For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." According 2 your OWN false teaching u would be DISQUALIFIED from the kingdom if it werent the work of Christ on the cross. You dont seem 2agree w/ Matt5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall BREAK ONE of these least commandments, AND shall TEACH men so, he shall be called the LEAST in the KINGDOM of HEAVEN: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. EXPLAIN.
@Faithful1223 Ok. 1) In context the passage is teaching that the we are all equal in God's eyes. We are not to be a respecter of persons according to wealth, clothing, etc. This is not teaching concerning a sin unto death. This is a "we all are guilty" lesson. Catch the next verse after the one you quoted. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. This is not about (cont)
@Faithful1223 (cont1) loss of salvation or turning from God but is about that we all are guilty before God as all have sinned and none need to be a respecter of persons. Let me ask this we will use a fornicator as an example. Two people living in sin. Do you say they can be heaven bound in that current state?
This verse answers UR video PERFECTLY as2 why & I quote"professing christians" who "turn" "lose their salvation". THEY WERE NEVER CHRISTIANS IN THE FIRST PLACE according2 the apostle 1John 2:19"They went out from us, but they WERE NOT of us;for IF they had been of us, they would NO DOUBT have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made MANIFEST that they were NOT ALL OF US." Wow!! End of discussion. It's not the sinning that caused lost of salvation,they werent truly BELIEVERS.
@Faithful1223 dude on the video don't know whats he's talking about. how clearer does "we are saved by grace through faith, not of works" can be? of course drunkards, fornicators etc. will not inherit the Kingdom, unless they believe and trust in the Lord they will. When becoming born again, that does not mean we are going to seize from sin. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 john 1:8
@BornAgain771 The video is not complicated nor hard to understand. Read 2nd Peter 2:20-22. The simple truth is that a tree is known by it's fruit. People that are saved do not do certain things. Just because we are to live a certain way as Christians does not mean that I am interjecting works unto salvation. If once saved always saved please tell me about those that are saved and turn back to adultery, fornicating, etc. They are lost.
@mtzion211 Thats what you call a back sliding Christian. You are still implying good works or not sinning to save you. when salvation is simply by grace through faith. tell how do people got to work for something that was a free gift? Christians that believe and turn back to adultery God chastise them discipline. He does not take away their place in the kingdom. Show me a verse that says you can lose your salvation if you don't produce good works?
@BornAgain771 ok...First, it is not by works that we are saved. No one ever stated otherwise. Second, the Bible states that if a man say I know him and does not keep His commandments then that man is a liar. (I John 2:4) Point is this. You cannot do certain things and call yourself a Christian.
@mtzion211 I Feel You Are Looking For Answers. Go Check Out My Videos It Explains Everything You Are Looking For. Do You Sin? Do You Follow The Law To The Tee?
@BornAgain771 I am always looking for answers concerning truth but not outright lies about eternal security. No offense but eternal security is a lie from the pit.
@mtzion211 Read Carefully, "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?" John 6:28 Now Read Verse 29 Carefully "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." DID YOU READ THAT, THE WORK OF IS FOR US TO BELIEVE.
@BornAgain771 The devils also believe. James 2:19. If you truly believe you will change and depart from your sin. Remember there is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death. Most do not even try to explain that. They just say that we all sin.
@mtzion211 God's Knows The Heart Of Man,You Don't. So Are You Calling Jesus A Liar When HE Said " THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN ME SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE."
@mtzion211 You Said "Those that believe do not commit sins unto death or they will lose their salvation." Then You Got The Nerve To Say It's Not By Work. My Friend I See You On Are Confused On This Subject. I'm Proving To You On My Comments With Bible Scriptures That You Are Wrong. One Minute You Say Its Faith Alone, Then You Say We must Produce Good Fruit. It's Not " MUST" It Is We "SHOULD" Because We Are Saved Thats Where You Are confused
@mtzion211 John is not speaking about the unpardonable sin at all. Isaiah 1:18 makes clear that anyone can be forgiven if they so desire it... "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." The only unpardonable sin is rejecting Jesus Christ, i.e., refusing to come to God the Father through God the Son. 1 John 2:22,23 plainly states this Biblical truth.
@mtzion211 Of Course The Devil Also Believes And Tremble. God Know's Who REally Trust And Believe On Jesus To Save Them. "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:30-31 He Answered Simply With "BELIEVE" To Be Saved Thats It Point Blank Period
@mtzion211 If i or any other have to work for the free gift of salvation, then it was never a gift. 2 Peter 2:20-21 "escaped the pollutions of the world through the KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVIOR" he is talking about people who profess to be christians first of all, it DOES NOT SAY those that recieved Jesus as savior once again entangled themselves, but it does say those "THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE" You are twisting scripture, you are leaning to your own understanding and thats a no no.
@BornAgain771 2nd Peter 2:20-22 states as the sow that was washed returns to the mire. The passage also states that they have"escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of Lord and Savior Jesus Christ they are again entangled. These people have escaped the pollutions of the world. These people have been untangled. The passage is clear that these are saved people.
@mtzion211 Obviously, this Scripture taken by itself can be interpreted to mean multiple things. The only safe method to interpret this Scripture is by cross-referencing it with other Scriptures. This is why Jesus commanded us to SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES in John 5:39. I believe the context is clearly speaking about a person who has heard the Gospel, attended a church, played the religious game for awhile; but then went back into the sinful world.
@BornAgain771 Yes we must look at all scripture...1) A tree is known by it's fruit....a good tree cannot produce evil fruit and an evil tree cannot produce good fruit. 2) If a man say I know Him and does not keep His commandments then that man is a liar. 3) A person's can be taken out of the book of life, end of Revelation. There are more especially in the OT like God stating that a person's good will not be remembered if they turn and that their evil will not be remembered if they do good.
@mtzion211 YOU ARE LEANING TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING. YOU ARE FALLING FROM GOD'S GRACE. YOU ARE TRYING TO ESTABLISH SALVATION THROUGH YOUR GOOD WORKS, YOU ARE GOING TO FIND YOURSELF IN THE LAKE OF FIRE IF YOU DON'T CORRECT YOURSELF. YOU ARE GOING TO THE OLD TESTAMENT I AM A GENTILE LIKE YOU, NOT A JEW. READ THE BOOK OF GALATIANS.
@mtzion211 READ THIS VERSE VERY CLOSE, "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." ROMANS 10:3
@mtzion211 2 Peter 2:20-21 Does Not SAY THOSE WHO RECIEVED JESUS AS SAVIOR. IT'S TALKING ABOUT THOSE THAT RECIEVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.
@mtzion211 IF 2 Peter 2:20-22 are speaking about believers, then it wouldn't make any sense, because it require that a born-again believer go through the process of being "UNBORN." That is impossible. Jesus NEVER said anything about being born again and again and again. No, rather, the spiritual birth occurs once, just as the physical birth occurs only once. Again, if these Scriptures apply to the saved, then where does the gift of God come into play?
@BornAgain771 Salvation is a gift from God, this is true. We all have sinned and come short. Now just because it is a gift does not mean that we can live anyway we want. If we love Him we will keep His commandments. Everyone wants to make something straight forward to be complicated. That is what happens when we stop believing that a tree is known by it's fruit. People say, "I am a good tree, I am saved" meanwhile the fruit is bad. this is not possible.
@mtzion211 Exactly if we "LOVE HIM WE WILL KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS" IT DOES NOT SAY "IF WE LOVE HIM WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS TO BE SAVED." ANY CHRISTIAN THAT DOES BREAK GOD COMMANDMENTS HE WILL DISCIPLINE NOT FORSAKE THEM. "MR. I DON'T SIN"
@BornAgain771 Ok...this conversation is basically over. Again, no one said that we keep His commandments to be saved. We cannot work or keep commandments to be saved. It is a free gift. That does not mean that a Christian earns their salvation because they keep His commandments. It means they are saved and love Him. Those that claim to know Him while doing evil simply do not know Him. I do not care if you think they are backsliding or never were saved. They can't be saved currently.
@mtzion211 You said "please tell me about those that are saved and turn back to adultery, fornicating, etc." Ok Read 1 Corin 5:1-5 After You Read The First 4 Verses Carefully Read Verse 5 "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." Obviously you are not reading, because have you been reading you would of known this. you have to do less teaching and more studying.
@BornAgain771 First, insulting me about reading my Bible is not Christian. Second, I have been studying for 25 years....pretty heavy at most times. Nevertheless, studying alone does not bring the truth as there are many studied people that are wrong. I know that you think that I am one of them. There is no way around the fact that the Bible states that people that do such things will NOT inherit the kingdom of heaven. This is simple to understand until we complicate it.
@mtzion211 all the knowledge in the world you claim you have, won't save you. you think you wise look what the Lord says about professing christians who claim to be wise. "Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise." 1 Corin 3:18 "Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!" isaiah 5:21 and many more
@BornAgain771 Sir...this is not about me being wise...I am nothing. This is about the truth and worse yet the truth that is twisted by many that believe in eternal security. People can turn to God and people can turn away from God. It is their choice to follow Him or not. Whatever we do please do not try to convince me that drunkards, fornicators, liars, etc. are currently saved. They are lost.
@mtzion211 You The One That Claim To Have 25 Years Of Studying The Bible, Did You Not? So You Were Reffering That You Were Wise Because The 25 Years YouSpent On Reading. Stop Trying To Play Mind Games.
@BornAgain771 I pointed that out because of your insults regarding how I need to read the Bible. I also pointed out that study alone does not bring truth or everyone would be in agreement. This conversation is over. You do not have a heart to try to understand. God bless you in the truth of His Word. I will not reply anymore to you as this is now fruitless. I must move on to those that would hear the truth.
@mtzion211 YOU SAID "I also pointed out that study alone does not bring truth or everyone would be in agreement." I See Many That Comment On Your Video Go Against Your False Teachings. So That Must Be Telling Me Something About You.
@BornAgain771 I am in good company then if people are going agains me for my "false teachings". I remember one they hung on the cross for "false teachings". If truth brought popularity I guess Jesus would of had more followers. This is bad ground to stand on with this comment.
@mtzion211 To You It's Bad Ground, To Me I See Me And My Fellow Brothers And Sister Are On One Accord Like The Bible Say We Should. You Actually Are Not Answering None Of My Questions Why Is The "Mr. I Don't Sin" No I got a better one "Mr. Good Fruits To be Saved"
@BornAgain771 I never stated I don't sin....where did I say that. I do not commit sins unto death and if I did, I would be dead (spiritually). It is not good fruits to be saved....it is good fruits because I am saved. How many times do I have to say this?
@mtzion211 LYING IS A SIN UNTO DEATH. ALL LIARS GO TO THE LAKE OF FIRE. [REVELATIONS] NOT ONE LIE IS ALLOWED IN HEAVEN. SO I GUESS YOU ARE GOING TO HELL THEN BECAUSE IF YOU TELL ME THAT YOU HAVENT LIED ONCE SINCE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, GUESS WHAT? YOU JUST LIED. SO EXPLAIN YOURSELF OUT OF THAT ONE.
