I know this is a great point of debate in the USA but I don't know of anywhere else where this is so. That is to say in none of the countries with public healthcare is it being debated whether to switch to private, except since the austerity measures being implemented (in Europe) are right wingers suggesting some slight forms of privatisation just to lower government costs. So it's very questionable whether private healthcare really is better.
The free market system of economics is superior in ALL ways. Can you stop and take an objective look at the history of the U.S. economy, and wonder why every country in the world either models its after ours, or in envious of us economically? Open your eyes, if you're interested in the truth. The evidence is overwhelming.
So you assume that I haven't looked at the things of life and eternity objectively. Wrong. I was unsaved for almost half of my life before hearing 'the other side'--the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I'd heard every worldly solution for mankind's, and my, problems before I heard God's. Guess what: God makes more sense than every unsaved man put together. What is that 'they' say these days? It was a slam dunk. A no-brainer. But I know why you think as you do, because I did once.
@theRightizright OH CHRIST. Would you read what I said! I didn't think or assume or project any opinion about religion, I was saying you were holding on to the theory of capitalism, like it was a spiritual religion instead of taking heed of the facts on the ground. Now please fuck off cos you're obviously an illiterate 5 year old.
I can use proper grammar and spelling, which is more than you seem capable of. Capitalism is superior to every other system at present; and by your own admission--
" I was saying you were holding on to the theory of capitalism, like it was a spiritual religion..."
--YOU crossed over from political to the reference to religion, regardless of your intent. Judging from your posts, you're the one out of touch with reality and facts.
@theRightizright I was describing your negation and ignorance of the actual situation. If you believe healthcare institutions should waste billions by advertising for insurance, for the sake of 'free-market capitalism', instead of using that money to improve the services they deliver, I think it's absolutely valid to say: stop holding on to capitalism in this religious manner.
I stated important facts in my first comment (which you have so far ignored).
The ignorance in this stream of comments is all yours. Free market economics has driven the U.S.A. to the top of the world's economy, and kept it there. The meddling of the nazi-in-chief and his criminal cohorts in insurance, manufacturing, banking, and everywhere else they try to exercise control is nothing less than treason. Capitalism works. It fixes its own problems. The market adjusts itself. Goods sell, or not. Producers compete. Consumers in. Get over yourself.
Time to whine about the people who abuse the system, is it? I figured that was coming. Anyone who would support the socialist extremist-in-chief's policies over the free market system of economy is nothing more than a fool. Look around the world. Check out other countres. See how they're doing, and whether they have free market or some oppressive kind of economy, like communism, socialism, marxism; then recall nazism. Look at the dictatorships. Our economy is the best.
@theRightizright the Usa needed Roosevelt, the new deal and the second world war to become the world's hegemon. Capitalists destroy the economy and then they steal public money to rebuild themselves. Americans are so stupid for letting it happen. In European countries we have formed proper opposition and our standard of living is far higher. So, again, fuck off 5-year-old and learn how to have a real discussion instead of beating your chest and sucking an abstract dick.
You're as big a fool as your kaiser-in-chief is a liar. You see everything his way--jackass-backwards. You've swallowed every lie, drunk all the koolaid....but wait....let's say it this way: Which country in the world has led the way economically, politically, spiritually, militarily, and practically every other way? Which country has been more generous to the world? Which country have people been beating the door down to get into for, say, more than half a century? lol.
@theRightizright Your country had dominated the world by force and become the worlds hegemon after ww2 because europe was destroyed. therefore you're economy is the strongest. Has very little to do with actual capitalism. This started as me putting forward a real argument about healthcare. Since then you've spouted rediculous propaganda myths. I won't respond again until you get serious because this is wasting my time.
Fine. We'll forego the fact that the rest of the world could be as prosperous as we are, economically, if they had a free enterprise system of capitalism. You want health care? The 'death panels' are already in place here. How about in your country? Yes, selective coverage is part of any socialist 'health care'. I know friends in Canada who have waited hours to see a doctor, days to be treated, and NEVER got an operation they needed. We generally have the best health care.
President Obama NEEDS to give a thorough explanation on "Change We Can Believe In" and the book "The Audacity of Hope." Will he prove his true nature and personality? Become proactive to minimize the success of all organizations that create burdens especially the middle class. Historical fact , the Middle Class was created by Muslims and Jews allowing economic growth. I write supportive letters through the official White House Website. What will you do? Do you give a damn?
Bankruptcy cure is taxes. One big idea that the 'noblemen' hated right before the French Revolution. The people had nothing...and the noblemen refused to fix the problem. When you figure out that your Health is the same as food, then when the riots start that demand something is done about the 'class' divisions...you will then understand "we the people' America..the FIRST SOCIAL GOVERNMENT
There are still people out there that think this is "Government Health Ins." and don't know that it is really "Private FOR PROFFIT Health Ins." and it will be government enforced. The corporations are taking over the peoples government and that is Fascism.
the key is the END OF WHAT JACOB HACKER SAID regarding employers --- watch when he says "if they STILL OFFER IT"; anyone that has seen major headlines knows that several major corporations and employers (like McDonald's) are already saying they are going to stop coverage
THE PLAN IS LIKE FREE CANDY FOR THE LARGEST INSURERS (THE BAD ONES) AND WILL ELIMINATE SMALL PRIVATE BUSINESS INSURERS. THEIR WERE HUGE PARTIES IN K STREET FOR THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY THE NIGHT IT PASSED WHILE DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS SAID THEY WOULD BE FURIOUS OVER IT.
Do anyof these BOZOS even stop to think about the fact that the Insurance companies are the 3rd leading industry in the USA. They give about 1 in five families their income. Can you imigine the massive increase in unemployment, in home forclosures, in the need for public assistance, etc. Next, stop and think about the fact that many people worked hard to build their insurance businesses, who is the government to strip them of that just out of greed? Look at what they did to Chrysler dealers!
What the hell is this video trying to prove?Obama is lying? Dude you are barking up the wrong tree with that one. I don't think we have had a politician who has ever told the truth 100%! You know what else is not about choice, ending up in an out of network hospital even though you have your own Private Insurance! LMFAO! Think your safe? Try calling your private insurer and ask them what happens if you end up in an OUT OF NETWORK Hospital. Then get back to me and this title! LMFAO LMFAO!!!!
THIS GUY IS A PATHETIC JACKASS. WHAT HE DOES NOT SAY IS THAT A FAMILY OF 4 WITH AN INCOME OF 100K OR MORE WILL BE HIT WITH OBAMA PAYMENT OF MORE THEN 3 K A MONTH.... WOW THATS A HUGE INCREASE.. WE WONT HAVE FREEDOM ANYMORE
The workers create the wealth. The government has NO MONEY OF ITS OWN; only what it takes in levies and fees from every pay envelope. Freedom dictates an individual citizen to have a choice as to what is best for him/herself.
Everyone who is reading this comment, please click on my username for my videos I made about the The Truth of the World. I have found out what the truth of life is, the truth of the world, and the truth of God. Please, I really want people to watch and listen what I have to say. No more living in false reality, no more living in illusions, no more thinking there is no way out......its time to lead your life into The Truth of the World!!!!!!!!!
1. REPUBLICANS ARE EVIL. Two massive tax cuts for the VERY RICH under Bush which were NOT paid for. 2. They ran up EIGHT TRILLION OF DEBT! When Clinton left office we had a surplus (ZERO DEBT). 3. They spend A TRILLION on the Iraq war TO DATE. 4. They DON'T want to give healthcare to the citizens in the RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD under a plan that IS PAID FOR. 5. Republicans ALSO used reconcilation! 6. They perpetuate FEAR MONGERING AND SCARE TACTICS. THEY ARE EVIL AND DISGUST ME!
@ersatx210: And people are waking up to the fact that, although Obama is not exactly a saint, certain forces have been railroading him from the start, among MANY other things.
We're "AmTracking" the most innovative and effective healthcare system the world has ever known, all because Liberals think they can have something for nothing. Chumps.
The thing is the democrats had a majority and still could not accomplish anything they said they would do,then there is the issue of too many government jobs instead of creating help for private sector to get business going. Payments to gov employees (increases in wage) doesnot create new jobs ultimately causes tax increases to pay gov job wages in meantime parks close,roads not repaired,its a democratic cluster screwup
hey man,,you publicans & chumps wid all da money be better figgverin out how to hide it fast..da man be good at pickin yo pocket and makin you think you like it .,..like makin UNION jobs at $80K EACH TO FUDGE JOBS NUMBERS ON YOUR DIME.....chumps...
@andresblazeit420 because its not going to be a benefit for a lot of doctors so family care, and preventative car are going to go down the window simply to pay for someone who doesnt work.
Because it wont be great, or cheap. It will appear to be free, but only because it raises taxes. And then we'll get the crappy care that Canadian politicians come here to avoid.
Simply because something is run with tax money does not make it bad or inefficient, in fact there are hundreds of government run programs that work very well. Also, of course health care would, and should, be paid for by taxes. According the bill, they plan on raising taxes on all tobacco and some alcohol products, I think this is a great idea (even though I know a lot of smokers) because both alcohol and tobacco are a terrible strain on the current system.
They would raise taxes for everybody. Not just for smokers or alcoholics. Everyone's taxes will go up.
I never said that the fact that it would be run with taxes made it inefficient. It's the fact that it's run by the Gov't that does that. They are, after all, the managers of Social Security. And we all know how reliable they've been running that.
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Public Schools, etc. Anything the government meddles in, they screw up. Give an example of a successful government program that isn't National Security related.
The mandate will cost a struggling mother, father, & two kids just under $16,000 THOUSAND DOLLARS EACH YEAR as "donation" to obamacare..A BRANDY NEW LOADED TOYOTA YARIS for ex: EACH YEAR--out the window...
Get ready to exodus country if you don't want to pay for those fat smelly donut eatin pigs that want you to pay for them..
Let them eat each other...They like rat food anyway...
This is just more propaganda from the corporations. Once again the right is trying to spread fear. I feel Obama should have been pushing hard for single payer right from the start. But all the right wing whores and even some Dems who have taken bribes from the healthcare ind. wouldn't allow it. So a public option is a start. And no this won't put private healthcare out of business. That's nonsenes! The majority voted Obama into office. The majority want's reform! We'll get it!! YES WE WILL!
The majority voted for change, not for a change to the republic. The only whores is the Democrats who have sold out America to their special interest (Big PHRma, Insurance companies and the Unions). You are stupid to think that this is good for America and is deficit neutral. Name one plan under government control that actually costs what it was projected to cost. Name one program that the government saves taxpayer money in. The only whores are the Democrats who cant even pass a bill w/ majority
The CBO has stated that the public option will not only be deficit neutral but it will cut the deficit over the next ten years. Yes there are Dems who are loyal to big corporations, and are holding up the process like I said in the last post. There a many government programs that bennefit taxpayers. That's why we pay taxes, so we have programs to assist us. Social security, medicare, unemployment for example. All of which were opposed by Republicans but are now mainstays in our society.
