Religious harmony comes from let go Shugden practice. It is a practice which is feared by Kagyuepas and Nyingmas. If Gelugpas love sentient beings they can let go Shugden practice. Why practising something which is feared,, and the rooted in murderer, fundamentalism, schism and quarrel? Shugden kills even those of the own sect if they'mix' teachings. Not to think about the three killed Shugden opponents. Very funny. Although Shugdenpas claim it is a religious practice it is a political practice.
1) I knew these protesters follower of Kalsang Gyaltso who is great liar and real hypocrite, he called him self as a Geshe but reality he hasn't graduated and gain title Geshe. He looks humble but every monks from Sera know about him as a hypocrite, lair and robber as well. Now a days he has relation with CCP government.
2)Monks from Sera abandon relation with him many years ago because of big liar and robber of Buddhist centre from FPMT Lama yeshi's centre in England. since he stop to put image of H.H.Dalai lama and not allowed to read H.H. Dalai lama books,lot of students stop to go his centre, actually so called his centre he robbed from FPMT Lama yeshi's centre.
The Enemies of BUDDHISM, TIBET and TIBETANS... The PUPPETS of CCP.... They must have been paid well as it seems that same people are seen everywhere- be in England, or Germany, or US, or in Australia, where ever HH the Dalai Lama travels... Who pays for their travels expenses- CCP!!!!
No Tsetop77: I am not thinking from the point of legality, but from the principal of "harm". Parents "prohibit" their children from doing things that Parents know (from their experience)are bad for them. Even though children many not see it that way.
Having said that, I totally agree with you on the point you raised that "every Tibetan regardless of their devotion towards His Holiness that they be able to voice their disagreements freely".
for TSetop: The benefit of doubt that His Holiness might have a very important reason. Like your son or daughter may be into drugs exercing their "freedom". And no matter what they think of you, you have to be firm and strong in telling them that they must quit taking drugs. Convetionally such measures are understood as concern, responsibilitity and compassion. Not supression of freedom.
I have no doubt that his Holines asked the tibetans to stop shudgen practice wth outmost compassion for us!
Yes,His Holiness is very liberal and is admired by millions for his views on tolerence.
I obviously respect and admire His Holiness and am very proud when I talk about His Holiness with my non-Tibetan friends.
BUT
I also believe that it is very very important for every Tibetan regardless of their devotion towards His Holiness that they be able to voice their disagreements freely.
We do not have to agree with everything said by His Holiness to prove our loyalty.
Tsetop77: I understand your liberal values and its very appealing and comfortable to think that 'every one practices whatever they want" and all is fine. BUT, I am afraid you are being very simplistic on this issue. You have to give some respect when His Holiness, far more liberal than any tibetan ever want to be, come to such 'spiritual' decisions. Lets say you don't know a shit about tibetan buddhism and its intricate philosophies. But you should still at least give the benefit of doubt.cont.
I have seen quite a bit of your post,and for the most part I agree with your views.
As for your latest that 'His Holiness faces the classic dilema: Do you tolerate the intolerent?'...your explanation that 'His Holiness has come with a remarkable solution:practise Shugden in privacy'.... saying the least is simplistic!
Tibetan society in exile has come a long way under the guidence of Kundun,we are presently experimenting with a democratic government ...contd
boasorte.There was religious council after Buddhas MAHAPARINIRVANA headed by Mahakasyapa.So that Buddhas pristine teachings could be preserved as it is. At present who could be more capable to uphold that high moral ground than HH The Dalai Lama. Practice of Shungden is inappropriate,not confirming to Buddhism.Buddhism is about BUDDHA,DHARMA,SANGA and root teacher GURU.Certainly not about misnomer evil spirit like Shugden. Some charlatens appease him for material gain. Leave alone DL, Commies
Wow. We have a Tibetan Moslem community in Lhasa. They were excellent entrepreneur and some inter married with Buddhist Tibetans and converted to Islam. Also they a Mosque in Lhasa site given by 5th Dalai Lama Dagyang Lingka(arrows distance park. After Chinese invasion they too became refugee in India. Their forefathers are believed to be from Kashmir INDIA, so many of them now live in Srinagar, and rest of them are settled in Darjeeling,Kalimpong and Nepal.There was no discrimination of reli*
His Holiness faces the classic liberal dilema: Do you tolerate the Intolerant?
Do you tolerate shuden followers who are intolerant of other Tibetan Buddhist traditions? Do you tolerate the Chinese communist who are intolerant of Tibetan buddhist culture and political view points?
