Prof. Michael Baum Interview (2/6) - Richard Dawkins

[pleex]

Title should say Dr. Michael Baum - He is a physician(Medical Oncologist)

[Generalscorpio]

Interestingly somewhere around 2:20 he mentions paranormal phenomena and the way in which the closer you study them the less there is to them, has some parallels with quantum theory in that the more you read of quantum theory the less it seems to make sense to most people yet Dawkins would happily back up quantum theory and use that as an example of scientific endeavor whereas he would never consider the study of the paranormal to have a similar worth, even if it were done scientifically.

[TomFynn]

@Generalscorpio I surmise that the good doctor was speaking metaphorically. While the mechanisms of QM are far removed from the macroscopic world or mind has evolved to cope with, the predictions and equation of QM are precise, and testable. In fact they have been tested again and again to an astonishing degree of precision.

The predictions of claims of parapsychology when tested so far have always turned out to be bull...

[DrNancyMalik]

Real is scientific homeopathy. It cures even when Conventional Allopathic Medicine (CAM) fails. Evidence-based modern homeopathy is a nano-medicine bringing big results for everyone

[MrManumona]

Dr. Dawkins is -as usually quite out of his league on this area -which is quite alien to his academic expertise- trying to debunk anything that does not fit into his schematic view of the Universe. The difference between he and many of us is that our view includes his. He has apparently transformed himself into a a new Torquemada from the other side around. Professor Baum cannot judge a medicine system that he has not studied at all

[issanlao]

@MrManumona

Show some evidence or just.....shut up!

[MrManumona]

@issanlao What evidence are they showing? What evidence are YOU showing? Who are you to ask for "evidence"? Who are you to tell me to shut up? You are disguising your brutality and sheer ignorance with "military" orders. You behave like a brute savant.Perhaps you are.

[HeavyweightThinker]

@MrManumona Since homeopathy contradicts any physical law and has no effect if you overview the overviews of the trials, then it is your position that is untenable. YOu are just babbling basically.

[andromidius]

@MrManumona Its not a medical system at all. If it was, it would be testable and proven to be effective, and thus be part of modern medicine. As it is, any independant tests have failed completely. Thus it isn't medicine. At best its a ritual to try and make people feel better. At worst its a complete scam designed to take money from gullible and ignorant people.

[MrManumona]

@andromidius The question, sir, is very simple: Are you a medical doctor? If you are not, then youa are just not qualified to judge in this matter. BTH, and hust in case, I am a medical doctor.

[Anon12356]

4:51

"the universe"

I doubt that, more like planet earth.

[TretasYT]

The video description says "The discussion covers alternative and complimentary medicines [...]" - You probably mean "complementary", not "complimentary".

[ryko26]

what a very interesting and pleasant man this Baum chap seems.

[ilkinond]

No - Julius Cesaer's piss could not have reached out to the entire universe, because even if it had set off from his bladder at the speed of light it would not yet have reached water in farther flung parts of the universe - that cannot be right.

[nothingnesswithouten]

I think Prof. Baum meant to say "in the whole world" (i.e. Earth) instead of the "whole universe".

[MopDMTBARTL]

Homeopathy is FAR better than modern science of DRUG COMPANIES - synthetic chemicals DON'T WORK. Nature is always the best. your number one medicine is the best herb of them all - CANNABIS!!!

i do zero over the counter drugs or prescription pills - nothing but NATURE. Whole Foods. Fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, meat in moderation - cannabis!

wake up people. wake the fuk up!

go here:

truthknowledge. com

[om3g488]

Unless you are a doctor, QUIT GIVING MEDICAL ADVICE! It is irresponsible and dangerous to give people advice on which you are not an athority.

[ashbash986]

Sorry :(

[Nemesis000000]

@om3g488 Deepak Chopra is a doctor

[rgs11]

@om3g488 Nah, they should just be honest about their credentials.  Experts disagree; the important thing is not to misrepresent your experience/expertise.

[Barkspawn]

Yeah, water is a great cure for cancer. Oh, wait.

[hymnofashes]

You are full of shit.

[adamb0000]

@MopDMTBARTL did you not hear the bit which says it is called alternative medicine as it doesnt work as well. if it worked better - then it would just be the main medicine rather than alternative.

[StevIestallion]

Nothing but nature eh? Ricin? Anthrax? Dog sh!t? polonium? neutron stars?

Natural doesn't mean good.

Which natural anaesthetic are you going to want when you need an operation? And which natural antibiotic?

[Retsam19]

His comment about the universe was wrong.

