Once a liar always a liar. If they are capable of staging all this, they are capable of making the world believe their "poor" condition. End of story.
Go to work! instead of flipping running like maniacs on the street.
Once a liar always a liar. If they are capable of staging all this, they are capable of making the world believe their "poor" condition. End of story.
I don't know!!! This video is hilarious!!!! but still as a middle-eastern and an arab we ca't deny that people has actually been killed for real in that infected area, and from both sides! I don't know who made this video, if it's and organisation or just an ordinary person, youtube allows 9 : 59 mins for videos, why is this 18??!!! how did they get all this information and with close up shots, are those ppl so stupid to reveal all their plans? it looks really made up! we just want peace
All of the gunfire in ALL of the "Martyrs Crossing" footage on the internet is 7.62x39mm judguing from the sound.The IDF's 5.56x45mm bullets make a high pitched whine and a sharper cracking sound.The average IDF trooper can hit a man in the torso at 400 meters yet these people are all walking around without any fear within that range? Too bad only soldiers know the difference while the ignorant actually believe this pallywood bullshit,LOL
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Israel, you people are barbarians, why must you insist on expelling everyone who isn't a jew? Isn't that the purest definition of racism? I really have contempt for collectivists. True bigots.
Just to inform you, Arabs, Jews, christians all live in Israel. Not sue where you got your information that Israel expels non Jews. Many non Jews live around the country. Don't believe me, go there and see it with your own eyes. I have.
There's 3/4 of a Million Arab Israeli citizens who intentionally choose to be citizens of Israel.They vote in Israel's elections,have complete representation in the Knesset,own businesses,homes and have 10x the quality of life of the Hamas ruled maniacs on the other side of the wall.All Arabs who weren't nuts chose to flee to the Israeli side and do not regret it.Arabs like Druze,Bedhoins who lived there before long Palestine was invented in the 1920's by Haj Amin Al Husseini and Khalidi THRIVE
are you aware of the false flag terror caused by international spy agencies or Mossad? They are financed by weapons dealers and Zionists to inflame tensions between these people. and allow order out of chaos.
Israel is using the false flag terror, as well as real incidents to oppress the palestinians and steal their land.
Remember USS Liberty? False flag terror plot. Israel is not an innocent victim.
There was never any doubt that Clinton would not be able to bring peace. Israel has tried again and again to be peaceful. How much of their land do they need to give away? They have given enough. The only way there will be peace is when one of them is defeated.
Yes it does idiot. Israelis have long lived there, long before Constantine called the land "Palestine". Therefore, it is Israel's land and it will be forever!
Good. That land does belong to Israel you moron. They have been there long before Constantine called the land "Palestine". There is no such thing as palestinians unless they are still under Constantine's rule. Therefore, Judah is still Judah, and Israel, is still Israel. Get out of ISRAEL'S LAND!
The long view is that the tiny nation of Israel has survived for thousands of years- and has returned to its land. Hundreds of millions of Muslims can't stop it. All it has done has caused the Muslims to suffer.
You better think long and hard about that. Allah is not with you. He is with Israel.
If you define Orthodox as non-Zionist, then you don't know what Orthodox is. It isn't just the Jews who excommunicate these few anti-zionists; it is the masses of religious Jews.
History is proving these Orthodox Jews correct. The Jewish nation is returning to its land. In the history of man, no other nation has. Israel has many times.
I'm not sure if you're aware, but the entire religious Jewish world excommunicated those few anti-zionist nutters.
Did you know that the largest "settlement" in the "West Bank" is made up of ultra-Orthodox Jews? Or that the ultra-Orthodox Shas party is in the Israeli government? Every Israeli government includes religious parties.
It wasn't the Arabs' house to begin with. The nation of Israel returned to its own house. Arabs ALSO decided to move to Israel's house then. I read just yesterday that the (Arab) mayor of Nablus is someone named Masri. Masri in Arabic means Egyptian.
In any case, the more they fight, the more the Arabs will suffer. You see it happening daiy. Israel keeps getting stronger, including economically and in terms of population, and hundreds of millions of you folks can't stop it.
No saracharleston, it's TERRORISM; not "resistance". The Arabs could have had peace and a state. There was nothing to "resist". They chose the path of violence and bloodshed instead.
Israel will be around for a LONG time, but the Arabs will not be. All polls indicate that 33% or more would leave if they could, and it will only get worse.
The would-be 'Palestinians' would be murderers but the IDF has been successful in stopping them- for the most part.
The would-be 'Palestinians' didn't have to start wars in the first place. They did anyway and they lost. Tough luck. Boo-hoo. Move on. It's over for them.
You can bury your head in the sand but I won't. Every single day- bar none, we see them murdering innocent people with suicide bombers, shootings, beheadings, etc. Even their own.
Brilliantly made and very thought provoking film. In Northern Ireland we suffer too from 'sound-byte' journalism and distorted reporting that has been tainted by a mixture of liberalism and laziness. Research the news, and don't be a blind consumer!
Intolerance is Islam, where non-Moslems can't even VISIT Mecca or Medina, where non-Moslems MUST live under intolerant Islamic rule as dhimmi with no rights- or die.
Your religion teaches that cold blooded murder is admirable.
There's no such thing as 'Palestine'- thank God. Your cut of death shouldn't have yet another launching board for murder.
Intolerance in it's ugliest form. Tell me Jimmy....does your religion teach you to hate so blindly the way you do or is it just the environment that you were raised in???
BTW I'm no Philistine, I'm Falistiniyya, there's a diff, I'm Arab, and the old Philistines were European or something like that.
more excuses to take the focus off what's really going on---the systematic murder and expulsion of the arab palestinians, of which i am one. my family has many stories of hate and fear and death. i believe if the world heard their stories, shit like this wouldn't be validated.
No intifada, no killing. Today Arab Palestinians die when they wage war on Israel or they kill each other in faction fighting. The Palestinian people deserve justice, but not via terror and the genocidal ambitions of Hamas.
Israel is not the country but the town of people who try to dealojar to the Palestinians of their properties. .el Palestinian territory that are coveted by the Jews, these the diero to know like the PROMISED Earth, highly indicative fact that our territory and our countries they were throughout an historical period, representing for them the dream, the imagination and the legend but never the truth
In the last 6 years, more than 4000 Palestinians were killed by the Israeli Army and Israeli settlers, including more than 800 children and 300 women. And if you're still unsure, how about the 70 UN resolutions Israel is STILL violating.
Please stop spamming this video with the same comment already answered below. We know most of those were militants and the civilians mostly killed when those militants used them as human shields or recklessly attacked the IDF with civilians in the crossfire.
That "human shield" thing is getting really old in a hurry. Of course Palestinian militants attack the Israeli Army inside Palestinian streets, that's where the occupation is! Oh, and less than 1/4th of Palestinian casualties "took part in the hostilities" and that means anything from flinging rocks at soldiers to fighting the Israeli tanks occupying Palestinian villages.
In the last 6 years, more than 4000 Palestinians were killed by the Israeli Army and Israeli settlers, including more than 800 children and 300 women. The Palestinians don't need to fake it, the numbers alone speak volumes about Israeli terrorism.
They started the second Intifada and persist in trying to wipe out Israel. In terms of casualties the percentage of Israeli women and children killed is vastly higher than the Palestinians thanks to the deliberate targeting of women and children by Hamas et al. And anyway, as videos like this show, always double check any Palestinian claim. Even videos lie...
Actually, even in percentage terms the ratio of Palestinian children killed (20%) is higher than the ratio of Israeli children killed (18%) relative to overall civillian casualties on each side. Of course, when Israeli Army casualties are included in the Israeli count the ratio of Israeli children killed drops to 10%, HALF the Palestinian children ratio. Of course, there are 8 times as many Palestinian children killed as Israeli children. Oh, and all numbers are from an Israeli HRO.
So children of soldiers don't count?! The fact is that (1) the intifada is waged by Hamas and others in the crowded west bank and gaza (2) they deliberately use human shield and endanger children (3) all deaths of civilians killed by Israel are accidental (4) all civilians killed by Palestinians are deliberately killed.
No, what I said is that the Israeli children killed ratio is smaller than the Palestinian children killed ratio wether you calculate it relative to Israeli civillian deaths of Israeli deaths total (civillians+active soldiers). But it drops to half the Palestinian ratio in the latter case.
Sorry. I thought you were somehow counting children as soldiers. Still does not change the fact that Palestinians deliberately target civilians whereas the Israelis don't. That crucial moral distinction colours the statistics significantly.
Its 26th January 20007. Not even the IDF can kill that many militants and terrorists in 26 days. They nearly did last year though. I hope they get a chance to finish the job.
this is hogwash, you can't take away the fact that palestinian civilians are denude of their rights and the idf can intrude into their houses anytime any day, in their own land, whilst beating up their kids in front of their eyes. it's the nature of a debased morally power hungry entity.
That is the poorest argument I have seen in these comments. You have not attacked a single fact or argument in the video, instead you repeat the claims that Palestinian propaganda makes. The video shows that Palestinians cannot be trusted because they pump out fake news. You are a victi9m of that propaganda. Nil Points.
i'm not arguing, it's called a comment, and you're riding in one high horse thinking i'm the victim of this 'illustrious' propganda.
--as if biased yellow journalism and disinformations was wrought out of the back alley of a vacant ruinous lot in gaaza strip once owned by a 4th generation palestinian family but had it demolished because IDF. wrong. are you kidding me?
The video is educational. You have benefited from it, even if it was painful for you to watch. You have been sold a lie, and this video helps expose that lie.
The idea that people scurrying to help injured adolescents, however awkwardly, and ambulances rushing to the scene of shootings IN A WARZONE are somehow faking it is absolutely MORONIC. If you were in a warzone for ONE DAY and saw a young person getting SHOT by an occupying army, you'd do the same thing. And for your courage and compassion, you'd probably be called a "faker" as well.
nobody is to be trusted every information has either been construed by conglomorate corporations who bend at the will of those who has money. IDF backed by 1.8 billion by an annual american war fund -- western jurno's gonna pay them more heed.
Strangely you support my thesis. The standard corporate media narrative in Israel / Palestine is Israeli bad guy, Palestinian victim. It takes tiny independent media outlets and independent film-makers to bring you the truth.
go keep posting your videos while nettling your panties wound up in a wad because an individual spoke his mind. but realize muslims in their own homeland are being undermined and treated as 2ND class citizen because some white westerners claimed it's theirs. and they have america to back them up to say it is so.
