Like the animals we have an anus and genitals, so we poo and pee like them and when we drop the front we even couple like them. The only difference between us and the animals is that we walk upright, can put intricate intelligent sentences into each others brains via speech and build rockets to the moon etc. All the religions have their "pretty books of promise" yet the cripples, and the blind of ALL religions stay blind or stay stuck in their wheelchairs and no "god" is there to CURE them all.
@TEDOVSKY Spot on the money sir (or madam). There is only one reason that people believe in religion and that is they cannot handle the fact that life is finite. By being religious they think they are earning frequent flyer points towards eternal life. I have had renal cancer and I know only too well that if it returns then I'm for the 'big jump'. But so what, there's nothing new about dying and it only happens once. Life is for living so go ahead and live it...
Whenever I watch videos on here putting forward a particular religious view I always look at the comments... Proves for good reading! No fucker can keep their opinions to themselves on here! Haha
You really cannot be so dishonest as to say that atheism is not a political stance. Of course it is. It is nothing less than a political statement and a political stance. If any of these regimes were not athistic how do you think they would have been able to pervert human nature so completely that they could murder millions of men, women and children by describing them as enemies.
@22grena ''how do you think they would have been able to pervert human nature so completely that they could murder millions of men, women and children by describing them as enemies.''
The replication of preceeding leader worhip that the Russiand were conditioned into for Stalin, the quazi religous nonsense of Nazism, the almighty powerful infallible figure that is Mao. State religons and leader worship have nothing to do with a individual not believing in God.
@moroney1 I dont mean to sound condescending but your reply is not well written or properly thought through.
Without a framework or by doing away with a moral framework these dictators who were therefore amoral were able to destroy anyone they preceived to be their enemies or the enemy of their ideology without conscience.
He is right about Catholicism but he does not know why he is right, his views about my "Imaginary Friends" is going to be alot different real shortly.
For all you doubters out there let me prove it to you.
Go look up quantum mechanics "the measurement problem". I doubt any of you aethists are intelligent enough to understand and that is OK because GOD deserves the best, not the weak of mind and unfaithful.
@thewobbl Sorry but I always raise an eyebrow when someone thinks they are so above the squabbles of ordinary people that they think we need to be told how superior they feel.
Answering a question with a question is also pretty weak.
I don't mind anyone believing in anything they want no matter how stupid it is just don't knock on my fucking door and tell me a a lot of sh1t. God did this God did that fuck off
I'm a Christian and I don't think for one second that the world is 4,000 years old. I think it's millions of years old. So please cut me from the herd ya think I'm in. Lol. Child abuse goes on in many places, but for the church to practically allow it is an atrocity. I think it's worse when it's in a religious setting, because that's one place you think you'd be safe. Not so. Don't be sheeple, people. Feel free to worship and trust God, NOT MAN. Mankind will always fail.
As Billy said, You can't take c*nts like that seriously, the Yanks voted that Bush cu*t in not once but TWICE, Sarah Palin thinks that the Dinosaurs existed only 4000 years ago and the world is only 6000 years old...
@segano1 And the saint Obama continued almost all of Bush's war policies since he has been elected. This video speaking of brainwashing and reality, it must be hard to realize all of you lefties have been living in fantasy land the past decade. It is going to be even funnier when Obama either backs Israel bombing Iran or does it himself because his poll numbers are in the toilet because his left wing economic programs haven't worked. Where will the left wing anti-war movement be? It disappeared.
I am far more outraged by the fact that men claiming to represent Jesus Christ, or any other religious figure, for that matter, abused children than by the fact that teachers did, or doctors did, or whatever else happened. The actions and effects may have been the same, but to be molested or raped by a man claiming to be virtuous and even Godly is a scandal which even exceeds molestation by a father of his own kids. This is what has nearly killed the Catholic Church in most of the West.
Agree with him, Roman catholics are liers and hypocrites and go back in history you wll find that they are nothing more than just plain murderers who killed thousands of innocent people in the name of religion, the pope is a bastard be it the present one or past ones.
@pagan7419 That's a ridiculos statement. Not all Catholics are liars and hypocrites. They are just humans. Of course some are, but no more or less than protestants, muslims, jews, pagans, buddhists or any group of people you care to mention.
And what part of history proves they were 'just plain murderers'?
Silly, ignorant generalisations like that breed contempt and hatred.
@mattob11 I agree with pagan7419, having been raised a catholic. I've never met such a bunch of liars, hypocrites, and deceitful thieves. Not saying others aren't like that, but it was the way the religious half of my family acted, and still do.
But they go to church everyday...and confession, so that makes it ok to screw people over I guess. Sickening bunch.
@Lawlessuk But surely you cant say they are all like that? I'm not Catholic but there are many in my family and community, and 99% of them are decent people.
It is a disgrace, the molestation of children. But, and it a big but, it happens in society as a whole. The fact it happened in a religious organisation does make it worse but % wise its not more than in other organisationsl. Not to lessen its terrible impact. I am a Catholic but I am sure if it happened to me I would feel just like Billy. Thats its terrible consequence.
@22grena Bro, listen, i appreciate the comment but police arrest peado's, these fuck heads get away with it just because they work for the church. not in my world buddy. i could sit here all day man and pick holes in what you just wrote but im hoping you will awaken from your semi-slumber!!
read what you just wrote and answer me this.....read it first.
So does everybody have to be molested to know its a bad thing?
@thewobbl Well 100% know its criminal. Its a disgrace that hierarchy hid the crime. They actually put the priest ahead of the child. If there was anything that could hurt an institution more than this I can’t imagine. The truth is they should be in jail. Priest or no priest. There can’t be a law for one and a law for another. Ordinary Catholics are disgusted as much as anyone else and obviously more I would argue.
@thewobbl Police don't arrest Peedo's.The Police arrive too late to do anything and then usually ask if the Parent or Guardian have "proof".......Knowing and proving are hemispheres apart.Sorry bub.I was a father to 2 lovely wee girls but in 2004 the police ignored EVERYTHING .They certainly Lament and Empathise but alas do not do their job very effectively.Don't even mention Social Workers.....They just turn up for a paycheck every month the useless cunts.Peedo's should be cured with a Bullet.
@22grena That's crap. Priests are different from other people, because they present themselves as benevolent authorities. It's a misuse of power. It's not only adult against child but adult that is trusted and believed above and beyond the child against child.
Rather to be molested by a total stranger than by someone who is known to and deferred to by your parents and acknowledged in your community as near saintly.
It's the breach of trust & the hypocrisy that gets me.
@22grena It may have happened in other organizations but you must consider the context. The catholic church professes itself as the foundation of morality and as a result it must bare the criticism it receives when a scandal as widespread is exposed. Billy has a real point here when he refers to focusing on the how rather than the why. The advances in science are inescapable for theists, not to mention the fact that there is no evidence for the existance of any divine being in the first place.
@MagicDara (1) I totally agree with your first point, as they totally got it wrong. (2) Science doesnt disprove religion and in fact more forward thinking churches dont disagree with such things as for instance evolution. (3) There is no evidence for atheism either.
@22grena Science does disprove religion as evolution accounts for the diversity of life and the big bang accounts for the beginning of the universe. Saying God did it is a non answer-there is no evidence to back it up.I am aware that religion has many more functions. It comforts people + gives them hope etc. But if something makes you feel good that doesn't mean it exists. Atheism doesn't claim anything thus no evidence is required, it is a rejection of theistic claims due to lack of evidence.
@MagicDara Science doesn’t disprove the existence of God as any Scientist will tell you. The Catholic Church for instance has no problem with evolution or the Big bang theory as they are quite compatible with the belief in a creator. You seem to be trying to find facts to back up your belief in the same way you accuse others. Your statements also make no sense 'Atheism doesn't claim anything thus no evidence is required' really? I though atheists claim there is no God?
@22grena To clarify, when I say science disproves religion I mean that it disproves many of its claims.Technically speaking u cant disprove the existence of anything e.g Santa. But it is a very poor argument to suggest that God exists simply because science cant 100% disprove it. That situation results in the belief of all things. I trust u dont believe in the easter bunny? Atheists REJECT the claim of the existence ofGod due to lack of evidence. *Rejecting a claim isn't the same as making one *
@MagicDara If there is no evidence either way then you should be an agnostic. If there is no evidence either way yet you still insist there is no God, which atheists do, then you are simply following your own fundementalist beliefs.
@22grena I didnt say there is no evidence either way I said there is no evidence for a God and that science has explained many things that religions used to claim were as a result of Gods eg human origins. The default position in relation to a claim without evidence either way isnt agnosticism. Are you agnostic about Santa or the tooth fairy? Probability must be part of the argument. Atheists dont insist anything, they reject claims thus far and are willing to change their minds with evidence.
@22grena One after thought: Fundamentalists are not willing to change their minds. Therefore your characterization of atheists as fundamentalists is extremely inaccurate. Remember atheists reject theistic claims based on lack of evidence, therefore if evidence became available for the existence of a god they would change their minds. Fundamentalists dont change their minds.
@MagicDara Fundementalists are human beings and human beings change their minds, Please answer my point -If there is no evidence either way yet you still insist there is no God, which atheists do, then you are simply following your own fundementalist beliefs.
