Read tiny url 593htl . It is a link to fairtaxorg's own research.The important part to read is page 30 on, "Appendix: Households’ Well-Being under the FairTax", in which they clearly state that according to their research those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year would on average pay MORE in taxes under the "Fair" Tax than now. They try and fudge around this with what they call "income mobility", however Table 13 makes it clear--that mobility is into poverty-- and they call that a positive.
Both are garbage. The progressive tax does not discourage success, You will always judge your own success relative to your peers. This vid is just a simple trap with simple WEAK arguments targeted at the feeble mined.
Hasn't the GOP party realized an unintended consequences of a flat tax. There are 1.3 Mil Accountants in the US according to bls.gov. Surely a flat tax would put all the accountants and as many bookkeepers out of work. Rick Perry is a moron. Political suicide
We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. Politicians love visible beneficiaries & invisible victims !
There is no such thing as a good tax. Politicians are leaches, mostly !
Three groups spend other people's money: children, thieves, politicians. All three need supervision.
The current system, and the past system was developed by Republicans. Don't burn books read them.
As a liberal, I am in favor of a national tax. However as the conservative economist Thomas Sowell points out in his book Knowledge and Decision, you have to ask the question "Then what happens?"
BTW, how can anyone vote for a candidate that wants to secede from the US. I did not join the military to fight for traitors like him
@VictoryRepublican There's no real difference between Republicans and Democrats. Either way they're represented by the elite and are only going to do what it takes to make money. That's their job. Perry seems to be the biggest Chronie on the list right now, and he'll probably become the candidate. By the way, I hope you don't actually think your vote matters, unless you're a part of the electoral college that is.
From the Cato Institute! HAH! And you want me to believe what this guy says? Not happening! The rich win! They always win.. they buy and pay for all the rules and laws they want.. The system has to change.. has to.
The "Fair" Tax IS basically class warfare,the wealthy declaring war on the middleclasses by raising their effective tax rates. It would, by Americans for Fair Taxation's own admission, raise the effective tax rate of those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year while lowering the effective rate of those making $150,000 and up a year. Source:tinyurl 593htl, page 30 on -pay particular attention to table 13, years 7-8 -- would you be "better off" if your income dropped from $25k to less than $10k?
B17Boy is typical of FT/NASTI supporters-- he will clamor on how opponents are somehow "socialists " for "class warfare", when it is he who is for class warfare-- wanting to greatly lower the taxes of the wealthy and increase the taxes of those making from $15k to $15k a year. That IS warfare, declared on the middleclass,who struggle to get by. He is for a feudal plutocracy, and imagines that somehow he could buy everything used (rent?food?utilities?medicine?doctors bills?) to avoid taxation.
For proof that the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales Tax Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of those making from about $15k to $150k a year while greatly lowering the taxes of most who make from around $150k up, one only needs to read and understand pages 30 on of one of fairtaxorg's own "research" at tinyurl 593htl. Pay particular attention to table 13-- this is how they claim the middleclass is better off under FT/NASTI, by them FALLING INTO POVERTY LEVEL every few years (see years 7-8).
@ttannyhill The states would get their money through whatever means its citizens permit, preferably a flat tax of some type. The money for all federal expenditures would come from the states. In order to make this work we'd have to decide on what exactly we want the federal government to do and amend article 1 sec. 8 & 9 accordingly. We'd also have to repeal the 16th & 17th amendments to the constitution & we'd have to so I'm not getting my hopes up. It would take 100 years to make it happen.
Don't listen to *FairTaxisaLie*. He is a socialst that believes that a class warfare based income tax is superior to fairness and freedom. Somehow, he thinks this is about money and can't get it through his angstrom-sized brain that we're going to have to pay taxes regardless. What we want is to get rid of the socialist income tax and its gestapo-esque enforcement. The FairTax is truly voluntary; you only pay when you buy new goods at the retail level. The only enforcement is on retailers.
The "Fair" Tax aka national Sales Tax- Inclusive aka NASTI would on average raise the federal taxes of those making from $15k-$150k a year while lowering the fed taxes of those making over $150k a year. This is not debateable, it is from supporters' own site and "research".
How do they claim the middle classes will still be better off, then? By asserting that if one's income drops from $35k to $10k a year, one is better off. Does any sensible person think that way? tinyurl 593htl, table 13.
Another quote from Beacon Hill /SUPPORTERS' data: "If we group taxpayers by income per capita, the bottom five deciles lose under the FairTax." They try their best to fudge this data by claiming "but, under income mobility..." however, the problem with the fudging is that the "mobility" that provides the most benefit in their scenarios is one's income DROPPING into the poor range. As an example, they call dropping from say $30k to $10k an huge INCREASE in "utility" (basically quality of life).
This point is not debateable, as it is in SUPPORTERS' own research:
under the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI, those making from about $15k to $150k a year would pay MOREin federal taxes than they do now, and those making over $150k would pay less than they do now. Do we really want to RAISE THE TAXES of the middle classes so we can LOWER the already very low taxes of the wealthy? This tax is NASTI, and a very bad idea.
What I would like to see with the FairTax is a step reduction in the rate each year from the 23% start to 10%. Put the gov't on a budget. Make them spend what they get more wisely. And there won't be enough to spend on unconstitutional things like entitlements.
Since the FairTax is completely voluntary, and if you buy only used items, you would pay no tax. As for the ex-communist countries with a flat tax -- they started with a true socialist progressive income tax and it was killing their economies. Some had negative GDP. The flat tax pushed them into positive GDP. Income Tax = Fail. Socialism = Fail. FairTax = WIN. Flat tax = WIN. Freedom = WIN.
@B17Boy This is false, as the supporters' own site data shows.The middle classes and poor generally spend all of their income (and often more with cc) surviving--rent, food, auto, gas, utilities. All these things would be taxed hugely under a "fair" tax AKA NationalSales Tax-Inclusive AKA "NASTI". The data at the fairtax site states and shows this-- the middleclasses wouldpay higher taxes under this insane tax and have less quality of life, while the wealthy would pay less and have better lives.
'The first thing to learn is that lowering taxes on the wealthy does not generally create jobs, RAISING taxes on the wealthy does. This is a basic tenet of business economics, pre-tax incentivization vs. after-tax incentivization.
As for the video, the list of countries with "flat" taxes at 2:48. Note that most are ex-communist and have third-world or nearly third-world economies.Estonia. Latvia. Jamaica. Albania. Bulgaria. Yeah, economic powerhouses, lol.
@FairTaxisaLie - So, raising taxes on the people that create the jobs will cause them to create more jobs because they now have less money to use to create those jobs? What kind of tortured logic is that? How can you get more of something that costs money, if you have less money to spend? That's like saying you're going to buy groceries but because of taxes, you have less money to spend but you're going to be able buy more groceries. And that's not a straw argument -- it's a perfect analogy.
@B17Boy It is a basic of business economics, and important to understand with respect to taxes. It is the difference between pre-tax and after-tax incentivizing. Example--
a man expects to make two million$ next year. Assume the 1st million is taxed at 20%, and the 2nd million will be taxed at 80%. The man has a choice with the seond million-- pay 800k to gov, or USE IT hiring people/buying materials to strengthen his biz. He gets $5 usage for $1 by hiring, or keeps the 1$.. Basic business econ
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NASTI" is a farce. It would RAISE the effective tax rate of the middle classes and lower their income and standard-of-living while LOWERING the effective tax rate of the wealthy and increasing their incomes in the double digits-- data showing this is from the SUPPORTERS' site, fairtax org, the Beacon Hill papers. It would shift the tax burden hugely onto the middle classes and pretty much destroy the USA economy.
I think the real argument for the fair tax is that it would give the people financial leverage over the government instead of the government having financial leverage over the people in other words the people would have the power 365 days a year as opposed to every other November 2. Also it's a taxation of choice and not one of force which I think is absolutely appealing to a free people.
@ericbernaldo - Exactly. As Karl Marx said, "A heavy or graduated or progressive income tax is necessary for the proper development of communism." If you believe in freedom and not in communism/socialism, why would you have a taxing structure that makes it easy for what you DON'T want, to develop? If you believe in the income tax then you don't believe in freedom. Supposedly, the income tax is "voluntary" but is enforced as mandatory. The FairTax IS voluntary. That's why gov'ts don't like it.
I like the idea of the fair tax but I just absolutely do not like the idea of a large majority of people getting basically a welfare tax from the government each and every month it seems to me that that would create some sort of dependents on government almost like the many entitlement systems that we have now.
The problem with any sales tax is it makes people spend less or find ways to buy something without having to pay taxes. I order online , out of state to avoid sales tax. If a business taxes me at checkout I go elsewhere. People would spend more if there were no or fewer sales tax. We should have a flat income tax that EVERONE pays and no sales tax.
the flat tax still makes you possibly incriminate yourself by reporting your income. I don't want anyone to go to jail because of taxes. its a drain on our prisons and courts. But honestly we need anything but what we currently have
FairTax is like Friedman's Negative Income Tax idea, because of the prebate. That takes the harshly regressive nature of it away, and it is probably the best idea going. It would let corporations do their thing, which is provide jobs for PEOPLE, and PEOPLE get taxed for what they want to SPEND on, not what they SAVE for.
The goverment is not bankrupt. And people on SSI or Welfare are a drop in the bucket. All this started with ronny raygun. Check out what his buget director said about taxing weath with a surcharge.
This is absolute nonsense. Pure shit. Tax equity not income. This bullshit is a propaganda False arguement. This pits citizen against citizen. The top .1% incomes rape all of us. They will become a differant species if not checked. why should work be taxed and people whom do nothing pay no tax ?
@CaptainImpedance they already pay no taxes. Higher taxes on the rich are a joke. They just burden the upper middle class and wealthy, while the super rich have to pay little if any taxes, which makes it nearly impossible for anyone to be able to rise up to their level and compete with them.
A flat tax would still see an endless parade of lobby groups getting their cause a deduction for this reason or that. A sales tax would see owners of businesses doing *store use* of supplies for private home use to avoid sales tax.
Maybe if people who never worked a minute of their life were not handed SSI checks and unwed mothers with 3 kids were not given a *payraise* for getting pregnant with kid #4...maybe the gov'ment wouldn't be bankrupt.
OK, this guy reminds me of the rabbi on Seinfeld. But he makes a lot of sense sometimes. Clearly though, if one does the necessary research (and it will be exhausting and take a great deal of time) I don't think you can miss the superiority of the FairTax (national sales tax, as he puts it) over the Flat Tax and the current ridiculous system. But I'm not holding my breath...too many ignorant and disengaged Americans, and too many pols who won't give up the power.
Contrarian, I believe that you're wrong for the simple reason that most illegal immigrants are incredibly frugal, spend the bare minimum required for survival, and send the majority of the money that they earn back home to be spent into the economy of their own country.
