Keep in mind that these are nothing like the factory street unibody cars you buy at the dealer. These are totally custom tube frame with fiberglass panel race cars. The motor on the Rx7 isn't even in the stock location, they moved it all the way up under the dash into the cockpit. I love Rx7's and rotary engines but you can't compare that yellow race car to a production unibody FC3S.
I don't even know what an alternator is but they should build it a little less fragile...one time offtrack can happen always, not good if ur out of the race after a small sidestep.
I had a 2nd Generation RX7....It was stolen and found stripped in a field....If I could have ever found out who did it, they would never have use of their hands again...
Sure miss that car...It was quick...It had a few bolt ons and :)
Actualy lemans had other issues with the rotary, all mazda had to do was add another rotor to exponentially increase hp... Though one must also consider that the rotory will use more fuel than other engines, so some of the weight saved by the engine you will have to carry a larger payload of fuel to sustain your output than a v12 twin turbo counterpart... Yes thats right ladies and gentleman a 4 rotor is similar to a twin turbo v12...
Still prefer the feel of a v8 engine by far. I've driven a 13b RX-7 and an XR8, both stock. I much prefer the feel and sound of a V8 engine. They are so much more fun to drive than a rotary
@FC3SROTA I disagree immensely. I've driven an RX7 with a 13b in it. Nothing to rave about and it just makes an annoying sound and the torque takes quite a while to kick in, on top of that if you don't warm it up for 30 minutes you'll blow out the apex seals. However a nice V8 as seen in Mustangs and Chevys, those are the most fun to drive
@ultrarandom torque takes quite a while to kick in? really...? it kicks in at 3k and goes all the way to 8k... the hole rpm band... so i wouldn't say that..
@ultrarandom you should because when the second turbo kicks in it will jerk forward from the turbo torque... so you must have drove a burn out one of you are just lieing :)
I guess i'm lucky... I loved the sound of that v8, and i loved the sound of that knarly little 12a. Both make me remember why i throw too much money away on my cars. But.. that 2nd gen seven looks way better then that FALCON/holden
mate your a toss , put the rotary in the falcon and the ford in a same small car and help it get traction with a few mods kill that 12a you clowns have no clue !!!!!!!!!!
i missed the bit about the rotary being turbo, turbo = huge advantage
its interesting if i read it right the year that the rotary won lemans 1991 they had a 170 kg weight advantage over every one else, rotary = win ...................don`t think so.
lets see a standard FG xr8 or Holden SS v8 vs a standard RX8 rotary around this track, i`d put money on it the poor old rotary would`nt see them for dust.
@mikldude your an idiot...how is the rotary being turbo is huge advantage, even with the turbo it still was 150 hp less than the falcon..PLUS! its a 1.2L rotary that went against that v8..1.2L!!!
@sidodorifto firstly a small tight track with not much straight with a big heavy na sedan and a light weight turbo charged mazda that revs to 9000 rpm plus, regardless of the hp difference its mazda advantage.
and as of the LeMans 24hr......ofcourse it was a win for the rotary, everyone raced the best had and mazda ofcourse used its best engine which happened to be a rotary.....i bet if mazda wouldnt have won, they wouldnt have said shit bout "weight advantage"..it also says the mazda was underpowered...supid fool
@sidodorifto possibly or they just got lucky due to crash outs and retirements, one other thing mate , because you don`t agree with somebody you don`t have to call them fools and idiots, in other words grow up a bit mate.
haha i got 2 points, this video does not warrant any ability to comment on 2 totally different vehicles with so little testing, its farking ridiculous, chuck the 2 cars on a drag strip and lets see results.....
and for losers to say v8's are just generally slower, your mum and dad are siblings, simple naturally aspirated vehicles v8's win hands down, to get results you have to put the engine under extreme pressure, like i did with my rx7 till it popped, now with a v8, will never turn back....
Rotary power! mothafuckas!! haha! & that wasnt even a 13B, 20B, or 26B rotary imagine if the RX-7 had either of these engines in it?! its like erkal vs. tyson, no compitition, lol! dat big ass V8 lucky he didnt fly off the track tryin 2 keep up with the little 450 hp 12A. Dats the great thing about rotaries, u really dont have to add to much more power to one to get extraordinary performance considering the power to weight ratio of the engine. Rotary is da best engine known 2 man bottom line!!
@roidza The engine is very small, yet it puts out tremendous power, but power 2 weight also goes for the power of the engine and da weight of the car 2, in this case, power 2 weight ratio played a part on both da power and da weight of the engine, plus da power of da engine and da weight of da car, but if u were listenin 2 da guy who drove da 12A Mazda, he clearly said that da engine has a good power 2 weight ratio, So looks to me like ur da retard 4 not payin attention MATE!! lol! come again.
@lotusboy24 Opinion noted. Rotarys are awesome little engines for what they are, but they arent the best, show me the rotary that can pull 4.5 sec quarters @540kmh! Also if they were the best engine known to man, formula 1 cars would be using them instead of V8 POWER.
@mrwinslowjenkins The same reason the ROTARY got banned from the Grand Le Mans once they saw how a small rotary ate pistons engines 2 or 3 times bigger for lunch! dats why they use V8's in fact a rotary at high revs would put out just as much RPM, and the engine pitch is almost the same in high revs, so dont think ROTARIESarent the best, most mechanically efficient engine known to man. Like I said, The ROTARYwas Banned from the LE MANS 24 HR RACE!, not some nascar race, THE GRAND LEMANS 24! ;-)
@lotusboy24 Wow didnt know they were banned! I love both V8s, and rotarys for their technology but the truth is you cant seal them properly. On any build the first thing to break are the seals, so theres no way a rotary engine could handle 5000hp. That said, one of my dream cars is the legendary quad rotor RX7 built by MAD MIKE! Have u seen this beast?
@mrwinslowjenkins Yeah u are right, the little rotary coudnt handle dat much power, but yeah, I know exactly what car ur talkin about, The Redbull RX-7 they got a RX-8 one 2, but ur also right about the seals, you might as well keep a few of those on deck when racing a rotary, but yeah they were banned back in like the mid 70's I believe, now they know how to tune them to proper specs, to compete with the piston engine, but for the record, Im a huge fan of the LS7-V8 out of the ZO6 vette myself!
@mrwinslowjenkins And to anwser ur other question, a V8@540kmh in that time, well its obviously a drag car ur reffering to, So with that being said ,Im sure if u do some serious rebuilding and tuning (which can be done to any engine including the rotary) and run straight up alcohol or methanol wit nitrous, hell yeah it would do 540kmh in 4.5 secs down the quarter. Drain that alcohol, (im not goin to even call that fuel) and put regular race fuel in it, performance will decrease dramatically,..
the guy in the xr8 cant drive at all he was on the brakes way to early and hard thats why the rotary got around him in that corner, and you can see and hear he was on the gas way to early out of the corners and just frying his tyres. i respect rotaries but fuck that guy is shit and the announcer is a tool!
This isnt so much Rotary vs v8 but rather japan vs Australia. The Rx7 kicks the shit out of the falcon and the rx7 is about 10 years older. 12a is even older again, this is more of a realisation to how slow v8 supercars really are, and how a v8 unless in a space frame really arent worth anything. V8's are to heavy, and make the car balance too shit, it really would have been funny to watch how much the 20b would have kicked the shit out of the v8 even though its technology is years old aswell.
@mikldude the v8 in the rx7 would throw off the balance of the car, making the handling pure shit. People who put v8s in rx7 just try to drag race them.
@joshywebb point taken mate, i was really just trying to make a point, while the rotaries go well , they don`t make a lot of torque that you could put in a large heavy car.