@22grena There is no evidence either that Allah or Zeus exist, but I'm sure you are an atheist to them. Why? Becasue if an individual makes an extrordinary claim of existence it must be backed up by extrordinary evidence. If not, then there is no reason to believe. IF i claimed that the Buddha reached Nirvanna you wouldnt have to disprove it to not believe because the onus of proof is on the one claiming something exists
@moroney1 First, you cannot be called an atheist if you believe in God, whether Allah or Zeus. A clue to how people believe is found in the word, faith. They believe because they believe that what a man said 2,000 or 1400 years ago is true.
You say religion must prove its claims but as an atheist you don't have to prove yours. So as you claim there is not God the onus must also be on you to prove it.
@22grena U are misunderstanding atheism and the principles of basic burden of proof. 1) Athiests don't claim there is no God, they simply reject claims thus far due to no evidence. Rejecting a claim is not the same as making one. 2) The burden of proof is on those making a claim. The default position is disbelief until sufficient evidence is provided. Hope this helps.
@MagicDara I appreciate your explanation and I see it is your definition of atheism but it is not all atheists definition of their belief, especially the miltant fundementalsit atheists that are beginning to emerge and get so much airtime. Personally I really have no problem with anyones views about religion. I dont care if you dont believe. But when my beliefs is attacked and you have no evidence to refute it then I have a problem because it just abuse.
@22grena I agree that there are atheists who insist there is no God and who say that religion is a bad thing, but these views are more in line with anti-theism than atheism. Militant fundementalsit atheists?This is nonsense. If this is true I would like to see some hard evidence, not just some crack pot conspiracy theory. There is no 'attacking' going on here. Billy is stating the facts about molestation in the church. U perceive it as an attack because ones religion is rarely questioned.
@MagicDara Please take off your atheist glasses because it filters out all the information you subconsciosly delete. The Catholic Church is constantly attached every day in the media, even before the child abuse scandal. I live in the UK and most of the prominent atheists are English. What they seem to not understand and ignore is that their attacks, which are vicious, are mainly felt by immigrant communities, which is feeding racism. They are attacking the cultural identites.
@22grena 1) U have avoided my challenge to provide some hard evidence for the existence of Militant fundementalsit atheists. 2) Religion in general is criticized in the media e.g Islam is continuously mentioned in relation to terrorism etc. Why should catholicism be exempt from critique? 3) There are no vicious attacks in the Uk or anywhere? Atheists aren't killing, fighting, or injuring religious believers. They are merely voicing their opinions. 4) Speaking against a religion isn't racism
@MagicDara Racists are using a fear of religion eg Islam (it was historically catholicism) as a cover for their racism. People like Dawkins are feeding it. Ireland doesnt have large immigrant communities like the UK and therefore you are not aware of the problem there. When I said attacks I didnt say it was physical but it is psychological and damaging. Religion is cultural for many immigrants (also irish) so by attacking and belittleing their religion you are attacking their cultural identity.
@22grena Whether or not racists are using the fear of religion (eg Islam) as a cover for their views is irrelevant. What has that got to do with Atheists? Atheists are not spreading fear or promoting racism. They have a single view on a single topic, that being the rejection of the claim that God exists. Prominent atheists like Dawkins are not feeding racist ideas, they are promoting the idea that one can have a life without religion. In fact it is religion that encourages segregation and fear.
@MagicDara You need to remove your atheist ear muffs too. Where do you get this idea that atheistic beliefs are benign. Hundreds of millions of people were killed by those ideas in the twentieth century. Hitler,Stalin, Mao ring a bell with you. Dawkins may not be intending to increase racism but he is. He is a militant fundementalist atheist. He dosen't care about the damage he does to immigrant communities in every country.
You have the same argument that Scots unionists use against Catholics.
@22grena How dare u assert that Mao,Stalin etc did what they did because of their atheism. There is no logical pathway from atheism to murder. Why would Stalin murder people because of a lack of belief in God? Stalin had a mustache too, does that mean people with mustaches are more likely to murder? Religious people on the other hand DO have a logical pathway to murder. Does the crusades or 9/11 ring any bells?Those people murdered in the name of their faith. Hitler by the way was a catholic.
@MagicDara 'How dare you' Bit of a drama queen? Their atheism fed directly into their lack of humanity. The Crusades is a poor argument as it was at such an early period in history as are the muslim fanatics who have a similar medievil mindset. Assuming you were once a Catholic, that screws your argument about Hitler being a Catholic, which is a weak and absurd response.
Like a lot of immpressionable people you need to read more widely and get a better sense of the human mind and spirit.
@22grena U are implying that one needs a belief inGod to have humanity. Where is ur evidence for this? I have no belief in god and I am a decent person. Stalin and Mao did what they did based on political and social motives.Their acts were not contingent upon their atheism.Nowhere in their writings have they said they killed in the name of atheism.Hitler said he was doing Gods work inMein Kampf. He referred to god in many of his speeches too.Hitler also had strong ties with the catholic church.
@MagicDara Not impying that. Atheists can b as caring as anyone i'm sure. But atheism was a fundemental part of these dictators ideology and allowed them to have no moral hinderance to mass extermination. Hitler used the word 'God' in the most abstract and loose way and is hardly a man to be credited with telling the truth to anyone. So what exactly were his ties to the RC Church?
@22grena Ur simply wrong Atheism wasn't a part of their ideas at all. Like I said there was no mention of atheism in their writings or speeches. There is no logical pathway from athiesm to murder. Why would they have no moral hinderance if they didnt believe in god? Do u really think a belief in hell is a deterrent? In 1933 the church signed a deal to live peacefully with the Nazis and their ideas. In the 90s the church apologized for failing to take action in challenging the regime.
@MagicDara To sustain your argument you have to go off at a tangent. Whats hell got to do with it? E.G. Christianity teaches peace ergo it would inhibit their violence. Don't let the facts get in the way of your argument. The fact is In 1933 the entire German people signed an agreement with the Nazi, even atheists, I dare say. I am sure the hieracrchy of the German Catholic Church was as scared by the Nazi as anyone else.
@22grena I think the Vatican are very much aware of their collusion with the Nazis since theyve already apoligised thus admitted it.I mean Hitler was so repestected by them that the Vatican forced the church to celebrate his birthday ever year.They were the first to have a treaty with the Nazis and helped many Nazis escpae to south america.It was their frequent preachings of anti semitism at the time which inspired Hitler to believe that he was exerting God's will in kiiling the jews
@moroney1 I would be interested to know what you think the Vatican could have done. The Nazis had shown their complete ruthlessness and disregard for life. Maybe you think the Vatican could have declared war on Hitlers regime?
Intellectually I am sure you know you should approach this from the point of view of evidence rather than start with a conclusion and find the evidence to fit your thesis.
@22grena I know you can say the Vatican were afriad or bullied, but even after the war was over the Vatican were still aiding Nazis in their escpae to fascist dictaterships in South America, collusion was still occuring even then. That religous hierarchey preached anti semitism until 1964!! If Htiler didnt think he could veto rationality as he was on he side of God in exterminating the Jewish people, a large chunk of the atrocites there would never have happened. Religous inspiration
@moroney1 This is exactly the point I've been trying to make. The words 'Religious inspiration' capture my point perfectly. As Richard Dawkins says there is a logical pathway from religious belief to doing bad things. Now don't get me wrong, there is also a pathway to do good things. But no such bad pathway exists for the atheist position. Nobody in other words has ever said I'm doing this wicked deed (whatever it may be) in the name of my non-belief in God. That is an illogical position.
@22grena I love how rather than continue to argue you simply ASSERT that I am refusing to respond to questions and arguments you have proposed. When in reality I have addressed every comment you have made and even asked you to re-state the questions you think I have failed to answer or ignored. Every weak argument you have made has been identified as a fallacy or illogical and when you realized you were unable to propose a valid argument you attempted the USUAL shifting of the burden of proof.
@MagicDara You are asking me what question I asked yet you know what it is. You simply want to stop the conversation we were having because you have trouble replying. If you really believe you have answered all questions etc thats fine. You havnt
@moroney1 Individual anti communist Catholics aided fleeing Nazi fugitives not the Vatican as an institution, that’s just propaganda. On the other hand the Allied governments aided and abetted the escape and employment of ex Nazi.
@22grena If this were true then the Catholic church would never have issued an official apology in the 90's. Once again in this statement you have merely asserted an opposing point of view rather than supporting it with evidence.
@MagicDara Evidence for what? I never said there was evidence for Gods existence. There is also no evidence that God does not exist. And Atheist regimes still murdered 100 million plus people in the 20th century. How many people were murdered by Religios regimes?
You really do exhibit all the characteristics of a fundementalist in your religion. The zeal of a new convert.
@22grena 1)So you think there is no evidence for god? Then why do you believe in god? And if you do think u have evidence is it rational and supported by evidence? 2) We have already discussed the fact that these regimes were motivated by political ideologies. But even if atheism was at fault (which it isn't) why does that have any bearing on your belief in god or your acceptance of a particular faith. 3) I am willing to change my mind with evidence thus by definition I am not a fundamentalist.