What is needed is a national sales tax slightly different from the FairTax. We should exempt things like food and essential personal care items as well as used items and not have a rebate. But we let each state decide what does and does not qualify. So Colorado may count beer as food, but Utah probably won't. The poor will not have to pay tax on food, and they can get their clothing second hand, which is cheaper and would also be tax free, so they won't get hit by the tax.
@nrkgalt Too bad every industry will fight to get their product or service on the exempt list. You just traded one jacked up system filled will fraud for a new system just as jacked up with fraud.
@dodgyhingst That is why I would have the exempt list determined by the states, or better yet local governments. The elected officials there are closer to the people and presumably less influenced by special interests.
Slick, instead of saying FairTax and sending people to do their own research, he just says sales tax. This is a sales tactic used to keep your prospect ignorant of your competition. My question is why did he do it?
The sales tax would reward frugal people and penalize spendthrifts. I don't know what effect this would have on the economy, but I don't think anybody would change their spending habits except when buying a car or a house. I think that may adversely affect those markets. For that reason, I prefer the flat tax.
@Houshalter If we could make the Defense Department self-financing and phase out entitlement programs, then what is left of the federal government costs could be covered by voluntary user fees. For starters, the Defense Department could sell training programs on leadership. With the right imagination, they could eventually raise the $700 billion or so that they spend annually.
@nrkgalt no nuclear armed country has ever been invaded, so any military spending is probably unnecessary. The rest of government spending can be decentralized to states, then to local governments, then made voluntarily entirely, or at least so in as if you don't pay the "taxes" to your community, the worst they can do is cut your services and ostracize you. People can vote with their feet if nothing else, and you have alot more say in 1 vote out of a hundred then in a 1 vote out of 300 million.
@Houshalter I would say that the infiltration of the 9/11 hijackers into the US was an invasion. So we do need to spend on defense. It certainly can be done more efficiently than it is being done now. Making the military self financing and phasing out programs like Social Security and Medicare will allow taxes to be phased out also and then what remains of federal governments costs can be covered by user fees.
@nrkgalt it was a terrorist attack, not an invasion. It's no where near comparable to something like Pearl Harbor or any actual military force threatening the population, and certainly doesn't deserve the same amount of funding to fight.
@Houshalter Pearl Harbor did not fit the classical definition of an invasion either, as the Japanese did not have any boots on the ground. At least some of the funding for the war can be paid for by assets seized from the enemy. The rest can be financed the way I described above.
@nrkgalt reparations and seized assets barely make up for the cost of a war, and generally you are not stealing it from the defeated government, but it's helpless subjects. War profiteering and Imperialist stuff in general can also lead to some very dangerous incentive structures.
The problem with relying on any one tax is that it is quickly circumvented by clever tax dodgers.
Say what you will about an assortment of smaller taxes, they usually apply to most of us at least some of the time. As long as no single tax is huge, most people will not try especially hard to avoid all of them.
The problem with the Flat Tax is that you would raise taxes on Middle Class people who can't afford it. And then cut taxes on High Earners who don't need it. So the Flat Tax would be Regressive.
Fair Tax has been thoroughly researched at a cost of over 22 million dollars and it would be tremendously beneficial to America and all citizens. Detailed information is available at Fair Tax.Org. Every citizen should visit this website.
With a flat income tax, you still have to tell the government how much money you make, and the government still needs to bureaucracy to keep track of all that. a national sales tax with exemptions for food, essential personal care items, and second hand items would insulate the poor form the tax and eliminate the need for a large bureaucracy. Each state would define what constitutes food and other exempted items within its borders.
I got a really Radical idea, let's just get rid of all the Taxes in this country and keep printing more money, and the FED can go on a Quantitative Easing spree with it's printing press!
The government should earn its revenue through issuing its own currency then lending it to borrowers. the interest is used to pay for a bare bones government. Every other service is provided by the free market. Welfare for the poor and unable are provided by charity, and since people who are untaxed and free are prosperous can afford to be very generous.
municipal governments would be responsible to raise money locally for police fire etc, in what means they see fit. Maybe a flat sales tax.
Excellent brief explanation. Exactly why I don't support the flat tax; it's still an income tax. Income tax started out flat. Mm-hmm, and look what happened. The only way to keep a flat tax flat is to abolish the 16th amendment and the IRS.
This is a great plan, but only if you're rich. I'm not rich. Let's be clear about something here. His implication that the rich contribute more to American prosperity is false. It is the rich shipping jobs overseas. It is the rich encouraging illegal immigration to drive down wages of working people. Look at the facts. Unless you're wealthy, you've been stagnating or getting poorer for many years now. Only the wealthiest Americans have been doing better. Still, they want more.
The FairTax will raise the standard of living for all current tax payers. The amount we each pay will DROP because MORE people will be paying the total revenue neutral amount, including illegals and criminals. Also, prices will likely drop because companies will no longer need to pay tax experts and lawyers. This "compliance cost" right now amounts to $900 per person on average. Granted, SOME? people will benefit more than others, but there will be no loosers with the FairTax.
Alan Greenspan (former Federal Reserve Chairman) now works for John Paulson's fund. Guess what John Paulson's fund's BIGGEST position is right now? GOLD. . Don't say you weren't told. Protect your families wealth. Visit: goldsave.co/
@MFP1520 No one will ever pay this tax, moron. ITs a fucking FARCE. Got that? Its own leaders know its a farce. In their fine print, they pretend they will tax every city government, every state government, to collect MOST of federal government revenue.
Did you know that? Fuck no you didn't know that, cause you are too stupid to read the book and spot the bullshit. Read the Fairtax Book, for example, page 148, and Fairtax The Truth Book page 138. And use your fucking brain this time.
I don't think I want to live in any of those countries he labeled as "moved to flat tax" iceland's economy collapsed more than any other european countries, Jamaica? Czech Republic? Bulgaria? are you kidding me Bulgaria is more corrupt than we are, the mafia king of Bulgaria is better known than the President... Iraq? get out of here, I thought I was going to watch something as to why one would work... what a clown
Both are better, but the problem with the Fair tax is that it wontwork, let's plug in some real world scenerios...say you own a used car lot and have a buyer for a 5k car, you tell him there is a "sale" today, the car is 500.00 but you must leave a 4500 tip, he pays cash, car is writtenup for 500 and tax is paid on that.
Buyer saves big on tax, seller gets his price for the car, government gets next to no money.....great idea but it wont work
I prefer the sales. I'm tired of Big Brother raping me in my paycheck before raping me in my wallet. I'd like to get -all- of my money before deciding what to do with it. Sick of it being pilfered on payday, then pilfered at the register, only to be misspent on things the American people don't benefit from.
The next step after tax reform is to destroy the Federal Reserve and go back to a GOLD STANDARD. As it is, paper money backs paper money backs paper money. :(
The National Sales Tax is better for the simple reason that illegal immigrants would no longer be getting a free ride, even money earned under the table or illegally would be subject to tax when spend. Mafiosos and money launderers would be paying their fair share when the money is spent.
@ContrarianExpatriate who the heck would spend money in the US if it was laundered? if I had 5 billion, the last place where i'd spend it would be in a place with a NST or VAT.
It doesn't matter what kind of tax they give us, they will find a way to game the system into their advantage. The best thing to do is to remove all federal taxes completely & assign them a flat percentage paid by each state per quarter. If you want to cut federal spending, make the states pay for it directly. The flat tax is the best system but lets limit to a state level. It's about time the IRS gets divided by zero.
@ContrarianExpatriate - Another good reason to have the FairTax. Right now, money from prostitution, drugs, gambling, etc. does not get entered onto a 1040 form and is never taxed. You're SUPPOSED to, but since a 1040 can be used against you in court, what kind of criminal would claim that? Now, let's enact the FairTax! Some mafioso buys a new car, we get the tax. He buys or builds a house, we get the tax. He buys a boat, we get the tax. The FairTax will now tax illegal income.
@B17Boy Any alleged increase from this "taxing of criminals" is negated by grey and black markets that would spring up. PS-- the "mafioso" would buy a "used" (have fun defining that) car (or a new car with "used" paperwork) and pay no tax. Or a villa in the Bahamas... and pay no tax. Or etc., etc., etc. . This crazy tax would greatly benefit the wealthy and rich "mafiosos"-- data at the supporters own site shows that the midclasses would pay more taxes and the rich would pay less taxes under it.
@FairTaxisaLie - Wrong again! The term "used" is already defined by the gov't. Strike one. If "used car" paperwork is used then two or more people have to conspire. Easy enough for the police to check. New cars coming into the lot vs. new going out. Strike two. They already buy villas in the Bahamas or elsewhere. What if they want to buy a winter place in Vail, CO? Ooops! Gotta pay that tax! Strike three! The only lie here is your name. A more true name would be SocialismisaLie.
@B17Boy And again you fall into the trap-- all that paperwork to keep track of, tons of new work keeping track of whether everything (not just cars-- TVS, refrigerators, steroes, computers, et cetera--OOPS) sold is new or used? Defeats any claim that their would be less "compliance cost" (a claim that has been repeatedly debunked anyway). This is one of many reasons why this idiotic tax will never happen in the USA. The first (which it seems you conceded) is that it hammers the midclasses.
@B17Boy Let's look carefully at real estate sales. ALL home and real estate sales in the USA done through a mortgage would likely be taxed as new-- the mortgage is "new". BUt what about pre-owned houses paid for in cash? If taxed-- the wealthy will be incentivized to buy in other countries rather than here (sorry, Vail, congrats, Banff). If NOT taxed-- well then the wealthy will just buy up real estate, just as they will with stocks (not taxed).
@FairTaxisaLie - The only lie is you. If the house is used, that is, it is not new, the tax does not apply. Same for cars, brooms, DVD players, end tables, garden hoses, pens, paper, etc. What part of "new items at the retail level" don't you get? Also, why do you hate the wealthy? Because you are not? Why don't you take your socialist lies about how the wealthy are bad with you on your way to North Korea. You can learn first hand how wonderful socialism is.
@B17Boy Okay, and so we assume "used" real estate is not taxed-- then the wealthy buy up all real estate (tax free) and rent it to the middles (who then have to pay 30% tax on rent).
And no, the prebate only covers "necessities" at a poor to lower mid level. Here is a direct quote from their "research": "If we group taxpayers by income per capita, the bottom five deciles lose under the FairTax."
Why do you hate the middle classes (about 80% of the nation)?
@ContrarianExpatriate Grey and black markets would spring up and negate any increase from taxing "mafiosos" and illegals. And middleclass people would pay more in taxes than now and have less quality of life while the wealthy paid less in taxes and saw a huge increase in their inc /quality of life-- this is from the data at the site of SUPPORTERS of the "Fair" Tax aka NAtiona Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NASTI".