So one race-built car is faster than another race-built car, each driven by a different drivers. This only proves that the rx-7 in this video is faster than the falcon in this video on the track in this video when driven by these drivers. The supremacy of rotary engines has hardly been established.
hahaha this video is like comparing apples to oranges. rotary = lighter, revvier, mounted inside the wheel-base. V8 = heavy, torquey, mounted over/in front of front wheels. You can't compare the 2, and respect should be paid both ways, even if the EL Falcon supercars were particularly ugly lol
theres more to cars then engine power afterall, the FC has a better balance close to 50/50 , its lighter, the chasis is more rigid, and it handles alot better than a falcon, also the rotary revs a hell of alot quicker then a v8 due to the fact theres less moving parts and less mass, and also because the rotors are continually spinning in the same direction it doesnt have to fight inertia going up and down.
hey if you would like to have discussion then lets do that and keep the swearing out of it...maybe we will both learn as i have in trying to find the most true and fair comparison of these two engines...i am not biased at all as i love engines and love rotaries and cannot wait to build an N/A 13b center bearing crank pp that will rev it's nut out(hell yeah bitch)now that would be sick!!!!!! i don't even believe that in my estimation of thw 12a =1146cc is correct per rev
Sorry for the language there brother, Im a bit of a hothead for no apparent reasons at times cheers i just re-read what u were saying before and i first thought it appeared to be in favour of the v8s which it wasnt it was a civilised discussion on the pros and cons. Cheers mate for not flaming back.
your statement is simply not true that rotary s have more power per capacity compared to a piston engine...why..simple fact that taking in only N/A engines into consideration what engine has the most power per capacities????? well an F1 engine with approx 900hp per 3L??????
Well , they make that power at rpms above 17k, simply due to increased overlap and narrow pulse width, with the same r and d in a rotary, u could make double that out of a 13b reving that high, remember 13b Na bridge ports, at 8800rpm are making close to 400bhp. Imagine with loads of r and d what it could make at 19k rpm :P
as far as being bias is concerned if you bothered to read my other post to other people you may find it interesting to know that i have rotary's in high regard and would love to see them develop the shit out of as stated in a comment i made the other day which i will post for you to see...now play nice and how about we both research and find a good comparison
hey just read you replies and yes go the rotaries.... v8 sixex and four as i lovem all....now the rotary build with the same capacities worked out buy an f1 engineer(and not fia) would not make double the power but i am of firm belief that there is more power potential out of a rotar and am aware of there fuel efficiency potential over a piston engine
<3 , but close to that or whatnot , like you i am taking a wild guess at things. I love all cars anyway but always had a soft spot for these little weapons
so almost same capacities per rev 1146cc /1250cc .but needs a turbo and is in a lighter car?so why is the rotary so good.less friction loss/light weight and rev thus different diff ratio
also power per cc is this
v8=152.75 per rev
12a-112.5 per rev
....ROTARY"S MAKE LESS POWER per liter...n/a 130hp 13b/6000rpm uses1300cc per rev to make this power
2L zetec ford 130hp uses 500cc to make this power per rev.same revs same 130hp
fair point.i am a porche sworkshop owner ...i own a 2L pinto powered rs2000 track car! i have owned a 7600rpm revving 351.430hp.top loader XC street car plus have a 12 sec Suby leonie wrxturbow engined car..i know al ot about stuff...now....if F1 allowed rotaries to be used i bet they would kick ass over piston engines......so long as they could get them to rev to 20krpm....and if they can make a pistons travel up and down at that rate i bet they could make a rotor go round in round at the rate
Obviously an ex 'V8 Super Car', if you could call it super....
Just remember all you V8 lovers, Rotaries, Turbo 4's and turbo 6's were banned from the Aussie Touring cars cause they were to fast. So instead, the rules now state it has to be a push rod engine with rear drive.
Toyota would have smashed em they were allowed to run the 4L Quad cam FWD in the series like they wanted to.
Aussie cars are shit. That's why I own a Toyota and a VW.
wow makes me wonder what would have happened if the 20b went lol
well luckly the 16x will solve the rotary torque problem, and why are people talking about a fair comparison? the fact: rotary= more power per liter in a smaller engine and higher rpm. DONE. if you put the rotary in the falcon it won't go as fast because it has 164 hp (and ?? torque) LESS than the v8 because its in a heavier car. the 20b on the other hand, i would place a good bet on winning even if it was in the falcon.
and why are people still going on abouut whats fair nn what not?... its a fuking 12A ( smallest rotary out.. other than the 10A) you cant say that this is unfair.. wel yea its unfair to the rotary. the Falcon.. over 600 od hp how is this unfair?
v8 scuz's are just oo caught up in thier own nikkas to admit that a rotary is by far a more supreme engine and always will be!
yer wait till the 16x comes out ( if it ever does)
is this test really a fair race? taxi vs sports car? think about it. or at least turbo dads famly sedan, yeesh. and the track is tiny for a big falcon, that things loose
1.2L vs 6.0L and the rotary still comes out on top???
what more needs to be said!!!!
hes just lucky that the 20b wasnt in action mwahaha
makes me laugh how all these silly aussies love gay 8 supercars....thinkin there the bestest thing to ever hit the earth....and a little wankel will annihilate them ahahah
before you get all excited about a Turbo 1.2L rotor vs 5L ( not 6L) N/A V8, just remember that you cant compare cubic capacity between a rotor and a piston engine as they are measured differently. a rotor is measured on the largest part of the intake cycle where as a piston engine is measured on the entire swept volume , so a fairer comparison maybe to times the rotors displacement by around 3 (i dont know the exact calculation) so a 1.2 becomes a 3.6 , and remember piston engines r 4 stroke...
No they make more power per capacita then any conventional piston engines, you just using so called bigger words to make yourself seem smart, clearly you are a biased fuckwit. The most effficient combustion engine in the world is the renesis with approx 35%.Per Litre rotaries make ~ 2.2 - 2.5 x more power than a convention motor does. Fact. not fiction you need to re-research on a non biased source.
funny how the falcon has crap weight distrobution and still beats the rotor to the 1st corner, torque mate, any1 up for a corvette vs rotor challenge?
fastest drag car- v8, fastest production car- SSC ultimate aero-v8, fastest production car around nurburg ZR1-v8. (and i think they are all pushrod v8s lol)
who gives 2 shits, fastest drag car because no one has proper brains or money to build a well worked 4 rotor , trust me mate , if they spend the same money involved in top fullers on a rotary u will get atleast 2x better result, as for production cars , no gives shit , prodcutioncars can easily be beaten with a lower budget used in an rx7,
No obviously you have not qualified intelligent enough to even study physics , i said atleast 2 times as much power, not half the time quicker retard.
Ever hear of a hyperbola? as x approaches Infinity y will approach 0, same concept here, with all that extra power and torque with less weight , your still not gonna be 2 times as quick because the forces of friction and air resistance and whatnot will be greater as u increase in speed. THus more force holding u back that u need to overcome.
From the above you can see each individual separate chamber (3 per rotor) only fires after 1080 crank shaft degree's has elapsed,, this is why the Wankel is so different to ANY other
type of engine, 2 strokes fire each individual chamber once every 360 degree's and 4 strokes fire every individual chamber every 720 degree's.If you look at a 13B with its 654cc per Individual chamber capacity (thus 1308cc) you can see it aspirates this ONCE every single revolution thus you can compare the 13B to a 2 stroke if you must do so on an equivalence basis (but remember you are not counting the other 2/3rd's of the combustion faces
Now if you compare it to the much more common 4 stroke engine you can see that 2 faces ONLY are being counted in the engine and thus it has aspirated a total of 2616cc over 720 degree's of crank shaft rotation....... nice little bit of info there but it still misses a whole 1/3rd of the engine!Finally the ONLY TRUE way to look at a Wankel Rotary is to view it in its own cycle! (and not comparing it to something that it is NOT!) this is only over 1080 degree's of crank shaft rotation, where
ALL of the working faces can be accounted for (just as when you do a compression test to see if the poor little donk is healthy or not) For it is only when the entire engine has complete one full cycle of work can it thus be rated, be that as functional or in its true capacity sense. You will then see that the humble 13B is indeed 654cc x 3 working faces x number of rotors ! = 3924.Equivalence capacity to time scale (revolutions) for 13B engine, has one power pulse per 360 degree's per rotor
all arguments aside , 6L v8 vs 6L rotary , what will win.? if a 1.2L rotary can crush a v8 supercar, im sure a 2.6 L (26b) will crush it N/a
6L v8 (no supercharge) = roughly 800hp if ur pushing it.
