I understand your complaints and you are right. But I'd be more worried that your not bothered that a game lets you carry a bounty of weapons because let's be honest the average human could carry 3 tops without them becoming a HUGE pain in the ass. That always bothered me because I can't help thinking" where am I keeping them"....
You have problems with "unrealistic fantasy weapons" and yet I don't see you calling for the banning of fireballs. When you can literally suck out a man's soul from 30 feet away realism has kinda already flown the coup don't you think? Banning spiked chains won't solve that.
@butterflyfurball I want the real world elements of a game to reflect the real world. The fantasy elements I don't worry about so long as they are internally consistent. I don't want cows that climb trees or normal dogs that fly nor do I want spiked chains.
Average human heights, weights and max ages always bothered me in fantasy games. To me they reflect average human of today not of the time period from which they are inspired.
Is there some game mechanic that would explain why the weights are a bit off? For instance (I am just making this up now, I'm not stating that this is the case) if a two-handed sword is situationally extremely useful to such an extent that it would be silly to not carry one around even if it is not the main weapon of choice for the character, it would be - from a game mechanic point of view - logical to make it heavier in order to deter such behaviour. Any ideas?
@apanapane I don't like that method of balance. If a character wants to carry around an absurdly large selection of weapons, I would let them. I would also make sure they *knew* they were carrying them around. I would make their life difficult. Balance it out with role-playing rather than mechanics.
Thank you so much for covering this topic. As a student of HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) I can confirm what you said. In fact, your example of a 7 pound sword is on the extreme end of things. I was able to handle a 4 foot bastard sword made circa 1500 and it felt like there was next to nothing in my hands. The balance was better than the best modern replica I've held.
Once again, thank you for this. It bothers the crap out of me too.
Oh & polearm/staff/spear damage isn't high enough.
Hey tetsubo, I was bothered by the rules for crafting weapons and armor, and how a pound of a material is wildly different when it is considered to be material for crafting. My players ran across some sky metal in Pathfinder, and they wanted to know how much stuff they could make from it. I really couldn't give them a good answer because the price per pound didn't seem to jive with the price of material to craft objects. Any thoughts?
@murphysborounderdark Are they planning on using the material in a pure form or as an alloy? One pound of metal would make a short sword for example quite easily or a couple of daggers. As an alloy, you might get anywhere from 2 - 3 times that. I don't remember what star metal off the top of my head.
@tetsubo57 Im running them through the Second Darkness Campaign, but updating it to Pathfinder RPG. The book describes the metal as being as strong as iron, but weighing half as much. It has two price entries for the metal - one for market price per pound, and one for how much additional cost a weapon or armor made from the material should cost. The don't jive really. I assume that the additional cost was consumed in reagents and the fact that this stuff needs to be smelted in quality workshop.
@murphysborounderdark My question really is, what can I use as a standard to tell me how much material I need to make a weapon or armor, not just the value of that material. I love it when the players craft like this, but it pains me that the rules get so sketchy when the players take the time to RP gathering the materials themselves.
Why not send a list of all of the weapon weights to wizards of the coast and say.
Please in the future could you use these weights I have all of the weights of these weapons even to "scale" with time period metallurgy.
You maybe surprised with a response of thank you and maybe you might find your name in the next D&D edition with under all of the various special thanks.
There's a pretty good reason for the weights of weapons that you're forgetting about. Changing the weight of a weapon just because that's what it weighs in real life would completely destroy the balance of the game. The reason they weigh more is due to the simple fact that you can carry as many of them as you want as long as you can hold the weight unlike in real life where you run out of places to carry them on yourself. Weapons need to have certain weights to preserve the balance of the game.
@ZedekOfLP101 In 32 years I have never used encumbrance rules. If someone tries to carry to many things, I just say, 'No'. Problem solved. I run the game, the game does not run me.
@ZedekOfLP101 Because weapons are a central part of my study. And the most basic reference would show game developers that they are wrong on almost every count. It bothers me. It isn't hard to get this right. And yet they have failed to do that for 30+ years.
