Exceller was a good horse, but not in their league. The race before, slew beat him clearly. This is the second best race by a racehorse outside of Secretariat's Belmont. First of all, Affirmed was only five lengths back at the head of the stretch and faded. The excuse of the saddle slipping was used but never proven....He obviously could not stay with the Slew. Affirmed was great, but not Slew...Slew also broke thru the gate before the start of this race and that takes a lot our of a horse.
@MrRicknagy With respect to Affirmed...the great 4YO will, nearly always, defeat the great 3YO. Even a good 4YO can defeat a great 3YO. Did Affirmed's saddle slip? Of course it did and to say it was never proven is not accurate. Does it mean that Affiremd would have won. Probably not as Cauthen was slumping terribly. As far as Excller, while he does not show a great record, he WAS a great stayer having won many top races in Europe, the U.S and Canada. He was running 1 7/8th's mile races...
@bbmtge ...at 3YO and winning. He won a lot of important races and was a better stayer than either Affirmed or Slew. He, thus, was a great horse just at distances that are not as popular with the public and the media. Remember, too, that Affirmed's 4 YO campaign was exemplary.
@bbmtge by the time affirmeds saddle slipped (top of the strecth) he was already beat....slew was just a better horse....would have loved to see slew go against dr fager going say 1 1/8th
@renduke That is not a correct statement. Further, you seem not to post that Slew was 4 and very well rested for this race as well as the MC. Affirmed was but 3YO and had not only come off of a TC season, but he did it being challenged as no other TC winner had ever been. To avoid detailed analysis of the facts and simply post opinionated rhetoric is parochial.
@bbmtge PLEASE Do Not try to school me in the finer points of racing i have been in the game almost 40 years and have been an asst trainer on a major ciruit...I stand by what I said...Yes The 4 Yr Old has the advantage...Yes Affirmed came off a tough campaign...but he got smoked in their 1st meeting...AND was soundly beaten in this race up to the point where his saddle slipped.
If it makes you feel any better when Affirmed was 4 he did beat Spectacular Bid
@renduke I could care less as to how long you CLAIM to have "been in the game". when an individual IGNORES factors/details,makes ridiculous comments,then, they DO need to be schooled. 1) Affirmed; tough campaign but...simply dismissive and prejudiced. 2) Affirmed got smoked; Affirmed gave weight by scale, was 3YO, which, AGAIN you REFUSE to acknowledge, had a throat infectino, Slew ran his FIRST G1 of the year, ran only 3 G1's for the entire year, Slew rested and ready. GET A LIFE!!!
Exceller was never in Slew and Affirmed league...you must be kidding. He beat them both! Both were triple crown winners. Exceller was a great horse! Any one who thinks different is a dumb ass.
and who really knows how many great horses ended up like excellor and ferdinand. as jess4metoo said, it really is a disgrace on the industry. unfortunatelly, if what i read was right, excellors former owner was interested in finding him but it was a few months too late. what a shame.
What would Slew time be if he was not prepared for this race like Secretariat was in the Woodward? Big Red not trained for 2 weeks coming into the Woodward yet ran a 2:26 2/5 almost 1 second faster than Slew who was a 4 yr. old in top form well prepared.. But Slew was ill in the Swaps and he was not in top form for the Paterson race. He only lost this race beacuse he ran to fast a pace. No way Exceller a better horse nor Tobin.
Affirmed was a great horse who had a bad day. Affirmed had the Jockey Club Gold Cup; Seattle Slew had the Swaps; Spectacular Bid had the Belmont; Secretariat had the Wood.
Affirmed would put a final stamp on his greatness by turning back Spectacular Bid in the following year's Jockey Gold Cup. His record speaks for itself and no one doubts he is one the legends of the sport.
Beyond question, the fate of Exceller (& of Ferdinand, & of an unguessable number of our bravest runners) is a blight on the sport, and an obscenity.
Hwever. As long as Seattle Slew and Spectacular Bid (still less Exceller) appear on thoroughbred "best" lists (or even--dare I think it?--Man 'o War and Secretariat) ranked more highly than Affirmed -- lin part, as a result of how this one race is perceived -- the injustice will remain a *thorn in my shoe.* Hence, my notes in support of Affirmed.
Affirmed wasn't at his best on this day. Hey, it happens. It's horse racing.
I think it's best to appreciate Exceller's excellent performance. His middle move was a thing of beauty and he had enough in the tank to hold off an unbelievable game Seattle Slew. It's a Hall of Fame performance from a Hall of Fame horse.
The biggest tragedy isn't Affirmed's sub-par performance or Life Hope's presence as the rabbit, but rather Exceller's undeserved demise.
That Slew actually dug in and almost won this race is truly amazing. If Dr. Fager was asked to do that at a mile and a half, we'd still be waiting for him to finish.
@brunoaltimino Well, but--in fairness--Dr. Fager was apt to be toting--what? 139 pounds, as he did in the Vosburgh? So it's not so surprising that a freshened Seattle Slew at weight-for-age could run as well as this.
Despite Slew's courage, he was unable to cope with sprint champs "on the stretchout" (like J.O. Tobin and Dr. Patches). whereas Affirmed -- even while pinned to the rail & toting 134 (giving 12 lbs and more to Text, Sirlad, & Co.) put up 1:58.40 -- a FIFTH off Noor's world record
The Bid being undefeated and never even pressed--and the prestige of a walkover--at 4 is why he ulitmately gets rated higher than Affirmed and usually Slew, too. But really, these are three of the best horses of all time, all top ten. When you put Secretariat and Forego into the mix, the 1970's were the golden age of racing.
@Stevesomma 1980 was a down year for three year olds and older horses. Name a memorable 3 year old from that crop besides Genuine Risk. There was no Affirmed or Slew to worry about. Had either been racing that year there would have been no walkover. Affirmed's style turns Bid into weaker version of Alydar. Bid could not (and did not) run down Affirmed, and the 1979 JCGC at weight for age in the fall was very decisive proof of that. Rating Bid above Affirmed is a travesty, above Slew a joke
To say that Affirmed wasn't in Seattle Slew's league might be a big much, but it is true that he wasn't quite as good as Seattle Slew. He lost five races in a row in the middle of his prime, which is more races than Slew or the Bid lost in their entire careers.
While Alydar provided excellent competition for Affirmed, so did horses like JO Tobin, Exceller, and of course Affirmed himself for the great Slew.
Two great champions and they would be followed by another (the Bid).
Spectacular Bid had a season for the ages in '80 and finished his career with 26 wins in 30 starts.
Too much is made out of the Triple Crown races but let's not forget that they are restricted to 3-year-olds. Secretariat won the Triple Crown easily but lost twice vs. open company, and Affirmed beat Alydar 3 times but lost in the Travers then got stomped on by Seattle Slew and Exceller. Affirmed had a good '79 but not on par with Spectacular Bid's '80 season.
@DanielSong39 The Bids ' season was arguebly the best season for a older horse in American racing. To the naysayers who think Affirmed and Seattle Slew are better than The Bid, Bid broke eight track records and was 26 for 26 from 6 1/2 to 10 furlongs. Some of those track records still stands and his mile and qtr world record is on par w Secretariat in terms of monumental achievement. Also, Bid ran lame in the Belmont and still hit the board. With a better ride he would of won the triple crown.
@DanielSong39 Spectacular Bid's "season for the ages" -as you put it- was a direct result of Affirmed: Not Racing At Age 5. (He was in the barn, breeding.) The cold equations do not exist in a vacuumn. World record times and extended winning streaks are things of beauty. But they are far from comprehensive & we should no more take Results at face value (without regard to bad rides & equipment failures) than we can sensibly bet raw times & margins of victory without reference to troubled trips.
I disagree with AwsiDooger that Affirmed was not in Slew's league. I understand his reasoning based on the two races between the two. But in this particular race, Affirmed somehow ran of with Cauthen, who was in the midst of a terrible slump. The way I see it, if Affirmed had been taken off the pace, Life's Hope would have pushed Slew through a similar 6 furlongs. Just off of basic handicapping we know that Affirmed was capable of a 2:26 and change 1 1/2 miles. Possibly too fast for Slew.
I don't remember what I wrote. From your description it sounds like I may have exaggerated something during a back and forth debate. Luckily those have calmed down.
Billy Turner said after this race that Affirmed was not in Slew's league. I probably mentioned that quote.
Affirmed was an awesome horse. I always thought Slew was a small percentage faster and better. If Slew had died or never faced Affirmed, no doubt Affirmed would have been rated higher, and I'd seethed forever.
On the Bloodhorse "Top 100 Thoroughbreds of the 20th Century", which came out in 2000, they rated Bid ahead of Affirmed. I wrote a letter to the editor protesting this and the letter was published by the BH in their "Letters to the Editor" sect. Nevertheless, the list has Bid still ahead of Affirmed. As the years go by it becomes more clear that this is a bad error. The achievement of being able to beat a horse the level of Alydar three straight races in the classics is a great achievement.
History has not judged Affirmed fairly. That he is rated behind Spectacular Bid after accomplishing more over a better rival (Alydar) and then beating Bid at weight for age in the '79 JCGC should have been enough to settle it. Slew was really strong as a 4 year old in the fall of '78. Moreover, Slew's frontrunning style makes it hard to envision Affirmed getting in front of Slew. Still, If Slew hung around for one more year it would have been much closer than it was in 1978.
If Affirmed is rated behind Spectacular Bid by some analysts now, it won't last. The Triple Crown and head to head victory take care of it. But I understand the frustration.
@brunoaltimino Affirmed is ranked in the top 12 all-time of nearly every legitimate poll or ranking system that exists. Affirmed gets his right due... Laffit Pincay has said many times Affirmed was the best horse her ever rode.
@brunoaltimino Despite that Seattle Slew in their Marlboro was well rested & despite that Affirmed was still making starts (with Alydar was on the sidelines) or despite Steve Cauthen--dozing at the break--and Affirmed's throat infection (which undoubtedly detracted form the enthusiasm with which Affirmed would invariably stalk, and then take the lead, then begin PLAYING with his foes), this 2nd loss to Slew is as easily excused. ..If only Pincay had stayed aboard from Affirmed's 2-year old days
@JayAr709 Too many "would have, could have, should have's" will not elevate Affirmed above Slew. The results were very decisive. That does not change the fact that Affirmed was one of the greatest horses of all time. It's not important that Affirmed could not beat Slew. We all know that Affirmed would be a huge threat in any race in any generation.
@brunoaltimino Affirmed COULD beat Slew and he could beat him SOUNDLY (particularly at age 4 --had Sew not retired,so lightly raced) just as Affirmed DID defeat Exceller. By 8 lengths. In SA Hcp-/ track record- time -- breaking the record (shared by Spectacular Bid & Bold Ruler) by 5 fifths of a second. He simply didn't -- over a sample of 2 races -- either while bothered by a throat infection (while Cauthen dozed at the Marlboro start) or while losing all chance because his saddle slipped.
@JayAr709 Look Jay, I too am a huge Affirmed fand and was brokenhearted when he lost to Slew. Maybe Affirmed could have beaten him under certain conditions ( his best chance would have been at a mile and a half). If he ever beat him with a rabbit as they attempted in the JCGC there would be very little credit. Slew was a freak with incredible speed and stamina. Slew really pummeled Affirmed here, clearly outrunning him head to head. Those fractions were too much. Gotta give the nod to Slew
The use of a "rabbit' to pressure the pace, is not inherently shameful, as you seem to imply. Seattle Slew was making his 2nd start -- after sitting-out about a year. (In his life, Slew made 17 starts!) Affirmed was here, after a season against Alydar (who was, by then, enjoying a mcuh deserved rest.) Cauthen redundantly pressed the pace. Pincay would have had Affirmed stalking (& would have matched strides with Cordero, earlier, in the Marlboro). But PUMMELLED? (Saddle slip! Throat infection!)
This is simply the greatest race run by a racehorse..Seattle Slew ran 1 1/2 miles in fractions of 22 3/5, 45 1/5, and 109 3/5 and still came on late and almost won ..A couple of notes..Between Seattle Slew's 3 and 4 yr. old campaigns, he almost died with a bad viral infection @ high fever..That is why his 4 yr old campaign was not good. Took 6 months to get right. Affirmed's saddle slipped at top of the stretch, he was already wasted by then. Best race run by a horse that did not win the race
@furlongfractions And I hope that Charles Wittingham is roasting in hell for not lifting a finger to save neither Exceller nor Ferdinand even though THEY made good money for him. He was a vicious,unfeeling old bastard and I wish we had slaughterhouses to send useless old trainers to.
@DanielSong39 Who're you going to believe, the facts? or your lying eyes? :) This race is an optical illusion. Beyond question it shows us a 3-crown champ, at age 4, battling bravely, in losing to an older handicap star. But when viewers only see Affirmed backing up, dismissing his saddle slip, my gorge becomes buoyant. (Only time out of the money ..Make sense?) Alydar, at 3, beat Slew-slayer J.O.Tobin by 10! Affirmed beat Exceller by over 7! Heck, neither Slew NOR Secretariat raced very often..