2.6L rotary (no supercharger) (787b) 700hp @ 8000(restricted dont forget rotaries are high revers) over 900hp @ around 10.5k rpm, and it keeps climbing, rotaries cannot be matched for power to weight ratio and capacity to power , in theory if u could build a supercharged quadrotor in a rail it willbe
actually rotaries are heavier then you think, and it depends on how you count the displacement...
for example the 1.3, has 2 rotars, 3 faces each, therefore 6 power making faces, yet each has 650cc(roughly of capacity)... but the only count 2 of the 6 for 1300 cc....
so that 1300 actually pumps 3900 liters of air for each cycle...
Megaeac..what do u think of my thinking?...if we take one crank rev and add the work done from each engine this is what i concluded would be the comparison of a 12a and a 5Lv8
12a=2x573cc per 1rev=1143cc work power per rev
5L=2x625cc per 1 rev=1250cc work power per rev
as each engine completes the as stated cc displacement of work per revolution they are almost the same capacities in this example,1143cc againes1250cc!!!!
so almost same capacities per rev 1146cc /1250cc .but needs a turbo and is in a lighter car?so why is the rotary so good.less friction loss/light weight and rev thus different diff ratio
also power per cc is this
v8=152.75 per rev
12a-112.5 per rev
....ROTARY"S MAKE LESS POWER per liter...n/a 130hp 13b/6000rpm uses1300cc per rev to make this power
2L zetec ford 130hp uses 500cc to make this power per rev.same revs same 130hp
the issue is that the v8 uses a different lenght cycle to complete its pattern, 720 degrees, and in 180 only 1250 ccs of air is drawn in, while in a rotary the cycle is only 540 degrees
so its kind of hard to directly compare, but yeah those rotaries pump about the same amount of air/fuel as a small v8, and usually burn just as much if not more fuel...
Law of conservation of mass, Mass isnt lost or gained. And in relation to engines, v8s are larger in size and hence will be much heavier than a rotary. An aluminium v8 will maybe come close to a full steel built rotary engine. 13b.
v8s are larger generally, but most of the area inside a v8 is empty space, a rotary has little empty space, a 13b rew weighs something like 375 pound, and makes 280 hp, an ls7 weighs about 400-450 and makes 505 hp... nearly double the power and less then 100 pounds more....without the need for a turbo
do you know how a rotary works... its a MILLION times simpler then an ls7....
and power to displacement means literally nothing, who cars if they call it a 1.3 ( its actually a 3.9) it still weighs nearly 375 pounds and makes what 150 hp stock...
while and ls7 weighs 450 and make 505 hp... which would you rather in a performance car...
Please explain to me how it's a 3.9. It's measured as a 1.3, if anything, it can be considered to be 2.6 because it has 2 chambers, but it's not regarded as that because you can't compare the displacement of a rotary engine to a piston engine.
rew engine can be much lighter, just mazda fails at turboing it.
actually we had a 13b pp block on our engine dyno with titanium rotors revving to around 13k we made 550 hp on pump fuel and the block only weighed 45kg's.
"Mageac" is rite. a piston engine is measured by the complete swept volume , rotor is only measured buy largest part of the induction cycle and not the rest of the volume where air/fuel is. each time a combustion takes place in a rotor it causes 1 crank rotation, yet a four stroke piston engine only has 1 combustion for two crank turns, so a more even match maybe a 2stroke with the same combustion to crank turn ratio... and a 125 2stroke is up there with 250 4strokes... think about it...
Everything is about sacrifice... ya they dont have as much torque but you get a nice power band on the top end of things... if only american muscle could take a god damn corner you might have a chance lolz
so no good for dayley use? the new VE commy v8 does 1500rpm at 100ks, my 6cyl fairmont does 1900rpm at 100ks. and evan tho the corvette zr1 has a heavy v8 in the front it is 1 of the fastest production cars around nurburgring (if not the fastest), pulls more Gs in the corners than the GTR and has the same 0-100 as the GTR with RWD and no "launch assist" lol . dont get me startd on the N/A viper that does over 100ks in 1st lol. thats torque
we can discuss this all day but thank god for youtube. V8 or rotary? well, watch the vid and ur question is answered. 12a vs v8. not even close. lucky the 20b wasnt able to run that would have been much worse.
so i guess if we put that rotor engine in a falcon the outcome would be the same, or the v8 engine mid mounted in a rx7? so if you feel cozy that a turbo mid mounted sports car beat a naturaly aspirated front engined family sedan im glad 4 u.
the rx-7 chassis is built specifically for harnessing the true power of the rotary engine, young grasshopper. the answer is yes. the outcome would be the same... lol the rx7 will still win with the v8.
fair point.i am a porche sworkshop owner ...i own a 2L pinto powered rs2000 track car! i have owned a 7600rpm revving 351.430hp.top loader XC street car plus have a 12 sec Suby leonie wrxturbow engined car..i know al ot about stuff...now....if F1 allowed rotaries to be used i bet they would kick ass over piston engines......so long as they could get them to rev to 20krpm....and if they can make a pistons travel up and down at that rate i bet they could make a rotor go round in round at the rate
make a 8L rotory and we shall see the torque different,,,,since the engine would be half the wight and the box and diff would be lighter i would count on the weight and the friction loss thru the vipers to be a downfall in comparison......
a 13b turbo weighs almost as much as the corvettes ls7....imagine what one 8 times larger would weigh... you would need to put it in a bus to carry the thing...
Yeah, most are between 350-400 HP, but that's because the engine doesn't have that good horsepower output. The 13B has much better power output and less problems, and the weight difference is minimal, so I think a 13B would always be a better choice. Also, it can be had more easily.
13B-T simply means 13B-DEI turbocharged, and the 13B-RE, and 13B-REW are simply other turbocharged models based off the 13B-DEI. The only two true variants in terms of design of the engine are the 13B-DEI and 13B-MSP (Renesis). Leaving that aside, I was talking about the 13B-MSP used in the RX-8. The 13B-DEI simply doesn't have that high power output stock compared to the MSP.
Yeah, and the only difference in the MSP is the location of the ports, when the 16x comes out at least then there will be some serious changes to the rotor housings as well.
The lotus handles well due to being so light, it doesnt have to overcome as much inertia and it is specifically built so light so that it doesnt need as much power to achieve what a vette and others do. Fast cars dont have to have as much hp. if they are light when racing in the turns.
The 3 rotor rx8 had the fastest lap time in SCCA racing for this very reason besting, vette, z,s2k, m3,5,6 and mercs too. This is the open class where just about anything goes with the rules in respect to the class. The reason the 8 did so well, cornering ability. It wasnt the highest hp car but could take the corners better than any you have stated. The lotus did not compete in this class cause it is so light.
i never said the chassis was good on a falcon. Side note... why are you copying my format? Lastly, most racing chassis such as in Le Mans and indy ect. build chassis around the engine and not vise versa, as was the case of the 787b in 91
The falcon may not be a great car but, balance and handling are enhanced greatly by where the weight is in relation to the CG of the car. This is the whole reasoning behind midengine cars such as Lotus, ferrari, and lambo. ex. if the chassis of both cars were the same, the rotary would still have better handling due to the ability to place the engine in a better place to enhance handling. I figured you knew all this.
whats that have to do with the price of oranges in china?
why exactly does the rotary get placed better...
and how does it affect handling any more then say... moving the front wheels say a half inch forward.... corvette has 50/50 and its a "heavy" v8 in the front... and a viper has a 49/51 with a 600 hp 8.4 v10 in the front...
how about a lotus elise... they corner amazingly... they have a 38/62 weight balance
I believe we have had this discussion before. first off, in class racing you have 2 choices, run stock chassis or modify it and it puts you in other classes based on mods. So, with that being said (cannot believe you keep asking this) the rotary has the best advantage due to the weight being lowest to the ground for cornering and change of inertia. Not any car made today can do this cause that is a drawback of the piston engine. It was made apparent in SCCA,IMSA racing.
