If you think about it, by the "normal" standards of morality, all the people on the island are bad people. They have all done something terrible in their life. Why do we consider one more evil than the other? Ben make mistakes, but he isn't a monster.
"Normal standards"? You make it sound like the losties kill their own people just to get fruit. Losties have killed to save their own lives or others. Except for Michael, Locke and maybe Sawyer. But Ben killed (or at the very least helped kill) the entire Dharma Initiative. Women, Children, people he has known for his entire life. How can you justify that? That's why he's evil.
I'm not saying that he's a good person. I don't think his actions are justified. But I also don't think the others actions are justified either. Killing isn't the only issue here, either. What I'm saying is that Ben is a broken man who was abused and neglected. Did it turn him into a generally terrible human being? Sure. Does that make him evil? I don't think so. Ben doesn't have complete disregard for human life. If he did, he would have killed Charlie Hume that day on the docks.
Being abused and neglected doesn't justify lying, kidnapping, murdering, and who knows what else he has done. How could he be a generally bad person and good at the same time? Let me guess. He's not black or white but morally grey. To me, he's an evil man who could do good things. He tried to kill a woman but he didn't kill a baby. The point is that he tried to kill someone. More importantly, the person he was trying to kill did nothing to him.
I don't think that Ben is a good person and I never said that I do. I don't think there is anything that justifies his behavior. I think we are just differing in our definition of the word evil. IMO, saying that someone is evil implies that they have no compacity for good and have no humanity left in them. I don't believe that Ben is evil. He has done some good things. Calling Ben evil makes him sound like a monster and not a man. He does bad things, to be sure, but he started off good, as a kid
IMO, a person is evil when they murder and continue to murder, when they don't care for the lives of others, when they shoot people in the back for fear of being replaced, and when they allow people they have known for years to be killed. So, what if he was good as a kid? He's evil as an adult.
augment96 that's a very interesting point. I think that one name can justify that: Charles Widmore. In the episode 4x11 (Cabin Fever), Ben reveals that the decision of kill the entire Dharma Initiative was made for the leader. And I think that in this moment the leader is Charles Widmore. Open your eyes, Widmore is the real bad guy on the story of Lost. Widmore sent the boat with murderers, wants kill a poor baby (Alex), etc...
In that episode, I believe Charles was gone from the Island and Ben was the leader of the Others. But he was following Jacob's orders. So. I bet Ben blames Jacob for the massacre of the Dharma Initiative. They say Widmore is the bad guy. Think about it. man. The only real bad guy is Keamy. Even guys like Ben and Charles are somewhat morally grey. I guarantee in the sixth season, Widmore will be a good guy or at least do some good things.
No, that's not true. Widmore pay and contract all this mercenaries and Keamy included. Keamy wasn't have any reason to kill all the people on the Island, the responsable is Charles Widmore. He is the bad guy, i'm so sure.
Keamy killed all those people to get paid. Charles's reason for killing all those people is unclear. However, whatever Keamy did can be blamed on Widmore. Many things in Lost always change. That includes the bad guy. I guarantee Widmore will become a good guy or at least have a sympathetic reason for doing what he did.
I think that Ben's actions must be judged on the basis of just how special the Island is. Exceptional circumstances call for exceptional decisions. We don't yet know enough to say, but I side with the fact that Ben is doing what he feels he has to. He isn't evil, he does not enjoy destruction, but there are worse things on the horizon for the Island that, right now, only he understands.
What you said pretty much sums up what I think too. People are like "he's so evil! why do you like him?!", but it's not as simple good vs. bad. Ben killed people and that makes him bad, and the losties killed people too yet they are still considered good? Keamy is BAD. He kills people and doesn't give a damn. Ben only kills people when there is no other way. He is basically defending his homeland, and he WILL protect it - just like any real person/country would to to protect their home.
Yes, although in this case, I think it is a greater, or, how should I put it...more universal reality than national identity -- his commitment is almost religious. Of course, the death of his daughter obviously changes him, and it seems like he is now committed to revenge. Unfortunate. I can't wait to see what is in store for him, Locke and the Island.
What about the Dharma Initiative? Ben knew that the Others were going to kill them. He could have warned them. Instead, he helps the Others kill them. The losties only kill people to save their lives.
