The Parthenon

[roperclack]

Such beauty, such culture. LONG LIVE GREECE!!!!!

[franknwalters]

FOR EVERYBODY ELSE TO READ:

The debate between me and odalrich had to with whether the transaction that took place between lord asshole elgin & the turks, was leagal or not.

Elgin didn't kept his part of the deal ripping off all the marbles from the Parthenon when the turks acording to the firman they signed were allowing him to make moulds and take ONLY some marbles & DEFINITELY NOT ALL.

When odalrich couldn't make another excuse, he started insulting my country.

[WanderingOdysseus]

What great people can do is not amazing. The most amazing part is what the undeveloped can do to claim it.

If spreading the marbles all over the world is civilization then all of us, who want them back where they belong, are uncivilized.

History cannot be changed. Any false-lord or diplomat of the previous centuries is too insignificant to change it. His descendants will have to do a lot of work to clean their names. And if they won't they're surely are his descendants.

[franknwalters]

It just breaks my heart to see the Parthenon being naked without the marbles that this asshole looooooooooord elgin, brutaly removed ...

It gets worse when in the 21st century the brrrrrritish goverment and the brrrrrritish museum (even the word is greek) speaks about legal transaction with the turks occupiers!

For god's sake, grow up...This is absurd !

[spacemonk2011]

it is rather rediculus saying that due to economic crisis marbles can not return home . We all know UK is under economic crisis too. Unfortunatelly I have to inform you that Greeks have a state of the art scientific knowlegde of preserving and restoring their monuments. if your anxiety though is that in British museum those stolen pieces of art can be seen by more visitors then i would suggest to move all those "sculpures' either to Beigin or to Shanghai as there can be admired by more people..

[odalrich]

@Evolvedprimate I'm not acquainted with Lord Elgin's ethylic interests, but I must repeat that he saved the Marbles that Greece, due to its economic, political or whatever situation, was not able to preserve. If the creator is in a bad situation, it is normal for someone to acquire his work to preserve it. And this is precisely what Lord Elgin's did. I do not think the current economic situation in Greece can allow this country to manage the maintenance of this great work.

[Evolvedprimate]

One final thing, the sculptures (not the marbles) were not taken to save them but to be sold so elgin would pay for his whiskey, this man had no appreciation for art or culture.

So for you now to give me the excuse of saving them by this hooligan is insulting because you presume I do not know as much as you do.

[odalrich]

@Evolvedprimate I'm not acquainted with Lord Elgin's ethylic interests, but I must repeat that he saved the Marbles that Greece, due to its economic, political or whatever situation, was not able to preserve. If the creator is in a bad situation, it is normal for someone to acquire his work to preserve it. And this is precisely what Lord Elgin's did. I do not think the current economic situation in Greece can allow this country to manage the maintenance of this great work.

[Evolvedprimate]

@odalrich

In order for you to peddle your petty excuse you have to show respect for the most famous sculptures in the world and stop calling them marbles.

May be sculptures is a bit too civilizing for you and prefer stones of the marble variety, I have to converse in an equal level so this is the end.

[odalrich]

@Evolvedprimate When I’m talking about the Marbles, with a capital M and within the context of the Parthenon, I am referring to the sculptures of that building. Stop making excuses to feel angry and start insulting, because you’re grumbling like a sulky little child. If you want from now on I will call them by its true name: the Elgin Marbles, which is as they are known in the civilized world. Good-bye and good luck to you.

[AugustusAurelianus1]

@fabianoasc - what a fabulous video, my friend! Thank you very much for sending it

[Sabbalonns]

And to keep on preaching, none of us here are prepared to fight to take 'things back' and its only by fighting wehre our ancestors able to take the plots of land we call countries, or to take the resources that we use to fuel our economy. So why some of u pathetic people go on about 'give us our marbles back', maby you should remember that you don't have half of the bravery of the people who stood and died to protect you're country, and would be ashamed to see the way you squirm.

[Sabbalonns]

Its so awful that all these beautiful artifacts were taken, but at the time the places they were taken from may of been less then fit to keep them in good condition in which generations could of seen then. For example, great building that had stood for hundred of years like the Parthenon were simply destroyed by people who took the foundations to build their own houses ! Sure, maby its wrong to keep those artifacts on another countries soil, but isnt it more important that they are still here ?

[Jules7892]

Comrade GREEKS, you must TRUST the Genuine ATLANTIS of PORTUGAL & our remaining AZORES Peak Summit Mountains of ATLANTIS, ATLAS and POSEIDON of True similar Culture to GREECE even though our 2 languages only remain with the last word of the Millenniums of "GRAVATA"=TIE and "TAVERNA"=Tavern to BOTH GREEKS & ATLANTIS PORTUGUESE. Hospitality Ancient European Civilizations must be together to bring back to GREECE its Monuments.GREECE, together with BRAZIL, Portugal ATLANTIS has the "MARBLE" GREECE!