@Faithful1223 I cannot believe that this is that difficult to understand. I never stated that I have never sinned. Fact is though, Christians do not commit sins unto death. No I do not lie, I do not commit adultery, I do not murder, I am not a drunkard. Again, whew, if you love Him, you will keep His commandments. What sins do you commit? Do you lie? Do you murder? Do you steal? Are not these choices that you make daily? Quit twisting what is being said.
@mtzion211 Pride&self righteousness are UR sins. The ones that lead 2satan's down fall. Also disobedience b/c Ur a liar if U boast that U OBEY GOD EVERY SINGLE DAY & perfectly. Paul sp/ about his struggle in the flesh. Maybe God should have chosen YOU instead of Paul the apostle, since Ur "little sins"are no big deal. Paul DISOBEYED God AFTER being saved. Didnt Peter sin &Paul rebuked him publically? NO SIN ENTERS HEAVEN. Neither big nor small. 1 John 1:8-9 /2:1-2 to whom is Jesus referring to?
@Faithful1223 6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. IT IS HARD TO ADD TO THIS (cont)
@mtzion211 (cont) Notice the passage is speaking mostly of walking in darkness and saying we have fellowship with him. If we walk in the light 1) we have fellowship 2) and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. Verse 8-9 as you refer to speaks of us all needing Christ and having committed sin, not current sin. Even if you believe that this passage pertains to current sin in the Christians' life it would be referring to sins not unto death.
@BornAgain771 He doesnt sin AS BAD AS YOU DO..ha lol!..thats the point this gentlemen is trying 2 convince us of. See he hasnt sinned ONE sin that was "realllly bad"..lol..since he got saved. But he saying he's sorry is enuff for GOd to forgive & be merciful 2 HIM but WOE 2 his fellow bro/sis that may be caught up or downtrodden by a drug or alcohol addiction. They def ARE goin 2hell accord 2him. No MERCY/restoring 4them?Im glad Jesus died 4 ME bc like Paul said I have NO confidence in my flesh
@Faithful1223 Now surely God would convince you that it is wrong to mock me. You should apologize but that is up to you. If either of you commit sins unto death then you are right....I do not sin as bad as you. Please explain to me the sin unto death and sin not unto death. Can you? Please show me a liar, thief, murderer, that has not repented and still is saved! Can you?
@mtzion211 I didnt mock you I merely repeated what you've been trying 2 convince folks of wh/ I find facetious. That your sins you're currently committing arent "that bad". I clearly told you that lying is a SIN that will take you 2the lake of fire if ONE is NOT a christian but if you ARE U have an advocate with the Father, Jesus, our high priest, who forgives ALL sins, past, present AND future. A Christians sin whether of omission or commission are COVERED under the blood of Jesus. contd-->
@Faithful1223 A sin not unto death would be WORRYING but I am sure if you ask your family members if the ONLY sinning U do is worry I think they'll definately disagree. You cant see your own arrogance, pride & lack of knowledge of the scriptures. I was once under the lordship salvation gospel until the Holy Spirit corrected me w/scripture. Nothing wrong w/ being mistaken, wh/ happens 2 all but U deliberately ignored clear biblical verses of REMAINING saved even after a CHRISTIAN sins. contd
@Faithful1223 Ok...a sin not unto death is worrying...what is a sin unto death? So if worrying is not too bad a sin, and is not unto death (obviously spiritual death) what again would be a sin unto death. Please listen to the truth. Those sins unto death would be sins of direct and utter disobedience. Many of them are named in the NT which clearly states that those that do such things WILL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Now the Bible also states that such were some of you, but now (cont)
@Faithful1223 (cont) have repented. This is not about arrogance or me in any way. I am nothing. This is about the truth. The truth is that so many people tell people that they are secure forever...the person falls away (sometimes for the rest of the their life) and somehow that person was to believe that they were heaven bound and we all act like "oh they were saved, they are in heaven". This is a lie from the the pit. All have sinned and come short, believe me I know I am nothing. (cont)
@BornAgain771 We keep our salvation through obedience to the Lord above self and all others. To disobey directly and commit adultery is calling Him Lord but not making Him Lord. I John 2: 3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. THIS is as plain as it gets. I thank the Lord for salvation because I am undeserving BUT (cont)
@mtzion211 YOU SAID "We keep our salvation through obedience to the Lord above self and all others." So Now You Saying Is By Works. My Friend You Don't Know Whether You Are Lost Or Saved. Now Reading Your Comment I See How You Haven't Read None Of My Comment Replying To All You Said. You Are Just Repeating Yourself. I Answered All Your Question And Gave You Scriptual Proof. Now You Prove To Me You Believe Your Good Works Keep You Saved. My Friend Your Good Works Don't Keep You Saved.
@BornAgain771 (cont) BUT it is up to me to CHOOSE to follow Him daily. We still have choices to make even after we are saved. Mainly this is the theme of 2nd Peter 2:20-22, as I have referred to. Yes, the passage seems to point to those that turned back to Judaism after Christianity but nevertheless these people were saved and the sow was washed. They returned to disobedience and unbelief. This is a turning away from truth and Lord either then or now. (cont)
@mtzion211 Now Ima Prove You Wrong Using Scripture. Now That I Know You Believe We Keep Our Salvation By Good Works I'm Going To Show You Wrong. "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:5 "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:" Romans 3:22
@mtzion211 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:28-29
@mtzion211 Since You Said Its About Good Works In Order To Stay Save. Look What The Words Says "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." Romans 10:3
@mtzion211 YOU ARE DENYING THE LORD, FOR EVEN THINKING YOUR WORKS CAN SAVE YOU OR KEEP YOU SAVED. "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." 2 Peter 2:1
@BornAgain771 Lastly, please read these passages. John 8:31...if ye continue in my word. Romans 11:22...if thou continue in his goodness. Colossians 1:23 ... If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away. I Timothy 2:15 ... if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. I John 2:24 ... If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. (We must continue in following the Lord)
@mtzion211 Once Again We SHOULD Continue In His Word Because We Are Christians. Not Because Its A Must In Order To BE OR STAY SAVED. None Of Them Scriptures Prove You Can Lose Salavation None. You are Denying The Blood Of Christ Who Said "It Is Finished" And Who Died On The Cross For All Our Sins Pass And Present. You Are Not Proving Nothing But A That A Christian "SHOULD" Live Holy.
@mtzion211 THIS IS GOING TO BE YOU "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many WONDERFUL WORKS? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:22 Do You EVEN KNOW WHY HE CALLED THESE PROFESSING CHRISTIANS WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE SAVED BECAUSE THEY DID MANY "WONDERFUL WORKS" WHY DID HE CALLED THEY WORKS INIQUITY? CONTINUED
@BornAgain771 This is not about me being wonderful. I am nothing. My best is filthy rags. I am not worthy to be saved. This is the truth and I not only know this but I feel this. I speak the truth to you. I know that it is not popular but it is the truth. This is not about good works....this is about outright fornicators going to heaven. The Bible speaks in so many places that this is not true....how can you believe anything else. Such were some of us...yes...we mean no harm but (cont)
@BornAgain771 (cont) discipleship is still the requirement. I am not claiming holiness, in fact I know just the opposite. We must end this now. Have a good one. If nothing else quit telling people living adulterous, drunkard, fornicating, etc. type lives that they are still saved and going to heaven. That will be on your head. Mark that one down. I wish you the best. God bless you in the truth of His Word!
@mtzion211 "Fornicators, adulterers, murderers, liars, etc. are not currently saved and cannot be." Not Until They BELIEVE IN THE LORD TO GET SAVED. YOU ARE NOT LISTENING.
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. -->
@mtzion211 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD" 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 HOW MUCH CLEARER CAN THAT BE
@mtzion211 THE REASON HE CALLED THEY WORKS INIQUITY IS BECAUSE THEY NOT TRUST AND BELIEVED IN JESUS ALONE TO BE SAVED. THEY ALSO TRUST IN THEY GOOD WORKS, WHICH CLEARLY SHOWS IT DOESN'T SAVED THEM. SO YOU TEACHING THAT YOU "MUST" DO GOOD WORKS IN ORDER TO STAY SAVED IS FALSE TEACHING. HOW MUCH CLEAR CAN THIS BE "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
@Faithful1223 (cont) This issue is not about sin BEFORE repentance and salvation. This issue is about after salvation. A tree is known by it's fruit. Too many "saved" trees producing corrupt fruit. Please do not tell me that those people that turned to adultery, fornication and the like, were never saved. There are many that served form decades that have turned to a life of disobedience. Salvation can be lost and the Bible is clear. Sorry but a spade in fact is a spade.
@mtzion211 I TOLD YOU WHAT SIN UNTO DEATH IS REFFERING TO. WHERE IN THAT VERSE IT SAYS A CHRISTIAN BROTHER OR SISTER IS GOING TO LOSE THEIR SALVATION? NOWHERE. IF A CHRISTIAN BROTHER OR SISTER CONTINUE TO SIN AFTER BEING BORN AGAIN FOR THE 4TH TIME READ 1 CORINTHIANS 5:1-5 VERSE 5 "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
@BornAgain771 Why would their body need to be delivered to Satan if the spirit is not in jeopardy? In context the passage is teaching to put that person out from the Church. This is not a physical giving of one's body to Satan. I hope that you do not believe that! This is to preserve the "spirit" in the Church body. In verse 11 Paul tells the Corinthians to not even eat with those that do such things. They are not saved...the passage says they are fornicators, drunkards, etc.
@mtzion211 are you serious, you said "This is not a physical giving of one's body to Satan" you keep taking every verse in the bible as symbols you are going to be in for a rude awakening. you are twisting scriptures. 1 Corinthians 5:5 means what it says. you better wake up. you are going to lead many souls to hell.
@Faithful1223 my sister, i agree. what i think he's confused about, is the word "must" and "should." the only 'must" we should do is BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Now We "Should" Produce good fruits because we are saved, not because it is going to save us. he still hasn't explain to me what Galatians 2:16 mean. he's also not understanding that all our good fruits/righteousnesses are as filthy rags." Isaiah 54:6
@mtzion211 ALWAYS REMEMBER,Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
@BornAgain771 This is about works of the law. Because I state that we cannot be adulterers and be saved does not mean that we are "working" for our salvation. I have stated this several times but you seem to be stuck on this working for your salvation thing. Serving God is not grievous nor is keeping His commandments. I do not keep the commandments to be saved, I keep them because I am saved. Those that do not keep them are not saved. It really is simple. Have a good one.
@mtzion211 You Said "I do not keep the commandments to be saved, I keep them because I am saved. Those that do not keep them are not saved. It really is simple. Have a good one." YOU ARE QUOTING ME FINALLY IT IS GETTING THROUGH TO YOU. BUT YOU ARE STILL CONFUSED. I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD GO OUT AND SIN, NO. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN IF A CHRISTIAN FORNICATES HE WILL LOSE HIS SALVATION, NO. THATS WHY IN HEBREWS 12 GOD CLEARLY DISCIPLINE HIS CHILDREN NOT CAST THEM OUT. Read Corint 5:1-5
@mtzion211 The Bible speaks of Fruit Unto Death (i.e., sin)... "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death" (Romans 7:5). Thus, a born-again believer who is not in danger of the Second Death, nor is any longer Spiritual Dead, may by their own wickedness bring forth fruits unto death, i.e., a destroyed testimony, family, health, life, and even premature death. CONTINUE
@mtzion211 Sin destroys! Although the believer has Christ living within their body (1st Corinthians 3:16), they may so choose to live in sin, as if they were still unsaved. Every believer has two-natures: Christ, and the old sin-nature. We must choose which nature to obey. The sin-nature cannot be tamed, refined, educated, reformed, or rehabilitated--it is an unruly evil. Paul stated in Romans 7:25, "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. CONTINUE
@mtzion211 So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Romans 8:10 sheds more light on the matter, "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." Now, it is obvious that the Christian's body is not physically dead after they get saved. So what does Paul mean when he states that the body is dead because of sin? It means that we cannot live for the flesh and God at the same time.
