BTW Monaco is maybe the greatest F1 track...but it's not the greatest driver challenge of all..Pikes peak hill climb and nordschleife was the greatest driving challenge of all...i know, pikes peak even isn't F1 track, same for nordschleife now, but those tracks are much more difficult than monaco...also today's rally tracks are still more difficult than F1 tracks...
@denJS You know what would make pikes peak even better? Usually people compete in a Pikes Peak Hillclimb. They should have a Pikes Peak Downhill change... We all know Downhill is A LOT harder than a hill climb. And if senna did Pikes Peak he would've raped it. Senna specialized with turbo charged cars LOL
@c312eal schumacher came 3rd in his first full season in f1, have to say senna and prost were better drivers at this stage but arguably the third best (better than mansell i would say). in 1994 he was champion and the best in the sport after senna died and prost retied. from 1994-2006 michael was the best. always finishing in top 3 in the championship (unless disqualified '97). that is consistency and no driver will ever match 12 years as the best which is more impressive than 7 titles!!!
@JamesHol100 Schumacher is definitely one of the best drivers of all time. To say he wasn't is just stupid. Yes he did cheat a few times, but the guy was REALLY smart. If I had to choose 3 drivers to be on a racing team. Senna, Prost, and Schumacher. Senna for the aggressiveness, Prost the Professor, and Schumi. But no matter what I believe Senna > Schumi. Regardless of the number of titles, those are only statistics. Senna was in an environment with tougher competition unlike Schumi
@c312eal i think it is unfair to say senna had tougher competition. racing drivers are racing drivers are racing drivers. they go throught the same karts, lower formulae, get to f1. schumacher was just so much better than anyone else in his era, he dominated his era more than senna did - because prost has more wins, more tiles and more FASTEST LAPS. if senna was the fastest racing driver surely he would have fastest laps to go with the pole positions he has got?
@JamesHol100 To name a few of the driver's Senna was up against. Prost & Mansell etc. These were legendary drivers. Hall of famers so I would say Senna had tougher competition. Schumi barely had anyone good against him. Talking about fastest laps. Senna beat Prost at a time attack in Monaco. Prost driving the same car, on the same team was beaten by 3 SECONDS by Senna. A legendary driver like Prost beaten by 3 seconds in the same car. What about Schumi? Oh yeah, Barrichello had to let schumi win
@c312eal senna had prost as a teammate and as mclaren have always had equal drivers. that was a one of for senna. every teammate had to let senna win in the same way as schumacher, fangio, clark and all the greats so get that out of your head that schuey was different and only won because of contracts. because teams want there most likely driver to win the title picking up the points. there are always top drivers in f1, they follow the same routes to get there so ability of eras is similar.
@JamesHol100 ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Have you seen Senna block the crap out of Prost and Schumi with a under powered car just so his teammate can make a get away? What Bar and Schumi did at Ferrari was an EMBARASSMENT FOR F1. You're actually defending what Ferrari and Schumi did... WOW This is racing, the best driver should win, it's not a theatre where everything is staged!
@c312eal senna and prost was different as they were the best two but mcalren always do that (alo ham) they always let their drivers race at the start of the year (exc australia 97)but yes. i am defending ferrari because its a team sport. moss had to hand his car to fangio to win, the from 1950-2010 is massive. i can see why ppl beat up on ferrari and schuey because of the way they did it - but everyone does it tho. like it or not - this is a team sport.
@JamesHol100 Team sport with each driver going for their OWN title. Regardless Ferrari was going to 1-2 in that race so constructor wise it was the same to ferrari. The call ferrari made was horrible. You can't use that excuse of team sport on that ocassion. Senna wasn't allowed to win by team decisions. You ever seen him blocking Prost and Schumi so that his teammate could make a 8 second get away? Not everyone does it. You work together as a team but drivers still compete against each other.
@JamesHol100 I think without a doubt Senna was the greatest. Even Schumi said it himself. I quote "I too, say Senna was the best" "Senna is king" Schumi is definitely a good driver but not as good as Senna, he raced in underpowered cars and made Schumi and Prost look like nothing in the rain. Don't forget 1993 Donnington Park. 5th position, blocked by schumi. Proceeds to overtake Schumi&Prost and moves into 1st place in the rain with slower car. Stop just looking at stats.
@c312eal well schuey would hardly say "yes, im the best" would he? senna was the rainmaster there is no denying, hamilton the greatest overtaker i have seen but schuey had the overall talent. as murray walker said, schuey at barca 96 was more impressive than senna 93, and i think hamilton silverstone 08 was more impressive too. in 93 senna had a faster car than schuey... schuey won i bad cars. you say senna won it bad cas but schuey did. schuey rarely had the best part you just think of 00-04...
@JamesHol100 LOL Well it wasn't just schumi. Almost all the the ppl in F1 say Senna was the best. If you think silverstone and barca 96 was better than donnington 93 then Senna wouldn't be rainmaster at all. You really think overtaking 4 ppl in the rain on the 1st lap with a slower car is easy? Donnington 93 was the best display of rain driving ever. If you want to sum up Senna with 1 clip it would be donnington. Another would be the Monaco time attack where he beat his teammate Prost by 3 Sec.
@c312eal a lot the drivers say senna. i would say about 75%. murray walker stated barca 96 from schuey was more impressive. you try and sum up senna in a clip but with schumacher you cant. he was at the top of the sport from 94-06. 12 years. i think that is the most impressive record in f1 personally. 94spain, 96barca 98 hungary 98 suzuka 06brazil. i think to say one is better is too difficult - you can say on particular things where one has the edge on the other but overall, mmm...
@JamesHol100 Jeremy Clarkson stated "I always thought Giles Villeneuve was the greatest racing driver, but after watching hours and hours of Senna footage and the thing is Villeneuve was amazing on a few occasions. Senna was amazing every single time he got into a car" You can't sum up Senna in a clip. I only tried. Senna made schumi look like a sissy boy, watching schumi spin out after Senna chopped him. Senna was faster cause he had more downforce. Downforce from the weight of his balls.
@c312eal well if you measure a driver by how ballsy he is, then raikkonen is the best. 2004 spa-francorchamps QUALIFYING went through the smoke of a blown up car at 200mph flat out. every other driver lifted because you just couldnt see. but senna was a ballsy driver, i wouldnt say schumacher was a ballsy driver. schuey never went for outrageous overtakes like senna and hamilton do but michael was always at the front or the top 3. i think if adelaide94, jerez97, monaco06 didnt happen...
but he died...both of them are great...senna is death, schumacher is still alive and has broken almost every F1 record...AND...in this video's description, you are saying that one of the facts why is senna better than schumi is becoase of monaco's GP wins..well monaco is maybe the greatest F1 track, but still....its only track..i think truli has won in monaco 2004...whas is he in F1 against for example massa or vettel?nothing and he has won in monaco and they didnt..
@denJS graham hill has the greatest precentage of monaco wins so he is the best!!! :)
people who sometimes write on here have to consider drivers like JIM CLARK, FANGIO. looking at greatest racing drivers (not just f1) we look at john surtees (motorbike and f1 champ) graham hill (f1 champ, indy champ, le mans champ only man ever to do so). when someone asked schumacher if he was the best ever he said he wasnt because the success he had in f1 he couldnt have anywhere else
You really can't compare schumacher to senna...they are both great, but you can't say that senna is better or schumi is better...a lot of ppl is saying that schumi is so sucessfull becoase of senna's death...could be true, could be false, we will never get know becoase senna died...if senna wouldn't die and schumacher would won 2 titles when senna was still alive and if would schumacher die after this and senna wouldn't, a lot of ppl would by saying that schumacher was better than senna, but he
If schui's 99 crash at Silverstone had no tyre barriers in fron t of the wall like Senna at Tamburello - he'd be dead too - a 2 time world champ with about 35 wins in 8 years - comparable to Hakkinen and Mansell but not Senna and Prost.
He was just lucky Senna hit a wall first so they realized they needed tyre barriers.
Schui inherited the kudos that Senna had brought to F1 in his magnificent career - Schui owes Senna everything!
@mallamoozoo thats the nature of the sport unfortunately, bad things happen and then things are done to prevent them. senna owes alot to sir jackie stewart, so does michael and all the other f1 drivers since. senna may not have even won a title had it not been for jackie. jackie went through a lot. had a big crash at spa, his reputation in question but he stuck at his goal to make f1 safer. senna owes stewart everything!
schu is one of the greats - but not at all arguably the greatest (no more than its arguable Button is the G.O.A.T - you could argue it - but it's obvioulsy wrong. Same with Schu. All he has is impressive stats due above all else to the technical genius or Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne (and 14 other Benetton personnel that defected to Ferrari at the same time).
I hope Button wins 15 GP in Brawn's car this year - just to show how meaningless Schu's stats are!
so why dont you create a blog about Senna so that you can chat with your Senna groupies about how he is the best, and where you can list all the excuses of what would have happened if. And stop posting on youtube if you dont want to upload a video. If I want to read an essay there are plenty of web sites dedicated just for that. And with better arguments than yours btw.
Hey man! Although I respect Schumi, I think Senna's the best driver ever. And about Monaco, Ayrton had only two retirements('85 and '88) (Correct if I'm wrong) and in '84 and '86 he finished onto podium.