PS- money launderers wouldn't pay a dime, they wouldn't need to "launder" any more.
@FairTaxisaLie - You don't get it, do you? It has NOTHING to do with the MONEY. The money is a straw argument. The taxes will either be forcibly extracted by a gestapo-esque agency enforcing a socialist income tax (under the guise of "voluntary compliance" -- whatever the hell that is) or they will be paid in a true voluntary, free, and fair system. So stop harping about something we care nothing about. All we want is to end the socialist lie.
@B17Boy No, you don't get it-- there is nothing "voluntary" or "free" or "fair" about massively raising taxes on the midclasses for the food, medical care, roof-over-their-heads, clothing, gasoline , utilities, etc. that they need to live simple middle class lives -- raising mids taxes while lowering the already low taxes of the rich who already have a quality of life beyond what most middles will ever see. Keep dreaming about your feudalistic plutocracy, maybe you can resurrect Louis XVI too.
@FairTaxisaLie - No, YOU still don't get it. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE TAXES! We're going to have to pay taxes regardless. It's about GETTING RID OF A SOCIALIST INCOME TAX AND THE NAZI-ESQUE TACTICS USED TO ENFORCE IT! And yes, it is voluntary, free, and fair. Voluntary because you pay when you buy new retail goods. Free because it's your choice to buy and therefore to pay. Fair because everyone pays the same rate. No matter how much you lie about it, the intelligent people will see through you.
@B17Boy Wake up, is NOT just on retail goods-- it taxes food, rent,utilities, legal fees, medical fees--nearly EVERYTHING, at 30%exc sales tax. So unless you want to live naked in a Unabomber shack in the woods eating dandelion soup and hoping you can catch a fish to eat, hoping you don't get sick, and not working, you have no choice. The fairest tax is and always will be an income tax (and a decently progressive one), because the more you make the more you have reaped benefits from society.
@FairTaxisaLie - Yes, it taxes food because those are NEW ITEMS AT THE RETAIL LEVEL. It taxes all that BUT you get the Prebate to cover food, utilities, etc. (necessities). Have you even read the book?
So, you would rather have a socialist income tax that is claimed by it's proponents to be "voluntary" but is enforced as mandatory by a Gestapo-esque IRS with a horrendous history of constitutional and civil rights violations? Are you mad? There is NOTHING fair about socialism.
@B17Boy TRhe book is full of proven falsehoods-- have you READ THEIR OWN SELF-TOUTED "RESEARCH"/ DATA? Of course you haven't. IF you had you would realize how you have been fooled by Boortz and gang. Here's another hint for you-- sales taxes/ VATs are favorites in socialistic nations. Taxes are not voluntary-- you have the choice to live in this nation or somewhere else, that is thge choice. Your bizarre idea that taxes should be voluntary shows a lack of understanding of what taxes are.
Actually the sales tax or "fairtax" wouldn't add a tax burden on the poor because of the prebate: an automatic monthly refund of the portion of the sales tax paid for the basic necessities. For a family of four it could be as much as $600 a month on top of their paycheck which they would also pay no taxes on. Even if they paid no income tax, they are still paying social security and medicare (7.5 % of income) So the current system is actually placing a heavier burden on the poor than a fairtax.
I agree with this video. I would prefer a sales tax or a flat income tax over what we have now. The problems with both are the following. If you have an income tax, the government still "owns" your income. If you have a sales tax, you add a tax burden on the poor. The fair tax is way too complicated. A sales tax would have to be flat, not progressive, and not start entitlements. Then the question arises. What do you tax? Since we need a gov't, technically we should all pay taxes.
I like this idea. I would reverse the order, and pursue a national sales tax that must be contingent on a full repeal of the income tax. Then you have the legal mechanism in place so that opponents can't say "we won't have any taxes."
Then you go full force on repealing the income tax. The reasons for which they are using this tax are unconstitutional to begin with.
Go for the national sales tax and remove income tax. It would do so much to to help many people in this country and pay down debt as well as encourage investment and savings.
@ericman123 Actually it does work, but it doesnt make poor poorer. Here in Texas there is no income tax and no taxes that burden businesses/rich people and so theyre able to invest in human capital (create jobs). In 2008, Texas had a better job growth rate than all the other 49 states combined. So, a once poor person will now have a job with a healthy income
@jj69camaro your idiot little sales tax in Texas is like comparing a pile of shit to a rocket. Your sales tax has nothing fucking to do with Fairtax.
For example, you fucking moron, your Texas sales tax does not have every city in Texas paying 23% of its spending to Austin, does it retard? No, it doesnt. Dallas and every other city would say fuck you.
But under Farce Tax, every CITY, every STATE government has to pay massive taxes.
What about the taxes on things i buy? Like cigarettes, yummy junk food, booze, soda, ect. I dont want the taxes on things I buy to go up out of control! The tax on cigarettes in Texas is over a dollar! Thats higher than so many other states. I hate sin taxes! How do you fix that? This only show the income tax and not all the other taxes. What do you think?
@jj69camaro Actually Texas is in very bad trouble economically. They are almost bankrupt and take in more federal aid per capita then all the rest of the states. It is a scam!
@jj69camaro Actually Texas is in very bad trouble economically. They are almost bankrupt and take in more federal aid per capita then all the rest of the states. It is a scam!
@jj69camaro You are confusing income taxes with corporate taxes. Businesses go to Texas because they can pay less on their profits, not because employees don't pay a state income tax-- and state income tax rates do not hurt the middle class employees in most states as much as the high sales taxes do. Sales tax=tax on poor and middles.
PS-- Texas job growth hinges some on increasing gas prices.
PPS-- Texas' unemp. rate did not decrease from Feb2010 to Feb2011-- while it did in 43 other states.
@jj69camaro PPPS -- Texas government has a huge budget deficit crisis (as bad as California's), and is cutting services for the poor and middleclasses.
@FairTaxisaLie - So that means they're having to cut services that were a bad idea in the first place? You bet! Probably instituted by socialists like yourself. Now, that crap is killing them. If those services hadn't been there, there wouldn't be a deficit. Cities here in CA have stupid services like giving clean needles to junkies. The only health issues would be among junkies. So just cut the useless shit, instead of cutting everything by 10% or so. Let's start by abolishing socialism.
@B17Boy I guess you don't realize that paying for inexpensive services like giving addicts clean needles (and sometimes methadone to try and help them work toward ending their addiction) is immensely cheaper than the medical costs, costs which we will all end up paying, if they get AIDS. Typical short-sighted greedy rightwinger, attacking the services YOU don't like (usually the ones that help all of society in the long run) without realizing how they beneift us all.
I would prefer a consumption tax. Prohibit, in the Constitution, graduated (progressive) taxes unless in time of War, and one big enough to suspend habeus corpus, then grant Congress the right to flat VAT or flat income tax, with any exception to the flatness requiring a 2/3 majority in Congress.
Pretty much the only things popular enough to break the 2/3 majority would be food, water, shelter, medicine and education. Those could be taxed at 1/4 rate.
Fairtax is a silly farce -- it's own leaders refuse to have hearings about it under oath.
Since the Fairtax is based on a massive new tax on government (that's their biggest source of revenue - a tax on government) it's just BS. And the leaders KNOW it's BS.
They hid this massive tax on government in their fine print -- but that's how their "math" adds up.
In other words -- their math is insane, and they know it.
Look Mark. you are not convincing anyone here. Your a sad little man with terrible math skills and no life. I'd say go get laid but who ever got you on the registered sex offenders list would probably think it was a bad idea. anyone who actually cared enough to set you straight is buried three pages back in your spam.
On problem of both the flat income tax and the progressive income tax is that they encourage consumption of imports. a fine against productivity exports jobs.
The only person that pays the cost of any tax including the "flat tax" is the consumer. if no one consumes your product or service you have no income to pay tax on.
I do like the idea of taxing comsumption rather than productivity but there is almost no chance that the Fair Tax will ever become law. A flat tax is also far less complicated to impliment and administer and is ultimately more 'fair' in my view. Reform is so very needed in our tax code and I will listen to any sincere attempts to make it more fair and efficient and less onerous. If a serious policital leader wants to champion this, they'll have my full and enthusiastic support.
Sales tax is better because a sales tax is unavoidable. There are so many parties involved that it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to skimp on taxes.
With your flat tax, you won't pay for your illegally gotten profits (which you should and could with sales tax) and you can still work a deal with your employer to lie to the government.
Fairtax gets MOST of its revenue from a TAX on the government. Yet they hide that in ONE sentence you dumb fuck Think real hard why they would pretend to get most of their revenue from an impossible source.
Have you figured it out yet dumb fuck?
BECAUSE IT'S BULLLL LSHIT
Have them list every city and state -- and show how much they expect each to pay in sales tax.
Think dumb fuck -- why havent they done this list already?
Fairtax is the "plan" for a national sales tax that supposedly will magically bring in more money than we get now -- but do it by a sales tax on everything.
On cities, on medicare, on rent, on EVERYTHING.
But no prices will go up. YOu somehow pay 1.00 for a loaf of bread now, and will pay same 1.00 for bread then. But all your taxes will be in that 1.00.
Brian -- you have never heard of the Fairtax plan? Dumb fuck - they have several NYT best selling books about it -- 100 sponsors of it (at one point) in Congress, Huckabee pushed it when he ran for president, and 600,000 volunteers (supposedly) ---
Well, seems like we got unlimited deficit. Let's wing it! Take away all the other taxes in the same bill at the same time and introduce a tax, slowly increasing in percentage until budget is balanced.
That is, if we still have unlimited deficit.
But realistically, one day at a time South, one day at a time!
Natonal Sales Tax to be paid by everyone...citizens, non-citizens, visitors, legal and illegal - instead of the few who now pay income tax. Collected at the point of sale, like any other sales tax - by existing systems. No one exempt, no deductions, no loop holes. No withholding, so all income is disposable. More people paying so lower rate. Could be aroud 4-6%.
It would have to be phased in so the US continues to have revenues during the transition. A harmless 1% could start it while lowering the income tax by at least twice that amount (since more people will be paying the 1%). Only don't let congress write the law. Give it to a fifth grade class to write!
Brian dumb fuck -- Im telling you how fucking stupid you are. There is a tax plan out there (though it's a farce) that's had 100 sponsors in Congress, repeated best selling books, 600,000 volunteers -- ect ect.
And you never HEARD of it. Yet you are some kind of informed fuck head that knows all about a national sales tax (which is what Fairtax is).
Well shit, I still don't know what the fuck Fairtax is so why in the hell would I have to give a shit what they claim the percentage will be.
You are the only one that has EVER informed me of this 23% shit. I never knew that before you brought it up. Do you think I give a shit what the expected tax would be?