And I think His Holiness has come with a remarkable solution: practice shugden in privacy, but not in the tibetan institutions who are there for all tibetans!
Its a doctrinal debate within tibetan buddhism and His Holiness is the most qualified to solve this. 99% tibetans support him. Western sangha should also know that the chinese government is using this as a tool to hit His Holiness and tibetans with. If you join the CCP, we will lose all respect for you. Afterall our lamas taught you... think of karmic consequences please. Keep doing your practice, but just let us be. don't punish us in this crucial time by joining the that communist regime
the rumour if those who follow gelugpa lineage go to other lineages like Nyingma, shugden will them. so as to establish inter-lineage harmony, His Holiness bannded this practice within the traditional tibetan institutions, THUS CREATING MORE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM WITHIN THE TIBETAN COMMUNITY. In private, every one is free to practice. Western shugden worshipers will be better off worship shugden spiritually as you claim, without telling the tibetans what to do. that way every one wins..
Tenzin do you know that in India if you practise shugden you are discriminated. exile government has done signature campaign taking oath that non pracitioners cannot talk, associate materially, financially and religiou with practitioners. Isn't that disgusting that such kind of mentality still exist in 21st century??? we Tibetans are busy fighting among each other. Its sad!!
lets get this straight. His Holiness said that within the gelugpa lineage to which he also belong to, those who practice shugden practice intolerance and discrimation against the other three tibetan buddhist lineages. Further, the status of shugden as a dharma protector is challanged by all the other three lineages and including many great gelugpa masters. In the tibetan community, every one knows that shugden worshippers creates fear among people by spreading the rumour...cntd...
The DL is up before the Indian High Court for supressing religious freedom. So he should be. Its not that long ago since he tried to hijack the Kagyu succession. Now its the Shugden branch of the Gelugpas he's trying to exterminate. That's not what the CIA gave him our money for.
what the hell are you on about there are loads of religions that are allowed to be practive in Chian. For example Christianity,Islam,Taoism,Buddhism,Tibeten Buddhism and scientology believ it or not
I am a Tibetan born in exile INDIA and now living in Canada for 28 years.
His Holiness Dalai Lama is my leader not because I am a Buddhist fanatic but because of his tireless work for the Tibetan people and raising awareness on the Tibetan issue in the world stage.
I do not agree with His Holiness on the deity issue nor with the autonomous Tibet proposal,but I belive this public protest and accusing Kundun and calling him names is wrong!!!!!!!
Why would the Dalai Lama allow the persecution of fellow Buddhists to take place in India? Maybe he's lost control over the Tibetan Youth Congress. That wild lawless bunch are definitely a liability to HH. I hope things get back to normal very soon, and sincerely wish that these devoted Dorje Shugden practitioners are allowed to continue to peacefully practice their religion without anymore persecution, without anymore violence. Enough is enough. The world is watching.
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Religious harmony comes from let go Shugden practice. It is a practice which is feared by Kagyuepas and Nyingmas. If Gelugpas love sentient beings they can let go Shugden practice. Why practising something which is feared,, and the rooted in murderer, fundamentalism, schism and quarrel? Shugden kills even those of the own sect if they'mix' teachings. Not to think about the three killed Shugden opponents. Very funny. Although Shugdenpas claim it is a religious practice it is a political practice.
ABCDIR 3 years ago
1) I knew these protesters follower of Kalsang Gyaltso who is great liar and real hypocrite, he called him self as a Geshe but reality he hasn't graduated and gain title Geshe. He looks humble but every monks from Sera know about him as a hypocrite, lair and robber as well. Now a days he has relation with CCP government.
sonam21 3 years ago
2)Monks from Sera abandon relation with him many years ago because of big liar and robber of Buddhist centre from FPMT Lama yeshi's centre in England. since he stop to put image of H.H.Dalai lama and not allowed to read H.H. Dalai lama books,lot of students stop to go his centre, actually so called his centre he robbed from FPMT Lama yeshi's centre.
sonam21 3 years ago
The Enemies of BUDDHISM, TIBET and TIBETANS... The PUPPETS of CCP.... They must have been paid well as it seems that same people are seen everywhere- be in England, or Germany, or US, or in Australia, where ever HH the Dalai Lama travels... Who pays for their travels expenses- CCP!!!!