@MagicDara You have either a very short memory or you haven't been reading my comments and because like any fundementalist avid in his new faith you are prone to mentally delete anything that doesen't match your belief we are going in circles - which becomes boring and wasteful of time.
@22grena The statement you made was "Why do you think totaltarian regimes in France, Russia and China advocated atheism? They sought a clean slate which left them plenty of moral wriggle room. The only other totalitarian regime in Europe at this time was Catholic Spain, a brutal regime but not genocidal" They advocated atheism because totalitarianism by its very nature requires one ruler. If the people worship the commands of a divine being then the ruler's dominance is de-prioritized.
@MagicDara Even real time comparative evidence gets filtered out by your atheist glasses. They are very effective. You didnt even understand the comparison. The last part of your answer makes no sense. How does it apply to Franco's Spain which is my point.
@22grena Also, because these rulers were atheists they simply disliked religion and the dogma attached to it. Why does it matter if the spanish regime was not genocidal? it was still brutal as you admitted yourself. What u are attempting to do here is say that because these figures were atheists they committed mass murder etc. But like I have said there is no logical pathway from atheism to murder. If u think there is explain it because me and anybody else who reads this would love to hear it.
@MagicDara Its funny you ask for evidence and then delay answering and then try to avoid the unavoidable conclusion because that would contradict your fundementalist belief. The right way to go is to find the evidence first and then reach a conclusion and not the other way around.It matters because I am comparing two types of Dictatirships exsting at the same time on the same continent. One was brutal in the way of a police state. The other murdered millions of men, women and children
@22grena I perfectly understand ur point i.e. The "atheist regimes" were worse in ur opinion and i'm assuming u think that's the case because the rulers were atheists. However it is merely incidental. Ur point remains invalid until you can prove that these regimes enacted these terrible deeds in the name of their atheism. Sweden is a secular country with a secular government. Over 75% of the population are atheists yet the country is as 'normal' as Britain or Ireland. Atheism hasn't destroyed it
@MagicDara Maybe I shouldn't give you too many concepts at once as your comprehension is a little shaky.
Sweden is a modern Democracy. It is neither an atheist state nor is it a totalitarian state. So useless as a comparison.
2 totalitarian states existing at the same time. One, totalitarian Spain. Brutal as any police state but religious and Atheistic USSR which murdered millions of men, women and children. Explain why that is.
@22grena totalitarian countries are the same as religios countries. they just have an other religion or cult as a replacement. like the nazis in germany. they do the same things on a religions level depending on the people not thinking for themselfs and follow the idea. like a sect. and thats no point of arguing or diffrent opinions. its a known fact. it has been studiet scientificaly. secular or atheist countries don't worship or condemn anything out of this world thats why they don't "fight"
@swunt10 I am afraid you dont understand the difference between a secular and atheist country. A secular country is simply one which has a separation of church and state. It doesnt mean its atheist. Wrong again secular and atheist states do fight. I think you are confusing this with secular democracies, which very rarely if ever fight.
@22grena Your point is irrelevant until you demonstrate a link between the murder of these millions and atheism. Stalin was motivated by a political ideology.
@MagicDara So you still are reluctant to respond directly to the example I gave you (Spain and USSR) Please respond or I have to conclude that you just dont understand the concept. In which case my fault for not recognising that earlier and wasting a lot of time.
@22grena U are a very dishonest debater. U are attempting to finish the conversation based upon a comparison which I already responded to but u insist I haven't. But whats really funny is that (as I have shown) ur comparison is irrelevant because you haven't demonstrated a link between atheism and the extreme acts of the USSR. This debate is going in circles. I have defeated every argument you made throughout this talk but now you are asserting victory based upon a comparison that is irrelevant
@MagicDara Well I am trying to show a link but you refuse to respond. I realise now that you are just a fool or just a wind up merchant 'I have defeated every argument you made' says you. Stupid comment.
@22grena I understand and appreciate what u are trying to demonstrate but without evidence it is irrelevant. In other words u haven't demonstrated a link between atheism and the extreme acts of the USSR. What u are saying is the equivalent to saying Stalin and Hitler did what they did because they both had mustaches. If you cannot understand the fallacy u are committing then perhaps I am not explaining it well enough or u simply wish to reject it. My advice is to visit the Talk Origins website
@MagicDara Answer the question: Why didnt Franco murder millions. Why did Stalin murder millions. Both dictators existing at the same time on the same continent. What philosophy did they not have in common.
@22grena That is a spectacularly stupid argument >>> Two dictators: one killed a lot and one didn't. The one who killed a lot was an atheist therefore that is the reason he did it. Are u aware how silly you are making urself look??? U are still attempting to shift the burden of proof. U are asking me to argue against ur ASSERTION that Stalin did what he did because of his atheism. Im afraid thats not how it works. U must first demonstrate that he did it because of his atheism. Major fail
@MagicDara So explain to me why only atheist regimes murder millions of men women and children and non atheist regimes do not. You fail.onsistently to answer this question.
@moroney1 Some critic’s say Christians preach anti Semitism to this day just because of the way the Bible describes the Crucifixion. Nonsense of course because the Gospels were written by Jews about Jews. What was the religious inspiration for Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot, Chiang Kai Shek and Hedeki Tojo and the 100 million plus deaths they were responsible for?
@22grena The Vatican's anti-semtism was prominant until 1964 & influenced Croatia, Lithuania Hitler himself.He clearly states that he believes to be exerting not his will,not an anti religous will,but God's will in exterminating the Jewish people,inspired by the notion of deicied ie the jews killed God and must be punished.Those other men were inspired by another ideology, a political one and atheism isnt a politcal stance, simply lack of belief in god so you cant mesh them together ,
@moroney1 Hitler said many things he did not believe. He said them simply to fool his opponents or to gain an advantage. He said that Czeckoslovakia was his last territorial demand in Europe, he said he wanted peace. Hitler did not believe in a religion that we would recognise. His religion would be one maybe the Vikings would have liked but its not one we wouold consider to be legitimate.
@moroney1 Your whole argument is fatuous and is probably derived from your anti Christian sentiment if not your anti Catholic bias. As I have said before the Church is accused of anti semetism just because of the way the Crucifiction is described in the Bible (see the reaction to the Passion of the Christ) Also you continue to confuse what the Christian church teaches and what individuals say or do ie anti semetism, which is in direct contradiction of Christian teachibg and practice.
@moroney1 Also you must be in the minority of people who actually takes a statement from Hitler at face value to support your argument. Hitler was the connsumate liar. He had no scruples when it came to falsehood. He saw it as simply another tactic.
Hitler was in assence the opposite of a Christian in every way.
@moroney1 As I said before you are firstly talking a notorious liar at his word. Secondly Hitler used any reference to God in the most oblique way and at most in the sort of Giod worshipped by the Vikings. Hardly the type of God a Christian would worship so your comparison is facile. Atheism is a major and fundemental part of the idelaogies of Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot and many others who murdered over 100 million men,womwn and children in the 20th century. Religion didnt kill them
@22grena Would you please stop these stupid comparisons of Hitler's psychotic ideals with the Viking "God"? The Vikings did not have any particular beef with the Jews, and no they were not frothing-at-the-mouth madman barbarians whose only joy in life was killing, not any more than the other nations in Europe were in that period.
@Brynjarbjorn What amazes me about you 'Christ' bashers is your incoherence and lack of historical perspective. Hitlers beliefs if he had any (he didnt really, not in the modern sense as that would imply a morality) were definitely of the Nordic kind. What has that got to do with his hatred of Jews. He just combined the two duh. Your comment implies you are a Scandanavian with a chip on his shoulder.
@22grena What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't even bash Jesus (nor would I) in my comment. And no, his beliefs were not of the "Nordic kind," you ignorant twat. He borrowed and corrupted Nordic runes to make his Nazi party look better. Y'know: Stupid peoples' symbolism!
"What has that go to do with his hatred of Jews. He just combined the two duh." He "just" combined Nordic symbolism with *not just one other* but multiple sources to solidify his Nazi party role's legitimacy.
@22grena Right back at yourself, you incoherent religious nutter who can't even punctuate correctly. Right back at you. Go off to your blessed ivory tower, if you can't read sentences.
@22grena atheism isn't an ideology, principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. atheism is the rejection of the belief in God(s), that's all, if you add to it then it becomes something else, you might as well say Stalin killed in the name of bushy moustaches, you're also forgetting that Hitler was voted in by Christians, because they believed in his anti-Semitic policies, which had been indoctrinated into the masses by the Church.
@moroney1 Without the moral constrain of religious belief, the Communists for instance would not have been able to create the 'new socialist man' and be able without conscience to slaughter millions.
@22grena We are accountable for our beliefs, not our non-beliefs. Even if a Christian never owned slaves that does not excuse the fact he follows a book that claims the practice is acceptable. Likewise, atheists must also be accountable for their beliefs, but no beliefs are derived through a non-belief in God. Atheists follow other political and moral philosophies and it is those other belief systems, not atheism, that are to blame for atrocities committed by non-believers.