All I can say for certain is that the current tax amount must equal in the new sales tax system...
So I don't get your point, I didn't even know there was a plan...
Mark, profanity is not an argument. Therefore, your post is spam. Occasionally, the use of profanity may be justified, such as cursing something that is clearly evil, but this is not one of those times.
Chapter 10 question 6 in FairTax: the Truth answers that criticism. it's not on page 1 because reference books (for the most part) start with history of a topic.
Just stop talking Mark. If anything is a farce lt's your blog, that is why it got shut down
so your solution is to spam opposing viewpoints off the page? That's not the actions of a man on the winning side of the debate. That is the actions of a little boy stomping on his sisters toys because he didn't get any.
It's not opposing viewpoints- plural- that we are suppressing. It's one troll who hides by over ten different user names (and growing) who keeps using the same profanity-landen statements (not even arguments, just baseless assertions). We can deal with honest dissent or honest questions; trolling and profanity are spam.
The government can't pay itself a t ax dumb fuck - and it wont. California will never pay this tax, dumb fuck. Nor will every city in CA, nor will ever county.
Got that retard?
Fairtax pretends all this money will come rolling in -- that's how their math "adds up"
So guess what dumb fuck - their math doesnt fucking add up.
They know it wont, dumb fuck. It's a hoax, a farce, it's pure fucking bulllll shit. They arent trying to pass their own farce, idiot.
Well, Marc got a new nickname. Marc, why don't you explain why the government is already pretending to pay itself tax revenue (by imposing income taxes on government employees and contractors)? That's what the embedded taxes are as applied to government goods and services- the government paying itself taxes.
Fairtax is a farce --- its just bullshit and the leaders know it. They aren't trying to pass it.
Just ONE example -- it pretends it will just tax ALL government spending. Any government agency or level that spends -- medicare, pentagon, highway construction, whatever -- has to pay 23% of that into the federal government.
It's fucking insane shit. And they know it .
They had to pretend that to make their "math" work.
Obviously their math doesnt work -- and they know it.
Sources - dumb fuck - look at their own videos idiot. Their OWN fucking shit. No taxes on capital gains, no taxes on leverage buy outs, no taxes on credit swaps ---- pretty much amounts to ONLY taxes on work.
If you want a flat tax dumb fuck -- have a flat tax on all income. What the fuck is the matter with you? They call it "flat" tax but want exceptions to all their favorite income. So call it what it is, ZERO taz on their income - all the taxes paid by someone else.
So what are you saying? No sources? other then 148 of the FT book which explains why the government should continue to pay taxes, and your own opinionated blog, you've got nothing.
(sigh)
Anyone still paying attention to this inane banter. go ahead and read his "source" in fact read that chapter for some context. Hell the book was a best seller and well written if a bit right leaning. try it out. make your own decision.
Watch what happens, you fucking idiots, when you say "Okay lets tax all income alike".
CATO NEWT FORBES would shit their pants at a real Flat tax. That's the opposite of what they want. They want no fucking part of an actual across the board flat tax.
They are trying, you dumb fuck, to make their income untaxed completely, then just call a "flat tax"
YES Fairtax is fairy tale of "taxing the government'
Flat tax? That''s better - BUT --the devil is in the details. Every fucking tax plan put out by people like CATO or FAIRTAX is pile of shit , dressed up like a meal.
Flat tax on WHAT income you fucking idiot? All income? Just income from work?
CATO, the GOP, Newt, all want to put it ALL on people who WORK for it -- and have ZERO tax on their shit.
In other words its fucking con game. Flat tax on ALL income makes sense.
Fairtax leaders know it's a fucking hoax -- a farce. Sure it sounds great dumb ass, until you look at the fine print. Fucking moron -- go look at it.
No one will vote for this shit fool - you would shit your pants. They can't fucking tax the government you idiot -- but that's what their math pretends to do, idiot.
It's fucking make believe shit -- they are sellilng you pie in the sky fucking nonsense. Ain't nobody trying to pass thiis shit.
9pt9 -- no dumb fuck -- its not a good idea. Its literally a hoax. Its fucking Santa Claus, idiot.
They do NOT have any research -- go reach what they call "research" Its a fucking joke.
It's all nonsense -total nonsense. You can not really fucking tax the government moron. Its FUCKING BULLSHIT.
And they know its fucking bullshit. Got that retard? It's a fucking hoax. They are not trying to pass it - they nor were going to try. Look at the details dumb fuck -- its bogus shit.
@9pt9 The fair tax wont work, why because sellers will write up the sale for far less than the actual cost and get the rest as a "tip" say you sell a 5k car, tell the buyer it is today only 500 plus a 4500 tip, tax is paid on the 500, not 5k, great idea, but it wont work
@9pt9 I dont see anyway in the world anything could be implemented to stop somebody from selling a 5k car for 500.00.
or 3k of furniture for 300.00 and so on.
also a fair tax system would encourage LOTS of trading and bartering, again no tax paid to government, I am all in favor of a better and different tax system, but you have to think real world scenerios.
This has been flagged as spam show
Read tiny url 593htl . It is a link to fairtaxorg's own research.The important part to read is page 30 on, "Appendix: Households’ Well-Being under the FairTax", in which they clearly state that according to their research those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year would on average pay MORE in taxes under the "Fair" Tax than now. They try and fudge around this with what they call "income mobility", however Table 13 makes it clear--that mobility is into poverty-- and they call that a positive.
FairTaxisaLie 5 days ago
Both are garbage. The progressive tax does not discourage success, You will always judge your own success relative to your peers. This vid is just a simple trap with simple WEAK arguments targeted at the feeble mined.
cyborganic99 1 month ago
Didn't Iceland go bankrupt?
TMBrd89 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hasn't the GOP party realized an unintended consequences of a flat tax. There are 1.3 Mil Accountants in the US according to bls.gov. Surely a flat tax would put all the accountants and as many bookkeepers out of work. Rick Perry is a moron. Political suicide
elizabethpowell 3 months ago in playlist Taxes Explained
Flat Tax
1isaM111er 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
if U haven't heard it , U should ...
We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. Politicians love visible beneficiaries & invisible victims !
There is no such thing as a good tax. Politicians are leaches, mostly !
Three groups spend other people's money: children, thieves, politicians. All three need supervision.
onstageagain 5 months ago
The Democrats like the current tax system because it lets them impose their socialist transfer of wealth.
PERRY FOR PRESIDENT!!!
VictoryRepublican 5 months ago
The current system, and the past system was developed by Republicans. Don't burn books read them.
As a liberal, I am in favor of a national tax. However as the conservative economist Thomas Sowell points out in his book Knowledge and Decision, you have to ask the question "Then what happens?"
BTW, how can anyone vote for a candidate that wants to secede from the US. I did not join the military to fight for traitors like him
ttannyhill 5 months ago
@VictoryRepublican There's no real difference between Republicans and Democrats. Either way they're represented by the elite and are only going to do what it takes to make money. That's their job. Perry seems to be the biggest Chronie on the list right now, and he'll probably become the candidate. By the way, I hope you don't actually think your vote matters, unless you're a part of the electoral college that is.
Nervousification 3 months ago
How about Tariffs?
Salvysahagun 5 months ago
From the Cato Institute! HAH! And you want me to believe what this guy says? Not happening! The rich win! They always win.. they buy and pay for all the rules and laws they want.. The system has to change.. has to.
hlhronec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The "Fair" Tax IS basically class warfare,the wealthy declaring war on the middleclasses by raising their effective tax rates. It would, by Americans for Fair Taxation's own admission, raise the effective tax rate of those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year while lowering the effective rate of those making $150,000 and up a year. Source:tinyurl 593htl, page 30 on -pay particular attention to table 13, years 7-8 -- would you be "better off" if your income dropped from $25k to less than $10k?
FairTaxisaLie 6 months ago
B17Boy is typical of FT/NASTI supporters-- he will clamor on how opponents are somehow "socialists " for "class warfare", when it is he who is for class warfare-- wanting to greatly lower the taxes of the wealthy and increase the taxes of those making from $15k to $15k a year. That IS warfare, declared on the middleclass,who struggle to get by. He is for a feudal plutocracy, and imagines that somehow he could buy everything used (rent?food?utilities?medicine?doctors bills?) to avoid taxation.
FairTaxisaLie 6 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
For proof that the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales Tax Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of those making from about $15k to $150k a year while greatly lowering the taxes of most who make from around $150k up, one only needs to read and understand pages 30 on of one of fairtaxorg's own "research" at tinyurl 593htl. Pay particular attention to table 13-- this is how they claim the middleclass is better off under FT/NASTI, by them FALLING INTO POVERTY LEVEL every few years (see years 7-8).
FairTaxisaLie 6 months ago
I'm for completely removing the federal government's power to tax. It should be funded by the states through a flat percentage of their income.
KenMacMillan 6 months ago
Interesting. As a Californian, I could get on that bandwagon. Many of our dollars go to state that hate us for our freedom and lifestyle.
Question, how do we raise money for defense or infrastructure. The private sector does not fund these types of things.
ttannyhill 5 months ago
@ttannyhill The states would get their money through whatever means its citizens permit, preferably a flat tax of some type. The money for all federal expenditures would come from the states. In order to make this work we'd have to decide on what exactly we want the federal government to do and amend article 1 sec. 8 & 9 accordingly. We'd also have to repeal the 16th & 17th amendments to the constitution & we'd have to so I'm not getting my hopes up. It would take 100 years to make it happen.
KenMacMillan 5 months ago
Don't listen to *FairTaxisaLie*. He is a socialst that believes that a class warfare based income tax is superior to fairness and freedom. Somehow, he thinks this is about money and can't get it through his angstrom-sized brain that we're going to have to pay taxes regardless. What we want is to get rid of the socialist income tax and its gestapo-esque enforcement. The FairTax is truly voluntary; you only pay when you buy new goods at the retail level. The only enforcement is on retailers.
B17Boy 6 months ago
If you're talking about the bad politicians you should be showing the whole GOP they are the biggest criminals....
By the way you're a SPECIAL INTEREST dipshit.....
usapegasus007 7 months ago
it's funny that only one tax is for the normal person the rest are for the rich... and they have the loopholes to get out of paying
usapegasus007 7 months ago
The "Fair" Tax aka national Sales Tax- Inclusive aka NASTI would on average raise the federal taxes of those making from $15k-$150k a year while lowering the fed taxes of those making over $150k a year. This is not debateable, it is from supporters' own site and "research".
How do they claim the middle classes will still be better off, then? By asserting that if one's income drops from $35k to $10k a year, one is better off. Does any sensible person think that way? tinyurl 593htl, table 13.
