#7 How can God divorce if "he hates" it?

[Krissy19731]

@supersportrsz28 I think your basic belief that divorce is unforgiveness or selfishness is false and leads to the rejection of divorce as an acceptable means to end a marriage. I have forgiven my ex-spouse, and done the most loving thing I could - divorce him. It means he has no more opportunity to sin by abuse. Separation does not end abuse - it escalates it. As long as you are married, you are at risk. Ask anyone who has been in this situation. God says, sever yourself from evil. 

[LamourDeLucie]

This is all very overwhelming. My husband left me for adultery. I committed this adultery 10 years. I was 22. I used to be a nagging wife. I had lots of hurt growing up and took them out on him. He no longer even returns my text messages. He told me he has the right to divorce me. I repented but sometimes I feel like the Bible is not clear. In some verses it tells husbands to love their wives to the way Christ loves the church. Next, it says adulterers will never inherit the earth.

[playmobible]

@LamourDeLucie You can't go on whipping yourself about it now. You made your mistake & you live with it. Adultery is not the unforgivable sin, but you can't try to cling on to something that is shattered beyond repair. You have to let go now and forgive yourself, & move on as your ex has done. You can't blame him if he feels that he couldn't trust you again, because it is a sin of deceit. If he has married another person, you can't take him back anyway (Deut. 24.4)...

[playmobible]

@LamourDeLucie He has made his choice, & you have to accept his right to do so. The wonder of God is that both you and he can start again individually, and the lessons learned from last time around, will be most helpful to you.

[playmobible]

You question assumes that divorce is a sin - it isn't always. A spouse may not need to be forgiven for divorcing you if she/he had good grounds - God needed no forgiveness for divorcing unfaithful Israel. On the other hand God chose not to divorce Judah, and she was able to return to him. The Key: follow the Holy Spirit's guidance.

[supersportrsz28]

I know as a father myself that there is nothing my child could do to sever my Love for them and the relationship we have and that is how marriage should be according to the Love our Father has for us. We pick and choose how we Love and God clearly defines Love in 1 Corinthians 13. If we are to have that Love within then why would we choose divorce instead of forgiveness. Just doesn't add up? divorce=death but love=life(marriage) what do you say? I love you but we are divorcing?

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 Really? Nothing? What if he murdered one of your other children? What if he hated Christ? What if you cannot love your child without hating your spouse or God? Have you not read God's rebuke "Should you help the wicked, and love those who hate the Lord?!" or Jesus' warning in Luke 14.26 "if anyone comes to me and does not hate...wife and children...such a person cannot be my disciple". You have got to start being worthy of Christ.

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 You have got to be able to put your love of God ahead of your love for any family relationship, otherwise your show yourself unworthy. The very Israelites who loved their children (and themselves) ahead of God, were the same ones who ended up devouring their own children! What are you going to do when love for God and family clash? I.e., you cannot love one without hating the other.

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 It’s important to keep in mind Amos 4.12 after Israel had turned from serving the Lord. Israel still claimed to worship the true God, but in fact turned to worship God in the way THEY wanted to serve Him, rather than the way HE wanted to be served. They worshipped the true God through idols and through priests that God had not chosen. God tried to correct them by: making them hunger (Amos.6), but they didn’t return;…

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 …through God stunting their crops and withholding water (Amos 4.7), but they still didn’t return; through plagues of diseases and locust against their food, but they didn’t return; through sickness, war against their strongest and finest, through stenches and stinks, but they didn’t return; through sending massive disasters, and then saving them by the skin of their teeth, but they still didn’t return. Nothing worked.

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 I’ve seen God try and fail to correct those who refuse to give up worshiping these gods of marriage, and false idols of marriage “covenants” and “unconditional-love”. Having tried all that, God will then say to you, “Prepare to meet your God”, or as Jesus said, “Repent or perish!” In Israel’s case that meant they faced total devastation. They were taken away into exile with hooks in their jaws from their homeland, and made prisoners where they died! They never ever returned.

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 We are preaching a false gospel if we think love & forgiveness is the only answer to have people turn back to God. Sometimes a loving God must use very strong punishments against His own. Love is not the only answer to save. It’s important for those Christians, who have followed after these idols of marriage as I mentioned above, to repent before it is too late, & God runs out of even painful half-measures in order for them to see the light. Repentance without actions is dead!