[BrocoIiRob]

lol if they gave the marbles back, then everyone else would want their stuff back.

there would be nothing left in the british museums!

(not saying i fupport the brittish having them, just saying)

[MTLSPARTAN]

us greeks should just get up one day go to england and get them back,just like the good old days,"WE TAKE WHAT WE WANT " because asking is for pussy's.

[Evolvedprimate]

Cultures are created not stolen.

But don't forget the Greeks call them Elgin's marbles, a name the British use which shows that the Greeks don’t know what it is they want returned.

The servile Greek ministry of culture adopted the name the British gave them instead of asking for the Parthenon sculptures, thus showing disrespect for the sculptures and ignorance in negotiations.

If you want back something that is Greek you don’t ask for it using an English name.

[odalrich]

@Evolvedprimate Lord Elgin was the man who saved the Marbles from spoil and plunder, therefore these beautiful masterpieces ought to bear his name. Greece has an enourmous National Heritage which is incapable of preserving in a proper state and the British Museum is doing, and has done, a great mighty job to preserve these jewels for the whole world. The Marbles should be kept in the British Museum forever

[vabilas28]

@odalrich No, actually the techniques used by the bribish reconstractors in their efforts to "polish" the marbles caused more damage than the period of 22 centuries.

[odalrich]

@vabilas28 The damages to the Elgin Marbles occurred more than a century ago when there was insufficient knowledge about the restoration of ancient monuments; today these monuments are perfectly kept and their maintenance is highly professional. The global crisis has shown no mercy with Greece and I don't think that country has sufficient funds to maintain such a large national heritage. Most likely Greece will have to sell more monuments to pay off its enormous National Debt.

[vabilas28]

@odalrich YOU dont think.... YOU dont think??? huh??? i m sorry, i didn t know i was refering to the spanish minister of Economy.... Well, i wish that the exact same crisis would strike Spain too....

"sell more monuments"? "sell MORE monuments?" You little arrogant arabic or catalonan piece of crap, Greece has NEVER sold its monuments... It was those god damn Turks that did so...

Sent my regards to your ugly Queen...

[odalrich]

@vabilas28 If insulting is the way you deal with people, I accept the challenge; you piece of Ottoman crap.1) I have nothing to do with the Spanish Ministry of Economy. 2) I'm not even Spanish or Catalan ..... or Arabic, for that matter. The Sublime Porte sold the marbles of its Greek province to Lord Elgin. It was a legal transaction. Which queen? the British or Spanish? - If the latter let me remind you that she is Greek like you. Greek women aren't famous for their beauty.

[vabilas28]

@odalrich dear old lady, the Spanish Queen in not Greek, she is from Denmark (Gluxburg). The Greeks exiled their Danish kings more than 40 years ago... When your lord -i spit on his grave- Elgin STOLE, S T O L E, the marbles the Greeks were under turkish occupation... (the sublime porte as you say).

So, i figure you re just a British trash... Please, wake up and understand that THE SUN HAS LONG AGO SET!!!! chears, old lady

[odalrich]

@vabilas28 It seems that after granting me some nationalities that had nothing to do with me , now you're trying to change my sex, it seems that intelligence is not your strong point. Lord Elgin acquired the marbles legally and took them out of the Ottoman Empire with an official permit ( FIRMAN), therefore the arrival of this material in London was due to a legal transaction. You should learn more about this before writing anymore nonsense.

[vabilas28]

@odalrich good bye

[odalrich]

@vabilas28 Good bye, comrade.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

Yeah, Afrodite was an ugly bitch right?

Man your brain is full of shit. You know that?

If someone occupies your country & an asshole from another country comes and makes a deal with the shity occupation authorities to buy Big Ben or the Stoneheads and then this asshole removes the monument and take it to his shity country, WOULD YOU RECOGNIZE THIS AS LEGAL TRANSACTION???

There's no way to justify why you keep these marbles thousands of miles away from where they should be.

Period

[odalrich]

@franknwalters Greece was then part of the Ottoman Empire, recognised by the whole civilised world as such at that particular time, therefore, the sale of the marbles to Lord Elgin was totally legal. You ought to read some books on International law before insulting and using foul language.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich You want me to apologise? NO sir...

You see I've done my reading. I studied 5 years to become a civil engineer and another 4 to become an architect.

What I've learned sir is how to build things, how to respect the some of highest forms of human civilization.

What I certainly didn't learn is how to destroy beautiful things using some 600 y.o. laws to justify my stupidity.

You don't have to read anything to become something like that... sir...