Half of you anti-Israeli nuts claim that anti-Semitism cannot exist because they claim Israelis are Semites and so are Palestinians. The other half try and make this a race issue with an imperialist narrative. You are all wrong. Not even the Palestinians deny the historical rights of Israelis to a homeland on that territory. There were Jews living there for centuries before Islam even existed!
The issue is neither religious nor racial. The issue is the expulsion of Palestinians from their homes to create a Jewish only state. "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. There is not one single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist." Former Israeli Army Chief of Staff Moshe Dayan
Nice try. This is a famous misquote. See moshedayan DOT notlong DOT com for the full correct quote plus context. It reverses the implied meaning of this attempted slander.
No it doesn't, I've read the original quote, and the one I put is simply abridged to fit the 500 character limit. It's a response to the preposterous claims that there was no such thing as Palestinians, that the Jewish immigrants just settled an empty land. There WERE Palestinians (Jewish, Christian and Muslim) but the non-Jewish elements were expelled through massacres and intimidation.
No one claimed there were no Palestinians. You dreamed that bit. As for expulsions, they did not happen. The new state of Israel was invaded by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iraq. It was their intention to annihilate the Jews. They failed. 700,000 Palestinians refugees fled the battlefield. The idea being to return once Israel was destroyed. They never returned.
The Palestinians "fled the battlefield" because of massacres like Deir-Yassin and Al-Dawayima. "They never returned" because they were never allowed to: "Arabs cross to collect the grain that they left in the abandoned villages and we set mines for them and they go back without an arm or a leg." Former Israeli Army Chief of Staff Moshe Dayan
There were atrocities on both sides. It stared with the Arabs massacring Jews at Kfar Etzion. Jewish women and children fled too. Unfortunately for the Arabs, they lost the war they started. Since they never stopped trying to prosecute that war, the price has been deracination. I genuinely pity them, but they have mostly themselves to blame. They also deserve a homeland too but there will be no relief for them whilst they continue to wage war on Israel.
In the last 6 years, more than 4000 Palestinians were killed by the Israeli Army and Israeli settlers, including more than 800 children and 300 women. The Palestinians don't need to fake it, the numbers alone speak volumes about Israeli terrorism.
They are victims of the Intifada. They wage a war of annihilation against their neighbours and we are supposed to pity their casualties? They consistently scupper the peace process and regardless of Israeli concessions, they keep on attacking Israel. Palestinians will stop being killed by the IDF as soon as they stop attempting to murder Israelis.
Most terror they experience is as a direct consequence of the actions of Palestinian terrorists operating amongst them to attack Israel. Israeli harassment is caused by counter-terrorism operations. No terrorists, no harassment. When Israel withdraws (as they did in Gaza) their "reward" is rocket attacks and kidnappings.
Isreal killed 1,000 civilians in Lebanon in the most recent conflict. They left approximately one million unexploded cluster bombs in South Lebanon villages. It's too bad Lebanese children are not worth as much as Israeli children.
Incorrect. Some Lebanese civilians were killed when they refused to leave a combat zone from which terrorists were deliberately targeting Israeli civilians - despite warnings! Of course Israeli children are worth more to Israelis than Lebanese children. They are not mad. Only Islamists loons like Hezbollah believe in sacrificing the innocent for political expedience.
I notice you don't quote your source; If you are just making up "facts", why don't you admit it? Why shouldn't Lebanese children be precious to everyone? Aren't all children a precious gift of God?
You (perhaps intentionally) have missed my point. When Lebanese and Iranian terrorists are firing rockets into Israel attempting to kill Israeli civilians, should the Israelis sacrifice their children to avoid harming Lebanese children? That is a very tall order. Would you sacrifice your kids for the sake of those of a murderous neighbour attacking you?
Which facts are you disputing? (1) That civilians were killed (2) that they were warned (3) that Israeli children value their own children higher than their enemies or (4) that Hezbollah do not believe in using martyrs including child martyrs? Which fact am I making up?
I don't know what got Hezbollah into this conversation, they are a LEBANESE resistance group. But since you mention it, hey have never used children or suicide bombers. They have never attacked Israeli civillians except as retaliation for Israeli attacks on Lebanese civillians and even then, they use unguided, small-payload rockets which are an instrument of disruption, not killing.
Hezbollah use children as human shields. It is Hamas that uses child suicide bombers. The retaliation argument is specious. Both Hezbollah and Hamas have continued to attack Israeli civilians (killing and wounding hundreds) with both suicide bombings and deadly rocket attacks regardless of Israeli withdrawals and concessions. This conforms with their stated aims of wiping the Jews off the face of the earth. The Qassam 3 has a 10kg warhead - same as a large suicide bomb belt. Small payload, hah!
Whether you consider it specious or not, it is supported by the facts. In the last war on Lebanon, Israel launched strikes against civillian infrastructure and RESIDENTIAL AREAS, as retaliation for the capture of two SOLDIERS by Hizbullah, intended to be realeased as part of a prisoner exchange to free Lebanese civillians held in Israel without being charged or prosecuted and being tortured by their Israeli captors.
Hezbollah opened hostilities by capturing 2 soldiers and KILLING 8. Israel struck back at Hezbollah's infrastructure and launched minimal temporary disabling strikes on resupply routes to Hezbollah. The prisoner story is rubbish. There were at the time of the Hezbollah attack fewer Lebanese nationals in Israeli prisons than in BRITISH prisons! Every terrorist uses excuses, but seemingly you uncritically accept all of them!
Israel and Lebanon are in a state of war, attacking military personnel of an ennemy state is not considered terrorism, in fact there was a time when people had the courage to call it RESISTANCE. And as long as there is ONE civillian in Israeli prisons without being charged or prosecuted and being tortured by their Israeli captors, there is a legitimate reason to attack the Israeli Army.
You are factually wrong. At the time of the attack and even now there was NO state of war between Israel and Lebanon. The attack came 6 years after Israel withdrew from Lebanon in full (as certified by the UN). Hezbollah say there are FOUR Lebanese prisoners in Israeli prisoners. There are SEVENTEEN in UK jails! In both Israel and the UK they are all convicted criminals. You are being suckered by the most primitive misinformation and lies. Check these facts yourself.
There has been no peace treaty, no truce AND Israel had kept violating Lebanese airspace, territorial waters and crossing the borders, sometimes randomly abducting civillians. This is why in 2004 (that's after the "withdrawal"), Hizbullah exchanged an Israeli intelligence officer for 430+ prisonners in Israeli jails. And by the way, in addition to the 4 prisonners, there are DOZENS named by the LEBANESE GOVERNMENT, who have been abducted by the Israeli Army.
Wrong. There is no state of war between Israel and Lebanon and Hezbollah itself claims there are only four Lebanese in Israeli jails. And since when did it become OK to use rocket attacks on civilians to try and solve diplomatic and political issues? When did it become OK to murder Israeli civilians as a bargaining chip for the release of 4 Lebanese convicted murderers?
AGAIN, Hizbullah didn't start throwing rockets on Israeli settlements until the Israeli Army started shelling RESIDENTIAL areas in Lebanon. The capture of Israeli SOLDIERS was Hizbullah's operation to free Lebanese prisoners held in Israeli jails WITHOUT BEING CHARGED OR PROSECUTED.
Hez and Hamas rocketed Israeli civilians BEFORE the capture of the Israeli soldiers by each of them. They were acting in concert with near identical operations (raid + rockets). Also, there are no Lebanese prisoners held without charge in Israel. If there were, do you honestly believe that rocketing civilians and murderous cross border raids are the way to deal with the issue? If military action is legitimate way to settle grievances, how can you object to any Israeli military action?
Again, for the third time, Hezbollah did NOT rocket Israeli civillians before Israel attacked civillian residential areas in Lebanon. Hezbollah DID use rockets on ISRAELI MILITARY positions DURING the operation to capture the Israeli soldiers. Please get you facts straight before reapeating the same claim over and over again.
I keep telling you that Hamas and Hezbollah were (and are) acting in concert. Google "Hizbullah paying for Kassam attacks". They are allies in a joint enterprise. Hamas rockets are the same as Hezbollah rockets. Additionally, Hezbollah has repeatedly attacked Israel since 2000. The Hamas-Hezbollah axis has never stopped attempting to massacre Israeli civilians regardless of Israeli concessions. If Israel fought like Hezbollah, Lebanon would be a radioactive ash pile today.
Even the Israeli government didn't say they attacked Hizbullah because of Hamas actions. Until further notice, the Israeli pretext for launching the campaign against Lebanon and the killing of 1000+ Lebanese civillians was an operation to retrieve the two captured Israeli soldiers.
Hezbollah opened hostilities. They attacked across international borders. This is Casus Belli. The is no need for a pretext. It was a measured response to an act of war. Most of those "civilians" were Hezbollah who as usual were in civilian clothes exploiting Israeli restraint and rules of engagement. I mean when have Arab/Islamist armies or militants EVER tried to avoid enemy civilian casualties? NEVER.
Really? 1000+ Lebanese civillians dead and 1000000+ refugees were all Hizbullah operatives? Hostilities never stopped in southern Lebanon with Israeli incursion and abduction of civillians still commonplace. And Hizbullah DID try to avoid further Israeli civillian casualties by not targetting the Haifa chemical plants which they could have easily done with their guided long-range, heavy payload, missiles the use of which they reserved to Israeli military bases.
I said "Most of those "civilians" were Hezbollah who as usual were in civilian clothes". How was deliberately targeting civilians avoiding civilian casualties? They could have used ALL their rockets against the army and I would have no grounds for complaint. If Hezbollah had attacked Haifa's chemical plants - an attempt at mass murder - Israel would justifiably nuked Tehran and the Bekah valley. There are limits to Israeli restraint and Hezbollah (and their Iranian backers) know it.
Hizbullah attacks Israeli civillian areas as a response to Israeli attacks on Lebanese civillians. The rockets they use on civillians are easily spotted by radar and do not break through bomb shelters, they are weapons of disruption, not death. And, the way the security council blatantly refused to call for a cease fire for weeks, if it weren't for these attacks on Israeli civillians and their effect on Israeli public opinion , the Israeli campaign might have been pursued until now.