@moroney1 lolololol the fuck u know about croatia and lithuania son? stfu pls. if anything, the chruch in croatia did a lot to save some jews. read some books son
It is true that Nazis were helped to leave Europe by anti communist Catholics - to their everlasting shame - but balance these people against those catholics who hid Jews and others from persecution and death. The German people supported the Nazi party and voted thewm into power.
@moroney1 The German Catholic church had to recognise that fact and somehow work within that framework Nobody knew in 1933 what the Nazi party would become, including the French, British and Soviets who all reached agreements with Hitler.
@MagicDara Do you really believe that Hitler, that extreme anti semite, would have any connection with a church that had a Jewish born and raised God.
It is instructive as to your logic and biased way of thinking that you can happily link medevil religious extremism with modern day christianity but fail to see the link between 20th century atheism and the mass destruction of humans. Like a lot of atheists you view logic more of a science than an art.
@22grena U have not supported ur claims with evidence. U have merely asserted that there is a link between atheism and stalin, mao, etc In relation to my last post: Of course peoples beliefs inform their actions. But Atheism isnt a belief. It is a rejection of a belief. Peoples non-beliefs do not inform their actions. What these people did believe in were political ideologies. These ideologies are what informed their actions. To assert otherwise without evidence is bogus.
@MagicDara Where is your evidence? Atheism is certainly a belief with its high priests and acolytes and in your case, missionaries. There is no such thing as a non belief - that is an oxymoron. Hitler was developing a political religion - his aim was to mould christianity into the image of the Nazi party - shorning it of its Jewish and pacafist roots. He was interested in 'religion' as a way to enhance his amoral ideology.
@22grena Religion is an organised attempt to create a set of moral rules (whether they work or not) underpinned by a supreme being. Hitlers methods were amoral in every case - to Hitler the end justified the means - and letting his followers believe he had 'faith' was just another means to an end. Of course peoples beliefs inform their actions and that is why atheistic regimes in the 20th century killed more people in a shorter period of time than at any other time in history.
@22grena There certainly does exist the position of non-brlief. I trust u reject the belief of other gods that arent part of your religion. I trust you have a non-belief in Santa Clause. The burden of proof is on those making a positive claim. Throughout this entire conversation you have ASSERTED that atheism and the extreme acts of the 20th century are linked. , and when pushed for evidence you simply avoid it by asking me for evidence because you dont understand the concept of burden of proof
@MagicDara But thats not a non belief - its a belief in the non existence of God. You are making a positive claim. I too could say I believe in God until I receive proof to the contrary. Why do you think totaltarian regimes in France, Russia and China advocated atheism? They sought a clean slate which left them plenty of moral wriggle room. The only other totalitarian regime in Europe at this time was Catholic Spain, a brutal regime but not genecidal.
@22grena Atheism is a rejection of the existence of god based on lack of evidence. Rejecting a claim is not the same as making one. If what you were saying was correct then I would be justified in the belief of santa clause until somebody proved his non-existance. You are trying your very best to shift the burden of proof to atheists because you know you have no evidence for the existence of your god or the link between atheism and 20th century extremism.
@MagicDara When the atheistic regimes of the 20th cencury came to power they did away with the ethical systems which had developed from religious origins. The communists, for example, tried to create the 'new man' or the new socialist Adam free from the old morality. The individual no longer counted in their brave new world unlike religious belief which emphasises the individual and the individuals connection to something spiritual.
@MagicDara Something which I plagarised but agree with is the following: A world governed purely by Atheistic, evolutionary ethics has been shown by history to be a horrible place to live. Most Atheists recognise this and choose to live by the ethical systems of other religions instead, or at the very least, live by the laws enforced by the government.
@22grena A world governed by darwinistic or evolutionary ethics would certainly be a horrible place to live. But these positions are not synonymous with atheism. Every time you become cornered in the conversation you either ignore it or change scope/topic. Surely u can agree that I am not justified in the belief of santa clause until somebody proves his non-existance. What do u think?
@MagicDara I think you have failed to address my points and chose to comment on someone elses quaote rather than my comments - which is something you do when cornered.
@22grena U haven't made any points, and by points I mean logical arguments supported by evidence. U have made a long list of assertions, all of which I addressed as assertions and rebutted with logic, reason, and evidence. U refuse to answer my question in relation to santa clause because it demonstrates the illogic nature of your position.
@22grena I have addressed ur continuos attempts to relate atheism to stalin and mao etc. It doesn't matter what these people did as it was not in the name of their atheism. It was in the name of their political ideologies.
@MagicDara How interesting that say I have no evidence and then when I provide it you refuse to answer it. I will ask again 'Reply to my example of good comparative evidence ie Spain and USSR'.
@MagicDara Thank you for finally agreeing with my argument- although inadvertently. 'It was in the name of their political ideologies' an important component of which was what? Yes you have guessed it - atheism.
@22grena The political ideologies of Fascism, Communism, and Nazism etc are not synonymous with atheism i.e. one can be atheist, christian, hindu, muslim etc and still advocate any of the aforementioned political positions. If you cannot understand this point then I do not know how this debate can come to a conclusion. And besides even if these figures did do their deeds because of atheism (which they didnt), that has no bearing on whether or not your god exists, which was the original topic.
@22grena I am aware that St Nicholas once existed, I (AS U KNOW) am referring to the popular myth surrounding him. Reindeer and delivering presents to all the children of the world. Am I justified in believing that until somebody disproves it? ******Please answer******* U haven't asked a question???, u have asserted a link between atheism and the extremism of the 20th century? A point which I have rebutted.
@22grena This is simply Catholic talking points. I was raised Catholic, and went to a church that had an abusive priest - and while I do not attend any church anymore, I still run into some of the people I knew from that Catholic church I grew up in, and some of them still give me this talking point about percentages. It's complete bunk, and I hope you grow out of believing it. There are priests who live well in hiding b/c diocese pay their bills after being busted. Happens all the time.
@slamcrank The % is true but if you cant accept it then thats your problem. For someone who calls it bunk you seem to be spending a lot of time here discussing it. Wouldn't it be better if you spent your time in a proper anti-catholic site where you could really have much more fun with likeminded anti-catholics.
Would have been good to see the whole interview, love the honesty Billy calls a spade a spade.....it's crap it's juju it's chicachica PMSL lol
kiwifashion 19 hours ago
I see religion as so fucking stupid that I'm not even an atheist.
eirbiz 1 week ago
'take your invisible friends with you' - brilliant!
StickyyWinklee 1 week ago
Like the animals we have an anus and genitals, so we poo and pee like them and when we drop the front we even couple like them. The only difference between us and the animals is that we walk upright, can put intricate intelligent sentences into each others brains via speech and build rockets to the moon etc. All the religions have their "pretty books of promise" yet the cripples, and the blind of ALL religions stay blind or stay stuck in their wheelchairs and no "god" is there to CURE them all.
TEDOVSKY 1 week ago
@TEDOVSKY Spot on the money sir (or madam). There is only one reason that people believe in religion and that is they cannot handle the fact that life is finite. By being religious they think they are earning frequent flyer points towards eternal life. I have had renal cancer and I know only too well that if it returns then I'm for the 'big jump'. But so what, there's nothing new about dying and it only happens once. Life is for living so go ahead and live it...
LMatters1 1 week ago
Whenever I watch videos on here putting forward a particular religious view I always look at the comments... Proves for good reading! No fucker can keep their opinions to themselves on here! Haha
MarkDavidRaford 3 weeks ago
chkchkchkchk eeeeee <<< LMAO
Leofox94 1 month ago
The Catholic church is pure evil. But don't take my word for it, look it up.
HarpDogAustralia 1 month ago
Nobody says, "It's cdrap" quite like Billy.
Fordi 1 month ago
<3 billy connolly
MrKitteh101 1 month ago
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13orionswrath 3 weeks ago
hang on, theres something far more scary going on here than religous debate!?
Isnt that is his ex-wife interviewing him? ouch
AerynRavanna 1 month ago
@AerynRavanna It des look like Pamela. She's still his current wife though.
silarnon 1 month ago
@AerynRavanna Nah, that's Pam and they're still married.
MarkDavidRaford 3 weeks ago
primitive!
vuotopiuscuro 2 months ago
You really cannot be so dishonest as to say that atheism is not a political stance. Of course it is. It is nothing less than a political statement and a political stance. If any of these regimes were not athistic how do you think they would have been able to pervert human nature so completely that they could murder millions of men, women and children by describing them as enemies.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena ''how do you think they would have been able to pervert human nature so completely that they could murder millions of men, women and children by describing them as enemies.''
The replication of preceeding leader worhip that the Russiand were conditioned into for Stalin, the quazi religous nonsense of Nazism, the almighty powerful infallible figure that is Mao. State religons and leader worship have nothing to do with a individual not believing in God.
moroney1 2 months ago
@moroney1 I dont mean to sound condescending but your reply is not well written or properly thought through.
Without a framework or by doing away with a moral framework these dictators who were therefore amoral were able to destroy anyone they preceived to be their enemies or the enemy of their ideology without conscience.
22grena 2 months ago
SANTA! :D
TweekDash 2 months ago 20
He is right about Catholicism but he does not know why he is right, his views about my "Imaginary Friends" is going to be alot different real shortly.