[DitzyStephanie]

I love the comment he makes at 2:20.

[Kingfillins]

It is an open secret within the drugs industry that most of its products are ineffective in most patients but this is the first time that such a senior drugs boss has gone public. His comments come days after it emerged that the NHS drugs bill has soared by nearly 50 per cent in three years, rising by £2.3bn a year to an annual cost to the taxpayer of £7.2bn. GSK announced last week that it had 20 or more new drugs under development that could each earn the company up to $1bn (£600m) a year.

[PostalNation]

All you sinners, LISTEN UP! I'm only going to say this once. The truth, as revealed in the Gospel According To Sheryl Crow, is self evident and you shall bow before it!

Crow, Chapter 12, Verse 2:

"All I want to do is have some fun."

[SlyStonedFunkyMonk]

BELIEEEEEVE!

[htrizzle]

I laughed...

[53iBro]

@PostalNation Praise be to Crow!

[josealonsoleon]

Haaa, this is very interesting. I had a friend that was a fundamentalist christian Evangelist to be precise. He terrorized his family with his beliefs and dominated his family with is patriarchate tyranny. He has two daughters, one surrendered to her dad's lifetime terror and accepted to live in the shadow of her husband which received her dad's approval. The other daughter rebelled and left home to live a life of non conventional religious beliefs. But became an homeopathic specialist..hahaha

[stevesurv]

It is interesting listening to a couple of incredibly smart individuals discuss something of which they have no idea of what they are talking about.

[falotnek]

Enlightment is the key to ultimate freedom. Not everyone though likes losing control over the masses. Religion is not some cute idea for happy people.

It is about control, it is about money.

It is brainwashing, no matter how you twist the facts. The what if`s are irrelevant. If there is no evidence of any being called God, then there is no being called God. Applying faith as something equally valuable as human resources is plain stupidity.

[banditbutterfly]

Brilliantly put.

[chngirl]

falotnek should take some homeopathic medicine.. he is very sick and blabbering..

[bdf2718]

"Do no harm." Ummm, yeah right, but selling useless crap causes harm. Die, homeopathists, die.

[chngirl]

I was cured by homeopathy...

[bdf2718]

You believe that. I believe you weren't. Where do we go from here?

Oh yeah, double-blind controlled scientific trials, rather than personal opinion. Guess what the scientific trials show. Just guess.

[chngirl]

If you don't believe it's doesn't matter. The fact is that I was cured by homeopathy. I am not proving or disproving anything. I am just saying what happened to me. I got results.

[bdf2718]

Your condition went away. Which it might have done if you'd rubbed a frog on your head and buried it a crossroads at midnight.

"Getting results" doesn't count as scientific proof unless double-blind controlled experiments show strong statistical correlations.

It's our best approach to understanding reality. And when that approach says homeopathy is a pile of steaming shite then it probably is.

[chngirl]

I don't know if you try rubbing frogs on your head. I didn't. I am not offering my cure as the scientific proof for Homeopathy.

If the 'Medical Scientists' want to disprove Homeopathy and abolish it once and for all, let them disprove it.

[bdf2718]

They HAVE disproved it. Many times over. There are some SLIGHT benefits by having somebody willing to spend an hour talking to you about your problems. The treatments themselves are worthless. If GPs could spend that time talking to you, they'd get better effects.

You believe otherwise. Your experience is not that of a double-blind controlled scientific trial. Which doesn't mean I'm not happy that it HAPPENED to work for you, just that there's no way I'd recommend it to anyone else.

[chngirl]

if THEY HAVE disproved it, how come they are still able to practice homeopathy. How come is it still legal?

I am not recommending Homeopathy to others. I am cured by it. For others, I would tell them to first go for the English medicine. If they cannot do anything, then try alternative medicine.

[bdf2718]

How come it is still legal is because legislation is often tainted by special interests. Some people make a lot of money from homeopathy so put pressure on politicians to keep it legal.

Plus the law, in general, does not legislate against stupidity or unfairness. Somebody buys a painting from you for pennies that you've always hated and then sells it for millions, that's tough. Under English law you have no remedy for being ill-informed and not knowing it was a Rembrandt.

[chngirl]

Even there's a lot of English medicine that doesn't guarantee any improvement and often people suffer from side effects. We just have to take it with caution. It doesn't mean that those who take English medicine (the regular medicine, i mean) are stupid to try those chemical tablets, etc even after they know the side-effects. Chemotherapy doesn't really cure cancer, but people still take that painful procedure. Are they stupid?