[odalrich]

@franknwalters Look, chum, I never said you had to apologise. I’ve never questioned your knowledge of engineering & architecture and your love for beautiful things; I’ve just questioned your knowledge of international trade. In Elgin’s time there was a commercial transaction between him and the Sultanate according to the laws that existed at that time. This transaction was legal.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

My knowledge of international trade...

Does history comply with these laws?

You see we're not talking about some pieces of stone BUT what they represent for two and a half thousand years now.

THIS is what we're talking about and it doesn't follow the laws you are refering to.

It is crystal clear.

Those who want to keep the marbles where they are now and their lack of integrity is the real problem.

History is not a commercial good and doesn't comply with any international trade law...

[odalrich]

@franknwalters. Greece was an Ottoman province under Ottoman law; this is a fact in History. It wasn’t an occupied country like France (an example) during the German occupation. The possession of that province was recognised by the powers of that time. All transactions done under the laws of that period were legal, the Marbles were acquired with a firman (an Ottoman official document) from the Sultan, a Head of State recognised as such by the rest of the nations. This is as clear as daylight.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich Perhapse you should do some reading.

The firman (which by the way signed by the vizier Segut Abdullah, not the sultan) you're refering to was allowing lord asshole to take some marbles from the monument, but not to hurt its integrity!!

This lord asshole ripped off all the marbles bribing the elder turks, the sultans administers, not to tell the sultan what he was doing...

Does this now seems to you as a legal transaction?

There are proves for all of the above...

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

SOME MARBLES !

[odalrich]

@franknwalters When I mentioned the Sultan I was referring to his government, not to the actual Sultan. The name of the chap in the signature is irrelevant at this stage of the debate. Only SOME MARBLES were granted to Lord Elgin? OK, then, the Greek government ought to list those items not included on the firman and claim their property. As simple as this. The question is: is Greece in a position to assure the preservation and free public exhibition of these items? I don't think so.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich Please dont get me wrong for asking but, are you an idiot? I dont thing so...

What lord asshole did wasnt a leagal transaction. He didnt kept his part of the deal.

Only this fact makes the whole transaction illegal.

I'm not a lawyer but I can insure you that this is what the international trade laws determine.

This whole deal was illegal. PERIOD.

Is this "as clear as daylight" for you now ???

[odalrich]

@franknwalters 1) Is there any documentation in which the "elder Turks" admit they've been bribed? I doubt it. The Parthenon was an ammunition depot that had been destroyed by Venetian artillery and there was no way of knowing which items were to be taken away and which were to stay. The British Museum has preserved these masterpieces throughout the ages so that the glory of Ancient Athens can be seen by the whole world (free of charge). The troubled history of Greece would have turned •••/••·

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

And you're becoming more contentious by asking if the Greece can assure the preservation of the marbles.

The city of Athens for some years now has one of the finest museums globaly only for these marbles.

A museum designed by Bernard Tschumi.

You should visit its web page...

Now are you gonna keep reproducing the stupid excuses of Br. Museum or you gonna think something clever by you self?

[odalrich]

 2)•/••• these wonders into dust. Neither Ottoman nor independent Greece gave much of a damn for the Heritage until recent times. The British Museum should be honoured by all Greeks for its enormous task of preserving this World Heritage.

Your country is indebted down to its bones for the next generations and most likely you'll have to sell part of your remaining national heritage in order to comply with your debt commitments which you'll have to pay off during many years into the future.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

Ha, ha, ha...

So this is the true odalrich.

Man you fooled for a while but now I see that you're an actual idiot.

You are a bad interlocutor, your arguments are not valid and when you run out of excuses you're being mean.

WHAT A GREAT PERSONALITY !

I'm sure your friends -if you have any friend which I'm sure you don't- must laugh at you behind your back like I laugh at you now AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU.

:D)))))))))

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

Now please excuse me, I have to go...

I'm gonna sell my Mercedes to help my country pay off it's debt...

I think I'll be ok with just my X6.

It's a cruel world we live in...

:D)))))

[odalrich]

@franknwalters 

[odalrich]

@franknwalters The opinion of my friends on Greek management is rather negative. Yes, they would laugh at me if they knew I'm wasting my time debating with a Greek. A piece of advice: sell your Mercedes to a foreign tourist, so you can inject fresh money into your shattered economy, if you sell it to a fellow Greek you'll get paid with money already committed to debt and this wouldn't be of much help; as you say: this is a cruel world.

Cheerio, old boy, and don't do anything I wouldn't do.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich HA, ha, ha.

I have a better idea. I'll send the money to your country Spain although I think you're british. These countries has worst problems than ours.

You see here the country might have some problems but the people don't have any real problem. 10 million greeks has 830 billion euros only in Swiss banks.

Does this sounds like a problem to you?

We have enough money in our pockets to pay your debt too.