For all you doubters out there let me prove it to you.
Go look up quantum mechanics "the measurement problem". I doubt any of you aethists are intelligent enough to understand and that is OK because GOD deserves the best, not the weak of mind and unfaithful.
YeshuaisShekinah 2 months ago
People - get it together for fuck sake!
thewobbl 2 months ago
@thewobbl Does that that translate in your world to mean - please agree with me?
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena does what you just wrote do the same?
thewobbl 2 months ago
@thewobbl Sorry but I always raise an eyebrow when someone thinks they are so above the squabbles of ordinary people that they think we need to be told how superior they feel.
Answering a question with a question is also pretty weak.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena No one really knows anything...That is the way it seems to the wobbl
thewobbl 2 months ago
I don't mind anyone believing in anything they want no matter how stupid it is just don't knock on my fucking door and tell me a a lot of sh1t. God did this God did that fuck off
karlosnod 3 months ago
propaganda and idiots even though well meaning make others suffer.
i know most of you are robots,led and brainwashed as billy says.
but the kicker is they don,t know it,s happening.
mickwillie1 3 months ago
billy wud make a great santa claus.
tekken278 3 months ago
Tide goes in, tide goes out
3234718 3 months ago
I'm a Christian and I don't think for one second that the world is 4,000 years old. I think it's millions of years old. So please cut me from the herd ya think I'm in. Lol. Child abuse goes on in many places, but for the church to practically allow it is an atrocity. I think it's worse when it's in a religious setting, because that's one place you think you'd be safe. Not so. Don't be sheeple, people. Feel free to worship and trust God, NOT MAN. Mankind will always fail.
Sherri119 3 months ago
As Billy said, You can't take c*nts like that seriously, the Yanks voted that Bush cu*t in not once but TWICE, Sarah Palin thinks that the Dinosaurs existed only 4000 years ago and the world is only 6000 years old...
Dumb as Sh*t...the lot of them..
segano1 3 months ago 8
@segano1 And the saint Obama continued almost all of Bush's war policies since he has been elected. This video speaking of brainwashing and reality, it must be hard to realize all of you lefties have been living in fantasy land the past decade. It is going to be even funnier when Obama either backs Israel bombing Iran or does it himself because his poll numbers are in the toilet because his left wing economic programs haven't worked. Where will the left wing anti-war movement be? It disappeared.
chuck3668831 3 months ago
Comment removed
segano1 3 months ago
Bill your wife is fab so funny back in the 80s take care.
kingharryannis 3 months ago
I am far more outraged by the fact that men claiming to represent Jesus Christ, or any other religious figure, for that matter, abused children than by the fact that teachers did, or doctors did, or whatever else happened. The actions and effects may have been the same, but to be molested or raped by a man claiming to be virtuous and even Godly is a scandal which even exceeds molestation by a father of his own kids. This is what has nearly killed the Catholic Church in most of the West.
anonUK 4 months ago
Agree with him, Roman catholics are liers and hypocrites and go back in history you wll find that they are nothing more than just plain murderers who killed thousands of innocent people in the name of religion, the pope is a bastard be it the present one or past ones.
pagan7419 4 months ago 10
@pagan7419 I would be interested to know what you beleive in, so I can properly make sense of your comments?
22grena 3 months ago
@pagan7419 I'm an atheist but pope John Paul II was an excellent pope as a person.
rollin4you 3 months ago
@pagan7419 That's a ridiculos statement. Not all Catholics are liars and hypocrites. They are just humans. Of course some are, but no more or less than protestants, muslims, jews, pagans, buddhists or any group of people you care to mention.
And what part of history proves they were 'just plain murderers'?
Silly, ignorant generalisations like that breed contempt and hatred.
mattob11 2 months ago
@mattob11 I agree with pagan7419, having been raised a catholic. I've never met such a bunch of liars, hypocrites, and deceitful thieves. Not saying others aren't like that, but it was the way the religious half of my family acted, and still do.
But they go to church everyday...and confession, so that makes it ok to screw people over I guess. Sickening bunch.
Lawlessuk 2 months ago
@Lawlessuk But surely you cant say they are all like that? I'm not Catholic but there are many in my family and community, and 99% of them are decent people.
mattob11 2 months ago
@Lawlessuk So blame your dysfunctional family
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena Yeah, and their "dysfunctional" friends and the community the live in. (which is quite well to do)
I blame those who think they can fuck people over and hold up their religion as if it wipes clean every nasty thing they ever did.
It's bullshit.
Lawlessuk 2 months ago
@pagan7419 What a wonderfully sweeping statement you've just made
roughlyhewnstone 2 months ago
It is a disgrace, the molestation of children. But, and it a big but, it happens in society as a whole. The fact it happened in a religious organisation does make it worse but % wise its not more than in other organisationsl. Not to lessen its terrible impact. I am a Catholic but I am sure if it happened to me I would feel just like Billy. Thats its terrible consequence.
22grena 4 months ago
@22grena Bro, listen, i appreciate the comment but police arrest peado's, these fuck heads get away with it just because they work for the church. not in my world buddy. i could sit here all day man and pick holes in what you just wrote but im hoping you will awaken from your semi-slumber!!
read what you just wrote and answer me this.....read it first.
So does everybody have to be molested to know its a bad thing?
thewobbl 4 months ago 5
@thewobbl Well 100% know its criminal. Its a disgrace that hierarchy hid the crime. They actually put the priest ahead of the child. If there was anything that could hurt an institution more than this I can’t imagine. The truth is they should be in jail. Priest or no priest. There can’t be a law for one and a law for another. Ordinary Catholics are disgusted as much as anyone else and obviously more I would argue.
22grena 4 months ago
@22grena The truth is stranger than you can imagine...i would say
thewobbl 4 months ago
@thewobbl Police don't arrest Peedo's.The Police arrive too late to do anything and then usually ask if the Parent or Guardian have "proof".......Knowing and proving are hemispheres apart.Sorry bub.I was a father to 2 lovely wee girls but in 2004 the police ignored EVERYTHING .They certainly Lament and Empathise but alas do not do their job very effectively.Don't even mention Social Workers.....They just turn up for a paycheck every month the useless cunts.Peedo's should be cured with a Bullet.
poulsontheprick 3 months ago
@22grena That's crap. Priests are different from other people, because they present themselves as benevolent authorities. It's a misuse of power. It's not only adult against child but adult that is trusted and believed above and beyond the child against child.
Rather to be molested by a total stranger than by someone who is known to and deferred to by your parents and acknowledged in your community as near saintly.
It's the breach of trust & the hypocrisy that gets me.
Smallpotato1965 3 months ago
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@Smallpotato1965 Maybe you should reread what I said because nothing you say do I disagree with
22grena 3 months ago
@22grena It may have happened in other organizations but you must consider the context. The catholic church professes itself as the foundation of morality and as a result it must bare the criticism it receives when a scandal as widespread is exposed. Billy has a real point here when he refers to focusing on the how rather than the why. The advances in science are inescapable for theists, not to mention the fact that there is no evidence for the existance of any divine being in the first place.
MagicDara 3 months ago
@MagicDara (1) I totally agree with your first point, as they totally got it wrong. (2) Science doesnt disprove religion and in fact more forward thinking churches dont disagree with such things as for instance evolution. (3) There is no evidence for atheism either.
22grena 3 months ago
@22grena Science does disprove religion as evolution accounts for the diversity of life and the big bang accounts for the beginning of the universe. Saying God did it is a non answer-there is no evidence to back it up.I am aware that religion has many more functions. It comforts people + gives them hope etc. But if something makes you feel good that doesn't mean it exists. Atheism doesn't claim anything thus no evidence is required, it is a rejection of theistic claims due to lack of evidence.
MagicDara 3 months ago
@MagicDara Science doesn’t disprove the existence of God as any Scientist will tell you. The Catholic Church for instance has no problem with evolution or the Big bang theory as they are quite compatible with the belief in a creator. You seem to be trying to find facts to back up your belief in the same way you accuse others. Your statements also make no sense 'Atheism doesn't claim anything thus no evidence is required' really? I though atheists claim there is no God?
22grena 3 months ago
@22grena To clarify, when I say science disproves religion I mean that it disproves many of its claims.Technically speaking u cant disprove the existence of anything e.g Santa. But it is a very poor argument to suggest that God exists simply because science cant 100% disprove it. That situation results in the belief of all things. I trust u dont believe in the easter bunny? Atheists REJECT the claim of the existence ofGod due to lack of evidence. *Rejecting a claim isn't the same as making one *
MagicDara 3 months ago
@MagicDara If there is no evidence either way then you should be an agnostic. If there is no evidence either way yet you still insist there is no God, which atheists do, then you are simply following your own fundementalist beliefs.
22grena 3 months ago
@22grena I didnt say there is no evidence either way I said there is no evidence for a God and that science has explained many things that religions used to claim were as a result of Gods eg human origins. The default position in relation to a claim without evidence either way isnt agnosticism. Are you agnostic about Santa or the tooth fairy? Probability must be part of the argument. Atheists dont insist anything, they reject claims thus far and are willing to change their minds with evidence.