@mtzion211 To please God, as born-again believers, we are to walk in the Spirit of God, and crucify the old man, i.e., the sinful desires of the flesh. If we choose to walk in the flesh, then we have chosen death, because we cannot be filled with the Spirit of God while committing sin. CONTINUED
@mtzion211 And finally, I think James 5:14,15 best explains the meaning of 1st John 5:16...
"Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."
@Faithful1223 Hmmm.....a Calvinist theology. Not the truth. Perseverance of the saints says this same thing. Please notice that those that turn from God in the Bible repent before being accepted back. The Bible states that if deny Christ before men that He will deny us before our Father. Did not Peter deny? Yes he did. Did he repent? Yes he did.
@Faithful1223 God bless you but as I stated to BornAgain771 I must be moving on. I honestly tried to show you the simpleness of God's Word. A tree is known by it's fruit, if ye continue therein, sow that was washed returned to the mire, sins unto death and sins not unto death. I am nothing and have nothing worthy of salvation. I do not just say that but I feel that...as I stated to BornAgain. Just because all have sinned does not mean adulterers, fornicators, liars, drunkards go to heaven.
Lordship.Salvation focuses on urself what sins U are/arent committing, if you're praying enough, fasting enough, doing enough works &instead of focusing on what JESUS already has done 4 U! Ur works will NEVER be enough neither perfect b/c you arent perfect &thats what God required. You STILL SIN. Yes,holy living IS GOOD but its JESUS that makes us holy not our feeble attempt. LS will keep you guessin til ur death bed if you lived the best u could @ please God wh/ Jesus said you cant 2 B saved.
@Faithful1223 my sister, he says it's not by good work, but he's contradicting himself. because then he say you must do good works, or stop sinning to be saved. nobody will ever stop sinning. how much clearer can this verse be @mtzion211 "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Galatians 2:21
When the apostle Paul said we will know them by their fruits he was referring to FALSE prophets/teacher. We study their fruits like the Bereans 2 check & see if what they teach is biblical & a real prophesy. ALL christians will cont. 2 sin until we're in our glorified body. Thats why we are told2 crucify the flesh DAILY. I dont trust in my righteousness or lifestyle to be saved but in what JESUS did and thereby sealing and securing my salvation. We sin everyday in thoughts, actions& deeds. BB,
@Faithful1223 Jesus is the one that stated that a tree is known by it's fruit. How do you explain the sin unto death and the sin not unto death? I am not trying to make it to heaven on works or my own righteousness. Just because I quote the Bible where it states that no murderer, liar, drunkard, adulterer, fornicator, etc. will enter the kingdom of heaven. Now because I do not do these things am I working my way into heaven? No. Eternal security serves to twist easy and plain scripture.GB
@mtzion211 David, a man after Gods own heart lived in horrible sin. After GOD took his baby, David said something that sealed it 4 me as far as me being ETERNALLY SECURE in Jesus Christ. He said my child is dead, he'll not come back 2 me but I WILL GO TO HIM. David was SECURE & ASSURED that he would see his son in heaven. This man chosen by God himself murdered & committed adultery, Yet the Lord FORGAVE HIM & welcomed him home. We dont look to sin but these things can happen to ANY Christian.
@Faithful1223 David was sure of his salvation because he repented and turned from his wrong. Anyone can truly be forgiven if they ask and repent. That does not change the fact that one can lose their salvation. The OT states in several places that if a man turn from evil to good that all his evil will not be remembered. Likewise it states that if a man turn from good to evil that all his good will not be remembered. Please read 2nd Peter 2:20-22. What does that passage say to you? GB
@mtzion211 Not ANY 1 can receive forgiveness of their sins unless they're a CHILD of God. A BELIEVER is UNDER the BLOOD. You must be a BELIEVER. Non believers must be BORN AGAIN bc they're ALREADY condemned for not believing on Jesus [John 3:18]. There's a BIG difference. A non believer can ask all day long for God to forgive them their adultery, murder or lying to no avail. They are not born again. They arent His. That's the diff bet a christian who sins AND IS FORGIVEN& one who isnt. contd-->
@Faithful1223 You used 1 Cor. 6:9 but you didnt continue to the following verse 10 which clearly states," And such WERE some of you: but ye ARE WASHED, but ye ARE SANCITIFIED, but ye ARE JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." Clearly we believers are already redeemed and cleaned. IT IS FINISHED. If and christian sins he has an advocate w/the Father, Jesus Christ. SO what does that imply? CHRISTIANS STILL SIN but the diff is we're UNDER THE BLOOD of Jesus.--contd
@Faithful1223 You also contradicted yourself in your response about David. You just stated that salvation CAN BE LOST right? but then you just said that David ASKED for forgiveness & he was restored again. So wh/ is it? According to 1Cor. 6:9 SHOULDNT DAVID NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE KINGDOM? Do you see your contradiction? David said RESTORE the JOY of my SALVATION, not RESTORE MY SALVATION[Psalms 51:12]. Youre a LORDSHIP salvationist & that's ANOTHER GOSPEL. Youre depending on ur 'RIGHTEOUS living.
@Faithful1223 What contradiction? David sinned and repented of that sin. God will always forgive us if we repent and turn from the sin. There is no contradiction.
@mtzion211 You Said "David sinned and repented of that sin. God will always forgive us if we repent and turn from the sin. There is no contradiction." Thats Exactly Our Point! David wouldn't lose his salvation because he believed in Jesus Only To Save Him. But When David sinned He confessed. Do You even know what is biblical repentance? if not go check out my video on it, because you are confused on that matter.
@mtzion211 Old testament is another covenant so please dont use that on NEW Testament CHRISTIANS, the Church. We as the New testament christians are under GRACE & not LAW keeping for salvation. I hope tht something that has been pointed out in this awesome discussion that will help you to see that God didnt lie when He said we believers are SEALED w/ the Holy Spirit til the day of redemption & to close I use ROMANS 8:38-39. Rest on the Lord dear friend & receive peace,confidence & assurance. BB
@mtzion211 Another perplexing question for proponents of losing salvation is: If salvation can be lost, that how much sin musts a person commit to lose it? ... a little? ... a lot? ... murder? ... adultery? ... two murders? ... cursing Jesus like Peter did? How ridiculous and unbiblical is the idea that salvation can be lost. Salvation is of God; not man (John 1:10-12). CONTINUE -->
@mtzion211 --> How can we lose that which wasn't our to give in the first place? If we're not saved by good works; then how can we be lost by bad works? We cannot! The man in 1st Corinthians 3:15 escaped the fires of Hell; but all his works were burned by fire and he had nothing to show for his wasted earthly life. Yet, he went to Heaven to be with His Savior. Also see 1st Corinthians 5:1-5.
@mtzion211 Explain This Verse "We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:15-16
@mtzion211 David didnt confess his sin of his own volition.If Uread carefully GOD SENT SAMUEL 2 "call him out" on his crimes. David thought no one knew his secret sins but God saw them all &God himself told Samuel 2 bring it to his attention so David doesnt even get credit 4 anything. He "got busted" and came clean not of his own volition just like YOU dont get any points with God for trying to live a "sin free" life. You were a sinner saved by grace & your flesh is your flesh is still sinful.
@Faithful1223 So all these commandments to not sin.....or Jesus saying go and sin no more.....all this is meaningless. So God understands and will just overlook our sin. We are to be sin free of sins unto death...that is spiritual death. We will never be free of all sin as we are less holy than God but we are to be free of sins unto death. The truth will prevail in the end. You keep telling everyone that they are saved and can't lose it. That will be on your head.
@mtzion211 Did I write 1 Jn 1:8-9? I've given U BIBLICAL verses. I didnt write them so I think U mean its on JESUS &the APOSTLES head. Your self righteousness wont let you see tht the LORD keeps you. How many sins did it take Adam to commit to be lost? One right? How many have you committed recently? U are contradicting urself. IF you insist on thinking that you have a right to enter heaven b/c you ARENT SINNING THAT BADLY just remember this verse. Luke 18:11. who was justified ? Im secure.
@Faithful1223 You dont seem 2 comprehend english very well bc I NEVER said that EVERYONE IS SAVED. Where did I say that? I clearly QUOTED John 3:3 that you MUST be born again so NOT EVERYONE IS SAVED. Do you comprehend that part? ONLY those who are born again ARE saved, safe, secure in God's family. You're not born again & dont have the H.Spirit bc You arent fully trusting the Lord ALONE. You clearly demonstrate that you DONT have understanding of the scriptures bc U think U can stop sinning.
@Faithful1223 This is not about my self righteousness for I am nothing. This is about the truth. The simple truth that a tree is known by it's fruit. Fornicators, adulterers, murderers, liars, etc. are not currently saved and cannot be. That is the truth. They are not backslidden, they are not just losing rewards....they are not saved. Please quit trying to convince me that those that do such things can still be saved.
@mtzion211 "Fornicators, adulterers, murderers, liars, etc. are not currently saved and cannot be." Not Until They BELIEVE IN THE LORD TO GET SAVED. YOU ARE NOT LISTENING.
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. -->
@BornAgain771 I tried to explain that to this gentlemen but he is blind to himself falling short of the glory of God, even if he thinks b/c he hasnt murdered, or stolen a major electronic item, or robbed a bank, but he doesnt seem to get that HE STILL SINS. Sir, God says it's EVIL to say "Im going away on vacation or next yr I'll do this or that and NOT say GOD WILLING. contd---->>
@Faithful1223 Do U ALWAYS SAY God willing after every plan you may say to someone? JAMES 4:17 CALLS IT EVIL BOASTING. So UR doing evil. "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it NOT, to him it is SIN. We christians can sin by OMMISSION OR COMMISSION. Do you know what that means? IF you dont DO what you know is right ITS SIN. I KNOW you dont DO whats right EVERY TIME. Thats God's standard of perfection. Jesus 2commands 2 us to KEEP as best we can is Matt. 22:34-40. the ROYAL law.
@mtzion211 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD" 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 HOW MUCH CLEARER CAN THAT BE
@mtzion211 Stop trying 2 CONVINCE ME THAT YOU ARENT SINNING EITHER. You LIE, have bad thoughts, etc til this day. You are still human. Your answer that "people like that" cant be saved is pure ARROGANCE & SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS & would INCLUDE U. I guess Paul,David,Peter who DENIED JESUS 3X, Jacob LIED, Moses disobeyed God @Desert, are NOT in heaven since they were BELIEVERS yet STILL COMMITTED AWFUL SINS. My job isnt 2 CONVINCE U [Holy Spirits job] but Im 2 EXPOSE YOUR ERROR. How arrogant of you..