And just cause I like you call me if you need some help with your rent or debt

[odalrich]

@franknwalters 1) I thought we had said farewell to each other and now you’re back again raving and talking nonsense. If you people have so much money in Switzerland or elsewhere, don't pay other nations' debts just pay YOUR debts. I don't mind debating with Greeks, but you're too emotional. Your debt is not irrelevant; it is proof of an irresponsible and chaotic administration that pretends to claim the works of art under the care of responsible and serious institutions. ···/···

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

1. The "serious institution" (the br. museum) you're refering to, some decades ago trying to clean these marbles used WIRE BRUSHES leaving permanently, irretrievably scratches visible to the naked eye.

2. The "serious institution" you're refering is very well known to rest of the world for it's RIPPING OFF actions from countless countries.

3. Preserving the Parthenon marbles it's a "lifes work" for so many people here that you couldn't even imagine...

4. YOU'RE A BAD PERSON :(

[odalrich]

@franknwalters Unfortunately, some scratch marks have been left on the Marbles due to faulty restoration in 1930’s. They’ve been carefully taken care of with the latest technology and skills on the matter ever since. This damage would have been worse if they’d remained in the ruins of the Parthenon.

Your public call is certainly pathetic, it sounds like this:” Mummy, Daddy, Odalrich is insulting me and he's a BAD PERSON!" I guess you're still living with Mom & Dad and old habits die hard.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

You wrote "Greek women aren't famous for their beauty" & you say MY public call is pathetic?

Ha, ha ,ha...

You're right man, I'm sorry... You're the man!

I'm still living with my parents on the fifth decade of my life. I can't afford to live alone. I gave all the money I earned from my work to pay my country's debt.

But still anything you say won't change the fact that this transaction was ILLEGAL by definition.

This won't change no matter what you say about me or my country.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

P.S.: faulty restoration from your finest, best, glorious & serious institution?

What comes next? Are they gonna smear them with butter and bake them at 180 degrees Celsius?

That is exactly what I mean when I say "poor mind".

All your attempts to support your positions failed cause you're wrong and provocative & these are the only reasons why you're doing this here, with me and the others before me. YOU'RE ENJOYING THIS... and this makes you a sad, miserable and YES a bad person.

[odalrich]

@franknwalte You won’t give up, will you? I stand by what I said before, the acquisition of the Marbles was done through a legal transaction; you haven't proved otherwise. What I said about Greek women in the past was because a guy was rude to two Queens and my reply was tit for tat. When provoked, I shoot back, and I don’t enjoy it; sometimes I pity people who are so emotional. The BM made an unintentional mistake when restoring the marbles, 80 years ago; this does not make it less seriously.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

Let me summarize what YOU'RE SAYING:

1. the fact that the br.museum damaged the marbles doesn't makes it less serious BUT Greece can't preserve them -like the b.m. does- cause is not serious (by definition),

2. elgin didn't kept his part of the deal BUT IT'S OK the transaction is legal (by definition),

3. you PITY US cause we're being emotional when we hear the above (excuses).

And you're calling me pathetic ?

REALLY ?

[odalrich]

@franknwalters Your résumé is wrong, you haven't understood what I was saying in my posts. Were not serious the practitioners of the eighteenth century because the mortality of their patients was higher than that of the XXI century? Can you assure that Greek experts, after independence, would have done better at preserving the Marbles? Nowadays you have a huge National Heritage that is crumbling down to pieces, according to some reports I’ve read. And this isn’t my invention.

[odalrich]

@franknwalters Just for the sake of discussion: “Lord Elgin didn’t keep his part of the deal” OK, let’s accept this as the truth, AND SO WHAT? The Ottoman Administration didn’t complain. The Marbles were Ottoman, not Greek, remember? And this was accepted by the Powers of the day. Greece came into existence in 1830 (the year the sovereignty of Greece was confirmed by the London Protocol), prior to this date there wasn't, in History, a state called Greece. And this is History, not my invention.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich Stop playing with words...

1.The fact tha the turks didn't comlain or reclaimed the marbles is besides the fact that the deal is ILLEGAL.

2.The fact that there was no Greek state AS WE KNOW IT is irrelative too.

3.My résumé? Lets see what you wrote----->"is Greece in a position to assure the preservation?" IS not WAS.

My country's debt issue brougth to you cause--->"You people should be tackling the serious problems affecting your country and not claiming things that you'll never get"

[odalrich]

@franknwalters Look, you're going on the same issue over and over again and we're getting nowhere. I told you I have not invented anything. The International business press makes the comments every time they talk about Greece. One of the latest comments, in addition to selling more national heritage, is to sell Greek islands to international multibillionaires. My own opinion is you could sell part of the islands off the Turkish coast to Turkey; its economy is doing very well.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich That seems to be the problem, you "reproduce" what you read & hear.

