You will wish you were scared of hell while you were living, when you die and you actually find out the reality of hell, and how Satan has deceived you into it, every moment of your forever there, the ignorance of your life on earth will be ringing in your soul. When Christ gave his life for you so that you wouldn't have to suffer. A free gift of everlasting life. 'Hope' you're not wrong in your theory that all your consciousness and reality and surroundings all were birthed out of nothingness.
The virus of atheism, spreading depression and suicide by claiming life is empty, dark and meaningless. Dawkins says "a teacher from a distant country wrote to me reproachfully that a pupil had come to him in tears after reading (The Selfish Gene) because it had persuaded her that life was empty and purposeless. He advised her not to show the book to any of her friends, for fear of contaminating them with the same nihilistic pessimism." Talk about mind virus and child abuse.
@ChristianMission - life is only empty if you decide it's empty. the idea of god is that of mindless submission and oppression under a petty, insecure, bloodthirsty, genocidal dictator (i.e. the abrahamic god) seems much more bleak and hopeless. the only reason believers see life without a god as meaningless is because they've been conditioned to depend on their idea of god to give themselves a sense of value. you are responsible for giving meaning to your life. god is a tool for the weak.
@ChristianMission lol sound like her fairy tale house of cards fell down, in time she will see how great life is when you live it for real, and not wait for the here after to live p.s. more religious people have depresion,child abuse, and devorce then non-religious
They are scaring people into accepting a fire insurance policy. This is no better in logic than pascals wager, and is far more hateful and intolerant.
"Dead-to-the-spirit deluded "God Delusion" author & blithering fool scientist goon Richard Dawkins another "leader" given to the profane masses is another useful idiot for Jesuit machinations"
Jesuitical: pertaining to the Jesuits or their principals; designing; cunning; deceitful; prevaricating
The Jesuit Order completely altered the education system to suit their Evo-Hoax Agenda to discredit the Bible. Papacy cant have a Satanic society of 'Do as Thou Wilt' if people still follow the Bible
I was a christian once, but when I started asking questions about it, I was silenced and told that I should just believe. The more I asked questions the more the Christians became offended that I had inquired about the orgins of the book and told that I shouldn't ask questions about the validity of it-is this the kind of irrational people you want to be living with, obviously stupid and credulous??? I am now an atheist for life, religion and ignorance is now my enemy.
@SuperFifthwheel Wow, you're easily persuaded to change your beliefs. That stupid "Us Vs Them" mentality is the ultimate ignorance and evil, and yet both sides of the argument carry it. You're an Atheist because the non-atheists you know made you feel uncomfortable being with them. But there's NOT people who do the same on the other side? And just because some religious people acted like that, you assume that religion is all ignorance. It's like watching the news and thinking the world's dying.
@Bassbait Actually no, I've been an atheist for 20 or so years and about 24 religious year before that. And I am an atheist because I dont believe science fiction and fantasy books called the bible, Quran, and Torah. And you presume to be so arrogant as if you know who the fuck I am, who I've known, and what I've been through. If you don't like my story, fine, but dont assume that you are more special than anyone else, otherwise -if you do- fuck off.
@SuperFifthwheel I didn't assume I was more special than anyone else. I'm just defending a often misrepresented side of this terrible argument between materialism and... well, religion. The fact that nobody ever sits down and thinks about things with an unbiased perspective bothers me. Both sides of the argument are reactionary, you are against religion because you are reacting to the way religious people present themselves and their books, which you probably haven't bothered to read.
@Bassbait No, you assume that I havnt been a Christian before. That is insulting. You are defending something that I USED to defend. You somehow think that I just ASSUMED everything about Christians <---- that's called arrogance. I WAS a Christian, and I WAS arrogant, just like you. Believeing in the supernatural authoritarian dictatorship as %100 truth and telling me that YOUR god has power over me because he is behind you is BIASED. Ignorance and stupidity at its finest.
@SuperFifthwheel I never said anything about "my god". And I'm not defending any particular religion here. You are assuming that I'm telling you that my god has power over you, which I NEVER SAID ANYTHING RELATED TO. You are assuming that I am an evangelical, and not actually reading what I'm saying. I know you were a Christian before, but you had an obviously easily impressionable personality, and thus you were easily persuaded to believe that all religion is ignorant because of the few you met
@Bassbait Getting sucked into religion and the idea of an celestial dictator was easy when I was 6. It took me 24 years to reverse my decision. And I have known PLENTY of Christians in my life, and I think they are ALL nutcases for believeing the lie that is called religion. Apparently you didnt understand my analogy. People usually go to mental wards or are prescribed drugs for having imaginary friends -when you are part of a cult -that's supposed to be considered normal rational behavior.
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil—that takes religion. --Steven Weinberg
If you tell me some guy raped a hundred children and that he deserves to be castrated w/o anesthetic. I'm with you. God has allowed me that perception. But for some reason he's denied me the direct awareness that ANYONE deserves to roast forever. Why allow me the former perception and not the latter? If he had not screwed up so miserably in this matter I might be a christian today. I know what the answer is. If you tell me you have the awareness I lack you're either a liar or a psychopath.
the concept of hell is a cruel illusion, bestowed on the weak and children in order to brain-wash them and control them. Why does the church have so many misfits as part of its congregation? Why is this bullshit peddled in as many schools and colleges as possible? It is in order to programme the developing mind before it is able to see through the thin veneer and lies that the church exists ONLY to further its own profits. That. my friends, is all it amounts to. Sorry if you bought into it.
im an atheist but i disagree with dawkins that this horrible freak show is the result of just "faith." this is an extreme case with many other factors thrown in, mainly brainwashing and the leadership of corrupt individuals, faith is not necessarily a bad thing. the bible is full of so many contradictions that it really depends on the people who interpret them, not so much the scripture itself.
Because of 'faith' so many people will do anything...kill...rape...and even blow themselves up just because their faith tells them to. And yes you made a good point. The bible is full of so many contradictions and this is why as Dawkins suggested...throw the damn bible out the window and look at realities! Science! Evidences! Get your head out of your church window and use your church donation money for a vacation trip for atheist's sake!
Hollywood produces movies that are filled with gore, disgusting images of death and murder, demon possessions, and people line up at theaters to watch it all the time. So now people are upset because the church uses it as a tool in an "attempt" to show some harsh reality and so people get upset. By the way, our church has done "Hell House" in the past for FREE!!!!!!!!!!! So what's our reason for Hell House????
To scare people into believing that you're right? No wait, to frighten children into thinking they're going to burn for eternity because of arcane myths that have no basis in reality? Maybe it's because you get off on children's misery? I'm not sure,really. I wonder how you sleep at night...
@THAGHOSTMAN Holywood doesn't portray it's movies as fact. This DOES. You have no evidence aside from a book, and you're only serving to make people slaves to an ideology.
@Keitaro2011 so Hollywood movies that are filled with gore, disgusting images of death, murder, demon possessions are not TRUTH...its ok? That's hypocritical. I do believe that you and I were created by an intelligent designer. Evidence is found in oxygen, volcanoes, the universe, our biological and genetic make up, my wonderful wife and children, the solar system, (everything) :) It was set in motion by this creator. Jeremiah 29:13 is the only way you can know for yourself. God bless.
This is a crock of shit! You people are not only an embarrassment to yourselves but you're a huge slap in the face to all left hand path belief systems and this bullshit you're portraying is a representation of that.
@hester793 It's ridiculous, to be sure. The only answer that they can really defend is the historical context, even though most fundamentalists take the Bible literally... but then they turn around and say, "things are different now compared to the time in the old testament. Society has changed." That's the only answer I've ever heard, as if that's an acceptable response to the question. Otherwise they try to change the subject. No one I've ever met could provide any other logical answer, period
" These people aren't Christians " Really? What do you call them? Christian Satan? IMO Christians is as bad as their satan they use to scare people left and right. If God was real and as good as they claim he is...I bet you God won't allow those ignorant people to brainwash kids and freak the shit out of them so they can turn to God and be his slave for the rest of their lives!
Just seeing the rehearsals of this thing made me feel sick. Whether or not you believe in God, you should at least agree that putting a child through that is twisted. Cheers to Dawkins for being so calm in the face of such insanity.
THIS IS NOT HOW TO SPREAD THE WORD OF GOD jesus did not once go and try to scare people to make them believe him!!!! we are suppose to set examples for the lord and this is not the way to do it! i cant stand these kind of christians! that is why people are so against christians when not all christians are even like this!
really? this is horrific? has anyone watched a typical action movie? or childs cartoon lately? how is what these guys are doing somehow worse because they are doing it with a positive message behind it? how irresponsible to judge this wrong when we have all the stuff we do on tv and the internet? this is evil, but porn is ok? did i miss something here.....?
@shf84 in what way is simply saying that being gay is wrong and against nature homophobia? gay people have no affect on me either way. i do not judge them as people, fear them, or dislike them in anyway. however being gay is wrong, so simply because they dont believe what mainstream pushes they must homophobes? thats not a very educated perspective. so if we put someone in jail for murder, can we be called cowards for not letting them live the way they want?
@idunno123ism Sounds very much like some of the excuses "white nationalists" make to excuse their hatred of Jews, blacks etc. Your saying that their lives, their sexuality is wrong, that makes you intolerant at the very least. I just think that's disgusting is all.
@shf84 ok, so everyone else's opinion is ok but someone that contradicts their opinion is disgusting? me believing that 2 people of the same gender sleeping together is unnatural is disgusting? you dont see how maybe that perspective could be just a little backwards? and how am i excusing hating people for where they are from rather then what they do? are nt i doing the exact opposite of that? i dont hate gay people, but if my friend is drowning i llnotnotsavehimforfearofsayingiamabetterswimmer.
@idunno123ism When someone condemns a persons sexuality and life over something that is not a moral matter that's disgusting all right. You believing that two people of the same gender sleeping together is unnatural is false since you find it in nature, I wouldn't call it disgusting but I would call it ignorant. However, when you openly condemn it AND support a group the pushes a hate filled message against said people that's disgusting.
