Let me throw in two unlucky horses whose careers was ruined by injury and untimely death. Two of Fred Winter`s cracking chasers Pendil & Killiney. Pendil lets not forget really was a brilliant chaser who was unlucky not to win at least a couple Gold Cups. And he was actually Favourite for the `77 Gold Cup having made a fantastic come-back from lengthy injury at the age of 12 before he got injured again. Killiney, well it`s anyones guess how good he could have been. He looked a superstar.
I think I'll adopt Sir Peter O Sullevan's strategy when people get carried away with the here and now and doubt Arkle's vast superiority.He just allows himself a little knowing smile and says as little as possible.
Just look at Arkle rounding the home turn.Was that really a horse?This is Steve Ovett winning an Olympic 1500 metres, this is Michael Flatley pointing to his feet in Riverdance.The feckin' Son of a Bright Cherry is looking around to see if he knows anyone in the stands. That's a flat out gallop for mere mortals, and feck sake look at it, 3 miles on the clock in a Gold Cup and he's bloody idling! He's bored! What other horse has pissed home in a Gold Cup in that manner?
flyingbolt was probably better than arkle it was just that arkle was dreapers favourite. flyingbolt won the champion chase then a day later a close 3rd in the ch hurdle then won the irish national thats just unheard of today...please dont try to compare the likes of kauto star to these true legends...flyingbolt would beat kauto star with mcCririck on his back.
@pmus1 Good one! Flying Bolt would beat Kauto Star that way alright -but Arkle would have won with McCrirrick having a row with Ted Walsh on his back!
@TissuePrices That is an astounding comment. Look at other Gold Cup winners approaching the line and then look back at Arkle. Look particularly at their actions near the line. I'd say you could probably look at all of them and no other horse's action remains as extended as Arkle's up that stamina examining hill. Mention whoever you like and you will still see a more scraping action and never such an effortlessly turf-eating stride.
@alipitogen well ofcourse its easy to look like that against donkeys, thats the point im making, arkle did it in a weak era which makes him look better then he is
everybody that says arkle was the best ever and nothing holds a candle to him is been very unfair,flyingbolt for one was as good if not better and he proved it several times
@burkhillcomedy There maybe doubts as to who was better. But there's no doubt that Flyingbolt was more versatile, possessed more stamina, and arguably was better at conceding weight. Like Arkle could've won the Champion Chase, and run a gallant 3rd in the Champion hurdle less than 24 hours later. LOL.
@MrAddyginsh Do you doubt that Arkle could have won a Champion Chase? If Dawn Run could beat a recent 2Mile Champion at Punchestown in April 1986 , and if Desert Orchid a couple of years later could humble the contemporary 2milers at Ascot, I would see a similar task as no great challenge to Arkle. Flyingbolt was extraordinary but I harbour a sneaking suspicion that, places swapped, Arkle would have won that Champion Hurdle, probably Dawn Run fashion, except perhaps by further.
@alipitogen No, what I said, was that I don't believe that Arkle wasn't as good over hurdles as Flyingbolt, and he may have struggled to run both so credibly wihtin 24 hours of each other, but I do not doubt for a second that Arkle could have won a Champion Chase.
@MrAddyginsh Thanks for clarifying.You might be right but I'm not sure. Arkle did hurdle early on but strangely enough he was a late developer and his class wasn't yet evident then.
@MrAddyginsh I won't strongly disagree.Your argument deserves great respect because you can obviously recognize greatness.The case of Flyingbolt was so unfortunate but, as you will surely agree, we can never now know.There have been also cases of flawed geniuses who might have challenged Arkle. I would like to ask the question 'how far would Arkle have been in front of Captain Christy in the 1975 King George?' I have to assume Arkle would have won but CC was extraordinary that day.
@alipitogen I know that we will never know who was better round the 26 furlongs of the Gold Cup, but what gets me is that younger people now only tend to know of Arkle and not Flyingbolt, and I believe that he is without question racing's greatest unsung hero. To be honest, I think sometimes things like what happened with the 2 horses are just meant to happen, because we are never meant to know. Must have been sore for Dreaper to accept what happened to the best 2 horses ever.
@MrAddyginsh We're on the same page. I'd have loved to have seen Arkle and Flyingbolt compete. I'd like also to be slightly older too, b.1963.(Only ever reason I wish that!) Mill House was a champion too, of course, and what I always say to myself is what if Mill House had preceded Arkle, by say four years? What if he had 3 Gold Cups won and Arkle had beaten a faded champion.Then we would not even have the true answer to Arkle v Mill House.That thought leads me to side with Arkle.