Senna was indeed the best. Senna was driving a piece of shit car, while schumacher was driving a F-1car suspected of traction control capabilites... Senna could barely control his car since the body frame and aerodynamics whre a complete failure. schumacher literally floored the pedal at the begining of a race and the computer system in his car distributed the power equally among all wheels to always get the best speed time.
schumacher, hakkinen, kovalainen and some others might have been down as well in '99, if senna and schumi wouldnt have gone forward and put their fingers up for safety... ok, ickx didnt kill him, but he maybe didnt give him enough space to live/survive... anyway, as u said, so many great talents died for the sport, we all are lucky to have such high safety standards nowadays... I read it somewhere on the internet with bellof, havent got a real quote...
well, not bad, taking into account that ickx killed him before he could win the f1 championship or drive in a good team... still lap record holder of the most demanding circuit of the world, the north loop of the nurburgring (only to have been driving around the nurburg with an average speed of above 200kph).. Jacky stewart said, that he was the most talented driver ever!!!
Wrong. As Alan Jones said at the end of the race "Bad luck for Schumacher but I still think Senna would have won the race anyway as he was driving brilliantly from very start"
So argue with a world champ who understands things 100 times better than you. Alan Jones is an expert like myself. You are a nobody.
Also if you want to count mechanical failures into your stats - MS had ZERO for 5 consecutive years mid 01-mid 06. AS had 44 in 10 years. Without MF's- Senna's strikerate match Schui's!
Agree with your point about Gilles Villeneuve winning none. Similar to Stirling Moss who is regarded as one of greatest British drivers ever..yet he has none of the 13 titles Brits won.
Senna vs Schumacher...id still go Schumacher as he was ruthless, anything to win.
umm - mate yeah Scumaher was more ruthless than ur average driver - but compared to Senna he was like a boy scout compared to a taliban terrorist - Senna pushed so hard people actually questioned his sanity! I am almost 100% sure you never saw senna race or you would never have made such a statement. He redefined commitment - set the bar at the level of fanatic - more than once he risked his life to prove a point. He was the most hard-core drive of all-time - he was the fanatic's fanatic!
I think that was Patrese at Hungary 1990 where senna bloked for an entire race - it was a fantastic effort. also dont forget senna deliberately crashing ino Prost at 270kph at japan 1990 - absolute dedication! Fanatical! Brilliant!
In 92 Senna held mANSELL OFF FOR THE LAST FEW LAPS - NOT THE WHOLE RACE. iT WAS A GRETA JOB AS mANSELL HAD NEW TYRES - sENNA'S RACE-OLD TYRES WORN TO THE CANVASS WAS 3 SECONDS A LAP SLOWER - IT WAS MASTERFUL STUFF.
And Senna was the greatest that ever lived by far - he was a once per century talent - if not even rarer - simply mind-blowing. There have been other great drivers - but Senna was beyond all calibration.
He simply wasn't like any other driver in F1 history, his philosophy, his temperament, his ethos, his natural skill. When Senna got into a car, you knew words would fail you, if you would try to describe how he made you feel. This enigmatic quality set him apart from everyone. Senna didn't just set the bar high, he made the bar, crafted the bar, owned the bar and set it almost beyond his own reach.
(dubyadubyabubya)(dot)atlasf1(dot)com/99/bra/santoro(dot)htm l
Quote;
"Ayrton Senna was not only a great driver - perhaps the greatest ever - HE WAS A LIVING MYTH. This was a man who fascinated millions of people of all ages and backgrounds, even those far from the world of racing."
So that busts your baseless claim that he Senna was martyred. You fool - he was already a God even whilst still alive.
Who gives a shit - just means he had the best car 7 years - big deal - nothing to be proud of.
Gilles Villeneuve was 5 times the driver of his son Jaques - yet Jaques fluked a WC the same way Schui got his 7 - having the best car - yet Gilles won a BIG FAT ZERO WC! Yet we all know he was better than all but 3 or 4 of the 30 drivers who won WC's.
It's not about stats - not everyone has the same deal - its about what you do with ur equipment!
If by "Shui destroyed Senna" you mean how Senna got 9 poles and won 9 races whilst Schumi won only 4 races without a SINGLE FUCKING POLE during their 41 GP together,despite Schui having the best car in 35 of those 41 GP, then OK, call it what you want!
you're a complete Idiot, Schumachers Teammates were no where while Berger was constantly in the Top 5 1993, so how is schumachers car supposed to be better? you idiot, it's SCHUMACHER WHO IS BETTER, BETTER THAN ALL!
asshole, same thing 1994, Schumacher never has sitten in the best car since 2001. maximum in one of the best till then.
Schumacher was simply the new legend and Senna was "so 80s"
Umm... ALL his Ferrari team-mates - Irvine, Barrichello, Massa won races at Ferrari (and were nowhere at other teams) - Proof that Ferrari was the best car.
And when team-orders were removed (ie. 99 when Schui crashed and broke his leg) then Irvine took Schui's place and nearly won the WC (2nd place by just 2 points - and would have won WC had he not been Schui's No.2 in the first 8 races) - More proof that ANYONE could win at Ferrari with team-orders.
And in 95 his Benetton was so good even Johnny bloody Herbert won 2 races in it - jesus that says it all - a monkey could win in that car!
The only year Schu won a WC and his team-mate didnt was 94 - and thats cos the No. 2 benetton seat was a revolving door - they had 4 drivers in it - so they never had a chance to get experience in the car. (And Lehto was recovering from a broken neck, and Verstappen was a part-time rookie).
If by "often" you mean; "in 3 years (48 GP) as team-mates Senna won 17 races and 2 World Championships and Berger won 2 races (Canada, Australia 92)" then yeah "Berger often beat Senna"
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA
Totally OWNED dude - give it up! I have whooped ur ass here!
Schumi was always alot faster than his team mates. I agree that had senna been his team mate then things would have been very different. Senna was super quick and a real competitor, but i think that you under estimate schumachers talent. Im not sure how long Senna would have gone on for any hows due to Prost quiting. Senna looked out of sorts on the grid at imola 94. He senced something was wrong i think. I wish 94 hadnn't happened so we could of seen for our selves.
May 1 was no less than the clipping of the greatest sportsman of all time - despite an already incredible record of 65 poles - he would have gone on to at least 100.
As Bernie Ecclestone said, "Had Senna not been killed, he would have won 4 Titles and Schuamcher maybe 2".
Senna was the mightiest driver of all-time. Indeed the greatest sportsman of all time. Only experts realize it. Had May 1 not happened - the whole world would have eventually realized it. The greatest tragedy ever in sport!
I finally admit you are right. The 7 titles had nothing to do with Schumacher but strategy. Thats why irvine and barachello are also multiple title holders. Oh no sorry, they didnt win any. It must be down to luck on Scuhmachers part. This argument can never be won. but thanks for entertaining me.
Err, actually if not for Schui's team-favortism in the first half of 99, Irvine would have had the extra points necessary to win the 99 World Championship ! BEFORE Schui even had 1 at Ferrari - so your own point catches you out yet again!
You have merely supported my argument that Schui's stats all depend on Rory Byrne, Ross Brawn and team-orders!
So why not his team mates then? (winning 7 titles, or even 1 would be nice) And you cant just say favouritism. Irvine has stated that schumacher could do things with the car that no one else could.
His team-mates were often second in the Title - if they were the number 1 driver, then they too would have won the titles.
I already explained about Irvine in 99. Also Barrichello in 2002 was 2nd. Noobie Massa beat Schumi in several races.
Without team-orders - Schui would still have won some WC - but not 7. (Also he won because his team-mates SUPPORTED him, whereas other teams driver's FIGHT each other! - it makes a difference in points and thats how Schui won 7!
Schumacher much better than Senna, 1992: Schumacher > Senna 1993:Senna > Schumacher 1994: Schumacher the Best EVER! Ayrton the Number 2, and always be the number Two.
fuck off u cunt senna=best and it wasnt his fault he got killed and NO YOU burn in hell you son of a bitch NEVER say anything like that about senna or ill stab ur throat
Senna was spiritual not nutty. He was brilliant in the wet and could have won monaco in a toleman had the race not been stopped, portugal and Donnigton sugest that you are wrong. Senna was amazing in the wet and everybody knows it. That said Schumacher too was a great racer and easily the best of his time. Although Mallamoozoo is the biggest Senna fan, he has a point. Schumi had it easy and would never had won 7 titles if Senna lived. It would have been great to watch.
You stupid bitch - you never saw Senna race and you spew shit out of ur mouth like "Senna hardly finished a race in the rain" Monaco 84 - 2nd (would have been 1st) Portugal 85 - 1st Belgium 85 - 1st Britain 88 - 1st Germany 88 - 1st Canada 89 - 1st (until MF 3 laps from finish) Brazil 91 - 1st San Marino 91 - 1st Australia 91 - 1st Brazil 93 - 1st Donington 93 - 1st Japan 93 - 1st Senna won almost every single wet race he was ever in you stipid little scrag!