Well, it depends. Are we using the morality of the show as our moral thermometer? In this case, Ben has killed many people out of duty to the Island and to Jacob, hasn't he? Some he has committed, the rest, let's say, out of hatred and revenge. For Lost, it isn't the quantity of human life, but the quality of the act -- remember, the entire world of Lost is fictional, and it is a supernaturalist-sci-fi show, with its own moralities and ethics.
What about John? He almost killed Locke because Locke could hear Jacob. How was that protecting the Island? How about when he jammed all of the transmission signals from the Island? How did that protect the Island? How about those ladies at the Looking glass? They were killed by Mikhail, who was following Ben's orders. I admit Ben isn't truly evil. I can understand why people llike him. But saying that's he's a good guy? You've got to be kidding me.
Men, i'm not agree with you. Ben is the real good guy on the history, he have to do many sacrifices and the reason of he try to kill Locke when Jhon heard Jacob is because he are so tired... Years and years and Ben never listen Jacob, and Locke arrives and in a months he listen... Poor Ben... :(
What? Real good guy? Bullshit. He may think he's a good guy. But he isn't. Many sacrifices? Like letting his daughter die? Like killing that guy with the shotgun? Like killing Keamy, which resulted in the destruction of the freighter, which resulted in a lot of deaths like Michael (And he knew the boat was going to be destroyed. And he did it anyway)? Tired? What? Poor Ben? What's wrong with you? Poor John. He got shot because he heard a voice and he got killed trying to save the Island.
Yes, like killing Keamy. I understand perfectly the action of Ben, this man is the responsable of the murdered of his daughter. How its possible that you say "like letting his daughter die". The only responsables are Keamy and Widmore! And he kills Keamy when he start to say bad things how "You remember she dead in the floor?". I like Jhon Locke, men, but if you speak about Ben, i can begin to speak about "the poor Locke". The man that only thinks in herself and the Island. Like Ben.
No, RonnsMoss, I think thant in this moment Ben doesn't think like a normal person. He need to move the island if they want survive, and he are very ungry for the murdered of his daughter. For this reasons, I can understand that Ben kill Keamy in this moment.
Keamy killed Alex. But Ben let it happen. He cared more about his own life then his daughter's. I have to admit he may have been right in killing Keamy. But he knew what would happen if he had killed Keamy. He was willing to let all those people die just for his revenge. That is evil. Ben thinks way more about himself than the Island. John is the opposite of Ben. He cares more about the Island than himself.
Sorry, it was an accident (coments dissapear). Please, read my answer in your box-email of youtube. (Sorry for my english, I'm spanish, only 16 years old hahaha!).
Oh, by the way, I think Ben might not exactly be a "good guy" like Jack is, for example, but I think he's fighting for the right cause...he just doesn't do it the right way
wow, my favourite band - muse and one of my favourite characters in my favourite show! hehe..bit of a weird combination though, but its good anyways :)
I love this song, good early Muse
22staceyc 1 year ago
Ben is good. :) and sexy as hell. ;)
BriBri897 1 year ago
finaly we know that he is a good man,or dont we? ;-)
i think he is
cydest23 1 year ago
Ben era muy poderoso
Ahora ya no es nada
MyNameIsMystery 2 years ago
If you think about it, by the "normal" standards of morality, all the people on the island are bad people. They have all done something terrible in their life. Why do we consider one more evil than the other? Ben make mistakes, but he isn't a monster.
RunningWithRum 2 years ago
you are right!!! I LOVE THE CHARACTER OF BENJAMIN LINUS!!!
desesperadoorson 2 years ago
"Normal standards"? You make it sound like the losties kill their own people just to get fruit. Losties have killed to save their own lives or others. Except for Michael, Locke and maybe Sawyer. But Ben killed (or at the very least helped kill) the entire Dharma Initiative. Women, Children, people he has known for his entire life. How can you justify that? That's why he's evil.
augment96 2 years ago
I'm not saying that he's a good person. I don't think his actions are justified. But I also don't think the others actions are justified either. Killing isn't the only issue here, either. What I'm saying is that Ben is a broken man who was abused and neglected. Did it turn him into a generally terrible human being? Sure. Does that make him evil? I don't think so. Ben doesn't have complete disregard for human life. If he did, he would have killed Charlie Hume that day on the docks.
