Let's Talk About Race: With Baratunde and Cenk (Part 1)

[fortwashingtonzu]

What is missing in this country is an understanding of CLASS. Everyone acknowledges race, whether they're ignorant, sensitive, informed, racist etc... No one even thinks about class and money, let alone talks about it. The prison, health care, housing systems are horribly unjust in their own right and always will be, independently of any racism. Racism is awful, but at least people do talk about it - mention class privilege in and of itself and you're dismissed as a communist.

[ben2point0]

Thank you for this video, I did not feel the original MSNBC airtime was sufficient. Props

[JeffreyEdward19]

The real reason behind all the misfortunes of blacks is their IQ. If you look at the races and their IQ levels and you will see a trend in success. Jews are top, then Asians, then whites, then mexicans, then last is black. Grow thick skins, realize you don't have the mental capacity as other races and that's why you do not get good jobs or have to resort to crimes, hence the number of blacks in jail.

[ccones]

this is the most ignorant bs i´ve read in a long time. if it wouldnt be so sad i´d say ---> lol.

[JeffreyEdward19]

What so the tests lie? Oh yeah Africa is the leading country in technology and healthcare, right? Right. Sorry man I've accepted that blacks are more athletic and have bigger dicks. Why don't you accept that whites and asians have higher IQ's? Oh yeah I forgot everyone is created equal.

[ObamaTheRealLoser]

haaaa that was a good one. 3000 whites die in two Jew towers, then another 6000 go to die in the middle east, fighting the Jews enemy. 10,000 more come home from Iraq only to commit suicide. Looking at your race, who's really the dumb asses? whites suck at life. the TV i.e the Matrix just portrays it to be the opposite :)

[buttlord123]

I hate to say it, but you asked for it, the black race is the biggest failure on the planet!!, you disrespectful, ungrateful piece of worthless shit...

Your too pig shit dumb to realize this (and thats typical) but you say were fighting the Jew's enemies? Did you know they hate us all? the whole of the western free world and society? Something blacks would have never been a part of if it wasnt for white people...So enjoy the life and freedoms that we have provided.

[ObamaTheRealLoser]

haha you really believe this world is a better place now that we have things like a half million dollar house or a German sports car? You really do! This is why the world hates whites. Can't argue that fact. Like I said 3000 whites were killed, not blacks. I'm gonna send you a link to show you what a beheaded (white) marine looks like. You get this wherever you go. We don't. As far as me & my friends, I'm good. Got a house, car and $ in my pocket. What happens on TV is up to you to believe.

[ObamaTheRealLoser]

...and one more thing, if you hate blacks so much then wtf are you on the net pretending to be one? Typical white guy-just weird. Next thing I know your gonna be asking me to fuck your wife while you jack off and video tape it. Yeah you all sure are a blessing :)

[buttlord123]

lol who ever pretended to be black? I never did...your just a hateful, stupid ass.. You think your smart and that's the funny thing....You sound like a confused angry 9 yr old kid that doesnt understand the world he lives in..

We designed the house you live in, we designed the city you live in, we invented the car ur mom drives you around in lol, we invented the computer your looking into, and the TV you watch etc etc....the list goes on and on..

Just remember what language your speaking.

[buttlord123]

oh yeah I never said I hated black people...I just hate the dumb as pigg shit angry black twats like yourself...There is a difference.

By the way your comments are so hypocritical and retarded I dont know where to begin.

[ObamaTheRealLoser]

Please, don't make me go into black inventors. Just because you don't know about something doesn't mean it never happened. I don't hate whites. I guess you don't remember me or I would think you do. You said something about "being black and having a large penis". Remember that? You said it. Like I said. The TV isn't real. Sadly many believe it is though. Life is one big play with characters. I know what role I play. You don't. Very few whites do. I'm out.