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 You are forgetting about repentance - if your brother sins against you and then "if" he repents you must forgive Him. Why wouldn't you? True repentance is a stunning and beautiful thing (See Judah's repentance in Gen 44.33). But what if Judah did not repent - what if he took his silver and left Benjamin in slavery when tested. No reconciliation would have happened.

[supersportrsz28]

Isn't our example through Jesus and how He lived life here on earth. Was Jesus not a servant never self-seeking for Himself but purely seeking to guide others through Love and self-sacrifice even unto death on the cross for us. "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." In being filled with the Holy Spirit we are filled with truth, faith, and most importantly Love. divorce is equal to unforgiveness or selfishness depending on the circumstances.

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 But God doesn't always forgive. Sometime you have to pay for your sins. Mercy is shown because of ignorance ie., you "know not" (See 1 Timothy 1.13 "I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief"). There is no forgiveness for knowingly sinning - you have to pay in full - and that can be painful. Ouch! Divorce results from sins like these. Don't you love God! Both merciful AND just! Gotta love Him!

[supersportrsz28]

@playmobible That just doesn't make sense because if justice was called for then everytime abuse, neglect, abandonment, adultery, or sin because sin is sin in Gods eyes happened; then anytime these sins took place divorce would occur. God is just and Gods consequences are completely different from mans consequences. Man tends to claim justice and call it consequences knowing Gods will is completely separate.

[supersportrsz28]

@playmobible And yes, God is Good no matter what knowing He loves us enough to send His only son to die on the cross. Brother, this has been a good conversation but we just disagree on what it means to commit in a marriage. I see marriage as for life according to God and you see marriage as until the contract is broken. I believe we both agree that repenting should result in forgiveness according to God. Love you brother but I believe what God has joined together no man should separate.

[supersportrsz28]

@playmobible That still isn't answering the question of forgiveness according to Gods word. In divorcing are we not clearly stating that our hearts are in a state of unforgiveness considering we(I personally commited to God) stood before God and said to Him and our spouses "til death do us part?" Your beliefs lead me to believe that God can divorce us for the adultery we all commiting against Him in sin on a daily basis. when we say til death do us part what were we staying to God?

[supersportrsz28]

Forgive others as God Himself forgives you. Is that not scripture. Do not hold onto bitterness, rage, anger, but show compassion, love, kindness. Hope, Faith, and Love, but the greatest of these is Love. So what your saying is there should not have been a celebration upon the prodigal son(spouse) returning home, but rather justice served to him. I Love You brother, just as God loves me and that is the Holy Spirit working within. 

[supersportrsz28]

What? Sometimes to love God we must hate? So God is Love and if we have God inside of us we are Love. God commands us to Love Him first and in Loving Him our second command is to Love others? Commitment (Obedience) to God is to Love others. So how am I confusing Loving God with Loving others. How exactly did God love us enough again? How exactly does God forgive us? Are we not commanded to fight for our spouses, brothers, sisters, children as God says through His word.

[supersportrsz28]

I'm not presuming anything. God's will is for marriage to last for life. Luke 17:3-4 If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.

[supersportrsz28]

@playmobible Everything I believe is from scripture and every word used is directly from our God breathed word just as you are already aware of. I'm sorry you don't agree with what God has shown me but I respectfully disagree that divorce is Gods choice. I love you either way brother and one day God will show us the absolute truth. May God bless you and again, may God always show you mercy over sacrifice just as His word says. Love... James.

[supersportrsz28]

My name is James or more importantly, your brother in Christ. Are we not speaking of the same thing in believing and obeying Christ? My faith is built upon the solid foundation of God brought under the cross and helf firm by the blood of Jesus. Maybe I lost what commitment meant? God is always faithful whether we are or not, that is proven by forgiveness for our sins over and over and over and over. That is our example to live by. The two greatest commandments say it all.

[supersportrsz28]

Good thing I'm not talking about a contract... I'm speaking of a covenant commitment I made with my God and my spouse just as we all do and that commitment is for life not til my spouse breaks the "contract" as you say.... But the great thing is we will all stand before God and know the absolute truth one day. I choose to Love God and to Love one another as God explains Love in 1 Corinthians 13. How exactly do you forgive in Love and Divorce?

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying your marriage contact and your electricity contract are of the same value. Break your electricity contract and the power company will only cut of your electricity. Break your divinely witnessed marriage contract and the consequences are far more severe - God will pay you back too. But it would be silly to claim 'breach of contract' if the power company turned off your power when you hadn't paid the bill for a year! Got it?