MagicDara 3 months ago
@22grena One after thought: Fundamentalists are not willing to change their minds. Therefore your characterization of atheists as fundamentalists is extremely inaccurate. Remember atheists reject theistic claims based on lack of evidence, therefore if evidence became available for the existence of a god they would change their minds. Fundamentalists dont change their minds.
MagicDara 3 months ago
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@MagicDara Fundementalists are human beings and human beings change their minds, Please answer my point -If there is no evidence either way yet you still insist there is no God, which atheists do, then you are simply following your own fundementalist beliefs.
22grena 3 months ago
@22grena There is no evidence either that Allah or Zeus exist, but I'm sure you are an atheist to them. Why? Becasue if an individual makes an extrordinary claim of existence it must be backed up by extrordinary evidence. If not, then there is no reason to believe. IF i claimed that the Buddha reached Nirvanna you wouldnt have to disprove it to not believe because the onus of proof is on the one claiming something exists
moroney1 3 months ago 5
@moroney1 First, you cannot be called an atheist if you believe in God, whether Allah or Zeus. A clue to how people believe is found in the word, faith. They believe because they believe that what a man said 2,000 or 1400 years ago is true.
You say religion must prove its claims but as an atheist you don't have to prove yours. So as you claim there is not God the onus must also be on you to prove it.
22grena 3 months ago
@22grena U are misunderstanding atheism and the principles of basic burden of proof. 1) Athiests don't claim there is no God, they simply reject claims thus far due to no evidence. Rejecting a claim is not the same as making one. 2) The burden of proof is on those making a claim. The default position is disbelief until sufficient evidence is provided. Hope this helps.
MagicDara 3 months ago
@MagicDara I appreciate your explanation and I see it is your definition of atheism but it is not all atheists definition of their belief, especially the miltant fundementalsit atheists that are beginning to emerge and get so much airtime. Personally I really have no problem with anyones views about religion. I dont care if you dont believe. But when my beliefs is attacked and you have no evidence to refute it then I have a problem because it just abuse.
22grena 3 months ago
@22grena I agree that there are atheists who insist there is no God and who say that religion is a bad thing, but these views are more in line with anti-theism than atheism. Militant fundementalsit atheists?This is nonsense. If this is true I would like to see some hard evidence, not just some crack pot conspiracy theory. There is no 'attacking' going on here. Billy is stating the facts about molestation in the church. U perceive it as an attack because ones religion is rarely questioned.
MagicDara 3 months ago
@MagicDara Please take off your atheist glasses because it filters out all the information you subconsciosly delete. The Catholic Church is constantly attached every day in the media, even before the child abuse scandal. I live in the UK and most of the prominent atheists are English. What they seem to not understand and ignore is that their attacks, which are vicious, are mainly felt by immigrant communities, which is feeding racism. They are attacking the cultural identites.
22grena 3 months ago
@22grena 1) U have avoided my challenge to provide some hard evidence for the existence of Militant fundementalsit atheists. 2) Religion in general is criticized in the media e.g Islam is continuously mentioned in relation to terrorism etc. Why should catholicism be exempt from critique? 3) There are no vicious attacks in the Uk or anywhere? Atheists aren't killing, fighting, or injuring religious believers. They are merely voicing their opinions. 4) Speaking against a religion isn't racism
MagicDara 2 months ago
@MagicDara Racists are using a fear of religion eg Islam (it was historically catholicism) as a cover for their racism. People like Dawkins are feeding it. Ireland doesnt have large immigrant communities like the UK and therefore you are not aware of the problem there. When I said attacks I didnt say it was physical but it is psychological and damaging. Religion is cultural for many immigrants (also irish) so by attacking and belittleing their religion you are attacking their cultural identity.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena Whether or not racists are using the fear of religion (eg Islam) as a cover for their views is irrelevant. What has that got to do with Atheists? Atheists are not spreading fear or promoting racism. They have a single view on a single topic, that being the rejection of the claim that God exists. Prominent atheists like Dawkins are not feeding racist ideas, they are promoting the idea that one can have a life without religion. In fact it is religion that encourages segregation and fear.
MagicDara 2 months ago
@MagicDara You need to remove your atheist ear muffs too. Where do you get this idea that atheistic beliefs are benign. Hundreds of millions of people were killed by those ideas in the twentieth century. Hitler,Stalin, Mao ring a bell with you. Dawkins may not be intending to increase racism but he is. He is a militant fundementalist atheist. He dosen't care about the damage he does to immigrant communities in every country.
You have the same argument that Scots unionists use against Catholics.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena How dare u assert that Mao,Stalin etc did what they did because of their atheism. There is no logical pathway from atheism to murder. Why would Stalin murder people because of a lack of belief in God? Stalin had a mustache too, does that mean people with mustaches are more likely to murder? Religious people on the other hand DO have a logical pathway to murder. Does the crusades or 9/11 ring any bells?Those people murdered in the name of their faith. Hitler by the way was a catholic.
MagicDara 2 months ago
@MagicDara 'How dare you' Bit of a drama queen? Their atheism fed directly into their lack of humanity. The Crusades is a poor argument as it was at such an early period in history as are the muslim fanatics who have a similar medievil mindset. Assuming you were once a Catholic, that screws your argument about Hitler being a Catholic, which is a weak and absurd response.
Like a lot of immpressionable people you need to read more widely and get a better sense of the human mind and spirit.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena U are implying that one needs a belief inGod to have humanity. Where is ur evidence for this? I have no belief in god and I am a decent person. Stalin and Mao did what they did based on political and social motives.Their acts were not contingent upon their atheism.Nowhere in their writings have they said they killed in the name of atheism.Hitler said he was doing Gods work inMein Kampf. He referred to god in many of his speeches too.Hitler also had strong ties with the catholic church.
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara Not impying that. Atheists can b as caring as anyone i'm sure. But atheism was a fundemental part of these dictators ideology and allowed them to have no moral hinderance to mass extermination. Hitler used the word 'God' in the most abstract and loose way and is hardly a man to be credited with telling the truth to anyone. So what exactly were his ties to the RC Church?
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena Ur simply wrong Atheism wasn't a part of their ideas at all. Like I said there was no mention of atheism in their writings or speeches. There is no logical pathway from athiesm to murder. Why would they have no moral hinderance if they didnt believe in god? Do u really think a belief in hell is a deterrent? In 1933 the church signed a deal to live peacefully with the Nazis and their ideas. In the 90s the church apologized for failing to take action in challenging the regime.
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara To sustain your argument you have to go off at a tangent. Whats hell got to do with it? E.G. Christianity teaches peace ergo it would inhibit their violence. Don't let the facts get in the way of your argument. The fact is In 1933 the entire German people signed an agreement with the Nazi, even atheists, I dare say. I am sure the hieracrchy of the German Catholic Church was as scared by the Nazi as anyone else.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena I think the Vatican are very much aware of their collusion with the Nazis since theyve already apoligised thus admitted it.I mean Hitler was so repestected by them that the Vatican forced the church to celebrate his birthday ever year.They were the first to have a treaty with the Nazis and helped many Nazis escpae to south america.It was their frequent preachings of anti semitism at the time which inspired Hitler to believe that he was exerting God's will in kiiling the jews
moroney1 2 months ago
@moroney1 I would be interested to know what you think the Vatican could have done. The Nazis had shown their complete ruthlessness and disregard for life. Maybe you think the Vatican could have declared war on Hitlers regime?
Intellectually I am sure you know you should approach this from the point of view of evidence rather than start with a conclusion and find the evidence to fit your thesis.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena I know you can say the Vatican were afriad or bullied, but even after the war was over the Vatican were still aiding Nazis in their escpae to fascist dictaterships in South America, collusion was still occuring even then. That religous hierarchey preached anti semitism until 1964!! If Htiler didnt think he could veto rationality as he was on he side of God in exterminating the Jewish people, a large chunk of the atrocites there would never have happened. Religous inspiration
moroney1 2 months ago
@moroney1 This is exactly the point I've been trying to make. The words 'Religious inspiration' capture my point perfectly. As Richard Dawkins says there is a logical pathway from religious belief to doing bad things. Now don't get me wrong, there is also a pathway to do good things. But no such bad pathway exists for the atheist position. Nobody in other words has ever said I'm doing this wicked deed (whatever it may be) in the name of my non-belief in God. That is an illogical position.
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara You really need to take of those atheist glasses and reread the points you have yet to reply to.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena I love how rather than continue to argue you simply ASSERT that I am refusing to respond to questions and arguments you have proposed. When in reality I have addressed every comment you have made and even asked you to re-state the questions you think I have failed to answer or ignored. Every weak argument you have made has been identified as a fallacy or illogical and when you realized you were unable to propose a valid argument you attempted the USUAL shifting of the burden of proof.
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara You are asking me what question I asked yet you know what it is. You simply want to stop the conversation we were having because you have trouble replying. If you really believe you have answered all questions etc thats fine. You havnt
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena ask it again. More than happy to continue the debate. So ask it again please because it is not clear what your asking in the original post.