Ps this started with jeff, not me

[ObamaTheRealLoser]

just as long as it's understood, brah

[buttlord123]

your another brainless twat on youtube..Its understood, nigga

[eirefrance]

You say a white person's defensiveness isn't your highest priority. Well, consider that person's perspective. He (lets say he for this case) doesn't 'see' the racism in his life because the benefits come in a negative form. The cops don't stop him for no reason, but thats because he's always been a law-abiding citizen. He gets through the job interview, buts that because he's spent years working hard to get where he is. He doesn't get turned down for loans, but he's spent years building

[eirefrance]

his credit. He takes no part in active, positive racism. Regardless of whether or not his views come from ignorance, he almost certainly isn't going to make his highest priority the harms of racism. Thats what was so great about Obama's speech last year. He showed that he understood both POV. We should call out real-life racism, but how we call it out is just as important. The Youtuber Illdoc1 has a great video on how racism should be called out. Well worth checking out.

[grlblu73]

This was excellent; mad props to you and Cenk; let's keep the dialogue going :)

[yuhavinit1]

call me

[yuhavinit1]

well, you know all outspoken blacks have been assainated, what's the chance in 2009

[yuhavinit1]

goog idea, but not funny. i'd love to do a vid. tried but break out in tears. the ones i already did, my husband hates. ha, i love him

[JM111787]

We need to look at how people of visible minorities circulate race in there own communities and how racism is further aggravated by a minorities perceives their own races and how other minorities uses racism against other minorities. Until that self-hatred is addressed, it will make it harder for whites and minorities of have a fruitful discussion of racism.

[pcarlton3]

I like Cenk point of view even though as an African American you get tired of being the one who conforming to what whites think. I think we cant get them to have an honest dialougue when we come straight out and call them racist. I understand your point and it is well taken but I think the best way to handle it is Cenk's way.

[fatherhurley]

Right on brother! Institutional racism is the real issue. An offical can perpetuate institutional racism without actually being racist themselves. This is an important point to make. Like Baratunde said getting caught up in what "white person x thinks about person of color y" is missing the big picture. I think this will turn out to be a great dialogue. Peace.

[ArtemisMS]

I would like for you guys to address the fact that not all white people are the same, either.

Not all white people have that gut reaction: "I'm not racist, I voted for Obama, I have nothing to do with this, everything's fine!"

Some people (like me) were appalled by the cartoon, were very angry, & recognized it as racist.

Since we're talking about being counterproductive (like Cenk saying it's counterproductive to label ppl racist), I think it may be counterproductive to lump people in groups.

[ArtemisMS]

Yuck, I don't want to seem like I'm defending white people lol (I'm blushing now.) And I know you're not concerned with hurting white people's feelings. But it's just a thought I had.

[buckamoona]

nice poster man

[BakaGaijin76]

This story (and subsequent posts on youtube) has made it infuriatingly clear that people of color can say whatever they want about white people. White people are expected to bow their heads and show contrition, regardless of history. I know whites who moved to America in the 70's and are lectured by people of color about slavery and institutional racism! People of color are blind to their own blatant racism. I played along for the first 30-some years of my life but now I'm done.

[Mahoivlich]

1000 monkeys typing on 1000 typewriters....that was the joke. the monkey represents the bill not the president.

[krackjak22]

both cenk and baratunde have great points, and both are necessary:

1. call out racism when you see it. yes, that cartoon was racist. (baratunde's point).

2. dont call the people who dont understand how it was racist...racists. start by saying, "its ok if u dont understand. let me buy u a beer, lets talk about it". (cenk's point).

both points are necessary. call out racism, and talk about it without throwing the R-word around.

[820423]

That cartoon was not about race, as in the average black guy on the street.

It was against Obama.

A political attack hidden in a symbolic satire that uses race as the catalyst.

Next time it will be something else.

This cartoon has already done its job.

After 50 new ones and one single honest mistake by monkeyboy Obama... you will think MORE less of him than you would without the symbolic mindtricks.

The language of the puppetmasters.

[820423]

Im dont care much about when people get offended, because most of the time its over stupid shit like "Woaah! The Swedish compasses dont point towards Mecka! Insult!"

But when something involves symbolism, as in this case, its is an extremely potent way to project an opinion to an audience.

They will laugh and wave it off as satire, but your mind never forgets. It sticks.

All symbolism should be scrutinized and exposed, because they steal your very opinion from you and you dont know it.