You should TRY TO TALK SENCE & not what every chauvinist journalist writes, pushed by his nostalgia that the british empire's past greatness & glory left when it was brought down to it's knees & then burned to ashes.

You know of course that our relations with the turks are determined by the "casus belli" THEY hold for us. So WHY ARE YOU BEING CONTENTIOUS once more?

We tried to be friends with them, they don't want it.

[odalrich]

@franknwalters It is the international press, not only British, that suggests Greece should sell monuments or islands to pay off the debt. There is no “casus belli” between Greece and Turkey because both countries are NATO members and neither this organisation nor the USA would accept a war involving both countries; so stop imagining things.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich I really would like to see what will happend to you when "COUNTRY LEECHING TIME" comes to an end.

STILL you haven't given to me ONE STRAIGHT ANSWER to anything I asked you.

The imaginary "casus belli" it's a very real one. You don't seem to observe the international press that good.

Perhaps you just get your informations from "The Sun".

It's better to talk about things YOU CAN actually talk...

So...how is Victoria Beckham? Is she pregnant again?

[odalrich]

@franknwalters I cannot dedicate time to replying all the posts I receive from people who have all the time in the world as they have nothing better to do. I'm not mentioning any names!! ha ha ha.

I haven't got the faintest idea if Vicky Beckham is pregnant; if she is, I have nothing to do with it. I promise! Must reply the fictional International Law problem (Kingdom of Granada) it is related to our debate and we can’t go on with it if you don’t reply.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

9. As for the window from Granada I told you WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A WINDOW. We're talking of what these marbles REPRISENTS and this don't belong to the seller NOR the buyer. It can't be sold.

IT"S LIKE ASKING to put a price on freedom of speech, or dignity. There's NO VALUE for these things, although SOME OF YOU there in the island do exactly this thing.

Let me remind you the revelations for your prime minister lately of how he worked his way up...

[odalrich]

@franknwalters …/…2) there is an answer and I’m waiting for yours. Marble engravings of verses from the Koran, you thought windows were not important. “what these marbles REPRISENTS which don't belong to the "seller" NOR the "buyer". It can't be sold” This is an exercise on ambiguity, not a reply. “Greece certainly don't want to have any war at all (unlike you)” Where did I say I wanted a war? I expect you’re not a liar. You refer to Britain with insults: sorry I’m not British.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

You must have a great idea for your self, right?

YOU WROTE TO ME about your insults against Greek women AS A WHOLE ---> "what I said about Greek women in the past was because A GUY WAS RUDE TO TWO QUEENS and my reply was TIT FOR TAT. When provoked, I shoot back". Remember?

1.When you shoot, point your weapon forwards. You shot your self ‘cause…

2.You have to be A SICK person to feel offended or provoked from insults for the british queen, WHEN YOU’RE NOT BRITISH. -------->

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

---> So either you’re British and A LIAR or NOT British and SICK.

If British: then LYING about your origins, makes you a COWARD that should be avoided by his fellow citizens.

If NOT British: being provocative, offensive, abusive, arrogant, & a chauvinist NOT for YOUR OWN COUNTRY'S SAKE, well guess what that MAKES YOU...

So just because I respect my self, I’m gonna stop playing what seems to be the IDIOTIC GAME OF A SICK PERSON.

[odalrich]

Though neither the Spanish queen nor the British one is my monarch, I respect them very much, and I don’t like seeing them insulted. I don’t judge things according to their nationality, but according to evidence: you’ve failed to prove Greece has a juridical right to claim the Elgin Marbles. I’ve given you a fictional example to go on discussing this matter, but you haven’t replied. I think you don't reply because you realize there is no case and, therefore, nothing further to be discussed.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

"The British government and the head of the British Museum separately or together, have realized by now that they're fighting a lost battle. They know well that the documentation of the validity of Elgin's title deed is weak and ambiguous and the negative publicity they have gained from the case is huge. I am absolutely certain that the sculptures will go to Athens very soon."

This is a statement at the press of a professor at the University of Cambridge.

This was my last reply...

[odalrich]

@franknwalters What you write in your post is wishful thinking. If it ever happens, it'll be for political reasons, not because the law backs the claims of Greece.

I do respect the queen of Spain; nevertheless I must confess she wouldn't win a beauty contest. Wotan (if Danish) or Zeus (if Greek) didn't endow her with the gift of beauty. My last communication.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

NO, NO, NO, Noooo

YOU DIDN'T JUST say that she's not pretty.

YOU SAID she's ugly like all Greek women are... HUGE DIFFERENCE !

This goes further than showing no respect to the women of a CERTAIN NATIONALITY or to a queen.

This is CALLED RACISM, which when it joins your chauvinism and density, gives us the three basic elements of the gorgeous person that (you think) you are...