@JayAr709 You should also watch the 1978 Woodward and Marlboro Cup, when Seattle Slew crushes Exceller and Affirmed, respectively. Yes, this race is an optical illusion, because Seattle Slew was too keyed up and sprinted through the first 6 furlongs. We saw what happened under normal circumstances in the Woodward and the Marlboro Cup.
Affirmed was excellent in 1979 and deserved Horse of the Year. However, we're talking about 1978, when Seattle Slew was the best.
@DanielSong39 Eclipse voters correctly awarded 1978 to Affirmed. They were able to excuse Affirmed's 2 finishes behind Slew (only one of which, Slew won) & sort out that Affirmed's 3-yr old year was stronger than that of 4-yr old Slew, who raced 7 times, won 5, & placed twice, earning $473,006 (*includes both questionable results over Affirmed, a 3-yr old). By contrast, in '78 Affirmed raced 11 times, won 8, & placed twice, earning $901,541 (*includes the 2 behind Slew) and 3 crowns over ALYDAR
@JayAr709 Wow, you're questioning Seattle Slew's performance in the Marlboro Cup? Now that was a thumping.
Affirmed did well against a group of three-year-olds early in the year but lost three in a row to end his season - DQ in the Travers, the Marlboro and the Jockey Club Gold cup. Exceller had a better record vs. tougher competition and so did Seattle Slew.
Affirmed was great in '79, despite the two losses to start the year (a five-race losing streak in total).
@DanielSong39 Here Affirmed's saddle slipped; Cordero, atop Alydar, "hammed up" the lane violation by which Affirmed was DQ'd (I've seen more credible "acting" in the NBA); Cauthen slept at the break, for Slew's Marlboro. As for those 2 (essentially mud) races, I watched them firsthand: (This was while Cauthern was struggling thru an 0-for-106 riding slump. When Pincay took over Affirmed won by 10!) Recap: J.O.Tobin beat Slew; Alydar stomped J.O.Tobin; Affirmed blitzed Exceller, who got by Slew
@JayAr709 I think it would be best to talk about Affirmed's greatness in the video for 1979 Jockey Club Gold Cup, where he defeated Spectacular Bid. Not in a race where he was rank early, struggling in the middle and backed up late.
Now that we have watched him defeat 2 Triple Crown winners, let's take a minute to remember that he was sent to a slaughterhouse by an owner who " could no longer afford to put resources into an investment that was paying diminishing returns'.
No matter what Affirmed's saddle problems were or what kind of ride Cordero gave Slew, it takes nothing away from Exceller.
A very informative race. Exceller, was a little behind the very best in Europe, but just too good for the American champions. The best horse in Europe at this time was Alleged, who would have dealt with all of these very easily.
@tigerboy1966 Observe Steve Cauthen's repeated attempts to re-center, shifting in the irons while the saddle was slipping. ...As for Exceller (over whom Seattle Slew could manage only a 4-length margin of victory in their only other meeting), Exceller was "up the track" behind Affirmed, in Affirmed's record-setting '79 Santa Anita H'cap. So If Exceller was only "a little behind" Europe's best, that puts 'em all behind the 2 Triple Crown champs; Alleged's 9 for 10 record is questionable, as well
CMON NOW , ...... ANYONE WHO'S STILL ALIVE KNOW'S THAT ANYTIME BILL SHOEMAKER AND CHARLIE WHITTINGHAM TEAMED UP IN MONEY RACES, ....... YOU COULD REST ASSURE IT WAS IN THE BAG. - Douglas Leifi
@DL261 When the rent is due "bet on the SHOE" They were and still are the best tandem in racing....If the horse was owned by Mary Jones Bradley...fahhgettabouitttt...cash the ticket!
What makes this race so special is all the sub plots.Slew breaking through the gate, Cordero losing his stirrup, Affirmed's sadlle slipping. But most of all the torrid pace that Slew maintained and almost won. Props to Exceller
I agree with you Z-HOY about Bid. He might be a notch below Red, MOW and Citation, but I believe he is right there with Kelso, Forego, Dr. fager, etc... But i do not think the age difference in the JCGC is as big advantage as you might think. the race is run in the fall. The 3-4 year old advantage starts to disappear late summer/early fall in most cases. Still my fave race though.
@bunkhouse Sorry to disagree with you. Huge advantage for a great 4 year old running against a great 3 year old anytime during a 3 year olds season. Affirmed endured the rigors of the Triple Crown races earlier that season and an especially tough TC because of his duels with Alydar. Any 3 year who goes through that will only beat good 4 year olds later that year not champions or legens like Seattle Slew was. Case in point, Lookin' At Lucky vs. Blame and Zenyatta.
The saddle slipping was was the lesser of Slews advantage. Come on, you have to know what a big advantage a legendary 4 year old has over a legendary 3 year old. Affirmed (4) beat Spectacular Bid (3). Does that make Affirmed better than Bid? In my opinion if Slew, Bid and Affirmed ran 1 1/4 all being 4 years old, Spectacular Bid would beat both of them.
rofl. Both Slew and Affirmed were great horses. Some East Coast morons like you make a moronic comment like "Some California idiots still believe Affirmed was better than the "Slew. Not even close if u ask me." First of all Affirmed's saddle slipped in this race. Secondly Affirmed was only a 3 year old while Slew was 4. Slew lost this race to an older horse, Exceller who was never in Affirmed's league. Get your facts before casting stones.
Actually, Affirmed's saddle slip was the best thing that ever happened to his reputation. It was hardly at the outset of the race. Affirmed was cooked. He would have lagged badly regardless, and the contrast of Slew's rally and Affirmed's collapse would have left no doubt toward the comparative caliber.
Great, great horse but not quite in Slew's league.
@AwsiDooger Affirmed was better. if Dr. Patches embarrassed Slew, J.0.Tobin had already ledt him a badly beaten 4th, 16 lengths behind. Neither of these 2 spoilers could best Alydar, still less Affirmed. The wildcard is Exceller, whom Slew could beat by only 4 lengths (if Slew wasn't losing): Exceller was well back of Affirmed in the S.A. Hcp., where Affirmed (on the wrong lead) set the stakes record. ...At four, Affirmed TOYED with Spectacular Bid & Coastal, turning back all 5 tries to get by.
Your an idiot. Seattle Slew had just come off taxing wins in the Triple Crown. It was barely one month after he won it. Once again when Dr.Patches beat him, he was exhausted. So what Affirmed got beat as a 3 y. He beat Spectacular Bid when the Bid was a 3 yo. No one seems to talk about that? Idiot, Seattle Slew was much better than him. Spectacular Bid being a little better than him.
@queenluciaa Your remarks are largely incomprehensible to me, so I'll let your insults go. I doubt that you have understood my comments correctly, regardless. I won't fault your drawing a line through Slew's losses to J.O., & to Patches; I, myself, discount Affirmed's losses to Radar Ahead & to Little Reb (in Santa Anita winter rains): I just don't buy that such outcomes, nor Slew's *theft* above, could ever have taken place, with Pincay up. ...Slew never faced an Alydar. There's the difference.
Affirmed was actually lucky. Alydar never switched leads in the stretch, and still always came in heads apart from beating him. Seattle Slew's losing performance in this race was probably the best effort ever given by a horse. If it weren't for Affirmed's insecure owners for entering a rabbit, Slew would have blown this race away.
@queenluciaa Lol, see Affirmed vs.'Bid & Coastal, for 4- vs. 3yr old fairness. Life's Hope = honest pace. Affirmed's EQUIPMENT FAILURE is what blew this race-his only time out of the money. It was Alydar, & Slew, who were lucky; Lucky that Pincay (10 for 10 on Affirmed) wasn't aboard all those OTHER races. Craftier & more muscular than Cauthen, Pincay opened up Affirmed's *economical* victory margins, nor would he have taken doubtful chokeholds & given races away, early, to Slew-gunning Corderos
Honest pace? HONEST PACE? Your saying that setting fractions like 22:60 for the quarter, and 45:20 for the half, are 'Honest fractions'? Well how blind are you? Those are UNHEARD of fractions for the marathon race. AwsiDooger was right, the saddle slip was the best thing to ever happen to his reputation. He would have been so cooked in that race, It would be kind of sad. Seattle Slew went on to beat Exceller by 4 in the Woodward, he was obviously the better horse of both of them.
@queenluciaa It was the worst, for this saddle slip-& Cauthen's prior restraint-denied Affirmed his best evidence. Affirmed was never "cooked," nor was he ever in danger of BEING cooked; Slew WAS cooked however, & badly beaten. (See Alydar's Whitney, against older horses ...& J.O.Tobin:) Horses that beat Affirmed were either slop-lovers during Cauthen's 0-for-106 slump, or greats such as you see, here-helped by racing luck. (Oh- & when Aff went on to beat Exc-it was by 7 lngths., a track record
Badly beaten? Your calling being beat by a desperate nose badly beaten. Give me whatever your smoking, because that is nonsense. That was the most incredible loss I've ever seen, only Secretariat could handle those fractions and prevail. Yes I do think Affirmed would have most definately performed better had the saddle not slipped, but he would have been nowhere near Slew and Exceller. IMO
@queenluciaa I meant J.O.Tobin ('77 Swaps Stakes). You may excuse Slew's loss to Dr. Patches, as well. No one is suggesting Slew was not a great horse. The facts remain: J.O.Tobin was in turn utterly destroyed BY ALYDAR (in The Whitney) and Affirmedf's 'Big Cap margin over Exceller was an emphatic 7 lengths. (Secretariat likely dominated a soft crop. ....Be that as it may.). In comparing champions, thoughtful analysts factor freak mishaps & adolescent rides into their thinking. So should we.
@ZenyattaHOY Your even funnier. To say Exceller was never in Affirmed's league is laughable. Exceller was a turf horse and beat the best ,,,ummmm..on the DIRT.I'm sorry how many turf races did Affirmed win....exactly!
@DIGBYS no you are the funny one trying to compare a grass horse to a Triple Crown winner. Did Exceller ever win a Triple Crown? Exceller was a great horse but Affirmed was a legend. Numbers don't lie.
Affirmed 29-22-5-1 for 2.4 million (which included the last Triple Crown Champ in the past 32 years)
Exceller 33-15-5-6 for 1.7 million
One is a legend the other was a great horse. And both were champions.
Just as a fan of the sport, Secretariat and Affirmed's Belmonts always gave me chills. But the more I watch this race it becomes more my favorite race of all-time.
I watched this with Hall of famer Olin Gentry at Darby Dan farms in his office. His comment after the race" that may be the best race I have ever seen a horse run". This from a man that thought that Man 'o War would have spotted Secretariat 10 lengths in the Belmont and won
Could Slew have beaten Dr Fager at a mile? that's laughable.. of course not. The bigger question is THIS. Can you name ANY other horse that could have done what Seattle Slew did here?
In case you don't remember, Affirmed's saddle slipped and his jock could not control him. His entry mate Life's Hope was supposed to be used as a rabbit to make Slew go too fast on the front end. He did but Affirmed also did the same unintentionally due to his saddle problems. I am not pointing this out to make an excuse for Affirmed altho it is a good one . i am pointing out just how brutal the pace was for Slew due to these events. That he was able to continue and almost win this was shocking
@glpolites ROFLMAO...........yea well, i was certain RA would have handed Z her ass on a plate in 2009.......but obviously not a chance in 2010.....still would have been nice to see Z run somewhere other than southern Cal....oh well.......in the meantime lets enjoy Slew, the absolute supreme running machine.........................he woulda beat Sec on heart alone, i dont care about the numbers Sec put up, when he lost he looked awful...
To Awi's- You should disable all the comments on your videos as you only attract those who are a cancer- like the worthless RSCarbro. When you allow comments to be posted, you only attract all the dumb ***** .
RSCARBRO- All you've done to the horse racing comment areas on You Tube is turn them into a pissy fit contest. You're worthless and all you can do is post stupidity all over You Tube- it is a sad thing that you have a computer. Both were great horses- the fact that Slew ran the Champagne much faster compared to Red- that makes Slew a far better two year old- based on your retarded logic.
@HollywoodParkSteward Its a sad thing you haven't got a brian. Not one thing I have posted here is a lie But truth. Thats something you cannot stand. Seattle Slew was one hell of a horse But he never did what Big Red done. I have even put up excuses for Slew in this race And the one with J.O. Tobin. I bet you never would take up for Secretariat. Why, because you hate his guts. If anyone stupid or worthless its you 'KID'. You Slew lovers are nothin but one sided & 'Bias'.
@rscarbro100 - You mistake me for your father since you play the fool. Excuse me for taking 4 months to respond- I don't take part in You Tube and I only signed in today as I was going to post Affirmed's HWJC, however, it would involve talking with worthless idiots-like yourself. Imbeciles who argue for no reason. Your facts mean nothing as you come across as the complete asshole-it's who you are. No true horseman who loves the sport would come across as the shithead you are.
Also, You will forgive me for not responding for 4 months- I don't bother with You Tube- I was going to post the video of Affirmed's HWJC, but I checked my mail first- LMFAO! You are about as mentally screwed as one could be! No true horseman would be such an absolute shithead as you are comparing great horses like Red & Slew. It isn't the facts you post, it's the point that you're a complete asshole. I'm glad I checked my mail- I hadn't posted any vids here and I won't bother now.