I simply do not believe Hezbollah's justifications. The deliberate targeting of civilians is beyond the Pale. Those "weapons of disruption" killed 49 civilians! They are a deadly indiscriminate weapon designed to kill and maim. Please answer my earlier question: If the deliberate targeting of civilians justified, how can you complain about accidental civilian casualties?
49 Israeli civillian casualties versus 1000+ Lebanese casualties, in the same timeframe. Who's the terrorist here? Answering your question is simple: Hizbullah captured 2 SOLDIERS from country Lebanon is at war with, Israel starts bombing residential areas, the security council does NOT call for a cease fire (it's primary function in any conflict), Hizbullah throws rockets on Israeli military bases and civillian areas, Israeli public opinion is sick of staying in shelters, war stops.
Deliberately targeting civilians is the crime. Lebanon and Israel were not at war! It was an aggressive and unprovoked attack on Israel. Israel wiped out Hezbollah assets after warning civilians to vacate, the Hezbollah propaganda machine faked Qana. Israel ran out of diplomatic capital. UN promised to enforce South Lebanon demilitarized zone. Hostilities suspended...for now.
"Hezbollah FAKED Qana"? As in they killed those dozens of women and children, threw them under the rubble of the destroyed shelter and pretended it was the work of the Israelis? Because that's what FAKED means. A relief worker pointing to the victims for a press crew doesn't constitute FAKING. What Hezbollah "assets" are you referring to? The Beirut airport? Bridges all over the country? Dairy and Lumber factories? Hospitals? Residential city blocks?
Bodies were shipped in by freezer truck then the whole thing was staged for journalists. Google "qana fake" and read for yourself. Hezbollah assets means anything owned by Hezbollah. Some minor disabling strikes were used against possible resupply routes (like the airport). Instead of using runway destroying bombs they used small bombs to cause minimal damage. They were incredibly restrained.
Well of course, if anonymous bloggers say it, it must be true. Do me a favor and read the theory you wrote again, honestly. And what about the 1000+ other civillian casualties? They were imported from abroad perhaps. And attacking the Beirut airport 7 times (6 times to keep the fire in the fuel dump going) constitutes a little more than "minor damage". Israeli officials STATED that they were targetting residential areas as retaliation. What more do you need?
They lay out very good evidence, which is what I would like from you. You portray this absurd view of Israel as murderous aggressors when they are the victims of murderous aggression. Do you honestly think Israel would have unleashed its armed forces if Hezbollah had left them alone? Hezbollah invited the Israeli response .
All I've been doing is presenting fact and figures straight from UN sources, you're the one repeating half-baked conspiracy theories. Do I think Israel would have done if left alone? The Israeli Army has been going into Lebanese territory repeatedly, abducting farmers and fishermen, so what's to believe?
This is where you need to do some research. Hezbollah has waged near constant attacks on Israel since the withdrawl. It is a matter of historical record. What is a state supposed to do when it is repeatedly attacked in this way? Just take it? Hezbollah (and Iran) and Hamas have a unified goal: Annihilation of Israel. Do you support that ambition?
Hizbullah has taken a political commitment towards the Lebanese government to disarm once the Lebanese prisoners are released, maps for Israeli minefields in southern Lebanon and withdrawal from the Shebaa farms, so "annihilation of Israel" is not on the agenda.
Wrong again! On February 16, 1985 Sheik Ibrahim al-Amin publicly declared the group's manifesto, which included three goals: (1) Eradication of Western imperialism in Lebanon, (2) Transformation of Lebanon's democracy into an Islamic state, (3) *Complete destruction of the state of Israel*. This is the agenda you support! Sheba Farms is Syrian. Is war the way to solve a dispute over 35sq km of Syrian desert? 4 Lebanese criminals in Israeli prisons, 17 in UK prisons, OK to rocket London?
That was 1985, we're now in 2006 and Hizbullah has made commitments. As for the Shebaa farms, the Syrian government has declared them to be Lebanese. In any case they are not Israeli. Add to that the minefield maps and the Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails, and you've got a case for armed conflict. The question you should ask yourself, is why doesn't Israel give up "35sq km of Syrian desert" they have no right to realease the prisoners and settle this whole thing?
What commitments? They have INCREASED their militancy and aggression. Armed conflict is last resort and you have complained bitterly about the civilian toll of armed conflict! Are you insane? An unrestrained Israel could annihilate all their neighbours combined. Is that what you want? Be careful what you wish for. Every time the Arabs have try armed conflict, they suffer.
First-off, Hizbullah has NOT increased their attacks on teh Israeli Army, since 2000, or since 1990 and, most importantly they have been attacking the ISRAELI OCCUPATION ARMY, only launching rocket attacks on Israeli settlements when the Israeli Army specifically targets Lebanese civillians as it has done in 1993 and 1996 (and sporadically ever since). The very CREATION of Hizbullah was in response to the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon.
Hezbollah are Iran's foreign legion. Their paymasters have recently upped their rhetoric and aggression. They model themselves on the Nazis, with Nazi salutes and all. They have the same stated aims: Annihilate the Jews. Since you admire, support and defend them, is it fair to assume you have Nazi sympathies?
I don't have to admire any Lebanese resistance group to support the legitimacy of their attacking Israeli occupation forces. Regarding the Iranian claim, Hizbullah's fighters are all Lebanese and all their candidates to the Lebanese Parliamentary elections have been elected.
Finally, it's always nice to see pro-Israel zealots turn to the Nazism accusation when faced with facts condemning the policies of the state of Israel. If I were an anti-semitic, I'd be as antagonistic towards Palestinians as I am towards the state of Israel. If I were anti-Jewish, I wouldn't have quoted the Jewish organizations or the Israeli parties calling for the dismantlment of the state of Israel, so let's keep the cheap rhetoric to a minimum, shall we...
You mean like those Jews who were at the holocaust conference in Iran last month? Do you believe that there was a European holocaust during WW2 and that around 6 million Jews were killed? I am keen to limn the extent of your anti-Israel/Anti-Jewish sentiments.
That's right, keep going, keep writing anti-semitism until your fingers hurt, that's what pro-Israeli zealots do when they can't face sourced, objective FACTS that show that the STATE of Israel has racist, segregationist and terrorist policies.
It appears that our positions are unreconcilable at this point. I support the right of the Palestinians to have a state. I also support the right of Israel to exists in peace. I believe there will ultimately be a political solution and that Palestinian militancy and aggression against Israel retards that solution and needlessly squanders lives and goodwill. You seem to hate Israel and want it destroyed. There is no compromising with that position.
Hate or love has nothing to do with a matter of historical record. The state of Israel's creation and many of its policies so far have been contrary to principles YOU and I hold dear (segregationist laws, disposession of lands) which have nothing to do with the ongoing conflict, ie: they are not tied to security measures. Now regarding the solution, or the way forward...
...The two state solution seems to be the only feasible one (although it is far from the ideal solution: one state where Palestinians and Israelis can live as equals, like it was before 1948). However, the two state solution means the dismantlement of Israeli colonies in the West Bank and the right of return for Palestinian REFUGEES. The commitment to both of these would not undermine the security of Israel, yet Israeli governments have systematically refused them.
So we agree on the two state solution as being the most likely to succeed. I also agree that the settlers should be withdrawn from the West Bank. I consider the settler program to have been a grave error and Israel's biggest mistake. Right of return for refugees of 50 years ago is no longer feasible. Those 700,000 people have become 3 million. Do you think the 16 million ethnic Germans flushed out of Eastern Europe should return too? It is too late for those Palestinians.
Fantastic, I'm really glad we're coming to a positive debate after the facts have been layed down. But you have pointed out to the most tragic facet of this conflict: that with enough political intransigence and military dominance, the most basic rights of entire populations can be slowly erased and their restitution becomes "unfeasible". This is what is slowly happening with the settlements in the West Bank, which have slowly but surely become "impossible" to remove.
That is the nature of the world. Deracination and mass human migrations are the true substance of history. The Palestinian people have ended up dispossessed but this is no way solely due to Israeli wrongdoing. Palestinians themselves and Israel's neighbours have contributed massively to the impasse today.
And I agree, it's very difficult to imagine reintegrating millions of Palestinian refugees into Israel, but it is their RIGHT to living in their lands, a right they have been consistantly denied by Israel ever since 1948. And so simply dismissing the right of return as Israel has been doing is extremely cynical.
This is tricky. There is a legal right to ones land and property but there are situation where it is nearly impossible redress historical wrongs. One example is here in the Balkans. 200,000 Serbs were deracinated from the Krajina region of Croatia. They just cannot go back or there would be Kosovo like ethnic bloodshed. Instead they are settled in Serbia (as refugees) and there is a process to compensate them (from the Croatian government). This is what I think could work for Israel.
But then again, why is the right of return impossible to bear (in practical terms) by Israel? Since the 1990s there have been flows of immigrants into Israel reaching record numbers unseen since the 1950s, a direct result of Israeli policies to encourage immigration. Under Israeli laws and institutions, any person in the world of Jewish descent, can not only become Israeli citizens, but receive considerable financial support to settle in Israel.
Israel is a special case and everyone knows it. Because of the holocaust they were thrown a bone by the European powers and the Palestinians ultimately paid for it. Only way for Israel to even consider repatriation of refugees is if the security situation was stable. As it is today, with its existence under threat, it would be suicide to invite millions of hostile Arabs within its borders. It will never happen. Thus: You have your state, we have ours.
You're right, it is a tricky situation. However, Israel's security would not be undermined by taking a POLITICAL commitment to pull-out the settlements and/or giving the right of return to Palestinian refugees. In fact, those would most realistially drastically reduce militantism in the West Bank and fulfill two of the very reasons for this militantism.
Pulling out the settlements is something I favour. I do however understand Israeli security concerns when one considers what happened in Gaza (daily rocket attacks into Israel) and Israel's strategic vulnerability when the buttresses of Golan Heights and the West Bank are are removed. As for right of return, there needs to be some other solution. Perhaps it is ceding more territory to the Palestinians but massive settlement within Israeli borders will not be acceptable to Israelis.
And what's wrong with asking for the dismantlement of a segregationist, terrorist regime like that of Israel and its replacement by a state for all its inhabitants? Haredi Jewish organizations and left wing Israeli parties have been asking for this since 1948. In fact, the Grand Rabbi of Jerusalem in that time was AGAINST the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.