@tetsubo57 I understand that. They're not failing to get anything "right" due to what I originally mentioned. The weights are what they are for the sake of game balance. You mentioned how many weapons aren't going to weigh 15 pounds, which is true, but in this game you don't want someone to be able to carry around 30 of them due to the fact that they have an inventory where said weapon isn't sheathed on the person, just an imaginary space to store it for later use.
And at the level you can afford 30 swords, you can afford a portable hole. Making this 'balance' mechanic moot. It's simply poor research on the part of the designers.
@tetsubo57 That's the point. The game prevents it through rules via game balance so DMs don't HAVE to say "hey that's absurd quit doing that". Hence my entire argument.
@ZedekOfLP101 But it's an incredibly, mind-numbingly DUMB means of achieving said 'balance'. Really dumb. They present real world items as these completely unreal objects. For no reason. It is baffling. If I owned a gaming company and someone said, 'We want to balance item ownership by making things absurdly heavy', I would fire them on the spot. Dumb like that is dangerous. I think it is far more likely that they just only held prop weapons & never opened a reference book. Occam's razor.
@tetsubo57 In-game method of weighing items is not equal to pounds or any real-world terms of weight measurement. Hence why no weapon's weight is "realistic" yet every flintlock pistol and its retard step cousin happens to be "just right" as you claim. You don't absurdly nail a certain weapon category's weight and then absolutely fail on another's. Fantasy role-playing game etc.
@ZedekOfLP101 Except that the firearms weights are *right*. Why? Because the designers can go pick one up readily. They do not have access to combat ready melee weapons. Guns are familiar to modern people while swords are not. It makes perfect sense that they get the gun weights right. They *could* get the melee weapon weights right if they chose. They simply don't choose to do so. Which is annoying seeing as how common & important they are in the game.
@tetsubo57 No, no they're not. You said yourself that the melee weapons are way off yet all firearms are dead on? That doesn't add up by any stretch of the imagination and the reasoning is obvious; it's a fantasy role-playing game and the method of weight measurement is fictional. Firearms having "correct" weights is a mere coincidence and it's easier to get a hold of melee weapons than firearms due to obvious firearm laws (which applies much moreso to those not in the USA of course).
@ZedekOfLP101 I'm talking about the designers of the game. The people who write the rules. Do you know how easy it is to get your hands on a gun in the US? How common they are? How ubiquitous? And how HARD it is to get your hands on a flamberge, glaive, pike or mace? Most Americans haven't ever even SEEN one of these things outside a film. It's familiarity, plain & simple. Guns are common, melee weapons rare. The former are correctly weighed & the latter incorrectly.
@tetsubo57 Illegally sure it's easy to get a gun. The same thing can be done for the weapons you listed except much easier due to no waiting period, background checks or anything. You're not looking in the right places
@ZedekOfLP101 Illegal to get a gun in AMERICA? You can buy them at Wal-Mart! I can WALK to a location where it is legal to buy a firearm. Not to mention that many US households already have firearms in them. They are ubiquitous. They are *everywhere*. According to your profile, you live in TX. How common are guns in TX? More common than glaives? I'm betting on that.
@tetsubo57 Protip: I said ILLEGALLY sure it's easy to get a gun. It's not easy to get one LEGALLY due to waiting times via background checks and whatnot. Go try to purchase a handgun of any sort without waiting anywhere from a week to a month for the background check to go through. Furthermore, try to purchase ANY type of firearm with as much as a small felony on your record. A kleptomaniac serial thief can own all the melee weapons he wants, but he'll NEVER legally own a firearm.
I'm discussing the fact that the game DESIGNERS have had access within their lifetime to more firearms than melee weapons. I think this is a safe statement. And because they are more familiar with guns than glaives, they get the gun weights right. I am not nor have I been discussing OWNERSHIP. How did you get onto that topic? HOW?
@tetsubo57 Maybe you'd know if you took the time to read instead of repeating your own argument. I clearly stated the very simple fact that guns are much harder to obtain than any form of melee weapon. You look in the right place and you can order any melee weapon you want, but the same thing cannot be applied to guns (due to the previously mentioned). This applies moreso to those outside of the USA. These are facts, and as a Police Officer I'm well aware of the truth behind weapon availability.