I'm merely repeating the same argument Ive already won countless times over the past 2 years - you noobs don't seem to realize you are just the latest in a long line of idiots - I've dealt with every one of your infantile arguments before!
i can tell u that every single machine schumi raced was designed by rori byrne,from benetton to ferrari fact! his cars have won more races than even schumi, this means he mostly always had the best car. even a driver like massa could've won at least 5 titles with that car & team orders.. and then you'd be saying massa is the greatest? titles mean nothing its raw talent like senna's that make you a legend, schumi doesn't deserve the credit, byrne & brawn do they made michael look good not himslf
I did see Senna race and agree he was the best of his time. But things move on. If i were you i wouldnt bother watching F1 anymore, whats the point. I bet seeing shumacher achieve what he did really pissed you off. Watch celebrity master chef instead, mind you they cant cook like they used to.
You're wrong again - things have moved on but they've gone backwards - as Gerhard Berger said recently; "There are drivers today who think they could have beaten Ayrton - all I can say is I feel sorry for them - they don't know how far behind him they are."
And he is 100% correct - the standard has DROPPED since the early 90's! And yes I may stop watching as it's now shit! Millions already have as they know it's a pale shadow of the golden years! I suggest you get out some videos of then!
Basically, in order to actually believe Schui is better than Senna (or even half as good), one absolutely MUST have a complete lack of understanding about what the sport is about and about what constitutes race-driving.
1. being lucky enough to fall ass-backwards into cars designed by Rory Byrne under technical direction of Ross Brawn (providing the best and most reliable cars ever over 15 years)
2. having team-management forbid team-mates to challenge for 11 years.
3. having race strategies planned by someone else (Ross Brawn)
1. qualifying is all that matters. The race is a joke (eg. the last GP in Hungary 2008 - Hamilton and Massa quali on the front row and blitz their team-mates only to lose due to mechanical failure -their team-mates then collected all the points. Exactly how Prost "beat" Senna in 89 and how Schumi "won" many of his STATS - completely meaningless - everyone knows it.
2. Regardless, Senna was a better racer than Schui also- look at Donington or Canada 93. Schui never did that!
No mechanical failures in Britain, he spun off, look again. Schuey has had 22 mechanical failures in 250, while Senna had 30 in 161. Schuey 91/228 = 40%, Senna 41/131 = 31%. And if you think that's crap, take a look at Kubica, whose win ratio is 1/31 = 32%, higher than Senna and without his mechanical failure rate, and not a single year in F1 with the best car. Does it mean Kubica is better than Senna? NO! So this ratio thing means nothing. And you can't prove if Senna was better than Schuey.
He spun off in Britain becauas ethe gearbox broke. Listen to James Hunt commentating "Certainly it seems the gearbox failed" (or words to that effect as I'm remembering it 19 years ago) - and that was later confirmed.
Next point - what planet did you learn mathematics on? Kubica's 1/31 = 3.2% not 32% You have no idea about math.
Your argument is pathetic.
Senna shits on Schui and every knowledgable person knows it.
'84, 6 mechanical failures in '85, 5 mechanical failures in '86, 1 mechanical failure in 87, 0 mechanical failures in '88, 3 in '89, 1 in '90, 0 in '91, 5 in '92, and 4 in 93. So Senna only had 30 mechanical failures, which is 19%. Which means his proper win ratio is 41/131 = 31%. See for yourself in the offical formula 1 website.
Senna's better really. After Prost left F1, Senna didn't have anyone to compete against him.Probably he'd won 94' and 95'.Perhaps in final of 90's he'd be in Ferrari, and until the beginning of 2000's years, he'd got more two or three titles, those would be probably 8 or 9, who knows?
MRCV8 thats why he hardly ever defeated senna in the 2-3 years they had same engine and almost same quality of car as williams was the domestic car those seasons , sort it out b4 u post
yeah typical response no comeback..closet schumi fan..sad sad sad..your right its game over... 94 it was all over..with all due respect to the great senna...the death saved him embarressment of losing to schumi..senna style of driving the lving daylights out of thecar was outdated as your colour scheme in your room..he could not adapt to the new era that was arriving ..imagine if senna was racing today ..his engine would not last 2 mins let alone 2 races..dumb, dumb. game over u zoo
alan henry respected author - recently wrote a book top 100 f1 drivers - he placed moss at no.1 sorry thats the only one i know don't know where he put senna - i hope schumacher isn't even in it!
well at least he is thinking different to idiots like murray walker who simplyranks the drivers according to number of Titles - what a simpleton he is - no idea how to even set his own criteria,
Moss? I don't agree but at leasthe is thinking more than the likes of Murray. (Moss himself rated Fangio as best ever and later agreed Senna was equal with him. He later said "Schumacher is maybe starting to get to their level".)
I don't think Schui was even close to that level - too many privileges
Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Lauda were the best of those times.
Fangio said Senna was better than him. Moss rated Senna equal with Fangio, both over Schumi. Stewart said Senna was the fastest driver ever and Lauda said Senna was the greatest driver of all time.
well it's unqualified - you aren't experienced enough to have a valid opinion - its stupid - saying Schumi is better than Senna is like saying you are smarter than Einstein - not even in the same league!
I'd say Schumacher had slightly less car control than Senna, Villeneuve, and Clark - about same as Kimi and Montoya, but dedication second only to Senna, which resulted in very well-rounded technique and hence consistency is second only to Senna.
Senna's commitment and intelligence were the best ever - which he applied to complete mastery of technique - and hence Senna's consistency was also the greatest - say 97% of the time faster than team-mates.
Schui's commitment gave him consistency comparable to Senna's, above Gilles, but at a slightly lower speed.
Montoya could have been so much better - phenomenal car control {physical skills (reflexes, balance etc)} but mentally and emotionally not even close to good enough - not intelligent and very lazy.
Kimi is very fast when he likes the car - but 07 wa his most disappointing season (despite winning)- he was inconsistent.
Villeneuve had superhuman car control - in the top league where only a few others live - perhaps only Senna and Clark with him. Meaning on his day he was as fast as Senna. But whether his technique was quite rounded enough (ie. if he could have become consistently so quick, as Senna was) we don't know as unfortunately he died after just 68GP.
Mallamoozoo u suck man, whats your point of this fotage... SCHUMACHER is record holder in many fields in f1 racing, and 7 stars on his helmet of 7 f1 world championships. do we need some more. ahhh, a living LEGEND.
There's no point to the fotage (sic) - just an excuse to post my irrefutable argument in the comment box at the right - which destroys the myth that you make about Schui being anywhere near THE SENNA! LOL. Yes - indeed Schui needs more than 7 WC to claim all time No 1 status. With the same cars Schui had in his spoilt career, Prost would have won 8 and Senna 10!
but dont forget that all sports, including F1, use numbers (goals, points, seconds, etc) to distinguish between winners and losers. thats the whole point isnt it? in this case numbers are everything. and its schumacher who has the greatest record of all drivers in history. Ask Hamilton how important numbers are in F1 :)
And the only reason Senna's win rate isn't just as high as his pole rate is because his cars were notoriously fickle in the 80's - he had 44 mechanical failures in 10 years - costing him at least a dozen more wins!
Schui had NONE in 5 years (01-06)! His 21st century Ferrari was invincible - not him!
The only relevant number schui has is the most starts - 250 - almost 100 more opportunities than Senna to win a races.
"the only reason Senna's win rate isn't just as high as his 40% pole rate is because his cars were notoriously fickle in the 80's - he had 44 mechanical failures in 10 years - costing him at least a dozen more wins!"
And you have your priorities confused - you need to think of it this way: "Who cares about the world championship - it doesn't prove you are fast enough to get pole just by winning a world championship (Eg - Gilles - awesome driver - no Titles. Jaques - Shit driver and World Champion.
the whole point of racing in F1 is to win the championship. ask any driver. you will not get an answer like: my dream is to be best at qualifying. its gonna be I want to win!! i want to stand with hands above my head at the end of the year. not start from pole and then go Kablamo. how can an F1 fan like yourself say such a ridiculous line like "who cares about the championship"? think about what you say
The great Gilles Villeneuve said he didn't care about the championship. He just cared about individual races. This is because he understood championships are vague indicators subject to huge fluke factors, so they don't mean shit. Similarly, Senna said "Qualifying tells you the truth about the drivers (talent) - the championships involve luck."
BUT ALL 4 of Prost's were inherited after Senna retired with mechanical failure WHILST LEADING!(And NONE of Senna's were inherited!)
Without mechanical failures and politics (Senna's bullshit disqualification by French FIA president to hand Prost the Title) it would have been 11-nil - complete annihilation by Senna - yet because of bullshit factors Prost got the Title, despite being pulverized on the track by Senna.
All of them are best drivers for there's time... You can't compare Juan Manuel Fangio with Senna of Schumi or Prost, because Juan Manuel drove in 1950th, and some of drivers that drove in 1980th. It was all diferent 50 years ago and now.