You want to dismantle the only liberal democracy in the region and hand the territory to Hamas? Pah! Your "dismantlement" involves the genocide of 6 million Jews. Nuclear armed Israel is not about to fall for that again.
First-off, a country that discriminates against its citizens according to their faith is no democracy. And Israel has been systematically attacking the only two states in the region with democratically elected governments. So who's a bigger threat to democracy?
Israel constitutionally guarantees the equal rights of all its citizens. There are Israeli Arabs in the Knesset, the army, the civil service...you are once again being suckered by anti-Israeli propaganda. At least do some research before you make public claims - for your own sake.
Israel does not have a constitution per se (since religious political parties consider the Torah and the Talmud to be its constitution and have blocked the draughting of a proper constitution ever since the creation of the state). The laws and institutions (political, social ,educational...) still segregate between Jews and non-Jews.
"Israel's Declaration of Independence called for equal treatment under the law of all its citizens, regardless of their beliefs or national origin. Arab Israelis have had political representation since the state's first parliamentary assembly; currently, thirteen members of the Israeli Parliament are Arab-Israeli, most representing majority Arab political parties. An Arab-Israeli judge also sits on the Supreme Court." - Wikipedia
As you know, wikipedia articles are written by internet bloggers and this particular one was flagged for "disputed neutrality". In any case, while Arab Israeli have Israeli "citizenship" (ezrahut) they are of different "nationality" (le'um) which means that they do not have the same rights that Jewish Israelis (and even non-Israeli Jews) enjoy in Israel. This means that Arab Israelis don't have the right to buy any of the "Israeli lands" owned by the government (90% of all lands in Israel)...
You are exhibiting your ignorance here. I suppose you think the Internet is a series of tubes? Like I said, all its *citizens* have the same rights. That Jews are favoured in some special laws is well known and well understood. Israel is after all a Jewish state created as a Jewish homeland for Jews. Even the Saudis now accept Israel's legitimacy and right to exist.
... What more ironic is that much of those "Israeli lands" where constituted by confiscating 80% of Arab owned lands during the martial law imposed SOLELY on non-Jewish citizens of Israel between 1948 and 1966. Figures: Center for research on Globalization.
Read a book, will you, 80% the lands of the non-Jewish inhabitants of Israel were confiscated, the Knesset PASSED A LAW in 1950 to legitimize this landgrab, even using the same law 19 years later to annex parts of newly conquered East Jerusalem. These are facts.
Oh, and again, the 1000+ Lebanese casualties and the 1000000 refugees are recognized by the UN as being civillians. And by the way, Hizbullah fighters don't wear civillian clothing, they wear combat militaryt uniforms.
Ho ho ho ho. Lebanese Higher Relief Council, an official government agency, estimated 1,187 Lebanese deaths *in total* resulting from the conflict. Estimates range from 500 - 1000 Hezbollah dead. Do the sums. As for Hezbollah uniforms, got to flapsblog DOT com/?p=3154 . Are those what you call "combat military uniforms"? You making a fool of yourself with these claims.
The LHRC count is of civillians, Hezbollah fighters are NOT included because the wounded and kileld fighters do not go through the civil defense relief channels. Hezbollah stated their casualties as 250 (who were given a public duneral, so it's not as if it was a secret), while the Israeli Army estimates them at 500. As for the uniforms, your link shows anti-aircraft guns and bodyguards, while the front-line troops, who, according to the ISRAELI SOLDIERS, were wearing combat uniforms.
Some, in the bunkers, wore uniforms. It is only useful to use civilian disguise when amongst civilians (like smuggling weapons). Captured Hezbollah operatives admit on video to using white flags and civilian clothes to transport rockets and missiles. Since Hezbollah obey no rules of war, by what moral principle is Israel bound? Hezbollah cannot raise a whimper given their violation of all conventions.
Taking land? They are handing back at a furious pace. Not that is does any good. Lebanon is a great example of Land for Peace working huh? How about evacuating Gaza? The fruits of "peace" are daily rocket attacks from Hamas.
Look at a map of Isreal and then notice that the wall goes outside of Isreal. If that isn't taking land, try doing that to your next door neighbor and see what happens. I notice that you didn't respond to the 65 UN resolutions with some propaganda slogan. Perhaps the entire UN is anti-semetic.
The UN is deeply anti-Israeli. Its hypocrisy and flagrant bias against Israel is the stuff of legend. It is utterly corrupt and populated in the main by the representatives of one party states, dictatorships and virulently anti-Western governments. No wonder this shower of thugs routinely denounces the only liberal democracy in the middle east.
Come on Christopher. I am an old veteran of online debates. This is the "complex question" fallacy. Do you still beat your girlfriend? (Of course not, but the answering anything implies (a) you have one and (b) you beat her. So it is with your question implying Israel is somehow an apartheid state).
If you took the laws of Isreal and replaced "Jewish" with "white", anyone looking at that laws would say that was an apartheid state. And I would hardly call my question complex. That was just my smart-ass way of posing a question. Did you avoid answering because you didn't want to deny Israel was aparttheid and therefore lie?
All citizens in Israel have equal rights so both your historical analogy and socio-legal comparison are not accurate. It does not help that the situation in Israel and the Palestinian territories is likened to something that is bears no resemblance to. Did you watch the video? Do you have any objections to its content?
I watched the vid. If they are faking, then they are liars. Now as to apartheid, I notice that you didn't say that Isreal treats Jews and non-Jews equally, because the right of return is for Jews only. Also, I have read that Arab citizens can vote, but are denied the right to use 93% of the land controld by the gov't land agency; denied equal access to water, and social services. They are not permitted to serve in the military and are thus denied those services given to veterans.
Right of return is an exception granted to Jews, yes. But the UK and other countries have exactly the same with ancestral visas and passports. In both cases there is another route to citizenship through naturalisation and right to remain. Not sure if you are are referring to Israeli Arabs (what I was talking about) or Palestinians? Israeli Arabs are constitutionally as protected as any other citizen of Israel.
You're trying to tell me that England only gives Jews a right of return? As to Arab citizens of Isreal, you did not respond to what I said. You said they are constitutionally protected, but I was saying they are not allowed to serve in the military and are denied services. Apartheid means an official policy of segregation.
England allows ancestors to return, so does Israel. You are factually wrong about Israeli Arabs in the IDF. Six Israeli Arabs are decorated with Orders of Distinction in the IDF. Apartheid was an official policy of racial segregation and oppression in South Africa and your comparison is utterly baseless. "Denied services" is an unsupported claim. Google my claims for plenty of proof.
I google your claims and find quite the opposite. Pointing out six Arabs in the IDF is not proof of anything. Comparing England's return to Israel's is baseless: there are Arabs,Palestinians, etc... who's ancestors lived in Palestine, but they have no right to citizenship because they are not Jewish. Denying them rights because of that is apartheid.
Once a liar always a liar. If they are capable of staging all this, they are capable of making the world believe their "poor" condition. End of story.
Go to work! instead of flipping running like maniacs on the street.
nath0811 4 months ago
Once a liar always a liar. If they are capable of staging all this, they are capable of making the world believe their "poor" condition. End of story.
nath0811 4 months ago
Oy Vey - It's Pallywood~!
palibirds 1 year ago
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I don't know!!! This video is hilarious!!!! but still as a middle-eastern and an arab we ca't deny that people has actually been killed for real in that infected area, and from both sides! I don't know who made this video, if it's and organisation or just an ordinary person, youtube allows 9 : 59 mins for videos, why is this 18??!!! how did they get all this information and with close up shots, are those ppl so stupid to reveal all their plans? it looks really made up! we just want peace
darqam91 2 years ago
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darqam91 2 years ago
All of the gunfire in ALL of the "Martyrs Crossing" footage on the internet is 7.62x39mm judguing from the sound.The IDF's 5.56x45mm bullets make a high pitched whine and a sharper cracking sound.The average IDF trooper can hit a man in the torso at 400 meters yet these people are all walking around without any fear within that range? Too bad only soldiers know the difference while the ignorant actually believe this pallywood bullshit,LOL
sopmodm4 2 years ago 2
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coreyvf 2 years ago
yay, kill the palestinian pigs!!!
planefreak3 3 years ago 2
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Israel, you people are barbarians, why must you insist on expelling everyone who isn't a jew? Isn't that the purest definition of racism? I really have contempt for collectivists. True bigots.
ParapaDrifter 3 years ago
Just to inform you, Arabs, Jews, christians all live in Israel. Not sue where you got your information that Israel expels non Jews. Many non Jews live around the country. Don't believe me, go there and see it with your own eyes. I have.
sooner0411 2 years ago 3
There's 3/4 of a Million Arab Israeli citizens who intentionally choose to be citizens of Israel.They vote in Israel's elections,have complete representation in the Knesset,own businesses,homes and have 10x the quality of life of the Hamas ruled maniacs on the other side of the wall.All Arabs who weren't nuts chose to flee to the Israeli side and do not regret it.Arabs like Druze,Bedhoins who lived there before long Palestine was invented in the 1920's by Haj Amin Al Husseini and Khalidi THRIVE
sopmodm4 2 years ago
are you aware of the false flag terror caused by international spy agencies or Mossad? They are financed by weapons dealers and Zionists to inflame tensions between these people. and allow order out of chaos.
Israel is using the false flag terror, as well as real incidents to oppress the palestinians and steal their land.
Remember USS Liberty? False flag terror plot. Israel is not an innocent victim.
ParapaDrifter 2 years ago
so this is the reason to take the land from Palestinians
kiesha86 3 years ago
It is what it is, an expose of the propaganda lies and deceptions of some Palestinians.
The morality of the situation is highly complex. Lies do not help solve anything.
limbic 3 years ago
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egovideo 3 years ago
They are raw footage (rushes). The news logos are put on by news channels to their own audiences.
limbic 3 years ago
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egovideo 3 years ago
thank u so much for posting. Pallywood! what a bunch of liers! And to think most of the world is blinded by them?!
pretty312 4 years ago
Hahahahaha!!!What a bunch of drama queens! they have nothing better to do with there lifes.
nocturnalsamurai1000 4 years ago 2
There was never any doubt that Clinton would not be able to bring peace. Israel has tried again and again to be peaceful. How much of their land do they need to give away? They have given enough. The only way there will be peace is when one of them is defeated.