@ZedekOfLP101 I read what you said. But availability of weapons in the real world has nothing to do with this. But you actually undermine your own argument. If melee weapons are so easily to obtain, why are their weights all wrong? If the game designers could just pick them up, swing them & weigh them at will, why are the weights of them almost ALL, completely wrong? I'm thinking because they haven't ever actually held a weapon or weapon reference book.
@tetsubo57 You JUST previously said that the alleged "unavailability" of melee weapons is why the weights are wrong. You're contradicting yourself now.
@ZedekOfLP101 But how many people actually have access to them? How many? Do you know many people with usable swords that aren't pointless wall-hangers? Or access to a mace or a two-handed polearm? How many? I'm betting a whole lot fewer than have access to guns. Why is this so important to you?
@tetsubo57 Your last question is nullified by the simple fact that you continue replying. Why is this so important to YOU? Don't ask a question in such a manner if the same thing applies to yourself just as much. Every person on the planet has access to them when purchased from the correct location. There are many popular sites that sell combat-ready weaponry. Just because you cannot see it or find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
@tetsubo57 Another thought: Weapon weights are what they are for the sole purpose of measuring how heavy an item is in comparison to others. If you have a short sword with a weight of 10 and an axe with a weight of 20 you simply use the greatest part about D&D; imagination; and imagine how heavy a short sword would feel in your hand, and double that for the axe. It's merely a fake weight measurement system used for the sake of game balance and comparison to other items.
Don't forget the weight of coins! Did you have characters in your RPG's who would haul 50,000 gold coins around? Gives you a good workout. you and the mule you need to help you carry the load. :)
@peri2502 Coinage in fantasy RPGs is equally dumb. I use a silver system but even it isn't even close to realistic. I've been thinking of using 1 gp = 100 sp & 1 sp = 100 cp. But I would have to convert over all the prices & that would be annoying. Now I use 1 gp = 10 sp = 100 bronze pieces = 1000 cp. As it is, you need TONS of gold to buy a major magic item.
@tetsubo57 In my games magic items are not for sale, so that takes care of that problem. I make such things true treasures that are hard to obtain. My players may get lucky finding one in some obscure store, but I like magic in my games to contain a sense of wonder and mystery. I never have many wizards in my game worlds either, since it is a "gift" few posess and those who do guard their secrets jealously. I'm straying off topic here, though. Sorry :)
@peri2502 Hey, it's your world, do as you wish. I like magic shops though. I like custom magic items made by PCs & being able to buy them. I see it as a valuable resource. Treating them as pure treasure means not always getting exactly what you want. Like an actual gift, you don't always get what you wanted.
@tetsubo57 Hey you would love the French Quarter in New Orleans then. Tons of magic shops there that have everything you could possibly want! I myself bought me a magic charm there that is supposed to bring me fortune and prosperity. I just have to figure out how I can get it to work...hmmm...
I agree with your rant overall. Misinformation is misinformation, no matter how trivial.
However, in the interest of pedantry, "zweihander" is pronounced with a long "i" sound instead of a long "e" sound. In German, the second vowel is the one that determines pronounciation. For reference, think "Einstein."
That's definitely a justified rant and I totally agree. Those weights are often so off, it's just annoying and irritating. I'm also annoyed by all the misconceptions about weapons and combat in general. Like the infamous move-style firearms which send people flying through the air and crashing through the next window, with just a 9mm bullet...
Agree completely with you mate. I've trained and fought with steel weapons and a two-hander is not even 50% heavier than most long-swords. Compared to a short sword, possibly feels that way when in stance, but that's cause so much of the weight is at a greater distance.
I would agree with you, but I've never met a group in my 15 years of gaming that has ever used encumbrance rules. This is because encumbrance rules are universally TERRIBLE, save perhaps the badass rules in Lone Wolf books of years long past. Then again, those were Choose Your Own Adventure books rather than rpgs in their own right. Mongoose made a very bad RPG based on it a few years back, and more recently a "multiplayer game" for their LW reprints.