@alipitogen I obviously will side with Flyingbolt, but if Arkle would have been better, then Timeform, allotting Arkle 212, and Flyingbolt 210, hence a 2lb difference, is spot on. You're reference to Mill House is spot on, he, in my opinion, was one unlucky horse, for the timing of his career. But as much as I think Dreaper's 2 stars are the best 2 horses ever, I can spare a thought for Denman with 3 Gold Cup, runner-up positions.
@burkhillcomedy 2 great horses, as was millhouse, flying bolt needed to race against arkle and beat him to prove he was the best all of time and he never did it.
one of the saddest things about watcing arkle is the fact that tom dreaper never and wouldnt race stablemate flyingbolt against arkle he goes beyond the term unsung he was the only horse to carry a record handicap of 212 along with arkle, never fell, and due to arkles poor jumping he was certainly the only horse to possibly beat arkle or atleast shake him up im not trying to take anything away from arkle he will always be remembered as the greatest steeplechaser of all time
@kealano123 Arkle's poor jumping? Please explain. Arkle was a magnificient jumper and seldom made mistakes. He never fell in any of the 26 chases he contested.
julzyboy1973...best mate had nothing to beat......who have denman and k.s. beaten???? k.s is a flashy jumper prone to the sort of mistake that if the fences now were as they were in the sixtys would have been well and truly finished by now. with denman...a better horse fit than kauto star has like many others over the years including best mate just been very unlucky with illness. and if k.s. is such a great horse why doesnt nichols run him in h/caps......because he knows hes not good enough.
@philip1mus Best mate had health scares as a foal and was saved for his races. He gave 20lbs finishing 1/2 length behind in second. Arkle gave 35lbs to a horse which finished in second and 3rd in '65 and '65.
I've never heard it said by anyone else but I firmly believe that the best steeplechaser ever apart from the matchless Arkle was actually his rival, Mill House. To back up my point I would ask racing analysts to suggest another horse who would have given him a race over the last half mile at level weights such as Mill House did in 1964. If you want me to suggest one I would say Captain Christy in his 1975 King George Chase form, but I wouldn't be producing any money on it.
arkle the greates chaser that ever was and ever will be, he was unique and tho good horses will come and go they will never be a patch on the great arkle
Even the solid Cheltenham fences couldn't stop this equine superstar. It's an insult to his memory to talk about Kauto Star in the same breath as Arkle. If any handicapper were to put Kauto Star within a stone of Arkle he would be institutionalised.
peterboi98 makes a perfectly valid point in which he says that Arkle had developed arthritis when he was in his 13th year ,which would almost certainly have prevented him adding to his 3 Gold Cups. It is resonable to assume that an injury-free Arkle would have gone on to further Gold Cup glory.
There is no sensible dispute that Arkle was the greatest of all time, but there is one question that concerns me and that is how many gold cups would he have won had he not cracked his pedal bone. I know his fans think he would have matched Golden Millers record of 5 but I would point out that the great horse was put down at the young age of 13 with arthritus which was nothing to do with the original injury. I think he would probably have managed one more season before his disability showed
Arkle would have won 6 Gold Cups no question as endorsed recently by Paddy Woods his work rider.What A Myth who won in 1969 was also 12 same age as Arkle,and Arkle beat him giving him 3 stones aged 9 !!
Thanks for that - I was not born until '73 so would not know. Was it even a minor possibility that Arkle could have ever run in the National? Davy Lad & Alverton both did in the 70's. I think Denman could win the National even with 12 stone. In my life time Kauto & Denman are the best chasers I have seen. Best Mate had nothing to beat so hard to judge.
Arkles owner Anne Duchess of Westminster didn't want to risk him at Aintree as she didn't trust other horses around him falling and bringing him down,and to think if he hadn't been injured in the 1966 King George which ended his career,he could have gone for the 1967 Grand National and we all know what happened there at the 22nd fence when there was the biggest pile up in National history...though how ironic that his ex-stablemate Foinavon should go on and win it at 100/1 !
You are on crack, If Denman was fit he would have beaten Kauto in 09.
Arkle is miles better than anything else, Mill House is the third highest rated chaser ever and Arkle crushed him. You should read up on Arkle and watch him, out and out class.