You can't say that Prost or Schumi aren't great, they all are... there's no doubt...
i really hope that Michael will comeback and show you all in this new era without electronics and TC that he is the best even after 1 year. and please approve the comments because if you dont respond to them you cant provve what you are saying thanks bye
HEY MALLMOZOO please fuck of commenting on Schumacher videos. Schumi has shutthe mouth of all of you senna and fangio / clark fans . he stayed one year home. he went to test for Ferrari this week and He is again The best . He made the laws in Barcelona. NO TC NO electronics. almoust like in the old days. michael The BEST! it really made my eyes water. :X
Senna was a little bit Arogant exactly like Alonso and it seems that all of Senna's fans are like this. I remebered when Senna left a conferrence because he couldn accept the fact that he lost (exactly like alonso). you can find the video on youtube. Cheers !
no - he left the driver's briefing (pre-race) in disgust at the politics where the FIA changed the starting positions to put him on the dirty side of the track and give Prost the better start to win the race and the Championship. Of course Senna protested this - what idiot wouldn't? Senna had the conviction to back his words up and ram Prost right off the track - absolutely brilliant stuff - showing all that Senna would not take shit from the FIA!
Yes just like Alonso! If he doesn't like something he just says it, and i love that. I hate those cold calculators like Kimi and Michael. Show some passion and some soul for God sake!! That is what racing is about!!
oh so indeed you are searching for MSC tributes and start telling your opinions. I should say that this is not fair.... have you seen a MSC fan searching for senna tributes like you and your friends do ....... nah because we dont need do show the World nothing SChumi has shown you that he is the BEST! What do you want guys ?? Michael to die? :( EVen then (I hope it wont ) he will still be the best.
The reason Senna fans argue on Schumi sites is because Senna was better. There is no argument the other way - so nothing for Schumi fans to say on Senna sites.
The best driver in the world is for me, a guy who can make a car, can go on the limit with the car, that can qualifie good and got the raceskills and that schumi / senna
No that would be the best car maker / driver, not the best driver. Then you would have to say Jack Brabham (and no driver these days makes the car so it will stay that way forever.) For pure driving though, Brabham aint even top 10 and Senna is Number 1. I only care about driving - who cares who made it - that ain't sport - it's engineering!
But respect is due to brabham because he's the only guy to win the championship in his own car, now THATS the driver making an engeering difference lol.
Just say what u want Schumacher already broked all Senna's record (except the Monaco grand prix? wtf grand prix? Monaco GP is just not a F1 track just a street track).
Just because u dont like Scumi u saying this PROPAGANDA?
oh shut up, if a driver not tells what is wrong with the car and only drives, and gives no outpit you can'make the car;). Senna was also hours and hours with engineers, for nothing NOO?, so all your mathics are stupid, with comparing schumi / senna
YOU ARE WAY OFF TRACK - what you describe is test-driving to tune the car, not designing it. You clearly don't race or even understand racing. It's as Ralf Schumacher said - the driver doesn't make the car.
and you're still saying not the right things, the best driver in the world is also how can make the best card without mechanical failures and can make a team
And your still talking crap with that line "Schui made ferrari"
Go to the official F1 site and read what his own brother says about a driver's role in the team (when asked about the Stepneygate spy scandal and disqualifying the team but not the drivers);
Ralf; "The truth is the driver has very little to do with the development of the car."
besides which IF the driver was so important to the development of the car the test driver who does so many more miles in it would be more important then the 2 main drivers meaning Mika Salo built ferrai lmao.
"it shows why the race results are less meaningful than qualifying" -> Who invented such a bullshit ? Off course a Senna fan. To win the race, that's the only thing important in racing. You can be fastest guy on earth, if you don't finish the race, all your efforts to start on first ligne are useless !! ONLY THE FINAL RESULT !!
Oh my God, what's happening ? I just found a tribute to Michael, where neither JEEPPEE, neither You posted stupid comments. It's called "Michael Schumacher 1991-2006". Hurry up, you missed it !!! ASSHOLE !!
Schumacher 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senna 3
FAIL
RyuuzakiL5 1 year ago
Michael schumacher ist the F1 GOOOD
TheVideo96 1 year ago
BTW Monaco is maybe the greatest F1 track...but it's not the greatest driver challenge of all..Pikes peak hill climb and nordschleife was the greatest driving challenge of all...i know, pikes peak even isn't F1 track, same for nordschleife now, but those tracks are much more difficult than monaco...also today's rally tracks are still more difficult than F1 tracks...
denJS 1 year ago
@denJS You know what would make pikes peak even better? Usually people compete in a Pikes Peak Hillclimb. They should have a Pikes Peak Downhill change... We all know Downhill is A LOT harder than a hill climb. And if senna did Pikes Peak he would've raped it. Senna specialized with turbo charged cars LOL
c312eal 1 year ago
@c312eal schumacher came 3rd in his first full season in f1, have to say senna and prost were better drivers at this stage but arguably the third best (better than mansell i would say). in 1994 he was champion and the best in the sport after senna died and prost retied. from 1994-2006 michael was the best. always finishing in top 3 in the championship (unless disqualified '97). that is consistency and no driver will ever match 12 years as the best which is more impressive than 7 titles!!!
JamesHol100 1 year ago
@JamesHol100 Schumacher is definitely one of the best drivers of all time. To say he wasn't is just stupid. Yes he did cheat a few times, but the guy was REALLY smart. If I had to choose 3 drivers to be on a racing team. Senna, Prost, and Schumacher. Senna for the aggressiveness, Prost the Professor, and Schumi. But no matter what I believe Senna > Schumi. Regardless of the number of titles, those are only statistics. Senna was in an environment with tougher competition unlike Schumi
c312eal 1 year ago
@c312eal i think it is unfair to say senna had tougher competition. racing drivers are racing drivers are racing drivers. they go throught the same karts, lower formulae, get to f1. schumacher was just so much better than anyone else in his era, he dominated his era more than senna did - because prost has more wins, more tiles and more FASTEST LAPS. if senna was the fastest racing driver surely he would have fastest laps to go with the pole positions he has got?
JamesHol100 1 year ago
@JamesHol100 To name a few of the driver's Senna was up against. Prost & Mansell etc. These were legendary drivers. Hall of famers so I would say Senna had tougher competition. Schumi barely had anyone good against him. Talking about fastest laps. Senna beat Prost at a time attack in Monaco. Prost driving the same car, on the same team was beaten by 3 SECONDS by Senna. A legendary driver like Prost beaten by 3 seconds in the same car. What about Schumi? Oh yeah, Barrichello had to let schumi win
c312eal 11 months ago
@c312eal senna had prost as a teammate and as mclaren have always had equal drivers. that was a one of for senna. every teammate had to let senna win in the same way as schumacher, fangio, clark and all the greats so get that out of your head that schuey was different and only won because of contracts. because teams want there most likely driver to win the title picking up the points. there are always top drivers in f1, they follow the same routes to get there so ability of eras is similar.
JamesHol100 11 months ago
@JamesHol100 ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Have you seen Senna block the crap out of Prost and Schumi with a under powered car just so his teammate can make a get away? What Bar and Schumi did at Ferrari was an EMBARASSMENT FOR F1. You're actually defending what Ferrari and Schumi did... WOW This is racing, the best driver should win, it's not a theatre where everything is staged!
c312eal 11 months ago
@c312eal senna and prost was different as they were the best two but mcalren always do that (alo ham) they always let their drivers race at the start of the year (exc australia 97)but yes. i am defending ferrari because its a team sport. moss had to hand his car to fangio to win, the from 1950-2010 is massive. i can see why ppl beat up on ferrari and schuey because of the way they did it - but everyone does it tho. like it or not - this is a team sport.
JamesHol100 11 months ago
@JamesHol100 Team sport with each driver going for their OWN title. Regardless Ferrari was going to 1-2 in that race so constructor wise it was the same to ferrari. The call ferrari made was horrible. You can't use that excuse of team sport on that ocassion. Senna wasn't allowed to win by team decisions. You ever seen him blocking Prost and Schumi so that his teammate could make a 8 second get away? Not everyone does it. You work together as a team but drivers still compete against each other.
c312eal 11 months ago
@JamesHol100 I think without a doubt Senna was the greatest. Even Schumi said it himself. I quote "I too, say Senna was the best" "Senna is king" Schumi is definitely a good driver but not as good as Senna, he raced in underpowered cars and made Schumi and Prost look like nothing in the rain. Don't forget 1993 Donnington Park. 5th position, blocked by schumi. Proceeds to overtake Schumi&Prost and moves into 1st place in the rain with slower car. Stop just looking at stats.
c312eal 11 months ago
@c312eal well schuey would hardly say "yes, im the best" would he? senna was the rainmaster there is no denying, hamilton the greatest overtaker i have seen but schuey had the overall talent. as murray walker said, schuey at barca 96 was more impressive than senna 93, and i think hamilton silverstone 08 was more impressive too. in 93 senna had a faster car than schuey... schuey won i bad cars. you say senna won it bad cas but schuey did. schuey rarely had the best part you just think of 00-04...
JamesHol100 11 months ago
@JamesHol100 LOL Well it wasn't just schumi. Almost all the the ppl in F1 say Senna was the best. If you think silverstone and barca 96 was better than donnington 93 then Senna wouldn't be rainmaster at all. You really think overtaking 4 ppl in the rain on the 1st lap with a slower car is easy? Donnington 93 was the best display of rain driving ever. If you want to sum up Senna with 1 clip it would be donnington. Another would be the Monaco time attack where he beat his teammate Prost by 3 Sec.
c312eal 11 months ago
@c312eal a lot the drivers say senna. i would say about 75%. murray walker stated barca 96 from schuey was more impressive. you try and sum up senna in a clip but with schumacher you cant. he was at the top of the sport from 94-06. 12 years. i think that is the most impressive record in f1 personally. 94spain, 96barca 98 hungary 98 suzuka 06brazil. i think to say one is better is too difficult - you can say on particular things where one has the edge on the other but overall, mmm...