And once again you speak my mind to the very letter! The only thing in RPG rules that tends to be more ridiculous than the weapon stats is the "realism" of the combat rules: My personal favorite being GURPS were you are bound to faint after around 10 seconds of fighting in heavy armor. Which is, as the weapons, unbelievably heavier than it actually ever was/could be... really, I know why Skall and I dropped rules a long time ago and rely on our own minds for the "real feel"
@CaraDanaellea A good rule of thumb is just to cut the weight in half. You will be off slightly in one direction or another but a whole lot closer than the writers of the rules. Weapon reference books just aren't that expensive. I've never figured out why they don't use them.
@tetsubo57 Nah, I just skip the rules anyway. I'm not interested in the "possibility" to carry around 2 sets of armor, 5 weapons, a complete camping equipment and 3 Gold Coins merely because my encumbrance level would allow me to. Skall and I prefer to play without any harsh rules or set character stats, only using the dices to make simple random decisions. One throw for the char one for the enemy/situation, who ever gets the better score wins, adjusted for talent/probability. Works out great.
@tetsubo57 I'm a structure freak and perfectionist to the core, but somehow whenever we tried to play with rules it simply took away both the realism of the game and the enjoyability. Maybe it only works when you are playing "living room LARP" with the one single person in life that understands you fully and tends to think in similar ways. I can imagine that with a whole group of players rules might come in handy... as long as you don't catch a rule lawyer X)
@CaraDanaellea Not a bad thing but I have gamed 1-on-1 before with people I didn't want to have sex with...
Thankfully alignment rarely came up. It was always some 1st edition spell interpretation or another. I am so glad that I don't play 1E D&D any longer.
@tetsubo57 *grin* Of course one should be watchful with whom ze plays 1-on-1. Actually I believe that this is (not only sexually) one of the most intimate and fulfilling experiences one can has. I actually prefer it to group RPG. You can totally loose yourself in the char and the story since the GM always has you in the focus and without rules nothing interrupts the flow of the atmosphere.
Spells, another favorite of strange rules... just be glad that you probably never played DSA...
This has bothered me too but I've just ignored it. I think old and basic D&D might've been the closest in actual weight. I'm looking at a reprint and it says a two-handed sword is 10 pounds. It's off but maybe they're including the scabbard and rounded up. I also have Barbarians of Lemuria. It doesn't list weight but PCs can only carry what their character would likely have and only enough they can strap on their back realistically and still be mobile.
I understand your complaints and you are right. But I'd be more worried that your not bothered that a game lets you carry a bounty of weapons because let's be honest the average human could carry 3 tops without them becoming a HUGE pain in the ass. That always bothered me because I can't help thinking" where am I keeping them"....
CptQuakers 1 week ago
Oblivion's weapon weights. Twenty-pound longsword. Fifty-pound mace. Something is wrong here... hm...
SyrupMabel 3 weeks ago
@SyrupMabel They're just *bulky*.
tetsubo57 3 weeks ago
You have problems with "unrealistic fantasy weapons" and yet I don't see you calling for the banning of fireballs. When you can literally suck out a man's soul from 30 feet away realism has kinda already flown the coup don't you think? Banning spiked chains won't solve that.
butterflyfurball 2 months ago
@butterflyfurball I want the real world elements of a game to reflect the real world. The fantasy elements I don't worry about so long as they are internally consistent. I don't want cows that climb trees or normal dogs that fly nor do I want spiked chains.
tetsubo57 2 months ago
Average human heights, weights and max ages always bothered me in fantasy games. To me they reflect average human of today not of the time period from which they are inspired.
blackbarnz 5 months ago
Is there some game mechanic that would explain why the weights are a bit off? For instance (I am just making this up now, I'm not stating that this is the case) if a two-handed sword is situationally extremely useful to such an extent that it would be silly to not carry one around even if it is not the main weapon of choice for the character, it would be - from a game mechanic point of view - logical to make it heavier in order to deter such behaviour. Any ideas?
apanapane 8 months ago
@apanapane I don't like that method of balance. If a character wants to carry around an absurdly large selection of weapons, I would let them. I would also make sure they *knew* they were carrying them around. I would make their life difficult. Balance it out with role-playing rather than mechanics.
tetsubo57 8 months ago
Thank you so much for covering this topic. As a student of HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) I can confirm what you said. In fact, your example of a 7 pound sword is on the extreme end of things. I was able to handle a 4 foot bastard sword made circa 1500 and it felt like there was next to nothing in my hands. The balance was better than the best modern replica I've held.