ConservativeVoiceUSA 4 years ago 2
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That land doesnt belongs to Israel. Get out and you will have peace.
wacobr 4 years ago
Yes it does idiot. Israelis have long lived there, long before Constantine called the land "Palestine". Therefore, it is Israel's land and it will be forever!
LONG LIVE ISRAEL!
MustafPouperOnHerod 4 years ago 8
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Uhh the Israelis are still expanding their settlements. So don't shove that crap about Israelis being the brokers of peace.
They say they want peace but expand settlements?
As if the palestinian would not protest?
RockxLee 4 years ago
Good. That land does belong to Israel you moron. They have been there long before Constantine called the land "Palestine". There is no such thing as palestinians unless they are still under Constantine's rule. Therefore, Judah is still Judah, and Israel, is still Israel. Get out of ISRAEL'S LAND!
MustafPouperOnHerod 4 years ago 4
Nice Video to see to all world the truth
StriderRus 4 years ago 9
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who cares if it is staged.
niflymoth 4 years ago
How much of the rest of the story is staged?
limbic 4 years ago
even if US stops supporting israel it will still kick arab asses at the same rate so Israel rocks!
vedicpower 4 years ago
The french have 5 million muslims now, in 20 years 20 million, in 40 years another Muslim country.
isralien23 4 years ago 3
Mmm, you seem to not be aware of how powerful Nasser's Egypt was- and it was allied with Syria and coordinated with Jordan.
And they were backed by the USSR- fully.
If Allah is on your side, it doesn't matter who is against you, and Allah is clearly with Israel.
As to Lebanon, Hezbullah is still buried under the rubble there.
Peace.
jimmyjoemeeker 4 years ago
nice response! Peace indeed,hahaha :))
pretty312 4 years ago
The long view is that the tiny nation of Israel has survived for thousands of years- and has returned to its land. Hundreds of millions of Muslims can't stop it. All it has done has caused the Muslims to suffer.
You better think long and hard about that. Allah is not with you. He is with Israel.
jimmyjoemeeker 4 years ago 2
If you define Orthodox as non-Zionist, then you don't know what Orthodox is. It isn't just the Jews who excommunicate these few anti-zionists; it is the masses of religious Jews.
History is proving these Orthodox Jews correct. The Jewish nation is returning to its land. In the history of man, no other nation has. Israel has many times.
jimmyjoemeeker 4 years ago
I'm not sure if you're aware, but the entire religious Jewish world excommunicated those few anti-zionist nutters.
Did you know that the largest "settlement" in the "West Bank" is made up of ultra-Orthodox Jews? Or that the ultra-Orthodox Shas party is in the Israeli government? Every Israeli government includes religious parties.
jimmyjoemeeker 4 years ago
As if judt is representative. LOL!
jimmyjoemeeker 4 years ago
Orthodox Jews don't believe that at all. That's why more Orthodox Jews are moving to Israel today from the West than anybody else.
jimmyjoemeeker 4 years ago
It wasn't the Arabs' house to begin with. The nation of Israel returned to its own house. Arabs ALSO decided to move to Israel's house then. I read just yesterday that the (Arab) mayor of Nablus is someone named Masri. Masri in Arabic means Egyptian.
In any case, the more they fight, the more the Arabs will suffer. You see it happening daiy. Israel keeps getting stronger, including economically and in terms of population, and hundreds of millions of you folks can't stop it.
jimmyjoemeeker 4 years ago
Hundreds of millions of Arabs/Moslems can't defeat tiny Israel.
Allah obviously supports Israel; not the Moslems.
jimmyjoemeeker 4 years ago
No saracharleston, it's TERRORISM; not "resistance". The Arabs could have had peace and a state. There was nothing to "resist". They chose the path of violence and bloodshed instead.
Israel will be around for a LONG time, but the Arabs will not be. All polls indicate that 33% or more would leave if they could, and it will only get worse.
jimmyjoemeeker 4 years ago
The would-be 'Palestinians' would be murderers but the IDF has been successful in stopping them- for the most part.
The would-be 'Palestinians' didn't have to start wars in the first place. They did anyway and they lost. Tough luck. Boo-hoo. Move on. It's over for them.
jimmyjoemeeker 4 years ago
You can bury your head in the sand but I won't. Every single day- bar none, we see them murdering innocent people with suicide bombers, shootings, beheadings, etc. Even their own.
Religion of peace, my ass.
jimmyjoemeeker 4 years ago
Brilliantly made and very thought provoking film. In Northern Ireland we suffer too from 'sound-byte' journalism and distorted reporting that has been tainted by a mixture of liberalism and laziness. Research the news, and don't be a blind consumer!
caltonmedia 4 years ago
Branding an entire people is bigotry writ large. Would you accept a blanket statement about Somalis? Could it be fair?
limbic 4 years ago
Intolerance is Islam, where non-Moslems can't even VISIT Mecca or Medina, where non-Moslems MUST live under intolerant Islamic rule as dhimmi with no rights- or die.
Your religion teaches that cold blooded murder is admirable.
There's no such thing as 'Palestine'- thank God. Your cut of death shouldn't have yet another launching board for murder.
jimmyjoemeeker 4 years ago
It's really disgusting how the modern-day Philistines blatantly lie without batting an eyelash.
But given the horrendous other things that they do, it's par for the course.
jimmyjoemeeker 5 years ago
Intolerance in it's ugliest form. Tell me Jimmy....does your religion teach you to hate so blindly the way you do or is it just the environment that you were raised in???
BTW I'm no Philistine, I'm Falistiniyya, there's a diff, I'm Arab, and the old Philistines were European or something like that.
Intifada1981 4 years ago
more excuses to take the focus off what's really going on---the systematic murder and expulsion of the arab palestinians, of which i am one. my family has many stories of hate and fear and death. i believe if the world heard their stories, shit like this wouldn't be validated.
Intifada1981 5 years ago
No intifada, no killing. Today Arab Palestinians die when they wage war on Israel or they kill each other in faction fighting. The Palestinian people deserve justice, but not via terror and the genocidal ambitions of Hamas.
limbic 5 years ago
Israel is not the country but the town of people who try to dealojar to the Palestinians of their properties. .el Palestinian territory that are coveted by the Jews, these the diero to know like the PROMISED Earth, highly indicative fact that our territory and our countries they were throughout an historical period, representing for them the dream, the imagination and the legend but never the truth
opinion17 5 years ago
good vid next these pigs should make some vids about virgins so more pedophiles will convert to islam!!!!
snopp187 5 years ago
In the last 6 years, more than 4000 Palestinians were killed by the Israeli Army and Israeli settlers, including more than 800 children and 300 women. And if you're still unsure, how about the 70 UN resolutions Israel is STILL violating.
huijianz 5 years ago
Please stop spamming this video with the same comment already answered below. We know most of those were militants and the civilians mostly killed when those militants used them as human shields or recklessly attacked the IDF with civilians in the crossfire.
limbic 5 years ago
That "human shield" thing is getting really old in a hurry. Of course Palestinian militants attack the Israeli Army inside Palestinian streets, that's where the occupation is! Oh, and less than 1/4th of Palestinian casualties "took part in the hostilities" and that means anything from flinging rocks at soldiers to fighting the Israeli tanks occupying Palestinian villages.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
wow, this is pretty enlightening. pallywood is a great competition for hollywood.
Rugiviet 5 years ago
In the last 6 years, more than 4000 Palestinians were killed by the Israeli Army and Israeli settlers, including more than 800 children and 300 women. The Palestinians don't need to fake it, the numbers alone speak volumes about Israeli terrorism.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
They started the second Intifada and persist in trying to wipe out Israel. In terms of casualties the percentage of Israeli women and children killed is vastly higher than the Palestinians thanks to the deliberate targeting of women and children by Hamas et al. And anyway, as videos like this show, always double check any Palestinian claim. Even videos lie...
limbic 5 years ago
Actually, even in percentage terms the ratio of Palestinian children killed (20%) is higher than the ratio of Israeli children killed (18%) relative to overall civillian casualties on each side. Of course, when Israeli Army casualties are included in the Israeli count the ratio of Israeli children killed drops to 10%, HALF the Palestinian children ratio. Of course, there are 8 times as many Palestinian children killed as Israeli children. Oh, and all numbers are from an Israeli HRO.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
So children of soldiers don't count?! The fact is that (1) the intifada is waged by Hamas and others in the crowded west bank and gaza (2) they deliberately use human shield and endanger children (3) all deaths of civilians killed by Israel are accidental (4) all civilians killed by Palestinians are deliberately killed.
limbic 5 years ago
No, what I said is that the Israeli children killed ratio is smaller than the Palestinian children killed ratio wether you calculate it relative to Israeli civillian deaths of Israeli deaths total (civillians+active soldiers). But it drops to half the Palestinian ratio in the latter case.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Sorry. I thought you were somehow counting children as soldiers. Still does not change the fact that Palestinians deliberately target civilians whereas the Israelis don't. That crucial moral distinction colours the statistics significantly.
limbic 5 years ago
Its 26th January 20007. Not even the IDF can kill that many militants and terrorists in 26 days. They nearly did last year though. I hope they get a chance to finish the job.
limbic 5 years ago
Hey man, thanks for posting this video.
I am from Israel, and can tell you as a fact, that i was in Tel Aviv one day, and saw a suicide bombing.
If that isn't denying my right to live safely in my country, nothing is.
How many times has Isreal and the Palesteniens declared a cease fire, but the palestiniens kept launching Qassams at Israeli territory?
idodafrito1 5 years ago
this is hogwash, you can't take away the fact that palestinian civilians are denude of their rights and the idf can intrude into their houses anytime any day, in their own land, whilst beating up their kids in front of their eyes. it's the nature of a debased morally power hungry entity.
one star.
vokuro88 5 years ago
That is the poorest argument I have seen in these comments. You have not attacked a single fact or argument in the video, instead you repeat the claims that Palestinian propaganda makes. The video shows that Palestinians cannot be trusted because they pump out fake news. You are a victi9m of that propaganda. Nil Points.
limbic 5 years ago
i'm not arguing, it's called a comment, and you're riding in one high horse thinking i'm the victim of this 'illustrious' propganda.