Bastards
tenzinzigme 3 years ago
No Tsetop77: I am not thinking from the point of legality, but from the principal of "harm". Parents "prohibit" their children from doing things that Parents know (from their experience)are bad for them. Even though children many not see it that way.
Having said that, I totally agree with you on the point you raised that "every Tibetan regardless of their devotion towards His Holiness that they be able to voice their disagreements freely".
..cheers
tenzin7777 3 years ago
tenzin7777
As for your example of a 'son or daughter/drugs'.
The above is illegal.
No civilized and Free Country would consider the practice of the 'deity' illegal nor would it be banned.
As for myself,I do not practice the deity.
tsetop77 3 years ago
for TSetop: The benefit of doubt that His Holiness might have a very important reason. Like your son or daughter may be into drugs exercing their "freedom". And no matter what they think of you, you have to be firm and strong in telling them that they must quit taking drugs. Convetionally such measures are understood as concern, responsibilitity and compassion. Not supression of freedom.
I have no doubt that his Holines asked the tibetans to stop shudgen practice wth outmost compassion for us!
tenzin7777 3 years ago
tenzin7777
Yes,His Holiness is very liberal and is admired by millions for his views on tolerence.
I obviously respect and admire His Holiness and am very proud when I talk about His Holiness with my non-Tibetan friends.
BUT
I also believe that it is very very important for every Tibetan regardless of their devotion towards His Holiness that they be able to voice their disagreements freely.
We do not have to agree with everything said by His Holiness to prove our loyalty.
tsetop77 3 years ago
... trying to mix our three regions and different sects into one whole family.
But the present issue of Shugden regardless of how you look at it is a loss off rights for some Tibetans.
There are rotten elements on both sides,it is important that we respect each others traditions.
So if the Tibetan institutions is for all Tibetans then it should be secular.
The day Tibet becomes 'free' or 'autonomous' it will be led by Kundun with the support of ALL Tibetans.
tsetop77 3 years ago
Tsetop77: I understand your liberal values and its very appealing and comfortable to think that 'every one practices whatever they want" and all is fine. BUT, I am afraid you are being very simplistic on this issue. You have to give some respect when His Holiness, far more liberal than any tibetan ever want to be, come to such 'spiritual' decisions. Lets say you don't know a shit about tibetan buddhism and its intricate philosophies. But you should still at least give the benefit of doubt.cont.
tenzin7777 3 years ago
tenzing7777
I have seen quite a bit of your post,and for the most part I agree with your views.
As for your latest that 'His Holiness faces the classic dilema: Do you tolerate the intolerent?'...your explanation that 'His Holiness has come with a remarkable solution:practise Shugden in privacy'.... saying the least is simplistic!
Tibetan society in exile has come a long way under the guidence of Kundun,we are presently experimenting with a democratic government ...contd
tsetop77 3 years ago
boasorte.There was religious council after Buddhas MAHAPARINIRVANA headed by Mahakasyapa.So that Buddhas pristine teachings could be preserved as it is. At present who could be more capable to uphold that high moral ground than HH The Dalai Lama. Practice of Shungden is inappropriate,not confirming to Buddhism.Buddhism is about BUDDHA,DHARMA,SANGA and root teacher GURU.Certainly not about misnomer evil spirit like Shugden. Some charlatens appease him for material gain. Leave alone DL, Commies
tsewangpal3 3 years ago
Wow. We have a Tibetan Moslem community in Lhasa. They were excellent entrepreneur and some inter married with Buddhist Tibetans and converted to Islam. Also they a Mosque in Lhasa site given by 5th Dalai Lama Dagyang Lingka(arrows distance park. After Chinese invasion they too became refugee in India. Their forefathers are believed to be from Kashmir INDIA, so many of them now live in Srinagar, and rest of them are settled in Darjeeling,Kalimpong and Nepal.There was no discrimination of reli*
tsewangpal3 3 years ago
His Holiness faces the classic liberal dilema: Do you tolerate the Intolerant?
Do you tolerate shuden followers who are intolerant of other Tibetan Buddhist traditions? Do you tolerate the Chinese communist who are intolerant of Tibetan buddhist culture and political view points?