Once again, thank you for this. It bothers the crap out of me too.
Oh & polearm/staff/spear damage isn't high enough.
MattABryant 11 months ago
Zwee-lander. lol. Isn't that a Ben Stiller movie? Zweihander = "Tsvei-hander". As in, german two-hander, ein zwei drei = zweihander.
7j8i9m 1 year ago
Do you have an updated weapons list with what you think are accurate weights for the various D&D weapons? If so I would love to see such a list!
jvidell 1 year ago
@jvidell You know, I never made one. I would just adjust them as needed. But that is a good idea...
tetsubo57 1 year ago
Hey tetsubo, I was bothered by the rules for crafting weapons and armor, and how a pound of a material is wildly different when it is considered to be material for crafting. My players ran across some sky metal in Pathfinder, and they wanted to know how much stuff they could make from it. I really couldn't give them a good answer because the price per pound didn't seem to jive with the price of material to craft objects. Any thoughts?
murphysborounderdark 1 year ago
@murphysborounderdark Are they planning on using the material in a pure form or as an alloy? One pound of metal would make a short sword for example quite easily or a couple of daggers. As an alloy, you might get anywhere from 2 - 3 times that. I don't remember what star metal off the top of my head.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 Im running them through the Second Darkness Campaign, but updating it to Pathfinder RPG. The book describes the metal as being as strong as iron, but weighing half as much. It has two price entries for the metal - one for market price per pound, and one for how much additional cost a weapon or armor made from the material should cost. The don't jive really. I assume that the additional cost was consumed in reagents and the fact that this stuff needs to be smelted in quality workshop.
murphysborounderdark 1 year ago
@murphysborounderdark My question really is, what can I use as a standard to tell me how much material I need to make a weapon or armor, not just the value of that material. I love it when the players craft like this, but it pains me that the rules get so sketchy when the players take the time to RP gathering the materials themselves.
murphysborounderdark 1 year ago
You covered my bit at the end.
Why not send a list of all of the weapon weights to wizards of the coast and say.
Please in the future could you use these weights I have all of the weights of these weapons even to "scale" with time period metallurgy.
You maybe surprised with a response of thank you and maybe you might find your name in the next D&D edition with under all of the various special thanks.
Caladors 1 year ago
There's a pretty good reason for the weights of weapons that you're forgetting about. Changing the weight of a weapon just because that's what it weighs in real life would completely destroy the balance of the game. The reason they weigh more is due to the simple fact that you can carry as many of them as you want as long as you can hold the weight unlike in real life where you run out of places to carry them on yourself. Weapons need to have certain weights to preserve the balance of the game.
ZedekOfLP101 1 year ago
@ZedekOfLP101 In 32 years I have never used encumbrance rules. If someone tries to carry to many things, I just say, 'No'. Problem solved. I run the game, the game does not run me.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 Then why are you complaining about weight?
ZedekOfLP101 1 year ago
@ZedekOfLP101 Because weapons are a central part of my study. And the most basic reference would show game developers that they are wrong on almost every count. It bothers me. It isn't hard to get this right. And yet they have failed to do that for 30+ years.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 I understand that. They're not failing to get anything "right" due to what I originally mentioned. The weights are what they are for the sake of game balance. You mentioned how many weapons aren't going to weigh 15 pounds, which is true, but in this game you don't want someone to be able to carry around 30 of them due to the fact that they have an inventory where said weapon isn't sheathed on the person, just an imaginary space to store it for later use.
ZedekOfLP101 1 year ago
@ZedekOfLP101 What GM would allow that?
And at the level you can afford 30 swords, you can afford a portable hole. Making this 'balance' mechanic moot. It's simply poor research on the part of the designers.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 That's the point. The game prevents it through rules via game balance so DMs don't HAVE to say "hey that's absurd quit doing that". Hence my entire argument.