@HollywoodParkSteward I do forgive you for not replying for 4 months. I guess after 4 months of searching for reasons why Slew was better than Secretariat you came up empty once again. Did you ever read what Jean Cruguet said about Slew? Hell, he said he wasn't the best horse he ever rode. Maybe he wasn't the best of all time. He ran against no opposition.Write to the man that rode him & tell him what a 'Asshole' he is. Most 'Shit' as you call it came from the great horesman of the game.Cont.
@HollywoodParkSteward Your calling Charles Hatton, Holly Hudges, Teddy Cox & many more mentally screwed up for comparing horses. Guess Eddie Arcaro And Pincay were as well according to you. Yelp, these 2 jockey's said Secretariat was the best of all time. The point is you think you know more than these few I listed here. What are your credentials? I can back up everything these great horseman ever quoted. Yours is just talk without nothing to back it up dip shit.
I'm starting to see your point about all of the Secretariat fans. Here we see a great race between three legends - in one of the greatest horse races of all time.
Great effort from Seattle Slew, though he came up short. Exceller was in the midst of a 7 for 10 season with wins on turf and dirt, all vs. open company.
Let's celebrate the participants of this race and celebrate Secretariat in a race he participates in.
Perhaps Cordero could've done more to slow Seattle Slew down. We'll never know. However, whether he would've been successful is another story - it all comes down to training, and how the horse responds to the jockey.
Seattle Slew was a frontrunner all his life, and I have yet to see a race where he was comfortably rated behind a fast pace. It's more probable that he would've been rank early instead of settling in nicely. Clearly Slew was way too keyed up and that was the real culprit.
@DanielSong39 Cordero might have been afraid he would fall off if he made a change trying to slow him down. He was motionless until he seen Exceller coming like a freight train But by then Slew was slowed quite a bit before he got to the 1 1/4 mile post.
Seattle Slew is under a tight hold for the majority of the race and Cordero isn't successful in rating him until the middle of the backstretch. Cordero finally urges Slew about 3 furlongs from the wire, but he is spent and comes up a nose short despite a tremendous effort.
Can't blame the jockey for this one. No evidence that Cordero gunned Seattle Slew for the first 6 furlongs. The horse did that all on his own...
@DanielSong39 You said Slew was under a tight hold but he was going for the world record for 6 furlong distance. in a 1 1/2 mile race? Who told you that? Big Red workout in 'MUD' was 1:09 1/5. He was not going all out in his workouts. Just like the Belmont on a track rated fast were he ran the 6 furlongs in 1:09 4/5. Just think if they pushed Big Red in that workout on a fast track (not Mud) for 6 furlongs. I feel the jockey could have slowed Slew down somewhat. They do after the race. right?
@DanielSong39 He slowed down considerably after 6 furlongs. Why, he was tired. Very tired. He picked it up once Cordero seen Exceller coming like a freight train urging him on with hand & whip. He ran his heart out & almost pulled it off. A tremendous performance by Slew. Hats off to him. I wish he had won. I still feel Cordero could have pulled on the reins & pressure on the sturps some more to hold him back. That is just my opinion. The better horse lost. Your right, Cordero did not gun him.
@DanielSong39 I have searched ways to slow down a horse. Laura Thompson is a horseback instructor in Houston, TX. Her quote:
Riders often forget that they are in control when on a horse's back. It is the rider who decides whether to slow a horse's gait, and if a horse is racing too fast, the rider isn't doing his or her job. Slowing down the speedy horse is a matter of reducing speed through all of the rider's aids End of quote.
The half-halt is extremely effective for slowing a horse's gait. Pull back gently for two seconds, then release, reminding the horse that the rider is in control and is asking for something.
Additionally, riders can slow a horse's gait by creating a wall with their knees. Closing the knees around the saddle automatically closes off the horse's shoulders, reducing speed and forward momentum.
One would hope that common sense would eventually prevail.
Seattle Slew, Secretariat, and even Affirmed were all legendary horses and the sport benefited from their performances.
However, let's face it - if they went up against each other on the track at their peak, we wouldn't have a clue as to which horse would win. Heck, a nobody could leave all of them up the track. That's why they call it horse racing.
Let's just appreciate Exceller's superb win and Seattle Slew's valiant efforts.
@DanielSong39 Common sense will tell you that if a horse like Secretariat who ran a 1:59 2/5 Derby, a 1:53 2/5 Preakness, a 2:24 Belmont, a 1:45 2/4 M.C. & ran another furlong 'Gallop Out' in 1:57 4/5 is the 'CLUE' that this is the hoss to bet on. Its a 'No Brainer'. Maybe you were not informed of just how fast Secretariat is coming off the line my good man. Read William Nack's SI Vault article Lucien trained a 'Flying Horse' where he ran his last workout before his 3 yr. old season.Cont:
@rscarbro100 Yet people still bet on Onion. And Prove Out. And cashed in, big time. He ended his career 1 for 3 vs. open competition on dirt, compared to 14 for 16 against age-restricted company. That's a pretty big difference.
Horse racing is not that easy to predict. No horse is money in the bank, not even Secretariat or Seattle Slew. On any given day, any horse can win. Anyone who has seen enough races would realize that.
@DanielSong39 I agree with you 100% my good man. anything can happen in any kind of racing But if I had the big money I would bet on Big Red.& think way more would than not. Might lose But will also bet my chances are pretty darn good. I seen what happen to Big Red. Penny knew he was running a fever on & off before the Whitney & Steve Haskins said they should have never enter the Woodward & same with Slew in the Swaps race.. Yes, goes to show nothing is guarantee. Even the great 'Titanic' sunk.
@DanielSong39 Thats a false staement and designed to discredit the horse. The Whitney wasnot an open race. Sec final four races were "open". 2 on dirt and 2 on turf. He was 3 of 4 with a world record at 1 1/8 miles, shattered tghe track record at the MOW, eased in the Canadian Intl or he would have broke that record, to. Loss in the WW running 2:26 and 3/5, roughly the 3rd or 4th fastest mile and a half on dirt in history...and in the mud.
@DanielSong39 The credntiola caried by Riva Ridge in the 1973 MC were...Eclipse winner as a 2YO and 4yo, 1972 KD and Belmont winner, world record holder at 1 3/16th's miles. He...was...4YO...against Sec...3YO...you still dont seem to have grasped that point. Key to the Mint was the 1972 Eclipse winner, 3 YO horse. At 80% Sec sets the WR with ease, a hand ride.
@DanielSong39 I have forgotten Danny. Did Slew ever run against older champion horses, setting records while he did it. How many times? What were the distances?
How old was Exceller? what is his rating? #97? Riva ridge is 40 spots higher and an older champion horse.
@DanielSong39 It was March 14 a few weeks before his 3rd birthday. Yelp, a 2 year old still. Worked a 3/8 mile. Lucien told Ron to let him roll. With stop watch in hand Laurin stopped him in 33 3/5 sec, Oh my God Laurin said. Most horse don't run it in 34 sec. He asked Watson for comfirmation high up in the tower, Laurin got the message & his jaw dropped to the ground. The message was the electronic timer had it in 32 3/5 seconds. Fastest workout ever in the state of N.Y.
I will say that I cannot see were anyone can argue that no horse in history showed the greatness what Secretariat did as a 3 year old with those many spectacular performances he had, Even his record breaking 'Workouts' he had leaving the experts stracthing their heads. Not only his Derby & Belmont records still not broken to this day but his record at Belmont Park of 1:45 2/5 on that track is still not broken for a 1 1/8 mile distance. His Preakness has only been tied. What else can I say??
We all can sit here all day & argue the excuses, explaination or whatever you want to call it why Secretariat, Slew, The Bid & all the great horses why they lost, Common sense will tell you that Big Red Whitney & The Wood were fluke races just as well as Slew's race in the Swaps & this race here as well, We know who were the better horses even when they lost, Slew much better than Dr. Patches.Thats horse racing whatever the reasons & they are many, many why even great ones lose. Cont.
Cordero's ride here was bad IMO, but I do agree he had to deal with the rabbit and Affirmed. A very bad ride got Bid beat in the Belmont. Two dispicably bad rides by Day got the better horse Easy Goer beat very narrowly by an inch and neck.
@EASYGOERFLIES Cordero couldn't do anything. Seattle Slew was way too keyed up for this race and even broke through the gate. Once the race started he flew through six furlongs and it was Affirmed and Life's Hope who were struggling to keep pace.
If anything I'm going to put that on the trainer and not the jockey. It's the same thing that got Smarty Jones beat. You have to get the horse in the right shape to run a 1 1/2 mile race - not beat Dr. Fager's record for the mile.
@DanielSong39 Your right my good man. You just have to get a horse in good shape expecially for a 1 1/2 mile race. Most all horses that run a fast pace will tire enormously by the times he hits the last 1/4 mile. Nack said Secretariat was the fitess horse he ever seen before the Belmont race. He show it the last 1/4 mile after tha fast pace in Belmont history. Heywood Boun stated he was not tired nor worked up a lather after the race.
@DanielSong39 I agree Slew was going to damm fast & it cost him the race. I can still hear Nack & the rest in the 1973 Belmont hollering your going to damm fast, he just lost the horse & what else was said? Nope, he kept going like a 'Tremendous Machine' And that was the difference between Big Red & Slew. Slew just could not keep going like a 'Tremendous Machine' even at 4 years of age in a 1 1/2 mile race. I would say Big Red was really 'Keyed Up' for that Belmont race too. Right??
@EASYGOERFLIES A bad ride did not get The Bid a loss in the Belmont. Read Red Smith "To The Swift'. He tired just like the other 8 horses befrore him that won the Derby & Preakness. Even Delp said Ronnie did a great job & seen nothing he did wrong. These are Smith & Delp's remarks not mine.
@rscarbro100 Bud Delp must have changed his thoughts alot. Go read this article: "1980 Horse of the Year Spectacular Bid Dies" from the LA Times on June 11, 2003. Delp says, "I STILL believe Bid would have won have won had Ronnie ridden a better race." Secondly, most,if not all,experts see that ride as very bad. Franklin chased a 100-1 shot and moved much too early in a mile and a half race. But that's just my opinion.
@EASYGOERFLIES I read that article my good man. You better read it again. That was Bob Miezerski the staff writer that made them remarks not Delp. He might have won it if it was a slower pace. But Coastal might have ran a slower pace & ran the last 1/4 even faster. One thing for sure it showed he was not another Secretariat. As you know how fast a pace Big Red ran & held it.
@rscarbro100 My good brother, Bob Miezerski stated in the article that Bid was compromised by a a safety pin and an ill-timed ride by the jockey. Delp's qoute directly from his mouth on page 2 of the article was, "I still believe Bid would have won had Ronnie ridden a better race.It was the only race in his life where another horse passed him in the stretch." Bid's only other race at 12F was a 3/4length loss to the great older horse Affirmed.If your point is Bid was no Sec,then you are right.
@EASYGOERFLIES The safety pin was Delp's excuse that came later. When Delp went back to barn 14 he did not mention nothing about a safety pin. He said there was no excuse for the loss & Franklin rode a good ride. Why did he change his mind later?? To show face since he said The Bid was the best to ever look through a bridle?? Red Smith said he tired like all the other horses did before him. Even a pace he ran usually do most all horses in at the Belmont.
@EASYGOERFLIES I don't think Affirmed being 4 was the reason for The Bid's loss. Affirmed ran a faster 1 1/2 mile as a 3 year old in the Belmont. I think The Bid was stronger & better at 4 than 3. But Affirmed did not get better IMO as a 4 year old. The Bid was a very great horse just like Slew & Affirmed. Yes I think Secretariat was a 'NOTCH' better than these 3 horses & more than proved it. I just love all these horses!
@EASYGOERFLIES Affirmed would not be matching strides early, if Life's Hope was a "rabbitt". L H was there to ensure an honest pace. As for jockeys and their relative performance, Cauthen can't be blamed for Affirmed's equipment failure, alhough it (justifiably) cast doubt on the race outcome. Previously, Cordero had simply gunned A Fresh Horse (after Alydar defected), just as J.O.Tobin "stole away" from Slew. (The fact remains, no horse EVER finished in front of Affirmed, with Laffit Pincay up)
Exceller proved that he was better than Affirmed in '78, let alone Seattle Slew.
Affirmed was good in '79 but he needed binoculars to find the top handicap horses in '78.
Affirmed was a special horse as well and deserves his spot among the all-time greats. But let's get serious now. Against Slew, he is always going to come up on the short end.
Let's not forget that Prove Out finished 4 1/2 lengths ahead of Secretariat in that 1973 Woodward race where Secretariat finished in 2:26.6. He completed the 1 1/2 mile trip through heavy slop in 2:25 and change. Steve Haskins said no horse could have defeated Prove Out that day. That was one of the all time great performances by a thoroughbred.
This race further enhances Slews stature as a great horse. Blazing fractions for a race of this distance on an off track, getting passed in the stretch and still coming back at Exceller who had no rabbits to deal with and the perfect trip along the rail. Some may call it excuses for not winning but I would think most agree SS was a great horse who ran a great race in defeat.
