Re: Tom Homophobe

[JohananRaatz]

Court challenges program = governmental bias towards the politically correct agenda = not acceptable.

[NathanielChristopher]

God forbid a government should defend minorities!

[JohananRaatz]

No defending minorities is alright alone with the majority, but God forbid that the government should promote minorities to a status superior to the majority.

I've read Rawls and I've researched the critical theorists and that is their intent.

Professional victims are parasites on the system that infringe on the rights of others.

[collegeguy2009]

patriarchy = dog eat dog capitalist, go fuck your self, violent, war mongering society

let the sacred feminine have a go at running the world seeing how patriarchy failed hard.

[Z8nate]

The sacred feminine presided over the neolithic stone age for a long, long time with not a whole lot of progress. It took a Patriarchy to thrust us out of the stone age, into city building, the bronze age, the iron age, the industrial age, the modern age, and the information age. I think progress can speak for itself on which system is better. Patriarchy demands its men to behave, get educated, get gumption, bring home the bacon, and keep commitments. What's wrong with that?

[razorsedge95]

meh homophobes are just gays and bies in denile

[collegeguy2009]

i will throw my shoes at tom lukiwski hai... :)

[Im4Reil]

Just for starters lets pick apart our national anthem.

Our home and native land- who's land, we the people or the govenments?

The true north strong and free - How strong is the north and what limits of freedom are we talking about, gay people's rights and freedoms? Freedom for who exactly??? ect...

The bottom line is that,we all have to wakeup and smell the coffee and come out of the closet for everyone's rights and freedoms.Either that or sing a new anthem that speaks the real truth.

[Im4Reil]

A video made 16 or 17 yrs ago does not institute just petty stupidity, and oh well, that was then, this is now.First impressions are the most important to alot of people.Homophobia is clearly evident,lest we forget gay people are voters,gay people are taxpayers,gay people really care about this province and country.Why bite the hands that contributes to feed the government & country like everybody else.People need to think about the majority not the segregation of the gay minority.

[brojulien]

Were you screwing the cat--or just putting your finger in his anus??

[NathanielChristopher]

Sounds like you need a lesson in basic anatomy!

[NathanielChristopher]

How come?

[NathanielChristopher]

Oh dear, it seems like one of Tom's people have found their way to the internet!

[gardneross]

Did you hear about the marriage commissioner in Saskatchewan who refused to grant a CIVIL marriage between two men? The Saskatchewan human rights tribunal ruled that he was illegally discriminating and awarded a $2,500 settlement against the commissioner... why do these things keep happening in my province!?! How embarrassing!

[aussielager]

Truth be told, it is, but I have somewhat of a different perspective...or so I think.

For the sake of clarity, I DO NOT support the view that glbt are "sinners" who must be condemned and ridiculed. From my own point of view everyone is a sinner, regardless of sexual orientation or creed.

That's a bit off topic, but I feel that many Christians treat glbt ppl like they are less than human, which is completely wrong and hypocritical. I don't wish for you to have that view of THIS Christian

[aussielager]

First off, I honestly appreciate your composure during this conversation. The reason I say that is because I understand this issue is likely near and dear to your heart and when someone disagrees it is probably not easy.

In terms of gay rights, I do not agree with homosexuality, which means I'm also opposed to things like gay marriage. I have a real problem with homosexual acts, which I believe are wrong, but your questions have piqued my interest, so I'll keep thinking about it.

[NathanielChristopher]

I appreciate your honesty and how you express yourself respectfully. Thanks. Is your opposition to glbt issues based on religious grounds?

[aussielager]

Homophobia just a word, it doesn't mean anything. The word was just made to make those who don't agree look like they're intolerance is based on fear and irrational thoughts.

The Oxford dictionary defines homophobia as "hatred or fear of homosexuals", so that seems to disagree with your definition. I guess the problem is the word is not an accurate reflection of what views people hold, but the gay community seems to use the word almost as a blanket statement.

[NathanielChristopher]

So what would you discribe intolerance of glbt rights as? What rational objection could one have to extending equal rights to glbt people?

[aussielager]

You mentioned when "they" (conservative party)said "you dirty faggots"....