@shf84 yes i have not spoken of hate. by what means do we say the actions of a sociopath are wrong then? a person who is made miserable by happiness and only finds joy in the suffering of those around them? in their heart it is right, how do we say what they are doing is wrong or immoral? because it certainly appears to be right by them. me saying that doing something is wrong is not hate, it is the opposite of hate. i am trying to help ease the confusion.
@shf84 that is a very convenient explanation. i speak sound reasoning and you use words to demean a message without fully understanding it. i am the one with flawed logic right? yet you continue to illustrate the fact that you can not make a point without using demeaning terms, which i have used none. yet somehow i am on the side of hate? where is your logic and understanding? are you supposed to be on the side of reasoning and understanding according to you? i spin nothing. i speak simple truth
@shf84 so you are saying you would let a friend drown rather then call him a bad swimmer by saving him? lol how do you not perceive the error in the understanding that saying something is wrong is hate and homophobic? dont you even understand what you are say? rather then addressing the issue you rely on name calling to support your validations...i really dont see how i can make clearer the holes in your logic...i just dont understand hating someone enough to let them destroy themselves.....
@idunno123ism Bad analogy spin doctor. Being a bad swimmer or not is a simple fact. To compare being gay to being a bad swimmer who might drown just doesn't hold up . Nothing is going to happen to you if your gay being gay is not being flawed or being bad at something it's being gay. The fact that you equate it with being bad or self destructive shows an underlying homophobia.
@shf84 great analogy. that is a matter of your opinion, that you cant state without calling me names in an attempt to make your side look better, doesnt that make you what you are calling me? lol the analogy is only stating that they are doing something wrong, and need help, not that they are bad at life. so it is wrong for us to saying that lying and murder is wrong? because murder is key to survival of the fittest, what gives us the right to say it is wrong?
@idunno123ism Lies and murder hurt innocent people. Being gay hurts no one. Saying that being gay is wrong is wrong in it's self. It is not based on moral logic of any kind but bigotry. As to calling you names; you look at THAT video and you turn around and make excuses for THAT? And you wonder why you get called names? WTF?
@shf84 so people dont kill themselves because of confused emotions? aids didnt get it s massive start from gay bath houses in america? people that believe being gay is wrong arent getting prosecuted in america for speaking out against it? even though we are supposed to have free speech. no you are calling me names because you must assert your dominance otherwise your argument crumbles because there is no logic behind it.
@idunno123ism They kill them selves because they are continually harassed and rejected by bigots. Aids got it's start because people had unprotected sex, that has nothing to do with weather they are gay or strait. We have free speech but if you spew hate other people have free speech as well and will exorcise it (likely against you) Your view of gays is deeply colored by bias, and you say I have no logic?
@shf84 no. they kill themselves because they are confused. i say you have no logic because you are speaking backwards. so it is ok to spew hate against christian people but it isnt ok to tell someone they are doing something wrong if they are? where does that end? what right to we have to say murder is wrong? survival of the fittest right? we it d be easier to feed my family if i just took what we needed, how do you or anyone have the right to tell me that is wrong? but i cant saythatbeinggayis?
No, they kill themselves because they are driven to suicide by persecution at the hands of hate mongers and bigots. It is you who have it backwards. As to logic which one of us thinks some guy raised the dead and walked on water. You shouldn't even be mentioning logic. Were the universe fair the word would turn to molten lead in your mouth.
I prefer to hate against the xtian religion actually (for a vile and disgusting system of beliefs it is) and those who would force it off on innocent people.
Yes is is ok to tell someone they are doing wrong if in fact they actually are. To tell someone they are doing wrong because you don't happen to like what they are doing is however, wrong in it's self.
@shf84 so reaching into a lake to save your friend from drowning would be hatred towards him? because you are claiming to be a better swimmer then he? really a bold assumption of my understanding is what validates that i am the one spewing hate on something that i know nothing about? i am the one that has it backwards...? lol
@idunno123ism You already used that analogy It still doesn't work. Being gay is not going to hurt the person, should you try to "save" them from being gay your just sticking your nose into their personal life where it has no business. Their simply is no good reason behind your idea that gay = wrong.
@shf84 there are plenty of reasons. the only time gay sex occurs in nature is when one animal is trying to assert its dominance over another one, is this the reason gay people have sex with each other? so it is ok to say that being gay is unnatural. even if evolution is what brought us to be, especially if that is the case because it would go against the very nature of natural selection, stifling humans ability to progress, so if not from free will given by God being twisted,fromwheredoesitcome?
@edmacdaddy As a non theist, I agree that using scare tactics to frighten children into christianity is deplorable. However, I would disagree with your assertion that porn does not teach hate. Most mainstream porn that I've watched was blatantly mysogynistic.
@Hirnlego999 no. positive message being you dont have to and you can live your life free of the pain involved with sin. taking one single thing and isolating it doesnt make your claim against it right. i could say based on your response that you are the one sending people to hell, but that doesnt make it right. is it a bad thing when a parent corrects a child? why are you trying to make punishment the enemy rather then the action that causes it?
@idunno123ism That's the sinister thing with religion. It sells the sickness and the supposed cure. This is vile and immoral. I cannot send anyone to hell, I wouldn't be foolish or wicked enough to even invent such as place.
No, it is not wrong when parent correct their children, but you do no do that with the fear of hell...and parents are not always right, and respect to authority should be earned, not come automatically as in the commandments.
@Hirnlego999 lol you speak in reverse and accuse religion of doing it. how can you not understand that the creator of all has all respect. it is Him that wrote the very laws of this concept you use to try to discredit Him. He is wicked for inventing hell? so people that find pleasure in murdering children and raping people dont deserve to burn for eternity? you think they should have some lesser fate and yet it is religion that is sinister? i dare say you need look at your heart.
Hell? No, no one does? Why not make humans better. Some are born psychopaths, it is not their own fault. And many are dragged into wars and other bad stuff by others. Heart? It has no emotions, it's a muscle. If I create a robot and it does bad things, whos fault is it? The manufacturer! If I build a house and it collapses? Is the fault of the material or the one(s) who made it? The latter. It's not me who discredits him, if he exists then it his own doing. watch?v=p_nqySMvkcw
@Hirnlego999 the only thing that makes humans bad is that we have freewill. He does not want zombies that follow blindly He wants us to choose Him. your examples are completely wrong because inanimate objects are not made with freewill. bad things happen because people choose to do bad things. if people are sucked into war they dont want to be in and are killed, it is not God's fault, it is the fault of those starting the fight. do we blame the judge for the criminal being punished?
@idunno123ism There is no such thing as free will. It is somewhere inbetween.
Even by being born human a lot of what you are has already been decided for you.
Sorry, but the design argument holds, if you design something and it collapses then the fault lies with the manufacturer. Gods design if the bible is true results into most people entering hell. That's a faulty factory.
@Hirnlego999 lol i love how you just repeating what you said, which i have shown to clearly make no sense at all, is your return argument. you know that you are wrong and are to full of pride to admit it?
@Hirnlego999 if there is no such thing as freewill then why can people kill other people? the design flaws you speak of are freewill's impact on our lives. and yet you are blind...?
Again, simply by being a human most of the code is written on what you will be. Genetics has a lot to say, and if I had true will I would change a lot of things about myself to make it better (easy). Can I with my free will choose when to die? How fast to age? No, all that has been done "for" me...
@Hirnlego999 yes you can choose when to die and how fast you age. lifestyle defines a great deal of how quickly you age or when you die. this is scientifically proven not just spoken in the bible. are you saying stress doesnt add to the bodies age? stress in the physical and non physical sense? yes choices you make make life easier. how do you not see through your own sarcasm?
Here's a question. If you were god, and could create everything, would you create diseases and hell? And since these things exists, how would you view a politician with same powers as god who didn't intervene to stop things like that? My guess is very poorly, but god get's away with everything. Big brother is not great.
@Hirnlego999 i would do it exactly as God did. it is not His fault we choose to rebel against Him. but i would certainly not simply make all the choices for my creation, then they would just be zombies were there no choice. so why would i want respect from the creation i have forced to respect me? that is just silly. you would take away all things perceived as bad by the creation eliminating all choices? so youre saying you dont want freewill not that it doesnt exist.
And btw, since you're clearly religious I cannot describe as having liberty since you got an entire book which tells you what you must believe in, how you should behave...and it doesn't even end with death.
Design flaws..so it is because free will that millions of people are born with birth defects? Some so harch they won't survive long and some triggered years later when one single gene can activate various diseases? Was your god drunk when he was engineering?
@Hirnlego999 i dont choose to believe in the book? where do you come up with this stuff? no one forced me to make the choice to believe in God. it was my exercised freewill to go against the popular vote and believe in God. yes it is because of freewill that people are born with birth defects. what you see as a bad thing God sees as a judge of character. i would consider myself blessed to have a child that requires closer attention but your disdain for life will not allowyoutoseethewisdominthis.
@idunno123ism study after study shows that most people adapt their parents beliefs and/or society, they adapt societal norms mostly subconsciously.
Based on pure geographical knowledge one can be almost certain that a person believes in one thing and not the other. Born in India? Probably a hindu. Born in USA, probably xtian.
What distain for life? It is not me who is god who makes sure that everything is doomed to die. I didn't give them diseases, your god did, not just the good cosy stuff.
@Hirnlego999 lol so where are atheist from? haha those studies are wrong, there are christians all over the world, there are hindus all over the world, there are atheist all over the world. there are also many studies that show that people often raised christian reject it when faced with worldly views and vice versa. there is no absolute when it comes to human interaction with environment, it is purely based the the individual's interpretation of what happens. i was raised nonchristian,yetiam.
@idunno123ism There aren't so many atheists...because giving the wrong answer to the god question can often even today be a suicide at least socially. That's how accepting many of you religious people are. So millions stay closeted.
@Hirnlego999 is this comment a joke? making fun of God is the new black. everything on tv, pastors that stand on street corners, having moral values when it comes to sex and respect, these things are mocked openly. in what way is it hard to reject faith in God? you are joking arent you?