JamesHol100 11 months ago
@JamesHol100 Jeremy Clarkson stated "I always thought Giles Villeneuve was the greatest racing driver, but after watching hours and hours of Senna footage and the thing is Villeneuve was amazing on a few occasions. Senna was amazing every single time he got into a car" You can't sum up Senna in a clip. I only tried. Senna made schumi look like a sissy boy, watching schumi spin out after Senna chopped him. Senna was faster cause he had more downforce. Downforce from the weight of his balls.
c312eal 11 months ago
@c312eal well if you measure a driver by how ballsy he is, then raikkonen is the best. 2004 spa-francorchamps QUALIFYING went through the smoke of a blown up car at 200mph flat out. every other driver lifted because you just couldnt see. but senna was a ballsy driver, i wouldnt say schumacher was a ballsy driver. schuey never went for outrageous overtakes like senna and hamilton do but michael was always at the front or the top 3. i think if adelaide94, jerez97, monaco06 didnt happen...
JamesHol100 11 months ago
but he died...both of them are great...senna is death, schumacher is still alive and has broken almost every F1 record...AND...in this video's description, you are saying that one of the facts why is senna better than schumi is becoase of monaco's GP wins..well monaco is maybe the greatest F1 track, but still....its only track..i think truli has won in monaco 2004...whas is he in F1 against for example massa or vettel?nothing and he has won in monaco and they didnt..
denJS 1 year ago
@denJS But it's what senna's done that made him the best, just look at the way he drives. He was competitive and winning with a crappier car.
c312eal 1 year ago
@denJS graham hill has the greatest precentage of monaco wins so he is the best!!! :)
people who sometimes write on here have to consider drivers like JIM CLARK, FANGIO. looking at greatest racing drivers (not just f1) we look at john surtees (motorbike and f1 champ) graham hill (f1 champ, indy champ, le mans champ only man ever to do so). when someone asked schumacher if he was the best ever he said he wasnt because the success he had in f1 he couldnt have anywhere else
JamesHol100 1 year ago
You really can't compare schumacher to senna...they are both great, but you can't say that senna is better or schumi is better...a lot of ppl is saying that schumi is so sucessfull becoase of senna's death...could be true, could be false, we will never get know becoase senna died...if senna wouldn't die and schumacher would won 2 titles when senna was still alive and if would schumacher die after this and senna wouldn't, a lot of ppl would by saying that schumacher was better than senna, but he
denJS 1 year ago
Where can you get these posters these days?
I saw one when i was in Maranello...it was 143€ and i'm poor.
God damn it :)
terga1 2 years ago
Yes Senna is the best and Schumacher is what is today because of Sennas death. But Schumacher certainly is one in the top of all times.
luisolf 2 years ago
If schui's 99 crash at Silverstone had no tyre barriers in fron t of the wall like Senna at Tamburello - he'd be dead too - a 2 time world champ with about 35 wins in 8 years - comparable to Hakkinen and Mansell but not Senna and Prost.
He was just lucky Senna hit a wall first so they realized they needed tyre barriers.
Schui inherited the kudos that Senna had brought to F1 in his magnificent career - Schui owes Senna everything!
mallamoozoo 2 years ago
@mallamoozoo thats the nature of the sport unfortunately, bad things happen and then things are done to prevent them. senna owes alot to sir jackie stewart, so does michael and all the other f1 drivers since. senna may not have even won a title had it not been for jackie. jackie went through a lot. had a big crash at spa, his reputation in question but he stuck at his goal to make f1 safer. senna owes stewart everything!
JamesHol100 1 year ago
Isnt t possible the mechanicalfailures happened because of senna`s driving style?
Why do people keep comparing 2 different heroes from 2 era's?
2008gd 2 years ago
No - it's not possible.
mallamoozoo 2 years ago
schu is one of the greats - but not at all arguably the greatest (no more than its arguable Button is the G.O.A.T - you could argue it - but it's obvioulsy wrong. Same with Schu. All he has is impressive stats due above all else to the technical genius or Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne (and 14 other Benetton personnel that defected to Ferrari at the same time).
I hope Button wins 15 GP in Brawn's car this year - just to show how meaningless Schu's stats are!
mallamoozoo 2 years ago
Yeah - the vid is crap - I just threw any old crap up - it's not about the vid - it's about what i wrote in the description box.
Yeah thats the way the picture is - just coincidence I'm sure.
mallamoozoo 2 years ago
so why dont you create a blog about Senna so that you can chat with your Senna groupies about how he is the best, and where you can list all the excuses of what would have happened if. And stop posting on youtube if you dont want to upload a video. If I want to read an essay there are plenty of web sites dedicated just for that. And with better arguments than yours btw.
vjanik 2 years ago
no there isnt!
mallamoozoo 2 years ago
Hey man! Although I respect Schumi, I think Senna's the best driver ever. And about Monaco, Ayrton had only two retirements('85 and '88) (Correct if I'm wrong) and in '84 and '86 he finished onto podium.
adrenalized86 2 years ago 2
Senna was indeed the best. Senna was driving a piece of shit car, while schumacher was driving a F-1car suspected of traction control capabilites... Senna could barely control his car since the body frame and aerodynamics whre a complete failure. schumacher literally floored the pedal at the begining of a race and the computer system in his car distributed the power equally among all wheels to always get the best speed time.
Bilderbergz 3 years ago
Slight exaggeration but basically correct.
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
schumacher, hakkinen, kovalainen and some others might have been down as well in '99, if senna and schumi wouldnt have gone forward and put their fingers up for safety... ok, ickx didnt kill him, but he maybe didnt give him enough space to live/survive... anyway, as u said, so many great talents died for the sport, we all are lucky to have such high safety standards nowadays... I read it somewhere on the internet with bellof, havent got a real quote...
Nhartl206 3 years ago
sry,forgot... Stefan Bellof rules !!!!!!! best ever german driver with schumi (maybe even better)....
Nhartl206 3 years ago
bellof was voted 31
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
well, not bad, taking into account that ickx killed him before he could win the f1 championship or drive in a good team... still lap record holder of the most demanding circuit of the world, the north loop of the nurburgring (only to have been driving around the nurburg with an average speed of above 200kph).. Jacky stewart said, that he was the most talented driver ever!!!
Nhartl206 3 years ago
It's not fair to say Ickx killed him - accidents are part of the sport and nobody wants that to happen.
Yes - lap record of Nurburgring north loop is some achievement, but it's not enough to say Bellof was the best driver ever.
post a reference of Stewart's comment. I don't believe he said that. Stewart is loathe to ever pronouncing anyone as the "best ever".
Bellof may have become one of the greats - we will never know. But for sure he was a true racer like Gilles Villeneuve. RIP both heroes!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
senna rules.. fair enough... but schumi rules even more ;)...
Nhartl206 3 years ago
Statistics are useless.
Schumacher would've won in Monaco (1993) if it wasn't for a hydraulic failure.
moguetricky 3 years ago
Wrong. As Alan Jones said at the end of the race "Bad luck for Schumacher but I still think Senna would have won the race anyway as he was driving brilliantly from very start"
So argue with a world champ who understands things 100 times better than you. Alan Jones is an expert like myself. You are a nobody.
Also if you want to count mechanical failures into your stats - MS had ZERO for 5 consecutive years mid 01-mid 06. AS had 44 in 10 years. Without MF's- Senna's strikerate match Schui's!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
Schumacher had everything under control until his retirement. Senna lucked into that victory, for sure.
Do you take into account the amount of times Senna spun out of a race? Crashed into a backmarker? Destroyed his tires? Doesn't seem like it.
moguetricky 3 years ago
senna would've won monaco in 84 if the race wasn't stopped and in 88 if he never hit the wall so he would've won 8 times 7 in a row in ten years!
kouzouka 3 years ago
Agree with your point about Gilles Villeneuve winning none. Similar to Stirling Moss who is regarded as one of greatest British drivers ever..yet he has none of the 13 titles Brits won.
Senna vs Schumacher...id still go Schumacher as he was ruthless, anything to win.
Slater071 3 years ago
umm - mate yeah Scumaher was more ruthless than ur average driver - but compared to Senna he was like a boy scout compared to a taliban terrorist - Senna pushed so hard people actually questioned his sanity! I am almost 100% sure you never saw senna race or you would never have made such a statement. He redefined commitment - set the bar at the level of fanatic - more than once he risked his life to prove a point. He was the most hard-core drive of all-time - he was the fanatic's fanatic!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
I have seen footage...one race stands out where Senna blocked Mansell for an entire race.
Slater071 3 years ago
I think that was Patrese at Hungary 1990 where senna bloked for an entire race - it was a fantastic effort. also dont forget senna deliberately crashing ino Prost at 270kph at japan 1990 - absolute dedication! Fanatical! Brilliant!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
You sure it wasnt Monaco circa 1991/1992??? I recall seeing footage of Senna holding off Mansell.