RunningWithRum 2 years ago
Being abused and neglected doesn't justify lying, kidnapping, murdering, and who knows what else he has done. How could he be a generally bad person and good at the same time? Let me guess. He's not black or white but morally grey. To me, he's an evil man who could do good things. He tried to kill a woman but he didn't kill a baby. The point is that he tried to kill someone. More importantly, the person he was trying to kill did nothing to him.
augment96 2 years ago
I don't think that Ben is a good person and I never said that I do. I don't think there is anything that justifies his behavior. I think we are just differing in our definition of the word evil. IMO, saying that someone is evil implies that they have no compacity for good and have no humanity left in them. I don't believe that Ben is evil. He has done some good things. Calling Ben evil makes him sound like a monster and not a man. He does bad things, to be sure, but he started off good, as a kid
RunningWithRum 2 years ago
IMO, a person is evil when they murder and continue to murder, when they don't care for the lives of others, when they shoot people in the back for fear of being replaced, and when they allow people they have known for years to be killed. So, what if he was good as a kid? He's evil as an adult.
augment96 2 years ago
augment96 that's a very interesting point. I think that one name can justify that: Charles Widmore. In the episode 4x11 (Cabin Fever), Ben reveals that the decision of kill the entire Dharma Initiative was made for the leader. And I think that in this moment the leader is Charles Widmore. Open your eyes, Widmore is the real bad guy on the story of Lost. Widmore sent the boat with murderers, wants kill a poor baby (Alex), etc...
desesperadoorson 2 years ago
In that episode, I believe Charles was gone from the Island and Ben was the leader of the Others. But he was following Jacob's orders. So. I bet Ben blames Jacob for the massacre of the Dharma Initiative. They say Widmore is the bad guy. Think about it. man. The only real bad guy is Keamy. Even guys like Ben and Charles are somewhat morally grey. I guarantee in the sixth season, Widmore will be a good guy or at least do some good things.
augment96 2 years ago
No, that's not true. Widmore pay and contract all this mercenaries and Keamy included. Keamy wasn't have any reason to kill all the people on the Island, the responsable is Charles Widmore. He is the bad guy, i'm so sure.
desesperadoorson 2 years ago
Keamy killed all those people to get paid. Charles's reason for killing all those people is unclear. However, whatever Keamy did can be blamed on Widmore. Many things in Lost always change. That includes the bad guy. I guarantee Widmore will become a good guy or at least have a sympathetic reason for doing what he did.
augment96 2 years ago
Sniff...; } ,trop bien cette video mais elle fait pleurer !
ch36e 3 years ago
Nice ;{
Agugasek 3 years ago
I think that Ben's actions must be judged on the basis of just how special the Island is. Exceptional circumstances call for exceptional decisions. We don't yet know enough to say, but I side with the fact that Ben is doing what he feels he has to. He isn't evil, he does not enjoy destruction, but there are worse things on the horizon for the Island that, right now, only he understands.
darkprose 4 years ago 28
You mean, actually Ben is not bad man, he is doing only necessary moves after calculate. He trying to optimum results for his aims.
predatora 3 years ago 12
Yes. I think season 4 is showing this perspective -- Ben as ethically motivated -- to be true.
darkprose 3 years ago 5
I am agree with you. And as for me Ben is smartest people on the island.
predatora 3 years ago 11
"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out far one can go." -TS Elliot
ChaosDarkie 3 years ago 5
What you said pretty much sums up what I think too. People are like "he's so evil! why do you like him?!", but it's not as simple good vs. bad. Ben killed people and that makes him bad, and the losties killed people too yet they are still considered good? Keamy is BAD. He kills people and doesn't give a damn. Ben only kills people when there is no other way. He is basically defending his homeland, and he WILL protect it - just like any real person/country would to to protect their home.
susiesan 3 years ago 3
Yes, although in this case, I think it is a greater, or, how should I put it...more universal reality than national identity -- his commitment is almost religious. Of course, the death of his daughter obviously changes him, and it seems like he is now committed to revenge. Unfortunate. I can't wait to see what is in store for him, Locke and the Island.
darkprose 3 years ago 2
What about the Dharma Initiative? Ben knew that the Others were going to kill them. He could have warned them. Instead, he helps the Others kill them. The losties only kill people to save their lives.
augment96 2 years ago
He's not evil? He keeps on killing people and he will never stop. What's more evil than that?