It's called multi-tasking: entertaining the crowd. posing for photos, incidentally winning another Gold Cup, wondering why these so-called hard fences are so easy... Himself was pure class, pure and simple...
Let me throw in two unlucky horses whose careers was ruined by injury and untimely death. Two of Fred Winter`s cracking chasers Pendil & Killiney. Pendil lets not forget really was a brilliant chaser who was unlucky not to win at least a couple Gold Cups. And he was actually Favourite for the `77 Gold Cup having made a fantastic come-back from lengthy injury at the age of 12 before he got injured again. Killiney, well it`s anyones guess how good he could have been. He looked a superstar.
mervyncharter 5 days ago
I think I'll adopt Sir Peter O Sullevan's strategy when people get carried away with the here and now and doubt Arkle's vast superiority.He just allows himself a little knowing smile and says as little as possible.
alipitogen 3 weeks ago
Just look at Arkle rounding the home turn.Was that really a horse?This is Steve Ovett winning an Olympic 1500 metres, this is Michael Flatley pointing to his feet in Riverdance.The feckin' Son of a Bright Cherry is looking around to see if he knows anyone in the stands. That's a flat out gallop for mere mortals, and feck sake look at it, 3 miles on the clock in a Gold Cup and he's bloody idling! He's bored! What other horse has pissed home in a Gold Cup in that manner?
alipitogen 3 weeks ago
flyingbolt was probably better than arkle it was just that arkle was dreapers favourite. flyingbolt won the champion chase then a day later a close 3rd in the ch hurdle then won the irish national thats just unheard of today...please dont try to compare the likes of kauto star to these true legends...flyingbolt would beat kauto star with mcCririck on his back.
pmus1 1 month ago
@pmus1 Good one! Flying Bolt would beat Kauto Star that way alright -but Arkle would have won with McCrirrick having a row with Ted Walsh on his back!
alipitogen 3 weeks ago
Arkle was not a plodder. He still holds the course record at Sandown set when he was carrying 12st 7lbs.
44Rabbie 2 months ago
2 plodders look how slow they went.
TissuePrices 2 months ago
@TissuePrices That is an astounding comment. Look at other Gold Cup winners approaching the line and then look back at Arkle. Look particularly at their actions near the line. I'd say you could probably look at all of them and no other horse's action remains as extended as Arkle's up that stamina examining hill. Mention whoever you like and you will still see a more scraping action and never such an effortlessly turf-eating stride.
alipitogen 3 weeks ago
@alipitogen well ofcourse its easy to look like that against donkeys, thats the point im making, arkle did it in a weak era which makes him look better then he is
TissuePrices 3 weeks ago
Kauto star would have destroyed these plodders by a furlong, arkle incredibly slow.
TissuePrices 2 months ago
everybody that says arkle was the best ever and nothing holds a candle to him is been very unfair,flyingbolt for one was as good if not better and he proved it several times
burkhillcomedy 5 months ago
@burkhillcomedy There maybe doubts as to who was better. But there's no doubt that Flyingbolt was more versatile, possessed more stamina, and arguably was better at conceding weight. Like Arkle could've won the Champion Chase, and run a gallant 3rd in the Champion hurdle less than 24 hours later. LOL.
MrAddyginsh 5 months ago
@MrAddyginsh Do you doubt that Arkle could have won a Champion Chase? If Dawn Run could beat a recent 2Mile Champion at Punchestown in April 1986 , and if Desert Orchid a couple of years later could humble the contemporary 2milers at Ascot, I would see a similar task as no great challenge to Arkle. Flyingbolt was extraordinary but I harbour a sneaking suspicion that, places swapped, Arkle would have won that Champion Hurdle, probably Dawn Run fashion, except perhaps by further.
alipitogen 3 weeks ago
@alipitogen No, what I said, was that I don't believe that Arkle wasn't as good over hurdles as Flyingbolt, and he may have struggled to run both so credibly wihtin 24 hours of each other, but I do not doubt for a second that Arkle could have won a Champion Chase.
MrAddyginsh 3 weeks ago
@MrAddyginsh Thanks for clarifying.You might be right but I'm not sure. Arkle did hurdle early on but strangely enough he was a late developer and his class wasn't yet evident then.
alipitogen 3 weeks ago
@alipitogen Here's how I would see it, career achievements, Arkle is best, but in terms of ability, I would have to give the nod to Flyingbolt.