[cg66079]

I am a loyal part of the TYT Army, so I may be biased, but:

I think you are trying to build a house before setting the foundation. If you try to start a conversation on such a sensitive subject without setting the groundwork/guidelines for the conversation the conversation is going to do exactly what it has done in the past, polarize and breakdown.

[cg66079]

White people walk around on eggshells about racism and as long as that is true you can't have an open dialogue and the way to change this is giving people the benefit of the doubt.

Also, on the burden of changing racism. There is the idea of the "White Man's Burden" which means when white people work for the betterment of minorities it is viewed that white people don't think that minorities can help themselves, so doing the right thing is wrong and racist.

[cg66079]

Again, this problem is an issue of assumptions and perception and you know what assume spells ass (out of) u (and) me.

[fenderbass]

We vwent through this with Rodney King remember?It's all bullshit!!!!!!!!!1

[fenderbass]

the same shit over and over and over.I'm sick of the dialog.

[sachem515]

I hope you can free up some time to work with Cenk on that 10pm show.

As for this dialogue, I have no idea how to add to it. Being white, my outrage reached fatigue and burnout somewhere between 2004 and 2006 just on GWBush's actions in a few short years.

Suffering generations of oppression is beyond my experience.

[moulingalette]

Asian people were looked down on in the past, but they worked hard and now, overall, accomplish a lot of things and live very good lives.

They did not complain about "institutional racism" against them; they worked hard, accomplished a lot, and are at the point where many people even consider them on a higher level than most other people.

I am tired of all these excuses.

[rdokoye]

Nigerian Americans are actually the highest achieving minorities, not Asians. So your point is moot. Also over 60% of the entire worlds poor are Asian.

[moulingalette]

How does Nigerian Americans being the highest achieving disprove my point? In fact, if it is true, it proves my point even more because they are African...

Also, the percentage of poor in the world that are asian is a pointless statistic since they also have an extremly large population. The percentage of that particuar ethnic group would be much more relevant. And I am guessing that the percentage of their group that are poor is much less than others...

[rdokoye]

No it does not, I as a Nigeria don't see myself as dissimilar from an African American, possessing anything they do not have themselves, my point being, if Nigerian's who are genetically the same as African Americans can come to America and outperform everyone, this is evidence that issues of institutional racism, segregation, media demonisation etc... have had a detrimental effect on the psyche of many African Americans.

[rdokoye]

Well I'm humane, so I'm going to look at it from a humane perspective rather than diminishing human live down to mere numbers. In terms of raw numbers, most poor people are Asian, percentages are irrelevant.

[Panamaschild]

Being "looked down on" and being oppressed aren't the same thing. Were Asians slaves and owned by slave masters against their will in the U.S.? No. Were Asians here when Blacks couldn't be served let alone eat at the same restaurant as Whites? Where were they during these injustices? When was the last time we heard on the news about a police "mistaking" his taser for a gun and shooting an Asian dead? Can't remember? Well it just happened to a Black man a couple of months ago. Comparison...none

[BakaGaijin76]

Your lack of historical knowledge is staggering. Yes, asians were in america during segregation and even during slavery.

[cg66079]

"Being "looked down on" and being oppressed"

Asians were treated very badly when they immigrated into the US, and before the territories became states. This discrimination was focuses ing the West where they lived, but it was the Wild West so that doesn't count right. *sarcasm*

It is insane the number of local and territorial laws that were directly aimed at immigrant Asians. They were treated as second class citizens and worked basically as indentured servants to white "bosses".

[cg66079]

The same thing happened to the Irish that come over during the potato famine. The US has always been very suspicious of immigrants and people who are different even if they are white European. Much of the tension with immigrants comes from competition for employment for the unskilled and semi-skilled labor.

The racism associated with Blacks is much more complicated and rooted in American history rather than conflicts over jobs, but it doesn't mean that other groups haven't had it bad either.

[krackjak22]

very true. great point.

[jonahbu]

If you're born into a society where racism is endemic and are a member of the priviliged group (white), you will have a difficulit time noticing the subtleties with which institutionalized racism operates. It's a structural problem and structure forms our habits.