Uh, they didn't say that. A single politician said that on a video tape years ago.

Just because the conservatives do not support same sex marriage, all gay/lesbian rights, etc does not make them homophobic.

It appears that whenever someone does not agree with homosexuality they are labelled as being "homophobic".

[NathanielChristopher]

Well, you hit the hammer on the nail buddy. When someome is opposed to gay rights or shuns GLBT people they are homophobic. No ifs ands or buts. We live in a free society, so they have every right to be homophobes if they so choose. What I find interesting is that so many homophobes can't stand being called just that.

[collegeguy2009]

look buddy... homofobes do nott belong in a free, western society. they are a national security thrett that they kill n assassinate gays n lesbians, vandalize n blow up our own businesses, homes, communities.

[NathanielChristopher]

Okay... NOBODY has commented on my cat! None of you, you are all catphobic! :)

[entropydok]

Hi NC, Let me see if you are a reasonable person. Phobia means "a condition of fear" [and absolutely nothing else]. I think Mr. Lukiwski was guilty of hatred towards homosexuals not fear of homosexuals. This word "homophobia" is commonly incorrectly used to describe hatred of homosexuals. Why don't you call it "homohatred"? What do you think? By the way I do not fear or hate your cat. One may hate house cats with bad personalities and respect but fear dangerous cats like cougars.

[NathanielChristopher]

I agree with you re: the word "homophobia". When I think of "phobia" I too, imagine a "fear" or unhealthy aversion to something. I'm not sure how the term came to be associated with hatred of or discrimination towards gay people, but all the dictionaries I have state that that's what the word means. English is a funny, inconsistent language! A new word would make sense, but I think the term "homophobia" has become too widespread to replace overnight.

[aivitca]

I'm not a catphobia. They have the right to live as long as they don't disturb me ! If cat want to fuck, they have to do in a private manner so my eyes and my mind and my ideology are not completely disturb. But I have some cats who are friends of mine. They are so cute, so funny. Lot of them have a feminin walk and their fur is very different than the dog's one. :-)

[NathanielChristopher]

Hahha!

[entropydok]

Hi NC, I have some questions for you. Did the NDP invade privacy when it took that tape [clearly not their property] view it and show to the media? Are the NDP's actions honourable? If you left a private videotape behind somewhere would you like your privacy respected?

[aivitca]

entropydok,

You're right, this personal videotape shouldn't have been shown to the media. Well this can be an other discussion if you want.

But public people must know exactly that there always be a risk that their "personal file" can be reopen..... strategically.

What's happen if this guy have written such a speech in an anti-gay newpaper ? Do we have to burn all the newspapers after a predetermined period, let's say... after 6 months so nobody can reread 16 years after what you thought ?

[aivitca]

The method of publihing the video is certainly not correct, but the facts are: He said all that. And you can kill someone and say after "Oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't want to"... the fact is that you killed someone.

Do you think that, if this man would know he could be catch 16 years later he would tell that? Certainly not. People are always sorry after they have been caught. Bizarre

So if you want to open a new discussion for the NPD privacy invasion it's ok, but please, don't mix the cards here.

[NathanielChristopher]

Well... I don't leave my incriminating video tapes in old offices: mine go directly to youtube! They really should have done a better job of clearing out their office. The NDP were well within their rights of viewing and releasing the tapes that were left in their offices. I think the the public good of exposing this leader as a raging homophobe outweighs the Sasatchewan Party's "right to privacy".

[entropydok]

Hi NC, the invasion of privacy [the viewing of the tape] had to preceed the knowledge that this was a "hate tape". I don't open my neighbour's mail when it is accidentally delivered to my house with the thought there could be some criminal activity going on.

In my city a gay man was hurt when someone snooped around his house and uncovered some private videotapes. Don't you fear governments invading your privacy? Why was it OK for the NDP to snoop? Aren't privacy rights important?

[NathanielChristopher]

Well, they didn't invade the Saskatchewan Party's office. The office had been vacated and cleared out so the NDP could move in. By leaving their old stuff in the office past the date they were supposed to be out the Saskatchewan Party abandoned it. Therefore, it became property of the new occupants. So no, they didn't invade anyone's privacy.