FairTaxisaLie 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Another quote from Beacon Hill /SUPPORTERS' data: "If we group taxpayers by income per capita, the bottom five deciles lose under the FairTax." They try their best to fudge this data by claiming "but, under income mobility..." however, the problem with the fudging is that the "mobility" that provides the most benefit in their scenarios is one's income DROPPING into the poor range. As an example, they call dropping from say $30k to $10k an huge INCREASE in "utility" (basically quality of life).
Diskatop 7 months ago
This point is not debateable, as it is in SUPPORTERS' own research:
under the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI, those making from about $15k to $150k a year would pay MOREin federal taxes than they do now, and those making over $150k would pay less than they do now. Do we really want to RAISE THE TAXES of the middle classes so we can LOWER the already very low taxes of the wealthy? This tax is NASTI, and a very bad idea.
Diskatop 7 months ago
What I would like to see with the FairTax is a step reduction in the rate each year from the 23% start to 10%. Put the gov't on a budget. Make them spend what they get more wisely. And there won't be enough to spend on unconstitutional things like entitlements.
B17Boy 8 months ago
Since the FairTax is completely voluntary, and if you buy only used items, you would pay no tax. As for the ex-communist countries with a flat tax -- they started with a true socialist progressive income tax and it was killing their economies. Some had negative GDP. The flat tax pushed them into positive GDP. Income Tax = Fail. Socialism = Fail. FairTax = WIN. Flat tax = WIN. Freedom = WIN.
B17Boy 8 months ago
@B17Boy This is false, as the supporters' own site data shows.The middle classes and poor generally spend all of their income (and often more with cc) surviving--rent, food, auto, gas, utilities. All these things would be taxed hugely under a "fair" tax AKA NationalSales Tax-Inclusive AKA "NASTI". The data at the fairtax site states and shows this-- the middleclasses wouldpay higher taxes under this insane tax and have less quality of life, while the wealthy would pay less and have better lives.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
Both are very bad ideas.
'The first thing to learn is that lowering taxes on the wealthy does not generally create jobs, RAISING taxes on the wealthy does. This is a basic tenet of business economics, pre-tax incentivization vs. after-tax incentivization.
As for the video, the list of countries with "flat" taxes at 2:48. Note that most are ex-communist and have third-world or nearly third-world economies.Estonia. Latvia. Jamaica. Albania. Bulgaria. Yeah, economic powerhouses, lol.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie - So, raising taxes on the people that create the jobs will cause them to create more jobs because they now have less money to use to create those jobs? What kind of tortured logic is that? How can you get more of something that costs money, if you have less money to spend? That's like saying you're going to buy groceries but because of taxes, you have less money to spend but you're going to be able buy more groceries. And that's not a straw argument -- it's a perfect analogy.
B17Boy 8 months ago
@B17Boy It is a basic of business economics, and important to understand with respect to taxes. It is the difference between pre-tax and after-tax incentivizing. Example--
a man expects to make two million$ next year. Assume the 1st million is taxed at 20%, and the 2nd million will be taxed at 80%. The man has a choice with the seond million-- pay 800k to gov, or USE IT hiring people/buying materials to strengthen his biz. He gets $5 usage for $1 by hiring, or keeps the 1$.. Basic business econ
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NASTI" is a farce. It would RAISE the effective tax rate of the middle classes and lower their income and standard-of-living while LOWERING the effective tax rate of the wealthy and increasing their incomes in the double digits-- data showing this is from the SUPPORTERS' site, fairtax org, the Beacon Hill papers. It would shift the tax burden hugely onto the middle classes and pretty much destroy the USA economy.
"Fair" Tax = Fail.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
I think the real argument for the fair tax is that it would give the people financial leverage over the government instead of the government having financial leverage over the people in other words the people would have the power 365 days a year as opposed to every other November 2. Also it's a taxation of choice and not one of force which I think is absolutely appealing to a free people.
ericbernaldo 8 months ago
@ericbernaldo - Exactly. As Karl Marx said, "A heavy or graduated or progressive income tax is necessary for the proper development of communism." If you believe in freedom and not in communism/socialism, why would you have a taxing structure that makes it easy for what you DON'T want, to develop? If you believe in the income tax then you don't believe in freedom. Supposedly, the income tax is "voluntary" but is enforced as mandatory. The FairTax IS voluntary. That's why gov'ts don't like it.
B17Boy 8 months ago
I like the idea of the fair tax but I just absolutely do not like the idea of a large majority of people getting basically a welfare tax from the government each and every month it seems to me that that would create some sort of dependents on government almost like the many entitlement systems that we have now.
ericbernaldo 8 months ago
I advocate both tax systems but I am more inclined to support a flat tax.
Mage13246 9 months ago
both but at a low rate NST-10% + FT-12%
harrisonconstantinou 9 months ago
The problem with any sales tax is it makes people spend less or find ways to buy something without having to pay taxes. I order online , out of state to avoid sales tax. If a business taxes me at checkout I go elsewhere. People would spend more if there were no or fewer sales tax. We should have a flat income tax that EVERONE pays and no sales tax.
billybassman21 9 months ago
the flat tax still makes you possibly incriminate yourself by reporting your income. I don't want anyone to go to jail because of taxes. its a drain on our prisons and courts. But honestly we need anything but what we currently have
jjmdirector 9 months ago
I what the flat tax not the fair tax
4evertexan 9 months ago
FairTax is like Friedman's Negative Income Tax idea, because of the prebate. That takes the harshly regressive nature of it away, and it is probably the best idea going. It would let corporations do their thing, which is provide jobs for PEOPLE, and PEOPLE get taxed for what they want to SPEND on, not what they SAVE for.
prunar 10 months ago
The goverment is not bankrupt. And people on SSI or Welfare are a drop in the bucket. All this started with ronny raygun. Check out what his buget director said about taxing weath with a surcharge.
CaptainImpedance 11 months ago
This is absolute nonsense. Pure shit. Tax equity not income. This bullshit is a propaganda False arguement. This pits citizen against citizen. The top .1% incomes rape all of us. They will become a differant species if not checked. why should work be taxed and people whom do nothing pay no tax ?
CaptainImpedance 11 months ago
@CaptainImpedance they already pay no taxes. Higher taxes on the rich are a joke. They just burden the upper middle class and wealthy, while the super rich have to pay little if any taxes, which makes it nearly impossible for anyone to be able to rise up to their level and compete with them.
Houshalter 11 months ago
But *special interests* never lose.
A flat tax would still see an endless parade of lobby groups getting their cause a deduction for this reason or that. A sales tax would see owners of businesses doing *store use* of supplies for private home use to avoid sales tax.
Maybe if people who never worked a minute of their life were not handed SSI checks and unwed mothers with 3 kids were not given a *payraise* for getting pregnant with kid #4...maybe the gov'ment wouldn't be bankrupt.
dodgyhingst 11 months ago
Comment removed
csmt8c 11 months ago
No dollar shall be taxed more than once.
JackBlair2 11 months ago
@JackBlair2 Where? I shall move there.
dodgyhingst 11 months ago
OK, this guy reminds me of the rabbi on Seinfeld. But he makes a lot of sense sometimes. Clearly though, if one does the necessary research (and it will be exhausting and take a great deal of time) I don't think you can miss the superiority of the FairTax (national sales tax, as he puts it) over the Flat Tax and the current ridiculous system. But I'm not holding my breath...too many ignorant and disengaged Americans, and too many pols who won't give up the power.
utoobia 11 months ago
Contrarian, I believe that you're wrong for the simple reason that most illegal immigrants are incredibly frugal, spend the bare minimum required for survival, and send the majority of the money that they earn back home to be spent into the economy of their own country.
Devildonk 11 months ago 7
What is needed is a national sales tax slightly different from the FairTax. We should exempt things like food and essential personal care items as well as used items and not have a rebate. But we let each state decide what does and does not qualify. So Colorado may count beer as food, but Utah probably won't. The poor will not have to pay tax on food, and they can get their clothing second hand, which is cheaper and would also be tax free, so they won't get hit by the tax.
nrkgalt 1 year ago
@nrkgalt Too bad every industry will fight to get their product or service on the exempt list. You just traded one jacked up system filled will fraud for a new system just as jacked up with fraud.
dodgyhingst 11 months ago
@dodgyhingst That is why I would have the exempt list determined by the states, or better yet local governments. The elected officials there are closer to the people and presumably less influenced by special interests.
nrkgalt 11 months ago
Slick, instead of saying FairTax and sending people to do their own research, he just says sales tax. This is a sales tactic used to keep your prospect ignorant of your competition. My question is why did he do it?
TheAmericanRifleman 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The sales tax would reward frugal people and penalize spendthrifts. I don't know what effect this would have on the economy, but I don't think anybody would change their spending habits except when buying a car or a house. I think that may adversely affect those markets. For that reason, I prefer the flat tax.
Tarman76 1 year ago
Taxes are stealing. Stealing is wrong. Eliminate taxes. End of story.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter If we could make the Defense Department self-financing and phase out entitlement programs, then what is left of the federal government costs could be covered by voluntary user fees. For starters, the Defense Department could sell training programs on leadership. With the right imagination, they could eventually raise the $700 billion or so that they spend annually.
nrkgalt 11 months ago
@nrkgalt no nuclear armed country has ever been invaded, so any military spending is probably unnecessary. The rest of government spending can be decentralized to states, then to local governments, then made voluntarily entirely, or at least so in as if you don't pay the "taxes" to your community, the worst they can do is cut your services and ostracize you. People can vote with their feet if nothing else, and you have alot more say in 1 vote out of a hundred then in a 1 vote out of 300 million.
Houshalter 11 months ago
@Houshalter I would say that the infiltration of the 9/11 hijackers into the US was an invasion. So we do need to spend on defense. It certainly can be done more efficiently than it is being done now. Making the military self financing and phasing out programs like Social Security and Medicare will allow taxes to be phased out also and then what remains of federal governments costs can be covered by user fees.
nrkgalt 11 months ago
@nrkgalt it was a terrorist attack, not an invasion. It's no where near comparable to something like Pearl Harbor or any actual military force threatening the population, and certainly doesn't deserve the same amount of funding to fight.
Houshalter 11 months ago
@Houshalter Pearl Harbor did not fit the classical definition of an invasion either, as the Japanese did not have any boots on the ground. At least some of the funding for the war can be paid for by assets seized from the enemy. The rest can be financed the way I described above.
nrkgalt 11 months ago
@nrkgalt reparations and seized assets barely make up for the cost of a war, and generally you are not stealing it from the defeated government, but it's helpless subjects. War profiteering and Imperialist stuff in general can also lead to some very dangerous incentive structures.
Houshalter 11 months ago
The FLAT tax:
• makes UNprofitable small firms / farmers pay the tax
• proponents implicitly support big gov't by disguising even more of the overall tax burden
• makes everyone a taxpayer and collector (FairTax exempts 115 million filers [2000 figure] from IRS clutches)
• is regressive (FairTax enables everyone to keep full paycheck).