Religion is belly laughs and blasphemy is a victimless crime.
I cannot imagine a deity as the bumbling fool as he is pictured in the bible and other holy scriptures, which speak against each other btw. You cannot all be right but you could all be wrong.
@Hirnlego999 and what happens if i am wrong? i die and nothing. but what happens if you are wrong? then you will stand before a God you spent your life mocking...?? really worth the risk? to live a life free of bad things that can happen as a result of your actions for the sake of pleasing a just God, rather then living a life of pain because of bad choices and negative reactions to this? in what way is faith in God a bad thing?
@idunno123ism It's hard to get along with people like you because none of us could possibly take you seriously. You believe in a God unquestioningly who doesn't follow his own example.
Thou shalt not kill? Oops, there go the first born sons of Egypt.
They had pagan beliefs and enslaved the jews so therefore those sons of bitches deserved the 10 plagues? Oops, there goes human equality.
It's all about Christians, and fundamentalism is moral because it just is, isn't it?
@whippersnippingprick so instead of presenting an intelligent argument you simply mock what you dont understand? and yet it is hard to take me serious? and what about the fact that atheists claim to be the free thinkers? unless of course that means you have to accept the idea of a God figure in heaven...???
@idunno123ism First of all, I'm not an atheist. I'm an agnostic. To believe there is no God requires the same patterns as believing there is a God.
Second, Why would I mention something without even the slightest understanding of it? Did I ever tell you I WAS a Christian?
Third, if I were to mock something, I would have been saying 'FUCK YOU CHRISTIAN ASSHOLE, YOUR BELIEF SUCKS, THERE IS NO GOD, YOU'RE FUCKED IN THE HEAD AND YOUR BELIEFS ARE FULL OF SHIT' instead of what I recently said.
@whippersnippingprick so what is the dif between an agnostic and an atheist again? and you were def mocking, only that you didnt use so much anger..which really just makes it seem slightly more sad. you were never a christian. to be truly christian and to know the holy spirit would not allow your heart to grow so dark, and in mocking the things you did you showed your lack of understanding, so my statement was not unfounded.
@idunno123ism While both choose not to follow Christian text, Agnostics don't choose to believe whether a God ultimately exists or not, primarily because they are uncertain, whereas Atheists believe there is no God, full stop.
2. Maybe I wasn't the type of Christian as per your interpretation but nevertheless I used to follow God, I used to follow Jesus, but those days are history.
3. Why do I feel the need to criticize you if I may not be right? Because YOU may not be right either.
@whippersnippingprick i understand the fundamental difference between an atheist and and agnostic, but the factual dif is that there is no dif. both do not follow God. as an atheist one simply rejects God, at this is choosing a side, as an agnostic you simply sit on the fence rather then choosing a side, this is the cause of a great deal of confusion and adds only to indifference causing nothing but backwards walking, to the point there is no point foryoutodebateanyofthiscauseyousimplydontcare.
@idunno123ism 2 (again) I choose to debate because like I said, YOU may not be correct either, and my nature to not care is overpowered by whenever Christians make it seem like we're not equal.
3 (again) Like I said also, since God knows all (and probably remembers all as well), nobody could ever take back the things they have done, past, present or future. Therefore, there never was any real atonement. To have anything to do with God, we have to BE like God. But we're not and won't ever be.
@idunno123ism Fourth, in a way, yeah maybe I do feel I got to criticize you because you seem like one of those fundamentalists who associates intelligent arguments, morality, and meaning of life only with Christian text and values, and all other ideas can just go to Hell. Any Muslim living in a cave in Afghanistan can feel the same about you and your beliefs, so that means neither one of you are correct let alone special in any way. There are many problems in faith, and even the smallest count.
@whippersnippingprick so by your sense of logic, nothing is right nor wrong. so even you are wrong and have no argument? so why do you feel the need to criticize christian fundamentalist specifically? if everyone got it wrong why waste your time on this one specifically? you can not judge a faith by those in the public eye that say they follow it. you must actually know something about it. in what way is punishing the egyptians for what they did against human equality?
@idunno123ism 4. The Egyptians? It's just an example. Since God made all equally sinful, and since God only sees humankind equal only in respect to sin, God broke his own rules taking sides with mortal Moses. With or without Jesus, no matter how faithful you are, no matter how sorry you are, no matter how well you act for or against God, you can't take back what you do. According to God, so all knowing and divine, one already sins being born, and that having the potential to sin is just as bad.
@whippersnippingprick your entire argument is simply wrong, there are many ways for man to atone for sin in the old testament, before Jesus, moreover, God did not create man sinful, God created man perfect and we chose to reject what He taught us we should do, God didnt create sin simply because He gave us a choice. if He took our choice away and there was no sin, you would hate Him for forcing us to follow and giving us no free thought. and God favored His chosen people, where does itsayHewont?
@idunno123ism 1 (again). Nobody is free who has some 'great' lord to tell them what is right and what is wrong. Freedom and submission don't co exist, or the purpose of individual freedom is defeated. You sound like one of those guys who is really trying to say 'It's all about God, and I don't care what he did, he made us, so we must always serve him, and that's that.' Oh, and if God forced us to love him and there were no freedom, there really would be no hate and there would be no Hell either.
@whippersnippingprick everyone is free to do what they want, that doesnt mean there arent consequences for doing stuff that is wrong. you think that it takes our freedom to have rules like not to murder or lie or sleep around? name one good thing that comes from doing any of the things we arent supposed to do according to God's laws. if we follow God our lives are made easier, you act like it is some burden to do the right thing, it is our freedom in it s purest form when we do what is right.
@idunno123ism If you consider in the Bible that even God put millions of people to death despite telling us not to kill, that doesn't sit well with me. I don't want my morality coming from God. My feelings have told me it's wrong to kill. I suppose then it all came down to some guys with a convincing story to tell us otherwise and make a billion dollar industry out of it. The same guys who wrote that it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for rich men to go to Heaven?
@whippersnippingprick God only told one people to kill one other people and it was the jewish people to completely get rid of the palestine because God saw that they were evil and would persecute the jewish people through out history if they did not, and look what happened because the jewish people did not listen to God and do as they were told. you dont see the logic in the eye of the needle story? in what way dont you see how strong that sense of logic is? a man that haseverythingneedsnothing.
@idunno123ism Oh, here we go again. You forgetting the flood? 40 days and 40 nights of vicious terrible rain sent by who now? Does any of that ring a bell?
Besides which, I told you I'm done I'm not going to bother arguing with some guy who goes 'The law of God is good no matter what, disobedience is the ultimate sin, just ask the Jews. Either do it God's way or you going to hell!' That's a retard's way of thinking.
There's no understanding, so for the last time, have a nice day.
@whippersnippingprick so your logic dictates if someone disagrees with you, you simply ignore it and it stops mattering? how do you learn anything? you speak of God as the bad one with a wicked heart and yet you can not see past your own disdain...?
@idunno123ism The last thing I will ever say to you is this: The God of the Bible is a moral monstrosity. If he was so perfect and had everything, he wouldn't have wasted his time creating us to begin with.
Lastly, I never said doing the right thing is a burden. I feel glad teaching my young 4 year old neighbour how to tie his shoelaces because it certainly keeps him safer than prayer.
So really, I don't know if God is real, but it would be better for his reputation if he weren't.
@Hirnlego999 cont. christian. God did not create bad things, people and satan made bad things through changes to all the good tools God gave us to live. it is our freewill and interaction that has made need for these things. you blame the parent for punishing the child? or the judge for the murderer going to jail. again you speak backwards and yet dont see it some how.
@idunno123ism Sorry, but if you create everything then you create all the bad things as well, including diseases, death, original sin (wicked), hell, earthquakes, non-livable land, famine.
You cannot just pick and choose. If jesus could heal a cripple then he could heal all mankind, but he didn't, nor does his father. God made human fragile, a bump in the head in the wrong way and entire personality might be altered. In child birth, how many thousands of mothers have died? This is poor design.
@Hirnlego999 no God did not create bad things, He gave us freewill and we used what He created to make bad things happen. if you tell your child not to run but he continues to run even while you tell him he will get hurt and he slips and get hurt, did you make him fall and get hurt? it is not poor design we were created perfect and chose to rebel against God therefore we are punished. child birth? you brought up something so specifically addressed in the bible without knowing?
Really, so who created diseases? Where did they come from?
If we are perfect then how come we use trillions each to battle diseases?
3 minutes without oxygen and humans suffer brain damage, what kind of design is that? A friend's child was born without the left hand, why is that. Is it because of the free will of the child? He was never asked... and so it is with anything.
@Hirnlego999 they come from sins influence over our lives. no it is not because of the freewill of the child, sometimes some people's freewill causes harm to other people. if everyone that did anything bad that hurt others were forced to obey certain rules of living without any choice, freewill would be stopped. if it is taken from even those that choose to do bad with it its very existence becomes meaningless. so you are saying we shouldnt have children cause if they do anythingbaditisourfault?
I a child cannot decide, nor can a parent decide which genes he or she will pass along to their children. This has a source, and it is a very problematic question for you to answer. I think you religions should work hard on getting gods mistakes nullified, we need to cure diseases.
@Hirnlego999 so making bad decisions like smoking cigs and a child picking us the habit, or living an unhealthy lifestyle, that children emulate, such as overeating or sleeping around which are our leading cause of passed down "genetic" diseases has no affect? making good healthy decisions is pointless? then why does anyone do it? you truly believe that a large part of our disease is simply genetic? if this is the way most scientist think, no wonder disease spreads so rampant.
@Hirnlego999 can you read genesis chapter 3? we were created to endure no pain in giving birth. created to be perfect it is our actions against God that caused these things to be. how can you not see cause and consequence is not the fault of the judge but the one committing the offense?
Again, what you state is a perfect example of created sick and commanded to be healthy. Even the invention of original sin is LOL because he puts his own incompetence on his own creation, they'll have to suffer because of his mistakes while all he had to do is to go back to the drawing board. How can a deity be so incompetent in placing a forbidden tree in the eden? That's extremely poor parenting especially considering all the super powers he has.