[entropydok]

A personal videotape is like a letter. If it is not yours forward it to the person who it belongs to. If you don't believe in property rights and honour I can't help you.

Is it fair to say that the only rights you believe in are the ones where you personally benefit? Well, don't feel bad, that is where the world is going.

[NathanielChristopher]

A misdelivered letter has a name and address on it. From what I've seen these video tapes were left in some sort of suitcase along with the old camera. It was abandoned, left behind. Not misdelivered. The camera and tapes became property of the new occupants of that ofice so they had every right to do whatever they wanted to with it.

[entropydok]

So then you think it is OK to open a letter addressed to an old roommate of yours who used to live with you but has since moved away. By your "logic", he should have told everyone of his new address and by not doing so abandoned his letter to you.

By the way, all videotapes are labelled. [This one probably said " Saskatchewan Party election party video" which means it is the property of the Saskatchewan Party.]

Why can't you see that you are being unfair?

Please rethink your position.

[NathanielChristopher]

This is not a sealed letter, but an abandoned f camera and some old tapes. And no, it wouldn't have said "Saskatchewan Party" on it - the Saskatchewan Party didn't come into being until 1997, six years after the video was made.

[entropydok]

The exact name of the party is not important. You missed my point. Clearly my morals and your morals are different. I take satisfaction that the other contributor to this site [aivitca] wrote " publishing the video is certainly not correct". You sir have the minority opinion. You know, you would make a great NDPer since you both lack integrity.

[NathanielChristopher]

Wow! Real crusader for the rights of old video tapes! There's a big stack of old beta tapes from the '80s down at the Salvation Army in my neighbourhood begging for their knight in shining armour to come rescue them! Will you be their saviour? :)

[entropydok]

Actually, I am a Doctor [a UBC grad] and I study human behavior. I have good knowledge about lesbians and bi women but not about gays. My name "Entropy dok" is significant. Human behavior disperses into many forms [ like entropy in thermodynamics]. I look at the environment for causes of specific behaviors. Your defensiveness comes from your belief that you are hated. Past comments on this site indicate that. I can help your cause but you choose to argue and be silly. I mean no harm.

[NathanielChristopher]

Ooh! You just get more and more entertaining as you go! By the way, there is a "u" in "behaviour". Keep commenting! I love it! :)

[entropydok]

"Behavior" is the American spelling. [Color/colour, center/centre,..]

Congrats, you have touched on a huge interest of mine - the entropy of language. Here is an example, Latin American Spanish speakers laugh [laff] at Spanish from Spain because of their accent. They have a hard time making the "S" sound. A former Spanish king with a speech defect couldn't say "S" so Spaniards say "thinco" not cinco, grathias not gracias. Languages diverge, religions diverge, sexuality diverges- ENTROPY.

[Bermash00]

I don't understand why homophobes say that being gay isn't natural when many animals in the wild have homosexual relations. To name a couple... Bottle nose Dolphins, and Canadian geese. They don't only have "gay sex" they also form life long relationships. It's natural! Why doesn't anyone see that!!!

[aivitca]

bermash00, because it's more easier to see what people want to see.

Don't ask people to become suddently intelligent and to have a minimum of critic sens... :-)

They feel intelligent the way they are... why should they have to change ?

[Bermash00]

I agree... why should anyone have to change... like homosexuals. why should they change just to please everyone who doesn't like it.

[RazaeFury]

YOu can't go around calling everyone who disagrees with you a homophobe. I have no problem with gay people. The problem is forcign it into peoples faces. Itself it is a cause of homophobia. Those people are trying to force change and a value shift into people who would rather go about it slowly. I've known people who have hated homosexuals completely but came over over time. It has to be gradual, by forcing it at people there is bound to be a reaction. People get pissed and lash out.

[NathanielChristopher]

I'm curious, what do you qualify as "forcing it into peoples' faces"?

[RazaeFury]

I know I sounded harsh I just mean that a lot of people still have strongly held views against it being out in the public. But announcing it and condemning them for having those views is like saying they were raised wrong. And nobody wants to think they're wrong. I think gays and lesbians shoudl have equal rights, but I think some discretion would be wise. Gay pride parades are good things but they ask a lot of people who have been raised their entire lives to think one way.