augment96 2 years ago
Well, it depends. Are we using the morality of the show as our moral thermometer? In this case, Ben has killed many people out of duty to the Island and to Jacob, hasn't he? Some he has committed, the rest, let's say, out of hatred and revenge. For Lost, it isn't the quantity of human life, but the quality of the act -- remember, the entire world of Lost is fictional, and it is a supernaturalist-sci-fi show, with its own moralities and ethics.
darkprose 2 years ago
What about John? He almost killed Locke because Locke could hear Jacob. How was that protecting the Island? How about when he jammed all of the transmission signals from the Island? How did that protect the Island? How about those ladies at the Looking glass? They were killed by Mikhail, who was following Ben's orders. I admit Ben isn't truly evil. I can understand why people llike him. But saying that's he's a good guy? You've got to be kidding me.
augment96 2 years ago
Men, i'm not agree with you. Ben is the real good guy on the history, he have to do many sacrifices and the reason of he try to kill Locke when Jhon heard Jacob is because he are so tired... Years and years and Ben never listen Jacob, and Locke arrives and in a months he listen... Poor Ben... :(
desesperadoorson 2 years ago
What? Real good guy? Bullshit. He may think he's a good guy. But he isn't. Many sacrifices? Like letting his daughter die? Like killing that guy with the shotgun? Like killing Keamy, which resulted in the destruction of the freighter, which resulted in a lot of deaths like Michael (And he knew the boat was going to be destroyed. And he did it anyway)? Tired? What? Poor Ben? What's wrong with you? Poor John. He got shot because he heard a voice and he got killed trying to save the Island.
augment96 2 years ago
Yes, like killing Keamy. I understand perfectly the action of Ben, this man is the responsable of the murdered of his daughter. How its possible that you say "like letting his daughter die". The only responsables are Keamy and Widmore! And he kills Keamy when he start to say bad things how "You remember she dead in the floor?". I like Jhon Locke, men, but if you speak about Ben, i can begin to speak about "the poor Locke". The man that only thinks in herself and the Island. Like Ben.
desesperadoorson 2 years ago
Your sense of morality is disturbing. Ben isn't a good person.
You think it's okay to kill 1 bad person if it means that action will kill 100 innocent people?
RonnsMoss 2 years ago
No, RonnsMoss, I think thant in this moment Ben doesn't think like a normal person. He need to move the island if they want survive, and he are very ungry for the murdered of his daughter. For this reasons, I can understand that Ben kill Keamy in this moment.
desesperadoorson 2 years ago
His anger at Keamy and sadness over Alex doesn't change the fact that he was willing to kill over a hundred people to get revenge.
augment96 2 years ago
Keamy killed Alex. But Ben let it happen. He cared more about his own life then his daughter's. I have to admit he may have been right in killing Keamy. But he knew what would happen if he had killed Keamy. He was willing to let all those people die just for his revenge. That is evil. Ben thinks way more about himself than the Island. John is the opposite of Ben. He cares more about the Island than himself.
augment96 2 years ago
Comment removed
desesperadoorson 2 years ago
Comment removed
desesperadoorson 2 years ago
Sorry, it was an accident (coments dissapear). Please, read my answer in your box-email of youtube. (Sorry for my english, I'm spanish, only 16 years old hahaha!).
desesperadoorson 2 years ago
Uh, okay.
augment96 2 years ago
ben is just so cute ♥.♥
L00pled0 4 years ago 18
Oh, by the way, I think Ben might not exactly be a "good guy" like Jack is, for example, but I think he's fighting for the right cause...he just doesn't do it the right way
fookingmrsschwein 4 years ago 4
good guy is ironic. i don't think he is too but good guy is what he say he is and referr to the others as the good people.
Gordonauta90 4 years ago
I know :-) I just wanted to say what I thought about Ben's statement
fookingmrsschwein 4 years ago
He's a balding, chubby old man, and I totally adore him
fookingmrsschwein 4 years ago 3
great...
lemsipGY 4 years ago
Those eyes...just kind of stare through you. He's so awesome!
Lissbirds 4 years ago 2
I tuoi video sono favolosi.Mi hai fatto appassionare a Lost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Iosifsid 4 years ago
cool vid=)What`s the title of this song?
yeloy 5 years ago
it's unintended, performed by muse
lostfanatika 5 years ago
wow, my favourite band - muse and one of my favourite characters in my favourite show! hehe..bit of a weird combination though, but its good anyways :)
hellbunny1991 5 years ago