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@moroney1 Individual anti communist Catholics aided fleeing Nazi fugitives not the Vatican as an institution, that’s just propaganda. On the other hand the Allied governments aided and abetted the escape and employment of ex Nazi.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena If this were true then the Catholic church would never have issued an official apology in the 90's. Once again in this statement you have merely asserted an opposing point of view rather than supporting it with evidence.
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara Evidence for what? I never said there was evidence for Gods existence. There is also no evidence that God does not exist. And Atheist regimes still murdered 100 million plus people in the 20th century. How many people were murdered by Religios regimes?
You really do exhibit all the characteristics of a fundementalist in your religion. The zeal of a new convert.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena 1)So you think there is no evidence for god? Then why do you believe in god? And if you do think u have evidence is it rational and supported by evidence? 2) We have already discussed the fact that these regimes were motivated by political ideologies. But even if atheism was at fault (which it isn't) why does that have any bearing on your belief in god or your acceptance of a particular faith. 3) I am willing to change my mind with evidence thus by definition I am not a fundamentalist.
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara You have either a very short memory or you haven't been reading my comments and because like any fundementalist avid in his new faith you are prone to mentally delete anything that doesen't match your belief we are going in circles - which becomes boring and wasteful of time.
22grena 2 months ago
@MagicDara So answer the question I posed regarding Spain and the USSR.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena The statement you made was "Why do you think totaltarian regimes in France, Russia and China advocated atheism? They sought a clean slate which left them plenty of moral wriggle room. The only other totalitarian regime in Europe at this time was Catholic Spain, a brutal regime but not genocidal" They advocated atheism because totalitarianism by its very nature requires one ruler. If the people worship the commands of a divine being then the ruler's dominance is de-prioritized.
MagicDara 2 months ago
@MagicDara Even real time comparative evidence gets filtered out by your atheist glasses. They are very effective. You didnt even understand the comparison. The last part of your answer makes no sense. How does it apply to Franco's Spain which is my point.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena Also, because these rulers were atheists they simply disliked religion and the dogma attached to it. Why does it matter if the spanish regime was not genocidal? it was still brutal as you admitted yourself. What u are attempting to do here is say that because these figures were atheists they committed mass murder etc. But like I have said there is no logical pathway from atheism to murder. If u think there is explain it because me and anybody else who reads this would love to hear it.
MagicDara 2 months ago
@MagicDara Its funny you ask for evidence and then delay answering and then try to avoid the unavoidable conclusion because that would contradict your fundementalist belief. The right way to go is to find the evidence first and then reach a conclusion and not the other way around.It matters because I am comparing two types of Dictatirships exsting at the same time on the same continent. One was brutal in the way of a police state. The other murdered millions of men, women and children
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena I perfectly understand ur point i.e. The "atheist regimes" were worse in ur opinion and i'm assuming u think that's the case because the rulers were atheists. However it is merely incidental. Ur point remains invalid until you can prove that these regimes enacted these terrible deeds in the name of their atheism. Sweden is a secular country with a secular government. Over 75% of the population are atheists yet the country is as 'normal' as Britain or Ireland. Atheism hasn't destroyed it
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara Maybe I shouldn't give you too many concepts at once as your comprehension is a little shaky.
Sweden is a modern Democracy. It is neither an atheist state nor is it a totalitarian state. So useless as a comparison.
2 totalitarian states existing at the same time. One, totalitarian Spain. Brutal as any police state but religious and Atheistic USSR which murdered millions of men, women and children. Explain why that is.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena totalitarian countries are the same as religios countries. they just have an other religion or cult as a replacement. like the nazis in germany. they do the same things on a religions level depending on the people not thinking for themselfs and follow the idea. like a sect. and thats no point of arguing or diffrent opinions. its a known fact. it has been studiet scientificaly. secular or atheist countries don't worship or condemn anything out of this world thats why they don't "fight"
swunt10 2 months ago
@swunt10 I am afraid you dont understand the difference between a secular and atheist country. A secular country is simply one which has a separation of church and state. It doesnt mean its atheist. Wrong again secular and atheist states do fight. I think you are confusing this with secular democracies, which very rarely if ever fight.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena wow you have rally not understand a simple thing. what have you studied again? english and sport or what?
swunt10 2 months ago
@swunt10 You know I admire anyone who can speak and write a second language but I do not understand what you are talking about? Ask your teacher.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena Your point is irrelevant until you demonstrate a link between the murder of these millions and atheism. Stalin was motivated by a political ideology.
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara So you still are reluctant to respond directly to the example I gave you (Spain and USSR) Please respond or I have to conclude that you just dont understand the concept. In which case my fault for not recognising that earlier and wasting a lot of time.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena U are a very dishonest debater. U are attempting to finish the conversation based upon a comparison which I already responded to but u insist I haven't. But whats really funny is that (as I have shown) ur comparison is irrelevant because you haven't demonstrated a link between atheism and the extreme acts of the USSR. This debate is going in circles. I have defeated every argument you made throughout this talk but now you are asserting victory based upon a comparison that is irrelevant
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara Well I am trying to show a link but you refuse to respond. I realise now that you are just a fool or just a wind up merchant 'I have defeated every argument you made' says you. Stupid comment.
22grena 2 months ago
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@22grena I understand and appreciate what u are trying to demonstrate but without evidence it is irrelevant. In other words u haven't demonstrated a link between atheism and the extreme acts of the USSR. What u are saying is the equivalent to saying Stalin and Hitler did what they did because they both had mustaches. If you cannot understand the fallacy u are committing then perhaps I am not explaining it well enough or u simply wish to reject it. My advice is to visit the Talk Origins website
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara Answer the question: Why didnt Franco murder millions. Why did Stalin murder millions. Both dictators existing at the same time on the same continent. What philosophy did they not have in common.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena That is a spectacularly stupid argument >>> Two dictators: one killed a lot and one didn't. The one who killed a lot was an atheist therefore that is the reason he did it. Are u aware how silly you are making urself look??? U are still attempting to shift the burden of proof. U are asking me to argue against ur ASSERTION that Stalin did what he did because of his atheism. Im afraid thats not how it works. U must first demonstrate that he did it because of his atheism. Major fail
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara So explain to me why only atheist regimes murder millions of men women and children and non atheist regimes do not. You fail.onsistently to answer this question.
22grena 2 months ago
@moroney1 Some critic’s say Christians preach anti Semitism to this day just because of the way the Bible describes the Crucifixion. Nonsense of course because the Gospels were written by Jews about Jews. What was the religious inspiration for Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot, Chiang Kai Shek and Hedeki Tojo and the 100 million plus deaths they were responsible for?
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena The Vatican's anti-semtism was prominant until 1964 & influenced Croatia, Lithuania Hitler himself.He clearly states that he believes to be exerting not his will,not an anti religous will,but God's will in exterminating the Jewish people,inspired by the notion of deicied ie the jews killed God and must be punished.Those other men were inspired by another ideology, a political one and atheism isnt a politcal stance, simply lack of belief in god so you cant mesh them together ,
moroney1 2 months ago 6
@moroney1 Hitler said many things he did not believe. He said them simply to fool his opponents or to gain an advantage. He said that Czeckoslovakia was his last territorial demand in Europe, he said he wanted peace. Hitler did not believe in a religion that we would recognise. His religion would be one maybe the Vikings would have liked but its not one we wouold consider to be legitimate.
22grena 2 months ago
@moroney1 Your whole argument is fatuous and is probably derived from your anti Christian sentiment if not your anti Catholic bias. As I have said before the Church is accused of anti semetism just because of the way the Crucifiction is described in the Bible (see the reaction to the Passion of the Christ) Also you continue to confuse what the Christian church teaches and what individuals say or do ie anti semetism, which is in direct contradiction of Christian teachibg and practice.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena But Judaism is anti-christ so there's no love lost either way.
killerskiss09 2 months ago
@moroney1 Also you must be in the minority of people who actually takes a statement from Hitler at face value to support your argument. Hitler was the connsumate liar. He had no scruples when it came to falsehood. He saw it as simply another tactic.
Hitler was in assence the opposite of a Christian in every way.
22grena 2 months ago
@moroney1 As I said before you are firstly talking a notorious liar at his word. Secondly Hitler used any reference to God in the most oblique way and at most in the sort of Giod worshipped by the Vikings. Hardly the type of God a Christian would worship so your comparison is facile. Atheism is a major and fundemental part of the idelaogies of Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot and many others who murdered over 100 million men,womwn and children in the 20th century. Religion didnt kill them
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena Would you please stop these stupid comparisons of Hitler's psychotic ideals with the Viking "God"? The Vikings did not have any particular beef with the Jews, and no they were not frothing-at-the-mouth madman barbarians whose only joy in life was killing, not any more than the other nations in Europe were in that period.
Brynjarbjorn 2 months ago
@Brynjarbjorn What amazes me about you 'Christ' bashers is your incoherence and lack of historical perspective. Hitlers beliefs if he had any (he didnt really, not in the modern sense as that would imply a morality) were definitely of the Nordic kind. What has that got to do with his hatred of Jews. He just combined the two duh. Your comment implies you are a Scandanavian with a chip on his shoulder.