[RazaeFury]

You provoke a reaction among these people. It isn't that they are bad, they just believe one way to be right because thats how they were raised. And trying to force them to make a complete turn is bound to provoke a response.

[aivitca]

RazaeFury, you're right by saying that overacting to homophobes provoke an inadequat response. But do we have to not react at all ?

Do some gays fought to obtain the same right for nothing ?

Is it acceptable nowdays to treat a black people "Negro" ???? There are some laws (and 16 years ago, they were already written!) and EVERYBODY has to respect them. Why is it so difficult for homophobes to understand that there is more than one sexual orientation on this planet ?

[RazaeFury]

But I never said not to react. But right now there are a lot of people against it. The best thing is to force a gradual change. People that have problems with gay people are those who watch them on television. They love them as long as they can forget they exist. It's a bad thing, but it's reality. And if you want everything to go away it has to be gradual. Even equal race rights took years. You have to build on what came before to gradually bring people over. You can't just hit them with it.

[RazaeFury]

just because theres a law against it doesn't mean everyone accepts it. Race rights in the united states weren't completely fleshed out for 70-80 years after slavery was abolished. Things take time and by being strong against those people you force them to react. And if they're reacting they're not taking your side. It would make them feel like they are less and like they lost and nobody wants to feel that way.

[NathanielChristopher]

I think mainstream Canadian society has progressed a long way in the last 20 years. Everyone has a gay family member or friend, and the idea of gay bashing hits a lot more close to home than it used to. Now, people can hold whatever views they want about us, but if they express those views with the intention of harming, silencing or intimidating us we have every duty to speak up and fight back.

[RazaeFury]

Exactly it's important to keep it in perspective though. It was an office get together and everyone knows that when people are drunk they say stupid things. This was ages ago and he's apologised for it. It could be possible that he's one of those people who have come around and grown to accept it. Frankly it's just a drunk man making an offhand remark. I don't support the conservatives, but he shouldn't be pissed on for something he said to someone in private. We all have our slip ups.

[collegeguy2009]

amen... 0:) 0:)

[aivitca]

Ok, so how do you explain that in 2008 we still here that homosexuality is not normal (probably meaning not the majority, or condamned by any religion), that homosexuals did choose their sexual orientation (meaning, they have to assume all the trouble with belongs to this orientation, or shut them up), that homosexuality is a disease....

If we accept all these prejudices, then we will never be able to live a "normal" life.

[aivitca]

At 40 y/o I can assume my orientation, I can fight all these homophobic situations, but I think to all these teenager who have to come out... and are afraid to face the reaction of the majority.

If we don't open disagree those speech, then we send a big number of these teenager to a big stress for nothing.

It's normal to be gay and it can very fun too.

[RazaeFury]

Yes it's something that should be fought, if it were a problem. It was an offhand remark made to some colleagues. People are getting upset due to a dislike of the conservatives but we should fight it where it's a problem. We shouldn't let our political ideology rule what we see as a problem. Theres a lot worse discrimination going on against gays RIGHT NOW. We should fight the stuff in the present and in the open, not the stuff that's already happened behind closed doors.

[a1mint]

The Conservatives win a lot of votes from the Christian zealots with their anti gay rhetoric.

[aivitca]

My last 2 comments were a respond to crew101soldia.

[NathanielChristopher]

Don't you think it's interesting how the homophobes come out of the woodwork on youtube! Thanks for your comments :)

[aivitca]

Of course. Didn't you here the newly "past" prejudice : homosexuals choose their sexual orientation, so they have to assume homophobia or change their sexual orientation !

Who the hell will choose to be homosexual in a homophobic world ? Do they think we are that stupid ?

Did anyone ask black people to assume the racism based on the skin color ? Never ! Some did fight the racism because it's simple the expression of the hate of a minority of uneducated people, as the homophobia is !

[aivitca]

didn't you hear... (not here, sorry)

[crew101soldia]

There is no reason for Tom Lukiwski to resign or get fired, he was just expressing his thoughts and beliefs, he did not do anything illegal, and besides in some parts of the world such as the Middle East gay people get executed.