Not random and get your facts straight again. The r3 does 70.8. only the acr does 73.4 and the reg viper does 70.2. There are less than 20 cars that can out do the 8 in handling. The only car cheaper is the SS cobalt all the others are top end cars like s2k, acr viper, no fords, mercs, jag, only the gtr, no pontiac, toyota, vw, or volvo. The only cars better with a couple exceptions are supercars or specialty cars.
The viper is wrong and its not backwards. the engine placement makes a big difference, ask any short track racer or any race car driver that does more than nascar. There is alot about racing you seem to not know about. It is the very reason a zo6 has a dry sump oil system is to get the engine lower. The very reason the r8 handles so well (any mid engine). Lotus is more about weight and when you weigh a .5 ton less, easier to take the turn. F1, indy same reason. green to racing?
for the record, the rotary was able to corner better despite having a hp deficit. That goes to show what handling can do and use of power can do as the rotary powered car pulled away 2x and jeep is right. Power means nothing without being able to control it. The rotaries better balance proved, once again, its where the weight is and how you use the power is what matters most. Side note, driver ability does play a role too.
contrary to your belief, the position of the engine relative to the ground and its weight and balance there of have alot to do with the handling ability. the chassis is another topic and compliments the handling ablility along with the above said.
i like how they pretend the 20b was fucked. i bet it just nailed the falcon and they had to make the race a bit closer so they pulled out the 12a. how do u fuck the alternator of all things from a spin out...
sounds like a formula1..
sonic8002 2 weeks ago
v8 had no chance. even on the straights.
geraldo787b 2 months ago
Keep in mind that these are nothing like the factory street unibody cars you buy at the dealer. These are totally custom tube frame with fiberglass panel race cars. The motor on the Rx7 isn't even in the stock location, they moved it all the way up under the dash into the cockpit. I love Rx7's and rotary engines but you can't compare that yellow race car to a production unibody FC3S.
autoparts321 4 months ago
just quietly, rotary turbo, vs aspirated v8 far more intersting than 2 aspirated v8's having a go..
dchopchop 5 months ago
I don't even know what an alternator is but they should build it a little less fragile...one time offtrack can happen always, not good if ur out of the race after a small sidestep.
Therealanimale 6 months ago
weighs less blah blah more fuel efficient blah blah smaller blah blah cuter blah blah. go drag race the two fuckers.
blackjesuscracker616 7 months ago
Would have been different at bathurst!
fuckinghellcunt 9 months ago
I had a 2nd Generation RX7....It was stolen and found stripped in a field....If I could have ever found out who did it, they would never have use of their hands again...
Sure miss that car...It was quick...It had a few bolt ons and :)
scott93257 9 months ago
Actualy lemans had other issues with the rotary, all mazda had to do was add another rotor to exponentially increase hp... Though one must also consider that the rotory will use more fuel than other engines, so some of the weight saved by the engine you will have to carry a larger payload of fuel to sustain your output than a v12 twin turbo counterpart... Yes thats right ladies and gentleman a 4 rotor is similar to a twin turbo v12...
oxijex 11 months ago
Round 2 should be the quarter mile, that would be as fair as this race. Both are different animals, unique, but I'll take the V8 in the end.
jw924s 1 year ago
Hey another fair challenge would be chain the cars together for a tug of war; Mazda = owned
jw924s 1 year ago
stick shift.. b4 drivers had vaginas.
BJs4MePlz 1 year ago 2
hahaha could argue bout this forever, each to there own i guess, big cubes i say.
427green 1 year ago
that 3 rotor would have dominated the v8 lol
Tj1056 1 year ago
Nice video princess, my girlfriend wants to know how much you charge for a perm?
youngmasterjd 1 year ago
NEVER heard of a "Rotary" running a 4.5 sec pass before. V8 on the other hand ; )
427green 1 year ago
@427green yea but have you ever heard of a 1.3l piston engine run a 7 second pass?
Tj1056 1 year ago
thats entirely unfair, its not even a good V8
thatrowl 1 year ago
Nice if you like driving lawn mowers.....
korsion 1 year ago
Sure V8 fans have mullets and drink a lot of beer but rotary fans seem to be adolescent white kids who wear their hats up and on an angle
ultrarandom 1 year ago
@ultrarandom lol?
FC3SROTA 1 year ago
The rotary is unique ( German design...Audi ) but the v8 sound effects and driving fun make the Falcon the winner.
jw924s 1 year ago
fuk yer that rx goes soo hard
swat2400 1 year ago
Still prefer the feel of a v8 engine by far. I've driven a 13b RX-7 and an XR8, both stock. I much prefer the feel and sound of a V8 engine. They are so much more fun to drive than a rotary
ultrarandom 1 year ago
@ultrarandom Lol...Rotarys are the most fun you can have anytime of the day..while wearing pants lmao
FC3SROTA 1 year ago
@FC3SROTA I disagree immensely. I've driven an RX7 with a 13b in it. Nothing to rave about and it just makes an annoying sound and the torque takes quite a while to kick in, on top of that if you don't warm it up for 30 minutes you'll blow out the apex seals. However a nice V8 as seen in Mustangs and Chevys, those are the most fun to drive
ultrarandom 1 year ago
@ultrarandom torque takes quite a while to kick in? really...? it kicks in at 3k and goes all the way to 8k... the hole rpm band... so i wouldn't say that..
Tj1056 1 year ago
@Tj1056 Well I didn't feel it.
ultrarandom 1 year ago
@ultrarandom you should because when the second turbo kicks in it will jerk forward from the turbo torque... so you must have drove a burn out one of you are just lieing :)
Tj1056 1 year ago
@Tj1056 Well it wasn't a twin turbo?
And also a V8 has much more torque to begin with without the need for a turbocharger
ultrarandom 1 year ago
@ultrarandom O so you talking about the cheap ones that last long time :P but yet this rx7 beats the v8 with nearly 200 more hp then the rx7
Tj1056 1 year ago
I guess i'm lucky... I loved the sound of that v8, and i loved the sound of that knarly little 12a. Both make me remember why i throw too much money away on my cars. But.. that 2nd gen seven looks way better then that FALCON/holden
FLoYdInPink 1 year ago
mate your a toss , put the rotary in the falcon and the ford in a same small car and help it get traction with a few mods kill that 12a you clowns have no clue !!!!!!!!!!
perfectpete1974 1 year ago
20b should have gone straight up against the v8. would have put the v8 to shame at the launch
citizenwr100 1 year ago
i missed the bit about the rotary being turbo, turbo = huge advantage
its interesting if i read it right the year that the rotary won lemans 1991 they had a 170 kg weight advantage over every one else, rotary = win ...................don`t think so.
lets see a standard FG xr8 or Holden SS v8 vs a standard RX8 rotary around this track, i`d put money on it the poor old rotary would`nt see them for dust.
mikldude 1 year ago
@mikldude your an idiot...how is the rotary being turbo is huge advantage, even with the turbo it still was 150 hp less than the falcon..PLUS! its a 1.2L rotary that went against that v8..1.2L!!!
sidodorifto 1 year ago
@sidodorifto firstly a small tight track with not much straight with a big heavy na sedan and a light weight turbo charged mazda that revs to 9000 rpm plus, regardless of the hp difference its mazda advantage.
mikldude 1 year ago 8
@mikldude
and as of the LeMans 24hr......ofcourse it was a win for the rotary, everyone raced the best had and mazda ofcourse used its best engine which happened to be a rotary.....i bet if mazda wouldnt have won, they wouldnt have said shit bout "weight advantage"..it also says the mazda was underpowered...supid fool
sidodorifto 1 year ago
@sidodorifto possibly or they just got lucky due to crash outs and retirements, one other thing mate , because you don`t agree with somebody you don`t have to call them fools and idiots, in other words grow up a bit mate.