@Hirnlego999 how do you not understand that God wanted us to have minds to choose Him or against Him? how is this a lacking? that we arent zombies that have no choice, instead a being with cognitive thought that can choose. that is poor parenting? so parents should eliminate all choices for their children and never give them a chance to define their character through life's test? you try to spin everything so that it is the creator's fault for the actions of the creation,this is simply not so.
Actually he demands that we have no others by his side. So again, I think he should work harder on wiping out all those other religions if he has anything sort of a decent morality and wants to actually save them. Or perhaps he enjoys their torment? A lot ends there and he does nothing. This isn't good. But it is easy to understand if we take him out of the picture and dare to admit that he probably doesn't exist or the very least doesn't give a fuck.
@Hirnlego999 again, if people can not decide to go against God there is no freewill. then we would all simply be mindless slaves and that is not what God wants. He wants us to have the strength of character to choose Him in the face of adversity. if He willed it to be so he could re-write all of existence and changed everything to simply be perfect, but who likes a movie without a protagonist and an antagonist? simply because some choose not to follow is no reason totakethefreewillofthosethatdo.
Again, what you state is a perfect example of created sick and commanded to be healthy. Even the invention of original sin is LOL because he puts his own incompetence on his own creation, they'll have to suffer because of his mistakes while all he had to do is to go back to the drawing board. How can a deity be so incompetent in placing a forbidden tree in the eden? That's extremely poor parenting especially considering all the super powers he has.
Depends. Some people are born defective, psychopaths. They are difficult to blame.
If someone claims that God has told them to kill, who do you blame? God asks at least in the OT to wipe out entire cities. And xtians produced 2 world wars. Is this because of god? And if god demands human sacrifice, would you obey?
Fact is, if a factory made so many malfunctioning people it would face bankruptcy. This is not good design and you I believe know this.
@Hirnlego999 God asked the jewish people to wipe out the palestine because God new they were evil and would always be evil, but the jewish people didnt do it and they suffer even to this day for not doing so. do you think it was wrong to stop hitler? that we should have just let him live out his life and not interfere? God would never demand human sacrifice. so you are posing a mute point. again you repeat inanimate object point, that is no point no matter how many times you say it.
God asks for genocide? This is what you worship? What a source of immorality.
No, I don't think it was wrong to stop Hitler. My question is why didn't God do that? He could have given Hitler a disease (bless this invention) and he would never have gained power. But your god allowed WWII to happen, perhaps he even approved? Some say this is how god got the israelis back to israel. Couldn't think of anything better?
@Hirnlego999 God asked for the genocide of one people in the bible, the Palestinians, and the jewish people didnt do it, and look how they suffer even to this day for not obeying. because God gives us the ability to manage ourselves. hitler was stopped wasnt he? hitler did not take over the world and kill everyone he wanted to, if there was no God people like him would never be stopped because there would be no positive influence on the world.
Sigh, it's their own voice they are hearing. Hitler's actions wiped out 60 million or so people. God could have made him a recipient of a bullet during WWI. If he is all knowing and all wise he must have seeing this coming.
watch?v=G5JtxrR6msg
Even if god asked for one single genocide (that's enough for me) and he is unworthy of human respect. We have enough trouble as it is without god demanding people to make things more bloody.
@Hirnlego999 sigh back at you, if God takes the freewill of one person He defeats the entire point of giving us freewill. look at who hitler most targeted. the jewish people, to this day the jewish people suffer because they in large reject Jesus, hitler is evidence of God and Jesus if he is anything at all. genocide? what entire race of people is dead because of hitler? not one. it was stopped when man stepped up and took care of it. God does not clean our messes. it is ourjob.howdoyoublamehim?
He gives people this option, follow me and you'll be blissful. But you can choose otherwise as well, but they're all bad, extremely bad, more than the word bad can describe. This is not free will. And against my free will I age, I forget things which I do not want to forget, I get sick, I'll die..countless examples.
This is treating people worse than labrats. As for jesus, most people will never ever even have chance to reject Jesus, they still haven't been indoctrinated into it.
@Hirnlego999 in what way is Jesus living a perfect life then being murdered by the people he came to save God's fault? the people had a person among them performing miracles and changing people's lives, at any time humanity could have followed him. instead people choose greed and power and kill him because they did not want accountability for their actions, Jesus did have to die. people could have accepted him, instead they turned on him, freewill, not God's fault.
Seems to me the part of the plan was getting Jesus killed so that mankind could be saved, forgiven or whatever. If God had an IQ over 80 he could simply not have bothered, because he must have known about other religions and how just bloody this divisiveness would turn into.
As for performing miracles, turning water into wine but also the better ones like healing a cripple... I think this idea should be expanded upon..
The already had religions and own gods with own accountability
@Hirnlego999 but if God took the choices away, there would be no free will. it is not God's fault for allowing us to make choices that we make bad ones. that s like saying we shouldnt drive cars because we could get into an accident.
@Colinski03 very well thought out educated response. if you have nothing to add please dont try. this is a pretty big discussion. all you are doing is discrediting your side with little quirky attempts at insult.
This is why people who can think for themselves often find themselves unable to relate to "christians". These kinds of tactics essentially only confuse and scare young children and teenagers, which I'm sure Jesus LOVES! Poor Jesus...it's always the crazy people who speak for him.
@idunno123ism Violence in movies and pornography is for entertainment purposes. This however is closer to a kkk rally where the message is to hate someone. This is not meant as entertainment this, is meant to convey a hate filled message.
@shf84 you dont think watching pornogrophy and violence on a regular basis, especially for entertainment when we are relaxing our minds and bodies, changes our perspective at all? simulated violence and sexual deviance doesnt affect our minds in the same way? really?
@idunno123ism Maybe some people who have issues with it. If there is an effect it's purely incidental. Unlike listening to hate filled ideology about stoning gays and women submitting to men. Also what is sexual "deviance"
@shf84 you are right about women be subject. that is wrong. we are equals, no where in the new testament, the part christianity is based on, the rest is human history lessons, does it say that it is to be man over woman. sexual deviance is a whole list of things. pornogrophy, sleeping with many partners, being gay, sex outsides of life long bond. you think it is a coincidence that people that only sleep with 1 person have no health problems because of sex, ever?
@shf84 and to say that nothing bad has ever happened from anyone being gay is willful ignorance. aids would not be as strong as it is in america right now if it werent for gay group sex parlors in the 80's, i dont know how else to illustrate this? what will it take to see the error of our ways as humans and let go of our foolish pride?
@idunno123ism what you call sexual deviance I just call sex. People have been engaging in those kind of acts since our species evolved. It's not deviant, it's the norm. Some practices spread disease but that doesn't make them deviant it makes them stupid maybe but nothing more. To say that someone being gay causes aids is just ignorant and based on bigotry not logic, not all
Richard: Why are you so passionately against homosexual marriage?
Pastor: I'm just telling you what the Bible says.
Richard: But these are 2 people who want to live together. What right do you have to interfere?
Pastor: (Pause) Crap, now I have to think.
ThePhantom135 1 month ago
You will wish you were scared of hell while you were living, when you die and you actually find out the reality of hell, and how Satan has deceived you into it, every moment of your forever there, the ignorance of your life on earth will be ringing in your soul. When Christ gave his life for you so that you wouldn't have to suffer. A free gift of everlasting life. 'Hope' you're not wrong in your theory that all your consciousness and reality and surroundings all were birthed out of nothingness.
SunnyLovetts 2 months ago
"Because of evidence" PWNED.
Ryansax1983 2 months ago
Richard Dawkins: keep being awesome.
Zenagaserpent 2 months ago
I love when Dawkins rebuts this pastor faith in the Bible answer with one word EVIDENCE. The one thing that this pastor never will have.
TheAvengingAtheist 2 months ago
repulsive lust for one another...joining... repulsive joining... oxymoron?
payasoinfeliz 2 months ago
"Power invasion" sounds like the name of a hardcore gay bathhouse
Groth1175 2 months ago
ChristianMission
The virus of atheism? evidently you haven't read your history books about the virus of religions. Kill them in the name of your gods!
edmacdaddy 2 months ago 2
The virus of atheism, spreading depression and suicide by claiming life is empty, dark and meaningless. Dawkins says "a teacher from a distant country wrote to me reproachfully that a pupil had come to him in tears after reading (The Selfish Gene) because it had persuaded her that life was empty and purposeless. He advised her not to show the book to any of her friends, for fear of contaminating them with the same nihilistic pessimism." Talk about mind virus and child abuse.
ChristianMission 2 months ago
@ChristianMission - life is only empty if you decide it's empty. the idea of god is that of mindless submission and oppression under a petty, insecure, bloodthirsty, genocidal dictator (i.e. the abrahamic god) seems much more bleak and hopeless. the only reason believers see life without a god as meaningless is because they've been conditioned to depend on their idea of god to give themselves a sense of value. you are responsible for giving meaning to your life. god is a tool for the weak.
alexasz1 2 months ago
@ChristianMission lol sound like her fairy tale house of cards fell down, in time she will see how great life is when you live it for real, and not wait for the here after to live p.s. more religious people have depresion,child abuse, and devorce then non-religious
mykmmc 2 months ago
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@ChristianMission most people who commit suicide in america are christian. fyi.
payasoinfeliz 2 months ago
"Why do you not believe it?" "Uh, because of evidence." Snap, Richard. Snap.
PunkAndRun1 2 months ago
They are scaring people into accepting a fire insurance policy. This is no better in logic than pascals wager, and is far more hateful and intolerant.
daemonowner 3 months ago
Gotta love this. I love the USof A!!!!!