22grena 1 month ago
@22grena What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't even bash Jesus (nor would I) in my comment. And no, his beliefs were not of the "Nordic kind," you ignorant twat. He borrowed and corrupted Nordic runes to make his Nazi party look better. Y'know: Stupid peoples' symbolism!
"What has that go to do with his hatred of Jews. He just combined the two duh." He "just" combined Nordic symbolism with *not just one other* but multiple sources to solidify his Nazi party role's legitimacy.
Brynjarbjorn 1 month ago
@Brynjarbjorn I would reply if I could understand the fucking incoherent gibberish you wrote.
22grena 1 month ago
@22grena Right back at yourself, you incoherent religious nutter who can't even punctuate correctly. Right back at you. Go off to your blessed ivory tower, if you can't read sentences.
Brynjarbjorn 1 month ago
@22grena atheism isn't an ideology, principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. atheism is the rejection of the belief in God(s), that's all, if you add to it then it becomes something else, you might as well say Stalin killed in the name of bushy moustaches, you're also forgetting that Hitler was voted in by Christians, because they believed in his anti-Semitic policies, which had been indoctrinated into the masses by the Church.
jethropike1964 3 weeks ago
@moroney1 Without the moral constrain of religious belief, the Communists for instance would not have been able to create the 'new socialist man' and be able without conscience to slaughter millions.
22grena 2 months ago
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@22grena We are accountable for our beliefs, not our non-beliefs. Even if a Christian never owned slaves that does not excuse the fact he follows a book that claims the practice is acceptable. Likewise, atheists must also be accountable for their beliefs, but no beliefs are derived through a non-belief in God. Atheists follow other political and moral philosophies and it is those other belief systems, not atheism, that are to blame for atrocities committed by non-believers.
moroney1 2 months ago
@moroney1 lolololol the fuck u know about croatia and lithuania son? stfu pls. if anything, the chruch in croatia did a lot to save some jews. read some books son
Teslina4Studios 1 month ago
@Teslina4Studios Anti semitism was promoted till 1964, that had amajor influence on Catholic Europe. Please do not get emotional
moroney1 1 month ago
@moroney1 .
It is true that Nazis were helped to leave Europe by anti communist Catholics - to their everlasting shame - but balance these people against those catholics who hid Jews and others from persecution and death. The German people supported the Nazi party and voted thewm into power.
22grena 2 months ago
@moroney1 The German Catholic church had to recognise that fact and somehow work within that framework Nobody knew in 1933 what the Nazi party would become, including the French, British and Soviets who all reached agreements with Hitler.
22grena 2 months ago
@MagicDara Do you really believe that Hitler, that extreme anti semite, would have any connection with a church that had a Jewish born and raised God.
It is instructive as to your logic and biased way of thinking that you can happily link medevil religious extremism with modern day christianity but fail to see the link between 20th century atheism and the mass destruction of humans. Like a lot of atheists you view logic more of a science than an art.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena Do u believe that people's beliefs inform their actions?
MagicDara 2 months ago
@MagicDara Sorry but the rule is reply first and then ask a question.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena U have not supported ur claims with evidence. U have merely asserted that there is a link between atheism and stalin, mao, etc In relation to my last post: Of course peoples beliefs inform their actions. But Atheism isnt a belief. It is a rejection of a belief. Peoples non-beliefs do not inform their actions. What these people did believe in were political ideologies. These ideologies are what informed their actions. To assert otherwise without evidence is bogus.
MagicDara 2 months ago
@MagicDara Where is your evidence? Atheism is certainly a belief with its high priests and acolytes and in your case, missionaries. There is no such thing as a non belief - that is an oxymoron. Hitler was developing a political religion - his aim was to mould christianity into the image of the Nazi party - shorning it of its Jewish and pacafist roots. He was interested in 'religion' as a way to enhance his amoral ideology.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena Religion is an organised attempt to create a set of moral rules (whether they work or not) underpinned by a supreme being. Hitlers methods were amoral in every case - to Hitler the end justified the means - and letting his followers believe he had 'faith' was just another means to an end. Of course peoples beliefs inform their actions and that is why atheistic regimes in the 20th century killed more people in a shorter period of time than at any other time in history.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena There certainly does exist the position of non-brlief. I trust u reject the belief of other gods that arent part of your religion. I trust you have a non-belief in Santa Clause. The burden of proof is on those making a positive claim. Throughout this entire conversation you have ASSERTED that atheism and the extreme acts of the 20th century are linked. , and when pushed for evidence you simply avoid it by asking me for evidence because you dont understand the concept of burden of proof
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara But thats not a non belief - its a belief in the non existence of God. You are making a positive claim. I too could say I believe in God until I receive proof to the contrary. Why do you think totaltarian regimes in France, Russia and China advocated atheism? They sought a clean slate which left them plenty of moral wriggle room. The only other totalitarian regime in Europe at this time was Catholic Spain, a brutal regime but not genecidal.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena Atheism is a rejection of the existence of god based on lack of evidence. Rejecting a claim is not the same as making one. If what you were saying was correct then I would be justified in the belief of santa clause until somebody proved his non-existance. You are trying your very best to shift the burden of proof to atheists because you know you have no evidence for the existence of your god or the link between atheism and 20th century extremism.
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara When the atheistic regimes of the 20th cencury came to power they did away with the ethical systems which had developed from religious origins. The communists, for example, tried to create the 'new man' or the new socialist Adam free from the old morality. The individual no longer counted in their brave new world unlike religious belief which emphasises the individual and the individuals connection to something spiritual.
22grena 2 months ago
@MagicDara Something which I plagarised but agree with is the following: A world governed purely by Atheistic, evolutionary ethics has been shown by history to be a horrible place to live. Most Atheists recognise this and choose to live by the ethical systems of other religions instead, or at the very least, live by the laws enforced by the government.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena A world governed by darwinistic or evolutionary ethics would certainly be a horrible place to live. But these positions are not synonymous with atheism. Every time you become cornered in the conversation you either ignore it or change scope/topic. Surely u can agree that I am not justified in the belief of santa clause until somebody proves his non-existance. What do u think?
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara I think you have failed to address my points and chose to comment on someone elses quaote rather than my comments - which is something you do when cornered.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena U haven't made any points, and by points I mean logical arguments supported by evidence. U have made a long list of assertions, all of which I addressed as assertions and rebutted with logic, reason, and evidence. U refuse to answer my question in relation to santa clause because it demonstrates the illogic nature of your position.
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara Reply to my example of good comparative evidence ie Spain and USSR
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena I have addressed ur continuos attempts to relate atheism to stalin and mao etc. It doesn't matter what these people did as it was not in the name of their atheism. It was in the name of their political ideologies.
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
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@MagicDara How interesting that say I have no evidence and then when I provide it you refuse to answer it. I will ask again 'Reply to my example of good comparative evidence ie Spain and USSR'.
22grena 2 months ago
@MagicDara Thank you for finally agreeing with my argument- although inadvertently. 'It was in the name of their political ideologies' an important component of which was what? Yes you have guessed it - atheism.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena The political ideologies of Fascism, Communism, and Nazism etc are not synonymous with atheism i.e. one can be atheist, christian, hindu, muslim etc and still advocate any of the aforementioned political positions. If you cannot understand this point then I do not know how this debate can come to a conclusion. And besides even if these figures did do their deeds because of atheism (which they didnt), that has no bearing on whether or not your god exists, which was the original topic.
MagicDara 2 months ago
@22grena And of course you still haven't addressed my Santa Clause analogy as it is detrimental to your position.
MagicDara 2 months ago
@MagicDara Santa Claus was actually a real person my friend. In english Santa Claus means St Nicholas. He was a 4th century Bishop of Myra.
Now stop avoiding my question unless of course you have no answer. In which case I have made my point and can end your education.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena I am aware that St Nicholas once existed, I (AS U KNOW) am referring to the popular myth surrounding him. Reindeer and delivering presents to all the children of the world. Am I justified in believing that until somebody disproves it? ******Please answer******* U haven't asked a question???, u have asserted a link between atheism and the extremism of the 20th century? A point which I have rebutted.
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@MagicDara You really are trying to avoid answering aren't you. I believe I asked you ther question first.
22grena 2 months ago
@22grena Ask it again, ill answer. Then ill ask you my question again and you answer. Thats fare and democratic. Whats your question?
MagicDara 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
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MagicDara 3 months ago
@22grena This is simply Catholic talking points. I was raised Catholic, and went to a church that had an abusive priest - and while I do not attend any church anymore, I still run into some of the people I knew from that Catholic church I grew up in, and some of them still give me this talking point about percentages. It's complete bunk, and I hope you grow out of believing it. There are priests who live well in hiding b/c diocese pay their bills after being busted. Happens all the time.
slamcrank 3 months ago
@slamcrank The % is true but if you cant accept it then thats your problem. For someone who calls it bunk you seem to be spending a lot of time here discussing it. Wouldn't it be better if you spent your time in a proper anti-catholic site where you could really have much more fun with likeminded anti-catholics.
22grena 3 months ago