• taxes exports and relieves imports from tax
• retains the entire income tax apparatus (erodes with the words, “tax bill")
travllrs 1 year ago
The problem with relying on any one tax is that it is quickly circumvented by clever tax dodgers.
Say what you will about an assortment of smaller taxes, they usually apply to most of us at least some of the time. As long as no single tax is huge, most people will not try especially hard to avoid all of them.
SSArcher11 1 year ago
The problem with the Flat Tax is that you would raise taxes on Middle Class people who can't afford it. And then cut taxes on High Earners who don't need it. So the Flat Tax would be Regressive.
FRSFreeStateES 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Online Naughty women dating site here mworld5.info
iimogenyu 1 year ago
Fair Tax has been thoroughly researched at a cost of over 22 million dollars and it would be tremendously beneficial to America and all citizens. Detailed information is available at Fair Tax.Org. Every citizen should visit this website.
jwnobles1 1 year ago
With a flat income tax, you still have to tell the government how much money you make, and the government still needs to bureaucracy to keep track of all that. a national sales tax with exemptions for food, essential personal care items, and second hand items would insulate the poor form the tax and eliminate the need for a large bureaucracy. Each state would define what constitutes food and other exempted items within its borders.
forexrobots212 1 year ago
I got a really Radical idea, let's just get rid of all the Taxes in this country and keep printing more money, and the FED can go on a Quantitative Easing spree with it's printing press!
XionXXXX 1 year ago
The government should earn its revenue through issuing its own currency then lending it to borrowers. the interest is used to pay for a bare bones government. Every other service is provided by the free market. Welfare for the poor and unable are provided by charity, and since people who are untaxed and free are prosperous can afford to be very generous.
municipal governments would be responsible to raise money locally for police fire etc, in what means they see fit. Maybe a flat sales tax.
rustyscrapper 1 year ago
I would like sales tax better. That will take care of under the table money and illegally earned money.
AntiRacismAndHateCom 1 year ago
Excellent brief explanation. Exactly why I don't support the flat tax; it's still an income tax. Income tax started out flat. Mm-hmm, and look what happened. The only way to keep a flat tax flat is to abolish the 16th amendment and the IRS.
ziglet53 1 year ago
This is a great plan, but only if you're rich. I'm not rich. Let's be clear about something here. His implication that the rich contribute more to American prosperity is false. It is the rich shipping jobs overseas. It is the rich encouraging illegal immigration to drive down wages of working people. Look at the facts. Unless you're wealthy, you've been stagnating or getting poorer for many years now. Only the wealthiest Americans have been doing better. Still, they want more.
bakkie37 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The FairTax will raise the standard of living for all current tax payers. The amount we each pay will DROP because MORE people will be paying the total revenue neutral amount, including illegals and criminals. Also, prices will likely drop because companies will no longer need to pay tax experts and lawyers. This "compliance cost" right now amounts to $900 per person on average. Granted, SOME? people will benefit more than others, but there will be no loosers with the FairTax.
urgener 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Alan Greenspan (former Federal Reserve Chairman) now works for John Paulson's fund. Guess what John Paulson's fund's BIGGEST position is right now? GOLD. . Don't say you weren't told. Protect your families wealth. Visit: goldsave.co/
Efficacious24 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
single bridals here naneedj.info
janakisaman 1 year ago
I would pay more in taxes and I love the fair tax all people will pay the tax
MFP1520 1 year ago
@MFP1520 No one will ever pay this tax, moron. ITs a fucking FARCE. Got that? Its own leaders know its a farce. In their fine print, they pretend they will tax every city government, every state government, to collect MOST of federal government revenue.
Did you know that? Fuck no you didn't know that, cause you are too stupid to read the book and spot the bullshit. Read the Fairtax Book, for example, page 148, and Fairtax The Truth Book page 138. And use your fucking brain this time.
MarkDouglasC 1 year ago
I don't think I want to live in any of those countries he labeled as "moved to flat tax" iceland's economy collapsed more than any other european countries, Jamaica? Czech Republic? Bulgaria? are you kidding me Bulgaria is more corrupt than we are, the mafia king of Bulgaria is better known than the President... Iraq? get out of here, I thought I was going to watch something as to why one would work... what a clown
MrMvt333 1 year ago
Both are better, but the problem with the Fair tax is that it wontwork, let's plug in some real world scenerios...say you own a used car lot and have a buyer for a 5k car, you tell him there is a "sale" today, the car is 500.00 but you must leave a 4500 tip, he pays cash, car is writtenup for 500 and tax is paid on that.
Buyer saves big on tax, seller gets his price for the car, government gets next to no money.....great idea but it wont work
carzamerica1 1 year ago
If you say that both are good, then they will probably implement both!
XCritonX 1 year ago
for the irs .....fuck you
fight4yourfreedom1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I prefer the sales. I'm tired of Big Brother raping me in my paycheck before raping me in my wallet. I'd like to get -all- of my money before deciding what to do with it. Sick of it being pilfered on payday, then pilfered at the register, only to be misspent on things the American people don't benefit from.
The next step after tax reform is to destroy the Federal Reserve and go back to a GOLD STANDARD. As it is, paper money backs paper money backs paper money. :(
Myxril 1 year ago
Comment removed
Myxril 1 year ago
Comment removed
Myxril 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Fair Tax is the dumbest tax we could possibly have. If you look at the history of sales taxes:
Charles I, 1642, deposed, decapitated
James II, 1688, deposed, Stuarts terminated
George III, lost colonies
Louis XVI, 1789-93, guillotined
Jefferson Davis, 1861-65, funds CSA with sales tax, CSA goes bankrupt
Czar Nicholas II, cannot finance war from sales taxes, shot, Romanov's done
India 1947, sales tax on salt, British gone
South Vietnam 1960-65, doubled sales tax, landowners untaxed - VC win
land4citizens 1 year ago
The National Sales Tax is better for the simple reason that illegal immigrants would no longer be getting a free ride, even money earned under the table or illegally would be subject to tax when spend. Mafiosos and money launderers would be paying their fair share when the money is spent.
Fair tax all the way!
ContrarianExpatriate 1 year ago 16
@ContrarianExpatriate who the heck would spend money in the US if it was laundered? if I had 5 billion, the last place where i'd spend it would be in a place with a NST or VAT.
delyshBB 1 year ago
@ContrarianExpatriate They need a free ride out of the country.
KenMacMillan 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It doesn't matter what kind of tax they give us, they will find a way to game the system into their advantage. The best thing to do is to remove all federal taxes completely & assign them a flat percentage paid by each state per quarter. If you want to cut federal spending, make the states pay for it directly. The flat tax is the best system but lets limit to a state level. It's about time the IRS gets divided by zero.
KenMacMillan 1 year ago
@ContrarianExpatriate - Another good reason to have the FairTax. Right now, money from prostitution, drugs, gambling, etc. does not get entered onto a 1040 form and is never taxed. You're SUPPOSED to, but since a 1040 can be used against you in court, what kind of criminal would claim that? Now, let's enact the FairTax! Some mafioso buys a new car, we get the tax. He buys or builds a house, we get the tax. He buys a boat, we get the tax. The FairTax will now tax illegal income.
B17Boy 8 months ago
@B17Boy Any alleged increase from this "taxing of criminals" is negated by grey and black markets that would spring up. PS-- the "mafioso" would buy a "used" (have fun defining that) car (or a new car with "used" paperwork) and pay no tax. Or a villa in the Bahamas... and pay no tax. Or etc., etc., etc. . This crazy tax would greatly benefit the wealthy and rich "mafiosos"-- data at the supporters own site shows that the midclasses would pay more taxes and the rich would pay less taxes under it.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie - Wrong again! The term "used" is already defined by the gov't. Strike one. If "used car" paperwork is used then two or more people have to conspire. Easy enough for the police to check. New cars coming into the lot vs. new going out. Strike two. They already buy villas in the Bahamas or elsewhere. What if they want to buy a winter place in Vail, CO? Ooops! Gotta pay that tax! Strike three! The only lie here is your name. A more true name would be SocialismisaLie.
B17Boy 8 months ago
@B17Boy And again you fall into the trap-- all that paperwork to keep track of, tons of new work keeping track of whether everything (not just cars-- TVS, refrigerators, steroes, computers, et cetera--OOPS) sold is new or used? Defeats any claim that their would be less "compliance cost" (a claim that has been repeatedly debunked anyway). This is one of many reasons why this idiotic tax will never happen in the USA. The first (which it seems you conceded) is that it hammers the midclasses.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@B17Boy Let's look carefully at real estate sales. ALL home and real estate sales in the USA done through a mortgage would likely be taxed as new-- the mortgage is "new". BUt what about pre-owned houses paid for in cash? If taxed-- the wealthy will be incentivized to buy in other countries rather than here (sorry, Vail, congrats, Banff). If NOT taxed-- well then the wealthy will just buy up real estate, just as they will with stocks (not taxed).
Once again, the middleclasses are screwed.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie - The only lie is you. If the house is used, that is, it is not new, the tax does not apply. Same for cars, brooms, DVD players, end tables, garden hoses, pens, paper, etc. What part of "new items at the retail level" don't you get? Also, why do you hate the wealthy? Because you are not? Why don't you take your socialist lies about how the wealthy are bad with you on your way to North Korea. You can learn first hand how wonderful socialism is.
B17Boy 8 months ago
@B17Boy Okay, and so we assume "used" real estate is not taxed-- then the wealthy buy up all real estate (tax free) and rent it to the middles (who then have to pay 30% tax on rent).
And no, the prebate only covers "necessities" at a poor to lower mid level. Here is a direct quote from their "research": "If we group taxpayers by income per capita, the bottom five deciles lose under the FairTax."
Why do you hate the middle classes (about 80% of the nation)?
"Fair" Tax aka NASTI = fail
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@ContrarianExpatriate Grey and black markets would spring up and negate any increase from taxing "mafiosos" and illegals. And middleclass people would pay more in taxes than now and have less quality of life while the wealthy paid less in taxes and saw a huge increase in their inc /quality of life-- this is from the data at the site of SUPPORTERS of the "Fair" Tax aka NAtiona Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NASTI".
PS- money launderers wouldn't pay a dime, they wouldn't need to "launder" any more.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie - You don't get it, do you? It has NOTHING to do with the MONEY. The money is a straw argument. The taxes will either be forcibly extracted by a gestapo-esque agency enforcing a socialist income tax (under the guise of "voluntary compliance" -- whatever the hell that is) or they will be paid in a true voluntary, free, and fair system. So stop harping about something we care nothing about. All we want is to end the socialist lie.