--as if biased yellow journalism and disinformations was wrought out of the back alley of a vacant ruinous lot in gaaza strip once owned by a 4th generation palestinian family but had it demolished because IDF. wrong. are you kidding me?
vokuro88 5 years ago
The video is educational. You have benefited from it, even if it was painful for you to watch. You have been sold a lie, and this video helps expose that lie.
limbic 5 years ago
The idea that people scurrying to help injured adolescents, however awkwardly, and ambulances rushing to the scene of shootings IN A WARZONE are somehow faking it is absolutely MORONIC. If you were in a warzone for ONE DAY and saw a young person getting SHOT by an occupying army, you'd do the same thing. And for your courage and compassion, you'd probably be called a "faker" as well.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
nobody is to be trusted every information has either been construed by conglomorate corporations who bend at the will of those who has money. IDF backed by 1.8 billion by an annual american war fund -- western jurno's gonna pay them more heed.
vokuro88 5 years ago
Strangely you support my thesis. The standard corporate media narrative in Israel / Palestine is Israeli bad guy, Palestinian victim. It takes tiny independent media outlets and independent film-makers to bring you the truth.
limbic 5 years ago
go keep posting your videos while nettling your panties wound up in a wad because an individual spoke his mind. but realize muslims in their own homeland are being undermined and treated as 2ND class citizen because some white westerners claimed it's theirs. and they have america to back them up to say it is so.
vokuro88 5 years ago
Half of you anti-Israeli nuts claim that anti-Semitism cannot exist because they claim Israelis are Semites and so are Palestinians. The other half try and make this a race issue with an imperialist narrative. You are all wrong. Not even the Palestinians deny the historical rights of Israelis to a homeland on that territory. There were Jews living there for centuries before Islam even existed!
limbic 5 years ago
The issue is neither religious nor racial. The issue is the expulsion of Palestinians from their homes to create a Jewish only state. "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. There is not one single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist." Former Israeli Army Chief of Staff Moshe Dayan
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Nice try. This is a famous misquote. See moshedayan DOT notlong DOT com for the full correct quote plus context. It reverses the implied meaning of this attempted slander.
limbic 5 years ago
No it doesn't, I've read the original quote, and the one I put is simply abridged to fit the 500 character limit. It's a response to the preposterous claims that there was no such thing as Palestinians, that the Jewish immigrants just settled an empty land. There WERE Palestinians (Jewish, Christian and Muslim) but the non-Jewish elements were expelled through massacres and intimidation.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
No one claimed there were no Palestinians. You dreamed that bit. As for expulsions, they did not happen. The new state of Israel was invaded by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iraq. It was their intention to annihilate the Jews. They failed. 700,000 Palestinians refugees fled the battlefield. The idea being to return once Israel was destroyed. They never returned.
limbic 5 years ago
The Palestinians "fled the battlefield" because of massacres like Deir-Yassin and Al-Dawayima. "They never returned" because they were never allowed to: "Arabs cross to collect the grain that they left in the abandoned villages and we set mines for them and they go back without an arm or a leg." Former Israeli Army Chief of Staff Moshe Dayan
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
There were atrocities on both sides. It stared with the Arabs massacring Jews at Kfar Etzion. Jewish women and children fled too. Unfortunately for the Arabs, they lost the war they started. Since they never stopped trying to prosecute that war, the price has been deracination. I genuinely pity them, but they have mostly themselves to blame. They also deserve a homeland too but there will be no relief for them whilst they continue to wage war on Israel.
limbic 5 years ago
In the last 6 years, more than 4000 Palestinians were killed by the Israeli Army and Israeli settlers, including more than 800 children and 300 women. The Palestinians don't need to fake it, the numbers alone speak volumes about Israeli terrorism.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
They are victims of the Intifada. They wage a war of annihilation against their neighbours and we are supposed to pity their casualties? They consistently scupper the peace process and regardless of Israeli concessions, they keep on attacking Israel. Palestinians will stop being killed by the IDF as soon as they stop attempting to murder Israelis.
limbic 5 years ago
yes because if they make a cease fire the next day they continue firing rockets
tommydaskanninchen 5 years ago
and what about chechenia and congo and the iraqis and the tamils and the somalians ...
the palestinians are guilty them self cause the war starts from their land
tommydaskanninchen 5 years ago
Most terror they experience is as a direct consequence of the actions of Palestinian terrorists operating amongst them to attack Israel. Israeli harassment is caused by counter-terrorism operations. No terrorists, no harassment. When Israel withdraws (as they did in Gaza) their "reward" is rocket attacks and kidnappings.
limbic 5 years ago
Isreal killed 1,000 civilians in Lebanon in the most recent conflict. They left approximately one million unexploded cluster bombs in South Lebanon villages. It's too bad Lebanese children are not worth as much as Israeli children.
ChristopherMarlowe 5 years ago
well israeli fathers dont support and vote hizbullah fighters
and it wasnt 1000 civilians
1000 lebanese but many of them were hizbullah fighters
and unexploded cluster bombs are what u get if u start a war with a stronger country
tommydaskanninchen 5 years ago
Incorrect. Some Lebanese civilians were killed when they refused to leave a combat zone from which terrorists were deliberately targeting Israeli civilians - despite warnings! Of course Israeli children are worth more to Israelis than Lebanese children. They are not mad. Only Islamists loons like Hezbollah believe in sacrificing the innocent for political expedience.
limbic 5 years ago
I notice you don't quote your source; If you are just making up "facts", why don't you admit it? Why shouldn't Lebanese children be precious to everyone? Aren't all children a precious gift of God?
ChristopherMarlowe 5 years ago
You (perhaps intentionally) have missed my point. When Lebanese and Iranian terrorists are firing rockets into Israel attempting to kill Israeli civilians, should the Israelis sacrifice their children to avoid harming Lebanese children? That is a very tall order. Would you sacrifice your kids for the sake of those of a murderous neighbour attacking you?
limbic 5 years ago
Which facts are you disputing? (1) That civilians were killed (2) that they were warned (3) that Israeli children value their own children higher than their enemies or (4) that Hezbollah do not believe in using martyrs including child martyrs? Which fact am I making up?
limbic 5 years ago
I don't know what got Hezbollah into this conversation, they are a LEBANESE resistance group. But since you mention it, hey have never used children or suicide bombers. They have never attacked Israeli civillians except as retaliation for Israeli attacks on Lebanese civillians and even then, they use unguided, small-payload rockets which are an instrument of disruption, not killing.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Hezbollah use children as human shields. It is Hamas that uses child suicide bombers. The retaliation argument is specious. Both Hezbollah and Hamas have continued to attack Israeli civilians (killing and wounding hundreds) with both suicide bombings and deadly rocket attacks regardless of Israeli withdrawals and concessions. This conforms with their stated aims of wiping the Jews off the face of the earth. The Qassam 3 has a 10kg warhead - same as a large suicide bomb belt. Small payload, hah!
limbic 5 years ago
Whether you consider it specious or not, it is supported by the facts. In the last war on Lebanon, Israel launched strikes against civillian infrastructure and RESIDENTIAL AREAS, as retaliation for the capture of two SOLDIERS by Hizbullah, intended to be realeased as part of a prisoner exchange to free Lebanese civillians held in Israel without being charged or prosecuted and being tortured by their Israeli captors.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Hezbollah opened hostilities by capturing 2 soldiers and KILLING 8. Israel struck back at Hezbollah's infrastructure and launched minimal temporary disabling strikes on resupply routes to Hezbollah. The prisoner story is rubbish. There were at the time of the Hezbollah attack fewer Lebanese nationals in Israeli prisons than in BRITISH prisons! Every terrorist uses excuses, but seemingly you uncritically accept all of them!
limbic 5 years ago
Israel and Lebanon are in a state of war, attacking military personnel of an ennemy state is not considered terrorism, in fact there was a time when people had the courage to call it RESISTANCE. And as long as there is ONE civillian in Israeli prisons without being charged or prosecuted and being tortured by their Israeli captors, there is a legitimate reason to attack the Israeli Army.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
You are factually wrong. At the time of the attack and even now there was NO state of war between Israel and Lebanon. The attack came 6 years after Israel withdrew from Lebanon in full (as certified by the UN). Hezbollah say there are FOUR Lebanese prisoners in Israeli prisoners. There are SEVENTEEN in UK jails! In both Israel and the UK they are all convicted criminals. You are being suckered by the most primitive misinformation and lies. Check these facts yourself.
limbic 5 years ago
There has been no peace treaty, no truce AND Israel had kept violating Lebanese airspace, territorial waters and crossing the borders, sometimes randomly abducting civillians. This is why in 2004 (that's after the "withdrawal"), Hizbullah exchanged an Israeli intelligence officer for 430+ prisonners in Israeli jails. And by the way, in addition to the 4 prisonners, there are DOZENS named by the LEBANESE GOVERNMENT, who have been abducted by the Israeli Army.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Wrong. There is no state of war between Israel and Lebanon and Hezbollah itself claims there are only four Lebanese in Israeli jails. And since when did it become OK to use rocket attacks on civilians to try and solve diplomatic and political issues? When did it become OK to murder Israeli civilians as a bargaining chip for the release of 4 Lebanese convicted murderers?
limbic 5 years ago
AGAIN, Hizbullah didn't start throwing rockets on Israeli settlements until the Israeli Army started shelling RESIDENTIAL areas in Lebanon. The capture of Israeli SOLDIERS was Hizbullah's operation to free Lebanese prisoners held in Israeli jails WITHOUT BEING CHARGED OR PROSECUTED.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Hez and Hamas rocketed Israeli civilians BEFORE the capture of the Israeli soldiers by each of them. They were acting in concert with near identical operations (raid + rockets). Also, there are no Lebanese prisoners held without charge in Israel. If there were, do you honestly believe that rocketing civilians and murderous cross border raids are the way to deal with the issue? If military action is legitimate way to settle grievances, how can you object to any Israeli military action?
limbic 5 years ago
Again, for the third time, Hezbollah did NOT rocket Israeli civillians before Israel attacked civillian residential areas in Lebanon. Hezbollah DID use rockets on ISRAELI MILITARY positions DURING the operation to capture the Israeli soldiers. Please get you facts straight before reapeating the same claim over and over again.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
I keep telling you that Hamas and Hezbollah were (and are) acting in concert. Google "Hizbullah paying for Kassam attacks". They are allies in a joint enterprise. Hamas rockets are the same as Hezbollah rockets. Additionally, Hezbollah has repeatedly attacked Israel since 2000. The Hamas-Hezbollah axis has never stopped attempting to massacre Israeli civilians regardless of Israeli concessions. If Israel fought like Hezbollah, Lebanon would be a radioactive ash pile today.