ZedekOfLP101 1 year ago
@ZedekOfLP101 But it's an incredibly, mind-numbingly DUMB means of achieving said 'balance'. Really dumb. They present real world items as these completely unreal objects. For no reason. It is baffling. If I owned a gaming company and someone said, 'We want to balance item ownership by making things absurdly heavy', I would fire them on the spot. Dumb like that is dangerous. I think it is far more likely that they just only held prop weapons & never opened a reference book. Occam's razor.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 In-game method of weighing items is not equal to pounds or any real-world terms of weight measurement. Hence why no weapon's weight is "realistic" yet every flintlock pistol and its retard step cousin happens to be "just right" as you claim. You don't absurdly nail a certain weapon category's weight and then absolutely fail on another's. Fantasy role-playing game etc.
ZedekOfLP101 1 year ago
@ZedekOfLP101 Except that the firearms weights are *right*. Why? Because the designers can go pick one up readily. They do not have access to combat ready melee weapons. Guns are familiar to modern people while swords are not. It makes perfect sense that they get the gun weights right. They *could* get the melee weapon weights right if they chose. They simply don't choose to do so. Which is annoying seeing as how common & important they are in the game.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 No, no they're not. You said yourself that the melee weapons are way off yet all firearms are dead on? That doesn't add up by any stretch of the imagination and the reasoning is obvious; it's a fantasy role-playing game and the method of weight measurement is fictional. Firearms having "correct" weights is a mere coincidence and it's easier to get a hold of melee weapons than firearms due to obvious firearm laws (which applies much moreso to those not in the USA of course).
ZedekOfLP101 1 year ago
@ZedekOfLP101 I'm talking about the designers of the game. The people who write the rules. Do you know how easy it is to get your hands on a gun in the US? How common they are? How ubiquitous? And how HARD it is to get your hands on a flamberge, glaive, pike or mace? Most Americans haven't ever even SEEN one of these things outside a film. It's familiarity, plain & simple. Guns are common, melee weapons rare. The former are correctly weighed & the latter incorrectly.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 Illegally sure it's easy to get a gun. The same thing can be done for the weapons you listed except much easier due to no waiting period, background checks or anything. You're not looking in the right places
ZedekOfLP101 1 year ago
@ZedekOfLP101 Illegal to get a gun in AMERICA? You can buy them at Wal-Mart! I can WALK to a location where it is legal to buy a firearm. Not to mention that many US households already have firearms in them. They are ubiquitous. They are *everywhere*. According to your profile, you live in TX. How common are guns in TX? More common than glaives? I'm betting on that.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 Protip: I said ILLEGALLY sure it's easy to get a gun. It's not easy to get one LEGALLY due to waiting times via background checks and whatnot. Go try to purchase a handgun of any sort without waiting anywhere from a week to a month for the background check to go through. Furthermore, try to purchase ANY type of firearm with as much as a small felony on your record. A kleptomaniac serial thief can own all the melee weapons he wants, but he'll NEVER legally own a firearm.
ZedekOfLP101 1 year ago
@ZedekOfLP101 What are you talking about?
I'm discussing the fact that the game DESIGNERS have had access within their lifetime to more firearms than melee weapons. I think this is a safe statement. And because they are more familiar with guns than glaives, they get the gun weights right. I am not nor have I been discussing OWNERSHIP. How did you get onto that topic? HOW?
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 Maybe you'd know if you took the time to read instead of repeating your own argument. I clearly stated the very simple fact that guns are much harder to obtain than any form of melee weapon. You look in the right place and you can order any melee weapon you want, but the same thing cannot be applied to guns (due to the previously mentioned). This applies moreso to those outside of the USA. These are facts, and as a Police Officer I'm well aware of the truth behind weapon availability.
ZedekOfLP101 1 year ago
@ZedekOfLP101 I read what you said. But availability of weapons in the real world has nothing to do with this. But you actually undermine your own argument. If melee weapons are so easily to obtain, why are their weights all wrong? If the game designers could just pick them up, swing them & weigh them at will, why are the weights of them almost ALL, completely wrong? I'm thinking because they haven't ever actually held a weapon or weapon reference book.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 You JUST previously said that the alleged "unavailability" of melee weapons is why the weights are wrong. You're contradicting yourself now.