MrAddyginsh 3 weeks ago
@MrAddyginsh I won't strongly disagree.Your argument deserves great respect because you can obviously recognize greatness.The case of Flyingbolt was so unfortunate but, as you will surely agree, we can never now know.There have been also cases of flawed geniuses who might have challenged Arkle. I would like to ask the question 'how far would Arkle have been in front of Captain Christy in the 1975 King George?' I have to assume Arkle would have won but CC was extraordinary that day.
alipitogen 2 weeks ago
@alipitogen I know that we will never know who was better round the 26 furlongs of the Gold Cup, but what gets me is that younger people now only tend to know of Arkle and not Flyingbolt, and I believe that he is without question racing's greatest unsung hero. To be honest, I think sometimes things like what happened with the 2 horses are just meant to happen, because we are never meant to know. Must have been sore for Dreaper to accept what happened to the best 2 horses ever.
MrAddyginsh 2 weeks ago
@MrAddyginsh We're on the same page. I'd have loved to have seen Arkle and Flyingbolt compete. I'd like also to be slightly older too, b.1963.(Only ever reason I wish that!) Mill House was a champion too, of course, and what I always say to myself is what if Mill House had preceded Arkle, by say four years? What if he had 3 Gold Cups won and Arkle had beaten a faded champion.Then we would not even have the true answer to Arkle v Mill House.That thought leads me to side with Arkle.
alipitogen 1 week ago
@alipitogen I obviously will side with Flyingbolt, but if Arkle would have been better, then Timeform, allotting Arkle 212, and Flyingbolt 210, hence a 2lb difference, is spot on. You're reference to Mill House is spot on, he, in my opinion, was one unlucky horse, for the timing of his career. But as much as I think Dreaper's 2 stars are the best 2 horses ever, I can spare a thought for Denman with 3 Gold Cup, runner-up positions.
MrAddyginsh 1 week ago
@burkhillcomedy 2 great horses, as was millhouse, flying bolt needed to race against arkle and beat him to prove he was the best all of time and he never did it.
bhoy029 2 months ago
Agreed,it would have been in the top 3 races of all time,still we'll never know....Arkle would have won!!
Mrnick62P 10 months ago
one of the saddest things about watcing arkle is the fact that tom dreaper never and wouldnt race stablemate flyingbolt against arkle he goes beyond the term unsung he was the only horse to carry a record handicap of 212 along with arkle, never fell, and due to arkles poor jumping he was certainly the only horse to possibly beat arkle or atleast shake him up im not trying to take anything away from arkle he will always be remembered as the greatest steeplechaser of all time
kealano123 10 months ago
@kealano123 Arkle's poor jumping? Please explain. Arkle was a magnificient jumper and seldom made mistakes. He never fell in any of the 26 chases he contested.
ThefightingCelt 10 months ago
at level weight no horse then & now could hold a candle to Himself,a true class act
Mrnick62P 1 year ago
my cousin trained arkle
footstatic 2 years ago
julzyboy1973...best mate had nothing to beat......who have denman and k.s. beaten???? k.s is a flashy jumper prone to the sort of mistake that if the fences now were as they were in the sixtys would have been well and truly finished by now. with denman...a better horse fit than kauto star has like many others over the years including best mate just been very unlucky with illness. and if k.s. is such a great horse why doesnt nichols run him in h/caps......because he knows hes not good enough.
philip1mus 2 years ago
@philip1mus Best mate had health scares as a foal and was saved for his races. He gave 20lbs finishing 1/2 length behind in second. Arkle gave 35lbs to a horse which finished in second and 3rd in '65 and '65.
Nothing was close to Arkle
jkamwal2 11 months ago
I've never heard it said by anyone else but I firmly believe that the best steeplechaser ever apart from the matchless Arkle was actually his rival, Mill House. To back up my point I would ask racing analysts to suggest another horse who would have given him a race over the last half mile at level weights such as Mill House did in 1964. If you want me to suggest one I would say Captain Christy in his 1975 King George Chase form, but I wouldn't be producing any money on it.
alipitogen 2 years ago
arkle the greates chaser that ever was and ever will be, he was unique and tho good horses will come and go they will never be a patch on the great arkle
fleetmaze2 2 years ago
Even the solid Cheltenham fences couldn't stop this equine superstar. It's an insult to his memory to talk about Kauto Star in the same breath as Arkle. If any handicapper were to put Kauto Star within a stone of Arkle he would be institutionalised.