limbic 5 years ago
Even the Israeli government didn't say they attacked Hizbullah because of Hamas actions. Until further notice, the Israeli pretext for launching the campaign against Lebanon and the killing of 1000+ Lebanese civillians was an operation to retrieve the two captured Israeli soldiers.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Hezbollah opened hostilities. They attacked across international borders. This is Casus Belli. The is no need for a pretext. It was a measured response to an act of war. Most of those "civilians" were Hezbollah who as usual were in civilian clothes exploiting Israeli restraint and rules of engagement. I mean when have Arab/Islamist armies or militants EVER tried to avoid enemy civilian casualties? NEVER.
limbic 5 years ago
Really? 1000+ Lebanese civillians dead and 1000000+ refugees were all Hizbullah operatives? Hostilities never stopped in southern Lebanon with Israeli incursion and abduction of civillians still commonplace. And Hizbullah DID try to avoid further Israeli civillian casualties by not targetting the Haifa chemical plants which they could have easily done with their guided long-range, heavy payload, missiles the use of which they reserved to Israeli military bases.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
I said "Most of those "civilians" were Hezbollah who as usual were in civilian clothes". How was deliberately targeting civilians avoiding civilian casualties? They could have used ALL their rockets against the army and I would have no grounds for complaint. If Hezbollah had attacked Haifa's chemical plants - an attempt at mass murder - Israel would justifiably nuked Tehran and the Bekah valley. There are limits to Israeli restraint and Hezbollah (and their Iranian backers) know it.
limbic 5 years ago
Hizbullah attacks Israeli civillian areas as a response to Israeli attacks on Lebanese civillians. The rockets they use on civillians are easily spotted by radar and do not break through bomb shelters, they are weapons of disruption, not death. And, the way the security council blatantly refused to call for a cease fire for weeks, if it weren't for these attacks on Israeli civillians and their effect on Israeli public opinion , the Israeli campaign might have been pursued until now.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
I simply do not believe Hezbollah's justifications. The deliberate targeting of civilians is beyond the Pale. Those "weapons of disruption" killed 49 civilians! They are a deadly indiscriminate weapon designed to kill and maim. Please answer my earlier question: If the deliberate targeting of civilians justified, how can you complain about accidental civilian casualties?
limbic 5 years ago
49 Israeli civillian casualties versus 1000+ Lebanese casualties, in the same timeframe. Who's the terrorist here? Answering your question is simple: Hizbullah captured 2 SOLDIERS from country Lebanon is at war with, Israel starts bombing residential areas, the security council does NOT call for a cease fire (it's primary function in any conflict), Hizbullah throws rockets on Israeli military bases and civillian areas, Israeli public opinion is sick of staying in shelters, war stops.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Deliberately targeting civilians is the crime. Lebanon and Israel were not at war! It was an aggressive and unprovoked attack on Israel. Israel wiped out Hezbollah assets after warning civilians to vacate, the Hezbollah propaganda machine faked Qana. Israel ran out of diplomatic capital. UN promised to enforce South Lebanon demilitarized zone. Hostilities suspended...for now.
limbic 5 years ago
"Hezbollah FAKED Qana"? As in they killed those dozens of women and children, threw them under the rubble of the destroyed shelter and pretended it was the work of the Israelis? Because that's what FAKED means. A relief worker pointing to the victims for a press crew doesn't constitute FAKING. What Hezbollah "assets" are you referring to? The Beirut airport? Bridges all over the country? Dairy and Lumber factories? Hospitals? Residential city blocks?
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Bodies were shipped in by freezer truck then the whole thing was staged for journalists. Google "qana fake" and read for yourself. Hezbollah assets means anything owned by Hezbollah. Some minor disabling strikes were used against possible resupply routes (like the airport). Instead of using runway destroying bombs they used small bombs to cause minimal damage. They were incredibly restrained.
limbic 5 years ago
Well of course, if anonymous bloggers say it, it must be true. Do me a favor and read the theory you wrote again, honestly. And what about the 1000+ other civillian casualties? They were imported from abroad perhaps. And attacking the Beirut airport 7 times (6 times to keep the fire in the fuel dump going) constitutes a little more than "minor damage". Israeli officials STATED that they were targetting residential areas as retaliation. What more do you need?
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
They lay out very good evidence, which is what I would like from you. You portray this absurd view of Israel as murderous aggressors when they are the victims of murderous aggression. Do you honestly think Israel would have unleashed its armed forces if Hezbollah had left them alone? Hezbollah invited the Israeli response .
limbic 5 years ago
All I've been doing is presenting fact and figures straight from UN sources, you're the one repeating half-baked conspiracy theories. Do I think Israel would have done if left alone? The Israeli Army has been going into Lebanese territory repeatedly, abducting farmers and fishermen, so what's to believe?
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
This is where you need to do some research. Hezbollah has waged near constant attacks on Israel since the withdrawl. It is a matter of historical record. What is a state supposed to do when it is repeatedly attacked in this way? Just take it? Hezbollah (and Iran) and Hamas have a unified goal: Annihilation of Israel. Do you support that ambition?
limbic 5 years ago
Hizbullah has taken a political commitment towards the Lebanese government to disarm once the Lebanese prisoners are released, maps for Israeli minefields in southern Lebanon and withdrawal from the Shebaa farms, so "annihilation of Israel" is not on the agenda.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Wrong again! On February 16, 1985 Sheik Ibrahim al-Amin publicly declared the group's manifesto, which included three goals: (1) Eradication of Western imperialism in Lebanon, (2) Transformation of Lebanon's democracy into an Islamic state, (3) *Complete destruction of the state of Israel*. This is the agenda you support! Sheba Farms is Syrian. Is war the way to solve a dispute over 35sq km of Syrian desert? 4 Lebanese criminals in Israeli prisons, 17 in UK prisons, OK to rocket London?
limbic 5 years ago
That was 1985, we're now in 2006 and Hizbullah has made commitments. As for the Shebaa farms, the Syrian government has declared them to be Lebanese. In any case they are not Israeli. Add to that the minefield maps and the Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails, and you've got a case for armed conflict. The question you should ask yourself, is why doesn't Israel give up "35sq km of Syrian desert" they have no right to realease the prisoners and settle this whole thing?
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
What commitments? They have INCREASED their militancy and aggression. Armed conflict is last resort and you have complained bitterly about the civilian toll of armed conflict! Are you insane? An unrestrained Israel could annihilate all their neighbours combined. Is that what you want? Be careful what you wish for. Every time the Arabs have try armed conflict, they suffer.
limbic 5 years ago
First-off, Hizbullah has NOT increased their attacks on teh Israeli Army, since 2000, or since 1990 and, most importantly they have been attacking the ISRAELI OCCUPATION ARMY, only launching rocket attacks on Israeli settlements when the Israeli Army specifically targets Lebanese civillians as it has done in 1993 and 1996 (and sporadically ever since). The very CREATION of Hizbullah was in response to the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Hezbollah are Iran's foreign legion. Their paymasters have recently upped their rhetoric and aggression. They model themselves on the Nazis, with Nazi salutes and all. They have the same stated aims: Annihilate the Jews. Since you admire, support and defend them, is it fair to assume you have Nazi sympathies?
limbic 5 years ago
I don't have to admire any Lebanese resistance group to support the legitimacy of their attacking Israeli occupation forces. Regarding the Iranian claim, Hizbullah's fighters are all Lebanese and all their candidates to the Lebanese Parliamentary elections have been elected.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Finally, it's always nice to see pro-Israel zealots turn to the Nazism accusation when faced with facts condemning the policies of the state of Israel. If I were an anti-semitic, I'd be as antagonistic towards Palestinians as I am towards the state of Israel. If I were anti-Jewish, I wouldn't have quoted the Jewish organizations or the Israeli parties calling for the dismantlment of the state of Israel, so let's keep the cheap rhetoric to a minimum, shall we...
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
You mean like those Jews who were at the holocaust conference in Iran last month? Do you believe that there was a European holocaust during WW2 and that around 6 million Jews were killed? I am keen to limn the extent of your anti-Israel/Anti-Jewish sentiments.
limbic 5 years ago
That's right, keep going, keep writing anti-semitism until your fingers hurt, that's what pro-Israeli zealots do when they can't face sourced, objective FACTS that show that the STATE of Israel has racist, segregationist and terrorist policies.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
It appears that our positions are unreconcilable at this point. I support the right of the Palestinians to have a state. I also support the right of Israel to exists in peace. I believe there will ultimately be a political solution and that Palestinian militancy and aggression against Israel retards that solution and needlessly squanders lives and goodwill. You seem to hate Israel and want it destroyed. There is no compromising with that position.
limbic 5 years ago
Hate or love has nothing to do with a matter of historical record. The state of Israel's creation and many of its policies so far have been contrary to principles YOU and I hold dear (segregationist laws, disposession of lands) which have nothing to do with the ongoing conflict, ie: they are not tied to security measures. Now regarding the solution, or the way forward...