@joefederico Mike Resnick wrote for Bloodhorse, American Turf, Horseman Journal, etc. quoted:
Strangely enough, you get your second-fastest times not on good tracks, but on sloppy ones, because if there's standing water on the track, it means that it hasn't soaked in and the track is reasonably hard beneath the water. Good and slow tracks are tiring, End of quote. Now my good man you know a little more today than you did yesterday.(smile)
@rscarbro100 I have been commenting in the "other" 1978 Marlboro Cup video. Keep up the good work. They simply cannot argue based on facts and performances. All is based on speculation and innuendo.
Angel Cordero may have rode a very bad race here, but he had to deal with a rabbit, and a not so controllable Affirmed when the saddle slipped. But two atrocious rides by Day got the better throughbred,Easy Goer, beat a nose and neck. EasyGFiles, your analysis is spot on. We all knew Cordero should have been his jockey.
Unlike Cordero's bad ride here. Pat Day's dispicable ride when he got the better horse,Easy Goer, beat a nostril may have the worst ever. Pat Day made THREE huge mistakes to get the better horse beat, 1)Day moved much much too prematurely with a machine gun early move because Valenzuela took him out to the middle of the track down the backstretch, 2)He got outmanuevered for the homestretch scraping the rail 3)He cost EG the win by JERKING his head right befofe the line.
Kind of like Pat Day's Horrendous and horrible ride that got Easy Goer beat in the Preakness by a nose. Day sent him through a Much too early move, was caught in scraping the fence in the stretch, and he still would have won if he didnt cock His Head right Before the Wire.
The "Slew showed what a champion re really was on this day. Imagine going 45 .1 and 109 in a mile and a half race. insane Slew was not a mile and a half horse but he was a the best horse ever at Belmont. I don't think there is a horse that could ever beat him at a one turn mile. Maybe Dr Fager but that is debatable. Slew crushed rivals and could go as fast as possible to get the lead.
Some California idiots still believe Affirmed was better than the "Slew. Not even close if u ask me.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
To thelongshot99. Lay off Californians Seattle Slew was a better horse than Affirmed that is a fact. However why don't you menton the stupid ride that Angel Cordero gave Seattle Slew in this race. One of the stupidest rides I have ever seen. Seattle Slew lost the race cause of a dumb ass ride. Shoemaker beat him cause Shoemaker used his brains and Cordero lost cause he rode the race like he had none. And by the way at a mile Dr. Fager would blow him off the track. NY Idiot
@thelongshot99 Slew never ran a mile faster than Secretariat nor any distance. If your amazed at 'Speed' then Slew doesn't come close to Big Red. Look at Slew & Big Red Derby wins. Slew the last 1/4 mile in 27 1/5 seconds to Big Red 23 flat. Also notice Slew was hit at least 10 times coming down the stretch. Both ran on fast track. Big Red record time in 1:59 2/5. Slew 2:02 1/5. No comparison. Imagine going 23 flat last quarter in the Derby.
@bbmtge WOW, I just checked. It was a grand total of 'Three' races my good man.He got the 2 year old horse of the year award. I guess they thought them 3 races he won was T.C. races for 2 year olds or does it show the poor competition for the year 1976.(smile)
For guys with blind folded fixation on time, yourself and bbmtge make pathetic gaffes. Slew was eased over the final sixteenth of the Derby, per usual. The fractions were 1:36 mile to 2:02 1/5. In what warped world does that equal 27 1/5? LOL.
@AwsiDooger You gotta be 'Totally' kidding me. He stumble at the gate slightly & then moved quickly between horses to take 2nd place before the 1/4 post. I just watched the video once again & anyone can see he was hit the last time with the crop well past the last 1/16 marker. Slew did not slow up hardly none at all to the finish. If you want to call that 'Eased up' once he was quit been whipped then Secretariat was 'Eased up all through his strecth run. He was hit 11 times in his strecth drive.
@AwsiDooger For some reason or the other I was thinking the mighty Slew ran that mile in a 1:35. I believe I read somewhere a Slew lover said he did. I should have never believed him.(smile) I think he was the one that said Secretariat would have never caught him because that pace was so fast. I'm still trying to figure that one out & yours too. I guess only the people that are perfect like you is the ones that do not have a warped mind.
@AwsiDooger Iguess you need to watch the video a bit more, doogie. In the last 1/16th of a mile, I count 3 pops to the rear and a neck scrub. The horse does not ease until just prior ot the finish. Keep lying my friend. It suits youj. Also, I guess 26 1/5 is btter than 27 1/5..but I think it's a bit slower than 23. Of course, to a horse who lived and died by his 3/4 fraction, time means nothing.
I'll let you and bbmtge return to hugging Secretariat pillows and making desperate comments on an unrelated video, but here's one intrusion of reality:
"Seattle Slew was the most deserving winner in the history of the Kentucky Derby," declared the late Louisville newspaperman Mike Barry, who was present for all but four of the Churchill Downs classic races from 1922 through 1991. "In all the Derbies I've seen, I never saw a horse have as much trouble as Seattle Slew had and still win the race."
I've seen AwsiDooger make the fast 1973 Belmont argument before and I have some abbreivated (race no., distance, time) charts that confirm what he's saying from Secretariat's 3 track record days that year. June 9 7Bel 1 1/16 1:40 4/5 (1/5 off TR) 8Bel 1 1/2 2:24 NTR Sep 15 6Bel 1 1/8 1:46 1/5 ETR 7Bel 1 1/8 1:45 2/5 NTR 8Bel 1 1/16 1:40 2/5 NTR Oct 8 5Bel 1 1:33 3/5 ETR 7Bel 1 1/2T 2:24 4/5 NCR
@sbloomer What are you saying my good man? Those tracks were super fast?? Did you not hear Woodie Broun made the statement the Dreby track was fast but not lighnting fast. When Beyer, Christ & Watchmaker was calculating Big Red speed figure the track variant was .08 to .09 to come to a 138 Beyer figure.It would have never made it to that high of a number if that track was lightning fast. You Secretariat haters won't stop at nothing to down grade him.You will try to find anything that will.
Same day as Secretariat's Marlboro, a 3 year old filly tied the existing Belmont track record, 1:46 1/5.
Are you trying to tell me a 3 year old filly was equal to, or superior than, any horse who had even run 9 furlongs in the long history of Belmont Park? LOL.
The time based arguments are absurd if you use them as an absolute. Sham is devastating proof. He won half his races, only 1 Grade 1, but was within 2.5 lengths in the Derby and Preakness.
@AwsiDooger Do you have any figures to back up "Belmont was freakishly fast throughout 1973"? Looking at the times for the top races at the track that year the only ones that stand out are Desert Vixen in the Beldame, which you mention, and Secretariat. None of the others really leap off the page, but I was only looking at the biggest races.
@tigerboy1966, good question. 8 main track records were set at Belmont in the spring and summer of 1973. 5 were set between May 19 and June 9, Belmont Stakes day. When I started handicapping seriously in spring 1980 using track variants, par times and speed figures I was astonished to notice 7 existing Belmont track records dating to a brief stretch of the same year. No other track was similar. I looked at every major track in the country. I've not seen it again. It's been conveniently ignored.
@AwsiDooger Andrew Byer was the King of handicappers my good man. He rated the track as a .08 to .09 variant in the 1973 Belmont. This was taken into consideration when him, Watchmaker & Christ arrive at a 138 speed figure. Big Red got there in 2:24 not because of a lightning fast track which it wasn't But because he was the fitess & had the biggest 'Oxygen' tank than any horse ever had.
@tigerboy1966 He has no figure other than the ones he makes up. He is solely prejudicial in thought. The only thing he is relegated to is to claim the track alone produced these records. It is the famous conspiracy of 1973/ All track that Sec ran on were doctored.
@bbmtge You got that right my good man. But we gotta agree with AwsiDooger after I did some thinking on the subject. That is: Slew did "Deserve' to win the Derby. Any horse that got the shit beat out of him that many times (11) going down the stretch indeed 'Deserves" to win.(smile) I don't believe Sham was hit that many times. I couldn't tell because him & Secretariat was going so fast you couldn't see it. Is there any way I can slow those Secretarit videos down?(smile)
@bbmtge I guess the Slew lovers didn't know Secretariat ran a 'Workout' in 'MUD' in fractions of 57 2/5, 1:09 1/5, 1:21 3/5 & 1:34 4/5 a record at Saratoga & another furlong 'Gallop Out' for a 1 1/8 in 1:47 4/5 another record at Saratoga. He was running against himself in 'MUD'& thoses fraction times were a 'Blowout' time faster than Slew's Derby time on a fast track. The track condition did not produce these records he broke. They won't mention this will they. Your post is right on.
@tigerboy1966 Yuo see Tigerboy, the poster of this videeo decries racing fractions as meaningless, yet he goes out of his way to aver that it was the TRACKJ that was responsible for Sec Belmont. He does not stop there, he actually has claimed that the time in Sec KD could not have happened as Sham had never run that fast previuosly. It is the thought process that says "it is because I say so". No facts, no figures, no track rating by andrew Beyer is mentioned. He simply says it is so.
@AwsiDooger That thought process assigns Sham an inability to run any faster than you say he was capable. Again, the facts put your prejudices in their place. Derby track of '73 rated a full second slower than that of '64. Your claims as some form of handicapper are a joke. You are certainly handicapped, however.
This gold cup was one of the greatest races ever. I still have the commentary on audio tape. Shoemaker stated that his horse hung in deep stretch, or would probably have won by a greater margin. Slew was a mismanaged colt, Exceller was trained by a master. A word to Televin.I would not rate Cordero above Shoemaker, Arcaro, and certainly not above Pincay, who frequently gave Angel riding lessons when he decided to fly to NYC. I also believe that Bid as a 4 yr old would have swept this field up.
Ninety-nine percent of the race callers would have lost their voice describing this stretch drive. Thank God we we were blessed with the great man who did it justice.
Affirmed could never beat Seattle Slew at any distance. That being said- although the vote was very close- he did deserve to win despite the fact that LB ordered Craig Perret, riding Affirmed's stablemate, Life's Hope, to scream like a banshee at SS.
SS was sick and never should have run in the Swaps- and Cruget was almost taken off just before the start of the Patterson because Cordero caused him to have a panic attack.
sad .
osmiu 16 hours ago
An amazing drive by Exceller. A pox on the people who allowed him to be slaughtered for meat.
voodoobaby405 1 week ago
Exceller was a good horse, but not in their league. The race before, slew beat him clearly. This is the second best race by a racehorse outside of Secretariat's Belmont. First of all, Affirmed was only five lengths back at the head of the stretch and faded. The excuse of the saddle slipping was used but never proven....He obviously could not stay with the Slew. Affirmed was great, but not Slew...Slew also broke thru the gate before the start of this race and that takes a lot our of a horse.
MrRicknagy 1 month ago
@MrRicknagy With respect to Affirmed...the great 4YO will, nearly always, defeat the great 3YO. Even a good 4YO can defeat a great 3YO. Did Affirmed's saddle slip? Of course it did and to say it was never proven is not accurate. Does it mean that Affiremd would have won. Probably not as Cauthen was slumping terribly. As far as Excller, while he does not show a great record, he WAS a great stayer having won many top races in Europe, the U.S and Canada. He was running 1 7/8th's mile races...
bbmtge 1 month ago
@bbmtge ...at 3YO and winning. He won a lot of important races and was a better stayer than either Affirmed or Slew. He, thus, was a great horse just at distances that are not as popular with the public and the media. Remember, too, that Affirmed's 4 YO campaign was exemplary.
bbmtge 1 month ago
@bbmtge by the time affirmeds saddle slipped (top of the strecth) he was already beat....slew was just a better horse....would have loved to see slew go against dr fager going say 1 1/8th
renduke 2 weeks ago
@renduke That is not a correct statement. Further, you seem not to post that Slew was 4 and very well rested for this race as well as the MC. Affirmed was but 3YO and had not only come off of a TC season, but he did it being challenged as no other TC winner had ever been. To avoid detailed analysis of the facts and simply post opinionated rhetoric is parochial.
bbmtge 2 weeks ago
@bbmtge PLEASE Do Not try to school me in the finer points of racing i have been in the game almost 40 years and have been an asst trainer on a major ciruit...I stand by what I said...Yes The 4 Yr Old has the advantage...Yes Affirmed came off a tough campaign...but he got smoked in their 1st meeting...AND was soundly beaten in this race up to the point where his saddle slipped.
If it makes you feel any better when Affirmed was 4 he did beat Spectacular Bid
renduke 2 weeks ago
@renduke I could care less as to how long you CLAIM to have "been in the game". when an individual IGNORES factors/details,makes ridiculous comments,then, they DO need to be schooled. 1) Affirmed; tough campaign but...simply dismissive and prejudiced. 2) Affirmed got smoked; Affirmed gave weight by scale, was 3YO, which, AGAIN you REFUSE to acknowledge, had a throat infectino, Slew ran his FIRST G1 of the year, ran only 3 G1's for the entire year, Slew rested and ready. GET A LIFE!!!
bbmtge 2 weeks ago
Exceller was never in Slew and Affirmed league...you must be kidding. He beat them both! Both were triple crown winners. Exceller was a great horse! Any one who thinks different is a dumb ass.