tarqogan 2 years ago
peterboi98 makes a perfectly valid point in which he says that Arkle had developed arthritis when he was in his 13th year ,which would almost certainly have prevented him adding to his 3 Gold Cups. It is resonable to assume that an injury-free Arkle would have gone on to further Gold Cup glory.
tarqogan 2 years ago
myraidofmemories Arkle would give Kauto and Denman a stone and still win by 10 lengths .This fella won the Irish national off 13 stone
kezanator100 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
not exactly a great jumper was he. much overrated, would be lucky to get near denman/kauto today.
myriadofmemories 2 years ago
I hope you're being ironic.
24 chases, 22 wins - no falls = great jumper, great horse.
Kauto and Denman have both fell.
Would have carried both Denman and Kauto Star and still have won.
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
More likely to be tongue in cheek, MrPapaBill. Let's face it only a cretin could come out with a statement like that and mean it.
tarqogan 2 years ago
you been drinking
birddog8946 2 years ago
arkle would have run around twice and beaten them both
birddog8946 2 years ago
i agree its a pity they raced denman unfit, in2008 he murdered them
littlebay75 2 years ago
There is no sensible dispute that Arkle was the greatest of all time, but there is one question that concerns me and that is how many gold cups would he have won had he not cracked his pedal bone. I know his fans think he would have matched Golden Millers record of 5 but I would point out that the great horse was put down at the young age of 13 with arthritus which was nothing to do with the original injury. I think he would probably have managed one more season before his disability showed
peterboi98 2 years ago
Arkle would have won 6 Gold Cups no question as endorsed recently by Paddy Woods his work rider.What A Myth who won in 1969 was also 12 same age as Arkle,and Arkle beat him giving him 3 stones aged 9 !!
ArkleSupreme 2 years ago
Arkle won his Gold Cups in a canter,
seattlerob7 2 years ago
Did Mill House run in 66 GC - I know he fell in 67 & 68. What happened to him in 66?
julzyboy1973 2 years ago
He didn't run as his connections knew it was futile as he had been demolished in their last four meetings !!
ArkleSupreme 2 years ago
Thanks for that - I was not born until '73 so would not know. Was it even a minor possibility that Arkle could have ever run in the National? Davy Lad & Alverton both did in the 70's. I think Denman could win the National even with 12 stone. In my life time Kauto & Denman are the best chasers I have seen. Best Mate had nothing to beat so hard to judge.
julzyboy1973 2 years ago
Arkles owner Anne Duchess of Westminster didn't want to risk him at Aintree as she didn't trust other horses around him falling and bringing him down,and to think if he hadn't been injured in the 1966 King George which ended his career,he could have gone for the 1967 Grand National and we all know what happened there at the 22nd fence when there was the biggest pile up in National history...though how ironic that his ex-stablemate Foinavon should go on and win it at 100/1 !
ArkleSupreme 2 years ago
So she was considering him for '67. Probably would have had to carry 13 stone.
The Duchess of Westminster won it with Last Suspect. My Dad won a nice few quid on him in '85. Got on at 50/1
julzyboy1973 2 years ago
Himself !
Merseyspook 2 years ago
in yesterdays gold cup did kauto star not put up a performance to rival arkle? is denman the new mill house
liddy92 3 years ago
you must be new to racing kid........answer is no.
ogrady909 2 years ago
That's another and very definite NO
Not within a stone mate sorry
Stanters1967 2 years ago
You are on crack, If Denman was fit he would have beaten Kauto in 09.
Arkle is miles better than anything else, Mill House is the third highest rated chaser ever and Arkle crushed him. You should read up on Arkle and watch him, out and out class.
maxtudor 2 years ago 2
Irish folklore will tell you he was busy winking at the crowd, forgot about the fence!!
cmacmuiris 3 years ago 2
Probably had has mind on his evening feed.
francilius 3 years ago
I agree. We'll never see the likes of this again.
december2364 3 years ago 2
Elliesweetie
one mistake in his whole jumping career
simply the best!
littlebay75 3 years ago 2
It's called multi-tasking: entertaining the crowd. posing for photos, incidentally winning another Gold Cup, wondering why these so-called hard fences are so easy... Himself was pure class, pure and simple...
marsvltor2 2 years ago
Unequaled and probably unequalable.
tigerarmyrule 3 years ago 2