mikldude 1 year ago
haha i got 2 points, this video does not warrant any ability to comment on 2 totally different vehicles with so little testing, its farking ridiculous, chuck the 2 cars on a drag strip and lets see results.....
and for losers to say v8's are just generally slower, your mum and dad are siblings, simple naturally aspirated vehicles v8's win hands down, to get results you have to put the engine under extreme pressure, like i did with my rx7 till it popped, now with a v8, will never turn back....
lilboots3962 1 year ago
Pfft come on...its a sports sedan vs an ancient 2nd tier V8 supercar, around what is a glorified goat track.
floody79 1 year ago
Rotary power! mothafuckas!! haha! & that wasnt even a 13B, 20B, or 26B rotary imagine if the RX-7 had either of these engines in it?! its like erkal vs. tyson, no compitition, lol! dat big ass V8 lucky he didnt fly off the track tryin 2 keep up with the little 450 hp 12A. Dats the great thing about rotaries, u really dont have to add to much more power to one to get extraordinary performance considering the power to weight ratio of the engine. Rotary is da best engine known 2 man bottom line!!
lotusboy24 1 year ago
@lotusboy24 "power to weight ratio of the engine" are you retarded mate?
roidza 1 year ago
@roidza The engine is very small, yet it puts out tremendous power, but power 2 weight also goes for the power of the engine and da weight of the car 2, in this case, power 2 weight ratio played a part on both da power and da weight of the engine, plus da power of da engine and da weight of da car, but if u were listenin 2 da guy who drove da 12A Mazda, he clearly said that da engine has a good power 2 weight ratio, So looks to me like ur da retard 4 not payin attention MATE!! lol! come again.
lotusboy24 1 year ago
@lotusboy24 Opinion noted. Rotarys are awesome little engines for what they are, but they arent the best, show me the rotary that can pull 4.5 sec quarters @540kmh! Also if they were the best engine known to man, formula 1 cars would be using them instead of V8 POWER.
mrwinslowjenkins 1 year ago
@mrwinslowjenkins The same reason the ROTARY got banned from the Grand Le Mans once they saw how a small rotary ate pistons engines 2 or 3 times bigger for lunch! dats why they use V8's in fact a rotary at high revs would put out just as much RPM, and the engine pitch is almost the same in high revs, so dont think ROTARIESarent the best, most mechanically efficient engine known to man. Like I said, The ROTARYwas Banned from the LE MANS 24 HR RACE!, not some nascar race, THE GRAND LEMANS 24! ;-)
lotusboy24 1 year ago
@lotusboy24 Wow didnt know they were banned! I love both V8s, and rotarys for their technology but the truth is you cant seal them properly. On any build the first thing to break are the seals, so theres no way a rotary engine could handle 5000hp. That said, one of my dream cars is the legendary quad rotor RX7 built by MAD MIKE! Have u seen this beast?
mrwinslowjenkins 1 year ago
@mrwinslowjenkins Yeah u are right, the little rotary coudnt handle dat much power, but yeah, I know exactly what car ur talkin about, The Redbull RX-7 they got a RX-8 one 2, but ur also right about the seals, you might as well keep a few of those on deck when racing a rotary, but yeah they were banned back in like the mid 70's I believe, now they know how to tune them to proper specs, to compete with the piston engine, but for the record, Im a huge fan of the LS7-V8 out of the ZO6 vette myself!
lotusboy24 1 year ago
@mrwinslowjenkins And to anwser ur other question, a V8@540kmh in that time, well its obviously a drag car ur reffering to, So with that being said ,Im sure if u do some serious rebuilding and tuning (which can be done to any engine including the rotary) and run straight up alcohol or methanol wit nitrous, hell yeah it would do 540kmh in 4.5 secs down the quarter. Drain that alcohol, (im not goin to even call that fuel) and put regular race fuel in it, performance will decrease dramatically,..
lotusboy24 1 year ago
@lotusboy24 look up PULSE PERFORMANCE built 4 rotor of mad mike, one of the best videos on youtube hands down.
mrwinslowjenkins 1 year ago
didnt need 2 v8's to do this test did they.....
dawso4sure 1 year ago
the guy in the xr8 cant drive at all he was on the brakes way to early and hard thats why the rotary got around him in that corner, and you can see and hear he was on the gas way to early out of the corners and just frying his tyres. i respect rotaries but fuck that guy is shit and the announcer is a tool!
shnoogliboots 1 year ago
Narrators a wanker!!!!! See V8 super cars why are rotaries alowed in? cos the V8's would get smoked. and yeah the Narrators a wanker!!!!!!
OliOzzie 1 year ago
This isnt so much Rotary vs v8 but rather japan vs Australia. The Rx7 kicks the shit out of the falcon and the rx7 is about 10 years older. 12a is even older again, this is more of a realisation to how slow v8 supercars really are, and how a v8 unless in a space frame really arent worth anything. V8's are to heavy, and make the car balance too shit, it really would have been funny to watch how much the 20b would have kicked the shit out of the v8 even though its technology is years old aswell.
FergusBurger 1 year ago
for the blokes compareing engines how about put the rotary in the falcon and the v8 in the rotary see how quick the rotary gets the falcon around ;)
mikldude 1 year ago
@mikldude the v8 in the rx7 would throw off the balance of the car, making the handling pure shit. People who put v8s in rx7 just try to drag race them.
joshywebb 1 year ago
@joshywebb point taken mate, i was really just trying to make a point, while the rotaries go well , they don`t make a lot of torque that you could put in a large heavy car.
mikldude 1 year ago
it would have been interesting to see the two cars haveinga go around mt panorama, i suspect the rotary may not be as quick..
mikldude 1 year ago
So one race-built car is faster than another race-built car, each driven by a different drivers. This only proves that the rx-7 in this video is faster than the falcon in this video on the track in this video when driven by these drivers. The supremacy of rotary engines has hardly been established.
bassman444 1 year ago
i want a falcon, too bad they only have mustang in US -.-
coolgames14 1 year ago
now lets see it against a 4.0l FI?
Zoltanius87 1 year ago
hahaha this video is like comparing apples to oranges. rotary = lighter, revvier, mounted inside the wheel-base. V8 = heavy, torquey, mounted over/in front of front wheels. You can't compare the 2, and respect should be paid both ways, even if the EL Falcon supercars were particularly ugly lol
Xran250 1 year ago
munch munch pistons for lunch!!!! brapp brapp brrappp
peekingi 2 years ago
And the rx wins . . . . . IN STYLE !!!
aotearoastyle 2 years ago
.. lol "" tiny little 12a."".. funny
rwizzard7 2 years ago
rotaries are amazing engines but for day to day living i would take the 8
Paiste402 2 years ago
thats a 20b engine. triple rotor. that things beautiful.
19keelan 2 years ago
v8 = Owned.
Rotary = Win.
AcidAngel7 2 years ago 11
theres more to cars then engine power afterall, the FC has a better balance close to 50/50 , its lighter, the chasis is more rigid, and it handles alot better than a falcon, also the rotary revs a hell of alot quicker then a v8 due to the fact theres less moving parts and less mass, and also because the rotors are continually spinning in the same direction it doesnt have to fight inertia going up and down.
Sefveron 2 years ago
of the same capacity, 5L v8 vs 5L rotary. 5L rotary wins , end of story.
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
hey if you would like to have discussion then lets do that and keep the swearing out of it...maybe we will both learn as i have in trying to find the most true and fair comparison of these two engines...i am not biased at all as i love engines and love rotaries and cannot wait to build an N/A 13b center bearing crank pp that will rev it's nut out(hell yeah bitch)now that would be sick!!!!!! i don't even believe that in my estimation of thw 12a =1146cc is correct per rev
darbet83 2 years ago
Sorry for the language there brother, Im a bit of a hothead for no apparent reasons at times cheers i just re-read what u were saying before and i first thought it appeared to be in favour of the v8s which it wasnt it was a civilised discussion on the pros and cons. Cheers mate for not flaming back.