And I think His Holiness has come with a remarkable solution: practice shugden in privacy, but not in the tibetan institutions who are there for all tibetans!
tenzin7777 3 years ago
at least they got the tibetan flag with them.
splittist 3 years ago
But again you are protest.. we value free speech very much. It will eventually breeds greater understanding and greater harmony!
tenzin7777 3 years ago
Its a doctrinal debate within tibetan buddhism and His Holiness is the most qualified to solve this. 99% tibetans support him. Western sangha should also know that the chinese government is using this as a tool to hit His Holiness and tibetans with. If you join the CCP, we will lose all respect for you. Afterall our lamas taught you... think of karmic consequences please. Keep doing your practice, but just let us be. don't punish us in this crucial time by joining the that communist regime
tenzin7777 3 years ago
the rumour if those who follow gelugpa lineage go to other lineages like Nyingma, shugden will them. so as to establish inter-lineage harmony, His Holiness bannded this practice within the traditional tibetan institutions, THUS CREATING MORE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM WITHIN THE TIBETAN COMMUNITY. In private, every one is free to practice. Western shugden worshipers will be better off worship shugden spiritually as you claim, without telling the tibetans what to do. that way every one wins..
tenzin7777 3 years ago
Tenzin do you know that in India if you practise shugden you are discriminated. exile government has done signature campaign taking oath that non pracitioners cannot talk, associate materially, financially and religiou with practitioners. Isn't that disgusting that such kind of mentality still exist in 21st century??? we Tibetans are busy fighting among each other. Its sad!!
namgyalo 3 years ago
lets get this straight. His Holiness said that within the gelugpa lineage to which he also belong to, those who practice shugden practice intolerance and discrimation against the other three tibetan buddhist lineages. Further, the status of shugden as a dharma protector is challanged by all the other three lineages and including many great gelugpa masters. In the tibetan community, every one knows that shugden worshippers creates fear among people by spreading the rumour...cntd...
tenzin7777 3 years ago
The DL is up before the Indian High Court for supressing religious freedom. So he should be. Its not that long ago since he tried to hijack the Kagyu succession. Now its the Shugden branch of the Gelugpas he's trying to exterminate. That's not what the CIA gave him our money for.
boasorte 3 years ago
You think CIA will care?
liming2000 3 years ago
Yes,YOU ARE RIGHT.
The difference between your interpatation of Religious freedom and mine are very different.
Your's(Communist China's version) is state controlled and mine is Religion with no ties to the state and very free.
tsetop77 3 years ago
Regardless of your comments which I find absurd,China does not allow anyone to practice any religion!!!
tsetop77 3 years ago
what the hell are you on about there are loads of religions that are allowed to be practive in Chian. For example Christianity,Islam,Taoism,Buddhism,Tibeten Buddhism and scientology believ it or not
ForteZeroExcell 3 years ago
Yes,the communist will let you practice freely!!!!!
tsetop77 3 years ago
this dushbag still lives in the 1950s
kevindatz 3 years ago
In the old Tibet before 1950, you were only allowed to be Buddhist and it's illegal to convert to other religions.
ptr012345 3 years ago
ptr012345
Judging from your comments seem to know very little about old Tibet,so it would help if you stop commenting on a subject you know nothing!
tsetop77 3 years ago
I studied historical documents before I made the above remarks.
ptr012345 3 years ago
ptr012345
Yes you read Chinese communist party books for your research!!!
tsetop77 3 years ago
A historical document is a historical document. You can study the published laws of Tibet in history yourself.
ptr012345 3 years ago
This is no need to argue with tsetop. he is deeply brainwash.
kevindatz 3 years ago
kevdimaz
What do you mean....'this is no need'
and why do you claim to be brainwashed????!
tsetop77 3 years ago
sorry, you are not brainwashed. you are brainsmashed.
kevindatz 3 years ago
I am a Tibetan born in exile INDIA and now living in Canada for 28 years.
His Holiness Dalai Lama is my leader not because I am a Buddhist fanatic but because of his tireless work for the Tibetan people and raising awareness on the Tibetan issue in the world stage.
I do not agree with His Holiness on the deity issue nor with the autonomous Tibet proposal,but I belive this public protest and accusing Kundun and calling him names is wrong!!!!!!!
SHAME ON YOU ALL !!!!! SHAME ON YOU ALL !!!!!
tsetop77 3 years ago
Why would the Dalai Lama allow the persecution of fellow Buddhists to take place in India? Maybe he's lost control over the Tibetan Youth Congress. That wild lawless bunch are definitely a liability to HH. I hope things get back to normal very soon, and sincerely wish that these devoted Dorje Shugden practitioners are allowed to continue to peacefully practice their religion without anymore persecution, without anymore violence. Enough is enough. The world is watching.
BabylonMister 3 years ago