I'll give you an advice old man, keep those elements to your self.

In fact keep your self to your self.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

As for the "wishful thinking" ...

...since when the (reasoned) opinion of a HIGH educated and at the highest level active professor (at the University of Cambridge) is wishful thinking ?

Can't escape your self right? Typical...

It's a good thing you wrote that it's your last communication.

Keep it that way...

[kyriacos40]

@odalrich First of all you dont know what you are talking about,every country has pretty people, ugly, or plain people in it.My mother and her two sisters were good looking women.My male teachers use to drool over my mother when I was youngue going to school.My sister when she picked me up from school once the male classmates were freaking out over my sister.As for this subject about women in Greece being pretty or not, sounds so childish and shallow.I dont like people like you.

[odalrich]

@kyriacos40 I'm extremely glad your mom was so gorgeous as to arouse your teacher, and that your sister altered the hormones of your teenage school mates. I think your teacher should’ve been more discreet to avoid possible psychological traumas to you. All our school mates used to get randy with our sisters and female cousins, this is quite normal at this early age. We’ve never met and we're not likely to do so in a foreseeable future, therefore your dislike of me is totally irrelevant.Cheerio.

[kyriacos40]

@odalrich Yea, go choke on a Cheerio

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

Well actually I can't help my self for one last time...

THIS is how YOU SHOWED YOUR RESPECT to the queen of Spain, while talking to a Greek before me: "If the latter let me remind you that she (THE QUEEN OF SPAIN) is Greek like you. Greek women aren't famous for their beauty".

You're really something!

[franknwalters]

@odalrich One last infrmation for from an international news web page:

"The key factor for instability in the Aegean is the Turkish casus belli, if Greece extend it's territorial waters from 6 nautical miles (11 km), to 12 nautical miles (22 km), as has been enshrined in treaty law by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea of 1982 (Art.3).".

Next time you'll try to say something TRY to broaden your horizons first, to open your mind AND A SERIOUS PAPER from time to time...

[odalrich]

@franknwalters Look boy, you're not really conscious of the present situation your country is going through; Greece can't even declare war on the Principality of Monaco, let alone the Republic of Turkey whose economy is growing like a giant's. The outcome of a conflict with Turkey might end with Greece, once an Ottoman province, turned into a Turkish province. We don't want this to happen, do we? I’m sure you can be more serious than that.

[odalrich]

@franknwalters 1) Let me first congratulate you on the verdict of the Constitutional Court of ... ... Germany. You're going to get fresh funds to your battered economy and all of us are going to benefit indirectly from this decision. Hitler's descendants are smarter than him, it wasn't necessary to invade anyone, they can give orders sitting comfortably at home. However one thing bothers me: your attempt to skive off your reply to the juridical problem stated in my fictional story. …/…

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

And just because you're keep bringing on my country's debt issue (which is irrelative) in a HUMILIATING WAY...

...how come the UK has such a HUGE FINANCIAL PROBLEMS, that we all read about in the International Economic Press (with the exception of uk press)?

We're talking of a serious country which FOR CENTURIES SUCKS to the last drop it's colonies wealth.

And we're not talking about 10 or 20 countries & regions.

The catalog holds the names of ---->

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

-----> The catalog holds the names of 225 very rich in natural resources countries and regions, many of whom YOU STILL LEECH.

The press may focus on Greece but only because is a Euro-Zone country, which you’re not, BUT STILL this doesn’t change the fact that your mighty and serious country HAVE A MASSIVE FINANCIAL PROBLEM, which if ever blows is gonna "end the world as we know it".

So, what went wrong with you? Where did this HUGE, ENORMOUSLY BIG FORTUNE –we never had one- went?

[odalrich]

@franknwalters Britain's economy, like the economy of many other countries, has been the victim of the markets and the stupidity of politicians. I've never denied this. But, unlike Greece, it's not claiming any patrimony that eventually wouldn't be able to finance. And above all it didn't publish any manipulated information about its economy; Greece did, with the aggravating circumstance that it is member of the Euro zone and, therefore, tried to cheat the Union members.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

1.Greece certainly don't want to have any war at all (unlike you). Turkey is the one that holds the casus belli against my country.

2.There's no country in the E/Z (NOT ONE) which at a certain time didn't maipulate the numbers(even today), including Germany and France.

3.You manipulate the numbers too, plus you print new money-all you need is paper & your queen's face on it- like the americans do. NOOOOOOOOO that's not cheating when you do it.

4. We have better polititians? NO. ----->

[franknwalters]

@odalrich

5. You haven't heard of Vicky??? What, you didn't pay your subscription to "The Sun"?

6.I work until 23:00 sometimes at my office, but I can't ignore a YouTube's email saying I have an answer from you. I laugh at you REMEMBER?