Frankydoesitalso 3 months ago in playlist Meer video's van edmacdaddy
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"Dead-to-the-spirit deluded "God Delusion" author & blithering fool scientist goon Richard Dawkins another "leader" given to the profane masses is another useful idiot for Jesuit machinations"
Jesuitical: pertaining to the Jesuits or their principals; designing; cunning; deceitful; prevaricating
The Jesuit Order completely altered the education system to suit their Evo-Hoax Agenda to discredit the Bible. Papacy cant have a Satanic society of 'Do as Thou Wilt' if people still follow the Bible
SpencerBenedict2nd 3 months ago
Religious kooks. Fuck them and their disgusting religion.
sweetsweatyfeet 5 months ago 2
I was a christian once, but when I started asking questions about it, I was silenced and told that I should just believe. The more I asked questions the more the Christians became offended that I had inquired about the orgins of the book and told that I shouldn't ask questions about the validity of it-is this the kind of irrational people you want to be living with, obviously stupid and credulous??? I am now an atheist for life, religion and ignorance is now my enemy.
SuperFifthwheel 5 months ago 2
@SuperFifthwheel Wow, you're easily persuaded to change your beliefs. That stupid "Us Vs Them" mentality is the ultimate ignorance and evil, and yet both sides of the argument carry it. You're an Atheist because the non-atheists you know made you feel uncomfortable being with them. But there's NOT people who do the same on the other side? And just because some religious people acted like that, you assume that religion is all ignorance. It's like watching the news and thinking the world's dying.
Bassbait 5 months ago
@Bassbait Actually no, I've been an atheist for 20 or so years and about 24 religious year before that. And I am an atheist because I dont believe science fiction and fantasy books called the bible, Quran, and Torah. And you presume to be so arrogant as if you know who the fuck I am, who I've known, and what I've been through. If you don't like my story, fine, but dont assume that you are more special than anyone else, otherwise -if you do- fuck off.
SuperFifthwheel 5 months ago
@SuperFifthwheel I didn't assume I was more special than anyone else. I'm just defending a often misrepresented side of this terrible argument between materialism and... well, religion. The fact that nobody ever sits down and thinks about things with an unbiased perspective bothers me. Both sides of the argument are reactionary, you are against religion because you are reacting to the way religious people present themselves and their books, which you probably haven't bothered to read.
Bassbait 5 months ago
@Bassbait No, you assume that I havnt been a Christian before. That is insulting. You are defending something that I USED to defend. You somehow think that I just ASSUMED everything about Christians <---- that's called arrogance. I WAS a Christian, and I WAS arrogant, just like you. Believeing in the supernatural authoritarian dictatorship as %100 truth and telling me that YOUR god has power over me because he is behind you is BIASED. Ignorance and stupidity at its finest.
SuperFifthwheel 5 months ago
@SuperFifthwheel I never said anything about "my god". And I'm not defending any particular religion here. You are assuming that I'm telling you that my god has power over you, which I NEVER SAID ANYTHING RELATED TO. You are assuming that I am an evangelical, and not actually reading what I'm saying. I know you were a Christian before, but you had an obviously easily impressionable personality, and thus you were easily persuaded to believe that all religion is ignorant because of the few you met
Bassbait 5 months ago
@Bassbait Getting sucked into religion and the idea of an celestial dictator was easy when I was 6. It took me 24 years to reverse my decision. And I have known PLENTY of Christians in my life, and I think they are ALL nutcases for believeing the lie that is called religion. Apparently you didnt understand my analogy. People usually go to mental wards or are prescribed drugs for having imaginary friends -when you are part of a cult -that's supposed to be considered normal rational behavior.
SuperFifthwheel 5 months ago
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil—that takes religion. --Steven Weinberg
rhideSpecialized 6 months ago
What a joke this is.
supercork 7 months ago
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If you tell me some guy raped a hundred children and that he deserves to be castrated w/o anesthetic. I'm with you. God has allowed me that perception. But for some reason he's denied me the direct awareness that ANYONE deserves to roast forever. Why allow me the former perception and not the latter? If he had not screwed up so miserably in this matter I might be a christian today. I know what the answer is. If you tell me you have the awareness I lack you're either a liar or a psychopath.
dymchurch1 7 months ago
4:18 HAHAHAHAHA
Juan25toni 9 months ago
Two women getting married is their idea of scary? Lame.
persephone1980 10 months ago
the concept of hell is a cruel illusion, bestowed on the weak and children in order to brain-wash them and control them. Why does the church have so many misfits as part of its congregation? Why is this bullshit peddled in as many schools and colleges as possible? It is in order to programme the developing mind before it is able to see through the thin veneer and lies that the church exists ONLY to further its own profits. That. my friends, is all it amounts to. Sorry if you bought into it.
domodunc 10 months ago
pwnage @ 4:18
Professor Dawkins, " ...what makes your so confident they're (scriptures) right?..."
nutty pastor, "It is a faith issue with me, why you do not believe it?"
Professor Dawkins, "Because of evidence."
l337pwnage 11 months ago
im an atheist but i disagree with dawkins that this horrible freak show is the result of just "faith." this is an extreme case with many other factors thrown in, mainly brainwashing and the leadership of corrupt individuals, faith is not necessarily a bad thing. the bible is full of so many contradictions that it really depends on the people who interpret them, not so much the scripture itself.
AWSH17 1 year ago
@AWSH17
Because of 'faith' so many people will do anything...kill...rape...and even blow themselves up just because their faith tells them to. And yes you made a good point. The bible is full of so many contradictions and this is why as Dawkins suggested...throw the damn bible out the window and look at realities! Science! Evidences! Get your head out of your church window and use your church donation money for a vacation trip for atheist's sake!
llnetbeast 8 months ago
a gay rights group protested against these people and they sued them
MamaMario13 1 year ago
Hollywood produces movies that are filled with gore, disgusting images of death and murder, demon possessions, and people line up at theaters to watch it all the time. So now people are upset because the church uses it as a tool in an "attempt" to show some harsh reality and so people get upset. By the way, our church has done "Hell House" in the past for FREE!!!!!!!!!!! So what's our reason for Hell House????
THAGHOSTMAN 1 year ago
To scare people into believing that you're right? No wait, to frighten children into thinking they're going to burn for eternity because of arcane myths that have no basis in reality? Maybe it's because you get off on children's misery? I'm not sure,really. I wonder how you sleep at night...
alphathefish 10 months ago
@alphathefish BINGO!!! I sleep well...God bless and Jesus loves you!
THAGHOSTMAN 10 months ago
@THAGHOSTMAN Holywood doesn't portray it's movies as fact. This DOES. You have no evidence aside from a book, and you're only serving to make people slaves to an ideology.
Keitaro2011 5 months ago
@Keitaro2011 so Hollywood movies that are filled with gore, disgusting images of death, murder, demon possessions are not TRUTH...its ok? That's hypocritical. I do believe that you and I were created by an intelligent designer. Evidence is found in oxygen, volcanoes, the universe, our biological and genetic make up, my wonderful wife and children, the solar system, (everything) :) It was set in motion by this creator. Jeremiah 29:13 is the only way you can know for yourself. God bless.
THAGHOSTMAN 5 months ago
This is a crock of shit! You people are not only an embarrassment to yourselves but you're a huge slap in the face to all left hand path belief systems and this bullshit you're portraying is a representation of that.
Iconoclast12100 1 year ago
lets scare people into Christianity. WTF?!
Mcknzgrover11 1 year ago 19
Why didn't Richard mention slavery? Jesus and the new testament never said a word about homosexuality. Only the old testament condems it.
But, the old testament also demands that we keep slaves (among other things). Why aren't these people as firm on slavery as homosexuality?
hester793 1 year ago
@hester793 It's ridiculous, to be sure. The only answer that they can really defend is the historical context, even though most fundamentalists take the Bible literally... but then they turn around and say, "things are different now compared to the time in the old testament. Society has changed." That's the only answer I've ever heard, as if that's an acceptable response to the question. Otherwise they try to change the subject. No one I've ever met could provide any other logical answer, period
Schragmeister 1 year ago
Then again ours is slightly more graphic
spiderlily21 1 year ago
yea its called scared straight lol 12 whoa thats sets pretty young man... I donno the age limit at ours 15+
spiderlily21 1 year ago
yea its called scared straight lol
spiderlily21 1 year ago
I always laugh at the part where Richard Dawkins says "Uh... because of evidence." It just sounds so much stronger than faith.
Anarchist711 1 year ago 4
Rock on Richard Dawkins.
mummyjohn 1 year ago 28
These people aren't Christians
Pablokolter 1 year ago
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@Pablokolter
" These people aren't Christians " Really? What do you call them? Christian Satan? IMO Christians is as bad as their satan they use to scare people left and right. If God was real and as good as they claim he is...I bet you God won't allow those ignorant people to brainwash kids and freak the shit out of them so they can turn to God and be his slave for the rest of their lives!
llnetbeast 8 months ago
Just seeing the rehearsals of this thing made me feel sick. Whether or not you believe in God, you should at least agree that putting a child through that is twisted. Cheers to Dawkins for being so calm in the face of such insanity.
samaingypsy 1 year ago 2
Teaching "Jesus"= stupidly and how to be moronic
Teaching science= landing on the moon and cures for diseases
TheBuilder65 1 year ago 3
@TheBuilder65 my favourite is: "Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings"
MamaMario13 1 year ago 3
lol, I love it when the pastor says "Why do you not believe it?" "...Because of evidence."
HyperGoth7 1 year ago
POWER INVASION
thirtysilver 1 year ago
I love Dawkins' statement when asked why he doesn't believe being gay is wrong, "Because of evidence"
martymoviemaker 1 year ago
this guy is proof any asshole can be a pastor..not like you have to go to pastor school..you just need a bible and a right wing agenda.
alltiedup217 1 year ago
DRAMATIZED GANG RAPE???? I bet the guys still get hard ons.. Yeah they do...you know they do!
shoegooguru 1 year ago
They've done the impossible:
They made Freddy Krueger look normal!