Ruth Frankenberg has shown how both, white and black children,prefer playing with white dolls, a sign that black children aspire to being white, as she claims.

I can alsorecommend reading Frantz Fanon, a writer on postcolonialism.

[moulingalette]

The real problem is that white people don't believe you that the problem is their fault.

You talk about the "inequality" in the financial, housing, education, etc. systems. White people do not disagree with you that there is inequality, they disagree about the reasons for it.

People choose how hard they are going to work and what they do with their lives. It is not white people keeping you down, it is not enough black people choosing to live better lives.

[jkesquered]

dude! hate to burst ur bubbles, but ur name ain't spelt right. it's BABATUNDE not baratunde...

[BakaGaijin76]

Neither one of these assholes are white but they have no problem going on national TV (and now youtube) to talk about what white people think and how white people are out to get everyone...go fuck yourself Thurston. Racist prick!

[thecheney]

troll

[Namari12]

I totally agree about institutional racism.

But I feel like, the reason that institutional racism is still a problem is *because* of these lingering emotional attitudes of individuals. The majority of white people, at least, I think, as a white person, aren't racist. They've moved beyond. So, keeping this dichotomy between "whites" and "blacks" seems so... 1960s.

The only way this is going to change significantly by changing base attitudes from the ground up, rather than top down. .. No?

[Lobos222]

Isnt it a little hypocritical to say, on the one hand you dont really care if you step on white peoples feelings by calling them racists, on a matter I would call debatable, but on the other hand you almost demand that white people should respect your feelings.

Its like you are saying:

"Ohh, you feel youre being called racist unjust? Well, thats "to bad". Your feelings is not my pri."

Lets flip that around.

The cartoon(eg White Monkey) was not intended racist, if you feel it was "to bad"...

[tjtube65]

Fantastic commentary here... please keep up the essential dialogue!

[rhazmel]

Very well done, Baratunde.

[8intimation8]

really liked your input and thoughts on the msnbc segment (i will look foreward to seeing you as a FREQUENT guest on the 10pm spot :)

from what i take, i see Cenk and yourself as saying; "let's SOLVE the very real and very pressing issues which are hitting African Americans, like FIXING the prison system, and the "legal" system... THEN we can worry about the stupid ignorance of racist PEOPLE.

[8intimation8]

When people who steal 50 billion dollars are walking around, while others are being sent to prisons based on institutional stupidity.things aren't working.

[plebiscite]

I believe that there is enough ambiguity regarding the intent of the cartoon to warrant not automatically accusing the cartoonist of racism.

Also I think it's important to note that a non-racist cartoonist can make a racist cartoon, he may just not realize what the unintended juxtaposition of images and concepts in the cartoon imply. So I think it's perfectly fine to examine what it is about the cartoon that you find racist, but pinning down the intent of the cartoonist can be a different issue.

[thecheney]

the conversation is about institutionalized racism and how it is perpetuated by negative imagery in the media. I don't think anyone cares whether or not ONE cartoonist is a racist. what matters here is that to the feebleminded, the cartoon image and context demeans black people which then perpetuates aforementioned insitutionalized racism. The editor should know better than to print something that lowers the status of any group, any further.

[kungensean]

Your presumption of racism should be one of your priorities. Few try to argue the disparities you mentioned in prisons, poverty, etc as being totally independent from race. But this isn't a case of the macro just being a bigger version of the micro, and the micro is what you're talking about.

Making assumptions or broad accusations about the micro level (your "white person x") is borderline irresponsible. It's that sweeping motion that gets white people on the defensive, not the dialogue.

[jarmtx]

this may notbe the right video to say this on but . . . i have a differnent take on the cartoon (even though the higher-ups in the post clarified it) i view it as a knock on the police in the first place - that the statement about finding someone else to write the stimulus is something an average police officer would say after shooting a monkey (or chimp) in the streets- kinda tongue-in-cheek to their partner-maybe im wrong but thats how i took it

[dslunlimited]

I'm more concerned about the high rate of African American children not graduating from high school and going to college. I think that is more a pernicious problem than the racists cartoon depicted in the NY Post!

[xy11xy]

I think we need to be careful what bait we choose to take..choosing strategically.

[xy11xy]

The New York Post and the right wing is laying bait..

They're provided cover for their racism by choosing a AA leader....and for a Party with so few AA supporters..every other tv surrogate is black..at least 50%.

They really are an insurgency(Taliban?) and have declared war on Obama and all he represents..including blackness.

The O team's snobbery in refusing to preempt politicking is creating a vacuum which the GOP is filling with lies and rumours.

[upabittoolate]

yo 'tunde, good shit on MSNBC. i like watching the young turks & i like watching you as well. it was very fulfilling.

[upabittoolate]

amendment. good shit BARATUNDE. i'm sorry for calling you in a familiar way. i'm inclined to understand cenk's point of view but while i don't disagree with him philosophically, it's astute that black people have towed that line long enough, in the name of 'equality'. what's more, the same white people that say "i'm not a racist" are the ones that use the n-word whenever they feel we're not "behaving".

[kungensean]

"what's more, the same white people that say "i'm not a racist" are the ones that use the n-word whenever they feel we're not "behaving"."

What a ridiculous thing to say.

[upabittoolate]

sure, it sounds ridiculous to you but you've never walked around in my body, seen life through my eyes or heard the word 'nigger' with my ears. if you think it's not a reality, ask some of your black friends. hell, you can catch some guys on youtube doing the same thing. yes, if i act unruly or unfavorable, i'm a nigger in their eyes. but if i'm 'acceptable' then i can be a black person. what's YOUR reality?

[kungensean]

I can also find people setting themselves on fire online. It doesn't mean that the practice is widespread.

Setting your youtube example aside, your comment doesn't come from observations. It comes from your own predisposition to believe that's what people are doing. It would almost be cliche of me to tell you where I've heard the word "nigger" 99.9% of the time.

[upabittoolate]

i see. my comment doesn't come from the life i've lived? you've worn my shoes. what size are they again?... oh, you can't & you haven't lived my life. that being said, you can't say "i don't believe you lived it therefore your empirical evidence is no good". also, setting aside my example is intellectually dishonest. your fire analogy is fine but it's moot to the point i'm trying to share with. yes, there are people who ignore racism. nay of them will call me a nigger because they don't agree

[rdokoye]

Personally I think it's time for Black People in the Western World to turn to Plan B which is intra dependence. Much like the Asians do, I think if we as Black People started to take care of ourselves, depended on one another for our own wellbeing etc... then it'd do wonders for our social and economical standing. We can cite the Asian community as an excellent example. Rather than going back and forth on points that White People will inevitable spend an eternity denying exists.

[upabittoolate]

my friend. i'm totally with that. it's funny that those groups have a relatively closed community but no one accuses them of segregation, being racialists or baiting. i'm also very pleased that i'm not alone in my assessment that it's very real.

[rdokoye]

Exactly, I was just thinking about that. A White Man can come out and say he prefers blue eyed blonde haired women, a Asian Man can say he prefers petite and feminine Asian Women, but if a Black Man comes out and says he prefers his 'sisters', we're immediately labelled racists and asked what's wrong with 'other' women.

[upabittoolate]

funny. they're 'allowed' but with us, everdydamnbody turns into the thought police. white women are getting booty implants, tans & collagen in order to emulate sisters but saying so is racist. some white people are indignant about UNCF or NAACP or Black Caucus but they forget that scholarships, civil rights & public seats were historically denied on the basis of race. i'm not a separatist but i'm about sweeping my own porch 1st. THEN talking about race. ain't that what everyone else does?

[upabittoolate]

i;m from chicago. with the exception of a few neighborhoods, it's very segregated. don't nobody live in chinatown but chinese, lao & taiwanese. up on peterson, there's koreans. on devon, indians. south shore is black. bridgeport is white. is that good? no, but it works, in part, because people created their own networks & augment them. ie, there's some idea of refuge. but now, how do we handle these global communities & economies & how do we tackle this race issue?