7.I'm not a boy, YOU probably are which explains why your arguments are SO WEAK.

8.DON'T UNDERESTIMATE what you don't know. That goes for the Hellenic Forces. We've spent a great deal of money to insure no-threat from türkiye...and they're DAMN GOOD.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich ...brought from you ...

Do you want me to continue?

The fact here is that you spin arround the answers never giving a straight answer AND you keep opening new issues. Like the last one, that our "National Heritage that is crumbling down to pieces".

This is a hollow & outrageous argument. It's a LIE...

Do you really feel the need to use lies & excuses in this debate?

YOU'RE making it more obvious for everyone to see who is in the side of fairness and truth.

[odalrich]

@franknwalters A fictional example: Muslim kingdom of Granada, South of the Iberian Peninsula, year 1485, Spain doesn't exist. An English envoy reaches the kingdom of Granada and gets, legally or illegally, or simply steals a piece of a window of the palace of the Alhambra, he sails back to England. Centuries later this piece appears in a British museum. The Spanish government decides that this piece must be "returned" to Spain. In your opinion, which should be the end of this story?

[franknwalters]

@odalrich What YOU don't seem to understand is that we're NOT talking about a window, but about our NATIONAL HERITAGE.

This doesn't belong to a conqueror NOR to the one who came to an agreement with him. It BELONGS to the people who made this heritage.

It belongs to the ones that build, fought, won, lost, died, enslaved, won their freedom, but kept this heritage alive cause it was the only thing they had to lean on.

As for the existence of the Greek state, I answered you: "not as we know it".

[odalrich]

Trying to find excuses to skip your reply to my story? Well, let's say “marble engravings of verses from the Koran” OK?. It doesn't matter what our imaginary English envoy took, but the legal situation, could Spain claim the marble from Granada ?

“…belongs to the ones that build, fought, won, lost, died, enslaved, won their freedom, but kept this heritage alive cause it was the … …” This jingoistic diatribe will get you nowhere. It's just cheap demagogy to illiterate masses.

[franknwalters]

@odalrich & to get serious only a man with a poor brain(1), mental problems(2) and lack of integrity(3) would:

1. get here and expect not to debate with a greek(1)

2. turn the conversation to an irrelevant subject (my country's debt??) just to annoy his interlocutor(1+2+3)

3. speak with people he despires just to annoy them (normal people just avoid them) (1+2+3)

I could go on but talking to you requires a great effort...

Someone has to come down many levels to talk with you champ...

[odalrich]

@franknwalters ···/··· 2) You people should be tackling the serious problems affecting your country and not claiming things that, in any case, you'll never get. I’ve given you the reasons why the Marbles will stay where they are; read my posts again. Your insults are nothing more than an attempt to escape reality. Grow up, man! Farewell to you.  THE END

[franknwalters]

@odalrich MY INSULTS? Who turned the conversation to MY COUNTRY'S DEBT? ME? Who wrote "your country is indebted down to its bones" ? ME? HAS THE ABOVE got anything to do with whether the transaction WAS LEAGAL OR NOT? ...and you're trying to turn this against me ? YOU HIT BELOW THE BELT AND YOU'RE BLAMING ME? You are a miserable person man. I'm sure your family must be very sad when they think of you... I pity you... :(

[odalrich]

@franknwalters 1) I introduced the debt issue in the debate because there is a relationship between wanting to acquire a large collection of art and being unable to finance what you possess. The immoral terms imposed on Greece by the markets (they have insulted you, not me) have made you indebted to the bones. This, unfortunately, is the truth, not an insult on my part. If you've been led to believe that I have been malicious to you, I apologize. When debating issues, you mustn’t be so touchy.

[marianodeanquin]

Devuelvalen los tesoros a Grecia

[ProjectGreyX]

any artifacts that were taken from Greece need to be returned so fuck Britain and anyone else who has them in their possession shame on them and fuck them

[murray821]

Fuck the muslims with their nose removing FROM EVERY FUCKING historic building all over the world.

[MrChristopherneill]

@Alpekideus cutting is how you remove things from buildings. It is not a case of taking by force, he had some permission and a further document allowing the export from Piraeus- this from the Ottomans who had been the government for some 300 years.

The return if it is ever to happen needs the support of the British people and no amount of screaming and flaming is going to achieve that. it is not a case of bending over backwards, it is a case of being reasonable.

[MrChristopherneill]

Calling the British sons of bitches does not sound civilised.

The marbles were not stolen, they were taken by a man with permission to do it from the then rulers of Athens. The return of the marbles is only ever going to happen if there is a genuine friendship.

Abusive name calling dies not help. It also has to be faced that Greece's economy is in a shaky state and they need the support of the EU to get through it.