Schumi took out Hill to win title...THEN tried to take out Villeneuve in 1997. Then as his mother died....the ice man raced anyway. RUTHLESS
Slater071 3 years ago
In 92 Senna held mANSELL OFF FOR THE LAST FEW LAPS - NOT THE WHOLE RACE. iT WAS A GRETA JOB AS mANSELL HAD NEW TYRES - sENNA'S RACE-OLD TYRES WORN TO THE CANVASS WAS 3 SECONDS A LAP SLOWER - IT WAS MASTERFUL STUFF.
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
PMSL
So 3 secs a lap slower??? You sure it wasnt 3.276548 secs slower??? haha How comes u know so much???
Slater071 3 years ago
cos i have seen every race for 25 years.
And Senna was the greatest that ever lived by far - he was a once per century talent - if not even rarer - simply mind-blowing. There have been other great drivers - but Senna was beyond all calibration.
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
What a comment!!! you mean as fanatical as you are???
hahahahahaha!!!!
hunt2727 3 years ago
He simply wasn't like any other driver in F1 history, his philosophy, his temperament, his ethos, his natural skill. When Senna got into a car, you knew words would fail you, if you would try to describe how he made you feel. This enigmatic quality set him apart from everyone. Senna didn't just set the bar high, he made the bar, crafted the bar, owned the bar and set it almost beyond his own reach.
stillceaser 3 years ago 3
Also,
Check;
(dubyadubyabubya)(dot)atlasf1(dot)com/99/bra/santoro(dot)htm l
Quote;
"Ayrton Senna was not only a great driver - perhaps the greatest ever - HE WAS A LIVING MYTH. This was a man who fascinated millions of people of all ages and backgrounds, even those far from the world of racing."
So that busts your baseless claim that he Senna was martyred. You fool - he was already a God even whilst still alive.
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
you seem to beleive in myths
the FACTS ARE SCHUMACHER WON MORE CHAMPIONSHIP
case closed
nflsue 3 years ago
Who gives a shit - just means he had the best car 7 years - big deal - nothing to be proud of.
Gilles Villeneuve was 5 times the driver of his son Jaques - yet Jaques fluked a WC the same way Schui got his 7 - having the best car - yet Gilles won a BIG FAT ZERO WC! Yet we all know he was better than all but 3 or 4 of the 30 drivers who won WC's.
It's not about stats - not everyone has the same deal - its about what you do with ur equipment!
Get it? Comprendhe? Capiche?
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
Schumacher the best, he destroyed Senna.
OreillyORLY 3 years ago
If by "Shui destroyed Senna" you mean how Senna got 9 poles and won 9 races whilst Schumi won only 4 races without a SINGLE FUCKING POLE during their 41 GP together,despite Schui having the best car in 35 of those 41 GP, then OK, call it what you want!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAAAA
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
you're a complete Idiot, Schumachers Teammates were no where while Berger was constantly in the Top 5 1993, so how is schumachers car supposed to be better? you idiot, it's SCHUMACHER WHO IS BETTER, BETTER THAN ALL!
asshole, same thing 1994, Schumacher never has sitten in the best car since 2001. maximum in one of the best till then.
Schumacher was simply the new legend and Senna was "so 80s"
get over it, nigguh.
OreillyORLY 3 years ago
"Schumacher's teammates were nowhere"?
Umm... ALL his Ferrari team-mates - Irvine, Barrichello, Massa won races at Ferrari (and were nowhere at other teams) - Proof that Ferrari was the best car.
And when team-orders were removed (ie. 99 when Schui crashed and broke his leg) then Irvine took Schui's place and nearly won the WC (2nd place by just 2 points - and would have won WC had he not been Schui's No.2 in the first 8 races) - More proof that ANYONE could win at Ferrari with team-orders.
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
And in 95 his Benetton was so good even Johnny bloody Herbert won 2 races in it - jesus that says it all - a monkey could win in that car!
The only year Schu won a WC and his team-mate didnt was 94 - and thats cos the No. 2 benetton seat was a revolving door - they had 4 drivers in it - so they never had a chance to get experience in the car. (And Lehto was recovering from a broken neck, and Verstappen was a part-time rookie).
OWNED!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
"Berger often beat Senna"?
If by "often" you mean; "in 3 years (48 GP) as team-mates Senna won 17 races and 2 World Championships and Berger won 2 races (Canada, Australia 92)" then yeah "Berger often beat Senna"
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA
Totally OWNED dude - give it up! I have whooped ur ass here!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
look at the comment above you
''fuck off u cunt senna''
lol
senna was a bitch
...schumacher and hamilton are sex gods
..and better drivers
SCHUMACHER IS THE BEST EVER
ALSO...when people die they gets more fans...weird
just look at
cobain,clark,duncan edwards,that witch princess diana.....
nflsue 3 years ago
You can disprove this theory urself by killing urself and noting that you still have no fans. Case closed.
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
Schumi was always alot faster than his team mates. I agree that had senna been his team mate then things would have been very different. Senna was super quick and a real competitor, but i think that you under estimate schumachers talent. Im not sure how long Senna would have gone on for any hows due to Prost quiting. Senna looked out of sorts on the grid at imola 94. He senced something was wrong i think. I wish 94 hadnn't happened so we could of seen for our selves.
kirbster1977 3 years ago
May 1 was no less than the clipping of the greatest sportsman of all time - despite an already incredible record of 65 poles - he would have gone on to at least 100.
As Bernie Ecclestone said, "Had Senna not been killed, he would have won 4 Titles and Schuamcher maybe 2".
Senna was the mightiest driver of all-time. Indeed the greatest sportsman of all time. Only experts realize it. Had May 1 not happened - the whole world would have eventually realized it. The greatest tragedy ever in sport!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
I finally admit you are right. The 7 titles had nothing to do with Schumacher but strategy. Thats why irvine and barachello are also multiple title holders. Oh no sorry, they didnt win any. It must be down to luck on Scuhmachers part. This argument can never be won. but thanks for entertaining me.
kirbster1977 3 years ago
Err, actually if not for Schui's team-favortism in the first half of 99, Irvine would have had the extra points necessary to win the 99 World Championship ! BEFORE Schui even had 1 at Ferrari - so your own point catches you out yet again!
You have merely supported my argument that Schui's stats all depend on Rory Byrne, Ross Brawn and team-orders!
I WIN!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
so irvine is better than schumi now?
kirbster1977 3 years ago
Didn't say that - learn to read!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
So where do you rate shumacher?
kirbster1977 3 years ago
After Senna, Prost, around Mansell's level.
Any of them (and even some lesser drivers) would have won 7 titles in Schui's cars.
Prost would have won 9 and Senna 11 (Senna would have won 97,98,99,05 where Schui failed)
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
So why not his team mates then? (winning 7 titles, or even 1 would be nice) And you cant just say favouritism. Irvine has stated that schumacher could do things with the car that no one else could.
kirbster1977 3 years ago
His team-mates were often second in the Title - if they were the number 1 driver, then they too would have won the titles.
I already explained about Irvine in 99. Also Barrichello in 2002 was 2nd. Noobie Massa beat Schumi in several races.
Without team-orders - Schui would still have won some WC - but not 7. (Also he won because his team-mates SUPPORTED him, whereas other teams driver's FIGHT each other! - it makes a difference in points and thats how Schui won 7!
MEANINGLESS STATS
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
Schumacher much better than Senna, 1992: Schumacher > Senna 1993:Senna > Schumacher 1994: Schumacher the Best EVER! Ayrton the Number 2, and always be the number Two.
Schumacher: thousands of Records
Ayrton: dead.
FUCK YOU, BURN IN HELL.
OreillyORLY 3 years ago
fuck off u cunt senna=best and it wasnt his fault he got killed and NO YOU burn in hell you son of a bitch NEVER say anything like that about senna or ill stab ur throat
chrismido 3 years ago
kirbster1977
mallamoozoo is an idiot
schumacher was the very best...
he was great in all weathers - senna hardly finished a race in the rain..
senna was a bit nutty in the head
nflsue 3 years ago
Senna was spiritual not nutty. He was brilliant in the wet and could have won monaco in a toleman had the race not been stopped, portugal and Donnigton sugest that you are wrong. Senna was amazing in the wet and everybody knows it. That said Schumacher too was a great racer and easily the best of his time. Although Mallamoozoo is the biggest Senna fan, he has a point. Schumi had it easy and would never had won 7 titles if Senna lived. It would have been great to watch.
kirbster1977 3 years ago 3
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
This argument can be won - I have already won it!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
I'm merely repeating the same argument Ive already won countless times over the past 2 years - you noobs don't seem to realize you are just the latest in a long line of idiots - I've dealt with every one of your infantile arguments before!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
i can tell u that every single machine schumi raced was designed by rori byrne,from benetton to ferrari fact! his cars have won more races than even schumi, this means he mostly always had the best car. even a driver like massa could've won at least 5 titles with that car & team orders.. and then you'd be saying massa is the greatest? titles mean nothing its raw talent like senna's that make you a legend, schumi doesn't deserve the credit, byrne & brawn do they made michael look good not himslf
kouzouka 3 years ago 5
I did see Senna race and agree he was the best of his time. But things move on. If i were you i wouldnt bother watching F1 anymore, whats the point. I bet seeing shumacher achieve what he did really pissed you off. Watch celebrity master chef instead, mind you they cant cook like they used to.
kirbster1977 3 years ago
You're wrong again - things have moved on but they've gone backwards - as Gerhard Berger said recently; "There are drivers today who think they could have beaten Ayrton - all I can say is I feel sorry for them - they don't know how far behind him they are."