NotSoNeatFreak 2 months ago
and who really knows how many great horses ended up like excellor and ferdinand. as jess4metoo said, it really is a disgrace on the industry. unfortunatelly, if what i read was right, excellors former owner was interested in finding him but it was a few months too late. what a shame.
bertsmom2011 3 months ago
Thinking of you, Exceller. You'll never be forgotten.
LoriTopazz 4 months ago
What would Slew time be if he was not prepared for this race like Secretariat was in the Woodward? Big Red not trained for 2 weeks coming into the Woodward yet ran a 2:26 2/5 almost 1 second faster than Slew who was a 4 yr. old in top form well prepared.. But Slew was ill in the Swaps and he was not in top form for the Paterson race. He only lost this race beacuse he ran to fast a pace. No way Exceller a better horse nor Tobin.
rscarbro100 4 months ago
Yes, the only horse in history to defeat 2, yes two triple crown winners end up at the slaughter house, a disgrace on the industry.
jess4metoo 5 months ago
Affirmed was a great horse who had a bad day. Affirmed had the Jockey Club Gold Cup; Seattle Slew had the Swaps; Spectacular Bid had the Belmont; Secretariat had the Wood.
Affirmed would put a final stamp on his greatness by turning back Spectacular Bid in the following year's Jockey Gold Cup. His record speaks for itself and no one doubts he is one the legends of the sport.
DanielSong39 5 months ago
Beyond question, the fate of Exceller (& of Ferdinand, & of an unguessable number of our bravest runners) is a blight on the sport, and an obscenity.
Hwever. As long as Seattle Slew and Spectacular Bid (still less Exceller) appear on thoroughbred "best" lists (or even--dare I think it?--Man 'o War and Secretariat) ranked more highly than Affirmed -- lin part, as a result of how this one race is perceived -- the injustice will remain a *thorn in my shoe.* Hence, my notes in support of Affirmed.
JayAr709 5 months ago
Affirmed wasn't at his best on this day. Hey, it happens. It's horse racing.
I think it's best to appreciate Exceller's excellent performance. His middle move was a thing of beauty and he had enough in the tank to hold off an unbelievable game Seattle Slew. It's a Hall of Fame performance from a Hall of Fame horse.
The biggest tragedy isn't Affirmed's sub-par performance or Life Hope's presence as the rabbit, but rather Exceller's undeserved demise.
DanielSong39 5 months ago
That Slew actually dug in and almost won this race is truly amazing. If Dr. Fager was asked to do that at a mile and a half, we'd still be waiting for him to finish.
brunoaltimino 5 months ago
@brunoaltimino Well, but--in fairness--Dr. Fager was apt to be toting--what? 139 pounds, as he did in the Vosburgh? So it's not so surprising that a freshened Seattle Slew at weight-for-age could run as well as this.
Despite Slew's courage, he was unable to cope with sprint champs "on the stretchout" (like J.O. Tobin and Dr. Patches). whereas Affirmed -- even while pinned to the rail & toting 134 (giving 12 lbs and more to Text, Sirlad, & Co.) put up 1:58.40 -- a FIFTH off Noor's world record
JayAr709 5 months ago
The Bid being undefeated and never even pressed--and the prestige of a walkover--at 4 is why he ulitmately gets rated higher than Affirmed and usually Slew, too. But really, these are three of the best horses of all time, all top ten. When you put Secretariat and Forego into the mix, the 1970's were the golden age of racing.
Stevesomma 6 months ago
@Stevesomma 1980 was a down year for three year olds and older horses. Name a memorable 3 year old from that crop besides Genuine Risk. There was no Affirmed or Slew to worry about. Had either been racing that year there would have been no walkover. Affirmed's style turns Bid into weaker version of Alydar. Bid could not (and did not) run down Affirmed, and the 1979 JCGC at weight for age in the fall was very decisive proof of that. Rating Bid above Affirmed is a travesty, above Slew a joke
brunoaltimino 5 months ago
affirmed, slew, bid, who cares horse racing is as dead as jimmy hoffa!
dvdlucs 6 months ago
To say that Affirmed wasn't in Seattle Slew's league might be a big much, but it is true that he wasn't quite as good as Seattle Slew. He lost five races in a row in the middle of his prime, which is more races than Slew or the Bid lost in their entire careers.
While Alydar provided excellent competition for Affirmed, so did horses like JO Tobin, Exceller, and of course Affirmed himself for the great Slew.
Two great champions and they would be followed by another (the Bid).
DanielSong39 7 months ago
Spectacular Bid had a season for the ages in '80 and finished his career with 26 wins in 30 starts.
Too much is made out of the Triple Crown races but let's not forget that they are restricted to 3-year-olds. Secretariat won the Triple Crown easily but lost twice vs. open company, and Affirmed beat Alydar 3 times but lost in the Travers then got stomped on by Seattle Slew and Exceller. Affirmed had a good '79 but not on par with Spectacular Bid's '80 season.
DanielSong39 7 months ago
@DanielSong39 The Bids ' season was arguebly the best season for a older horse in American racing. To the naysayers who think Affirmed and Seattle Slew are better than The Bid, Bid broke eight track records and was 26 for 26 from 6 1/2 to 10 furlongs. Some of those track records still stands and his mile and qtr world record is on par w Secretariat in terms of monumental achievement. Also, Bid ran lame in the Belmont and still hit the board. With a better ride he would of won the triple crown.
jkmooreelle 6 months ago
@DanielSong39 Spectacular Bid's "season for the ages" -as you put it- was a direct result of Affirmed: Not Racing At Age 5. (He was in the barn, breeding.) The cold equations do not exist in a vacuumn. World record times and extended winning streaks are things of beauty. But they are far from comprehensive & we should no more take Results at face value (without regard to bad rides & equipment failures) than we can sensibly bet raw times & margins of victory without reference to troubled trips.
JayAr709 5 months ago
I disagree with AwsiDooger that Affirmed was not in Slew's league. I understand his reasoning based on the two races between the two. But in this particular race, Affirmed somehow ran of with Cauthen, who was in the midst of a terrible slump. The way I see it, if Affirmed had been taken off the pace, Life's Hope would have pushed Slew through a similar 6 furlongs. Just off of basic handicapping we know that Affirmed was capable of a 2:26 and change 1 1/2 miles. Possibly too fast for Slew.
brunoaltimino 7 months ago
@brunoaltimino
I don't remember what I wrote. From your description it sounds like I may have exaggerated something during a back and forth debate. Luckily those have calmed down.
Billy Turner said after this race that Affirmed was not in Slew's league. I probably mentioned that quote.
Affirmed was an awesome horse. I always thought Slew was a small percentage faster and better. If Slew had died or never faced Affirmed, no doubt Affirmed would have been rated higher, and I'd seethed forever.
AwsiDooger 7 months ago
On the Bloodhorse "Top 100 Thoroughbreds of the 20th Century", which came out in 2000, they rated Bid ahead of Affirmed. I wrote a letter to the editor protesting this and the letter was published by the BH in their "Letters to the Editor" sect. Nevertheless, the list has Bid still ahead of Affirmed. As the years go by it becomes more clear that this is a bad error. The achievement of being able to beat a horse the level of Alydar three straight races in the classics is a great achievement.
brunoaltimino 7 months ago
History has not judged Affirmed fairly. That he is rated behind Spectacular Bid after accomplishing more over a better rival (Alydar) and then beating Bid at weight for age in the '79 JCGC should have been enough to settle it. Slew was really strong as a 4 year old in the fall of '78. Moreover, Slew's frontrunning style makes it hard to envision Affirmed getting in front of Slew. Still, If Slew hung around for one more year it would have been much closer than it was in 1978.
brunoaltimino 7 months ago
@brunoaltimino
If Affirmed is rated behind Spectacular Bid by some analysts now, it won't last. The Triple Crown and head to head victory take care of it. But I understand the frustration.
AwsiDooger 7 months ago
@brunoaltimino Affirmed is ranked in the top 12 all-time of nearly every legitimate poll or ranking system that exists. Affirmed gets his right due... Laffit Pincay has said many times Affirmed was the best horse her ever rode.
sargeanthulka 6 months ago
@brunoaltimino Despite that Seattle Slew in their Marlboro was well rested & despite that Affirmed was still making starts (with Alydar was on the sidelines) or despite Steve Cauthen--dozing at the break--and Affirmed's throat infection (which undoubtedly detracted form the enthusiasm with which Affirmed would invariably stalk, and then take the lead, then begin PLAYING with his foes), this 2nd loss to Slew is as easily excused. ..If only Pincay had stayed aboard from Affirmed's 2-year old days
JayAr709 5 months ago
@JayAr709 Too many "would have, could have, should have's" will not elevate Affirmed above Slew. The results were very decisive. That does not change the fact that Affirmed was one of the greatest horses of all time. It's not important that Affirmed could not beat Slew. We all know that Affirmed would be a huge threat in any race in any generation.
brunoaltimino 5 months ago
@brunoaltimino Affirmed COULD beat Slew and he could beat him SOUNDLY (particularly at age 4 --had Sew not retired,so lightly raced) just as Affirmed DID defeat Exceller. By 8 lengths. In SA Hcp-/ track record- time -- breaking the record (shared by Spectacular Bid & Bold Ruler) by 5 fifths of a second. He simply didn't -- over a sample of 2 races -- either while bothered by a throat infection (while Cauthen dozed at the Marlboro start) or while losing all chance because his saddle slipped.
JayAr709 5 months ago
@JayAr709 Look Jay, I too am a huge Affirmed fand and was brokenhearted when he lost to Slew. Maybe Affirmed could have beaten him under certain conditions ( his best chance would have been at a mile and a half). If he ever beat him with a rabbit as they attempted in the JCGC there would be very little credit. Slew was a freak with incredible speed and stamina. Slew really pummeled Affirmed here, clearly outrunning him head to head. Those fractions were too much. Gotta give the nod to Slew
brunoaltimino 5 months ago
The use of a "rabbit' to pressure the pace, is not inherently shameful, as you seem to imply. Seattle Slew was making his 2nd start -- after sitting-out about a year. (In his life, Slew made 17 starts!) Affirmed was here, after a season against Alydar (who was, by then, enjoying a mcuh deserved rest.) Cauthen redundantly pressed the pace. Pincay would have had Affirmed stalking (& would have matched strides with Cordero, earlier, in the Marlboro). But PUMMELLED? (Saddle slip! Throat infection!)
JayAr709 5 months ago
There are two parts to Seattle Slew's rally that make it so impressive:
1) When Exceller tries to blow by him on the turn, and Slew digs in
2) When Exceller has a half-length lead in the middle of the stretch and Slew accelerates again, only to lose by a nose at the wire
I've never seen so much heart.
kwilcox85 8 months ago
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kwilcox85 8 months ago
This is simply the greatest race run by a racehorse..Seattle Slew ran 1 1/2 miles in fractions of 22 3/5, 45 1/5, and 109 3/5 and still came on late and almost won ..A couple of notes..Between Seattle Slew's 3 and 4 yr. old campaigns, he almost died with a bad viral infection @ high fever..That is why his 4 yr old campaign was not good. Took 6 months to get right. Affirmed's saddle slipped at top of the stretch, he was already wasted by then. Best race run by a horse that did not win the race
vizacleaners 8 months ago 2
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vizacleaners 8 months ago
THE SHOE AND EXCELLER ...... THIS FOR YOU POP'S (RIP) , ENJOY.
DL261 9 months ago
Poor Exceller, beat two Triple Crown winners and got slaughtered in his twilight years.. such a horrible end to a great horse. R.I.P Exceller..
furlongfractions 9 months ago
@furlongfractions And I hope that Charles Wittingham is roasting in hell for not lifting a finger to save neither Exceller nor Ferdinand even though THEY made good money for him. He was a vicious,unfeeling old bastard and I wish we had slaughterhouses to send useless old trainers to.
thebackgroundartiste 7 months ago
Best horses in 1978:
1. Seattle Slew
2. Exceller
3. Affirmed
Slew was robbed of Horse of the Year in 1978! He showed more in this defeat than Affirmed did in any of his victories that year.
DanielSong39 9 months ago
@DanielSong39 Who're you going to believe, the facts? or your lying eyes? :) This race is an optical illusion. Beyond question it shows us a 3-crown champ, at age 4, battling bravely, in losing to an older handicap star. But when viewers only see Affirmed backing up, dismissing his saddle slip, my gorge becomes buoyant. (Only time out of the money ..Make sense?) Alydar, at 3, beat Slew-slayer J.O.Tobin by 10! Affirmed beat Exceller by over 7! Heck, neither Slew NOR Secretariat raced very often..
JayAr709 9 months ago
@JayAr709 You should also watch the 1978 Woodward and Marlboro Cup, when Seattle Slew crushes Exceller and Affirmed, respectively. Yes, this race is an optical illusion, because Seattle Slew was too keyed up and sprinted through the first 6 furlongs. We saw what happened under normal circumstances in the Woodward and the Marlboro Cup.
Affirmed was excellent in 1979 and deserved Horse of the Year. However, we're talking about 1978, when Seattle Slew was the best.