[i0anna2007]

@MrChristopherneill I do not think the British museum was willing to return them before the economic crisis or the name calling. Instead of expecting us to bend over to gain your support, why don't you return the marbles?: our economy would be very much supported by all the visitors that now have to visit your country!!!!!

[Alopekideus]

@MrChristopherneill Uh... cutting and taking by force sounds like they did it with permission? And there nowhere a thing like "genuine friendship" nowhere, it's all about money, that why the British stole them. Also, just because Greece is the only country shown with economic problems (not to mention the other countries that are not mentioned as much as Greece) and because EU is giving Greece loans so they get MORE money doesn't mean Greece has not the right to have them BACK.

[anthimike]

What a wonderful piece of work. Its a shame that we people from Greece are not able to produce work like this, for our legacy. Indeed we are really good on talking shit!

[ytalexomir]

The British were the last to have occupied the Parthenon. But what has caused the most damage to the temple is the Turkish occupation and the attack of the Venetians. They bombed the temple and he fell to pieces.

I'm inflectional endings to bring the sculptures to Greece. The looting of King stupid should not use a British museum, but help renovate the temple.

[marianoarenaza]

PIRATAS! DEVUELVAN TODAS LAS IDENTIDADES Y TESOROS QUE HAN ROBADO A EGIPTO Y GRECIA. LO QUE LOS BRITANICOS HACEN ES VANDALISMO!!! EL DESTINO DE ESAS PIESAS ES PUDRIRSE CON EL RESTO DEL EDIFICIO SI ES NECESARIO POR ASI LOS QUISIERON LOS GRIEGOS Y FUE CONSEBIDO CON FE Y MUCHO ESFUERZO. OJALA ATENAS ARREMETA CONTRA INGLATERRA

[KILLEDBYPAOK]

not only British thieves but British babrarians too...

[kyriacos40]

wow how wonderful my ancestors were you may take the objects,but you will never be associated to them.Only the gealous steel you have them,but you dont have the history that to Greece.I hope Greek people become closer to each other and realize thier country is thier identiy and how important it is to bring back thier econmy.

[vabilas28]

my heritage

[vabilas28]

the truth is that all these sculptures seem totally out of place in the Br. M. It s high time they were brought back

[vabilas28]

"removed" = barbarically stolen

[pitsimitsi]

BRING THEM BACK!!!

[GeniusHaydn]

Give it back to the people it belongs too!!!!!!!!!!!!Without the Greeks, Western culture would not exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sabbalonns]

@GeniusHaydn Sure the greeks were crazy amazing but they jacked stuff from earlier civilisations, just like we all do : )

[posilipos]

Τhis is absolutely astonishing!

Thank you very much!

[toontownkiddy]

@posilipos i cant dance

[makedonas86]

Give back the marbles you barbarians with no culture!!!

[Boryslav]

Amazing work, the light stune my eyes and HDRI and GI techniques shows a real artwork. By the way what´s the name of this song?

[d1versify]

u said if we build the museum ud give them back!now that we built it where are the marbles?

[ChiguireBipolar]

Incredible... inclusive a tear fall down of my eyes... SENCILLAMENTE INCREIBLE!, se me aguaron los ojos y todo de lo boquiabierto que me dejo

[MsScandal]

Very beautiful!

Thank you!

[EcheeMeechee]

The british steal everything. they steal art from Egypt, Greece, etc. they take over other countries (Africa) is there anything commendable about the Brtiish in history?

[tetkou]

Just give back what had always belonged to us, British Thieves!

[matrix49A]

@tetkou Agreed But also Greece should give back all the lands and spoils Greek armies took from others through history. I love it when Mexican wetback invaders demand California and other parts of America to be "given back" to them while speaking in the language of the conquistadors. I guess the Mexican Indians that the Spanish exterminated don't count. (P.S. Same goes for the American Indians who were always killing, raping and taking from each other.)

[adri1430]

@tetkou Well spoken!

[vaughangarrick]

@tetkou thank goodness the British looked after these masterpieces for posterity to enjoy when the Greeks just let it go to ruin

[mrntser]

Indeed, awsome! Touching, true, technically proficient. Gongratulations!

[horsebackarchers]

Timoleon Filimon was first Greek asking to given back the marbles! Many decades after, same asked by Melina! Unfortunately administration circumstances in present-day Greece don't agree to this claim. marbles r.i.p. in the rooms of British Museum!

[BillyMambo]

astonishing. british sons of bitches give our marbles back

[Orangeflava]

that is all CGI? wow!

[yuliezik]

If only the references to the British Museum did not exist...

[JuLiA7TH]

I totally agree with that.

[elenoragr]

superbus!!!

[Airlight]

Very Impressive, the lighting of the outside at around 0:55 is incredible and extremely realistic.