And he is 100% correct - the standard has DROPPED since the early 90's! And yes I may stop watching as it's now shit! Millions already have as they know it's a pale shadow of the golden years! I suggest you get out some videos of then!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
Basically, in order to actually believe Schui is better than Senna (or even half as good), one absolutely MUST have a complete lack of understanding about what the sport is about and about what constitutes race-driving.
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
If by "driver" you mean
1. being lucky enough to fall ass-backwards into cars designed by Rory Byrne under technical direction of Ross Brawn (providing the best and most reliable cars ever over 15 years)
2. having team-management forbid team-mates to challenge for 11 years.
3. having race strategies planned by someone else (Ross Brawn)
then yes, Schui is the greatest ever.
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
But if by "driver" you mean:
the guy actually driving (duh) the car controlling it at the limit of human performance - anywhere, anytime, EVERYWHERE, EVERYTIME
then Senna is light years out in a class of his own! (Schui maybe scrapes in 6th of all-time.)
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
And re. qualifying:
1. qualifying is all that matters. The race is a joke (eg. the last GP in Hungary 2008 - Hamilton and Massa quali on the front row and blitz their team-mates only to lose due to mechanical failure -their team-mates then collected all the points. Exactly how Prost "beat" Senna in 89 and how Schumi "won" many of his STATS - completely meaningless - everyone knows it.
2. Regardless, Senna was a better racer than Schui also- look at Donington or Canada 93. Schui never did that!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
Total Crap - I can count 4 in 89 alone - USA, Italy, British, French.
Anyway - even if you were right - 19% MFs cw Schui's 5%, if that, is HUGE!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
No mechanical failures in Britain, he spun off, look again. Schuey has had 22 mechanical failures in 250, while Senna had 30 in 161. Schuey 91/228 = 40%, Senna 41/131 = 31%. And if you think that's crap, take a look at Kubica, whose win ratio is 1/31 = 32%, higher than Senna and without his mechanical failure rate, and not a single year in F1 with the best car. Does it mean Kubica is better than Senna? NO! So this ratio thing means nothing. And you can't prove if Senna was better than Schuey.
Tirana20 3 years ago
He spun off in Britain becauas ethe gearbox broke. Listen to James Hunt commentating "Certainly it seems the gearbox failed" (or words to that effect as I'm remembering it 19 years ago) - and that was later confirmed.
Next point - what planet did you learn mathematics on? Kubica's 1/31 = 3.2% not 32% You have no idea about math.
Your argument is pathetic.
Senna shits on Schui and every knowledgable person knows it.
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
Actually Senna had 5 mechanical failures in
'84, 6 mechanical failures in '85, 5 mechanical failures in '86, 1 mechanical failure in 87, 0 mechanical failures in '88, 3 in '89, 1 in '90, 0 in '91, 5 in '92, and 4 in 93. So Senna only had 30 mechanical failures, which is 19%. Which means his proper win ratio is 41/131 = 31%. See for yourself in the offical formula 1 website.
Tirana20 3 years ago
Senna's better really. After Prost left F1, Senna didn't have anyone to compete against him.Probably he'd won 94' and 95'.Perhaps in final of 90's he'd be in Ferrari, and until the beginning of 2000's years, he'd got more two or three titles, those would be probably 8 or 9, who knows?
BruxoMilk 3 years ago
MRCV8 thats why he hardly ever defeated senna in the 2-3 years they had same engine and almost same quality of car as williams was the domestic car those seasons , sort it out b4 u post
kenischa 3 years ago
there is no winner
innojuve1985 3 years ago
yeah typical response no comeback..closet schumi fan..sad sad sad..your right its game over... 94 it was all over..with all due respect to the great senna...the death saved him embarressment of losing to schumi..senna style of driving the lving daylights out of thecar was outdated as your colour scheme in your room..he could not adapt to the new era that was arriving ..imagine if senna was racing today ..his engine would not last 2 mins let alone 2 races..dumb, dumb. game over u zoo
MRCV8 3 years ago
Senna is better
realtimecop 3 years ago
alan henry respected author - recently wrote a book top 100 f1 drivers - he placed moss at no.1 sorry thats the only one i know don't know where he put senna - i hope schumacher isn't even in it!
AyrtonSennaGODsPilot 3 years ago
well at least he is thinking different to idiots like murray walker who simplyranks the drivers according to number of Titles - what a simpleton he is - no idea how to even set his own criteria,
Moss? I don't agree but at leasthe is thinking more than the likes of Murray. (Moss himself rated Fangio as best ever and later agreed Senna was equal with him. He later said "Schumacher is maybe starting to get to their level".)
I don't think Schui was even close to that level - too many privileges
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
I have watched F1 since 1993...
1. Schumacher
2. Prost
3. Senna
:)
Tonemi 4 years ago
Well then you missed all of Senna and Prost so your comment is irrelevant.
I watched F1 since 1984 (and occasionally since 1981)...
1. SENNA
=2. PROST, SCHUMACHER
(and Villeneuve would probably be in there too at =2, but I didn't see quite enough to be qualified to comment - like you with Senna and Prost)
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
You must be right because there can not be a way that I found out anything about 80´s
Tonemi 4 years ago
so you've watched it since 1981? what about the drivers in 50's 60's 70's. Stumped
kldavies10 3 years ago
wot about them?
Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Lauda were the best of those times.
Fangio said Senna was better than him. Moss rated Senna equal with Fangio, both over Schumi. Stewart said Senna was the fastest driver ever and Lauda said Senna was the greatest driver of all time.
Stumped!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
well it's unqualified - you aren't experienced enough to have a valid opinion - its stupid - saying Schumi is better than Senna is like saying you are smarter than Einstein - not even in the same league!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
I'd say Schumacher had slightly less car control than Senna, Villeneuve, and Clark - about same as Kimi and Montoya, but dedication second only to Senna, which resulted in very well-rounded technique and hence consistency is second only to Senna.
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
Senna and Villeneuve (and apparently Clark) had EXTREME car control - calibrate it arbitrarily as 100.
Schui's car control was, say 95 (with Montoya and Kimi and Mika - and the average F1 driver around, say, 85)
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
Senna's commitment and intelligence were the best ever - which he applied to complete mastery of technique - and hence Senna's consistency was also the greatest - say 97% of the time faster than team-mates.
Schui's commitment gave him consistency comparable to Senna's, above Gilles, but at a slightly lower speed.
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
I agree with some of that up to a point.
Montoya could have been so much better - phenomenal car control {physical skills (reflexes, balance etc)} but mentally and emotionally not even close to good enough - not intelligent and very lazy.
Kimi is very fast when he likes the car - but 07 wa his most disappointing season (despite winning)- he was inconsistent.
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
Villeneuve had superhuman car control - in the top league where only a few others live - perhaps only Senna and Clark with him. Meaning on his day he was as fast as Senna. But whether his technique was quite rounded enough (ie. if he could have become consistently so quick, as Senna was) we don't know as unfortunately he died after just 68GP.
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
how much do you want to write about this vid
schumacher no. 98765343753489549
senna no. 1
alonso in top 10
hamilton 9485903286834637657658765874987649576483862986098690824894957495793875495734957903487563485684758347568347653487564837568375634875384563478
sorry i hate hamilton and adore senna
pooedcunt 4 years ago
Mallamoozoo u suck man, whats your point of this fotage... SCHUMACHER is record holder in many fields in f1 racing, and 7 stars on his helmet of 7 f1 world championships. do we need some more. ahhh, a living LEGEND.
Quixpeed 4 years ago
There's no point to the fotage (sic) - just an excuse to post my irrefutable argument in the comment box at the right - which destroys the myth that you make about Schui being anywhere near THE SENNA! LOL. Yes - indeed Schui needs more than 7 WC to claim all time No 1 status. With the same cars Schui had in his spoilt career, Prost would have won 8 and Senna 10!
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
fuck you your faggot...you dont understand nothing about f1...go play with your fag friends...little prick
SENNA...SIMPLY THE BEST
xansk8 4 years ago
Numbers don't say anything. "Figures can be very deceving" Murray Walker.
sennahj 4 years ago
but dont forget that all sports, including F1, use numbers (goals, points, seconds, etc) to distinguish between winners and losers. thats the whole point isnt it? in this case numbers are everything. and its schumacher who has the greatest record of all drivers in history. Ask Hamilton how important numbers are in F1 :)
vjanik 3 years ago
No - he doesnt!
Senna 40% pole rate, Schui 27%.
And the only reason Senna's win rate isn't just as high as his pole rate is because his cars were notoriously fickle in the 80's - he had 44 mechanical failures in 10 years - costing him at least a dozen more wins!
Schui had NONE in 5 years (01-06)! His 21st century Ferrari was invincible - not him!