O_O
lonelysith66 1 year ago
THIS IS NOT HOW TO SPREAD THE WORD OF GOD jesus did not once go and try to scare people to make them believe him!!!! we are suppose to set examples for the lord and this is not the way to do it! i cant stand these kind of christians! that is why people are so against christians when not all christians are even like this!
jayejaye33 1 year ago
really? this is horrific? has anyone watched a typical action movie? or childs cartoon lately? how is what these guys are doing somehow worse because they are doing it with a positive message behind it? how irresponsible to judge this wrong when we have all the stuff we do on tv and the internet? this is evil, but porn is ok? did i miss something here.....?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism You call that a positive message? What is positive about homophobia and sexism?
shf84 1 year ago
@shf84 in what way is simply saying that being gay is wrong and against nature homophobia? gay people have no affect on me either way. i do not judge them as people, fear them, or dislike them in anyway. however being gay is wrong, so simply because they dont believe what mainstream pushes they must homophobes? thats not a very educated perspective. so if we put someone in jail for murder, can we be called cowards for not letting them live the way they want?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism Sounds very much like some of the excuses "white nationalists" make to excuse their hatred of Jews, blacks etc. Your saying that their lives, their sexuality is wrong, that makes you intolerant at the very least. I just think that's disgusting is all.
shf84 1 year ago
@shf84 ok, so everyone else's opinion is ok but someone that contradicts their opinion is disgusting? me believing that 2 people of the same gender sleeping together is unnatural is disgusting? you dont see how maybe that perspective could be just a little backwards? and how am i excusing hating people for where they are from rather then what they do? are nt i doing the exact opposite of that? i dont hate gay people, but if my friend is drowning i llnotnotsavehimforfearofsayingiamabetterswimmer.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism When someone condemns a persons sexuality and life over something that is not a moral matter that's disgusting all right. You believing that two people of the same gender sleeping together is unnatural is false since you find it in nature, I wouldn't call it disgusting but I would call it ignorant. However, when you openly condemn it AND support a group the pushes a hate filled message against said people that's disgusting.
shf84 1 year ago
@shf84 yes i have not spoken of hate. by what means do we say the actions of a sociopath are wrong then? a person who is made miserable by happiness and only finds joy in the suffering of those around them? in their heart it is right, how do we say what they are doing is wrong or immoral? because it certainly appears to be right by them. me saying that doing something is wrong is not hate, it is the opposite of hate. i am trying to help ease the confusion.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism Makes no difference how you spin it. Your supporting a group that is spreading a hateful homophobic message.
shf84 1 year ago
@shf84 that is a very convenient explanation. i speak sound reasoning and you use words to demean a message without fully understanding it. i am the one with flawed logic right? yet you continue to illustrate the fact that you can not make a point without using demeaning terms, which i have used none. yet somehow i am on the side of hate? where is your logic and understanding? are you supposed to be on the side of reasoning and understanding according to you? i spin nothing. i speak simple truth
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@shf84 so you are saying you would let a friend drown rather then call him a bad swimmer by saving him? lol how do you not perceive the error in the understanding that saying something is wrong is hate and homophobic? dont you even understand what you are say? rather then addressing the issue you rely on name calling to support your validations...i really dont see how i can make clearer the holes in your logic...i just dont understand hating someone enough to let them destroy themselves.....
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism Bad analogy spin doctor. Being a bad swimmer or not is a simple fact. To compare being gay to being a bad swimmer who might drown just doesn't hold up . Nothing is going to happen to you if your gay being gay is not being flawed or being bad at something it's being gay. The fact that you equate it with being bad or self destructive shows an underlying homophobia.
shf84 1 year ago
@shf84 great analogy. that is a matter of your opinion, that you cant state without calling me names in an attempt to make your side look better, doesnt that make you what you are calling me? lol the analogy is only stating that they are doing something wrong, and need help, not that they are bad at life. so it is wrong for us to saying that lying and murder is wrong? because murder is key to survival of the fittest, what gives us the right to say it is wrong?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism Lies and murder hurt innocent people. Being gay hurts no one. Saying that being gay is wrong is wrong in it's self. It is not based on moral logic of any kind but bigotry. As to calling you names; you look at THAT video and you turn around and make excuses for THAT? And you wonder why you get called names? WTF?
shf84 1 year ago
@shf84 so people dont kill themselves because of confused emotions? aids didnt get it s massive start from gay bath houses in america? people that believe being gay is wrong arent getting prosecuted in america for speaking out against it? even though we are supposed to have free speech. no you are calling me names because you must assert your dominance otherwise your argument crumbles because there is no logic behind it.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism They kill them selves because they are continually harassed and rejected by bigots. Aids got it's start because people had unprotected sex, that has nothing to do with weather they are gay or strait. We have free speech but if you spew hate other people have free speech as well and will exorcise it (likely against you) Your view of gays is deeply colored by bias, and you say I have no logic?
shf84 1 year ago
@shf84 no. they kill themselves because they are confused. i say you have no logic because you are speaking backwards. so it is ok to spew hate against christian people but it isnt ok to tell someone they are doing something wrong if they are? where does that end? what right to we have to say murder is wrong? survival of the fittest right? we it d be easier to feed my family if i just took what we needed, how do you or anyone have the right to tell me that is wrong? but i cant saythatbeinggayis?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
No, they kill themselves because they are driven to suicide by persecution at the hands of hate mongers and bigots. It is you who have it backwards. As to logic which one of us thinks some guy raised the dead and walked on water. You shouldn't even be mentioning logic. Were the universe fair the word would turn to molten lead in your mouth.
shf84 1 year ago
I prefer to hate against the xtian religion actually (for a vile and disgusting system of beliefs it is) and those who would force it off on innocent people.
Yes is is ok to tell someone they are doing wrong if in fact they actually are. To tell someone they are doing wrong because you don't happen to like what they are doing is however, wrong in it's self.
shf84 1 year ago
@shf84 so reaching into a lake to save your friend from drowning would be hatred towards him? because you are claiming to be a better swimmer then he? really a bold assumption of my understanding is what validates that i am the one spewing hate on something that i know nothing about? i am the one that has it backwards...? lol
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism You already used that analogy It still doesn't work. Being gay is not going to hurt the person, should you try to "save" them from being gay your just sticking your nose into their personal life where it has no business. Their simply is no good reason behind your idea that gay = wrong.
shf84 1 year ago
@shf84 there are plenty of reasons. the only time gay sex occurs in nature is when one animal is trying to assert its dominance over another one, is this the reason gay people have sex with each other? so it is ok to say that being gay is unnatural. even if evolution is what brought us to be, especially if that is the case because it would go against the very nature of natural selection, stifling humans ability to progress, so if not from free will given by God being twisted,fromwheredoesitcome?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism :
Since when has a porno taught hate??
edmacdaddy 1 year ago 14
@edmacdaddy how did i say that porno was what was teaching hate? only that it teaches perversion.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@edmacdaddy As a non theist, I agree that using scare tactics to frighten children into christianity is deplorable. However, I would disagree with your assertion that porn does not teach hate. Most mainstream porn that I've watched was blatantly mysogynistic.
apathag 1 year ago
Teaching hate, fear, and ignorance is a "positive message"?
greydrow 1 year ago
@greydrow in what way is christianity teaching hate fear and ignorance?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
Positive message being you might go to hell?
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 no. positive message being you dont have to and you can live your life free of the pain involved with sin. taking one single thing and isolating it doesnt make your claim against it right. i could say based on your response that you are the one sending people to hell, but that doesnt make it right. is it a bad thing when a parent corrects a child? why are you trying to make punishment the enemy rather then the action that causes it?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism That's the sinister thing with religion. It sells the sickness and the supposed cure. This is vile and immoral. I cannot send anyone to hell, I wouldn't be foolish or wicked enough to even invent such as place.
No, it is not wrong when parent correct their children, but you do no do that with the fear of hell...and parents are not always right, and respect to authority should be earned, not come automatically as in the commandments.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 lol you speak in reverse and accuse religion of doing it. how can you not understand that the creator of all has all respect. it is Him that wrote the very laws of this concept you use to try to discredit Him. He is wicked for inventing hell? so people that find pleasure in murdering children and raping people dont deserve to burn for eternity? you think they should have some lesser fate and yet it is religion that is sinister? i dare say you need look at your heart.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
Hell? No, no one does? Why not make humans better. Some are born psychopaths, it is not their own fault. And many are dragged into wars and other bad stuff by others. Heart? It has no emotions, it's a muscle. If I create a robot and it does bad things, whos fault is it? The manufacturer! If I build a house and it collapses? Is the fault of the material or the one(s) who made it? The latter. It's not me who discredits him, if he exists then it his own doing. watch?v=p_nqySMvkcw
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 the only thing that makes humans bad is that we have freewill. He does not want zombies that follow blindly He wants us to choose Him. your examples are completely wrong because inanimate objects are not made with freewill. bad things happen because people choose to do bad things. if people are sucked into war they dont want to be in and are killed, it is not God's fault, it is the fault of those starting the fight. do we blame the judge for the criminal being punished?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism There is no such thing as free will. It is somewhere inbetween.
Even by being born human a lot of what you are has already been decided for you.
Sorry, but the design argument holds, if you design something and it collapses then the fault lies with the manufacturer. Gods design if the bible is true results into most people entering hell. That's a faulty factory.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 lol i love how you just repeating what you said, which i have shown to clearly make no sense at all, is your return argument. you know that you are wrong and are to full of pride to admit it?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
Yes, you know just as you know there is a god..sigh
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 so this is your concession? lol
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 if there is no such thing as freewill then why can people kill other people? the design flaws you speak of are freewill's impact on our lives. and yet you are blind...?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
Again, simply by being a human most of the code is written on what you will be. Genetics has a lot to say, and if I had true will I would change a lot of things about myself to make it better (easy). Can I with my free will choose when to die? How fast to age? No, all that has been done "for" me...