ZedekOfLP101 1 year ago
@ZedekOfLP101 But how many people actually have access to them? How many? Do you know many people with usable swords that aren't pointless wall-hangers? Or access to a mace or a two-handed polearm? How many? I'm betting a whole lot fewer than have access to guns. Why is this so important to you?
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 Your last question is nullified by the simple fact that you continue replying. Why is this so important to YOU? Don't ask a question in such a manner if the same thing applies to yourself just as much. Every person on the planet has access to them when purchased from the correct location. There are many popular sites that sell combat-ready weaponry. Just because you cannot see it or find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
ZedekOfLP101 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 Another thought: Weapon weights are what they are for the sole purpose of measuring how heavy an item is in comparison to others. If you have a short sword with a weight of 10 and an axe with a weight of 20 you simply use the greatest part about D&D; imagination; and imagine how heavy a short sword would feel in your hand, and double that for the axe. It's merely a fake weight measurement system used for the sake of game balance and comparison to other items.
ZedekOfLP101 1 year ago
Comment removed
ZedekOfLP101 1 year ago
Don't forget the weight of coins! Did you have characters in your RPG's who would haul 50,000 gold coins around? Gives you a good workout. you and the mule you need to help you carry the load. :)
peri2502 1 year ago
@peri2502 Coinage in fantasy RPGs is equally dumb. I use a silver system but even it isn't even close to realistic. I've been thinking of using 1 gp = 100 sp & 1 sp = 100 cp. But I would have to convert over all the prices & that would be annoying. Now I use 1 gp = 10 sp = 100 bronze pieces = 1000 cp. As it is, you need TONS of gold to buy a major magic item.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 In my games magic items are not for sale, so that takes care of that problem. I make such things true treasures that are hard to obtain. My players may get lucky finding one in some obscure store, but I like magic in my games to contain a sense of wonder and mystery. I never have many wizards in my game worlds either, since it is a "gift" few posess and those who do guard their secrets jealously. I'm straying off topic here, though. Sorry :)
peri2502 1 year ago
@peri2502 Hey, it's your world, do as you wish. I like magic shops though. I like custom magic items made by PCs & being able to buy them. I see it as a valuable resource. Treating them as pure treasure means not always getting exactly what you want. Like an actual gift, you don't always get what you wanted.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 Hey you would love the French Quarter in New Orleans then. Tons of magic shops there that have everything you could possibly want! I myself bought me a magic charm there that is supposed to bring me fortune and prosperity. I just have to figure out how I can get it to work...hmmm...
peri2502 1 year ago
You can use a 25 lb sword if you're Guts from Berserk.
pateroon 1 year ago
It's pronounced "may-lay"...
brokeanddrive 1 year ago
I agree with your rant overall. Misinformation is misinformation, no matter how trivial.
However, in the interest of pedantry, "zweihander" is pronounced with a long "i" sound instead of a long "e" sound. In German, the second vowel is the one that determines pronounciation. For reference, think "Einstein."
blackseven 1 year ago
@blackseven You have missed the pedantic train on that one. Numerous people have shown me the error of my ways. :)
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 I would have figured someone would have pointed it out, but I didn't see anything looking at the comments left here. I hope, no harm done?
blackseven 1 year ago
@blackseven I barely speak English. That I butch German is no surprise.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@tetsubo57 I would have figured someone would have pointed it out, but I didn't see anything looking at the comments left here. I hope, no harm done?
blackseven 1 year ago
That's definitely a justified rant and I totally agree. Those weights are often so off, it's just annoying and irritating. I'm also annoyed by all the misconceptions about weapons and combat in general. Like the infamous move-style firearms which send people flying through the air and crashing through the next window, with just a 9mm bullet...
SkallagrimNilsson 1 year ago 2
I feel much younger now after watching this. Thank you Tetsubo - you make me realize what a hansome hunk I must be.
- The Music Loving Klingon
Qoltar 1 year ago
/Stands
/Applauds
This has bothered me to an unreasonable degree since 1989.