B17Boy 8 months ago
@B17Boy No, you don't get it-- there is nothing "voluntary" or "free" or "fair" about massively raising taxes on the midclasses for the food, medical care, roof-over-their-heads, clothing, gasoline , utilities, etc. that they need to live simple middle class lives -- raising mids taxes while lowering the already low taxes of the rich who already have a quality of life beyond what most middles will ever see. Keep dreaming about your feudalistic plutocracy, maybe you can resurrect Louis XVI too.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie - No, YOU still don't get it. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE TAXES! We're going to have to pay taxes regardless. It's about GETTING RID OF A SOCIALIST INCOME TAX AND THE NAZI-ESQUE TACTICS USED TO ENFORCE IT! And yes, it is voluntary, free, and fair. Voluntary because you pay when you buy new retail goods. Free because it's your choice to buy and therefore to pay. Fair because everyone pays the same rate. No matter how much you lie about it, the intelligent people will see through you.
B17Boy 8 months ago
@B17Boy Wake up, is NOT just on retail goods-- it taxes food, rent,utilities, legal fees, medical fees--nearly EVERYTHING, at 30%exc sales tax. So unless you want to live naked in a Unabomber shack in the woods eating dandelion soup and hoping you can catch a fish to eat, hoping you don't get sick, and not working, you have no choice. The fairest tax is and always will be an income tax (and a decently progressive one), because the more you make the more you have reaped benefits from society.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie - Yes, it taxes food because those are NEW ITEMS AT THE RETAIL LEVEL. It taxes all that BUT you get the Prebate to cover food, utilities, etc. (necessities). Have you even read the book?
So, you would rather have a socialist income tax that is claimed by it's proponents to be "voluntary" but is enforced as mandatory by a Gestapo-esque IRS with a horrendous history of constitutional and civil rights violations? Are you mad? There is NOTHING fair about socialism.
B17Boy 8 months ago
@B17Boy TRhe book is full of proven falsehoods-- have you READ THEIR OWN SELF-TOUTED "RESEARCH"/ DATA? Of course you haven't. IF you had you would realize how you have been fooled by Boortz and gang. Here's another hint for you-- sales taxes/ VATs are favorites in socialistic nations. Taxes are not voluntary-- you have the choice to live in this nation or somewhere else, that is thge choice. Your bizarre idea that taxes should be voluntary shows a lack of understanding of what taxes are.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
Actually the sales tax or "fairtax" wouldn't add a tax burden on the poor because of the prebate: an automatic monthly refund of the portion of the sales tax paid for the basic necessities. For a family of four it could be as much as $600 a month on top of their paycheck which they would also pay no taxes on. Even if they paid no income tax, they are still paying social security and medicare (7.5 % of income) So the current system is actually placing a heavier burden on the poor than a fairtax.
theralphienator 1 year ago 2
I agree with this video. I would prefer a sales tax or a flat income tax over what we have now. The problems with both are the following. If you have an income tax, the government still "owns" your income. If you have a sales tax, you add a tax burden on the poor. The fair tax is way too complicated. A sales tax would have to be flat, not progressive, and not start entitlements. Then the question arises. What do you tax? Since we need a gov't, technically we should all pay taxes.
daconqueror101 1 year ago
I like this idea. I would reverse the order, and pursue a national sales tax that must be contingent on a full repeal of the income tax. Then you have the legal mechanism in place so that opponents can't say "we won't have any taxes."
Then you go full force on repealing the income tax. The reasons for which they are using this tax are unconstitutional to begin with.
wakingcrow 1 year ago
Go for the national sales tax and remove income tax. It would do so much to to help many people in this country and pay down debt as well as encourage investment and savings.
surfnorthwest1 1 year ago
Woohooo.....no taxes on unearned income!
Let's keep making the rich richer and the poor poorer guys...its really working well so far.
ericman123 1 year ago
@ericman123 Actually it does work, but it doesnt make poor poorer. Here in Texas there is no income tax and no taxes that burden businesses/rich people and so theyre able to invest in human capital (create jobs). In 2008, Texas had a better job growth rate than all the other 49 states combined. So, a once poor person will now have a job with a healthy income
jj69camaro 1 year ago 27
@jj69camaro your idiot little sales tax in Texas is like comparing a pile of shit to a rocket. Your sales tax has nothing fucking to do with Fairtax.
For example, you fucking moron, your Texas sales tax does not have every city in Texas paying 23% of its spending to Austin, does it retard? No, it doesnt. Dallas and every other city would say fuck you.
But under Farce Tax, every CITY, every STATE government has to pay massive taxes.
Got that yet you stupid fuck?
MarkDouglasC 1 year ago
What about the taxes on things i buy? Like cigarettes, yummy junk food, booze, soda, ect. I dont want the taxes on things I buy to go up out of control! The tax on cigarettes in Texas is over a dollar! Thats higher than so many other states. I hate sin taxes! How do you fix that? This only show the income tax and not all the other taxes. What do you think?
KripDrip 1 year ago
@jj69camaro Actually Texas is in very bad trouble economically. They are almost bankrupt and take in more federal aid per capita then all the rest of the states. It is a scam!
zero0ohm 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jj69camaro Actually Texas is in very bad trouble economically. They are almost bankrupt and take in more federal aid per capita then all the rest of the states. It is a scam!
zero0ohm 1 year ago
@jj69camaro You are confusing income taxes with corporate taxes. Businesses go to Texas because they can pay less on their profits, not because employees don't pay a state income tax-- and state income tax rates do not hurt the middle class employees in most states as much as the high sales taxes do. Sales tax=tax on poor and middles.
PS-- Texas job growth hinges some on increasing gas prices.
PPS-- Texas' unemp. rate did not decrease from Feb2010 to Feb2011-- while it did in 43 other states.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@jj69camaro PPPS -- Texas government has a huge budget deficit crisis (as bad as California's), and is cutting services for the poor and middleclasses.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie - So that means they're having to cut services that were a bad idea in the first place? You bet! Probably instituted by socialists like yourself. Now, that crap is killing them. If those services hadn't been there, there wouldn't be a deficit. Cities here in CA have stupid services like giving clean needles to junkies. The only health issues would be among junkies. So just cut the useless shit, instead of cutting everything by 10% or so. Let's start by abolishing socialism.
B17Boy 8 months ago
@B17Boy I guess you don't realize that paying for inexpensive services like giving addicts clean needles (and sometimes methadone to try and help them work toward ending their addiction) is immensely cheaper than the medical costs, costs which we will all end up paying, if they get AIDS. Typical short-sighted greedy rightwinger, attacking the services YOU don't like (usually the ones that help all of society in the long run) without realizing how they beneift us all.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
I would prefer a consumption tax. Prohibit, in the Constitution, graduated (progressive) taxes unless in time of War, and one big enough to suspend habeus corpus, then grant Congress the right to flat VAT or flat income tax, with any exception to the flatness requiring a 2/3 majority in Congress.
Pretty much the only things popular enough to break the 2/3 majority would be food, water, shelter, medicine and education. Those could be taxed at 1/4 rate.
somercet1 1 year ago
I prefer NO TAX!!!
BckWoo 1 year ago 2
Fairtax is a silly farce -- it's own leaders refuse to have hearings about it under oath.
Since the Fairtax is based on a massive new tax on government (that's their biggest source of revenue - a tax on government) it's just BS. And the leaders KNOW it's BS.
They hid this massive tax on government in their fine print -- but that's how their "math" adds up.
In other words -- their math is insane, and they know it.
DontTrustTaxCons 1 year ago
Look Mark. you are not convincing anyone here. Your a sad little man with terrible math skills and no life. I'd say go get laid but who ever got you on the registered sex offenders list would probably think it was a bad idea. anyone who actually cared enough to set you straight is buried three pages back in your spam.
laudanum4u 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
On problem of both the flat income tax and the progressive income tax is that they encourage consumption of imports. a fine against productivity exports jobs.
The only person that pays the cost of any tax including the "flat tax" is the consumer. if no one consumes your product or service you have no income to pay tax on.
The FairTax puts "fair trade" into "free trade".
dtvgmedia 1 year ago
I do like the idea of taxing comsumption rather than productivity but there is almost no chance that the Fair Tax will ever become law. A flat tax is also far less complicated to impliment and administer and is ultimately more 'fair' in my view. Reform is so very needed in our tax code and I will listen to any sincere attempts to make it more fair and efficient and less onerous. If a serious policital leader wants to champion this, they'll have my full and enthusiastic support.
SW34R3NG3N 1 year ago 2
Look dumb fuck -- have fairtax lunatics list every city in US -- with the amount of taxes those cities would have to pay.
You "researched" all this right? Sure!! Government is taxed right? SO show us the fucking list..
Let fairtax list every state -- and show how much tax they would have to pay.
Got that dumb fuck -- go on show how much each city and state will have to pay.
Otherwise dumb fuck, you are just continuing to hide this shit insane "tax on government"
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
Sales tax is better because a sales tax is unavoidable. There are so many parties involved that it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to skimp on taxes.
With your flat tax, you won't pay for your illegally gotten profits (which you should and could with sales tax) and you can still work a deal with your employer to lie to the government.
Think about that!
brian12934 1 year ago
Brian think about this, idiot.
Fairtax gets MOST of its revenue from a TAX on the government. Yet they hide that in ONE sentence you dumb fuck Think real hard why they would pretend to get most of their revenue from an impossible source.
Have you figured it out yet dumb fuck?
BECAUSE IT'S BULLLL LSHIT
Have them list every city and state -- and show how much they expect each to pay in sales tax.
Think dumb fuck -- why havent they done this list already?
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
Huh? I think you're confused.
What I am saying is to get rid of all taxes and make the entire system done through sales tax.
Things that weren't before considered would be included and the sales tax would obviously increase.
You're a fool if you think I mean to just drop all taxes but sales tax and leave sales tax the way it is.
You're nuts, there's something wrong about you buddy...
brian12934 1 year ago
Brian I know what you are saying Have one huge federal sales tax.
YOu are the dumb fuck that doesnt get it retard. The Fairtax claims it will be 23% -- but they get 23% by pretending to tax the government too.
Got that retard? You missed that part of the plan idiot, cause they HIDE it in one sentence.
Their plan is to tax the GOVERNMENT and the people. They know its bullshit you dumb fuck. Its a hoax
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
I still don't understand what you are talking about...
What the fuck is Fairtax and what is their claim? What is 23%? What is taxing the government?
What is the hoax?
I don't understand, I just think you might be terribly stupid...
brian12934 1 year ago
@brian12934
Fairtax is the "plan" for a national sales tax that supposedly will magically bring in more money than we get now -- but do it by a sales tax on everything.
On cities, on medicare, on rent, on EVERYTHING.
But no prices will go up. YOu somehow pay 1.00 for a loaf of bread now, and will pay same 1.00 for bread then. But all your taxes will be in that 1.00.