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 yes you can choose when to die and how fast you age. lifestyle defines a great deal of how quickly you age or when you die. this is scientifically proven not just spoken in the bible. are you saying stress doesnt add to the bodies age? stress in the physical and non physical sense? yes choices you make make life easier. how do you not see through your own sarcasm?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
Here's a question. If you were god, and could create everything, would you create diseases and hell? And since these things exists, how would you view a politician with same powers as god who didn't intervene to stop things like that? My guess is very poorly, but god get's away with everything. Big brother is not great.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 i would do it exactly as God did. it is not His fault we choose to rebel against Him. but i would certainly not simply make all the choices for my creation, then they would just be zombies were there no choice. so why would i want respect from the creation i have forced to respect me? that is just silly. you would take away all things perceived as bad by the creation eliminating all choices? so youre saying you dont want freewill not that it doesnt exist.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
And btw, since you're clearly religious I cannot describe as having liberty since you got an entire book which tells you what you must believe in, how you should behave...and it doesn't even end with death.
Design flaws..so it is because free will that millions of people are born with birth defects? Some so harch they won't survive long and some triggered years later when one single gene can activate various diseases? Was your god drunk when he was engineering?
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 i dont choose to believe in the book? where do you come up with this stuff? no one forced me to make the choice to believe in God. it was my exercised freewill to go against the popular vote and believe in God. yes it is because of freewill that people are born with birth defects. what you see as a bad thing God sees as a judge of character. i would consider myself blessed to have a child that requires closer attention but your disdain for life will not allowyoutoseethewisdominthis.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism study after study shows that most people adapt their parents beliefs and/or society, they adapt societal norms mostly subconsciously.
Based on pure geographical knowledge one can be almost certain that a person believes in one thing and not the other. Born in India? Probably a hindu. Born in USA, probably xtian.
What distain for life? It is not me who is god who makes sure that everything is doomed to die. I didn't give them diseases, your god did, not just the good cosy stuff.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 lol so where are atheist from? haha those studies are wrong, there are christians all over the world, there are hindus all over the world, there are atheist all over the world. there are also many studies that show that people often raised christian reject it when faced with worldly views and vice versa. there is no absolute when it comes to human interaction with environment, it is purely based the the individual's interpretation of what happens. i was raised nonchristian,yetiam.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism There aren't so many atheists...because giving the wrong answer to the god question can often even today be a suicide at least socially. That's how accepting many of you religious people are. So millions stay closeted.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 is this comment a joke? making fun of God is the new black. everything on tv, pastors that stand on street corners, having moral values when it comes to sex and respect, these things are mocked openly. in what way is it hard to reject faith in God? you are joking arent you?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
Religion is belly laughs and blasphemy is a victimless crime.
I cannot imagine a deity as the bumbling fool as he is pictured in the bible and other holy scriptures, which speak against each other btw. You cannot all be right but you could all be wrong.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 and what happens if i am wrong? i die and nothing. but what happens if you are wrong? then you will stand before a God you spent your life mocking...?? really worth the risk? to live a life free of bad things that can happen as a result of your actions for the sake of pleasing a just God, rather then living a life of pain because of bad choices and negative reactions to this? in what way is faith in God a bad thing?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism It's hard to get along with people like you because none of us could possibly take you seriously. You believe in a God unquestioningly who doesn't follow his own example.
Thou shalt not kill? Oops, there go the first born sons of Egypt.
They had pagan beliefs and enslaved the jews so therefore those sons of bitches deserved the 10 plagues? Oops, there goes human equality.
It's all about Christians, and fundamentalism is moral because it just is, isn't it?
Explain that.
whippersnippingprick 1 year ago
@whippersnippingprick so instead of presenting an intelligent argument you simply mock what you dont understand? and yet it is hard to take me serious? and what about the fact that atheists claim to be the free thinkers? unless of course that means you have to accept the idea of a God figure in heaven...???
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism First of all, I'm not an atheist. I'm an agnostic. To believe there is no God requires the same patterns as believing there is a God.
Second, Why would I mention something without even the slightest understanding of it? Did I ever tell you I WAS a Christian?
Third, if I were to mock something, I would have been saying 'FUCK YOU CHRISTIAN ASSHOLE, YOUR BELIEF SUCKS, THERE IS NO GOD, YOU'RE FUCKED IN THE HEAD AND YOUR BELIEFS ARE FULL OF SHIT' instead of what I recently said.
whippersnippingprick 1 year ago
@whippersnippingprick so what is the dif between an agnostic and an atheist again? and you were def mocking, only that you didnt use so much anger..which really just makes it seem slightly more sad. you were never a christian. to be truly christian and to know the holy spirit would not allow your heart to grow so dark, and in mocking the things you did you showed your lack of understanding, so my statement was not unfounded.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism While both choose not to follow Christian text, Agnostics don't choose to believe whether a God ultimately exists or not, primarily because they are uncertain, whereas Atheists believe there is no God, full stop.
2. Maybe I wasn't the type of Christian as per your interpretation but nevertheless I used to follow God, I used to follow Jesus, but those days are history.
3. Why do I feel the need to criticize you if I may not be right? Because YOU may not be right either.
whippersnippingprick 1 year ago
@whippersnippingprick i understand the fundamental difference between an atheist and and agnostic, but the factual dif is that there is no dif. both do not follow God. as an atheist one simply rejects God, at this is choosing a side, as an agnostic you simply sit on the fence rather then choosing a side, this is the cause of a great deal of confusion and adds only to indifference causing nothing but backwards walking, to the point there is no point foryoutodebateanyofthiscauseyousimplydontcare.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism 2 (again) I choose to debate because like I said, YOU may not be correct either, and my nature to not care is overpowered by whenever Christians make it seem like we're not equal.
3 (again) Like I said also, since God knows all (and probably remembers all as well), nobody could ever take back the things they have done, past, present or future. Therefore, there never was any real atonement. To have anything to do with God, we have to BE like God. But we're not and won't ever be.
whippersnippingprick 1 year ago
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whippersnippingprick 1 year ago
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@idunno123ism Fourth, in a way, yeah maybe I do feel I got to criticize you because you seem like one of those fundamentalists who associates intelligent arguments, morality, and meaning of life only with Christian text and values, and all other ideas can just go to Hell. Any Muslim living in a cave in Afghanistan can feel the same about you and your beliefs, so that means neither one of you are correct let alone special in any way. There are many problems in faith, and even the smallest count.
whippersnippingprick 1 year ago
@whippersnippingprick so by your sense of logic, nothing is right nor wrong. so even you are wrong and have no argument? so why do you feel the need to criticize christian fundamentalist specifically? if everyone got it wrong why waste your time on this one specifically? you can not judge a faith by those in the public eye that say they follow it. you must actually know something about it. in what way is punishing the egyptians for what they did against human equality?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism 4. The Egyptians? It's just an example. Since God made all equally sinful, and since God only sees humankind equal only in respect to sin, God broke his own rules taking sides with mortal Moses. With or without Jesus, no matter how faithful you are, no matter how sorry you are, no matter how well you act for or against God, you can't take back what you do. According to God, so all knowing and divine, one already sins being born, and that having the potential to sin is just as bad.
whippersnippingprick 1 year ago
@whippersnippingprick your entire argument is simply wrong, there are many ways for man to atone for sin in the old testament, before Jesus, moreover, God did not create man sinful, God created man perfect and we chose to reject what He taught us we should do, God didnt create sin simply because He gave us a choice. if He took our choice away and there was no sin, you would hate Him for forcing us to follow and giving us no free thought. and God favored His chosen people, where does itsayHewont?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
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whippersnippingprick 1 year ago
@idunno123ism 1 (again). Nobody is free who has some 'great' lord to tell them what is right and what is wrong. Freedom and submission don't co exist, or the purpose of individual freedom is defeated. You sound like one of those guys who is really trying to say 'It's all about God, and I don't care what he did, he made us, so we must always serve him, and that's that.' Oh, and if God forced us to love him and there were no freedom, there really would be no hate and there would be no Hell either.
whippersnippingprick 1 year ago
@whippersnippingprick everyone is free to do what they want, that doesnt mean there arent consequences for doing stuff that is wrong. you think that it takes our freedom to have rules like not to murder or lie or sleep around? name one good thing that comes from doing any of the things we arent supposed to do according to God's laws. if we follow God our lives are made easier, you act like it is some burden to do the right thing, it is our freedom in it s purest form when we do what is right.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism If you consider in the Bible that even God put millions of people to death despite telling us not to kill, that doesn't sit well with me. I don't want my morality coming from God. My feelings have told me it's wrong to kill. I suppose then it all came down to some guys with a convincing story to tell us otherwise and make a billion dollar industry out of it. The same guys who wrote that it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for rich men to go to Heaven?
whippersnippingprick 1 year ago
@whippersnippingprick God only told one people to kill one other people and it was the jewish people to completely get rid of the palestine because God saw that they were evil and would persecute the jewish people through out history if they did not, and look what happened because the jewish people did not listen to God and do as they were told. you dont see the logic in the eye of the needle story? in what way dont you see how strong that sense of logic is? a man that haseverythingneedsnothing.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism Oh, here we go again. You forgetting the flood? 40 days and 40 nights of vicious terrible rain sent by who now? Does any of that ring a bell?
Besides which, I told you I'm done I'm not going to bother arguing with some guy who goes 'The law of God is good no matter what, disobedience is the ultimate sin, just ask the Jews. Either do it God's way or you going to hell!' That's a retard's way of thinking.
There's no understanding, so for the last time, have a nice day.
Bye.
whippersnippingprick 1 year ago
@whippersnippingprick so your logic dictates if someone disagrees with you, you simply ignore it and it stops mattering? how do you learn anything? you speak of God as the bad one with a wicked heart and yet you can not see past your own disdain...?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism The last thing I will ever say to you is this: The God of the Bible is a moral monstrosity. If he was so perfect and had everything, he wouldn't have wasted his time creating us to begin with.
Lastly, I never said doing the right thing is a burden. I feel glad teaching my young 4 year old neighbour how to tie his shoelaces because it certainly keeps him safer than prayer.
So really, I don't know if God is real, but it would be better for his reputation if he weren't.