DanielSong39 9 months ago
@DanielSong39 Eclipse voters correctly awarded 1978 to Affirmed. They were able to excuse Affirmed's 2 finishes behind Slew (only one of which, Slew won) & sort out that Affirmed's 3-yr old year was stronger than that of 4-yr old Slew, who raced 7 times, won 5, & placed twice, earning $473,006 (*includes both questionable results over Affirmed, a 3-yr old). By contrast, in '78 Affirmed raced 11 times, won 8, & placed twice, earning $901,541 (*includes the 2 behind Slew) and 3 crowns over ALYDAR
JayAr709 9 months ago
@JayAr709 Wow, you're questioning Seattle Slew's performance in the Marlboro Cup? Now that was a thumping.
Affirmed did well against a group of three-year-olds early in the year but lost three in a row to end his season - DQ in the Travers, the Marlboro and the Jockey Club Gold cup. Exceller had a better record vs. tougher competition and so did Seattle Slew.
Affirmed was great in '79, despite the two losses to start the year (a five-race losing streak in total).
DanielSong39 9 months ago
@DanielSong39 Here Affirmed's saddle slipped; Cordero, atop Alydar, "hammed up" the lane violation by which Affirmed was DQ'd (I've seen more credible "acting" in the NBA); Cauthen slept at the break, for Slew's Marlboro. As for those 2 (essentially mud) races, I watched them firsthand: (This was while Cauthern was struggling thru an 0-for-106 riding slump. When Pincay took over Affirmed won by 10!) Recap: J.O.Tobin beat Slew; Alydar stomped J.O.Tobin; Affirmed blitzed Exceller, who got by Slew
JayAr709 8 months ago
@JayAr709 I think it would be best to talk about Affirmed's greatness in the video for 1979 Jockey Club Gold Cup, where he defeated Spectacular Bid. Not in a race where he was rank early, struggling in the middle and backed up late.
DanielSong39 8 months ago
What about Exceller?
Now that we have watched him defeat 2 Triple Crown winners, let's take a minute to remember that he was sent to a slaughterhouse by an owner who " could no longer afford to put resources into an investment that was paying diminishing returns'.
No matter what Affirmed's saddle problems were or what kind of ride Cordero gave Slew, it takes nothing away from Exceller.
Ruffian242 9 months ago
maybe the best race ever run by a defeated horse. what heart the slew showed
augie127 11 months ago
Exceller was full value for his win. What a ride by Shoemaker.
hialeahkid 1 year ago
treeeeeeeemendous!!!!!!
hswatnik 1 year ago
A very informative race. Exceller, was a little behind the very best in Europe, but just too good for the American champions. The best horse in Europe at this time was Alleged, who would have dealt with all of these very easily.
tigerboy1966 1 year ago
@tigerboy1966 Observe Steve Cauthen's repeated attempts to re-center, shifting in the irons while the saddle was slipping. ...As for Exceller (over whom Seattle Slew could manage only a 4-length margin of victory in their only other meeting), Exceller was "up the track" behind Affirmed, in Affirmed's record-setting '79 Santa Anita H'cap. So If Exceller was only "a little behind" Europe's best, that puts 'em all behind the 2 Triple Crown champs; Alleged's 9 for 10 record is questionable, as well
JayAr709 10 months ago
CMON NOW , ...... ANYONE WHO'S STILL ALIVE KNOW'S THAT ANYTIME BILL SHOEMAKER AND CHARLIE WHITTINGHAM TEAMED UP IN MONEY RACES, ....... YOU COULD REST ASSURE IT WAS IN THE BAG. - Douglas Leifi
DL261 1 year ago
@DL261 When the rent is due "bet on the SHOE" They were and still are the best tandem in racing....If the horse was owned by Mary Jones Bradley...fahhgettabouitttt...cash the ticket!
DIGBYS 1 year ago
What makes this race so special is all the sub plots.Slew breaking through the gate, Cordero losing his stirrup, Affirmed's sadlle slipping. But most of all the torrid pace that Slew maintained and almost won. Props to Exceller
jkmooreelle 1 year ago
I agree with you Z-HOY about Bid. He might be a notch below Red, MOW and Citation, but I believe he is right there with Kelso, Forego, Dr. fager, etc... But i do not think the age difference in the JCGC is as big advantage as you might think. the race is run in the fall. The 3-4 year old advantage starts to disappear late summer/early fall in most cases. Still my fave race though.
bunkhouse 1 year ago
@bunkhouse Sorry to disagree with you. Huge advantage for a great 4 year old running against a great 3 year old anytime during a 3 year olds season. Affirmed endured the rigors of the Triple Crown races earlier that season and an especially tough TC because of his duels with Alydar. Any 3 year who goes through that will only beat good 4 year olds later that year not champions or legens like Seattle Slew was. Case in point, Lookin' At Lucky vs. Blame and Zenyatta.
ZenyattaHOY 1 year ago
@awsidooger
The saddle slipping was was the lesser of Slews advantage. Come on, you have to know what a big advantage a legendary 4 year old has over a legendary 3 year old. Affirmed (4) beat Spectacular Bid (3). Does that make Affirmed better than Bid? In my opinion if Slew, Bid and Affirmed ran 1 1/4 all being 4 years old, Spectacular Bid would beat both of them.
ZenyattaHOY 1 year ago 2
rofl. Both Slew and Affirmed were great horses. Some East Coast morons like you make a moronic comment like "Some California idiots still believe Affirmed was better than the "Slew. Not even close if u ask me." First of all Affirmed's saddle slipped in this race. Secondly Affirmed was only a 3 year old while Slew was 4. Slew lost this race to an older horse, Exceller who was never in Affirmed's league. Get your facts before casting stones.
ZenyattaHOY 1 year ago
@ZenyattaHOY
Actually, Affirmed's saddle slip was the best thing that ever happened to his reputation. It was hardly at the outset of the race. Affirmed was cooked. He would have lagged badly regardless, and the contrast of Slew's rally and Affirmed's collapse would have left no doubt toward the comparative caliber.
Great, great horse but not quite in Slew's league.
AwsiDooger 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger Affirmed was better. if Dr. Patches embarrassed Slew, J.0.Tobin had already ledt him a badly beaten 4th, 16 lengths behind. Neither of these 2 spoilers could best Alydar, still less Affirmed. The wildcard is Exceller, whom Slew could beat by only 4 lengths (if Slew wasn't losing): Exceller was well back of Affirmed in the S.A. Hcp., where Affirmed (on the wrong lead) set the stakes record. ...At four, Affirmed TOYED with Spectacular Bid & Coastal, turning back all 5 tries to get by.
JayAr709 10 months ago
@JayAr709
Your an idiot. Seattle Slew had just come off taxing wins in the Triple Crown. It was barely one month after he won it. Once again when Dr.Patches beat him, he was exhausted. So what Affirmed got beat as a 3 y. He beat Spectacular Bid when the Bid was a 3 yo. No one seems to talk about that? Idiot, Seattle Slew was much better than him. Spectacular Bid being a little better than him.
queenluciaa 9 months ago
@queenluciaa Your remarks are largely incomprehensible to me, so I'll let your insults go. I doubt that you have understood my comments correctly, regardless. I won't fault your drawing a line through Slew's losses to J.O., & to Patches; I, myself, discount Affirmed's losses to Radar Ahead & to Little Reb (in Santa Anita winter rains): I just don't buy that such outcomes, nor Slew's *theft* above, could ever have taken place, with Pincay up. ...Slew never faced an Alydar. There's the difference.
JayAr709 9 months ago
@JayAr709
Affirmed was actually lucky. Alydar never switched leads in the stretch, and still always came in heads apart from beating him. Seattle Slew's losing performance in this race was probably the best effort ever given by a horse. If it weren't for Affirmed's insecure owners for entering a rabbit, Slew would have blown this race away.
queenluciaa 9 months ago
@queenluciaa Lol, see Affirmed vs.'Bid & Coastal, for 4- vs. 3yr old fairness. Life's Hope = honest pace. Affirmed's EQUIPMENT FAILURE is what blew this race-his only time out of the money. It was Alydar, & Slew, who were lucky; Lucky that Pincay (10 for 10 on Affirmed) wasn't aboard all those OTHER races. Craftier & more muscular than Cauthen, Pincay opened up Affirmed's *economical* victory margins, nor would he have taken doubtful chokeholds & given races away, early, to Slew-gunning Corderos
JayAr709 9 months ago
@JayAr709
Honest pace? HONEST PACE? Your saying that setting fractions like 22:60 for the quarter, and 45:20 for the half, are 'Honest fractions'? Well how blind are you? Those are UNHEARD of fractions for the marathon race. AwsiDooger was right, the saddle slip was the best thing to ever happen to his reputation. He would have been so cooked in that race, It would be kind of sad. Seattle Slew went on to beat Exceller by 4 in the Woodward, he was obviously the better horse of both of them.
queenluciaa 9 months ago
@queenluciaa It was the worst, for this saddle slip-& Cauthen's prior restraint-denied Affirmed his best evidence. Affirmed was never "cooked," nor was he ever in danger of BEING cooked; Slew WAS cooked however, & badly beaten. (See Alydar's Whitney, against older horses ...& J.O.Tobin:) Horses that beat Affirmed were either slop-lovers during Cauthen's 0-for-106 slump, or greats such as you see, here-helped by racing luck. (Oh- & when Aff went on to beat Exc-it was by 7 lngths., a track record
JayAr709 9 months ago
@JayAr709
Badly beaten? Your calling being beat by a desperate nose badly beaten. Give me whatever your smoking, because that is nonsense. That was the most incredible loss I've ever seen, only Secretariat could handle those fractions and prevail. Yes I do think Affirmed would have most definately performed better had the saddle not slipped, but he would have been nowhere near Slew and Exceller. IMO
queenluciaa 9 months ago
@queenluciaa I meant J.O.Tobin ('77 Swaps Stakes). You may excuse Slew's loss to Dr. Patches, as well. No one is suggesting Slew was not a great horse. The facts remain: J.O.Tobin was in turn utterly destroyed BY ALYDAR (in The Whitney) and Affirmedf's 'Big Cap margin over Exceller was an emphatic 7 lengths. (Secretariat likely dominated a soft crop. ....Be that as it may.). In comparing champions, thoughtful analysts factor freak mishaps & adolescent rides into their thinking. So should we.
JayAr709 9 months ago
@ZenyattaHOY Your even funnier. To say Exceller was never in Affirmed's league is laughable. Exceller was a turf horse and beat the best ,,,ummmm..on the DIRT.I'm sorry how many turf races did Affirmed win....exactly!
DIGBYS 1 year ago
@DIGBYS no you are the funny one trying to compare a grass horse to a Triple Crown winner. Did Exceller ever win a Triple Crown? Exceller was a great horse but Affirmed was a legend. Numbers don't lie.
Affirmed 29-22-5-1 for 2.4 million (which included the last Triple Crown Champ in the past 32 years)
Exceller 33-15-5-6 for 1.7 million
One is a legend the other was a great horse. And both were champions.
ZenyattaHOY 1 year ago
Just as a fan of the sport, Secretariat and Affirmed's Belmonts always gave me chills. But the more I watch this race it becomes more my favorite race of all-time.
bunkhouse 1 year ago
I watched this with Hall of famer Olin Gentry at Darby Dan farms in his office. His comment after the race" that may be the best race I have ever seen a horse run". This from a man that thought that Man 'o War would have spotted Secretariat 10 lengths in the Belmont and won
fagerflies 1 year ago
Could Slew have beaten Dr Fager at a mile? that's laughable.. of course not. The bigger question is THIS. Can you name ANY other horse that could have done what Seattle Slew did here?
fagerflies 1 year ago
In case you don't remember, Affirmed's saddle slipped and his jock could not control him. His entry mate Life's Hope was supposed to be used as a rabbit to make Slew go too fast on the front end. He did but Affirmed also did the same unintentionally due to his saddle problems. I am not pointing this out to make an excuse for Affirmed altho it is a good one . i am pointing out just how brutal the pace was for Slew due to these events. That he was able to continue and almost win this was shocking
fagerflies 1 year ago
The 1978 Hollywood Gold Cup was exciting too i was there and it is a blanket finish. If anyone has a copy of this race please let me know :)
bookiebuster1 1 year ago
Greatest race of all time, perhaps?
It has my vote.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
Wow, and to think I came to watch this video to get away from the Rachel vs. Zenyatta pissing contest.....
glpolites 1 year ago
@glpolites ROFLMAO...........yea well, i was certain RA would have handed Z her ass on a plate in 2009.......but obviously not a chance in 2010.....still would have been nice to see Z run somewhere other than southern Cal....oh well.......in the meantime lets enjoy Slew, the absolute supreme running machine.........................he woulda beat Sec on heart alone, i dont care about the numbers Sec put up, when he lost he looked awful...
cgambler864 1 year ago
And the thanks Exceller got for races like this was a trip to the slaughter house. Nice way to treat a winner.
activist405 1 year ago
To Awi's- You should disable all the comments on your videos as you only attract those who are a cancer- like the worthless RSCarbro. When you allow comments to be posted, you only attract all the dumb ***** .
HollywoodParkSteward 1 year ago
RSCARBRO- All you've done to the horse racing comment areas on You Tube is turn them into a pissy fit contest. You're worthless and all you can do is post stupidity all over You Tube- it is a sad thing that you have a computer. Both were great horses- the fact that Slew ran the Champagne much faster compared to Red- that makes Slew a far better two year old- based on your retarded logic.