@Faithful1223 If U are getting angry w/ me a brethren that is sin also. Paul said to put away ANGER. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: EPH4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. Do you bless people that curse U? thats what we are to do & if you dont its sin to the christian. I hope Im makin a point here. UR salvation is lost then.
So if there's no assurance in salvation then its up to me to keep my salvation but several verses clearly tell us that the Lord preserves you over and over again. If you dont trust in Christ ALONE for your salvation then its faith plus works. Adding to Jesus perfect work with my IMPERFECT works is an insult to Jesus and you have fallen from GRACE. If there is no assurance THEN NO ONE WILL MAKE IT b/c you SIN in thoughts, actions & IF YOU DONT DO what you are suppose to THAT IS SIN TOO. Got it?
@Faithful1223 Thank you for posting. There is no insult to Jesus in displaying the truth. The truth is simple honestly. God expects his followers to live correct and Christian lives. A tree is known by it's fruit. This is really not complicated but only gets misunderstood when this "imperfect" issue comes up. The Bible teaches that there is a "sin unto death" and a "sin not unto death". Sins such as lying, stealing, murder, adultery, fornication, drunkards...will not inherit the kingdom.GB
YOU ARE DENYING JESUS CHRIST'S SACRIFICE when you deny that once we're saved we're always saved. Don't you realize that this means you ARE NOT SAVED because you believe it takes something you do (works) to make you saved?!?! PLEASE BEG Jesus to forgive you, and have a child like trust in Jesus to save you from your sins! NOTHING WE DO will ever save us or keep us saved!
@thinkagainism1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
@thinkagainismEph 5:4 neither baseness, foolish talking, jesting, which are not becoming, but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For you know this, that no fornicator, or unclean person, or covetous one (who is an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience.
@dandom01 You can't lose your salvation that is completely against scripture. Salvation is secure and I can show you. This is one of the worst lies of chrsitianity.
@thinkagainism Eternal security is a lie from the pit. I have studied this through and through. I have studied all the passages for and against. You can lose your salvation.
Are you saying, that if you are saved,and then willingly sin for a while, you have lost your salvation forever no matter how sincere you about about Him later?
If so, I'm doomed. I was saved for years, then sinned, badly, for months.Now I am on my face, never been so broken- for once I love His law and word completely..All I want to do now is lay my life down fully to Him - But as you say, it's too late for me, I am doomed. In fact if I don't have a heart attack from fear tonite I'll be shocked
@Sven3xs Hello and thank you for posting. No, I am not saying that you cannot repent. Anyone that has turned from God always has a chance to repent. Repentance is not as easy sometimes as it sounds though. To leave the Lord and then think we can come back at any time is misleading. Yes we can come back anytime we get a true dose of repentance but leaving the Lord is playing with fire because who knows if one will ever come back. Either way if you are repentant you can always come back. :)
@Sven3xs Just keep the faith and do not sin willfully. There are sins unto death and sins not unto death, as the bible describes. Sins not unto death are things that are less holy than God....for instance patience or humility. These things are sins, but not unto spiritual death. A tree is known by it's fruit. If your life is producing good fruit and you are not willfully sinning than do not let the devil convince you otherwise. GB
What has me so frightened quite honestly, is the level of my sins, they were not small sins, not at all. Serious enough that I'm far too ashamed to speak of them. Is my new found dedication in vain? After years of nothing capped off by months of serious sin? Peter seems to say so.
This is the horror of the war I wage inside me. I don't mention it obviously when I'm trying to speak the gospel to someone. .I don't want them to even think that direction.
@Sven3xs I will say this to you. Whatever the sins, God is able to forgive. This much I am sure of from scripture. I would not dwell on past sins. If you have truly repented and asked forgiveness then just as Jesus said,"Go and sin no more." Jesus does not condemn the sinner but simply tells us to be sorry and turn from those sins. Again, past sins are not nearly as important as future sins. GB
Think not that my problem is that I don't believe you, to the contrary, my problem is that I believe you wholeheartedly. And I'll be honest with you in saying that I believe it so much, that I can seldom breathe properly lately, and that's Not a figure of speech @ all.
Right now my life consists of fighting for Him, that others may Never experience what I am going through now.
And, in my humble opinion, sticking my head in the OSAS sand, is not safe.
@mtzion211 I can see what you're saying in a way about leaving the Lord & then thinking we can come back anytime. Its because it gets more difficult and the heart gradually hardens when we keep playing 'games.' Get saved, live for G*d. Then backslide. Repent, backslide. Etc etc. One starts to doubt their own motives, but G*d sees the heart. I have always wondered if because of that, G*d doesn't see down the road in advance- and sear the hearts of those He KNOWS won't come back anyways.
@mtzion211 Thought #2: If it were too late for someone and they played games too long... they wouldn't care about their soul at that point anyhow. Much less repent. Right? Because if the answer is anything other than yes, or if it's more complicated than that.... then that would mean that G*d was NOT so forgiving. Only for an opportune time and that's it. I would like to think that as long as one knows they're doing wrong, and repents...that they're not 'seared' yet.
I know people who call themselves 'Christians' while going out and doing whatever they feel like. I know this topic is much deeper than our words, but I have always taken the position that if someone was once truly 'saved,' even if they turn away, God will go after that person. If someone falls into sin, God's grace is always ready to find them again. So in that sense, I still don't believe like if you or I sin in this way or have a season of unbelief, our salvation is lost.. Cont'd
"Many believe once saved always saved." I am one of them because I know that if it were up to me to 'keep' my salvation, I wouldn't really have much hope of getting to heaven! For those of you who are trusting in Christ for your salvation but think you might end up in hell, I love you and respect you, but i hope you can see if you can 'lose' your salvation, you're not really saved yet, because it comes through death. Ephesians 2:5 says 'We are seated w/ Christ in heavenly places." God bless,
@Drooblemeister Thank you for posting! There is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death. As I am sure you are aware the OT has many physical events that point to a spiritual event in the NT. There were sins that you would be killed for under the law and some that you would not. This is applies spiritually in the NT. You will not lose your salvation for being less merciful or patient than God, this is all of us. You will lose your salvation for certain sins. GB
@Drooblemeister Thank you for posting! There is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death. As I am sure you are aware the OT has many physical events that point to a spiritual event in the NT. There were sins that you would be killed for under the law and some that you would not. This is applies spiritually in the NT. You will not lose your salvation for being less merciful or patient than God, this is all of us. You will lose your salvation for certain sins. GB
No worries.. Let me just say I understand why some people, including yourself might believe this from Scripture. I guess besides Jesus' reference to 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit' being an unforgivable sin (which I'm still uncertain about what this specifically entails), I'm not sure which specific sins the Bible refers to that would qualify as 'losing' your salvation. If we can lose our salvation, then are we truly saved yet? Where does grace come into play? Blessings,
@Drooblemeister Thank you again. I appreciate honest Christian debate without malice. The sins that would be unto spiritual death are murder, lying, stealing, drunkenness, adultery, fornication, etc. The Bible states that those that do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God....which is now present. I have known many people that were ministers, teachers, etc. that turned away from God. I am not convinced that they were not saved. The sow that was washed returned to the mire. GB
Cont'd but that these verses are speaking of those who are already lost, the world lives in this way, a true believer can fall into anyone of these sins, and if they are God's true sheep, they will be disgusted and turn away after they have sinned.. My understanding is that God will not let go of a person who has become adopted as His own, your friends that have fallen away, I believe if they were true, God will bring them back again, I'm trusting God for that w/ my own friend.. Peace,
@Drooblemeister Thank you again for posting. I believe that a tree is known by it's fruit. Also how many times does one have to commit adultery to be an adulterer. Once. If a person truly repents of any sin they can be forgiven. God is always there willing to forgive an honest heart. We must be careful with that though as true repentance is easier said than done once a heart is hardened. In my opinion we will lose our salvation by committing sins unto death. GB and thanks again.
Sorry, just one more thought to add to that, besides certain Scripture references that I believe point to us being saved now, eternally His, I just wanted to add a thought I heard from a pastor, "If the only way for you to be free from sin is through death, then Jesus is not your Savior, death is, because death set you free from sin." I would through in the word saved in this sentence =) I see you're saying these things w/ pure motives, so even though I don't agree, I still honor that in you..
@Drooblemeister The simple message is that a tree is known by it's fruit. Many profess salvation while committing acts of adultery, stealing, etc. We must understand that there are sins unto death and sins not unto death as the Bible states. To everyone, please do not tell me that you are a child of God while such sins are being committed. We cannot help but be less holy than God, we all are. These are sins not unto death. GB
Sorry, just one more thought to add to that, besides certain Scripture references that I believe point to us being saved now, eternally His, I just wanted to add a thought I heard from a pastor, "If the only way for you to be free from sin is through death, then Jesus is not your Savior, death is, because death set you free from sin." I would through in the word saved in this sentence =) I see you're saying these things w/ pure motives, so even though I don't agree, I still honor that in you..
@Drooblemeister My Brother, mtzion211 is confused on this subject by adding works to salvation. For More info go check out my videos. He's not understanding we keep the commandments of God Because we love him, not because keeping them will save us. if you read all the comments i posted i destroyed all his beliefs on losing salvation, in which he has no answers for but questioning me what certain verses mean. to my understanding he shouldnt be teaching if he's looking for answers.
Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev_2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Good Job brother! The poison doctrine of eternal security would suggest that they don't need a Bible which is full of warnings to Christians. Especially such warnings as Revelation 2, 3 , where the Spirit is speaking to the Church. Not a building, not unbelievers among the Church but the Church, the Body of Christ and His warning was that if they failed to overcome their names would be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life and be cast into the lake of fire.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." According 2 your OWN false teaching u would be DISQUALIFIED from the kingdom if it werent the work of Christ on the cross. You dont seem 2agree w/ Matt5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall BREAK ONE of these least commandments, AND shall TEACH men so, he shall be called the LEAST in the KINGDOM of HEAVEN: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. EXPLAIN.
Faithful1223 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 Ok. 1) In context the passage is teaching that the we are all equal in God's eyes. We are not to be a respecter of persons according to wealth, clothing, etc. This is not teaching concerning a sin unto death. This is a "we all are guilty" lesson. Catch the next verse after the one you quoted. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. This is not about (cont)
mtzion211 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 (cont1) loss of salvation or turning from God but is about that we all are guilty before God as all have sinned and none need to be a respecter of persons. Let me ask this we will use a fornicator as an example. Two people living in sin. Do you say they can be heaven bound in that current state?
mtzion211 1 day ago
This verse answers UR video PERFECTLY as2 why & I quote"professing christians" who "turn" "lose their salvation". THEY WERE NEVER CHRISTIANS IN THE FIRST PLACE according2 the apostle 1John 2:19"They went out from us, but they WERE NOT of us;for IF they had been of us, they would NO DOUBT have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made MANIFEST that they were NOT ALL OF US." Wow!! End of discussion. It's not the sinning that caused lost of salvation,they werent truly BELIEVERS.