The only relevant number schui has is the most starts - 250 - almost 100 more opportunities than Senna to win a races.
You have been OWNED!
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
who cares about pole rate? you dont win championships on a high pole rate. is that your biggest argument for senna being the best?
vjanik 3 years ago
Are you blind? What part of;
"the only reason Senna's win rate isn't just as high as his 40% pole rate is because his cars were notoriously fickle in the 80's - he had 44 mechanical failures in 10 years - costing him at least a dozen more wins!"
didn't you see?
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
agreed
kenischa 3 years ago
And you have your priorities confused - you need to think of it this way: "Who cares about the world championship - it doesn't prove you are fast enough to get pole just by winning a world championship (Eg - Gilles - awesome driver - no Titles. Jaques - Shit driver and World Champion.
Capiche you moron?
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
the whole point of racing in F1 is to win the championship. ask any driver. you will not get an answer like: my dream is to be best at qualifying. its gonna be I want to win!! i want to stand with hands above my head at the end of the year. not start from pole and then go Kablamo. how can an F1 fan like yourself say such a ridiculous line like "who cares about the championship"? think about what you say
filipjanik87 3 years ago
WRONG!- Once again I am proved correct by facts.
The great Gilles Villeneuve said he didn't care about the championship. He just cared about individual races. This is because he understood championships are vague indicators subject to huge fluke factors, so they don't mean shit. Similarly, Senna said "Qualifying tells you the truth about the drivers (talent) - the championships involve luck."
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
Best example ever - 1989.
Senna 6, Prost 4 wins.
BUT ALL 4 of Prost's were inherited after Senna retired with mechanical failure WHILST LEADING!(And NONE of Senna's were inherited!)
Without mechanical failures and politics (Senna's bullshit disqualification by French FIA president to hand Prost the Title) it would have been 11-nil - complete annihilation by Senna - yet because of bullshit factors Prost got the Title, despite being pulverized on the track by Senna.
mallamoozoo 3 years ago
for the greatest drivers its not about how much you win it is how you win and in what cars!!
that marks a genius driver
AyrtonSennaGODsPilot 3 years ago
Senna is indeed the greatest driver of all time. Not Schumi, not Prost, not Juan Manuel fangio.
Senna is.
BritneySpearsRox 4 years ago
All of them are best drivers for there's time... You can't compare Juan Manuel Fangio with Senna of Schumi or Prost, because Juan Manuel drove in 1950th, and some of drivers that drove in 1980th. It was all diferent 50 years ago and now.
You can't say that Prost or Schumi aren't great, they all are... there's no doubt...
ime13543 4 years ago
Put them head to head in identical Ferrari F2007s and who would be quickest over a single lap? * Felipe Massa * Kimi Raikkonen * Michael Schumacher
Felipe Massa 4.76%
Kimi Raikkonen 30.24%
Michael Schumacher 65.00%
this is the majority of people's opinion. and it's TRUE !!!!
tracto91 4 years ago
i really hope that Michael will comeback and show you all in this new era without electronics and TC that he is the best even after 1 year. and please approve the comments because if you dont respond to them you cant provve what you are saying thanks bye
tracto91 4 years ago
HEY MALLMOZOO please fuck of commenting on Schumacher videos. Schumi has shutthe mouth of all of you senna and fangio / clark fans . he stayed one year home. he went to test for Ferrari this week and He is again The best . He made the laws in Barcelona. NO TC NO electronics. almoust like in the old days. michael The BEST! it really made my eyes water. :X
tracto91 4 years ago
Mallamoozoo. Here another link to a schumi tribute vid you havent posted yet..
watch?v=Z9aFlAmGLmM
jarlonicholas 4 years ago
thanks
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
You're welcome. hey, you're not there yet. Please visit so all schumi fans would know your scientific explaination.
jarlonicholas 4 years ago
yeah OK. cheers!
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
you're not there yet.
jarlonicholas 4 years ago
nah - too busy educating the slow learners!
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
Senna was a little bit Arogant exactly like Alonso and it seems that all of Senna's fans are like this. I remebered when Senna left a conferrence because he couldn accept the fact that he lost (exactly like alonso). you can find the video on youtube. Cheers !
tracto91 4 years ago
no - he left the driver's briefing (pre-race) in disgust at the politics where the FIA changed the starting positions to put him on the dirty side of the track and give Prost the better start to win the race and the Championship. Of course Senna protested this - what idiot wouldn't? Senna had the conviction to back his words up and ram Prost right off the track - absolutely brilliant stuff - showing all that Senna would not take shit from the FIA!
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
He was the only one who had the guts to face FIA!
yanny1203 4 years ago 3
Yes just like Alonso! If he doesn't like something he just says it, and i love that. I hate those cold calculators like Kimi and Michael. Show some passion and some soul for God sake!! That is what racing is about!!
sennahj 4 years ago
oh so indeed you are searching for MSC tributes and start telling your opinions. I should say that this is not fair.... have you seen a MSC fan searching for senna tributes like you and your friends do ....... nah because we dont need do show the World nothing SChumi has shown you that he is the BEST! What do you want guys ?? Michael to die? :( EVen then (I hope it wont ) he will still be the best.
tracto91 4 years ago
The reason Senna fans argue on Schumi sites is because Senna was better. There is no argument the other way - so nothing for Schumi fans to say on Senna sites.
Capiche?
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
Hey Mallamoozoo.. There is another senna vs schumacher vid where you haven't posted.. Come on.. You got some talking to do.. Here's the link:
watch?v=8MSUFZzhuL8
Asshole!
jarlonicholas 4 years ago
look up "Ayrton Senna Helps To Friend" thats one fo the reasons senna is considered one of the best, reminded me of David Purley.
JohnLawley24v 4 years ago
The best driver in the world is for me, a guy who can make a car, can go on the limit with the car, that can qualifie good and got the raceskills and that schumi / senna
Rmaathuis 4 years ago
No that would be the best car maker / driver, not the best driver. Then you would have to say Jack Brabham (and no driver these days makes the car so it will stay that way forever.) For pure driving though, Brabham aint even top 10 and Senna is Number 1. I only care about driving - who cares who made it - that ain't sport - it's engineering!
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
But respect is due to brabham because he's the only guy to win the championship in his own car, now THATS the driver making an engeering difference lol.
JohnLawley24v 4 years ago
Then ur saying this "Now, Monaco is acknowledged by absolutely everyone as THE GREATEST DRIVER CHALLENGE OF ALL "
Just fucking stop talking bullshit its just a fucking street track.
THCNRD 4 years ago
Just say what u want Schumacher already broked all Senna's record (except the Monaco grand prix? wtf grand prix? Monaco GP is just not a F1 track just a street track).
Just because u dont like Scumi u saying this PROPAGANDA?
THCNRD 4 years ago
oh shut up, if a driver not tells what is wrong with the car and only drives, and gives no outpit you can'make the car;). Senna was also hours and hours with engineers, for nothing NOO?, so all your mathics are stupid, with comparing schumi / senna
Rmaathuis 4 years ago
YOU ARE WAY OFF TRACK - what you describe is test-driving to tune the car, not designing it. You clearly don't race or even understand racing. It's as Ralf Schumacher said - the driver doesn't make the car.
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
and you're still saying not the right things, the best driver in the world is also how can make the best card without mechanical failures and can make a team
Rmaathuis 4 years ago
And your still talking crap with that line "Schui made ferrari"
Go to the official F1 site and read what his own brother says about a driver's role in the team (when asked about the Stepneygate spy scandal and disqualifying the team but not the drivers);
Ralf; "The truth is the driver has very little to do with the development of the car."
YOU HEAR THAT???!!!!!!!
CAPICHE????!!!!!!!
Eat that all you fanboy freaks!
Rory Byrne made ferrari great - not Schumi.
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
besides which IF the driver was so important to the development of the car the test driver who does so many more miles in it would be more important then the 2 main drivers meaning Mika Salo built ferrai lmao.
JohnLawley24v 4 years ago
what do you want to let's see with this video?
Rmaathuis 4 years ago
A: The description box!
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
He is remembered by serious fan. No doubt.
jarlonicholas 4 years ago
"it shows why the race results are less meaningful than qualifying" -> Who invented such a bullshit ? Off course a Senna fan. To win the race, that's the only thing important in racing. You can be fastest guy on earth, if you don't finish the race, all your efforts to start on first ligne are useless !! ONLY THE FINAL RESULT !!
buch1 4 years ago 2
Spoken like a true ignoramus who can't differentiate between the means and the end. Poor you!
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
Oh my God, what's happening ? I just found a tribute to Michael, where neither JEEPPEE, neither You posted stupid comments. It's called "Michael Schumacher 1991-2006". Hurry up, you missed it !!! ASSHOLE !!
buch1 4 years ago 2
Cheers!
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
Stupid asshole. THE MOST UNKNOWN DRIVER ON YOUTUBE !! hahaha
I'm still waiting for your name, CHAMPION OF MY ASS !!
buch1 4 years ago 2
keep waiting - and hold ur breath while ur at it! ha ha ha
mallamoozoo 4 years ago
hey, send me some message here too.. i need to know your name.. Thanks.. PM me..
jarlonicholas 4 years ago