[supersportrsz28]

Remember Jesus who died on the cross in obedience to the Father for us all... Sounds like kindness, compassion, forgiveness, and most importantly Love.. Sounds like unconditional love and marriage to me.

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 "that whosoever believes in Him" (John 3.16) sounds like a slightly condition statement doesn't it? "If you love me, you will obey me" sounds like our love of Him is conditional also. Go back to school buddy. Start listening to the Holy Spirit again. You faith is on a weak foundation and will not hold up in a crisis.

[supersportrsz28]

There are many truths and Hosea is one of those truths. Another truth is Jesus became a "sacrifice" for us through His obedience to the Father. You believe He was praying the night before because it was His choice. Jesus made the sacrifice out of Love for His father just like we are, so that our same Father can do the impossible through our trust and belief. We are thankful for Jesus' sacrifice but we aren't willing to do it for our spouses believing in what God can do. God is ABLE.

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 God always forgave the Northern tribes of Israel when she repented and proved it by throwing away her idols (but not before). See Judges 10.14 as an example of Israel accepting God's "Only one husband" terms. Gomer also accepted Hosea's terms (3.3). God still divorced Israel when she later became hardhearted and refused to leave her lovers/idols. And God never returned to her again (Deut 24.4). That contract ended. So how on earth does that help your case, my confused friend?

[supersportrsz28]

@playmobible I'm not confused at all brother, we just disagree. And I'm not pleading a case because I have faith in God healing any situation in a marriage. God so loved the world that He made another way by sending His only Son to die on the cross. That is God's Love and simple truth. And the only unforgiven sin I know of is not accepting Christ as Lord and savior. If a marriage covenant is made God will always prefer marriage til death over divorce in any circumstance known. God is Love.

[playmobible]

Look, I can soften my tone if you get down to brass tacks. Has your spouse left you and you are clinging to this bad theology because you want your wife back? This unholy fever must come from experience - to deny or misinterpret scripture because it doesn't suit your wishes is not clever brother. What is your situation? Reply in private if you like.

[supersportrsz28]

@playmobible I have grown closer to God through my trials and God has shown me what I speak of through these trials and I have no clever intentions but only Gods truth. God says we are to stand in the gap for those trapped in sin, not to throw them away because they are blinded by satan. I am speaking on family believing God's great plan for our lives and divorce isn't a part of that. If we don't stand in the gap with God then who will.

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 You don't have God's truth. You have the devil's great lie - that 'divorce is not ever a possibility in cases of broken vows'. God himself took this divorce option and it was not sin. It may be divorce is never the right option for you, but it may well be for one of your friends or family. You have got to have a better answer than "stay and suffer". You cannot say "wait for a miracle" in presumption when God is actually calling them out. You need the Holy Spirit's guidance.

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 Your faith has to real faith and not PRESUMPTION. Presumption is when you presume something is the will of God with out bothering to inquire of Him! Your whole thinking seems not so much based on scripture, but on an experience. Did the Holy Spirit speak to you? What did the Holy Spirit say to you exactly that makes you think divorce is always wrong (even though God did it)? I.e., God telling you to stick with a marriage does not invalidate all righteous divorces.

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 You are believing amiss if you think 'God always heals marriages'. News flash: He doesn't. God's will may be for divorce and safely. Promoting that lie results in Christian spouses being murdered, & children being abused. Sometimes the reason spouses cling to disaster marriages is due to a lack of faith in God's provision and image. Have you not read what the Apostle Paul says to spouses clinging to imaginary hopes "How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband?...".

[supersportrsz28]

@playmobible I believe in separation during extreme cases but No where do I see Christ divorcing His Church. It doesn't happen because Christ never will divorce the Church no matter how much adultery, abuse, Sin we do to Him. And I agree repenting is the key to marriage restoration but I do not agree that God says we are to move on when one spouse is hard against repenting. Isn't prayer the key in changing others through God. Who is the divorce for other than the one who chooses it.

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 Remember the guy who didn't wear his wedding attire? Remember the guy who buried his talent? Remember the guy refused to show mercy as he had been shown? Remember the ten virgins who didn't keep their lamps buring? Remember the ones who called Jesus "Lord, Lord". Sounds like divorce to me.