Faithful1223 2 days ago
@Faithful1223 dude on the video don't know whats he's talking about. how clearer does "we are saved by grace through faith, not of works" can be? of course drunkards, fornicators etc. will not inherit the Kingdom, unless they believe and trust in the Lord they will. When becoming born again, that does not mean we are going to seize from sin. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 john 1:8
BornAgain771 2 days ago
@BornAgain771 The video is not complicated nor hard to understand. Read 2nd Peter 2:20-22. The simple truth is that a tree is known by it's fruit. People that are saved do not do certain things. Just because we are to live a certain way as Christians does not mean that I am interjecting works unto salvation. If once saved always saved please tell me about those that are saved and turn back to adultery, fornicating, etc. They are lost.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Thats what you call a back sliding Christian. You are still implying good works or not sinning to save you. when salvation is simply by grace through faith. tell how do people got to work for something that was a free gift? Christians that believe and turn back to adultery God chastise them discipline. He does not take away their place in the kingdom. Show me a verse that says you can lose your salvation if you don't produce good works?
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 ok...First, it is not by works that we are saved. No one ever stated otherwise. Second, the Bible states that if a man say I know him and does not keep His commandments then that man is a liar. (I John 2:4) Point is this. You cannot do certain things and call yourself a Christian.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 I Feel You Are Looking For Answers. Go Check Out My Videos It Explains Everything You Are Looking For. Do You Sin? Do You Follow The Law To The Tee?
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 I am always looking for answers concerning truth but not outright lies about eternal security. No offense but eternal security is a lie from the pit.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 My Friend, You Are Confused On The Subject About Biblical Repentance. Do You Even Know What The Work Of God Is For Us To Be Saved?
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Read Carefully, "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?" John 6:28 Now Read Verse 29 Carefully "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." DID YOU READ THAT, THE WORK OF IS FOR US TO BELIEVE.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 The devils also believe. James 2:19. If you truly believe you will change and depart from your sin. Remember there is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death. Most do not even try to explain that. They just say that we all sin.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 God's Knows The Heart Of Man,You Don't. So Are You Calling Jesus A Liar When HE Said " THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN ME SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE."
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 Those that believe do not commit sins unto death or they will lose their salvation.
mtzion211 1 day ago
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@mtzion211 You Said "Those that believe do not commit sins unto death or they will lose their salvation." Then You Got The Nerve To Say It's Not By Work. My Friend I See You On Are Confused On This Subject. I'm Proving To You On My Comments With Bible Scriptures That You Are Wrong. One Minute You Say Its Faith Alone, Then You Say We must Produce Good Fruit. It's Not " MUST" It Is We "SHOULD" Because We Are Saved Thats Where You Are confused
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 What is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death?
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 John is not speaking about the unpardonable sin at all. Isaiah 1:18 makes clear that anyone can be forgiven if they so desire it... "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." The only unpardonable sin is rejecting Jesus Christ, i.e., refusing to come to God the Father through God the Son. 1 John 2:22,23 plainly states this Biblical truth.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES. STUDY TO SHOW THYSELF APPOVE UNTO GOD.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Of Course The Devil Also Believes And Tremble. God Know's Who REally Trust And Believe On Jesus To Save Them. "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:30-31 He Answered Simply With "BELIEVE" To Be Saved Thats It Point Blank Period
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 If i or any other have to work for the free gift of salvation, then it was never a gift. 2 Peter 2:20-21 "escaped the pollutions of the world through the KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVIOR" he is talking about people who profess to be christians first of all, it DOES NOT SAY those that recieved Jesus as savior once again entangled themselves, but it does say those "THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE" You are twisting scripture, you are leaning to your own understanding and thats a no no.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 2nd Peter 2:20-22 states as the sow that was washed returns to the mire. The passage also states that they have"escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of Lord and Savior Jesus Christ they are again entangled. These people have escaped the pollutions of the world. These people have been untangled. The passage is clear that these are saved people.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Obviously, this Scripture taken by itself can be interpreted to mean multiple things. The only safe method to interpret this Scripture is by cross-referencing it with other Scriptures. This is why Jesus commanded us to SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES in John 5:39. I believe the context is clearly speaking about a person who has heard the Gospel, attended a church, played the religious game for awhile; but then went back into the sinful world.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 Yes we must look at all scripture...1) A tree is known by it's fruit....a good tree cannot produce evil fruit and an evil tree cannot produce good fruit. 2) If a man say I know Him and does not keep His commandments then that man is a liar. 3) A person's can be taken out of the book of life, end of Revelation. There are more especially in the OT like God stating that a person's good will not be remembered if they turn and that their evil will not be remembered if they do good.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 YOU ARE LEANING TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING. YOU ARE FALLING FROM GOD'S GRACE. YOU ARE TRYING TO ESTABLISH SALVATION THROUGH YOUR GOOD WORKS, YOU ARE GOING TO FIND YOURSELF IN THE LAKE OF FIRE IF YOU DON'T CORRECT YOURSELF. YOU ARE GOING TO THE OLD TESTAMENT I AM A GENTILE LIKE YOU, NOT A JEW. READ THE BOOK OF GALATIANS.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 The Lake of Fire is not hell.....that is a misunderstanding. Revelation is not literal but that is another topic.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 READ THIS VERSE VERY CLOSE, "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." ROMANS 10:3
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 2 Peter 2:20-21 Does Not SAY THOSE WHO RECIEVED JESUS AS SAVIOR. IT'S TALKING ABOUT THOSE THAT RECIEVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 They are again entangled...they must of been untangled. Sow that was washed?
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 IF 2 Peter 2:20-22 are speaking about believers, then it wouldn't make any sense, because it require that a born-again believer go through the process of being "UNBORN." That is impossible. Jesus NEVER said anything about being born again and again and again. No, rather, the spiritual birth occurs once, just as the physical birth occurs only once. Again, if these Scriptures apply to the saved, then where does the gift of God come into play?
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 Salvation is a gift from God, this is true. We all have sinned and come short. Now just because it is a gift does not mean that we can live anyway we want. If we love Him we will keep His commandments. Everyone wants to make something straight forward to be complicated. That is what happens when we stop believing that a tree is known by it's fruit. People say, "I am a good tree, I am saved" meanwhile the fruit is bad. this is not possible.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Exactly if we "LOVE HIM WE WILL KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS" IT DOES NOT SAY "IF WE LOVE HIM WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS TO BE SAVED." ANY CHRISTIAN THAT DOES BREAK GOD COMMANDMENTS HE WILL DISCIPLINE NOT FORSAKE THEM. "MR. I DON'T SIN"
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 Ok...this conversation is basically over. Again, no one said that we keep His commandments to be saved. We cannot work or keep commandments to be saved. It is a free gift. That does not mean that a Christian earns their salvation because they keep His commandments. It means they are saved and love Him. Those that claim to know Him while doing evil simply do not know Him. I do not care if you think they are backsliding or never were saved. They can't be saved currently.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 You said "please tell me about those that are saved and turn back to adultery, fornicating, etc." Ok Read 1 Corin 5:1-5 After You Read The First 4 Verses Carefully Read Verse 5 "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." Obviously you are not reading, because have you been reading you would of known this. you have to do less teaching and more studying.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 First, insulting me about reading my Bible is not Christian. Second, I have been studying for 25 years....pretty heavy at most times. Nevertheless, studying alone does not bring the truth as there are many studied people that are wrong. I know that you think that I am one of them. There is no way around the fact that the Bible states that people that do such things will NOT inherit the kingdom of heaven. This is simple to understand until we complicate it.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 all the knowledge in the world you claim you have, won't save you. you think you wise look what the Lord says about professing christians who claim to be wise. "Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise." 1 Corin 3:18 "Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!" isaiah 5:21 and many more
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 Sir...this is not about me being wise...I am nothing. This is about the truth and worse yet the truth that is twisted by many that believe in eternal security. People can turn to God and people can turn away from God. It is their choice to follow Him or not. Whatever we do please do not try to convince me that drunkards, fornicators, liars, etc. are currently saved. They are lost.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 You The One That Claim To Have 25 Years Of Studying The Bible, Did You Not? So You Were Reffering That You Were Wise Because The 25 Years YouSpent On Reading. Stop Trying To Play Mind Games.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 I pointed that out because of your insults regarding how I need to read the Bible. I also pointed out that study alone does not bring truth or everyone would be in agreement. This conversation is over. You do not have a heart to try to understand. God bless you in the truth of His Word. I will not reply anymore to you as this is now fruitless. I must move on to those that would hear the truth.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 YOU SAID "I also pointed out that study alone does not bring truth or everyone would be in agreement." I See Many That Comment On Your Video Go Against Your False Teachings. So That Must Be Telling Me Something About You.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 I am in good company then if people are going agains me for my "false teachings". I remember one they hung on the cross for "false teachings". If truth brought popularity I guess Jesus would of had more followers. This is bad ground to stand on with this comment.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 To You It's Bad Ground, To Me I See Me And My Fellow Brothers And Sister Are On One Accord Like The Bible Say We Should. You Actually Are Not Answering None Of My Questions Why Is The "Mr. I Don't Sin" No I got a better one "Mr. Good Fruits To be Saved"
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 I never stated I don't sin....where did I say that. I do not commit sins unto death and if I did, I would be dead (spiritually). It is not good fruits to be saved....it is good fruits because I am saved. How many times do I have to say this?
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 LYING IS A SIN UNTO DEATH. ALL LIARS GO TO THE LAKE OF FIRE. [REVELATIONS] NOT ONE LIE IS ALLOWED IN HEAVEN. SO I GUESS YOU ARE GOING TO HELL THEN BECAUSE IF YOU TELL ME THAT YOU HAVENT LIED ONCE SINCE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, GUESS WHAT? YOU JUST LIED. SO EXPLAIN YOURSELF OUT OF THAT ONE.
Faithful1223 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 I cannot believe that this is that difficult to understand. I never stated that I have never sinned. Fact is though, Christians do not commit sins unto death. No I do not lie, I do not commit adultery, I do not murder, I am not a drunkard. Again, whew, if you love Him, you will keep His commandments. What sins do you commit? Do you lie? Do you murder? Do you steal? Are not these choices that you make daily? Quit twisting what is being said.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Pride&self righteousness are UR sins. The ones that lead 2satan's down fall. Also disobedience b/c Ur a liar if U boast that U OBEY GOD EVERY SINGLE DAY & perfectly. Paul sp/ about his struggle in the flesh. Maybe God should have chosen YOU instead of Paul the apostle, since Ur "little sins"are no big deal. Paul DISOBEYED God AFTER being saved. Didnt Peter sin &Paul rebuked him publically? NO SIN ENTERS HEAVEN. Neither big nor small. 1 John 1:8-9 /2:1-2 to whom is Jesus referring to?