As I stated above, the CBO has never been close to their projections. NEVER. Also, the majority of those paying taxes are Republicans who have to support liberals who don't pay and expect these entitlement programs. These programs were supposed to support and protect the citizens when they became elderly, now its just welfare for everyone. Not what it was intended for. If a system is near bankrupts, what's gooing to happen when 30 million + are added? Guess that will save money as well?
No you never mentioned the CBO. And Medicare seems to run quite well. And if you think Republicans pay taxes to support liberals you're deluded. Also if you are a Republican, and you not in the top 1% financially, you are a complete MORON! You mine as well be a Jewish Nazi, or an African American KKK member. Thats how much middle class america has in common with the Rep party. You're response is typical GOP. Here's an idea try actually researching things and maybe look into higher learning.
In typical liberal fashion, you still didnt debate what was above. I guess you have fallen for the DNC talking points since you can't seem to form your own opinions. The Democratic party is the party of fat cats. Look at the top 10 ranking. 9 out of the 10 spots for richest politicians are Democrats. John Kerry is number one. Again, typical liberal since you bring up Nazi's and the race card on top of name calling. That shows you cant debate and need to educate yourself before speaking.
Medicare is bankrupt genius. Its in the red by about $35 TRILLION. By the way, how many people are in Obama's administration who didn't pay their taxes? Geithner is a huge one since he is the Treasury Sec. How many had to withdrawl their names due to not paying taxes. By the way, history will tell you that the KKK was founded by the Democratic Party. MORON!!!! I don't vote for a party, I vote for the best person because I'm a free thinker and not a simpleton follower like yourself.
For you to say that you are not a Republican is a joke. And no I wasn't bring up the race card or Nazi's as a discussion piont. They were ANALOGIES. U should look that up. The problem with medicare is medicare advantage. The portion of medicare loopholed by the GOP to allow private insurance to rip off the program. And no you're not a free thinker. Especially if you think the DEMs are the party of the wealthy. And I am not a Dem. The Dems make me sick with their weakness. And the GOP is a joke.
So once again your reading comprehension fails you. Medicare is NOT bankrupt!! Where did you get that crap?? Projections say it may run dry in 10 years but it's not bankrupt. Once again right winger, you can't just spit out lies. the info is out there to prove you don't know what you're talking about. You're right, you are a free thinker. You just think of some bogus stats and freely blurt it out. Go away dude, you're a mess, and you're the problem with the right wing.
I'm sure Barack the Butcher is fuming over the amendment to his health care control bill that prohibits him from forcing people who value life to pay for killing the unborn.
I'm equally sure that he has a 'Plan B' to get around the will of U.S. citizens. That's his daily delight. He doesn't give a damn about what we want. He's all about himself. I wonder how many hours a day he stands in front of a full-length mirror and worships himself. Chats with himself. Admires himself.
Also, I am not even going to get into a religious conversation with you. I try not to take sides. I do not believe in following a religion, nor a two party system
Name for me ONE poor person who ever started a company, employed people, or boosted the economy. Take your time and think it over. But I think before long you'll realize it never happened. It takes money, and brains, to make a business work. Obama is trying to rape the life out of our economy, tax small businesses into oblivion, and take all power into his criminal hands.
All that, and he's only a puppet. Now THAT'S audacity.
Questions, mad: what do you care if someone else becomes a milionaire, as long as you have enough? And if you don't have enough, why not? Are you lazy? Playing 'victim'? Haven't taken up your opportunities in life yet to become wealthy? They're out there, for anyone who wants to work hard and earn....erm....
Forgive me. I was speaking pre-Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of our criminal federal government. Better go sign up for food stamps and welfare. It's all you'll get from B.O.
Um, in case you haven't noticed, capitalism only increases the gap between filthy rich and dirt poor. Millionaires and corporations especially have way more money than they can ever use, yet they still want more. And they use their power to manipulate people.
WHAT DO YOU CARE IF SOMEONE ELSE BECOMES A MILLIONAIRE, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE ENOUGH??
I sure don't care. If someone has the brains and ingenuity to become rich by legal means, more power to them! This is the U.S.A., and we have freedom to do just that! Until Obama rapes our economy dry, take over all major corporations and banks, and forces people to worship him, that is.
Oh, you didn't want to talk about spiritual thing. Well, he's your god.
It's not about having enough, it is about people becoming so rich that they can manipulate people. I am not talking people in specific, but corporations. Namely Wal-Mart which has been dodging workers unions and finding ways around paying people for full time work.
And you have no right to say who my god is. Fuck you
It's about envy, mad. It's about being accused of being evil just because one is wealthy. Only thing is, Obama and his fellow felons are wealthy themselves. They have no excuse for being envious just because others have millions. Apparently, they didn't like the fact that we, the people, collectively had trillions. (Emphasis on HAD.) So the raped us economically.
One of the Rockefellers was asked once how many millions it would take to make him happy. "One more," he replied.
I never said most people are evil for being wealthy, but large corporations such as *cough* Wal-Mart certainly don't provide for needs of the people, or their employess. And great job of turning my last statement into a sexual reference. That's very mature.
WalMart provides cheap products and services that benefit almost every neighborhood their in. Look at the local economy in places that have big box Walmart stores. They certainly produces more Jobs than Obama and Biden. They provide their employees a steady paycheck with good benefits. You are probably a union supporter or SEIU member who is made that Walmart is successful because the unions are kept out.
If it's so bad at Wal-Mart, then why do so many people choose to work there? Are they dragged out of their homes in chains and then forced to stand at a cash register?
I'm no fan of big businesses (which will "sell their mother" for a buck) but at least they have competition -- I'm not forced to buy from them, or work for them. In contrast, government is the ultimate monopoly -- if they declare that thou shalt do "x", then thou hast no choice. Talk about manipulating people.
Really? Whatever Congress does, represents what 100% of the population wants? What if 50% of the population opposes it? They aren't forced into doing it anyway?
Please remember your statement the next time you're forced to comply with a law you don't like, but the law is supported by a majority of voters.
And then there are those laws which are sold to the people by lying about it. Check out today's Wall St. Journal editorial: "Confessions of an ObamaCare Backer"
Did I ever say congress represents all Americans? No. What I am getting at is that congress is a good measure against the government making rash decisions. A dictatorship will have control over everything no matter what. A large representation helps to create a fair society - not saying ours is totally fair though.
And I am not going to believe listen to anything you say about healthcare if you are going to use the term "ObamaCare".
I accept that ObamaCare isn't a good term to use. It's just a shorthand method of referring to it -- that's all I meant by it. Please replace it with Democrat Medical Industry Transformation (the best objective description I can come up with at the moment).
Re: Decisions by Government vs. Decisions by Wal-Mart, again, we have choices with decisions made by Wal-Mart. I personally don't shop there, or work there, so it matters for nothing to me what they decide. Not so for government.
They SHOULD be put out of business! They're CROOKS who've been making money off of the most vulnerable people and just want something for nothing! When you hear on the news every single day that they're denying coverage from anything from being too overweight to too underweight... or denying women coverage who have been raped... what's to stop them from denying coverage for ANYTHING?! These people who make decisions about our health care don't know a damn thing about health or medicine!
Your choice: Free stuff or Freedom. You can't have both. When the government is involved it is never free, cheap or of any quality. The government only consumes, it NEVER provides. It can't. It is a beast that has no heart for anything but power. History and facts prove it.
@ArtistaAndaluz: The public option is a good thing; why else are so many corrupt Republicans{funded by insurance corp. and drug company money} against it ?
@ArtistaAndaluz: Well, what's 'wrong' exactly{factually, that is}? Politicians taking drug corp. money? In fact, it's well known that many politicians, Republicans in particular, do in fact, take bribes, donations, etc. from various lobbying, etc. groups; the pharma and insurance industries are just two examples.
If you really believe that, then here's an idea: There are, what, about 100 million hard core Dems in America? And surely some are capable of starting and running an insurance company (if not, then how are they capable of making the US government an insurance company?). So start a new private insurance company, and run it in a non-evil way. Everyone will join it (because it will be so much better) and it will put the others out of business.
Look up the story of Ian Pearl, diagnosed with muscular dystrophy and was in a wheelchair by age 6. He was called a "dog" and a "trainwreck" by health insurance execs.
I know you don't like to hear it, but the corporations don't give a fuck about you or me. They care about the bottom line, and nothing else. Your oversimplification of the situation does nothing except illustrate your complete lack of knowledge on the subject.
Thanks for the deep and thoughtful response. I do believe it well-represents those who are supportive of government run health care.
I know it won't matter to you, but for others who might be reading along...
1) Let's say that you found a similar ugly stories in a gov't-run program. Would that then lead you to the conclusion that gov't doesn't care about you? All they care about is getting (re)elected?
2) Why not create a "caring" *private* insurance company? Why not?
"Let's say that you found a similar ugly stories in a gov't-run program"
First of all, nothing is perfect...but since you want to talk about gov't run programs, why don't you ask folks on Medicare how "government run programs" are. My grandparents were on it, and they never had one complaint...matter of fact before my grandfather died he said the whole country should have it.
Are you sure you want to hold up Medicare as your model for all of America? Do you not realize how horribly inefficient it is? How broke it's going? Even Dem politicians recognize that, thus the reason there will be massive cutbacks in Medicare. It's bankrupting America as it stands right now. And that's just for seniors.
As opposed to your holding up the model of private free market insurance? I wonder why we spend the most in the world on health care, yet our costs are skyrocketing and we're ranked 37th in the world for overall healthcare - oh, wait, those rankings were done by the evil socialist WHO so they don't count, I forgot. Not to mention doctors who have to check with insurers to get approval before treating a patient?
Where have I held up our current system as the model? I haven't. I do think that reforms are needed. But I am quite certain that government control of it is not the way to go. Government-controlled *anything* has a horrible track record. And Massachusetts' recent attempts are a good sampling of what's in store for the nation, if this is forced upon us.
Actually, people come to America from all over the world for our health care. And we export the drugs and med. tech. we develop.
Well, it's not that black and white. First of all, while people do indeed come to America for treatment, plenty of Americans also go abroad for treatment, mainly Canada, the UK, and France...all of which are ranked higher than the US by the WHO in overall health, health care system performance, and infant mortality rate, I might add.
Regarding Massachussetts, that's NOT universal healthcare. What you refer to is an individual mandate to purchase private insurance, like the current fed bill.
Check out Britain's "NICE" program, which let's you die if your expenses exceed about $22k. Or the Sept 12 Newsweek article "The Case for Killing Granny" written by a Dem.
Why do American's go elsewhere, and where did you hear that? In contrast, we know why Canadians come here: because they can't get it there, at any price.
MA: indiv. mandate is only one part of it (like the fed).
Bottom line: You want to force all Americans to do what you want them to do, even though most don't want it.