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 Look - if you break your marriage contact, the terms no longer apply to your wife. Think about any peace treaty between nations for example. If you commit adultery, neglect or abuse her your wife has the option to leave you and marry another man. So watch it buddy! You marriage contract was not a blank sheet of paper. The vows count. God might say to her "Dump that drop-kick of a man" as he did with other unfaithful people - see Isaiah 22.19 or Psalm 109.8.

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 Christ gave himself into the hands of evil men only because it was the WILL of God for him to do so. Moses, when faced with being raised up on a stake by the Egyptians, ran away in accordance with the will of God ("by faith Moses fled" Heb 11.27). It is only God's will that makes suffering worthwhile. Unnecessary suffering does not benefit God/us. God's will might include divorcing a stubborn rebel spouse or suffering for His glory. Why is that so hard to acknowledge?

[playmobible]

Have you listened to this series at all? God divorced Israel because of ISRAEL's hardheartedness. God himself sought a divorce & did not sin nor was it hardhearted for Him to seek it! It is you who have no mercy by telling spouses to sacrifice themselves in abusive and neglectful marriages without any thought for the innocent. You equally have no justice by not calling monster spouses to pay for their deeds(Prov1715). Divorce is a fantastic rescue allowance given by God to save innocent spouses.

[supersportrsz28]

@playmobible Any true believers is going to have faith that God will move all those mountains you speak of knowing God will do the impossible as long as we believe. And no I don't disagree with separation for extreme cases as you speak of but our weapon of prayer is more than powerful enough for God to change our spouses and build our marriages on solid foundation. God has called us to a higher standard. Jesus set the example on the cross for us to follow through sacrifice.

[playmobible]

Brother, you are not listening to the scriptures but left-wing Christian propaganda and Christian culture. You magnify the conditional, non-biblical, vow "to death do us part", but ignore the Biblical vows "with my body I thee worship", "to nourish and cherish", and "forsaking all others". What was the point of taking your vows if breaking them has no meaning? You are cruel and hide it under a facade of "unconditional love". God is real love - not that! May God give you a good kick up the pants!

[supersportrsz28]

And I believe unrepentant sin can have consequences but Joseph exercised Love over justice. Homer was commanded to Love his wife no matter what even to the point of buying her back according to what God wanted and that is the Love He was expressing to Israel. He showed it even more by sending His son to die on the cross.  Jesus set the example of God's Love by being obedient even when He asked for another way because that is obedience to the father. God is Love..

[playmobible]

@supersportrsz28 Glad you mentioned Joseph! Joseph never returned to his evil-doing brothers: his brothers had to return and bow before HIM - even though Joseph had been Ruler for years! Even then Joseph spoke “harshly” to his brothers, imprisoned one, &TESTED their repentance with the silver cup. If you forgive without testing repentance you are a big fool! Grow up, fellow Christian, & be like Joseph! No more of this wishy-washy shepherding that allows wolves among the congregation! (Ezk 34.19)

[supersportrsz28]

@playmobible You are right but I also mentioned Homer and the Love he showed Gomer commanded by God is unconditional love.... And again I'm speaking of our COMMITMENT during marriage to God which we glading state during the ceremony "til death do us part." Maybe preachers should change the ceremony til I decide whether you have repented or not. Isn't 1 Corinthians 13 our commandment for love in how we are to Love God and others without question through faith. God is Love....

[supersportrsz28]

Maybe you should read where I said the spouse or children do not seek the divorce.. I agree separation is necessary if the spouse is unrepentent but we all know the God clearly states in the bible that He prefers mercy over sacrifice. And divorce is clearly stated in the bible as being a result of a hardened heart or lack of unforgiveness and mercy. And looking at history God sent His son as a sacrifice to provide a way for our sins to be forgiven because of Love. God can do the impossible.

[supersportrsz28]

But the simple truth of God is that He wishes for no one to divorce just like He wishes for no one to commit adultery......... God never stops loving us and Christ would never divorce His bride so why do we? So what is divorce saying to your spouse if it is the final choice? If the children and the spouse don't choose divorce then how can divorce not be a sin of unforgiveness, anger, bitterness, and hard heatedness

[playmobible]

The simple truth is that God did divorce the Northern Tribe of Israel (Jeremiah 3.9) and that there comes a time when God doesn't forgive, but put's his "axe to the root of the tree" (See Luke 13.9). We have to be the same with our forgiveness - God doesn't forgive the unrepentant and neither should we - forgiveness or mercy can be a sin (2 Chronicles 19.2, 1 Kings 20:31). Get some back bone into your Christianity!