Faithful1223 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. IT IS HARD TO ADD TO THIS (cont)
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 (cont) Notice the passage is speaking mostly of walking in darkness and saying we have fellowship with him. If we walk in the light 1) we have fellowship 2) and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. Verse 8-9 as you refer to speaks of us all needing Christ and having committed sin, not current sin. Even if you believe that this passage pertains to current sin in the Christians' life it would be referring to sins not unto death.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 He doesnt sin AS BAD AS YOU DO..ha lol!..thats the point this gentlemen is trying 2 convince us of. See he hasnt sinned ONE sin that was "realllly bad"..lol..since he got saved. But he saying he's sorry is enuff for GOd to forgive & be merciful 2 HIM but WOE 2 his fellow bro/sis that may be caught up or downtrodden by a drug or alcohol addiction. They def ARE goin 2hell accord 2him. No MERCY/restoring 4them?Im glad Jesus died 4 ME bc like Paul said I have NO confidence in my flesh
Faithful1223 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 Now surely God would convince you that it is wrong to mock me. You should apologize but that is up to you. If either of you commit sins unto death then you are right....I do not sin as bad as you. Please explain to me the sin unto death and sin not unto death. Can you? Please show me a liar, thief, murderer, that has not repented and still is saved! Can you?
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 I didnt mock you I merely repeated what you've been trying 2 convince folks of wh/ I find facetious. That your sins you're currently committing arent "that bad". I clearly told you that lying is a SIN that will take you 2the lake of fire if ONE is NOT a christian but if you ARE U have an advocate with the Father, Jesus, our high priest, who forgives ALL sins, past, present AND future. A Christians sin whether of omission or commission are COVERED under the blood of Jesus. contd-->
Faithful1223 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 A sin not unto death would be WORRYING but I am sure if you ask your family members if the ONLY sinning U do is worry I think they'll definately disagree. You cant see your own arrogance, pride & lack of knowledge of the scriptures. I was once under the lordship salvation gospel until the Holy Spirit corrected me w/scripture. Nothing wrong w/ being mistaken, wh/ happens 2 all but U deliberately ignored clear biblical verses of REMAINING saved even after a CHRISTIAN sins. contd
Faithful1223 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 Ok...a sin not unto death is worrying...what is a sin unto death? So if worrying is not too bad a sin, and is not unto death (obviously spiritual death) what again would be a sin unto death. Please listen to the truth. Those sins unto death would be sins of direct and utter disobedience. Many of them are named in the NT which clearly states that those that do such things WILL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Now the Bible also states that such were some of you, but now (cont)
mtzion211 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 (cont) have repented. This is not about arrogance or me in any way. I am nothing. This is about the truth. The truth is that so many people tell people that they are secure forever...the person falls away (sometimes for the rest of the their life) and somehow that person was to believe that they were heaven bound and we all act like "oh they were saved, they are in heaven". This is a lie from the the pit. All have sinned and come short, believe me I know I am nothing. (cont)
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Tell me then how do we keep our salvation, since you say we can lose it?
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 We keep our salvation through obedience to the Lord above self and all others. To disobey directly and commit adultery is calling Him Lord but not making Him Lord. I John 2: 3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. THIS is as plain as it gets. I thank the Lord for salvation because I am undeserving BUT (cont)
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 YOU SAID "We keep our salvation through obedience to the Lord above self and all others." So Now You Saying Is By Works. My Friend You Don't Know Whether You Are Lost Or Saved. Now Reading Your Comment I See How You Haven't Read None Of My Comment Replying To All You Said. You Are Just Repeating Yourself. I Answered All Your Question And Gave You Scriptual Proof. Now You Prove To Me You Believe Your Good Works Keep You Saved. My Friend Your Good Works Don't Keep You Saved.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 (cont) BUT it is up to me to CHOOSE to follow Him daily. We still have choices to make even after we are saved. Mainly this is the theme of 2nd Peter 2:20-22, as I have referred to. Yes, the passage seems to point to those that turned back to Judaism after Christianity but nevertheless these people were saved and the sow was washed. They returned to disobedience and unbelief. This is a turning away from truth and Lord either then or now. (cont)
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Now Ima Prove You Wrong Using Scripture. Now That I Know You Believe We Keep Our Salvation By Good Works I'm Going To Show You Wrong. "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:5 "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:" Romans 3:22
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:28-29
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Since You Said Its About Good Works In Order To Stay Save. Look What The Words Says "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." Romans 10:3
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 YOU ARE DENYING THE LORD, FOR EVEN THINKING YOUR WORKS CAN SAVE YOU OR KEEP YOU SAVED. "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." 2 Peter 2:1
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 Lastly, please read these passages. John 8:31...if ye continue in my word. Romans 11:22...if thou continue in his goodness. Colossians 1:23 ... If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away. I Timothy 2:15 ... if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. I John 2:24 ... If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. (We must continue in following the Lord)
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Once Again We SHOULD Continue In His Word Because We Are Christians. Not Because Its A Must In Order To BE OR STAY SAVED. None Of Them Scriptures Prove You Can Lose Salavation None. You are Denying The Blood Of Christ Who Said "It Is Finished" And Who Died On The Cross For All Our Sins Pass And Present. You Are Not Proving Nothing But A That A Christian "SHOULD" Live Holy.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 THIS IS GOING TO BE YOU "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many WONDERFUL WORKS? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:22 Do You EVEN KNOW WHY HE CALLED THESE PROFESSING CHRISTIANS WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE SAVED BECAUSE THEY DID MANY "WONDERFUL WORKS" WHY DID HE CALLED THEY WORKS INIQUITY? CONTINUED
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 This is not about me being wonderful. I am nothing. My best is filthy rags. I am not worthy to be saved. This is the truth and I not only know this but I feel this. I speak the truth to you. I know that it is not popular but it is the truth. This is not about good works....this is about outright fornicators going to heaven. The Bible speaks in so many places that this is not true....how can you believe anything else. Such were some of us...yes...we mean no harm but (cont)
mtzion211 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 (cont) discipleship is still the requirement. I am not claiming holiness, in fact I know just the opposite. We must end this now. Have a good one. If nothing else quit telling people living adulterous, drunkard, fornicating, etc. type lives that they are still saved and going to heaven. That will be on your head. Mark that one down. I wish you the best. God bless you in the truth of His Word!
mtzion211 1 day ago
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@mtzion211 "Fornicators, adulterers, murderers, liars, etc. are not currently saved and cannot be." Not Until They BELIEVE IN THE LORD TO GET SAVED. YOU ARE NOT LISTENING.
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. -->
BornAgain771 1 day ago
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@mtzion211 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD" 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 HOW MUCH CLEARER CAN THAT BE
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 THE REASON HE CALLED THEY WORKS INIQUITY IS BECAUSE THEY NOT TRUST AND BELIEVED IN JESUS ALONE TO BE SAVED. THEY ALSO TRUST IN THEY GOOD WORKS, WHICH CLEARLY SHOWS IT DOESN'T SAVED THEM. SO YOU TEACHING THAT YOU "MUST" DO GOOD WORKS IN ORDER TO STAY SAVED IS FALSE TEACHING. HOW MUCH CLEAR CAN THIS BE "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 (cont) This issue is not about sin BEFORE repentance and salvation. This issue is about after salvation. A tree is known by it's fruit. Too many "saved" trees producing corrupt fruit. Please do not tell me that those people that turned to adultery, fornication and the like, were never saved. There are many that served form decades that have turned to a life of disobedience. Salvation can be lost and the Bible is clear. Sorry but a spade in fact is a spade.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 I TOLD YOU WHAT SIN UNTO DEATH IS REFFERING TO. WHERE IN THAT VERSE IT SAYS A CHRISTIAN BROTHER OR SISTER IS GOING TO LOSE THEIR SALVATION? NOWHERE. IF A CHRISTIAN BROTHER OR SISTER CONTINUE TO SIN AFTER BEING BORN AGAIN FOR THE 4TH TIME READ 1 CORINTHIANS 5:1-5 VERSE 5 "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 Why would their body need to be delivered to Satan if the spirit is not in jeopardy? In context the passage is teaching to put that person out from the Church. This is not a physical giving of one's body to Satan. I hope that you do not believe that! This is to preserve the "spirit" in the Church body. In verse 11 Paul tells the Corinthians to not even eat with those that do such things. They are not saved...the passage says they are fornicators, drunkards, etc.
mtzion211 1 day ago
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@mtzion211 are you serious, you said "This is not a physical giving of one's body to Satan" you keep taking every verse in the bible as symbols you are going to be in for a rude awakening. you are twisting scriptures. 1 Corinthians 5:5 means what it says. you better wake up. you are going to lead many souls to hell.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 my sister, i agree. what i think he's confused about, is the word "must" and "should." the only 'must" we should do is BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Now We "Should" Produce good fruits because we are saved, not because it is going to save us. he still hasn't explain to me what Galatians 2:16 mean. he's also not understanding that all our good fruits/righteousnesses are as filthy rags." Isaiah 54:6
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 ALWAYS REMEMBER,Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 This is about works of the law. Because I state that we cannot be adulterers and be saved does not mean that we are "working" for our salvation. I have stated this several times but you seem to be stuck on this working for your salvation thing. Serving God is not grievous nor is keeping His commandments. I do not keep the commandments to be saved, I keep them because I am saved. Those that do not keep them are not saved. It really is simple. Have a good one.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 You Said "I do not keep the commandments to be saved, I keep them because I am saved. Those that do not keep them are not saved. It really is simple. Have a good one." YOU ARE QUOTING ME FINALLY IT IS GETTING THROUGH TO YOU. BUT YOU ARE STILL CONFUSED. I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD GO OUT AND SIN, NO. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN IF A CHRISTIAN FORNICATES HE WILL LOSE HIS SALVATION, NO. THATS WHY IN HEBREWS 12 GOD CLEARLY DISCIPLINE HIS CHILDREN NOT CAST THEM OUT. Read Corint 5:1-5
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 The Bible speaks of Fruit Unto Death (i.e., sin)... "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death" (Romans 7:5). Thus, a born-again believer who is not in danger of the Second Death, nor is any longer Spiritual Dead, may by their own wickedness bring forth fruits unto death, i.e., a destroyed testimony, family, health, life, and even premature death. CONTINUE
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Sin destroys! Although the believer has Christ living within their body (1st Corinthians 3:16), they may so choose to live in sin, as if they were still unsaved. Every believer has two-natures: Christ, and the old sin-nature. We must choose which nature to obey. The sin-nature cannot be tamed, refined, educated, reformed, or rehabilitated--it is an unruly evil. Paul stated in Romans 7:25, "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. CONTINUE
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Romans 8:10 sheds more light on the matter, "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." Now, it is obvious that the Christian's body is not physically dead after they get saved. So what does Paul mean when he states that the body is dead because of sin? It means that we cannot live for the flesh and God at the same time.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 To please God, as born-again believers, we are to walk in the Spirit of God, and crucify the old man, i.e., the sinful desires of the flesh. If we choose to walk in the flesh, then we have chosen death, because we cannot be filled with the Spirit of God while committing sin. CONTINUED
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 And finally, I think James 5:14,15 best explains the meaning of 1st John 5:16...
"Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 Hmmm.....a Calvinist theology. Not the truth. Perseverance of the saints says this same thing. Please notice that those that turn from God in the Bible repent before being accepted back. The Bible states that if deny Christ before men that He will deny us before our Father. Did not Peter deny? Yes he did. Did he repent? Yes he did.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 God bless you but as I stated to BornAgain771 I must be moving on. I honestly tried to show you the simpleness of God's Word. A tree is known by it's fruit, if ye continue therein, sow that was washed returned to the mire, sins unto death and sins not unto death. I am nothing and have nothing worthy of salvation. I do not just say that but I feel that...as I stated to BornAgain. Just because all have sinned does not mean adulterers, fornicators, liars, drunkards go to heaven.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 I must go. I do wish you the best and have no ill toward you in any way. God bless you in the truth of His Word!
mtzion211 1 day ago
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BornAgain771 1 day ago
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@mtzion211 You Are Denying The Very Lord That Died For Yours Sins, By Adding Works To Salvation. you bringing upon yourself swift destruction .
BornAgain771 1 day ago
Lordship.Salvation focuses on urself what sins U are/arent committing, if you're praying enough, fasting enough, doing enough works &instead of focusing on what JESUS already has done 4 U! Ur works will NEVER be enough neither perfect b/c you arent perfect &thats what God required. You STILL SIN. Yes,holy living IS GOOD but its JESUS that makes us holy not our feeble attempt. LS will keep you guessin til ur death bed if you lived the best u could @ please God wh/ Jesus said you cant 2 B saved.
Faithful1223 2 days ago
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BornAgain771 2 days ago
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BornAgain771 2 days ago
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@Faithful1223 my sister, he says it's not by good work, but he's contradicting himself. because then he say you must do good works, or stop sinning to be saved. nobody will ever stop sinning. how much clearer can this verse be @mtzion211 "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Galatians 2:21
BornAgain771 2 days ago
When the apostle Paul said we will know them by their fruits he was referring to FALSE prophets/teacher. We study their fruits like the Bereans 2 check & see if what they teach is biblical & a real prophesy. ALL christians will cont. 2 sin until we're in our glorified body. Thats why we are told2 crucify the flesh DAILY. I dont trust in my righteousness or lifestyle to be saved but in what JESUS did and thereby sealing and securing my salvation. We sin everyday in thoughts, actions& deeds. BB,
Faithful1223 3 days ago
@Faithful1223 Jesus is the one that stated that a tree is known by it's fruit. How do you explain the sin unto death and the sin not unto death? I am not trying to make it to heaven on works or my own righteousness. Just because I quote the Bible where it states that no murderer, liar, drunkard, adulterer, fornicator, etc. will enter the kingdom of heaven. Now because I do not do these things am I working my way into heaven? No. Eternal security serves to twist easy and plain scripture.GB
mtzion211 3 days ago
@mtzion211 David, a man after Gods own heart lived in horrible sin. After GOD took his baby, David said something that sealed it 4 me as far as me being ETERNALLY SECURE in Jesus Christ. He said my child is dead, he'll not come back 2 me but I WILL GO TO HIM. David was SECURE & ASSURED that he would see his son in heaven. This man chosen by God himself murdered & committed adultery, Yet the Lord FORGAVE HIM & welcomed him home. We dont look to sin but these things can happen to ANY Christian.
Faithful1223 2 days ago
@Faithful1223 David was sure of his salvation because he repented and turned from his wrong. Anyone can truly be forgiven if they ask and repent. That does not change the fact that one can lose their salvation. The OT states in several places that if a man turn from evil to good that all his evil will not be remembered. Likewise it states that if a man turn from good to evil that all his good will not be remembered. Please read 2nd Peter 2:20-22. What does that passage say to you? GB
mtzion211 2 days ago
@mtzion211 Not ANY 1 can receive forgiveness of their sins unless they're a CHILD of God. A BELIEVER is UNDER the BLOOD. You must be a BELIEVER. Non believers must be BORN AGAIN bc they're ALREADY condemned for not believing on Jesus [John 3:18]. There's a BIG difference. A non believer can ask all day long for God to forgive them their adultery, murder or lying to no avail. They are not born again. They arent His. That's the diff bet a christian who sins AND IS FORGIVEN& one who isnt. contd-->
Faithful1223 2 days ago
@Faithful1223 You used 1 Cor. 6:9 but you didnt continue to the following verse 10 which clearly states," And such WERE some of you: but ye ARE WASHED, but ye ARE SANCITIFIED, but ye ARE JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." Clearly we believers are already redeemed and cleaned. IT IS FINISHED. If and christian sins he has an advocate w/the Father, Jesus Christ. SO what does that imply? CHRISTIANS STILL SIN but the diff is we're UNDER THE BLOOD of Jesus.--contd
Faithful1223 2 days ago
@Faithful1223 You also contradicted yourself in your response about David. You just stated that salvation CAN BE LOST right? but then you just said that David ASKED for forgiveness & he was restored again. So wh/ is it? According to 1Cor. 6:9 SHOULDNT DAVID NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE KINGDOM? Do you see your contradiction? David said RESTORE the JOY of my SALVATION, not RESTORE MY SALVATION[Psalms 51:12]. Youre a LORDSHIP salvationist & that's ANOTHER GOSPEL. Youre depending on ur 'RIGHTEOUS living.
Faithful1223 2 days ago
@Faithful1223 What contradiction? David sinned and repented of that sin. God will always forgive us if we repent and turn from the sin. There is no contradiction.
mtzion211 1 day ago
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@mtzion211 You Said "David sinned and repented of that sin. God will always forgive us if we repent and turn from the sin. There is no contradiction." Thats Exactly Our Point! David wouldn't lose his salvation because he believed in Jesus Only To Save Him. But When David sinned He confessed. Do You even know what is biblical repentance? if not go check out my video on it, because you are confused on that matter.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 Ever studied sins unto death and sins not unto death? What does that passage mean to you?
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Old testament is another covenant so please dont use that on NEW Testament CHRISTIANS, the Church. We as the New testament christians are under GRACE & not LAW keeping for salvation. I hope tht something that has been pointed out in this awesome discussion that will help you to see that God didnt lie when He said we believers are SEALED w/ the Holy Spirit til the day of redemption & to close I use ROMANS 8:38-39. Rest on the Lord dear friend & receive peace,confidence & assurance. BB
Faithful1223 2 days ago
@Faithful1223 I only even used the Old Testament as you used David to back your argument from the beginning.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Another perplexing question for proponents of losing salvation is: If salvation can be lost, that how much sin musts a person commit to lose it? ... a little? ... a lot? ... murder? ... adultery? ... two murders? ... cursing Jesus like Peter did? How ridiculous and unbiblical is the idea that salvation can be lost. Salvation is of God; not man (John 1:10-12). CONTINUE -->
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 --> How can we lose that which wasn't our to give in the first place? If we're not saved by good works; then how can we be lost by bad works? We cannot! The man in 1st Corinthians 3:15 escaped the fires of Hell; but all his works were burned by fire and he had nothing to show for his wasted earthly life. Yet, he went to Heaven to be with His Savior. Also see 1st Corinthians 5:1-5.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Explain This Verse "We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:15-16
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 David didnt confess his sin of his own volition.If Uread carefully GOD SENT SAMUEL 2 "call him out" on his crimes. David thought no one knew his secret sins but God saw them all &God himself told Samuel 2 bring it to his attention so David doesnt even get credit 4 anything. He "got busted" and came clean not of his own volition just like YOU dont get any points with God for trying to live a "sin free" life. You were a sinner saved by grace & your flesh is your flesh is still sinful.
Faithful1223 2 days ago
@Faithful1223 So all these commandments to not sin.....or Jesus saying go and sin no more.....all this is meaningless. So God understands and will just overlook our sin. We are to be sin free of sins unto death...that is spiritual death. We will never be free of all sin as we are less holy than God but we are to be free of sins unto death. The truth will prevail in the end. You keep telling everyone that they are saved and can't lose it. That will be on your head.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Did I write 1 Jn 1:8-9? I've given U BIBLICAL verses. I didnt write them so I think U mean its on JESUS &the APOSTLES head. Your self righteousness wont let you see tht the LORD keeps you. How many sins did it take Adam to commit to be lost? One right? How many have you committed recently? U are contradicting urself. IF you insist on thinking that you have a right to enter heaven b/c you ARENT SINNING THAT BADLY just remember this verse. Luke 18:11. who was justified ? Im secure.
Faithful1223 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 You dont seem 2 comprehend english very well bc I NEVER said that EVERYONE IS SAVED. Where did I say that? I clearly QUOTED John 3:3 that you MUST be born again so NOT EVERYONE IS SAVED. Do you comprehend that part? ONLY those who are born again ARE saved, safe, secure in God's family. You're not born again & dont have the H.Spirit bc You arent fully trusting the Lord ALONE. You clearly demonstrate that you DONT have understanding of the scriptures bc U think U can stop sinning.
Faithful1223 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 This is not about my self righteousness for I am nothing. This is about the truth. The simple truth that a tree is known by it's fruit. Fornicators, adulterers, murderers, liars, etc. are not currently saved and cannot be. That is the truth. They are not backslidden, they are not just losing rewards....they are not saved. Please quit trying to convince me that those that do such things can still be saved.
mtzion211 1 day ago
@mtzion211 "Fornicators, adulterers, murderers, liars, etc. are not currently saved and cannot be." Not Until They BELIEVE IN THE LORD TO GET SAVED. YOU ARE NOT LISTENING.
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. -->
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@BornAgain771 I tried to explain that to this gentlemen but he is blind to himself falling short of the glory of God, even if he thinks b/c he hasnt murdered, or stolen a major electronic item, or robbed a bank, but he doesnt seem to get that HE STILL SINS. Sir, God says it's EVIL to say "Im going away on vacation or next yr I'll do this or that and NOT say GOD WILLING. contd---->>
Faithful1223 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 Do U ALWAYS SAY God willing after every plan you may say to someone? JAMES 4:17 CALLS IT EVIL BOASTING. So UR doing evil. "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it NOT, to him it is SIN. We christians can sin by OMMISSION OR COMMISSION. Do you know what that means? IF you dont DO what you know is right ITS SIN. I KNOW you dont DO whats right EVERY TIME. Thats God's standard of perfection. Jesus 2commands 2 us to KEEP as best we can is Matt. 22:34-40. the ROYAL law.
Faithful1223 1 day ago
@mtzion211 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD" 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 HOW MUCH CLEARER CAN THAT BE
BornAgain771 1 day ago
@mtzion211 Stop trying 2 CONVINCE ME THAT YOU ARENT SINNING EITHER. You LIE, have bad thoughts, etc til this day. You are still human. Your answer that "people like that" cant be saved is pure ARROGANCE & SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS & would INCLUDE U. I guess Paul,David,Peter who DENIED JESUS 3X, Jacob LIED, Moses disobeyed God @Desert, are NOT in heaven since they were BELIEVERS yet STILL COMMITTED AWFUL SINS. My job isnt 2 CONVINCE U [Holy Spirits job] but Im 2 EXPOSE YOUR ERROR. How arrogant of you..
Faithful1223 1 day ago
@Faithful1223 If U are getting angry w/ me a brethren that is sin also. Paul said to put away ANGER. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: EPH4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. Do you bless people that curse U? thats what we are to do & if you dont its sin to the christian. I hope Im makin a point here. UR salvation is lost then.