HollywoodParkSteward 1 year ago
@HollywoodParkSteward Its a sad thing you haven't got a brian. Not one thing I have posted here is a lie But truth. Thats something you cannot stand. Seattle Slew was one hell of a horse But he never did what Big Red done. I have even put up excuses for Slew in this race And the one with J.O. Tobin. I bet you never would take up for Secretariat. Why, because you hate his guts. If anyone stupid or worthless its you 'KID'. You Slew lovers are nothin but one sided & 'Bias'.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 - You mistake me for your father since you play the fool. Excuse me for taking 4 months to respond- I don't take part in You Tube and I only signed in today as I was going to post Affirmed's HWJC, however, it would involve talking with worthless idiots-like yourself. Imbeciles who argue for no reason. Your facts mean nothing as you come across as the complete asshole-it's who you are. No true horseman who loves the sport would come across as the shithead you are.
HollywoodParkSteward 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@rscarbro100 -Brian? LMAO- You are a dumb shit- you can't even get the insults right-imbecile.
HollywoodParkSteward 1 year ago
Also, You will forgive me for not responding for 4 months- I don't bother with You Tube- I was going to post the video of Affirmed's HWJC, but I checked my mail first- LMFAO! You are about as mentally screwed as one could be! No true horseman would be such an absolute shithead as you are comparing great horses like Red & Slew. It isn't the facts you post, it's the point that you're a complete asshole. I'm glad I checked my mail- I hadn't posted any vids here and I won't bother now.
HollywoodParkSteward 1 year ago
@HollywoodParkSteward I do forgive you for not replying for 4 months. I guess after 4 months of searching for reasons why Slew was better than Secretariat you came up empty once again. Did you ever read what Jean Cruguet said about Slew? Hell, he said he wasn't the best horse he ever rode. Maybe he wasn't the best of all time. He ran against no opposition.Write to the man that rode him & tell him what a 'Asshole' he is. Most 'Shit' as you call it came from the great horesman of the game.Cont.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@HollywoodParkSteward Your calling Charles Hatton, Holly Hudges, Teddy Cox & many more mentally screwed up for comparing horses. Guess Eddie Arcaro And Pincay were as well according to you. Yelp, these 2 jockey's said Secretariat was the best of all time. The point is you think you know more than these few I listed here. What are your credentials? I can back up everything these great horseman ever quoted. Yours is just talk without nothing to back it up dip shit.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
AwsiDooger,
I'm starting to see your point about all of the Secretariat fans. Here we see a great race between three legends - in one of the greatest horse races of all time.
Great effort from Seattle Slew, though he came up short. Exceller was in the midst of a 7 for 10 season with wins on turf and dirt, all vs. open company.
Let's celebrate the participants of this race and celebrate Secretariat in a race he participates in.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
Perhaps Cordero could've done more to slow Seattle Slew down. We'll never know. However, whether he would've been successful is another story - it all comes down to training, and how the horse responds to the jockey.
Seattle Slew was a frontrunner all his life, and I have yet to see a race where he was comfortably rated behind a fast pace. It's more probable that he would've been rank early instead of settling in nicely. Clearly Slew was way too keyed up and that was the real culprit.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Cordero might have been afraid he would fall off if he made a change trying to slow him down. He was motionless until he seen Exceller coming like a freight train But by then Slew was slowed quite a bit before he got to the 1 1/4 mile post.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Watching the race once again...
Seattle Slew is under a tight hold for the majority of the race and Cordero isn't successful in rating him until the middle of the backstretch. Cordero finally urges Slew about 3 furlongs from the wire, but he is spent and comes up a nose short despite a tremendous effort.
Can't blame the jockey for this one. No evidence that Cordero gunned Seattle Slew for the first 6 furlongs. The horse did that all on his own...
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 You said Slew was under a tight hold but he was going for the world record for 6 furlong distance. in a 1 1/2 mile race? Who told you that? Big Red workout in 'MUD' was 1:09 1/5. He was not going all out in his workouts. Just like the Belmont on a track rated fast were he ran the 6 furlongs in 1:09 4/5. Just think if they pushed Big Red in that workout on a fast track (not Mud) for 6 furlongs. I feel the jockey could have slowed Slew down somewhat. They do after the race. right?
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 He slowed down considerably after 6 furlongs. Why, he was tired. Very tired. He picked it up once Cordero seen Exceller coming like a freight train urging him on with hand & whip. He ran his heart out & almost pulled it off. A tremendous performance by Slew. Hats off to him. I wish he had won. I still feel Cordero could have pulled on the reins & pressure on the sturps some more to hold him back. That is just my opinion. The better horse lost. Your right, Cordero did not gun him.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 I have searched ways to slow down a horse. Laura Thompson is a horseback instructor in Houston, TX. Her quote:
Riders often forget that they are in control when on a horse's back. It is the rider who decides whether to slow a horse's gait, and if a horse is racing too fast, the rider isn't doing his or her job. Slowing down the speedy horse is a matter of reducing speed through all of the rider's aids End of quote.
You do it in changing body motion.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Laurin Thompson Cont. quote:
The half-halt is extremely effective for slowing a horse's gait. Pull back gently for two seconds, then release, reminding the horse that the rider is in control and is asking for something.
Additionally, riders can slow a horse's gait by creating a wall with their knees. Closing the knees around the saddle automatically closes off the horse's shoulders, reducing speed and forward momentum.
Cordero could have slowed Slew.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
One would hope that common sense would eventually prevail.
Seattle Slew, Secretariat, and even Affirmed were all legendary horses and the sport benefited from their performances.
However, let's face it - if they went up against each other on the track at their peak, we wouldn't have a clue as to which horse would win. Heck, a nobody could leave all of them up the track. That's why they call it horse racing.
Let's just appreciate Exceller's superb win and Seattle Slew's valiant efforts.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Common sense will tell you that if a horse like Secretariat who ran a 1:59 2/5 Derby, a 1:53 2/5 Preakness, a 2:24 Belmont, a 1:45 2/4 M.C. & ran another furlong 'Gallop Out' in 1:57 4/5 is the 'CLUE' that this is the hoss to bet on. Its a 'No Brainer'. Maybe you were not informed of just how fast Secretariat is coming off the line my good man. Read William Nack's SI Vault article Lucien trained a 'Flying Horse' where he ran his last workout before his 3 yr. old season.Cont:
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Yet people still bet on Onion. And Prove Out. And cashed in, big time. He ended his career 1 for 3 vs. open competition on dirt, compared to 14 for 16 against age-restricted company. That's a pretty big difference.
Horse racing is not that easy to predict. No horse is money in the bank, not even Secretariat or Seattle Slew. On any given day, any horse can win. Anyone who has seen enough races would realize that.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 I agree with you 100% my good man. anything can happen in any kind of racing But if I had the big money I would bet on Big Red.& think way more would than not. Might lose But will also bet my chances are pretty darn good. I seen what happen to Big Red. Penny knew he was running a fever on & off before the Whitney & Steve Haskins said they should have never enter the Woodward & same with Slew in the Swaps race.. Yes, goes to show nothing is guarantee. Even the great 'Titanic' sunk.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Thats a false staement and designed to discredit the horse. The Whitney wasnot an open race. Sec final four races were "open". 2 on dirt and 2 on turf. He was 3 of 4 with a world record at 1 1/8 miles, shattered tghe track record at the MOW, eased in the Canadian Intl or he would have broke that record, to. Loss in the WW running 2:26 and 3/5, roughly the 3rd or 4th fastest mile and a half on dirt in history...and in the mud.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 The credntiola caried by Riva Ridge in the 1973 MC were...Eclipse winner as a 2YO and 4yo, 1972 KD and Belmont winner, world record holder at 1 3/16th's miles. He...was...4YO...against Sec...3YO...you still dont seem to have grasped that point. Key to the Mint was the 1972 Eclipse winner, 3 YO horse. At 80% Sec sets the WR with ease, a hand ride.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 I have forgotten Danny. Did Slew ever run against older champion horses, setting records while he did it. How many times? What were the distances?
How old was Exceller? what is his rating? #97? Riva ridge is 40 spots higher and an older champion horse.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 It was March 14 a few weeks before his 3rd birthday. Yelp, a 2 year old still. Worked a 3/8 mile. Lucien told Ron to let him roll. With stop watch in hand Laurin stopped him in 33 3/5 sec, Oh my God Laurin said. Most horse don't run it in 34 sec. He asked Watson for comfirmation high up in the tower, Laurin got the message & his jaw dropped to the ground. The message was the electronic timer had it in 32 3/5 seconds. Fastest workout ever in the state of N.Y.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
I will say that I cannot see were anyone can argue that no horse in history showed the greatness what Secretariat did as a 3 year old with those many spectacular performances he had, Even his record breaking 'Workouts' he had leaving the experts stracthing their heads. Not only his Derby & Belmont records still not broken to this day but his record at Belmont Park of 1:45 2/5 on that track is still not broken for a 1 1/8 mile distance. His Preakness has only been tied. What else can I say??
rscarbro100 1 year ago
We all can sit here all day & argue the excuses, explaination or whatever you want to call it why Secretariat, Slew, The Bid & all the great horses why they lost, Common sense will tell you that Big Red Whitney & The Wood were fluke races just as well as Slew's race in the Swaps & this race here as well, We know who were the better horses even when they lost, Slew much better than Dr. Patches.Thats horse racing whatever the reasons & they are many, many why even great ones lose. Cont.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Cordero's ride here was bad IMO, but I do agree he had to deal with the rabbit and Affirmed. A very bad ride got Bid beat in the Belmont. Two dispicably bad rides by Day got the better horse Easy Goer beat very narrowly by an inch and neck.
EASYGOERFLIES 1 year ago 2
@EASYGOERFLIES Cordero couldn't do anything. Seattle Slew was way too keyed up for this race and even broke through the gate. Once the race started he flew through six furlongs and it was Affirmed and Life's Hope who were struggling to keep pace.
If anything I'm going to put that on the trainer and not the jockey. It's the same thing that got Smarty Jones beat. You have to get the horse in the right shape to run a 1 1/2 mile race - not beat Dr. Fager's record for the mile.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Your right my good man. You just have to get a horse in good shape expecially for a 1 1/2 mile race. Most all horses that run a fast pace will tire enormously by the times he hits the last 1/4 mile. Nack said Secretariat was the fitess horse he ever seen before the Belmont race. He show it the last 1/4 mile after tha fast pace in Belmont history. Heywood Boun stated he was not tired nor worked up a lather after the race.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 I agree Slew was going to damm fast & it cost him the race. I can still hear Nack & the rest in the 1973 Belmont hollering your going to damm fast, he just lost the horse & what else was said? Nope, he kept going like a 'Tremendous Machine' And that was the difference between Big Red & Slew. Slew just could not keep going like a 'Tremendous Machine' even at 4 years of age in a 1 1/2 mile race. I would say Big Red was really 'Keyed Up' for that Belmont race too. Right??
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@EASYGOERFLIES A bad ride did not get The Bid a loss in the Belmont. Read Red Smith "To The Swift'. He tired just like the other 8 horses befrore him that won the Derby & Preakness. Even Delp said Ronnie did a great job & seen nothing he did wrong. These are Smith & Delp's remarks not mine.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Bud Delp must have changed his thoughts alot. Go read this article: "1980 Horse of the Year Spectacular Bid Dies" from the LA Times on June 11, 2003. Delp says, "I STILL believe Bid would have won have won had Ronnie ridden a better race." Secondly, most,if not all,experts see that ride as very bad. Franklin chased a 100-1 shot and moved much too early in a mile and a half race. But that's just my opinion.
EASYGOERFLIES 1 year ago
@EASYGOERFLIES I read that article my good man. You better read it again. That was Bob Miezerski the staff writer that made them remarks not Delp. He might have won it if it was a slower pace. But Coastal might have ran a slower pace & ran the last 1/4 even faster. One thing for sure it showed he was not another Secretariat. As you know how fast a pace Big Red ran & held it.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 My good brother, Bob Miezerski stated in the article that Bid was compromised by a a safety pin and an ill-timed ride by the jockey. Delp's qoute directly from his mouth on page 2 of the article was, "I still believe Bid would have won had Ronnie ridden a better race.It was the only race in his life where another horse passed him in the stretch." Bid's only other race at 12F was a 3/4length loss to the great older horse Affirmed.If your point is Bid was no Sec,then you are right.
EASYGOERFLIES 1 year ago
@EASYGOERFLIES The safety pin was Delp's excuse that came later. When Delp went back to barn 14 he did not mention nothing about a safety pin. He said there was no excuse for the loss & Franklin rode a good ride. Why did he change his mind later?? To show face since he said The Bid was the best to ever look through a bridle?? Red Smith said he tired like all the other horses did before him. Even a pace he ran usually do most all horses in at the Belmont.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@EASYGOERFLIES I don't think Affirmed being 4 was the reason for The Bid's loss. Affirmed ran a faster 1 1/2 mile as a 3 year old in the Belmont. I think The Bid was stronger & better at 4 than 3. But Affirmed did not get better IMO as a 4 year old. The Bid was a very great horse just like Slew & Affirmed. Yes I think Secretariat was a 'NOTCH' better than these 3 horses & more than proved it. I just love all these horses!