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
...The two state solution seems to be the only feasible one (although it is far from the ideal solution: one state where Palestinians and Israelis can live as equals, like it was before 1948). However, the two state solution means the dismantlement of Israeli colonies in the West Bank and the right of return for Palestinian REFUGEES. The commitment to both of these would not undermine the security of Israel, yet Israeli governments have systematically refused them.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
So we agree on the two state solution as being the most likely to succeed. I also agree that the settlers should be withdrawn from the West Bank. I consider the settler program to have been a grave error and Israel's biggest mistake. Right of return for refugees of 50 years ago is no longer feasible. Those 700,000 people have become 3 million. Do you think the 16 million ethnic Germans flushed out of Eastern Europe should return too? It is too late for those Palestinians.
limbic 5 years ago
Fantastic, I'm really glad we're coming to a positive debate after the facts have been layed down. But you have pointed out to the most tragic facet of this conflict: that with enough political intransigence and military dominance, the most basic rights of entire populations can be slowly erased and their restitution becomes "unfeasible". This is what is slowly happening with the settlements in the West Bank, which have slowly but surely become "impossible" to remove.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
That is the nature of the world. Deracination and mass human migrations are the true substance of history. The Palestinian people have ended up dispossessed but this is no way solely due to Israeli wrongdoing. Palestinians themselves and Israel's neighbours have contributed massively to the impasse today.
limbic 5 years ago
And I agree, it's very difficult to imagine reintegrating millions of Palestinian refugees into Israel, but it is their RIGHT to living in their lands, a right they have been consistantly denied by Israel ever since 1948. And so simply dismissing the right of return as Israel has been doing is extremely cynical.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
This is tricky. There is a legal right to ones land and property but there are situation where it is nearly impossible redress historical wrongs. One example is here in the Balkans. 200,000 Serbs were deracinated from the Krajina region of Croatia. They just cannot go back or there would be Kosovo like ethnic bloodshed. Instead they are settled in Serbia (as refugees) and there is a process to compensate them (from the Croatian government). This is what I think could work for Israel.
limbic 5 years ago
But then again, why is the right of return impossible to bear (in practical terms) by Israel? Since the 1990s there have been flows of immigrants into Israel reaching record numbers unseen since the 1950s, a direct result of Israeli policies to encourage immigration. Under Israeli laws and institutions, any person in the world of Jewish descent, can not only become Israeli citizens, but receive considerable financial support to settle in Israel.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Israel is a special case and everyone knows it. Because of the holocaust they were thrown a bone by the European powers and the Palestinians ultimately paid for it. Only way for Israel to even consider repatriation of refugees is if the security situation was stable. As it is today, with its existence under threat, it would be suicide to invite millions of hostile Arabs within its borders. It will never happen. Thus: You have your state, we have ours.
limbic 5 years ago
You're right, it is a tricky situation. However, Israel's security would not be undermined by taking a POLITICAL commitment to pull-out the settlements and/or giving the right of return to Palestinian refugees. In fact, those would most realistially drastically reduce militantism in the West Bank and fulfill two of the very reasons for this militantism.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Pulling out the settlements is something I favour. I do however understand Israeli security concerns when one considers what happened in Gaza (daily rocket attacks into Israel) and Israel's strategic vulnerability when the buttresses of Golan Heights and the West Bank are are removed. As for right of return, there needs to be some other solution. Perhaps it is ceding more territory to the Palestinians but massive settlement within Israeli borders will not be acceptable to Israelis.
limbic 5 years ago
And what's wrong with asking for the dismantlement of a segregationist, terrorist regime like that of Israel and its replacement by a state for all its inhabitants? Haredi Jewish organizations and left wing Israeli parties have been asking for this since 1948. In fact, the Grand Rabbi of Jerusalem in that time was AGAINST the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
You want to dismantle the only liberal democracy in the region and hand the territory to Hamas? Pah! Your "dismantlement" involves the genocide of 6 million Jews. Nuclear armed Israel is not about to fall for that again.
limbic 5 years ago
First-off, a country that discriminates against its citizens according to their faith is no democracy. And Israel has been systematically attacking the only two states in the region with democratically elected governments. So who's a bigger threat to democracy?
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Israel constitutionally guarantees the equal rights of all its citizens. There are Israeli Arabs in the Knesset, the army, the civil service...you are once again being suckered by anti-Israeli propaganda. At least do some research before you make public claims - for your own sake.
limbic 5 years ago
Israel does not have a constitution per se (since religious political parties consider the Torah and the Talmud to be its constitution and have blocked the draughting of a proper constitution ever since the creation of the state). The laws and institutions (political, social ,educational...) still segregate between Jews and non-Jews.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
"Israel's Declaration of Independence called for equal treatment under the law of all its citizens, regardless of their beliefs or national origin. Arab Israelis have had political representation since the state's first parliamentary assembly; currently, thirteen members of the Israeli Parliament are Arab-Israeli, most representing majority Arab political parties. An Arab-Israeli judge also sits on the Supreme Court." - Wikipedia
limbic 5 years ago
As you know, wikipedia articles are written by internet bloggers and this particular one was flagged for "disputed neutrality". In any case, while Arab Israeli have Israeli "citizenship" (ezrahut) they are of different "nationality" (le'um) which means that they do not have the same rights that Jewish Israelis (and even non-Israeli Jews) enjoy in Israel. This means that Arab Israelis don't have the right to buy any of the "Israeli lands" owned by the government (90% of all lands in Israel)...
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
You are exhibiting your ignorance here. I suppose you think the Internet is a series of tubes? Like I said, all its *citizens* have the same rights. That Jews are favoured in some special laws is well known and well understood. Israel is after all a Jewish state created as a Jewish homeland for Jews. Even the Saudis now accept Israel's legitimacy and right to exist.
limbic 5 years ago
... What more ironic is that much of those "Israeli lands" where constituted by confiscating 80% of Arab owned lands during the martial law imposed SOLELY on non-Jewish citizens of Israel between 1948 and 1966. Figures: Center for research on Globalization.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
"Bought from" is the phrase you are looking for, not confiscated.
limbic 5 years ago
Read a book, will you, 80% the lands of the non-Jewish inhabitants of Israel were confiscated, the Knesset PASSED A LAW in 1950 to legitimize this landgrab, even using the same law 19 years later to annex parts of newly conquered East Jerusalem. These are facts.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Oh, and again, the 1000+ Lebanese casualties and the 1000000 refugees are recognized by the UN as being civillians. And by the way, Hizbullah fighters don't wear civillian clothing, they wear combat militaryt uniforms.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Ho ho ho ho. Lebanese Higher Relief Council, an official government agency, estimated 1,187 Lebanese deaths *in total* resulting from the conflict. Estimates range from 500 - 1000 Hezbollah dead. Do the sums. As for Hezbollah uniforms, got to flapsblog DOT com/?p=3154 . Are those what you call "combat military uniforms"? You making a fool of yourself with these claims.
limbic 5 years ago
The LHRC count is of civillians, Hezbollah fighters are NOT included because the wounded and kileld fighters do not go through the civil defense relief channels. Hezbollah stated their casualties as 250 (who were given a public duneral, so it's not as if it was a secret), while the Israeli Army estimates them at 500. As for the uniforms, your link shows anti-aircraft guns and bodyguards, while the front-line troops, who, according to the ISRAELI SOLDIERS, were wearing combat uniforms.
therecordkeeper 5 years ago
Some, in the bunkers, wore uniforms. It is only useful to use civilian disguise when amongst civilians (like smuggling weapons). Captured Hezbollah operatives admit on video to using white flags and civilian clothes to transport rockets and missiles. Since Hezbollah obey no rules of war, by what moral principle is Israel bound? Hezbollah cannot raise a whimper given their violation of all conventions.
limbic 5 years ago
Gee, then I guess Isreal is right to continue taking land and ignoring 65 U.N. resolutions.
ChristopherMarlowe 5 years ago
Taking land? They are handing back at a furious pace. Not that is does any good. Lebanon is a great example of Land for Peace working huh? How about evacuating Gaza? The fruits of "peace" are daily rocket attacks from Hamas.
limbic 5 years ago
Look at a map of Isreal and then notice that the wall goes outside of Isreal. If that isn't taking land, try doing that to your next door neighbor and see what happens. I notice that you didn't respond to the 65 UN resolutions with some propaganda slogan. Perhaps the entire UN is anti-semetic.
ChristopherMarlowe 5 years ago
The UN is deeply anti-Israeli. Its hypocrisy and flagrant bias against Israel is the stuff of legend. It is utterly corrupt and populated in the main by the representatives of one party states, dictatorships and virulently anti-Western governments. No wonder this shower of thugs routinely denounces the only liberal democracy in the middle east.
limbic 5 years ago
How many UN members are apartheid states, including Isreal?
ChristopherMarlowe 5 years ago
Come on Christopher. I am an old veteran of online debates. This is the "complex question" fallacy. Do you still beat your girlfriend? (Of course not, but the answering anything implies (a) you have one and (b) you beat her. So it is with your question implying Israel is somehow an apartheid state).
limbic 5 years ago
If you took the laws of Isreal and replaced "Jewish" with "white", anyone looking at that laws would say that was an apartheid state. And I would hardly call my question complex. That was just my smart-ass way of posing a question. Did you avoid answering because you didn't want to deny Israel was aparttheid and therefore lie?
ChristopherMarlowe 5 years ago
All citizens in Israel have equal rights so both your historical analogy and socio-legal comparison are not accurate. It does not help that the situation in Israel and the Palestinian territories is likened to something that is bears no resemblance to. Did you watch the video? Do you have any objections to its content?
limbic 5 years ago
I watched the vid. If they are faking, then they are liars. Now as to apartheid, I notice that you didn't say that Isreal treats Jews and non-Jews equally, because the right of return is for Jews only. Also, I have read that Arab citizens can vote, but are denied the right to use 93% of the land controld by the gov't land agency; denied equal access to water, and social services. They are not permitted to serve in the military and are thus denied those services given to veterans.
ChristopherMarlowe 5 years ago
Right of return is an exception granted to Jews, yes. But the UK and other countries have exactly the same with ancestral visas and passports. In both cases there is another route to citizenship through naturalisation and right to remain. Not sure if you are are referring to Israeli Arabs (what I was talking about) or Palestinians? Israeli Arabs are constitutionally as protected as any other citizen of Israel.
limbic 5 years ago
You're trying to tell me that England only gives Jews a right of return? As to Arab citizens of Isreal, you did not respond to what I said. You said they are constitutionally protected, but I was saying they are not allowed to serve in the military and are denied services. Apartheid means an official policy of segregation.
ChristopherMarlowe 5 years ago
England allows ancestors to return, so does Israel. You are factually wrong about Israeli Arabs in the IDF. Six Israeli Arabs are decorated with Orders of Distinction in the IDF. Apartheid was an official policy of racial segregation and oppression in South Africa and your comparison is utterly baseless. "Denied services" is an unsupported claim. Google my claims for plenty of proof.
limbic 5 years ago
I google your claims and find quite the opposite. Pointing out six Arabs in the IDF is not proof of anything. Comparing England's return to Israel's is baseless: there are Arabs,Palestinians, etc... who's ancestors lived in Palestine, but they have no right to citizenship because they are not Jewish. Denying them rights because of that is apartheid.
ChristopherMarlowe 5 years ago