[NathanielChristopher]

I never suggested that he should resign or be fired. I think you're posting on the wrong page.

[crew101soldia]

shut up you fagitue

[NathanielChristopher]

Why are homophobes such bad spellers?

[gtey]

No, he actually meant to call you a "fatigue," as in army fatigues. You, sir, are a military uniform, with lovely pockets, buttons, and embellishments.

How does it feel to be a garment? ;) ;)

[NathanielChristopher]

oh no! Here comes the ironing and folding! AAAAAAAAAH!

[aivitca]

Great you're probably one of those who wanted canadian (or any) gay people to be executed ? Right ?

If so, you think that the Canadian Constitution gives you the freedom of speech to say that ? Right ?

Freedom is a responsability that not a lot of people can assume. Who take responsability have to assume consequences. You probably not one who can't assume the responsability of this right.

[aivitca]

And Yes he did something illegal.... he discriminated people based on their sexual orientation which is forbidden by the canadian Constitution. They are the "A" and they are the "B". If you don't see any discrimination here, then...... return to school or look for a dictionnary for a definition of discrimination.

[gtey]

Yes, but these other parts of the world also have different core values, laws, and beliefs. It's comparing two totally different things. Are you suggesting, then, that we should also execute gay people, just like a small few Middle Eastern countries?

I just look at the screen name, and its inclusion of the word "soldia" ("soldier"), which suggests to me a certain militaristic and perhaps subversive mentality.

[aivitca]

There is only one response for homophobic comments. Ignore them.

There will be elections soon. You know for who you will vote now.. right ?

"faggot"'s votes can make a difference in the final result. Democracy is the people's power, not the politic's or the money one.

Every single person can change something in this country. Juste have the guts to try.

[LaCokaNostra81]

its always going to be racist, sexist, homophobics. just deal with it and live your fucking life. stop trying to make this a pc word

[NathanielChristopher]

Yee haw! Wanna come shoot some cans with me before we barbeque the spam on that rigged up electric chair?

[dynastypaint45]

while that's probably true, do you think we should still condone it?

if we accept racism, sexism and homophobia as just a natural part of life, it will only escalate, to a degree when it's suddenly alright to be prejudiced.

[collegeguy2009]

lol... ur a sick nigga bastard. nigga.

[NathanielChristopher]

Yeah, you're not the first one to say so!

[taylerp123]

Sorry what troubles me is that you think the court challenges program was axed to attack the gay rights movement.

How much sense did it make for the government to pay to have their own laws challenged in court? This program was unanimously voted out by all parties for good reason.

Just try to stick to accurate facts to argue your case.

[NathanielChristopher]

This program was axed in their 2006 budget, all parties supported it because they didn't want to trigger an election at that time.

This program allowed many minority groups, most notably the GLBT community, Acadians and Franco-Ontarians, a potent vehicle to challenge discriminatory legislation. Dion has said if elected, he would reinstate the program.

[yomomatsu]

This dude is definately a "B"

[NathanielChristopher]

Well, duh!

[scottyross00]

Tommy Douglas is different from Lukiwski, go to thescottross(dot)blogspot(dot)­com or google: thescottross

[gardneross]

I couldn't agree more, thanks for putting this out there on YouTube. I'm from Saskatchewan and we're not all like that, this incident (and other recent events) are really embarrassing for the province. Shame on us all for, on a day to day basis, letting these kinds (racist, sexist, homophobic...) comments slip by! I'm resolved to speak up from now on and I challenge everyone else out there to do the same!

[NathanielChristopher]

I don't think that any intelligent person would think this bastard is an accurate reflection of the average Saskatchewanian. I for one appreciate the fact that so many progressive movements in this country have their roots in Saskatchewan. Universal healthcare, for example, is your baby!

[gardneross]

And are we ever proud of it, health care that is! If I'm not mistaken, Saskatchewan was one of the first, if not the first, provinces to include sexual orientation in the provincial human rights code!

[NathanielChristopher]

And the only place to have a statue of Tommy Douglas!