As a Canadian I beg to differ. Few if any Canadians go to the US for healthcare. The only reason to do so would be to avoid wait times which could be several weeks for an elective surgery for a non-lethal condition. I personally know no one who has ever had any trouble with the Canadian healthcare system. It gives us the freedom to choose the best care for our needs at the hospital we want, a freedom which is only available to the very wealthy in the USA.
That simply isn't true. The stories of Canadians coming to America is endless. Regardless, socialized medicine does several things:
1) Takes away liberty. If you don't like the public plan, what do you do?
2) There's no free lunch. You either raise taxes, or cut services (or both). Economics 101. The former damages the economy, the latter is bad for your health.
3) Only a tiny percentage of Americans are without any health insurance, and even they are treated in emergencies.
1) There are private healthcare facilities within Canada that give people the choice to pay for having shorter wait times. Some Canadians (although few and wealthy) do choose to go to the States as you said but most do not.
2) This is true. America has an extremely low income tax for their top income bracket of private citizens, you're not gonna loose jobs raising their taxes. Also eliminating private insurance companies will reduce waste.
3) What happens if you're uninsured and get cancer?
Check out the Wikipedia article on Canada's health care program. It's long, but provides many quotes, stats, reports, etc.. But in summary,
Wait times: seems to be a widespread complaint among Canadians, thus the political push to increase funding to reduce it. Ergo, rationing is one method for saving money (as we've been saying).
Private facilities: that's murky. Provinces impose limitations, and you still have to pay for the public plan via taxes, so you're paying twice.
Another reason that Canadians come to the U.S. for superior health care, Don--many of their best health care specialists are already here, because of the smothering effect of nationalized, government-run health care on their careers and personal finances, not to mention controlling their own lives.
The Obama administration in its entirety is a curse on our nation. This vote, tentatively scheduled for tomorrow, could decide who controls OUR lives from now on.
As as you implied, TRIR, if this passes, then it also will affect Canadians (and Europeans): They'll have no where else to go. Nor will their physicians be able to find better places to practice.
And check out the article in yesterday's New Yorker, "Some Vaguely Heretical Thoughts on Health-Care Reform" by John Cassidy. He's a liberal supporter of Obamacare, and an economics commentator. He admits that it will be more expensive, not less, and that Dem insiders know it.
Exactly right, Don. And if you are a student of the word of God, simply taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture will reveal that all these things that are happening have to occur, in order to bring about a unified world order. Then the one-world dictator who feigns peace, desires the worship of mankind, and will become the monster spoken of in Revelation 13, can reveal himself.
Obama probably is not that man of sin, but he most certainly is a type, a predecessor.
Revelation is very abstract and open to interpretation (and many have interpreted wrongly in the past...). That's not to say you're wrong, but it's not necessary to "go there" to oppose Obamacare. Atheists have every reason to oppose it, as do Democrats who care more about what's best for lowering health care costs & improving America's economy, than an ideological agenda of socialized medicine. Republicans have presented excellent market-based alternatives for lowering costs.
Bullshit, a healthcare plan is nothing close to a military state. Every advanced nation besides us has universal healthcare. The UK, Germany, Switzerland, Japan, and pretty much every other advanced nation you can name
Military state, mad? I don't believe I said anything about a military state. My first comment was about spiritual warfare. My second said nothing about our military.
National health care per Obama is NOT about health care. I doubt it's even about our economy. He's already pretty much bankrupted us for generations.
No, Obama is all about control. I don't know about these 'advanced' countries you name, but they do have one advantage over us.
These advanced countries, for one, include the UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, Japan, Canada, Norway, Taiwan, Australia - all have universal health care. We don't. And by military state, i meant you calling the Canadians "smothered" by their government. If it truly was like that, while not a military state, it would be essentially the same as one - a single power taking complete control over the masses.
"Why not create a "caring" *private* insurance company? Why not?"
What does that even mean? Do you know of any "benevolent" private insurance companies who are looking out for the common good? The whole idea behind their business is to MAKE MONEY THROUGH DENIAL OF CARE. How else do you think they generate their main source of income? What exactly would constitute a "caring" private insurance company? Besides...all of the current insurers claim they "care"
Why is this so hard to understand? A group of investors who have similar sentiments as yourself, create a new company: an insurance company. But unlike all other insurance companies, they "care". It was you who made the point that we need gov't run insurance, because the private companies don't "care". So, why not creating a "caring" insurance company? Or is only Big Government capable of "caring"? Individual Democrats can't do it?
Again - What would constitue a company that "cares"? A slogan? Policies? What? Like I said before, health insurance companies don't make money by paying out claims and covering treatment...it's really a sick game of chess if you think about it. Their job is to protect their investors, your job is to protect your loved ones.
And don't gimme this shit about going broke. When it comes to money for blowing people up, it's never a problem...but when it comes to health care...it's a big fuss
Don't ask me what constitutes "care". It was your point that uncaring insurance companies are the reason we need gov't insurance. But now what are you saying? That it's not possible to run private insurance any better than it has? That even the most generous, non-greedy liberals, couldn't do any better?
Don't take my word for it that Medicare is a money pit. Read what president Obama and leading Democrats have said. They intend massive cutbacks for Medicare.
There better be a public option in the final bill. It's the only way to seed the rightful and inevitable destruction of the satanic health insurance industry. No one has the right to commodify another man's suffering.
Wow greedy insurance companies that PAY people to look for pre-existing conditions and stupid reasons to take away people's health care when they need it most might go out of business?! This is what republicans are fighting so hard to protect?
Everyone I know of who has Medical Insurance complains of increasing premiums and decreasing coverage and outrageous denials. Medical Insurance "For Profit" is a conflict of interest. This system is broken, it needs to be replaced. This is America - we are the wealthiest & most powerful nation in the world - and we are NOT leading in taking care of our citizens. We're the only industrialized nation that ISN"T taking care of their citizens. That has to stop. Best Regards
Some statistics are dead on and there are a number of very reliable sources. A recent Harvard study puts the number of preventable US deaths from lack of insurance at 45,000 per year. That does not happen in countries with comprehensive health care for everyone. Out of 19 industrialized countries the US system is the most egregiously discriminatory toward the poor and working classes but during this downturn 10,000 people per day are losing their insurance at their most vulnerable time.
Why does nobody talk about why health care has gotten too expensive? One main reason is that instead of taxing employer given health insurance, we give the employer a tax break. This means more employer given health insurance. More free or almost free insurance means more demand for health care, since people want to take advantage of their free or partly paid for health care. This artificial demand raises prices. Tax health benefits as income, and our health care problem will be fixed.
NO! Taxing health benefits would mean health insurance for only major events, because people wouldn't have health insurance for small things from their employer, like check ups, in order to avoid income tax. This means less middle men, and people searching for cheaper care. Capitalism works.
The US health care system is rated 37th above Slovenia in overall care. 19th out of 19 of the industrialized countries in mortality. We do win one category above all other nations. We are the most expensive system in the world by almost double. That's disgusting. Worse outcomes. More money. We pay for a Mercedes and get something off the used lot with slick marketing package slapped on top. "Thrive". Right! Our health rip off system sucks.
Oh, right...anything that doesn't rank the US as number one in everything MUST be skewed and controlled by secret anti-American forces seeking to crush freedom and establish a world socialist government, right?
Provide your evidence or keep your tinfoil conspiracy theories to yourself.
Two reasons why the ranking was bad. One, it ranked equality higher than care. A country with uniformly bad care outranks a country that has great, yet uneven care. Also, it factors in life expectancy but doesn't rank infant mortality rate. Since America keeps premature birth and other infants who would normally die, we keep kids alive who later die at young ages.
Actually the US should be ranked number one in healthcare too but they aren't because the evil, hedonistic, god-hating, gay loving, anti-American Marxist WHO is planning to invade the USA and then establish a one world socialist government....I actually had a guy tell me that the other day.
What's wrong with choice. Create a Medicare for all that want to join it - a non-profit system that spreads risk over a giant pool. Or, you can continue to choose the health insurance of your employer. Let people choose.
I'd choose the new and improved expanded Medicare - my employers health care plan - sucks. We have no choice. Our employers choose the design, deductibles, co-pays - and the networks. It sucks.
Jews make up less than 2% of America. Extreme leftist Jews just 1.5%. Look who is feeding this marxist nonsense to us? The Schumers and Krugmans and Joe Kleins of the world. Placing so much power in one small group is dangerous.
my tax dollars to keep it going, cause the law states once gov jobs are in place they cant be fired, thats why there ar soo many lazy gov officials all over, take a look, city jobs... I see nothing that is about health or about care, what i see is a bureaucratic nightmare. Medicaid is broke, medicare is broke, social security is broke, and you want us to believe that a gov that cant even run cash for clunckers program is going to run 1/6th of our economy? Dont think so.
they are going through this bullshit in the UK too. and the BNP gets demonized by the labour party the same way we get it from the liberals. but theres a bright side. gordon brown is THEE most unpopular PM in history...even more unpopular than chamberlain...and will be voted out. germany has voted in a right wing govt for the first time in 50 years. and the blue dog democrats shot down the public option today
Thank God America is awakening to the realization of our country's unrelenting march toward collectivism. Our government, despite whatever they say to the contrary, envisions a socialist/fascist paradise. Study the "Agenda for a Shared Prosperty" of whom many in this administration share.
Long Live the FREEDOM rEVOLtion and restore America 1776!!!
Get a clue dipstick? I'm highly educated. For example, I know when to use You're and Your. I capitalized for you. I also know the difference between a period and a comma. Your one sentence is enough to prove to me you're incompetent. I hope you crash your Camaro and it catches fire. And when your charcoal ass arrives at the hospital they wont admit you because your coverage was dropped due to the high cost of bandages which will be needed to prevent you from getting an infection.
Stop smoking weed and lean how to write before endeavoring to debate something like economics. I agree there will be costs. For example, the drugs for your mental retardation should be covered, the surgery to correct your micro-penis should not. Private insurance put profit ahead of humanity and compassion. In the words of Gordon Gekko, "You either do it right, or you get eliminated." See ya on the Road Sam!
I didnt spell a single thing wrong... Second, heres a fact for you statists; Great Britan cut 69k patients from recieving their medication for back pain so the GOVERNMENT can save 55 million dollars to put elsewhere.... sure buddy, your less educated then you think.
Sam, Sam. Did I say anything about your spelling? I attacked your grammar. But since you brought it up.. Ststists = Statistics, Britan = Britain and Capitolism = Capitalism. My original comment was about not profiting from health insurance and you're on bailouts and capitalism. Difficulty focusing and concentrating is a sign of pot abuse. Now on to the errors... The $900 Bil. was not printed thus inflating the economy, it was borrowed. China, Singapore, the World Bank via bonds etc.
Wow big deal I have a problem typing, my job consists of getting dirty, not sitting in front of the computer my friend. The feds pumping money is still FAKE!!! Its not currated by anything, borrowed money that we have to pay back, FAKE!!! I may not be able to spell, but am a whole lot wiser when it comes to whats going on. Britan's gov "decided" the patients didnt need it, The "GOVERNMENT" made that decision, not the patient. What happened to our god given right to choice?
You said inflates the economy. It wont. Hospitals built for people from Britain and Canada? What? What does "currated" mean?? I have to hand it to you Sam, you win. You're so friggin dumb I cant even argue anymore. Remember, you started this by calling me a friggin idiot. Now you are arguing that you cant have an opinion.? Look up hipocrisy. I admire your passion. Few are willing to fight despite being repeatedly spanked! Take a shower and go to school. We'll talk again in 5 years!! Good Luck.
Let me hit you again, the feds just pumped in 900,000,000,000 dollars into the stock market. Their inflating the economy with fake money, all their doing is trying to bring the country down to blame capitolism for everything. Capitolism isnt failing, socialism is.
The UK cut of back pain medication was only for patients where the cause was not able to be determined. The drug was cortisone and is a steroidal anti-inflamatory. Inflamation, the government felt is detectable via scans and chemical analysis. Where nothing was detectable, they refused payment. They did however offer to pay for osteopathic, chiropractic and accupuncture interventions. Back pain is your counter? People are denied chemo in the US with tumors visible with the naked eye. Round 3 Sam
So I guess land of the free shouldnt be no more, more like; home of the gov decides for you. Let me ask you this, why do we have hospitals built only for people from Britan and Canada? Maybe its cause their healthcare is totaly controlled by an idiot in gov thinking he knows whats best. What ever happened to my own opinion, open your eyes you socialist marxist.
Sam, you have your camaro's stick shifter up your ass if you think you have a god given right to choice now.. News Flash!! Unless your paying for it yourself there will always be someone else making the decisions. The question is weather or not that person has a soul. All I said was that private insurers who profit billions by denying coverage should be taken out. If you disagree with that then all I can say is I hope you go sterile from testicular cancer before you have children.
so whats the difference...if we send the money to big brother or a health care insurance company? the end result is the same you are sending money in and either a beaurocrat or an accountant says yay or nay. your spliting hairs and who is to say the govt guy wont be bribed to deny you and give it to someone else? greed knows no party. and if you think otherwise you are a fool.
Really there is no difference and I said that. Unless you're paying for it yourself. My point was and still is, that the private sector put profit ahead of all else. Hitting them with a public option or even taking them out all together can only be an improvement. BTW I was talking to Sam the pothead not Mark the insecure neo-nazi. Hi I'm Mark, I saw a propaganda video on you tube. I'm not going to think for myself. Mark lets try Band Wagon.. "Suck Me" Everyones doing it!!
so they make a profit so what? all a profit means is they make SLIGHTLY more than the cost of doing business and they divide that among share holders. if the govt runs health care they dont have to make a profit and simply raise taxes to make up the difference. at least with the system as it now sits people like me who dont have and dont want health care dont have to fork over any money to help pay for a bunch of dead beat oxy contin addicts
cyberj717, you call me a pothead?? Your the athiest/socialist here. I looked at your page and your nothing but a lazy fuck who wants to push socialism becuase your not happy with your life, and dont want to work for it. So its better to blaim someone that has, then to go work for it yourself. And how is it a public option? If you dont want it, theyre going to fine you and if you dont pay your going to jail. And what happens if no one wants the gov option after its going? Then they use more of
You didn't deny smoking pot..The not having insurance fine thing is in the bill regardless of weather or not a public option is present. Whats wrong with having certain things socialized?? I like my police department, fire dept., library, post office. The post office didnt put UPS out of business. Just keeps them efficient to compete. Both of you idiots are getting banged in the ass and are too dumb to realize it. I dont "blaim" (sic) you guys. Education department is next on my list!
12,300,00 hits on google. Google led me to YouTube where I saw your comments posted. CNN "Top 10 Health insurance company profits soar 428% from 2.4 to 12.9 billion from 2001 to 2007." You're slightly an idiot. Sam.. Atheist?? Stay on point here. If people dont use it, they dont pay anything out. It's not like theyre selling cars where if no one buys we're stuck with the bill. If you dont like public insurance you go back to private, so what? At least the crazy profits will be kept in check.!!
i dont have health insurance so i dont like being told i have to have either...besides public option was shot down yesterday TWICE. the only thing that is gonna make medical bills go down is to ABOLISH THE INSTITUTION OF INSURANCE...public or private. if NO ONE had insurance like me the hospitals would be FORCED to lower their prices and be competitive...yes put the blame where it belongs ON THE HOSPITALS THEMSELVES. look at the auto industry anytime insurance is covering damage it costs more
Wow, cyberj. If you think Obama has a soul, and can run health insurance (and ultimately, our health care), you're out of your mind. The government runs NOTHING efficiently, fairly, or sensibly. The only thing Obama and company are running with any passion is our country into the ground. He hates everything our country was founded on, and is ruining it in the name of 'returning' our wealth to its rightful owners. Translated, that means retribution for things like slavery. He's a monster.
Hates everything out country was founded on? Monster? Clearly youu have issues with this that extends beyond politics. Could you be a racist? Could you be a dummy? Bet you voted for Palin? Obama is orders of magnitude better then anything we've had for decades. It's actually my fault. Start an argument regarding a dumb video you/re going to argue with dumb people..
He's the biggest liar this country has ever voted into office. Obama is a puppet of all his czars. He falls apart without his teleprompter, which Ayers keeps full of half-truths and deception. It's not conservatives' faults that you got sucked into the kenyan's lies. The information was out there. And don't give me that whining excuse that anyone who doesn't believe his bullshit is racist. LIBERALS play the race card, like you just did.
Wow, Cyber, you are a lib for sure. Everyone who does not agree with you must be stupid or a racist. Obama is a socialist plain and simple. Our founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves if they saw what he stood for. If you want socialism, why don't you just move some where where it works so well? Cuba, China, or if you really want some change, why not go hang out with your friend Chavez and leave our country alone.
I called the dummy a dummy because he was, I didnt call anyone a racist. See the question mark??? I simply stated Rightizright had anger issues that seemed seated in something other then Obama's politics. Is there something wrong with being rational and observant. You should try it. All men are created equal.. inalienable rights.. life liberty and the pursuit of happiness!! Banks and private insurers seem to have these interests in mind?? China-Cuba are Communist, not socialist.
Actually, I should have said Marxist. That would be closer to the intent of my statement. Either way, if our Republic is so flawed, you are under no obligation to stay.
This vid is a favorite on Quito
irwinchurch25 3 weeks ago
well, all politicians are liars and thieves, just obamas the worst of all
383man 4 months ago
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Fuck them all........
avionicswirenut 5 months ago
Obama is the devil!!
Rarerat 6 months ago
I know this is a great point of debate in the USA but I don't know of anywhere else where this is so. That is to say in none of the countries with public healthcare is it being debated whether to switch to private, except since the austerity measures being implemented (in Europe) are right wingers suggesting some slight forms of privatisation just to lower government costs. So it's very questionable whether private healthcare really is better.
Notyou010 7 months ago
@Notyou010
The free market system of economics is superior in ALL ways. Can you stop and take an objective look at the history of the U.S. economy, and wonder why every country in the world either models its after ours, or in envious of us economically? Open your eyes, if you're interested in the truth. The evidence is overwhelming.
theRightizright 3 months ago
@theRightizright why don't you stop and take an objective look at reality instead of holding on religiously to false hope.
Notyou010 3 months ago
@Notyou010
So you assume that I haven't looked at the things of life and eternity objectively. Wrong. I was unsaved for almost half of my life before hearing 'the other side'--the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I'd heard every worldly solution for mankind's, and my, problems before I heard God's. Guess what: God makes more sense than every unsaved man put together. What is that 'they' say these days? It was a slam dunk. A no-brainer. But I know why you think as you do, because I did once.
theRightizright 3 months ago
@theRightizright OH CHRIST. Would you read what I said! I didn't think or assume or project any opinion about religion, I was saying you were holding on to the theory of capitalism, like it was a spiritual religion instead of taking heed of the facts on the ground. Now please fuck off cos you're obviously an illiterate 5 year old.
Notyou010 3 months ago
@Notyou010
I can use proper grammar and spelling, which is more than you seem capable of. Capitalism is superior to every other system at present; and by your own admission--
" I was saying you were holding on to the theory of capitalism, like it was a spiritual religion..."
--YOU crossed over from political to the reference to religion, regardless of your intent. Judging from your posts, you're the one out of touch with reality and facts.
theRightizright 3 months ago
@theRightizright I was describing your negation and ignorance of the actual situation. If you believe healthcare institutions should waste billions by advertising for insurance, for the sake of 'free-market capitalism', instead of using that money to improve the services they deliver, I think it's absolutely valid to say: stop holding on to capitalism in this religious manner.
I stated important facts in my first comment (which you have so far ignored).
Notyou010 3 months ago
@Notyou010
The ignorance in this stream of comments is all yours. Free market economics has driven the U.S.A. to the top of the world's economy, and kept it there. The meddling of the nazi-in-chief and his criminal cohorts in insurance, manufacturing, banking, and everywhere else they try to exercise control is nothing less than treason. Capitalism works. It fixes its own problems. The market adjusts itself. Goods sell, or not. Producers compete. Consumers in. Get over yourself.
theRightizright 3 months ago
@theRightizright yeah, America really fixed itself using capitalism in the past didn't it? (sarcasm)
Notyou010 3 months ago
@Notyou010
Time to whine about the people who abuse the system, is it? I figured that was coming. Anyone who would support the socialist extremist-in-chief's policies over the free market system of economy is nothing more than a fool. Look around the world. Check out other countres. See how they're doing, and whether they have free market or some oppressive kind of economy, like communism, socialism, marxism; then recall nazism. Look at the dictatorships. Our economy is the best.
theRightizright 3 months ago
@theRightizright the Usa needed Roosevelt, the new deal and the second world war to become the world's hegemon. Capitalists destroy the economy and then they steal public money to rebuild themselves. Americans are so stupid for letting it happen. In European countries we have formed proper opposition and our standard of living is far higher. So, again, fuck off 5-year-old and learn how to have a real discussion instead of beating your chest and sucking an abstract dick.
Notyou010 3 months ago
@Notyou010
You're as big a fool as your kaiser-in-chief is a liar. You see everything his way--jackass-backwards. You've swallowed every lie, drunk all the koolaid....but wait....let's say it this way: Which country in the world has led the way economically, politically, spiritually, militarily, and practically every other way? Which country has been more generous to the world? Which country have people been beating the door down to get into for, say, more than half a century? lol.
theRightizright 3 months ago
@theRightizright Your country had dominated the world by force and become the worlds hegemon after ww2 because europe was destroyed. therefore you're economy is the strongest. Has very little to do with actual capitalism. This started as me putting forward a real argument about healthcare. Since then you've spouted rediculous propaganda myths. I won't respond again until you get serious because this is wasting my time.
Notyou010 3 months ago
@Notyou010
Fine. We'll forego the fact that the rest of the world could be as prosperous as we are, economically, if they had a free enterprise system of capitalism. You want health care? The 'death panels' are already in place here. How about in your country? Yes, selective coverage is part of any socialist 'health care'. I know friends in Canada who have waited hours to see a doctor, days to be treated, and NEVER got an operation they needed. We generally have the best health care.
theRightizright 3 months ago
Hacker studders like obama...
imaginarythings 8 months ago
President Obama NEEDS to give a thorough explanation on "Change We Can Believe In" and the book "The Audacity of Hope." Will he prove his true nature and personality? Become proactive to minimize the success of all organizations that create burdens especially the middle class. Historical fact , the Middle Class was created by Muslims and Jews allowing economic growth. I write supportive letters through the official White House Website. What will you do? Do you give a damn?
lamourlupus 8 months ago
Bankruptcy cure is taxes. One big idea that the 'noblemen' hated right before the French Revolution. The people had nothing...and the noblemen refused to fix the problem. When you figure out that your Health is the same as food, then when the riots start that demand something is done about the 'class' divisions...you will then understand "we the people' America..the FIRST SOCIAL GOVERNMENT
joraejean 8 months ago
Insurance ass-kisser propaganda. Fuck you!
TheFrankFactor 9 months ago
OMG! I wish that we had a full single-payer. It seems as though California, Massachusetts, and Vermont are on the right track.
cylixdemas 11 months ago
@cylixdemas Yes, California is on the "right" track... to bankruptcy. That's what unchecked liberalism does for you.
namordecai 9 months ago
There are still people out there that think this is "Government Health Ins." and don't know that it is really "Private FOR PROFFIT Health Ins." and it will be government enforced. The corporations are taking over the peoples government and that is Fascism.
alltvisanimated 1 year ago
the key is the END OF WHAT JACOB HACKER SAID regarding employers --- watch when he says "if they STILL OFFER IT"; anyone that has seen major headlines knows that several major corporations and employers (like McDonald's) are already saying they are going to stop coverage
joharmon86 1 year ago
THE PLAN IS LIKE FREE CANDY FOR THE LARGEST INSURERS (THE BAD ONES) AND WILL ELIMINATE SMALL PRIVATE BUSINESS INSURERS. THEIR WERE HUGE PARTIES IN K STREET FOR THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY THE NIGHT IT PASSED WHILE DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS SAID THEY WOULD BE FURIOUS OVER IT.
joharmon86 1 year ago
Do anyof these BOZOS even stop to think about the fact that the Insurance companies are the 3rd leading industry in the USA. They give about 1 in five families their income. Can you imigine the massive increase in unemployment, in home forclosures, in the need for public assistance, etc. Next, stop and think about the fact that many people worked hard to build their insurance businesses, who is the government to strip them of that just out of greed? Look at what they did to Chrysler dealers!
Pattycakessmiles 1 year ago
What the hell is this video trying to prove?Obama is lying? Dude you are barking up the wrong tree with that one. I don't think we have had a politician who has ever told the truth 100%! You know what else is not about choice, ending up in an out of network hospital even though you have your own Private Insurance! LMFAO! Think your safe? Try calling your private insurer and ask them what happens if you end up in an OUT OF NETWORK Hospital. Then get back to me and this title! LMFAO LMFAO!!!!
Slayerfan84 1 year ago
THIS GUY IS A PATHETIC JACKASS. WHAT HE DOES NOT SAY IS THAT A FAMILY OF 4 WITH AN INCOME OF 100K OR MORE WILL BE HIT WITH OBAMA PAYMENT OF MORE THEN 3 K A MONTH.... WOW THATS A HUGE INCREASE.. WE WONT HAVE FREEDOM ANYMORE
bluesuit5 1 year ago
the idea of paying money for health care is absolutely rediculous
AirborneMuffins 1 year ago
@AirborneMuffins Apparently, the idea of paying money for an education is "rediculous" too.
oxomaticman 1 year ago
The workers create the wealth. The government has NO MONEY OF ITS OWN; only what it takes in levies and fees from every pay envelope. Freedom dictates an individual citizen to have a choice as to what is best for him/herself.
BudWiser999 1 year ago
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theseeker2k5 1 year ago
The sooner we head to Single Payer the better off we will be.
It is amazing that Republicans are against small businesses and against people having more money to spend.
Actongue 1 year ago
1. REPUBLICANS ARE EVIL. Two massive tax cuts for the VERY RICH under Bush which were NOT paid for. 2. They ran up EIGHT TRILLION OF DEBT! When Clinton left office we had a surplus (ZERO DEBT). 3. They spend A TRILLION on the Iraq war TO DATE. 4. They DON'T want to give healthcare to the citizens in the RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD under a plan that IS PAID FOR. 5. Republicans ALSO used reconcilation! 6. They perpetuate FEAR MONGERING AND SCARE TACTICS. THEY ARE EVIL AND DISGUST ME!
ersatx210 1 year ago
@ersatx210: And people are waking up to the fact that, although Obama is not exactly a saint, certain forces have been railroading him from the start, among MANY other things.
MiracleMile90 1 year ago
We're "AmTracking" the most innovative and effective healthcare system the world has ever known, all because Liberals think they can have something for nothing. Chumps.
wrs840 1 year ago
hell yes!!!
lets take that step toward universal coverage.
aSheeple 1 year ago
Comment removed
aSheeple 1 year ago
Obama lies so much and so frequently, he should have been born with 3 mouths.
SPIRITOF76goeson 1 year ago
@SPIRITOF76goeson Welcome to the Political system of America!
Slayerfan84 1 year ago
The thing is the democrats had a majority and still could not accomplish anything they said they would do,then there is the issue of too many government jobs instead of creating help for private sector to get business going. Payments to gov employees (increases in wage) doesnot create new jobs ultimately causes tax increases to pay gov job wages in meantime parks close,roads not repaired,its a democratic cluster screwup
starview1 1 year ago
hey man,,you publicans & chumps wid all da money be better figgverin out how to hide it fast..da man be good at pickin yo pocket and makin you think you like it .,..like makin UNION jobs at $80K EACH TO FUDGE JOBS NUMBERS ON YOUR DIME.....chumps...
hadenufnow 2 years ago
If the public option offered by Obama's plan turns out to be great, and cheap, why wouldn't everyone switch?
andresblazeit420 2 years ago
You mean, "great and cheap" as the months if not years of waiting for rutine operations, people in the US get in weeks, we europeans "enjoy"?
Or "great and cheap" as Canada´s "win the lottery to get a family doctor appointment"?
CobraCommander 2 years ago
Having a public option would be like the USPS vs FedEx, what's so bad about that?
andresblazeit420 2 years ago
@andresblazeit420 because its not going to be a benefit for a lot of doctors so family care, and preventative car are going to go down the window simply to pay for someone who doesnt work.
Aces214214 1 year ago
@andresblazeit420
Because it wont be great, or cheap. It will appear to be free, but only because it raises taxes. And then we'll get the crappy care that Canadian politicians come here to avoid.
nlolinder 1 year ago 2
Simply because something is run with tax money does not make it bad or inefficient, in fact there are hundreds of government run programs that work very well. Also, of course health care would, and should, be paid for by taxes. According the bill, they plan on raising taxes on all tobacco and some alcohol products, I think this is a great idea (even though I know a lot of smokers) because both alcohol and tobacco are a terrible strain on the current system.
andresblazeit420 1 year ago
They would raise taxes for everybody. Not just for smokers or alcoholics. Everyone's taxes will go up.
I never said that the fact that it would be run with taxes made it inefficient. It's the fact that it's run by the Gov't that does that. They are, after all, the managers of Social Security. And we all know how reliable they've been running that.
nlolinder 1 year ago
"According the bill, they plan on raising taxes on all tobacco and some alcohol products*" The bill is online.
P.S. If social security is the best you have, you're an idiot.
andresblazeit420 1 year ago
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Public Schools, etc. Anything the government meddles in, they screw up. Give an example of a successful government program that isn't National Security related.
nlolinder 1 year ago
@nlolinder Are you kidding? Do you use the interstate ever?
fumbducks 1 year ago
Get mad Now!
The mandate will cost a struggling mother, father, & two kids just under $16,000 THOUSAND DOLLARS EACH YEAR as "donation" to obamacare..A BRANDY NEW LOADED TOYOTA YARIS for ex: EACH YEAR--out the window...
Get ready to exodus country if you don't want to pay for those fat smelly donut eatin pigs that want you to pay for them..
Let them eat each other...They like rat food anyway...
Good luck...
hadenufnow 2 years ago
"nothing changes" That IS Obama's plan and he hopes you think that's change.
Insurance companies will remain in charge. And if you don't buy their shitty policies you are in violation of federal law.
And the insurance companies love Obama's plan! More customers, same underinsurance, more profits.
samiemma 2 years ago
This is just more propaganda from the corporations. Once again the right is trying to spread fear. I feel Obama should have been pushing hard for single payer right from the start. But all the right wing whores and even some Dems who have taken bribes from the healthcare ind. wouldn't allow it. So a public option is a start. And no this won't put private healthcare out of business. That's nonsenes! The majority voted Obama into office. The majority want's reform! We'll get it!! YES WE WILL!
DeicidalTendencies 2 years ago
The majority voted for change, not for a change to the republic. The only whores is the Democrats who have sold out America to their special interest (Big PHRma, Insurance companies and the Unions). You are stupid to think that this is good for America and is deficit neutral. Name one plan under government control that actually costs what it was projected to cost. Name one program that the government saves taxpayer money in. The only whores are the Democrats who cant even pass a bill w/ majority
NCMan28025 2 years ago
The CBO has stated that the public option will not only be deficit neutral but it will cut the deficit over the next ten years. Yes there are Dems who are loyal to big corporations, and are holding up the process like I said in the last post. There a many government programs that bennefit taxpayers. That's why we pay taxes, so we have programs to assist us. Social security, medicare, unemployment for example. All of which were opposed by Republicans but are now mainstays in our society.
DeicidalTendencies 2 years ago
As I stated above, the CBO has never been close to their projections. NEVER. Also, the majority of those paying taxes are Republicans who have to support liberals who don't pay and expect these entitlement programs. These programs were supposed to support and protect the citizens when they became elderly, now its just welfare for everyone. Not what it was intended for. If a system is near bankrupts, what's gooing to happen when 30 million + are added? Guess that will save money as well?
NCMan28025 2 years ago
No you never mentioned the CBO. And Medicare seems to run quite well. And if you think Republicans pay taxes to support liberals you're deluded. Also if you are a Republican, and you not in the top 1% financially, you are a complete MORON! You mine as well be a Jewish Nazi, or an African American KKK member. Thats how much middle class america has in common with the Rep party. You're response is typical GOP. Here's an idea try actually researching things and maybe look into higher learning.
DeicidalTendencies 2 years ago
In typical liberal fashion, you still didnt debate what was above. I guess you have fallen for the DNC talking points since you can't seem to form your own opinions. The Democratic party is the party of fat cats. Look at the top 10 ranking. 9 out of the 10 spots for richest politicians are Democrats. John Kerry is number one. Again, typical liberal since you bring up Nazi's and the race card on top of name calling. That shows you cant debate and need to educate yourself before speaking.
NCMan28025 2 years ago
Medicare is bankrupt genius. Its in the red by about $35 TRILLION. By the way, how many people are in Obama's administration who didn't pay their taxes? Geithner is a huge one since he is the Treasury Sec. How many had to withdrawl their names due to not paying taxes. By the way, history will tell you that the KKK was founded by the Democratic Party. MORON!!!! I don't vote for a party, I vote for the best person because I'm a free thinker and not a simpleton follower like yourself.
NCMan28025 2 years ago
For you to say that you are not a Republican is a joke. And no I wasn't bring up the race card or Nazi's as a discussion piont. They were ANALOGIES. U should look that up. The problem with medicare is medicare advantage. The portion of medicare loopholed by the GOP to allow private insurance to rip off the program. And no you're not a free thinker. Especially if you think the DEMs are the party of the wealthy. And I am not a Dem. The Dems make me sick with their weakness. And the GOP is a joke.
DeicidalTendencies 2 years ago
So once again your reading comprehension fails you. Medicare is NOT bankrupt!! Where did you get that crap?? Projections say it may run dry in 10 years but it's not bankrupt. Once again right winger, you can't just spit out lies. the info is out there to prove you don't know what you're talking about. You're right, you are a free thinker. You just think of some bogus stats and freely blurt it out. Go away dude, you're a mess, and you're the problem with the right wing.
DeicidalTendencies 2 years ago
I'm sure Barack the Butcher is fuming over the amendment to his health care control bill that prohibits him from forcing people who value life to pay for killing the unborn.
I'm equally sure that he has a 'Plan B' to get around the will of U.S. citizens. That's his daily delight. He doesn't give a damn about what we want. He's all about himself. I wonder how many hours a day he stands in front of a full-length mirror and worships himself. Chats with himself. Admires himself.
*gag*
theRightizright 2 years ago
Also, I am not even going to get into a religious conversation with you. I try not to take sides. I do not believe in following a religion, nor a two party system
madpaintbalerx 2 years ago
One more thing, mad.
Name for me ONE poor person who ever started a company, employed people, or boosted the economy. Take your time and think it over. But I think before long you'll realize it never happened. It takes money, and brains, to make a business work. Obama is trying to rape the life out of our economy, tax small businesses into oblivion, and take all power into his criminal hands.
All that, and he's only a puppet. Now THAT'S audacity.
theRightizright 2 years ago
Suuure Capitalism works....
IF YOU'RE A CORPORATION
HomeBoyCharlotte 2 years ago
Haha I couldn't agree more. Capitalism can't work alone. It needs governmental guidence - limits.
madpaintbalerx 2 years ago
Questions, mad: what do you care if someone else becomes a milionaire, as long as you have enough? And if you don't have enough, why not? Are you lazy? Playing 'victim'? Haven't taken up your opportunities in life yet to become wealthy? They're out there, for anyone who wants to work hard and earn....erm....
Forgive me. I was speaking pre-Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of our criminal federal government. Better go sign up for food stamps and welfare. It's all you'll get from B.O.
theRightizright 2 years ago
Um, in case you haven't noticed, capitalism only increases the gap between filthy rich and dirt poor. Millionaires and corporations especially have way more money than they can ever use, yet they still want more. And they use their power to manipulate people.
madpaintbalerx 2 years ago
So typically, you dodge my question, mad.
WHAT DO YOU CARE IF SOMEONE ELSE BECOMES A MILLIONAIRE, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE ENOUGH??
I sure don't care. If someone has the brains and ingenuity to become rich by legal means, more power to them! This is the U.S.A., and we have freedom to do just that! Until Obama rapes our economy dry, take over all major corporations and banks, and forces people to worship him, that is.
Oh, you didn't want to talk about spiritual thing. Well, he's your god.
theRightizright 2 years ago
It's not about having enough, it is about people becoming so rich that they can manipulate people. I am not talking people in specific, but corporations. Namely Wal-Mart which has been dodging workers unions and finding ways around paying people for full time work.
And you have no right to say who my god is. Fuck you
madpaintbalerx 2 years ago
It's about envy, mad. It's about being accused of being evil just because one is wealthy. Only thing is, Obama and his fellow felons are wealthy themselves. They have no excuse for being envious just because others have millions. Apparently, they didn't like the fact that we, the people, collectively had trillions. (Emphasis on HAD.) So the raped us economically.
One of the Rockefellers was asked once how many millions it would take to make him happy. "One more," he replied.
theRightizright 2 years ago
I never said most people are evil for being wealthy, but large corporations such as *cough* Wal-Mart certainly don't provide for needs of the people, or their employess. And great job of turning my last statement into a sexual reference. That's very mature.
madpaintbalerx 2 years ago
WalMart provides cheap products and services that benefit almost every neighborhood their in. Look at the local economy in places that have big box Walmart stores. They certainly produces more Jobs than Obama and Biden. They provide their employees a steady paycheck with good benefits. You are probably a union supporter or SEIU member who is made that Walmart is successful because the unions are kept out.
NCMan28025 2 years ago
P.S., mad--No thanks. You're not my type.
theRightizright 2 years ago
MPB,
If it's so bad at Wal-Mart, then why do so many people choose to work there? Are they dragged out of their homes in chains and then forced to stand at a cash register?
I'm no fan of big businesses (which will "sell their mother" for a buck) but at least they have competition -- I'm not forced to buy from them, or work for them. In contrast, government is the ultimate monopoly -- if they declare that thou shalt do "x", then thou hast no choice. Talk about manipulating people.
DonTruman 2 years ago
Except our government cannot physically work that way due to representation. Congress.
RedSandStudios 2 years ago
Really? Whatever Congress does, represents what 100% of the population wants? What if 50% of the population opposes it? They aren't forced into doing it anyway?
Please remember your statement the next time you're forced to comply with a law you don't like, but the law is supported by a majority of voters.
And then there are those laws which are sold to the people by lying about it. Check out today's Wall St. Journal editorial: "Confessions of an ObamaCare Backer"
DonTruman 2 years ago
Did I ever say congress represents all Americans? No. What I am getting at is that congress is a good measure against the government making rash decisions. A dictatorship will have control over everything no matter what. A large representation helps to create a fair society - not saying ours is totally fair though.
And I am not going to believe listen to anything you say about healthcare if you are going to use the term "ObamaCare".
RedSandStudios 2 years ago
RSS,
I accept that ObamaCare isn't a good term to use. It's just a shorthand method of referring to it -- that's all I meant by it. Please replace it with Democrat Medical Industry Transformation (the best objective description I can come up with at the moment).
Re: Decisions by Government vs. Decisions by Wal-Mart, again, we have choices with decisions made by Wal-Mart. I personally don't shop there, or work there, so it matters for nothing to me what they decide. Not so for government.
DonTruman 2 years ago
They SHOULD be put out of business! They're CROOKS who've been making money off of the most vulnerable people and just want something for nothing! When you hear on the news every single day that they're denying coverage from anything from being too overweight to too underweight... or denying women coverage who have been raped... what's to stop them from denying coverage for ANYTHING?! These people who make decisions about our health care don't know a damn thing about health or medicine!
DrJulienArbor 2 years ago
Very true. I think we should point the finger at other corporations too...Anyone else thinking Wal-Mart?
madpaintbalerx 2 years ago
quote min much?
greycloud24 2 years ago
St. Louis - an "extremely low income tax for the top bracket"? WTF? Feds and state took half my income last year. *Half*.
And what do you mean by "you're not gonna loose [sic] jobs raising their taxes"? Less capital to invest means less capital invested.
kevinsutubeaccount 2 years ago
Well-said, Kevin (and ArtistaAndaluz).
And the top brackets pay most of the nation's income tax. Where does St.Louis get the idea that it's "extremely low"?
DonTruman 2 years ago
Your choice: Free stuff or Freedom. You can't have both. When the government is involved it is never free, cheap or of any quality. The government only consumes, it NEVER provides. It can't. It is a beast that has no heart for anything but power. History and facts prove it.
ArtistaAndaluz 2 years ago 4
@ArtistaAndaluz: The public option is a good thing; why else are so many corrupt Republicans{funded by insurance corp. and drug company money} against it ?
MiracleMile90 1 year ago
@MiracleMile90 wrong.
ArtistaAndaluz 1 year ago
@ArtistaAndaluz: Well, what's 'wrong' exactly{factually, that is}? Politicians taking drug corp. money? In fact, it's well known that many politicians, Republicans in particular, do in fact, take bribes, donations, etc. from various lobbying, etc. groups; the pharma and insurance industries are just two examples.
MiracleMile90 1 year ago
Wow. Insur. companies are now "Satanic."
If you really believe that, then here's an idea: There are, what, about 100 million hard core Dems in America? And surely some are capable of starting and running an insurance company (if not, then how are they capable of making the US government an insurance company?). So start a new private insurance company, and run it in a non-evil way. Everyone will join it (because it will be so much better) and it will put the others out of business.
DonTruman 2 years ago
Look up the story of Ian Pearl, diagnosed with muscular dystrophy and was in a wheelchair by age 6. He was called a "dog" and a "trainwreck" by health insurance execs.
I know you don't like to hear it, but the corporations don't give a fuck about you or me. They care about the bottom line, and nothing else. Your oversimplification of the situation does nothing except illustrate your complete lack of knowledge on the subject.
MrRoboto81 2 years ago
Mr. Robot,
Thanks for the deep and thoughtful response. I do believe it well-represents those who are supportive of government run health care.
I know it won't matter to you, but for others who might be reading along...
1) Let's say that you found a similar ugly stories in a gov't-run program. Would that then lead you to the conclusion that gov't doesn't care about you? All they care about is getting (re)elected?
2) Why not create a "caring" *private* insurance company? Why not?
DonTruman 2 years ago
"Let's say that you found a similar ugly stories in a gov't-run program"
First of all, nothing is perfect...but since you want to talk about gov't run programs, why don't you ask folks on Medicare how "government run programs" are. My grandparents were on it, and they never had one complaint...matter of fact before my grandfather died he said the whole country should have it.
MrRoboto81 2 years ago
Mr. R,
Are you sure you want to hold up Medicare as your model for all of America? Do you not realize how horribly inefficient it is? How broke it's going? Even Dem politicians recognize that, thus the reason there will be massive cutbacks in Medicare. It's bankrupting America as it stands right now. And that's just for seniors.
DonTruman 2 years ago
As opposed to your holding up the model of private free market insurance? I wonder why we spend the most in the world on health care, yet our costs are skyrocketing and we're ranked 37th in the world for overall healthcare - oh, wait, those rankings were done by the evil socialist WHO so they don't count, I forgot. Not to mention doctors who have to check with insurers to get approval before treating a patient?
MrRoboto81 2 years ago
Mr.R,
Where have I held up our current system as the model? I haven't. I do think that reforms are needed. But I am quite certain that government control of it is not the way to go. Government-controlled *anything* has a horrible track record. And Massachusetts' recent attempts are a good sampling of what's in store for the nation, if this is forced upon us.
Actually, people come to America from all over the world for our health care. And we export the drugs and med. tech. we develop.
DonTruman 2 years ago 2
Well, it's not that black and white. First of all, while people do indeed come to America for treatment, plenty of Americans also go abroad for treatment, mainly Canada, the UK, and France...all of which are ranked higher than the US by the WHO in overall health, health care system performance, and infant mortality rate, I might add.
Regarding Massachussetts, that's NOT universal healthcare. What you refer to is an individual mandate to purchase private insurance, like the current fed bill.
MrRoboto81 2 years ago
Check out Britain's "NICE" program, which let's you die if your expenses exceed about $22k. Or the Sept 12 Newsweek article "The Case for Killing Granny" written by a Dem.
Why do American's go elsewhere, and where did you hear that? In contrast, we know why Canadians come here: because they can't get it there, at any price.
MA: indiv. mandate is only one part of it (like the fed).
Bottom line: You want to force all Americans to do what you want them to do, even though most don't want it.
DonTruman 2 years ago
As a Canadian I beg to differ. Few if any Canadians go to the US for healthcare. The only reason to do so would be to avoid wait times which could be several weeks for an elective surgery for a non-lethal condition. I personally know no one who has ever had any trouble with the Canadian healthcare system. It gives us the freedom to choose the best care for our needs at the hospital we want, a freedom which is only available to the very wealthy in the USA.
stlouis8 2 years ago
St.Louis,
That simply isn't true. The stories of Canadians coming to America is endless. Regardless, socialized medicine does several things:
1) Takes away liberty. If you don't like the public plan, what do you do?
2) There's no free lunch. You either raise taxes, or cut services (or both). Economics 101. The former damages the economy, the latter is bad for your health.
3) Only a tiny percentage of Americans are without any health insurance, and even they are treated in emergencies.
DonTruman 2 years ago
1) There are private healthcare facilities within Canada that give people the choice to pay for having shorter wait times. Some Canadians (although few and wealthy) do choose to go to the States as you said but most do not.
2) This is true. America has an extremely low income tax for their top income bracket of private citizens, you're not gonna loose jobs raising their taxes. Also eliminating private insurance companies will reduce waste.
3) What happens if you're uninsured and get cancer?
stlouis8 2 years ago
St. Louis,
Check out the Wikipedia article on Canada's health care program. It's long, but provides many quotes, stats, reports, etc.. But in summary,
Wait times: seems to be a widespread complaint among Canadians, thus the political push to increase funding to reduce it. Ergo, rationing is one method for saving money (as we've been saying).
Private facilities: that's murky. Provinces impose limitations, and you still have to pay for the public plan via taxes, so you're paying twice.
DonTruman 2 years ago
Another reason that Canadians come to the U.S. for superior health care, Don--many of their best health care specialists are already here, because of the smothering effect of nationalized, government-run health care on their careers and personal finances, not to mention controlling their own lives.
The Obama administration in its entirety is a curse on our nation. This vote, tentatively scheduled for tomorrow, could decide who controls OUR lives from now on.
theRightizright 2 years ago 2
As as you implied, TRIR, if this passes, then it also will affect Canadians (and Europeans): They'll have no where else to go. Nor will their physicians be able to find better places to practice.
And check out the article in yesterday's New Yorker, "Some Vaguely Heretical Thoughts on Health-Care Reform" by John Cassidy. He's a liberal supporter of Obamacare, and an economics commentator. He admits that it will be more expensive, not less, and that Dem insiders know it.
DonTruman 2 years ago 2
Exactly right, Don. And if you are a student of the word of God, simply taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture will reveal that all these things that are happening have to occur, in order to bring about a unified world order. Then the one-world dictator who feigns peace, desires the worship of mankind, and will become the monster spoken of in Revelation 13, can reveal himself.
Obama probably is not that man of sin, but he most certainly is a type, a predecessor.
theRightizright 2 years ago
Revelation is very abstract and open to interpretation (and many have interpreted wrongly in the past...). That's not to say you're wrong, but it's not necessary to "go there" to oppose Obamacare. Atheists have every reason to oppose it, as do Democrats who care more about what's best for lowering health care costs & improving America's economy, than an ideological agenda of socialized medicine. Republicans have presented excellent market-based alternatives for lowering costs.
DonTruman 2 years ago
Bullshit, a healthcare plan is nothing close to a military state. Every advanced nation besides us has universal healthcare. The UK, Germany, Switzerland, Japan, and pretty much every other advanced nation you can name
madpaintbalerx 2 years ago
Military state, mad? I don't believe I said anything about a military state. My first comment was about spiritual warfare. My second said nothing about our military.
National health care per Obama is NOT about health care. I doubt it's even about our economy. He's already pretty much bankrupted us for generations.
No, Obama is all about control. I don't know about these 'advanced' countries you name, but they do have one advantage over us.
They're not in Obama's crosshairs.
theRightizright 2 years ago
These advanced countries, for one, include the UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, Japan, Canada, Norway, Taiwan, Australia - all have universal health care. We don't. And by military state, i meant you calling the Canadians "smothered" by their government. If it truly was like that, while not a military state, it would be essentially the same as one - a single power taking complete control over the masses.
madpaintbalerx 2 years ago
(contd.)
"Why not create a "caring" *private* insurance company? Why not?"
What does that even mean? Do you know of any "benevolent" private insurance companies who are looking out for the common good? The whole idea behind their business is to MAKE MONEY THROUGH DENIAL OF CARE. How else do you think they generate their main source of income? What exactly would constitute a "caring" private insurance company? Besides...all of the current insurers claim they "care"
MrRoboto81 2 years ago
Mr. R,
Why is this so hard to understand? A group of investors who have similar sentiments as yourself, create a new company: an insurance company. But unlike all other insurance companies, they "care". It was you who made the point that we need gov't run insurance, because the private companies don't "care". So, why not creating a "caring" insurance company? Or is only Big Government capable of "caring"? Individual Democrats can't do it?
DonTruman 2 years ago
Again - What would constitue a company that "cares"? A slogan? Policies? What? Like I said before, health insurance companies don't make money by paying out claims and covering treatment...it's really a sick game of chess if you think about it. Their job is to protect their investors, your job is to protect your loved ones.
And don't gimme this shit about going broke. When it comes to money for blowing people up, it's never a problem...but when it comes to health care...it's a big fuss
MrRoboto81 2 years ago
Don't ask me what constitutes "care". It was your point that uncaring insurance companies are the reason we need gov't insurance. But now what are you saying? That it's not possible to run private insurance any better than it has? That even the most generous, non-greedy liberals, couldn't do any better?
Don't take my word for it that Medicare is a money pit. Read what president Obama and leading Democrats have said. They intend massive cutbacks for Medicare.
DonTruman 2 years ago
There better be a public option in the final bill. It's the only way to seed the rightful and inevitable destruction of the satanic health insurance industry. No one has the right to commodify another man's suffering.
robgoren 2 years ago
Wow greedy insurance companies that PAY people to look for pre-existing conditions and stupid reasons to take away people's health care when they need it most might go out of business?! This is what republicans are fighting so hard to protect?
bartzkunt 2 years ago
The Christain Public Option...either you obey God in caring for the least amongst us, or you are defying God.
drvitore 2 years ago
Everyone I know of who has Medical Insurance complains of increasing premiums and decreasing coverage and outrageous denials. Medical Insurance "For Profit" is a conflict of interest. This system is broken, it needs to be replaced. This is America - we are the wealthiest & most powerful nation in the world - and we are NOT leading in taking care of our citizens. We're the only industrialized nation that ISN"T taking care of their citizens. That has to stop. Best Regards
TheDavidTheGuru 2 years ago
Why does every act as if our health care is free market? Health care is one of the most regulated and subsidized industries in america.
whitesox889 2 years ago 2
Some statistics are dead on and there are a number of very reliable sources. A recent Harvard study puts the number of preventable US deaths from lack of insurance at 45,000 per year. That does not happen in countries with comprehensive health care for everyone. Out of 19 industrialized countries the US system is the most egregiously discriminatory toward the poor and working classes but during this downturn 10,000 people per day are losing their insurance at their most vulnerable time.
Davidmeimers 2 years ago
Why does nobody talk about why health care has gotten too expensive? One main reason is that instead of taxing employer given health insurance, we give the employer a tax break. This means more employer given health insurance. More free or almost free insurance means more demand for health care, since people want to take advantage of their free or partly paid for health care. This artificial demand raises prices. Tax health benefits as income, and our health care problem will be fixed.
whitesox889 2 years ago
Tax health benefits! Then the premiums would go up even more, how dumb!
Stacela 2 years ago
NO! Taxing health benefits would mean health insurance for only major events, because people wouldn't have health insurance for small things from their employer, like check ups, in order to avoid income tax. This means less middle men, and people searching for cheaper care. Capitalism works.
whitesox889 2 years ago
The US health care system is rated 37th above Slovenia in overall care. 19th out of 19 of the industrialized countries in mortality. We do win one category above all other nations. We are the most expensive system in the world by almost double. That's disgusting. Worse outcomes. More money. We pay for a Mercedes and get something off the used lot with slick marketing package slapped on top. "Thrive". Right! Our health rip off system sucks.
Davidmeimers 2 years ago
You do realize that that rating system was very bad right?
whitesox889 2 years ago
Oh, right...anything that doesn't rank the US as number one in everything MUST be skewed and controlled by secret anti-American forces seeking to crush freedom and establish a world socialist government, right?
Provide your evidence or keep your tinfoil conspiracy theories to yourself.
MrRoboto81 2 years ago
Two reasons why the ranking was bad. One, it ranked equality higher than care. A country with uniformly bad care outranks a country that has great, yet uneven care. Also, it factors in life expectancy but doesn't rank infant mortality rate. Since America keeps premature birth and other infants who would normally die, we keep kids alive who later die at young ages.
whitesox889 2 years ago
Then I wonder why the US ranks poorly in terms of infant mortality as well?
MrRoboto81 2 years ago
We're also the best at bombing other countries...nobody will ever take that away from good ol' US of A
MrRoboto81 2 years ago
Something to be proud of (sarcasm). A militaristic state. Nice.
Davidmeimers 2 years ago
Actually the US should be ranked number one in healthcare too but they aren't because the evil, hedonistic, god-hating, gay loving, anti-American Marxist WHO is planning to invade the USA and then establish a one world socialist government....I actually had a guy tell me that the other day.
MrRoboto81 2 years ago
Grab a life jacket... You're way off the deep-end
JSparkleZ2 2 years ago
What? Why do you say that?
MrRoboto81 2 years ago
What's wrong with choice. Create a Medicare for all that want to join it - a non-profit system that spreads risk over a giant pool. Or, you can continue to choose the health insurance of your employer. Let people choose.
I'd choose the new and improved expanded Medicare - my employers health care plan - sucks. We have no choice. Our employers choose the design, deductibles, co-pays - and the networks. It sucks.
Davidmeimers 2 years ago
Finally.. my prayers have been answered.. Dave.. read the hell I've been going through with these idiots..
Cyberj717 2 years ago
Jews make up less than 2% of America. Extreme leftist Jews just 1.5%. Look who is feeding this marxist nonsense to us? The Schumers and Krugmans and Joe Kleins of the world. Placing so much power in one small group is dangerous.
dencal26 2 years ago
long live the zionist state DEATH TO ISLAM DEATH TO SHARIA LAW
markbotv3 2 years ago
my tax dollars to keep it going, cause the law states once gov jobs are in place they cant be fired, thats why there ar soo many lazy gov officials all over, take a look, city jobs... I see nothing that is about health or about care, what i see is a bureaucratic nightmare. Medicaid is broke, medicare is broke, social security is broke, and you want us to believe that a gov that cant even run cash for clunckers program is going to run 1/6th of our economy? Dont think so.
camarosam 2 years ago
they are going through this bullshit in the UK too. and the BNP gets demonized by the labour party the same way we get it from the liberals. but theres a bright side. gordon brown is THEE most unpopular PM in history...even more unpopular than chamberlain...and will be voted out. germany has voted in a right wing govt for the first time in 50 years. and the blue dog democrats shot down the public option today
markbotv3 2 years ago
Thank God America is awakening to the realization of our country's unrelenting march toward collectivism. Our government, despite whatever they say to the contrary, envisions a socialist/fascist paradise. Study the "Agenda for a Shared Prosperty" of whom many in this administration share.
Long Live the FREEDOM rEVOLtion and restore America 1776!!!
libertasetivstitia 2 years ago
Whats wrong with eliminating private insurance. What did they profit 4 billion + dollars? Healthcare should not be profitable.
Cyberj717 2 years ago
your a fuckin idiot, go back to school and learn simple economics.
camarosam 2 years ago
Get a clue dipstick? I'm highly educated. For example, I know when to use You're and Your. I capitalized for you. I also know the difference between a period and a comma. Your one sentence is enough to prove to me you're incompetent. I hope you crash your Camaro and it catches fire. And when your charcoal ass arrives at the hospital they wont admit you because your coverage was dropped due to the high cost of bandages which will be needed to prevent you from getting an infection.
Cyberj717 2 years ago
Stop smoking weed and lean how to write before endeavoring to debate something like economics. I agree there will be costs. For example, the drugs for your mental retardation should be covered, the surgery to correct your micro-penis should not. Private insurance put profit ahead of humanity and compassion. In the words of Gordon Gekko, "You either do it right, or you get eliminated." See ya on the Road Sam!
Cyberj717 2 years ago
I didnt spell a single thing wrong... Second, heres a fact for you statists; Great Britan cut 69k patients from recieving their medication for back pain so the GOVERNMENT can save 55 million dollars to put elsewhere.... sure buddy, your less educated then you think.
camarosam 2 years ago
Sam, Sam. Did I say anything about your spelling? I attacked your grammar. But since you brought it up.. Ststists = Statistics, Britan = Britain and Capitolism = Capitalism. My original comment was about not profiting from health insurance and you're on bailouts and capitalism. Difficulty focusing and concentrating is a sign of pot abuse. Now on to the errors... The $900 Bil. was not printed thus inflating the economy, it was borrowed. China, Singapore, the World Bank via bonds etc.
Cyberj717 2 years ago
Wow big deal I have a problem typing, my job consists of getting dirty, not sitting in front of the computer my friend. The feds pumping money is still FAKE!!! Its not currated by anything, borrowed money that we have to pay back, FAKE!!! I may not be able to spell, but am a whole lot wiser when it comes to whats going on. Britan's gov "decided" the patients didnt need it, The "GOVERNMENT" made that decision, not the patient. What happened to our god given right to choice?
camarosam 2 years ago
You said inflates the economy. It wont. Hospitals built for people from Britain and Canada? What? What does "currated" mean?? I have to hand it to you Sam, you win. You're so friggin dumb I cant even argue anymore. Remember, you started this by calling me a friggin idiot. Now you are arguing that you cant have an opinion.? Look up hipocrisy. I admire your passion. Few are willing to fight despite being repeatedly spanked! Take a shower and go to school. We'll talk again in 5 years!! Good Luck.
Cyberj717 2 years ago
Let me hit you again, the feds just pumped in 900,000,000,000 dollars into the stock market. Their inflating the economy with fake money, all their doing is trying to bring the country down to blame capitolism for everything. Capitolism isnt failing, socialism is.
camarosam 2 years ago 2
The UK cut of back pain medication was only for patients where the cause was not able to be determined. The drug was cortisone and is a steroidal anti-inflamatory. Inflamation, the government felt is detectable via scans and chemical analysis. Where nothing was detectable, they refused payment. They did however offer to pay for osteopathic, chiropractic and accupuncture interventions. Back pain is your counter? People are denied chemo in the US with tumors visible with the naked eye. Round 3 Sam
Cyberj717 2 years ago
So I guess land of the free shouldnt be no more, more like; home of the gov decides for you. Let me ask you this, why do we have hospitals built only for people from Britan and Canada? Maybe its cause their healthcare is totaly controlled by an idiot in gov thinking he knows whats best. What ever happened to my own opinion, open your eyes you socialist marxist.
camarosam 2 years ago
Sam, you have your camaro's stick shifter up your ass if you think you have a god given right to choice now.. News Flash!! Unless your paying for it yourself there will always be someone else making the decisions. The question is weather or not that person has a soul. All I said was that private insurers who profit billions by denying coverage should be taken out. If you disagree with that then all I can say is I hope you go sterile from testicular cancer before you have children.
Cyberj717 2 years ago
so whats the difference...if we send the money to big brother or a health care insurance company? the end result is the same you are sending money in and either a beaurocrat or an accountant says yay or nay. your spliting hairs and who is to say the govt guy wont be bribed to deny you and give it to someone else? greed knows no party. and if you think otherwise you are a fool.
markbotv3 2 years ago
Really there is no difference and I said that. Unless you're paying for it yourself. My point was and still is, that the private sector put profit ahead of all else. Hitting them with a public option or even taking them out all together can only be an improvement. BTW I was talking to Sam the pothead not Mark the insecure neo-nazi. Hi I'm Mark, I saw a propaganda video on you tube. I'm not going to think for myself. Mark lets try Band Wagon.. "Suck Me" Everyones doing it!!
Cyberj717 2 years ago
so they make a profit so what? all a profit means is they make SLIGHTLY more than the cost of doing business and they divide that among share holders. if the govt runs health care they dont have to make a profit and simply raise taxes to make up the difference. at least with the system as it now sits people like me who dont have and dont want health care dont have to fork over any money to help pay for a bunch of dead beat oxy contin addicts
markbotv3 2 years ago
cyberj717, you call me a pothead?? Your the athiest/socialist here. I looked at your page and your nothing but a lazy fuck who wants to push socialism becuase your not happy with your life, and dont want to work for it. So its better to blaim someone that has, then to go work for it yourself. And how is it a public option? If you dont want it, theyre going to fine you and if you dont pay your going to jail. And what happens if no one wants the gov option after its going? Then they use more of
camarosam 2 years ago
You didn't deny smoking pot..The not having insurance fine thing is in the bill regardless of weather or not a public option is present. Whats wrong with having certain things socialized?? I like my police department, fire dept., library, post office. The post office didnt put UPS out of business. Just keeps them efficient to compete. Both of you idiots are getting banged in the ass and are too dumb to realize it. I dont "blaim" (sic) you guys. Education department is next on my list!
Cyberj717 2 years ago
btw i said "google" you looked it up on youtube huh? lol moron cant even follow a simple instruction.
markbotv3 2 years ago
12,300,00 hits on google. Google led me to YouTube where I saw your comments posted. CNN "Top 10 Health insurance company profits soar 428% from 2.4 to 12.9 billion from 2001 to 2007." You're slightly an idiot. Sam.. Atheist?? Stay on point here. If people dont use it, they dont pay anything out. It's not like theyre selling cars where if no one buys we're stuck with the bill. If you dont like public insurance you go back to private, so what? At least the crazy profits will be kept in check.!!
Cyberj717 2 years ago
i dont have health insurance so i dont like being told i have to have either...besides public option was shot down yesterday TWICE. the only thing that is gonna make medical bills go down is to ABOLISH THE INSTITUTION OF INSURANCE...public or private. if NO ONE had insurance like me the hospitals would be FORCED to lower their prices and be competitive...yes put the blame where it belongs ON THE HOSPITALS THEMSELVES. look at the auto industry anytime insurance is covering damage it costs more
markbotv3 2 years ago
Wow, cyberj. If you think Obama has a soul, and can run health insurance (and ultimately, our health care), you're out of your mind. The government runs NOTHING efficiently, fairly, or sensibly. The only thing Obama and company are running with any passion is our country into the ground. He hates everything our country was founded on, and is ruining it in the name of 'returning' our wealth to its rightful owners. Translated, that means retribution for things like slavery. He's a monster.
theRightizright 2 years ago
Hates everything out country was founded on? Monster? Clearly youu have issues with this that extends beyond politics. Could you be a racist? Could you be a dummy? Bet you voted for Palin? Obama is orders of magnitude better then anything we've had for decades. It's actually my fault. Start an argument regarding a dumb video you/re going to argue with dumb people..
Cyberj717 2 years ago
He's the biggest liar this country has ever voted into office. Obama is a puppet of all his czars. He falls apart without his teleprompter, which Ayers keeps full of half-truths and deception. It's not conservatives' faults that you got sucked into the kenyan's lies. The information was out there. And don't give me that whining excuse that anyone who doesn't believe his bullshit is racist. LIBERALS play the race card, like you just did.
(Sarah Palin--#1 book BEFORE it went to print.)
theRightizright 2 years ago
Wow, Cyber, you are a lib for sure. Everyone who does not agree with you must be stupid or a racist. Obama is a socialist plain and simple. Our founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves if they saw what he stood for. If you want socialism, why don't you just move some where where it works so well? Cuba, China, or if you really want some change, why not go hang out with your friend Chavez and leave our country alone.
deadlymantisfu 2 years ago
I called the dummy a dummy because he was, I didnt call anyone a racist. See the question mark??? I simply stated Rightizright had anger issues that seemed seated in something other then Obama's politics. Is there something wrong with being rational and observant. You should try it. All men are created equal.. inalienable rights.. life liberty and the pursuit of happiness!! Banks and private insurers seem to have these interests in mind?? China-Cuba are Communist, not socialist.
Cyberj717 2 years ago
Actually, I should have said Marxist. That would be closer to the intent of my statement. Either way, if our Republic is so flawed, you are under no obligation to stay.
deadlymantisfu 2 years ago
Not one person here has commented with anything intelligent or on point.. NO ONE..
Cyberj717 2 years ago