Faithful1223 1 day ago
So if there's no assurance in salvation then its up to me to keep my salvation but several verses clearly tell us that the Lord preserves you over and over again. If you dont trust in Christ ALONE for your salvation then its faith plus works. Adding to Jesus perfect work with my IMPERFECT works is an insult to Jesus and you have fallen from GRACE. If there is no assurance THEN NO ONE WILL MAKE IT b/c you SIN in thoughts, actions & IF YOU DONT DO what you are suppose to THAT IS SIN TOO. Got it?
Faithful1223 1 week ago
@Faithful1223 Thank you for posting. There is no insult to Jesus in displaying the truth. The truth is simple honestly. God expects his followers to live correct and Christian lives. A tree is known by it's fruit. This is really not complicated but only gets misunderstood when this "imperfect" issue comes up. The Bible teaches that there is a "sin unto death" and a "sin not unto death". Sins such as lying, stealing, murder, adultery, fornication, drunkards...will not inherit the kingdom.GB
mtzion211 4 days ago
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YOU ARE DENYING JESUS CHRIST'S SACRIFICE when you deny that once we're saved we're always saved. Don't you realize that this means you ARE NOT SAVED because you believe it takes something you do (works) to make you saved?!?! PLEASE BEG Jesus to forgive you, and have a child like trust in Jesus to save you from your sins! NOTHING WE DO will ever save us or keep us saved!
Zstrastwa 4 months ago
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OSAS is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Through GRACE by FAITH are ye saved.
Zstrastwa 4 months ago
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@thinkagainism1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
dandom01 4 months ago
@thinkagainismJas 2:19 You believe that there is one God, you do well; even the demons believe and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
dandom01 4 months ago
@thinkagainismEph 5:4 neither baseness, foolish talking, jesting, which are not becoming, but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For you know this, that no fornicator, or unclean person, or covetous one (who is an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
dandom01 4 months ago
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@dandom01 OSAS is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Through GRACE by FAITH are ye saved.
Zstrastwa 4 months ago
@mtzion211God bless you! keep preaching the truth.
dandom01 4 months ago
@dandom01 Thank you and God bless you! I invite you to participate in a blog I have at bibleknowledgeonline.
mtzion211 4 months ago
@dandom01 You can't lose your salvation that is completely against scripture. Salvation is secure and I can show you. This is one of the worst lies of chrsitianity.
thinkagainism 4 months ago
@thinkagainism Eternal security is a lie from the pit. I have studied this through and through. I have studied all the passages for and against. You can lose your salvation.
mtzion211 3 days ago
k if GOD promise eternal live it means eternal and he dint say if you sin you will lose your salvation show me in the bible where
boricua796 5 months ago
Are you saying, that if you are saved,and then willingly sin for a while, you have lost your salvation forever no matter how sincere you about about Him later?
If so, I'm doomed. I was saved for years, then sinned, badly, for months.Now I am on my face, never been so broken- for once I love His law and word completely..All I want to do now is lay my life down fully to Him - But as you say, it's too late for me, I am doomed. In fact if I don't have a heart attack from fear tonite I'll be shocked
Sven3xs 5 months ago
@Sven3xs Hello and thank you for posting. No, I am not saying that you cannot repent. Anyone that has turned from God always has a chance to repent. Repentance is not as easy sometimes as it sounds though. To leave the Lord and then think we can come back at any time is misleading. Yes we can come back anytime we get a true dose of repentance but leaving the Lord is playing with fire because who knows if one will ever come back. Either way if you are repentant you can always come back. :)
mtzion211 5 months ago
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Sven3xs 5 months ago
@Sven3xs Just keep the faith and do not sin willfully. There are sins unto death and sins not unto death, as the bible describes. Sins not unto death are things that are less holy than God....for instance patience or humility. These things are sins, but not unto spiritual death. A tree is known by it's fruit. If your life is producing good fruit and you are not willfully sinning than do not let the devil convince you otherwise. GB
mtzion211 5 months ago
@mtzion211 , Thank you for your reply sir.
What has me so frightened quite honestly, is the level of my sins, they were not small sins, not at all. Serious enough that I'm far too ashamed to speak of them. Is my new found dedication in vain? After years of nothing capped off by months of serious sin? Peter seems to say so.
This is the horror of the war I wage inside me. I don't mention it obviously when I'm trying to speak the gospel to someone. .I don't want them to even think that direction.
Sven3xs 5 months ago
@Sven3xs I will say this to you. Whatever the sins, God is able to forgive. This much I am sure of from scripture. I would not dwell on past sins. If you have truly repented and asked forgiveness then just as Jesus said,"Go and sin no more." Jesus does not condemn the sinner but simply tells us to be sorry and turn from those sins. Again, past sins are not nearly as important as future sins. GB
mtzion211 5 months ago
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Sven3xs 5 months ago
@mtzion211<Thank you sir for your answer.
Think not that my problem is that I don't believe you, to the contrary, my problem is that I believe you wholeheartedly. And I'll be honest with you in saying that I believe it so much, that I can seldom breathe properly lately, and that's Not a figure of speech @ all.
Right now my life consists of fighting for Him, that others may Never experience what I am going through now.
And, in my humble opinion, sticking my head in the OSAS sand, is not safe.
Sven3xs 5 months ago
@mtzion211 I can see what you're saying in a way about leaving the Lord & then thinking we can come back anytime. Its because it gets more difficult and the heart gradually hardens when we keep playing 'games.' Get saved, live for G*d. Then backslide. Repent, backslide. Etc etc. One starts to doubt their own motives, but G*d sees the heart. I have always wondered if because of that, G*d doesn't see down the road in advance- and sear the hearts of those He KNOWS won't come back anyways.
recyclecongress 2 months ago
@mtzion211 Thought #2: If it were too late for someone and they played games too long... they wouldn't care about their soul at that point anyhow. Much less repent. Right? Because if the answer is anything other than yes, or if it's more complicated than that.... then that would mean that G*d was NOT so forgiving. Only for an opportune time and that's it. I would like to think that as long as one knows they're doing wrong, and repents...that they're not 'seared' yet.
recyclecongress 2 months ago
I know people who call themselves 'Christians' while going out and doing whatever they feel like. I know this topic is much deeper than our words, but I have always taken the position that if someone was once truly 'saved,' even if they turn away, God will go after that person. If someone falls into sin, God's grace is always ready to find them again. So in that sense, I still don't believe like if you or I sin in this way or have a season of unbelief, our salvation is lost.. Cont'd
Drooblemeister 5 months ago
"Many believe once saved always saved." I am one of them because I know that if it were up to me to 'keep' my salvation, I wouldn't really have much hope of getting to heaven! For those of you who are trusting in Christ for your salvation but think you might end up in hell, I love you and respect you, but i hope you can see if you can 'lose' your salvation, you're not really saved yet, because it comes through death. Ephesians 2:5 says 'We are seated w/ Christ in heavenly places." God bless,
Drooblemeister 5 months ago
@Drooblemeister Thank you for posting! There is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death. As I am sure you are aware the OT has many physical events that point to a spiritual event in the NT. There were sins that you would be killed for under the law and some that you would not. This is applies spiritually in the NT. You will not lose your salvation for being less merciful or patient than God, this is all of us. You will lose your salvation for certain sins. GB
mtzion211 5 months ago
@mtzion211 I would like to welcome you to bibleknowledgeonline. We have many blogs. Your insight would be welcomed. GB
mtzion211 5 months ago
@Drooblemeister Thank you for posting! There is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death. As I am sure you are aware the OT has many physical events that point to a spiritual event in the NT. There were sins that you would be killed for under the law and some that you would not. This is applies spiritually in the NT. You will not lose your salvation for being less merciful or patient than God, this is all of us. You will lose your salvation for certain sins. GB
mtzion211 5 months ago
No worries.. Let me just say I understand why some people, including yourself might believe this from Scripture. I guess besides Jesus' reference to 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit' being an unforgivable sin (which I'm still uncertain about what this specifically entails), I'm not sure which specific sins the Bible refers to that would qualify as 'losing' your salvation. If we can lose our salvation, then are we truly saved yet? Where does grace come into play? Blessings,
Drooblemeister 5 months ago
@Drooblemeister Thank you again. I appreciate honest Christian debate without malice. The sins that would be unto spiritual death are murder, lying, stealing, drunkenness, adultery, fornication, etc. The Bible states that those that do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God....which is now present. I have known many people that were ministers, teachers, etc. that turned away from God. I am not convinced that they were not saved. The sow that was washed returned to the mire. GB
mtzion211 5 months ago
Cont'd but that these verses are speaking of those who are already lost, the world lives in this way, a true believer can fall into anyone of these sins, and if they are God's true sheep, they will be disgusted and turn away after they have sinned.. My understanding is that God will not let go of a person who has become adopted as His own, your friends that have fallen away, I believe if they were true, God will bring them back again, I'm trusting God for that w/ my own friend.. Peace,
Drooblemeister 5 months ago
@Drooblemeister Thank you again for posting. I believe that a tree is known by it's fruit. Also how many times does one have to commit adultery to be an adulterer. Once. If a person truly repents of any sin they can be forgiven. God is always there willing to forgive an honest heart. We must be careful with that though as true repentance is easier said than done once a heart is hardened. In my opinion we will lose our salvation by committing sins unto death. GB and thanks again.
mtzion211 5 months ago
Sorry, just one more thought to add to that, besides certain Scripture references that I believe point to us being saved now, eternally His, I just wanted to add a thought I heard from a pastor, "If the only way for you to be free from sin is through death, then Jesus is not your Savior, death is, because death set you free from sin." I would through in the word saved in this sentence =) I see you're saying these things w/ pure motives, so even though I don't agree, I still honor that in you..
Drooblemeister 5 months ago
@Drooblemeister The simple message is that a tree is known by it's fruit. Many profess salvation while committing acts of adultery, stealing, etc. We must understand that there are sins unto death and sins not unto death as the Bible states. To everyone, please do not tell me that you are a child of God while such sins are being committed. We cannot help but be less holy than God, we all are. These are sins not unto death. GB
mtzion211 5 months ago
Sorry, just one more thought to add to that, besides certain Scripture references that I believe point to us being saved now, eternally His, I just wanted to add a thought I heard from a pastor, "If the only way for you to be free from sin is through death, then Jesus is not your Savior, death is, because death set you free from sin." I would through in the word saved in this sentence =) I see you're saying these things w/ pure motives, so even though I don't agree, I still honor that in you..
Drooblemeister 5 months ago
@Drooblemeister My Brother, mtzion211 is confused on this subject by adding works to salvation. For More info go check out my videos. He's not understanding we keep the commandments of God Because we love him, not because keeping them will save us. if you read all the comments i posted i destroyed all his beliefs on losing salvation, in which he has no answers for but questioning me what certain verses mean. to my understanding he shouldnt be teaching if he's looking for answers.
BornAgain771 1 day ago
Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev_2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
Good Job brother! The poison doctrine of eternal security would suggest that they don't need a Bible which is full of warnings to Christians. Especially such warnings as Revelation 2, 3 , where the Spirit is speaking to the Church. Not a building, not unbelievers among the Church but the Church, the Body of Christ and His warning was that if they failed to overcome their names would be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life and be cast into the lake of fire.
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago