Tim Hawkins The Government Can

[Redlocokixx]

19 people is just ZZZZzzzzzzZZZZ

[christo930]

@helpportraitsandiego I don't know if this comment was tp at me or Hawkins, but I assure you that I was not motivated by Christianity to upload this video as I am an atheist and was an atheist at the time I posted it. I am a left leaning libertarian and I believe in social safety nets and appropriate regulations to protect the public at large as well as he workers. But I also think that history clearly shows that he free market has lifted more people from poverty to wealth than any other system.

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

a regulated market you mean, because well maybe you haven't been paying attention to the last 10 years or so.

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist I think you will find if you look into it that regulation wasn't the problem. For one, they didn't enforce the regulation they had which were perfectly capable of regulating the market. Second, the foundation of the problem was the low interest rates that allowed people to bid up housing prices and made things like ARMs much more attractive. They were also able to sell MBS because investors were looking for better yielding but safe instruments, because bond yields were so low.

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

yep its the consumer's fault for those banks offering such amazing loans to people they knew wouldn't be able to cover it.

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist I didn't blame the consumer, I think they were victims, at least to a degree. My point was that none of this could of happened if the fed hadn't kept rates so low for so long. The market simply responded to the incentives created by the federal reserve and the fed government. It's not so much a blame game with the consumers as it is with Washington. They have never really been able to regulate anything right in the first place.

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

so it was the government that was giving out the foolish loans? Can we actually blame the banks for making bad decisions? Is that okay?

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist No. It was the fed that made the bad loans possible, along with fannie and freddie. I am not defending the banks either. But what you are doing is analogous to blaming construction material for a house that collapsed that was built on sand. If short term rates weren't so low, none of these things could have happened. So while everyone responded to the incentives they were dealt, you have to blame the people that created the incentives to begin with. That is my point.

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

construction material is an inanimate object incapable of making intelligent decisions. Just because someone gives you a cake doesn't mean you have to eat it all in one sitting. Do you blame the liquor store for a drunk driving accident?

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist It's an analogy. People respond to incentives. Low interest rates allowed people to blow up housing prices because their monthly payments were still low. Furthermore, the low interest rates made things like ARMs possible, which further gave room to over pay. The rising prices that were caused by these things brought speculators into the mix, further driving up housing prices. There were people buying "investment" homes where the mort was higher than the rental prices!

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

and you completely missed mine. Just because something is possible, doesn't mean its a good idea. Just because interest rates are low doesn't mean its the fed's fault for the banks giving out the terrible loans. Its the bank's fault for their decisions. If you shot someone you can't blame the guy who sold you the gun, or the gun manufacturer. You pulled the trigger.

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist If the federal reserve wasn't deciding what the cost of money should be, the cost would have been too high. There are market mechanisms that would prevent this from happening in the first place. What you want to do is write regulations to solve a problem caused by gov! Does that make any sense? The market and the amount of savings available should decide what the interest rates should be, not a fed central planer.

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

how are you still blaming the fed? I thought I've made this a clear as possible. Its like you just don't understand personal responsibility for your actions.

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist If it were a personal problem, I would agree. But it isn't a personal problem. Your personal problems do not cause the entire financial system to collapse. I am not absolving the banks of any responsibility, I am saying that if we want to prevent this from happening again (albeit in a different sector), we should recognize the fed's role. Early on, when housing prices started going up, the fed should have taken dramatic action to stop it. They didn't. Look what happened.

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

it was a personal problem, of the banks, it doesn't matter if the interest rates dropped to 0%, its the bank's responsibility to act responsibly. Again you're blaming the cashier for the drunk driving accident

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist First of all, the banks are part of the fed system. Second, it wasn't banks making these bad loans, it was mortgage companies who would originate the loan where it would then be packaged with other mortgages and then sold as a package. But the real problem is the higher home prices made possible by the low monthly payments. Monthly payments are what keeps a lid on real-estate prices. Once they started going up through this mechanism, other actors came in and made it worse.

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

wait, you don't think that banks make mortgage loans? What do you think a mortgage company is? Who decides the monthly payment? The fed? No, the bank that gives out the loan. But hey just keep blaming the fed, whatever supports your preheld anti-government opinions.

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist There are mortgage originators that aren't true banks in the way you think of. Who decides the monthly payment? The fed does, to a large degree. They set the short term interest rates which have an effect on mortgages, especially ARM mortgages. There is plenty of blame to go around, I agree with that. My only point in this whole conversation was that none of it could have happened without Greenspan lowering the fed rate to 1% and keeping it there for over a year.

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

*facepalm* its clear that you just don't want to put the blame where it belongs, that you've decided that your hated third party is the culprit. Sorry in the real world the responsibility lies with the individual not the situation. Just because you have an opportunity doesn't mean its wise to take it. Just because interest rates were low and there was no oversight, doesn't mean that loaners should have make the terrible decisions they made. I'm done talking to the wall.

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist I am the one talking to a wall. You fail to realize that the banking system is part of the fed, and you refuse to look at the fed's role in it. Using your logic, it's the consumers fault. After all, just because the ARM mortgages and low payments were available doesn't mean that they should use them, right? See how that game works? I REPEATEDLY stated that there was plenty of blame to go around, but that fed policies were the driving force behind all the bad decisions.

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

do you know what the American dream is? Have you not wanted a home of your own? Don't you believe that everybody wants a home of their own? So what happens when that carrot is passed in front of people? They reach out for it. Its predatory behavior. The banks are commercial enterprises, they are not owned by the fed, the fed doesn't decide who they give loans to. Blaming the fed is just plain illogical.

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist I bought my home at the very beginning of the bubble and they tried to talk me into an ARM and the very first thing that came to my mind was "what if the rates go up?, I'll take the sure thing". I also put 20% down. I recognize the value of saving and not just satisfying every urge, but I digress. I am not so much blaming the fed as saying that it could not have happened without the fed. That is why I said there was plenty of blame to go around.

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

and every shooting wouldn't take place without the gun manufactures,

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist A more appropriate analogy would be if the US gov forced every citizen to be a gun owner.

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

the US government didn't force anybody to make any or accept any loan, sorry your analogy fails due to unwarranted bias against the government.

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist I am not anti-government, at least not to the point that you think I am. You can't get around the fact that low interest rates is what created the bubble and that if the fed hadn't had short term interest rates so low, it couldn't have happened. In a free market, the low savings rate (it even went neg in 05) would have driven interest rates higher and investors would have put money into vehicles other than mortgages. The cost of borrowing should be based on supply and demand.

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

low interest rates didn't create anything, it was the decisions of the loaners that created the bubble. I don't know why you have such a need to blame a third party. But I really don't care anymore. You've decided that the fed is to blame for the actions of others, or maybe you just believe that since interest rates were so low that it was equal to the feds forcing the loaners to make bad loans. But neither is true, I hope one day you're ready to come to terms with reality.

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist I am not assigning blame to anyone. I am simply pointing out that none of it could have happened without the low interest rates. Everyone was making bad decisions, consumers, banks, investors, flippers etc. The only blame I put out there is that the fed should have recognized the bubble early on and raised rates sooner and faster. I ask you, could consumers have driven up housing prices without the low payments made possibly by the low interest rates?

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

can a drunk driver hit a minivan on its way home from soccer practice if the bartender refused him service? Is the bartender to blame? Sorry I don't blame third parties.

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist As a matter of fact, in many parts of the US (it might be all 50 states) a bartender can be held liable for that.

So it is safe for me to assume that you think the banks are entirely responsible for the housing bubble?

[Dudeatheist]

@christo930

CAN is not the same as IS. The banks are responsible for supplying loans to people who got lured in by the siren's call of home ownership, but could not afford an increase to their monthly payments. It was their predatory business practices and lack of foresight. If they simply didn't offer the loans to questionable people then there wouldn't have been a problem. Interest rates were low to spark the economy, to get people who could afford the loans to take them out.

[christo930]

@Dudeatheist So you don't think the CRA or the GSEs had anything to do with the lowering of the loan standards? You also have to remember that investors around the world were looking for higher returns on very safe instruments and they couldn't get them in the bond market because of the feds target rate was so low. So they wanted mortgages and the market supplied them by lowering the creditworthiness even more. I agree with you that there was a lot of bad behavior in the entire housing industry.

[derman077]

Who does he think printed the money in the first place ?

[christo930]

@derman077 I don't understand what you are trying to say. If you are saying that our founding fathers started with the money printing, I suggest you read the constitution and read history.

[Urbanledgend12]

hahaha. This is so funny :D I love Tim Hawkins :D lol hes awesome!

[Yaymeproducer]

thewhiterose, get real. u r such a failure, because TIM HAWKINS IS AWESOME!!!!

o yeah and im a jew ^.^

[MsAwesomeMickey]

i love him... hes the best!!!!

[thewhiterose65]

I just watched this guy sing a song about telling actors and perfomers to shut up when it comes to political views. Hm. A little Christian Bigotry anyone? Served hot with a catchy tune and some coffee.

[christo930]

Is he a christian? I don't know. I am an atheist.

[thewhiterose65]

Yes. He has a bunch of YouTube vids from his Christian stand-up humor. He's funny, but if you look, you'll find a comment by him that he wishes actors and entertainers would just act and not express their political views (unAmerican by my standards) ... and then proceeds to do the very thing he denounces. I no longer like him.

[MasterAdam100]

@christo930 -Yeah he is. A conservative at that.

[Urbanledgend12]

ahahaha

[CoolConejo]

Ha ha ha wow, This is hilarious, Sad, and True : ( . It all makes sense now. Governments gone way too large.

[MadBadVoodo]

This is a great vid!

Five Stars!