[collegeguy2009]

amen... progressists, libertarians, free-thinkers, socialists of Canada must be vigilant and stand up against religious fanaticists n fascists in Canada n de USA.

[NathanielChristopher]

Fuckin' eh! Notice how they often hide behind the anonymity of the internet? They rarely show their face in public. They are cowardly little pussies with absolutely no influence. They don't use reason, intellect or debate to drive home their points, but pathetic attempts at intimidation.

[kelbale]

Can't say I'd disagree with any of that and I like to think I'm fairly logical

[johnjfaux]

The man has apologized and it was a long time ago. The liberals lionized Pierre Trudeau at their convention. I would suggest reading "Young Trudeau: Son of Quebec, Father of Canada, 1919-1944" which shows that he wrote fascist essays,denounced the declaration of war on Germany and even put on an anti-semetic play, which was successful. Trudeau even had a nazi helmet that he wore while biking around montreal during the war. I think that is worse than saying faggot and apologizing for it.

[NathanielChristopher]

Even if Trudeau did those things he later went on to champion the greatest advance in Canadian human rights history: the Charter. This Lukiwski guy, on the other hand, is a member of a government hellbent on eroding the rights and freedoms of GLBT people. He's not sorry he said it - he's sorry he was caught.

[niccrant]

He made the comment 16 years ago and people change. Yes I'm gay and I know a lot of people who have grown up a lot in 16 years. Sure it was bad but 16 years ago. I myself think differently today compared to 16 years ago.

[NathanielChristopher]

Sort of like how you think differently today from when you posted those other comments on Youtube, eh? :)

[schnits]

Well said.

[RapidFire40]

Fuck political correctness. Call it the way you see it Lukiwski.

[flatbily]

lukiwski= fascist

[collegeguy2009]

amen... :)

[Flipper42]

Why are you Homos so scared of something that is nothing more than off the cuff narrative diatribes? The Conservatives have been in power in the last 2 years and do you think they would roll back anyone's rights?

Dirty Faggots, I haven't heard that in a long time......

[NathanielChristopher]

Why are you homophobes so scared of getting your facts straight? I'd suggest you watch the original video again. Mr. Lukiwski said "homosexual faggots" not "dirty faggots".

[FringeNorth]

Yes but they also haven't done anything to forward human rights either, and a lot still has to be done.

Oh and for the record they do apose many human rights. Just recently the Harper gov refused to recognise acess to clean drinking water as a basic human right. That may seem a little disconnected from this topic, but it shows the kind of mentality they have.

The advancement of equality and basicly human rights is not on the conservattive agenda, and this video only reenforces that

[gtey]

They have made efforts to roll back human rights. They took a stab at re-opening the equal rights marriage discussion, after the previous Liberal government had passed it, and the House of Commons voted down their motion.

They abandoned the Kelowna Accord, which was a huge step forward in supporting this country's First Nations peoples; and they have done nothing to try and replace the program.

So, yes, they HAVE tried to roll back people's rights. That's the answer to your question.

[gtey]

Yay! I already got a thumbs-down for stating two facts. People sure do hate when people use facts to backup an arguement. Down with facts!

[NathanielChristopher]

Haha!

[orpheuscorp]

I agree with you Nathaniel. This guy should resign. Chances are, if Harper wants to preserve political credibility, he'll fire the guy. This isn't the first time this has happened in the Conservative caucus.

[Flipper42]

Oh Boo Hoo! The bad olde Conservative something that offends me. Hey, good thing we're not the Taliban or some IslamoFascists, they would allow you to LIVE!

[NathanielChristopher]

Hmm... was that supposed to resemble an English sentence?

[Flipper42]

Yeah, spelling mistake - It's suppose to go like this:

Oh Boo Hoo! The bad olde Conservative SAID something that offends me. Hey, good thing we're not the Taliban or some IslamoFascists, they wouldn't allow you to LIVE!

There, the mistake is corrected.

[fudgepackerbob]

Get over yourself.

[NathanielChristopher]

My first Youtube hater! Woo hoo!

[FringeNorth]

grats on your youtube mildstone

[NathanielChristopher]

Thanks! Hopefully there'll be more to come - keeps things interesting!