OverdrivePrime 1 year ago
Eh, my SRD source says greatswords weigh 8lbs, which isn't exactly far off. More like slightly off.
Mastikator 1 year ago
Agree completely with you mate. I've trained and fought with steel weapons and a two-hander is not even 50% heavier than most long-swords. Compared to a short sword, possibly feels that way when in stance, but that's cause so much of the weight is at a greater distance.
Chineselegolas 1 year ago
I would agree with you, but I've never met a group in my 15 years of gaming that has ever used encumbrance rules. This is because encumbrance rules are universally TERRIBLE, save perhaps the badass rules in Lone Wolf books of years long past. Then again, those were Choose Your Own Adventure books rather than rpgs in their own right. Mongoose made a very bad RPG based on it a few years back, and more recently a "multiplayer game" for their LW reprints.
Man, I went off on a tangent there...
azirk83 1 year ago
And once again you speak my mind to the very letter! The only thing in RPG rules that tends to be more ridiculous than the weapon stats is the "realism" of the combat rules: My personal favorite being GURPS were you are bound to faint after around 10 seconds of fighting in heavy armor. Which is, as the weapons, unbelievably heavier than it actually ever was/could be... really, I know why Skall and I dropped rules a long time ago and rely on our own minds for the "real feel"
CaraDanaellea 1 year ago
@CaraDanaellea A good rule of thumb is just to cut the weight in half. You will be off slightly in one direction or another but a whole lot closer than the writers of the rules. Weapon reference books just aren't that expensive. I've never figured out why they don't use them.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 Nah, I just skip the rules anyway. I'm not interested in the "possibility" to carry around 2 sets of armor, 5 weapons, a complete camping equipment and 3 Gold Coins merely because my encumbrance level would allow me to. Skall and I prefer to play without any harsh rules or set character stats, only using the dices to make simple random decisions. One throw for the char one for the enemy/situation, who ever gets the better score wins, adjusted for talent/probability. Works out great.
CaraDanaellea 1 year ago
@CaraDanaellea I need a higher level of structure than that. It's a hold over from my many years of perfectionism.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 I'm a structure freak and perfectionist to the core, but somehow whenever we tried to play with rules it simply took away both the realism of the game and the enjoyability. Maybe it only works when you are playing "living room LARP" with the one single person in life that understands you fully and tends to think in similar ways. I can imagine that with a whole group of players rules might come in handy... as long as you don't catch a rule lawyer X)
CaraDanaellea 1 year ago
@CaraDanaellea But those sorts of games can just end up in sex. :)
I've played with many rules lawyers in my day. Once we had TWO of them in the group. Fun, fun, fun...
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 You say it as if it were a bad thing... ;D
Two of them O_O How did any of you manage to get out alive? And more importantly, how much blood was there, and were they fighting over alignment?
CaraDanaellea 1 year ago
@CaraDanaellea Not a bad thing but I have gamed 1-on-1 before with people I didn't want to have sex with...
Thankfully alignment rarely came up. It was always some 1st edition spell interpretation or another. I am so glad that I don't play 1E D&D any longer.
tetsubo57 1 year ago
@tetsubo57 *grin* Of course one should be watchful with whom ze plays 1-on-1. Actually I believe that this is (not only sexually) one of the most intimate and fulfilling experiences one can has. I actually prefer it to group RPG. You can totally loose yourself in the char and the story since the GM always has you in the focus and without rules nothing interrupts the flow of the atmosphere.
Spells, another favorite of strange rules... just be glad that you probably never played DSA...
CaraDanaellea 1 year ago
This has bothered me too but I've just ignored it. I think old and basic D&D might've been the closest in actual weight. I'm looking at a reprint and it says a two-handed sword is 10 pounds. It's off but maybe they're including the scabbard and rounded up. I also have Barbarians of Lemuria. It doesn't list weight but PCs can only carry what their character would likely have and only enough they can strap on their back realistically and still be mobile.
Great video. Thanks for bringing this up!
scullkrusher 1 year ago
I have always wondered about the weights.
darktoadthesticky 1 year ago
I find the same prolem in video games there is no way you could actually carry this much stuff .
67kneil 1 year ago