Bye.
whippersnippingprick 1 year ago
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whippersnippingprick 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 cont. christian. God did not create bad things, people and satan made bad things through changes to all the good tools God gave us to live. it is our freewill and interaction that has made need for these things. you blame the parent for punishing the child? or the judge for the murderer going to jail. again you speak backwards and yet dont see it some how.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism Sorry, but if you create everything then you create all the bad things as well, including diseases, death, original sin (wicked), hell, earthquakes, non-livable land, famine.
You cannot just pick and choose. If jesus could heal a cripple then he could heal all mankind, but he didn't, nor does his father. God made human fragile, a bump in the head in the wrong way and entire personality might be altered. In child birth, how many thousands of mothers have died? This is poor design.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 no God did not create bad things, He gave us freewill and we used what He created to make bad things happen. if you tell your child not to run but he continues to run even while you tell him he will get hurt and he slips and get hurt, did you make him fall and get hurt? it is not poor design we were created perfect and chose to rebel against God therefore we are punished. child birth? you brought up something so specifically addressed in the bible without knowing?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
Really, so who created diseases? Where did they come from?
If we are perfect then how come we use trillions each to battle diseases?
3 minutes without oxygen and humans suffer brain damage, what kind of design is that? A friend's child was born without the left hand, why is that. Is it because of the free will of the child? He was never asked... and so it is with anything.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 they come from sins influence over our lives. no it is not because of the freewill of the child, sometimes some people's freewill causes harm to other people. if everyone that did anything bad that hurt others were forced to obey certain rules of living without any choice, freewill would be stopped. if it is taken from even those that choose to do bad with it its very existence becomes meaningless. so you are saying we shouldnt have children cause if they do anythingbaditisourfault?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
I a child cannot decide, nor can a parent decide which genes he or she will pass along to their children. This has a source, and it is a very problematic question for you to answer. I think you religions should work hard on getting gods mistakes nullified, we need to cure diseases.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 so making bad decisions like smoking cigs and a child picking us the habit, or living an unhealthy lifestyle, that children emulate, such as overeating or sleeping around which are our leading cause of passed down "genetic" diseases has no affect? making good healthy decisions is pointless? then why does anyone do it? you truly believe that a large part of our disease is simply genetic? if this is the way most scientist think, no wonder disease spreads so rampant.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 can you read genesis chapter 3? we were created to endure no pain in giving birth. created to be perfect it is our actions against God that caused these things to be. how can you not see cause and consequence is not the fault of the judge but the one committing the offense?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
Again, what you state is a perfect example of created sick and commanded to be healthy. Even the invention of original sin is LOL because he puts his own incompetence on his own creation, they'll have to suffer because of his mistakes while all he had to do is to go back to the drawing board. How can a deity be so incompetent in placing a forbidden tree in the eden? That's extremely poor parenting especially considering all the super powers he has.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 how do you not understand that God wanted us to have minds to choose Him or against Him? how is this a lacking? that we arent zombies that have no choice, instead a being with cognitive thought that can choose. that is poor parenting? so parents should eliminate all choices for their children and never give them a chance to define their character through life's test? you try to spin everything so that it is the creator's fault for the actions of the creation,this is simply not so.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
Actually he demands that we have no others by his side. So again, I think he should work harder on wiping out all those other religions if he has anything sort of a decent morality and wants to actually save them. Or perhaps he enjoys their torment? A lot ends there and he does nothing. This isn't good. But it is easy to understand if we take him out of the picture and dare to admit that he probably doesn't exist or the very least doesn't give a fuck.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 again, if people can not decide to go against God there is no freewill. then we would all simply be mindless slaves and that is not what God wants. He wants us to have the strength of character to choose Him in the face of adversity. if He willed it to be so he could re-write all of existence and changed everything to simply be perfect, but who likes a movie without a protagonist and an antagonist? simply because some choose not to follow is no reason totakethefreewillofthosethatdo.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
Again, what you state is a perfect example of created sick and commanded to be healthy. Even the invention of original sin is LOL because he puts his own incompetence on his own creation, they'll have to suffer because of his mistakes while all he had to do is to go back to the drawing board. How can a deity be so incompetent in placing a forbidden tree in the eden? That's extremely poor parenting especially considering all the super powers he has.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 if someone uses a hammer for killing someone, do you blame the person that made the hammer?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
Depends. Some people are born defective, psychopaths. They are difficult to blame.
If someone claims that God has told them to kill, who do you blame? God asks at least in the OT to wipe out entire cities. And xtians produced 2 world wars. Is this because of god? And if god demands human sacrifice, would you obey?
Fact is, if a factory made so many malfunctioning people it would face bankruptcy. This is not good design and you I believe know this.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 God asked the jewish people to wipe out the palestine because God new they were evil and would always be evil, but the jewish people didnt do it and they suffer even to this day for not doing so. do you think it was wrong to stop hitler? that we should have just let him live out his life and not interfere? God would never demand human sacrifice. so you are posing a mute point. again you repeat inanimate object point, that is no point no matter how many times you say it.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
God asks for genocide? This is what you worship? What a source of immorality.
No, I don't think it was wrong to stop Hitler. My question is why didn't God do that? He could have given Hitler a disease (bless this invention) and he would never have gained power. But your god allowed WWII to happen, perhaps he even approved? Some say this is how god got the israelis back to israel. Couldn't think of anything better?
Human sacrifice? No? Then why the Jesus idea?
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 God asked for the genocide of one people in the bible, the Palestinians, and the jewish people didnt do it, and look how they suffer even to this day for not obeying. because God gives us the ability to manage ourselves. hitler was stopped wasnt he? hitler did not take over the world and kill everyone he wanted to, if there was no God people like him would never be stopped because there would be no positive influence on the world.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
Sigh, it's their own voice they are hearing. Hitler's actions wiped out 60 million or so people. God could have made him a recipient of a bullet during WWI. If he is all knowing and all wise he must have seeing this coming.
watch?v=G5JtxrR6msg
Even if god asked for one single genocide (that's enough for me) and he is unworthy of human respect. We have enough trouble as it is without god demanding people to make things more bloody.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 sigh back at you, if God takes the freewill of one person He defeats the entire point of giving us freewill. look at who hitler most targeted. the jewish people, to this day the jewish people suffer because they in large reject Jesus, hitler is evidence of God and Jesus if he is anything at all. genocide? what entire race of people is dead because of hitler? not one. it was stopped when man stepped up and took care of it. God does not clean our messes. it is ourjob.howdoyoublamehim?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
He gives people this option, follow me and you'll be blissful. But you can choose otherwise as well, but they're all bad, extremely bad, more than the word bad can describe. This is not free will. And against my free will I age, I forget things which I do not want to forget, I get sick, I'll die..countless examples.
This is treating people worse than labrats. As for jesus, most people will never ever even have chance to reject Jesus, they still haven't been indoctrinated into it.
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 in what way is Jesus living a perfect life then being murdered by the people he came to save God's fault? the people had a person among them performing miracles and changing people's lives, at any time humanity could have followed him. instead people choose greed and power and kill him because they did not want accountability for their actions, Jesus did have to die. people could have accepted him, instead they turned on him, freewill, not God's fault.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism
Seems to me the part of the plan was getting Jesus killed so that mankind could be saved, forgiven or whatever. If God had an IQ over 80 he could simply not have bothered, because he must have known about other religions and how just bloody this divisiveness would turn into.
As for performing miracles, turning water into wine but also the better ones like healing a cripple... I think this idea should be expanded upon..
The already had religions and own gods with own accountability
Hirnlego999 1 year ago
@Hirnlego999 but if God took the choices away, there would be no free will. it is not God's fault for allowing us to make choices that we make bad ones. that s like saying we shouldnt drive cars because we could get into an accident.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism Yes you missed something.
Colinski03 1 year ago
@Colinski03 very well thought out educated response. if you have nothing to add please dont try. this is a pretty big discussion. all you are doing is discrediting your side with little quirky attempts at insult.
idunno123ism 1 year ago
Nicely done! Thanks for sharing!
julzabro 1 year ago
This is why people who can think for themselves often find themselves unable to relate to "christians". These kinds of tactics essentially only confuse and scare young children and teenagers, which I'm sure Jesus LOVES! Poor Jesus...it's always the crazy people who speak for him.
Jake4992002 1 year ago
he ceases to argue about god who has found god within
vinculum479 1 year ago
This is just sick as fuck, sick as fuck
shf84 1 year ago 6
@shf84 really? but porn, and violence in movies for the sake of entertain rather then moral lessons is ok right? lol
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism Violence in movies and pornography is for entertainment purposes. This however is closer to a kkk rally where the message is to hate someone. This is not meant as entertainment this, is meant to convey a hate filled message.
shf84 1 year ago
@shf84 you dont think watching pornogrophy and violence on a regular basis, especially for entertainment when we are relaxing our minds and bodies, changes our perspective at all? simulated violence and sexual deviance doesnt affect our minds in the same way? really?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism Maybe some people who have issues with it. If there is an effect it's purely incidental. Unlike listening to hate filled ideology about stoning gays and women submitting to men. Also what is sexual "deviance"
shf84 1 year ago
@shf84 you are right about women be subject. that is wrong. we are equals, no where in the new testament, the part christianity is based on, the rest is human history lessons, does it say that it is to be man over woman. sexual deviance is a whole list of things. pornogrophy, sleeping with many partners, being gay, sex outsides of life long bond. you think it is a coincidence that people that only sleep with 1 person have no health problems because of sex, ever?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@shf84 and to say that nothing bad has ever happened from anyone being gay is willful ignorance. aids would not be as strong as it is in america right now if it werent for gay group sex parlors in the 80's, i dont know how else to illustrate this? what will it take to see the error of our ways as humans and let go of our foolish pride?
idunno123ism 1 year ago
@idunno123ism what you call sexual deviance I just call sex. People have been engaging in those kind of acts since our species evolved. It's not deviant, it's the norm. Some practices spread disease but that doesn't make them deviant it makes them stupid maybe but nothing more. To say that someone being gay causes aids is just ignorant and based on bigotry not logic, not all