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
your statement is simply not true that rotary s have more power per capacity compared to a piston engine...why..simple fact that taking in only N/A engines into consideration what engine has the most power per capacities????? well an F1 engine with approx 900hp per 3L??????
darbet83 2 years ago
Well , they make that power at rpms above 17k, simply due to increased overlap and narrow pulse width, with the same r and d in a rotary, u could make double that out of a 13b reving that high, remember 13b Na bridge ports, at 8800rpm are making close to 400bhp. Imagine with loads of r and d what it could make at 19k rpm :P
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
as far as being bias is concerned if you bothered to read my other post to other people you may find it interesting to know that i have rotary's in high regard and would love to see them develop the shit out of as stated in a comment i made the other day which i will post for you to see...now play nice and how about we both research and find a good comparison
darbet83 2 years ago
hey just read you replies and yes go the rotaries.... v8 sixex and four as i lovem all....now the rotary build with the same capacities worked out buy an f1 engineer(and not fia) would not make double the power but i am of firm belief that there is more power potential out of a rotar and am aware of there fuel efficiency potential over a piston engine
darbet83 2 years ago
<3 , but close to that or whatnot , like you i am taking a wild guess at things. I love all cars anyway but always had a soft spot for these little weapons
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
yeah but dude... a 5L rotary would have a monster engine with 3000hp!
Creativics00 2 years ago
so almost same capacities per rev 1146cc /1250cc .but needs a turbo and is in a lighter car?so why is the rotary so good.less friction loss/light weight and rev thus different diff ratio
also power per cc is this
v8=152.75 per rev
12a-112.5 per rev
....ROTARY"S MAKE LESS POWER per liter...n/a 130hp 13b/6000rpm uses1300cc per rev to make this power
2L zetec ford 130hp uses 500cc to make this power per rev.same revs same 130hp
darbet83 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
fair point.i am a porche sworkshop owner ...i own a 2L pinto powered rs2000 track car! i have owned a 7600rpm revving 351.430hp.top loader XC street car plus have a 12 sec Suby leonie wrxturbow engined car..i know al ot about stuff...now....if F1 allowed rotaries to be used i bet they would kick ass over piston engines......so long as they could get them to rev to 20krpm....and if they can make a pistons travel up and down at that rate i bet they could make a rotor go round in round at the rate
darbet83 2 years ago
Obviously an ex 'V8 Super Car', if you could call it super....
Just remember all you V8 lovers, Rotaries, Turbo 4's and turbo 6's were banned from the Aussie Touring cars cause they were to fast. So instead, the rules now state it has to be a push rod engine with rear drive.
Toyota would have smashed em they were allowed to run the 4L Quad cam FWD in the series like they wanted to.
Aussie cars are shit. That's why I own a Toyota and a VW.
Don't argue, I work on em every day.
ozzybungle 2 years ago
Dud what front wheel drive V8 4L dohc does Toyota have ???????????
darbet83 2 years ago
It is what Toyota was proposing to race in the V8 'Super cars'.
This was maybe 5 or more years ago.
ozzybungle 2 years ago
it was rear wheel drive and borrowed either a ford or holden v8........magna was going to do the same thing!!!!! as far as i remember
darbet83 2 years ago
wow makes me wonder what would have happened if the 20b went lol
well luckly the 16x will solve the rotary torque problem, and why are people talking about a fair comparison? the fact: rotary= more power per liter in a smaller engine and higher rpm. DONE. if you put the rotary in the falcon it won't go as fast because it has 164 hp (and ?? torque) LESS than the v8 because its in a heavier car. the 20b on the other hand, i would place a good bet on winning even if it was in the falcon.
lorddesmordes 2 years ago
true that!
and why are people still going on abouut whats fair nn what not?... its a fuking 12A ( smallest rotary out.. other than the 10A) you cant say that this is unfair.. wel yea its unfair to the rotary. the Falcon.. over 600 od hp how is this unfair?
v8 scuz's are just oo caught up in thier own nikkas to admit that a rotary is by far a more supreme engine and always will be!
yer wait till the 16x comes out ( if it ever does)
rotorpowa 2 years ago
yeah buddy!! its not the 20b that win's..its the 12aT...v8 for the lose.
AcidAngel7 2 years ago
is this test really a fair race? taxi vs sports car? think about it. or at least turbo dads famly sedan, yeesh. and the track is tiny for a big falcon, that things loose
xb250power 2 years ago
1.2L vs 6.0L and the rotary still comes out on top???
what more needs to be said!!!!
hes just lucky that the 20b wasnt in action mwahaha
makes me laugh how all these silly aussies love gay 8 supercars....thinkin there the bestest thing to ever hit the earth....and a little wankel will annihilate them ahahah
joeskioner 2 years ago
before you get all excited about a Turbo 1.2L rotor vs 5L ( not 6L) N/A V8, just remember that you cant compare cubic capacity between a rotor and a piston engine as they are measured differently. a rotor is measured on the largest part of the intake cycle where as a piston engine is measured on the entire swept volume , so a fairer comparison maybe to times the rotors displacement by around 3 (i dont know the exact calculation) so a 1.2 becomes a 3.6 , and remember piston engines r 4 stroke...
xb250power 2 years ago
a 1.3 b works out to be either 2.3l or 2.6 l depends on who you believs....so the 12a is a little smaller
darbet83 2 years ago
NO it works out to be 1308cc full swept volumetric efficiency.
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
yes ROTARYMN2144 it does per revolution and a v8 of 5000cc only has a swept volume of 1250cc per vev...get you facts correct in relation to the v8 5l
A porsche 968 3L 4cylinder has only 750cc per rev. and 240hp=approx 30hp per revolution
v8 is 128hp
12a turbo is approx 85hp per rev
darbet83 2 years ago
No they make more power per capacita then any conventional piston engines, you just using so called bigger words to make yourself seem smart, clearly you are a biased fuckwit. The most effficient combustion engine in the world is the renesis with approx 35%.Per Litre rotaries make ~ 2.2 - 2.5 x more power than a convention motor does. Fact. not fiction you need to re-research on a non biased source.
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
funny how the falcon has crap weight distrobution and still beats the rotor to the 1st corner, torque mate, any1 up for a corvette vs rotor challenge?
xb250power 2 years ago
i've seen a 650hp 12a..
12a power for the win.
AcidAngel7 2 years ago
so the turbo rotor is actually slower , it just handles better. would be funny calling 4 a cab and a rx7 turns up....
xb250power 2 years ago
HAHAH an rx7 with a v8 that is.
rotary - win
v8 - big for nothing pos.
this video = proof of that.
v8s are for towing rotaries are for going.
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
fastest drag car- v8, fastest production car- SSC ultimate aero-v8, fastest production car around nurburg ZR1-v8. (and i think they are all pushrod v8s lol)
xb250power 2 years ago
who gives 2 shits, fastest drag car because no one has proper brains or money to build a well worked 4 rotor , trust me mate , if they spend the same money involved in top fullers on a rotary u will get atleast 2x better result, as for production cars , no gives shit , prodcutioncars can easily be beaten with a lower budget used in an rx7,
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
2x better than a top fuel er is not possible....that means it would run 2,5 1/4mile...hahahha at least make believable comments
darbet83 2 years ago
Dude its obvious , rotaries make exactly between 2.2 - 2.5 x as much power and torque as a piston motor per capacita.
atleast 2 times better than a topfueler at that same size without forced induction.
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
No obviously you have not qualified intelligent enough to even study physics , i said atleast 2 times as much power, not half the time quicker retard.
Ever hear of a hyperbola? as x approaches Infinity y will approach 0, same concept here, with all that extra power and torque with less weight , your still not gonna be 2 times as quick because the forces of friction and air resistance and whatnot will be greater as u increase in speed. THus more force holding u back that u need to overcome.