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@EASYGOERFLIES Affirmed would not be matching strides early, if Life's Hope was a "rabbitt". L H was there to ensure an honest pace. As for jockeys and their relative performance, Cauthen can't be blamed for Affirmed's equipment failure, alhough it (justifiably) cast doubt on the race outcome. Previously, Cordero had simply gunned A Fresh Horse (after Alydar defected), just as J.O.Tobin "stole away" from Slew. (The fact remains, no horse EVER finished in front of Affirmed, with Laffit Pincay up)
JayAr709 10 months ago
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Please stop it with the Easy Goer was better than Sunday Silence talk. SS won 3 of 4 races.
Exceller gets way too much credit for this race. He took advantage of Affirmed's rabbit is all.
slug863 1 year ago
@slug863 I'm still befuddled by the Easy Goer vs. Sunday Silence debate. Criminal Type beat them both in '90 and proved who was best!
DanielSong39 1 year ago
Exceller proved that he was better than Affirmed in '78, let alone Seattle Slew.
Affirmed was good in '79 but he needed binoculars to find the top handicap horses in '78.
Affirmed was a special horse as well and deserves his spot among the all-time greats. But let's get serious now. Against Slew, he is always going to come up on the short end.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
For those that love "time"- Slew finished in 35.60 in the 1 1/8 mile Marlboro. Find me horses that did that California boys?
The Black Stallion did it all. I'm tired of ALL the Affirmed excuses. Bottom line is he wasnt as good as the 'Slew. But then again VERY FEW were!
thelongshot99 1 year ago 2
@thelongshot99 I believe that time was 1 minute 45 seconds & 4 fifths more good buddy. WOW, a 35.60. That was an airplane or Secretariat.(smile)
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Let's not forget that Prove Out finished 4 1/2 lengths ahead of Secretariat in that 1973 Woodward race where Secretariat finished in 2:26.6. He completed the 1 1/2 mile trip through heavy slop in 2:25 and change. Steve Haskins said no horse could have defeated Prove Out that day. That was one of the all time great performances by a thoroughbred.
sl7293 1 year ago
This race further enhances Slews stature as a great horse. Blazing fractions for a race of this distance on an off track, getting passed in the stretch and still coming back at Exceller who had no rabbits to deal with and the perfect trip along the rail. Some may call it excuses for not winning but I would think most agree SS was a great horse who ran a great race in defeat.
joefederico 1 year ago
@joefederico Mike Resnick wrote for Bloodhorse, American Turf, Horseman Journal, etc. quoted:
Strangely enough, you get your second-fastest times not on good tracks, but on sloppy ones, because if there's standing water on the track, it means that it hasn't soaked in and the track is reasonably hard beneath the water. Good and slow tracks are tiring, End of quote. Now my good man you know a little more today than you did yesterday.(smile)
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 I have been commenting in the "other" 1978 Marlboro Cup video. Keep up the good work. They simply cannot argue based on facts and performances. All is based on speculation and innuendo.
bbmtge 1 year ago
Angel Cordero may have rode a very bad race here, but he had to deal with a rabbit, and a not so controllable Affirmed when the saddle slipped. But two atrocious rides by Day got the better throughbred,Easy Goer, beat a nose and neck. EasyGFiles, your analysis is spot on. We all knew Cordero should have been his jockey.
DELMARCLUB1 1 year ago 3
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EASYGOER4EVER 1 year ago
Unlike Cordero's bad ride here. Pat Day's dispicable ride when he got the better horse,Easy Goer, beat a nostril may have the worst ever. Pat Day made THREE huge mistakes to get the better horse beat, 1)Day moved much much too prematurely with a machine gun early move because Valenzuela took him out to the middle of the track down the backstretch, 2)He got outmanuevered for the homestretch scraping the rail 3)He cost EG the win by JERKING his head right befofe the line.
EASYGOERFLIES 1 year ago 3
Kind of like Pat Day's Horrendous and horrible ride that got Easy Goer beat in the Preakness by a nose. Day sent him through a Much too early move, was caught in scraping the fence in the stretch, and he still would have won if he didnt cock His Head right Before the Wire.
ruffchamp1 1 year ago 3
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Slew did not rate that day. Come on is the best excuse you can come up with. Cordero gave him a shitty ride.
mrleroy1966 1 year ago
The "Slew showed what a champion re really was on this day. Imagine going 45 .1 and 109 in a mile and a half race. insane Slew was not a mile and a half horse but he was a the best horse ever at Belmont. I don't think there is a horse that could ever beat him at a one turn mile. Maybe Dr Fager but that is debatable. Slew crushed rivals and could go as fast as possible to get the lead.
Some California idiots still believe Affirmed was better than the "Slew. Not even close if u ask me.
thelongshot99 1 year ago 6
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To thelongshot99. Lay off Californians Seattle Slew was a better horse than Affirmed that is a fact. However why don't you menton the stupid ride that Angel Cordero gave Seattle Slew in this race. One of the stupidest rides I have ever seen. Seattle Slew lost the race cause of a dumb ass ride. Shoemaker beat him cause Shoemaker used his brains and Cordero lost cause he rode the race like he had none. And by the way at a mile Dr. Fager would blow him off the track. NY Idiot
mrleroy1966 1 year ago
@thelongshot99 Slew never ran a mile faster than Secretariat nor any distance. If your amazed at 'Speed' then Slew doesn't come close to Big Red. Look at Slew & Big Red Derby wins. Slew the last 1/4 mile in 27 1/5 seconds to Big Red 23 flat. Also notice Slew was hit at least 10 times coming down the stretch. Both ran on fast track. Big Red record time in 1:59 2/5. Slew 2:02 1/5. No comparison. Imagine going 23 flat last quarter in the Derby.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 I forget...how many times did Slew run at 2YO?
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge WOW, I just checked. It was a grand total of 'Three' races my good man.He got the 2 year old horse of the year award. I guess they thought them 3 races he won was T.C. races for 2 year olds or does it show the poor competition for the year 1976.(smile)
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100
For guys with blind folded fixation on time, yourself and bbmtge make pathetic gaffes. Slew was eased over the final sixteenth of the Derby, per usual. The fractions were 1:36 mile to 2:02 1/5. In what warped world does that equal 27 1/5? LOL.
AwsiDooger 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger You gotta be 'Totally' kidding me. He stumble at the gate slightly & then moved quickly between horses to take 2nd place before the 1/4 post. I just watched the video once again & anyone can see he was hit the last time with the crop well past the last 1/16 marker. Slew did not slow up hardly none at all to the finish. If you want to call that 'Eased up' once he was quit been whipped then Secretariat was 'Eased up all through his strecth run. He was hit 11 times in his strecth drive.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger For some reason or the other I was thinking the mighty Slew ran that mile in a 1:35. I believe I read somewhere a Slew lover said he did. I should have never believed him.(smile) I think he was the one that said Secretariat would have never caught him because that pace was so fast. I'm still trying to figure that one out & yours too. I guess only the people that are perfect like you is the ones that do not have a warped mind.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger Iguess you need to watch the video a bit more, doogie. In the last 1/16th of a mile, I count 3 pops to the rear and a neck scrub. The horse does not ease until just prior ot the finish. Keep lying my friend. It suits youj. Also, I guess 26 1/5 is btter than 27 1/5..but I think it's a bit slower than 23. Of course, to a horse who lived and died by his 3/4 fraction, time means nothing.
bbmtge 1 year ago
I'll let you and bbmtge return to hugging Secretariat pillows and making desperate comments on an unrelated video, but here's one intrusion of reality:
"Seattle Slew was the most deserving winner in the history of the Kentucky Derby," declared the late Louisville newspaperman Mike Barry, who was present for all but four of the Churchill Downs classic races from 1922 through 1991. "In all the Derbies I've seen, I never saw a horse have as much trouble as Seattle Slew had and still win the race."
AwsiDooger 1 year ago
sbloomer 1 year ago
@sbloomer What are you saying my good man? Those tracks were super fast?? Did you not hear Woodie Broun made the statement the Dreby track was fast but not lighnting fast. When Beyer, Christ & Watchmaker was calculating Big Red speed figure the track variant was .08 to .09 to come to a 138 Beyer figure.It would have never made it to that high of a number if that track was lightning fast. You Secretariat haters won't stop at nothing to down grade him.You will try to find anything that will.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Logic at it's best. Keep up the good work!!!
bbmtge 1 year ago
Same day as Secretariat's Marlboro, a 3 year old filly tied the existing Belmont track record, 1:46 1/5.
Are you trying to tell me a 3 year old filly was equal to, or superior than, any horse who had even run 9 furlongs in the long history of Belmont Park? LOL.
The time based arguments are absurd if you use them as an absolute. Sham is devastating proof. He won half his races, only 1 Grade 1, but was within 2.5 lengths in the Derby and Preakness.
Belmont was freakishly fast throughout 1973
AwsiDooger 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger Do you have any figures to back up "Belmont was freakishly fast throughout 1973"? Looking at the times for the top races at the track that year the only ones that stand out are Desert Vixen in the Beldame, which you mention, and Secretariat. None of the others really leap off the page, but I was only looking at the biggest races.
tigerboy1966 1 year ago
@tigerboy1966, good question. 8 main track records were set at Belmont in the spring and summer of 1973. 5 were set between May 19 and June 9, Belmont Stakes day. When I started handicapping seriously in spring 1980 using track variants, par times and speed figures I was astonished to notice 7 existing Belmont track records dating to a brief stretch of the same year. No other track was similar. I looked at every major track in the country. I've not seen it again. It's been conveniently ignored.
AwsiDooger 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger Andrew Byer was the King of handicappers my good man. He rated the track as a .08 to .09 variant in the 1973 Belmont. This was taken into consideration when him, Watchmaker & Christ arrive at a 138 speed figure. Big Red got there in 2:24 not because of a lightning fast track which it wasn't But because he was the fitess & had the biggest 'Oxygen' tank than any horse ever had.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@tigerboy1966 He has no figure other than the ones he makes up. He is solely prejudicial in thought. The only thing he is relegated to is to claim the track alone produced these records. It is the famous conspiracy of 1973/ All track that Sec ran on were doctored.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge You got that right my good man. But we gotta agree with AwsiDooger after I did some thinking on the subject. That is: Slew did "Deserve' to win the Derby. Any horse that got the shit beat out of him that many times (11) going down the stretch indeed 'Deserves" to win.(smile) I don't believe Sham was hit that many times. I couldn't tell because him & Secretariat was going so fast you couldn't see it. Is there any way I can slow those Secretarit videos down?(smile)
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@bbmtge I guess the Slew lovers didn't know Secretariat ran a 'Workout' in 'MUD' in fractions of 57 2/5, 1:09 1/5, 1:21 3/5 & 1:34 4/5 a record at Saratoga & another furlong 'Gallop Out' for a 1 1/8 in 1:47 4/5 another record at Saratoga. He was running against himself in 'MUD'& thoses fraction times were a 'Blowout' time faster than Slew's Derby time on a fast track. The track condition did not produce these records he broke. They won't mention this will they. Your post is right on.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@tigerboy1966 Yuo see Tigerboy, the poster of this videeo decries racing fractions as meaningless, yet he goes out of his way to aver that it was the TRACKJ that was responsible for Sec Belmont. He does not stop there, he actually has claimed that the time in Sec KD could not have happened as Sham had never run that fast previuosly. It is the thought process that says "it is because I say so". No facts, no figures, no track rating by andrew Beyer is mentioned. He simply says it is so.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger That thought process assigns Sham an inability to run any faster than you say he was capable. Again, the facts put your prejudices in their place. Derby track of '73 rated a full second slower than that of '64. Your claims as some form of handicapper are a joke. You are certainly handicapped, however.
bbmtge 1 year ago
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rscarbro100 2 years ago
This gold cup was one of the greatest races ever. I still have the commentary on audio tape. Shoemaker stated that his horse hung in deep stretch, or would probably have won by a greater margin. Slew was a mismanaged colt, Exceller was trained by a master. A word to Televin.I would not rate Cordero above Shoemaker, Arcaro, and certainly not above Pincay, who frequently gave Angel riding lessons when he decided to fly to NYC. I also believe that Bid as a 4 yr old would have swept this field up.
hialeahkid 2 years ago
Ninety-nine percent of the race callers would have lost their voice describing this stretch drive. Thank God we we were blessed with the great man who did it justice.
davemock 2 years ago
That may be my favorite race of all time. I am exhausted watching it 30+ years later. Slew was a champion in defeat.
ttnorm 2 years ago 5
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When I said 'Did deserve to win', I was talking about the Horse of the Year voting and Affirmed barely beating out Seattle Slew.
BladerunnerNYC 2 years ago
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Affirmed could never beat Seattle Slew at any distance. That being said- although the vote was very close- he did deserve to win despite the fact that LB ordered Craig Perret, riding Affirmed's stablemate, Life's Hope, to scream like a banshee at SS.
SS was sick and never should have run in the Swaps- and Cruget was almost taken off just before the start of the Patterson because Cordero caused him to have a panic attack.
BladerunnerNYC 2 years ago