[bdf2718]

There is a lot of conventional big pharma medicine that is inefficacious and harmful because they're lying bastards. There is some alternative medicine that it appears may work (like vitamins and magnesium supplements). Even doctors refuse chemo.

All the evidence says homeopathy doesn't work, apart from the placebo effect of having somebody talk to you about your problems for an hour. I'll do that for half the cost and sell you a bottle of plain water, and it will do just as much good.

[chngirl]

/// Even doctors refuse chemo. All the evidence says homeopathy doesn't work, apart from the placebo effect of having somebody talk to you about your problems for an hour ////

That sounds like a Psychiatrist... lol....

[bdf2718]

Not ALL doctors refuse chemo, but those who have looked at the stats usually do. Magnesium supplements, SOME say (no dual-blind tests I know of) MAY be better.

And yes, a psychiatrist would probably be just as effective as a homeopath (if he gave you a bottle of water at the end). Or a friend. But so few of us have real friends we have to pay for substitutes. Kinda sad, eh?

[StevIestallion]

Your ignorance of the basics is embarrassing. The fact that you call conventional medicines 'chemicals' in a pejorative way shows your lack of understanding. Everything you eat, drinkand breath made of 'chemicals'. Practically all of your opinions are fatally flawed. Please do not spread them to vulnerable people until you educate yourself.

[chngirl]

Your ignorance of alternative medicine is simply mind-boggling. Your prejudice is enough for me to throw your comments inside a drainage. Please don't open your pothole mouth and stink this place.

[StevIestallion]

You don't know anything of my knowledge of alternative medicine, and just because you think you were cured by some homeopathy doesn't make you anything other than deluded.

There's no such thing as alternative medicine. Medicine either works or it doesn't. If it works then it is simply 'medicine'.

[chngirl]

// Medicine either works or it doesn't. If it works then it is simply 'medicine'. //

That's the biggest ignorant definition for medicine that I have heard. I thought you didn't know anything about alternative medicine. Now you have admitted that you know nothing about any medicine. Don't talk like a lobbyist.

[StevIestallion]

Welcome to medicine. You'll hear it a lot more.

I can't wait until you come into my hospital. You will be welcome to refuse all the evil chemicals. We have some nice strips of leather you can bite on when the pain gets bad.

[chngirl]

//We have some nice strips of leather you can bite on when the pain gets bad. //

ha ha ha... What kind of kinky hospital do you work for? Thanks for admitting that your hospital sucks and showing light on your knowledge on 'medicine'.

[marsCubed]

Gulp, well I am on the side of the evil chemicals, you can put the leather strap down now and walk away slowly. It is terrifying that such levels of ignorance exist in this day and age, some people appear to be living in the dark ages when spirits and scary demons hid in the shadows cast by their religions.

Holy water has passed it's expiry date.

Sadly, to make some people healthy, often their 'upstairs department' needs to be fixed as well as their hairy evolved ape bodies.

[bebop7c2]

If it works someones going to sell it, if it doesn't it labeled herbal and it works like a Placebo.

[ananiasacts]

"That's the biggest ignorant definition for medicine that I have heard."

How about giving us a better definition of medicine since you feel you know better.

[dreamsofredspring]

"There's no such thing as alternative medicine. Medicine either works or it doesn't. If it works then it is simply 'medicine'. "

So placebo is medicine too then?

[StevIestallion]

>"So placebo is medicine too then? "

That is a very valid question. There is no doubting the power of the placebo effect. And the sexier and more extravangant the 'medicine', the better.

For it to be classed as medicine it needs to work more than placebo. So no, placebo isn't medicine.

But in the absence of medicine as an option, I admit placebo may be better than nothing... (assuming you can afford it and are ignorant enough to not realise it's just a placebo - which would ruin the effect!)

[OMFGNONONO]

i understand what they are talking about is important but this is putting me to sleep...

[Dorfkanal]

The meta-trial is known as 'Egger-study'. 110 studies on homeopathy were scrutinized and summarized. Homeopathy showed no effect at all. But still, people who want to believe, they keep believing. They just ignore the evidence or try to twist it by spreading lies.

[dmlled]

for real, the values of the Enlightment are under attack today

[UncleBoratagain]

It is very intellectually honest of Prof. Dawkins to even suggest that homeopathic 'compounds' are worth investigation. That this alternative approach to healing involves a spiritual or para-religious process should alert the rational to its complete pointlessness.

[rollsthepaul]

You don't have to shove good ideas down people's throats, they will steal them from you.