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
From the above you can see each individual separate chamber (3 per rotor) only fires after 1080 crank shaft degree's has elapsed,, this is why the Wankel is so different to ANY other
darbet83 2 years ago
type of engine, 2 strokes fire each individual chamber once every 360 degree's and 4 strokes fire every individual chamber every 720 degree's.If you look at a 13B with its 654cc per Individual chamber capacity (thus 1308cc) you can see it aspirates this ONCE every single revolution thus you can compare the 13B to a 2 stroke if you must do so on an equivalence basis (but remember you are not counting the other 2/3rd's of the combustion faces
darbet83 2 years ago
Now if you compare it to the much more common 4 stroke engine you can see that 2 faces ONLY are being counted in the engine and thus it has aspirated a total of 2616cc over 720 degree's of crank shaft rotation....... nice little bit of info there but it still misses a whole 1/3rd of the engine!Finally the ONLY TRUE way to look at a Wankel Rotary is to view it in its own cycle! (and not comparing it to something that it is NOT!) this is only over 1080 degree's of crank shaft rotation, where
darbet83 2 years ago
ALL of the working faces can be accounted for (just as when you do a compression test to see if the poor little donk is healthy or not) For it is only when the entire engine has complete one full cycle of work can it thus be rated, be that as functional or in its true capacity sense. You will then see that the humble 13B is indeed 654cc x 3 working faces x number of rotors ! = 3924.Equivalence capacity to time scale (revolutions) for 13B engine, has one power pulse per 360 degree's per rotor
darbet83 2 years ago
all arguments aside , 6L v8 vs 6L rotary , what will win.? if a 1.2L rotary can crush a v8 supercar, im sure a 2.6 L (26b) will crush it N/a
6L v8 (no supercharge) = roughly 800hp if ur pushing it.
2.6L rotary (no supercharger) (787b) 700hp @ 8000(restricted dont forget rotaries are high revers) over 900hp @ around 10.5k rpm, and it keeps climbing, rotaries cannot be matched for power to weight ratio and capacity to power , in theory if u could build a supercharged quadrotor in a rail it willbe
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
actually rotaries are heavier then you think, and it depends on how you count the displacement...
for example the 1.3, has 2 rotars, 3 faces each, therefore 6 power making faces, yet each has 650cc(roughly of capacity)... but the only count 2 of the 6 for 1300 cc....
so that 1300 actually pumps 3900 liters of air for each cycle...
mageac 2 years ago
finaly someone said it!!! thank you ,
xb250power 2 years ago
Megaeac..what do u think of my thinking?...if we take one crank rev and add the work done from each engine this is what i concluded would be the comparison of a 12a and a 5Lv8
12a=2x573cc per 1rev=1143cc work power per rev
5L=2x625cc per 1 rev=1250cc work power per rev
as each engine completes the as stated cc displacement of work per revolution they are almost the same capacities in this example,1143cc againes1250cc!!!!
darbet83 2 years ago
so almost same capacities per rev 1146cc /1250cc .but needs a turbo and is in a lighter car?so why is the rotary so good.less friction loss/light weight and rev thus different diff ratio
also power per cc is this
v8=152.75 per rev
12a-112.5 per rev
....ROTARY"S MAKE LESS POWER per liter...n/a 130hp 13b/6000rpm uses1300cc per rev to make this power
2L zetec ford 130hp uses 500cc to make this power per rev.same revs same 130hp
darbet83 2 years ago
the issue is that the v8 uses a different lenght cycle to complete its pattern, 720 degrees, and in 180 only 1250 ccs of air is drawn in, while in a rotary the cycle is only 540 degrees
so its kind of hard to directly compare, but yeah those rotaries pump about the same amount of air/fuel as a small v8, and usually burn just as much if not more fuel...
plus an aluminum v8 is usually a bit lighter...
mageac 2 years ago
Law of conservation of mass, Mass isnt lost or gained. And in relation to engines, v8s are larger in size and hence will be much heavier than a rotary. An aluminium v8 will maybe come close to a full steel built rotary engine. 13b.
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
v8s are larger generally, but most of the area inside a v8 is empty space, a rotary has little empty space, a 13b rew weighs something like 375 pound, and makes 280 hp, an ls7 weighs about 400-450 and makes 505 hp... nearly double the power and less then 100 pounds more....without the need for a turbo
mageac 2 years ago
A 13B without intake and exhaust manifold is about 150-200pounds...
A Pport 13b with aluminium plates weigh 110pounds, and make 300whp N/A
Theeffc3s 2 years ago
a 13b with "aluminum plates" , which only alunimum here and there most of the engine HAS to be steel, is much much more then 110 pounds...
and thats modified to hell to get 300 hp,
and if you want to talk modified... a n/a ls7 can make 800+ hp easy... and still weigh around 425...
mageac 2 years ago
Porting, rx8 rotors and eshaft, and a good fuel system
Theeffc3s 2 years ago
1.3litre Rotary
Ls7, what is it a 6.0+ litre engine.
Big difference in displacement. IMO not a real fair comparison.
yourmotherrules 2 years ago
when the ls7 weighs little more, and the 1.3 gets worse mileage, then yeah pretty fair comparison
considering the 1.3 is toted to be a high power to weight ratio engine, and the 7.0 ls7 has a much much better power to weight ratio...
mageac 2 years ago
Power to litre ratio. Much higher on the 1.3 than a 7.0 litre ls7. Im just sayin, there's alot more engineering in the rotary than the ls7.
yourmotherrules 2 years ago
do you know how a rotary works... its a MILLION times simpler then an ls7....
and power to displacement means literally nothing, who cars if they call it a 1.3 ( its actually a 3.9) it still weighs nearly 375 pounds and makes what 150 hp stock...
while and ls7 weighs 450 and make 505 hp... which would you rather in a performance car...
mageac 2 years ago
Please explain to me how it's a 3.9. It's measured as a 1.3, if anything, it can be considered to be 2.6 because it has 2 chambers, but it's not regarded as that because you can't compare the displacement of a rotary engine to a piston engine.
rew engine can be much lighter, just mazda fails at turboing it.
yourmotherrules 2 years ago
1.3 is the size of 2 rotor faces(650cc ish each), it has 6... would you count 2 cylinders in a v6?
if you add up the amount of air it pumps in one cycle, as that's how piston engines are measured, its a 3.9
the rew engines are the turbo ones... which weigh about 375-400 pounds and make 255 - 280 hp...
mageac 2 years ago
Are you dumb? You don't count the faces as the displacement.
Ugh. Not going to explain this. But what you have road or were told was rung.
Btw, those Rx-7's with 280hp had around 265whp. they had more than that.
yourmotherrules 2 years ago
i know they dont count the faces, but they should, they count how much air it pumps in 1/3 of a cycle...
mageac 2 years ago
actually we had a 13b pp block on our engine dyno with titanium rotors revving to around 13k we made 550 hp on pump fuel and the block only weighed 45kg's.
still had 2k rpms more to go so easy 600 hp.
rotaryman2144 1 year ago
"Mageac" is rite. a piston engine is measured by the complete swept volume , rotor is only measured buy largest part of the induction cycle and not the rest of the volume where air/fuel is. each time a combustion takes place in a rotor it causes 1 crank rotation, yet a four stroke piston engine only has 1 combustion for two crank turns, so a more even match maybe a 2stroke with the same combustion to crank turn ratio... and a 125 2stroke is up there with 250 4strokes... think about it...
xb250power 2 years ago
ya think about it fool that means rotary is superior.
spyderhex 2 years ago
they are a good idea but torque is their biggest downfall.
xb250power 2 years ago
Everything is about sacrifice... ya they dont have as much torque but you get a nice power band on the top end of things... if only american muscle could take a god damn corner you might have a chance lolz
spyderhex 2 years ago
so no good for dayley use? the new VE commy v8 does 1500rpm at 100ks, my 6cyl fairmont does 1900rpm at 100ks. and evan tho the corvette zr1 has a heavy v8 in the front it is 1 of the fastest production cars around nurburgring (if not the fastest), pulls more Gs in the corners than the GTR and has the same 0-100 as the GTR with RWD and no "launch assist" lol . dont get me startd on the N/A viper that does over 100ks in 1st lol. thats torque
xb250power 2 years ago
we can discuss this all day but thank god for youtube. V8 or rotary? well, watch the vid and ur question is answered. 12a vs v8. not even close. lucky the 20b wasnt able to run that would have been much worse.