Its a preposterous fucking hoax- farce.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
South:
Well you're a dumbass because I've never even heard of that plan.
When I say sales tax, I don't think of a system that is already being tried, I mean my idea of the perfect sales tax system.
Your confusion is that you're too stupid to think there's differences in opinion!
brian12934 1 year ago
Brian -- you have never heard of the Fairtax plan? Dumb fuck - they have several NYT best selling books about it -- 100 sponsors of it (at one point) in Congress, Huckabee pushed it when he ran for president, and 600,000 volunteers (supposedly) ---
and you never HEARD of it?
It's a sales tax dumb fuck --
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
Brian your idea is of the "perfect sales tax system"??
What's your perfect idea for a magic wand to stick up your ass and create wealth, idiot?
Your "perfect sales tax system" has a problem dumb fuck ---it's called MATH.
Learn some MATH dumb fuck
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney
Well, seems like we got unlimited deficit. Let's wing it! Take away all the other taxes in the same bill at the same time and introduce a tax, slowly increasing in percentage until budget is balanced.
That is, if we still have unlimited deficit.
But realistically, one day at a time South, one day at a time!
brian12934 1 year ago
Natonal Sales Tax to be paid by everyone...citizens, non-citizens, visitors, legal and illegal - instead of the few who now pay income tax. Collected at the point of sale, like any other sales tax - by existing systems. No one exempt, no deductions, no loop holes. No withholding, so all income is disposable. More people paying so lower rate. Could be aroud 4-6%.
dharmasuu 1 year ago
It would have to be phased in so the US continues to have revenues during the transition. A harmless 1% could start it while lowering the income tax by at least twice that amount (since more people will be paying the 1%). Only don't let congress write the law. Give it to a fifth grade class to write!
dharmasuu 1 year ago
Dharmon dumb fuck - learn some math idiot. A sales tax to replace all the other taxes would have to be 90%.
Got that retard -- 90%. Let me repeat that dumb fuck --90%.
What the FUCK do you think a 90% sales tax does to sales you fucking idiot?
Pull your cock out of your dumb ass and think.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
Bullshit...it aint no 90% you fool ass mother fucker!
brian12934 1 year ago
Brian dumb fuck -- Im telling you how fucking stupid you are. There is a tax plan out there (though it's a farce) that's had 100 sponsors in Congress, repeated best selling books, 600,000 volunteers -- ect ect.
And you never HEARD of it. Yet you are some kind of informed fuck head that knows all about a national sales tax (which is what Fairtax is).
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
Brian what is the hoax of Fairtax?
Well it's all a hoax.
Just ONE example---- your city would have to pay 23-30% of whatever they spend, to the federal government. Your state too.
Of course it's totally insane -- that's why they hid it in their fine print. They sure as fuck aren't telling your city or state.
They threw together a bunch of BS and they KNOW its bs -- it's a gimmick.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney
Well shit, I still don't know what the fuck Fairtax is so why in the hell would I have to give a shit what they claim the percentage will be.
You are the only one that has EVER informed me of this 23% shit. I never knew that before you brought it up. Do you think I give a shit what the expected tax would be?
All I can say for certain is that the current tax amount must equal in the new sales tax system...
So I don't get your point, I didn't even know there was a plan...
brian12934 1 year ago
IF Fairtax really thought you could just tax the government - you fucking idiot -- they would put that on PAGE 1.
Got that retard? They wouldnt fucking hide this shit on page 148 and hope you dont fucking notice.
See that dumb fuck? They know its a fucking farce dumb fuck -- that's why they hide it.
They are not going to ever try to pass this retard -- they would be laughed off the hearing room floor. And they know it.
It's a fucking farce.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
Mark, profanity is not an argument. Therefore, your post is spam. Occasionally, the use of profanity may be justified, such as cursing something that is clearly evil, but this is not one of those times.
ajpmathwiz 1 year ago
Chapter 10 question 6 in FairTax: the Truth answers that criticism. it's not on page 1 because reference books (for the most part) start with history of a topic.
Just stop talking Mark. If anything is a farce lt's your blog, that is why it got shut down
laudanum4u 1 year ago
ajp dumb fuck -- -Laffer this up your ass. Fairtax is a HOAX dumb fuck H -O -A-X.
What part of this dont you fucking grasp? They get MOST OF THE REVENUE FROM A TAX ON THE GOVERNMENT.
Hello dumb fuck. They KNOW this is pure fucking bullshit -- because they HIDE IT.
Got that dumb fuck? They HIDE their biggest source of revenue dumb fuck.
They hide it you dumb fuck because its pure fucking BULLSHIT and they know it.
It is a fucking hoax.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
so your solution is to spam opposing viewpoints off the page? That's not the actions of a man on the winning side of the debate. That is the actions of a little boy stomping on his sisters toys because he didn't get any.
laudanum4u 1 year ago
It's not opposing viewpoints- plural- that we are suppressing. It's one troll who hides by over ten different user names (and growing) who keeps using the same profanity-landen statements (not even arguments, just baseless assertions). We can deal with honest dissent or honest questions; trolling and profanity are spam.
ajpmathwiz 1 year ago
The government can't pay itself a t ax dumb fuck - and it wont. California will never pay this tax, dumb fuck. Nor will every city in CA, nor will ever county.
Got that retard?
Fairtax pretends all this money will come rolling in -- that's how their math "adds up"
So guess what dumb fuck - their math doesnt fucking add up.
They know it wont, dumb fuck. It's a hoax, a farce, it's pure fucking bulllll shit. They arent trying to pass their own farce, idiot.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
Well, Marc got a new nickname. Marc, why don't you explain why the government is already pretending to pay itself tax revenue (by imposing income taxes on government employees and contractors)? That's what the embedded taxes are as applied to government goods and services- the government paying itself taxes.
ajpmathwiz 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Fairtax is a farce --- its just bullshit and the leaders know it. They aren't trying to pass it.
Just ONE example -- it pretends it will just tax ALL government spending. Any government agency or level that spends -- medicare, pentagon, highway construction, whatever -- has to pay 23% of that into the federal government.
It's fucking insane shit. And they know it .
They had to pretend that to make their "math" work.
Obviously their math doesnt work -- and they know it.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
WhatsUp SouthernDriedCunny, you stopped using "dumb fuck" to explain everything. Get off the tube you nutjob.
ItNice26 1 year ago
Only to you Mark. Sometimes the lone voice of reason really is. the other 99.9% of the time it's just some guy off his meds.
Ch 10 question 6 FairTax: the truth explains the government paying self argument.
Medical costs drop about 5%, even after the FT. so there goes your cancer victim card.
The prebate covers rent, gas, and utilities taxes with a bunch to spare.
Me and all the other FT leaders (You can't seem to name) are pushing for hearings.
Now start cursing some more. It helps
laudanum4u 1 year ago
Sources - dumb fuck - look at their own videos idiot. Their OWN fucking shit. No taxes on capital gains, no taxes on leverage buy outs, no taxes on credit swaps ---- pretty much amounts to ONLY taxes on work.
If you want a flat tax dumb fuck -- have a flat tax on all income. What the fuck is the matter with you? They call it "flat" tax but want exceptions to all their favorite income. So call it what it is, ZERO taz on their income - all the taxes paid by someone else.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
So what are you saying? No sources? other then 148 of the FT book which explains why the government should continue to pay taxes, and your own opinionated blog, you've got nothing.
(sigh)
Anyone still paying attention to this inane banter. go ahead and read his "source" in fact read that chapter for some context. Hell the book was a best seller and well written if a bit right leaning. try it out. make your own decision.
laudanum4u 1 year ago
Sources Mark, Sources
Mrscissorhands25 1 year ago
Watch what happens, you fucking idiots, when you say "Okay lets tax all income alike".
CATO NEWT FORBES would shit their pants at a real Flat tax. That's the opposite of what they want. They want no fucking part of an actual across the board flat tax.
They are trying, you dumb fuck, to make their income untaxed completely, then just call a "flat tax"
Do you fucking grasp their con yet?
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
so in other words:
"Blah, Blah, dumb fuck, blah, I don't have an sources. blah, idiot."
Geez mark. Do you suck you dad's cock with that mouth?
laudanum4u 1 year ago
YES Fairtax is fairy tale of "taxing the government'
Flat tax? That''s better - BUT --the devil is in the details. Every fucking tax plan put out by people like CATO or FAIRTAX is pile of shit , dressed up like a meal.
Flat tax on WHAT income you fucking idiot? All income? Just income from work?
CATO, the GOP, Newt, all want to put it ALL on people who WORK for it -- and have ZERO tax on their shit.
In other words its fucking con game. Flat tax on ALL income makes sense.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
I like the fair tax. What are we waiting for!?
9pt9 1 year ago 12
9pt9 -- you are waiting for bullshit.
Fairtax leaders know it's a fucking hoax -- a farce. Sure it sounds great dumb ass, until you look at the fine print. Fucking moron -- go look at it.
No one will vote for this shit fool - you would shit your pants. They can't fucking tax the government you idiot -- but that's what their math pretends to do, idiot.
It's fucking make believe shit -- they are sellilng you pie in the sky fucking nonsense. Ain't nobody trying to pass thiis shit.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
The idea is good. It just needs to be refined. Get rid of the IRS!
9pt9 1 year ago
9pt9 -- no dumb fuck -- its not a good idea. Its literally a hoax. Its fucking Santa Claus, idiot.
They do NOT have any research -- go reach what they call "research" Its a fucking joke.
It's all nonsense -total nonsense. You can not really fucking tax the government moron. Its FUCKING BULLSHIT.
And they know its fucking bullshit. Got that retard? It's a fucking hoax. They are not trying to pass it - they nor were going to try. Look at the details dumb fuck -- its bogus shit.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
Tax the govt? I'm just saying a flat tax across the board would be way better and fair than income tax. Don't pop a blood vessel
9pt9 1 year ago 2
@9pt9 Waiting for 2012.
XCritonX 1 year ago
@XCritonX Are there any potential candidates that support it?
9pt9 1 year ago
@9pt9 The fair tax wont work, why because sellers will write up the sale for far less than the actual cost and get the rest as a "tip" say you sell a 5k car, tell the buyer it is today only 500 plus a 4500 tip, tax is paid on the 500, not 5k, great idea, but it wont work
carzamerica1 1 year ago
@carzamerica1 thats a good point. But there could be safetys implemented to assure that won't happen. Its the best idea ever.
9pt9 1 year ago
@9pt9 I dont see anyway in the world anything could be implemented to stop somebody from selling a 5k car for 500.00.
or 3k of furniture for 300.00 and so on.
also a fair tax system would encourage LOTS of trading and bartering, again no tax paid to government, I am all in favor of a better and different tax system, but you have to think real world scenerios.
Actually the fair tax system would b