foil for your own argument, so I decline to play.

[rockinewok]

You are making me laugh. You're getting all testy about a little scrutiny Glenn. I am so obtuse. I don't know if it is completely separate from reason. I want you to explain how it works to me.

[dimaniak]

CATO=Koch