spyderhex 2 years ago
so i guess if we put that rotor engine in a falcon the outcome would be the same, or the v8 engine mid mounted in a rx7? so if you feel cozy that a turbo mid mounted sports car beat a naturaly aspirated front engined family sedan im glad 4 u.
xb250power 2 years ago
the rx-7 chassis is built specifically for harnessing the true power of the rotary engine, young grasshopper. the answer is yes. the outcome would be the same... lol the rx7 will still win with the v8.
spyderhex 2 years ago
fair point.i am a porche sworkshop owner ...i own a 2L pinto powered rs2000 track car! i have owned a 7600rpm revving 351.430hp.top loader XC street car plus have a 12 sec Suby leonie wrxturbow engined car..i know al ot about stuff...now....if F1 allowed rotaries to be used i bet they would kick ass over piston engines......so long as they could get them to rev to 20krpm....and if they can make a pistons travel up and down at that rate i bet they could make a rotor go round in round at the rate
darbet83 2 years ago
make a 8L rotory and we shall see the torque different,,,,since the engine would be half the wight and the box and diff would be lighter i would count on the weight and the friction loss thru the vipers to be a downfall in comparison......
darbet83 2 years ago
a 13b turbo weighs almost as much as the corvettes ls7....imagine what one 8 times larger would weigh... you would need to put it in a bus to carry the thing...
mageac 2 years ago
turbo rotor have a fair amount of torque for the weight of the cars they push
darbet83 2 years ago
much faster than a topfuler.
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
lol the tripple rotar 20b methonel engine rotary beat it sorry mate
8metallica9 2 years ago
beat wat? my sisters tricycle when being peddaled by a rotor boy as his tiny seals have crapt out? wat r u refering 2?
xb250power 2 years ago
Why did he put a 12A in it and not a 13B. That would seem like the smarter choice.
Atheismrulez 2 years ago
It doesn't have a 12a in it... they clearly say 20b...
Draelren 2 years ago
The video: it doesn't look like you were paying attention to it. The last Rotary in the video has a 12A and 450 HP and was going against a Falcon.
Atheismrulez 2 years ago
Yeah, after I got a minute into it I was like "oh... nevermind!" haha...
I love that a 1.2L rotary can pump out 450hp... lol
I haven't seen a 450hp 12a yet, most I've seen is ~350...
Draelren 2 years ago
Yeah, most are between 350-400 HP, but that's because the engine doesn't have that good horsepower output. The 13B has much better power output and less problems, and the weight difference is minimal, so I think a 13B would always be a better choice. Also, it can be had more easily.
Atheismrulez 2 years ago
Depends on which you're talking about, the 13b out of a s4 RX-7, or out of an s5? Then you got the 13b-t, 13b-re, 13b-rew, and 13b-msp... so...
Draelren 2 years ago
13B-T simply means 13B-DEI turbocharged, and the 13B-RE, and 13B-REW are simply other turbocharged models based off the 13B-DEI. The only two true variants in terms of design of the engine are the 13B-DEI and 13B-MSP (Renesis). Leaving that aside, I was talking about the 13B-MSP used in the RX-8. The 13B-DEI simply doesn't have that high power output stock compared to the MSP.
Atheismrulez 2 years ago
Yeah, and the only difference in the MSP is the location of the ports, when the 16x comes out at least then there will be some serious changes to the rotor housings as well.
Draelren 2 years ago
can pump out 1000hp if u push enough money into the engine.
rotaryman2144 2 years ago
its too easy to make up things sometimes...
ive seen a rotary powered bull dozer pull 1.3 g at the skid pad!!!
mageac 2 years ago
The lotus handles well due to being so light, it doesnt have to overcome as much inertia and it is specifically built so light so that it doesnt need as much power to achieve what a vette and others do. Fast cars dont have to have as much hp. if they are light when racing in the turns.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
The 3 rotor rx8 had the fastest lap time in SCCA racing for this very reason besting, vette, z,s2k, m3,5,6 and mercs too. This is the open class where just about anything goes with the rules in respect to the class. The reason the 8 did so well, cornering ability. It wasnt the highest hp car but could take the corners better than any you have stated. The lotus did not compete in this class cause it is so light.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
i never said the chassis was good on a falcon. Side note... why are you copying my format? Lastly, most racing chassis such as in Le Mans and indy ect. build chassis around the engine and not vise versa, as was the case of the 787b in 91
cliffkemp 2 years ago
The falcon may not be a great car but, balance and handling are enhanced greatly by where the weight is in relation to the CG of the car. This is the whole reasoning behind midengine cars such as Lotus, ferrari, and lambo. ex. if the chassis of both cars were the same, the rotary would still have better handling due to the ability to place the engine in a better place to enhance handling. I figured you knew all this.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
whats that have to do with the price of oranges in china?
why exactly does the rotary get placed better...
and how does it affect handling any more then say... moving the front wheels say a half inch forward.... corvette has 50/50 and its a "heavy" v8 in the front... and a viper has a 49/51 with a 600 hp 8.4 v10 in the front...
how about a lotus elise... they corner amazingly... they have a 38/62 weight balance
mageac 2 years ago
I believe we have had this discussion before. first off, in class racing you have 2 choices, run stock chassis or modify it and it puts you in other classes based on mods. So, with that being said (cannot believe you keep asking this) the rotary has the best advantage due to the weight being lowest to the ground for cornering and change of inertia. Not any car made today can do this cause that is a drawback of the piston engine. It was made apparent in SCCA,IMSA racing.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
you just keep on stating random crap...
rx8 does what 65 mph in the slalom...with the almighty wankel of course...
dodge viper 77mph... with an 8.4 v10...
seems a little backwards to me...
matter of the fact is, the engine makes little to no difference in the handling in the car....
now if you had a 5 ton Caterpillar diesel it would make a difference but thats about it
mageac 2 years ago
Not random and get your facts straight again. The r3 does 70.8. only the acr does 73.4 and the reg viper does 70.2. There are less than 20 cars that can out do the 8 in handling. The only car cheaper is the SS cobalt all the others are top end cars like s2k, acr viper, no fords, mercs, jag, only the gtr, no pontiac, toyota, vw, or volvo. The only cars better with a couple exceptions are supercars or specialty cars.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
The viper is wrong and its not backwards. the engine placement makes a big difference, ask any short track racer or any race car driver that does more than nascar. There is alot about racing you seem to not know about. It is the very reason a zo6 has a dry sump oil system is to get the engine lower. The very reason the r8 handles so well (any mid engine). Lotus is more about weight and when you weigh a .5 ton less, easier to take the turn. F1, indy same reason. green to racing?
cliffkemp 2 years ago
u r a smart man. sofar all your comments are correct , (except the rotory bulldozer, lol)
xb250power 2 years ago 2
different day different track would make a different outcome....
its impossible to run 2 cars once and say ones better then the other outright...
mageac 2 years ago
for the record, the rotary was able to corner better despite having a hp deficit. That goes to show what handling can do and use of power can do as the rotary powered car pulled away 2x and jeep is right. Power means nothing without being able to control it. The rotaries better balance proved, once again, its where the weight is and how you use the power is what matters most. Side note, driver ability does play a role too.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
the balance and handling of the car has nothing to do with the engine inside it, its the chassis of the car...
side note... the falcon isn't exactly a performance vehicle in the first place
mageac 2 years ago
contrary to your belief, the position of the engine relative to the ground and its weight and balance there of have alot to do with the handling ability. the chassis is another topic and compliments the handling ablility along with the above said.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
little rotary monster!
2C00L4UB1TCH 2 years ago
i like how they pretend the 20b was fucked. i bet it just nailed the falcon and they had to make the race a bit closer so they pulled out the 12a. how do u fuck the alternator of all things from a spin out...
guitardude1050 2 years ago