I don't see how it's blasphemy to say that we have supreme worth and infinite dignity. Why would anyone worship a god who treats his own children like vermin? And then expects us to thank him for treating us like vermin? I read and study the Bible, and I read in it that we can be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.
@Chinaculiacan having not obviously read the previous post. So please take your time and read the previous post I have put. Do also not I am also boon70 I made this account as you can see there are Antis who don't like me answering questions so they delete my post or otherwise ban me from there pages. Gee I wonder why maybe they don't want the truth about Mormons to spread.
I have a child who has matured to become a parent, like me. Should I be offended? Would my child be blasphemous to say that they want to grow up to be like dad? Do you deny that God the Father is your Father? Should I deny that he is mine? What is God's purpose then in declaring himself our Father? Is He a liar, like the devil? Joy is not found in pleasure but there is great pleasure in finding joy. Our eternal and everlasting joy is God's purpose, like any parent 's hope for their child.
Mormons are Christians by definition. Anyone who believes and worships Christ is a Christian by definition. True we believe that we become gods if we are worthy and righteous enough to make it to the highest kingdom of heaven but that does not mean we are polytheists. Polytheists worship more than one God while Mormons do not. I don't quite understand why there is anger and hatred in here. Shouldn't the goal of all mankind be to be like Christ? Would Christ act this way? It saddens me..
@QuarterMasterGaming In as much as Christianity is allowed to define itself, you are not Chtistian. once joseph Smith told his followers that there was a multitude of Gods in the universe and that Jesus and the Father were but a few of them, he forever parted his followers with the Christian faith. Central to the Christian faith is that there is one ond only one god. Period. You worship a different Jesus. A demon posing as Jesus.
@RedSun875 We believe that we become as Gods when we are worthy and we ascend to heaven. This does not mean we worship ourselves, we only worship our Lord. There is a difference between becoming like gods and being the one true God. Also, if we are ruled by demons then how come our tithing money is always spent correctly? Even investigations done by non LDS members have confirmed no foul play and on top of that the church helps so many. Doesn't seem like the work of demons to me. Misinformed.
@QuarterMasterGaming Excuse me? And where are you getting this supposed information on Church Spending? To this day the Church does NOT SHARE what it spends it's money on to the public or to their own members. Also... I never claimed you worshipped yourself. However your very belief in the Existence of Multiple Gods is against the clear teachings of the Bible. "Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one." Isiah 44:8b
@RedSun875 I am more curious where in the bible it states mormons worship a demon dressed up like jesus like its Halloween. that is hilariously bad. Guess what? I see a counselor to help me through my divorce I am going through and it is church funded. So how is that not sharing? Also, the church doesn't brag or boast about it but they help people all over the world who need it. The lord is a "Rock" AKA A foundation. we believe there to be only one foundation. you are playing on words.
@RedSun875 Unless you have spent a decent amount of time in an LDS church then you cannot assume to know anything about it. Stop listening to what others preach and search for yourself. I will claim to know nothing about your faith as I have never spent time in yours and honestly that is the intelligent way to look at it. Don't profess to know someone else's religion just from word of mouth. I bet you also believe we have many many wives LOL! Oh, and no we don't. But I bet you believed that.
@RedSun875 If what you say is true then no it does not count. Apparently if that is what you believe to be true about the LDS church then you know nothing of the church. It is a shame that you can't learn anything in 4 years. Try my 26 years to your 4 and then tell me you still believe what you believe. Oh, and I am not angry with you just disappointed. Anyone who is happy in life doesn't need to bash other religions or act rudely towards others. I hope you find happiness and peace. /done
@QuarterMasterGaming No No No... Naughty naughty. You made a claim the church is open with her spending books. I'm calling you on your lie. Also you made the claim that mormons no longer believe in poligamy, but failed to mention mormons can be sealed to multiple partners for all time and eternity, after someone dies and in some cases even after divorce. You like many mormons will "lie for God" to "witnses for the church" Why else do you think I left you guys? :D
@RedSun875 that sounds more like the FLDS than the LDS church man. They are a sect of the mormon church but are not mormons. Emma Smith, Joseph Smith's wife, wanted one of her sons to be the next prophet of the church but God didn't. She got angry and broke off from the church and formed her own. They still practice Polygamy but the LDS church does not. Nothing you say is true to the LDS church. I know this because I have been a member for 26 years.
@QuarterMasterGaming Liar... Do I need to dig out where you very apostles were sealed for all time and eternity to a new wife after the old one passed? Your lies is why I left you guys.
@RedSun875 I said we don't practice it anymore man. It used to be a responsibility back when we had to move westward. The Lord knew that we were going to have to increase our numbers because of the hardships. Aside from the many of deaths moving westward Mormons were prosecuted and killed by angry mobs that were even backed by the GOVERNMENT. yes, the government allowed it to happen. You need to do more research. Oh, and I am done with this so keep yappin man. All you want to do is fight.
@QuarterMasterGaming Onother lie... People are sealed to all time and eternity to this day in the temple after they remarry because their spouse has passed. You are trying to bury the truth and being your a supposed member for 26 years, there is no way you cannot know this unless you are a Jack Mormon.
@RedSun875 sounds to me that you had a few unanswered questions during your membership and instead of investigating properly you got angry and packed up. Either that or a select few members had burned you and you decided to take your anger out on the church itself. This sounds more personal than anything man and I can't help you because you can't help yourself. If you were truly happy you wouldn't invest your time in the negativity of attacking others. I am done with this, good luck bud.
@RedSun875 they are not personal attacks but rather an attempt to show you just how unhappy you truly must be. You can take it as an offense or not, we choose to be offended. I myself am not offended whatsoever because I am strong enough in my faith. I have not been "proven" to be a liar in any form, maybe in your own mind but if that makes it easier for you to cope with your decision to leave the church then I can't help you and won't help you make or live your excuses.
@QuarterMasterGaming Here we go again. Trying to make a claim there is something wrong with me rather than your doctrine. I'm still waiting for you to show where the mormon chuch shows even it's members or the public it's spending practices as you claimed. You cannot show it because you lied. Simple as that.
@RedSun875 "Always the personal attacks eh" "You lied, you are a liar, another lie". Sounds to me you need to focus on not being hypocritical if you want to continue conversations or discussions with people. You are a big man, why don't you research the church's spending money? Or are you afraid that you might be wrong? I already told you I see a counselor for my divorce and it is completely funded by the church. I don't have a job yet and cannot pay tithing so it doesn't even come form me
@QuarterMasterGaming A lie is a lie. You claim to be a 26 year member and that the church is open with it's spending practices. I know from being a former member myslelf (still a member on paper) that if you indeed are a 26 year member you know for a fact the church does NOT share how it spends its tithing money. And no... you have your wires crossed on conversations. I did not know you were divorced. Either that or I missed a post.
@RedSun875 I will add I'm still waiting on the proof of your claim the mormons are open with their finaceual books... Your lies you tell "in the name of God" knows no bounds.
@RedSun875 you are fanatical and therefore I am ending this conversation. You can go off in life assuming I am a liar and that you have won but you are sadly ignorant to truth and are afraid to investigate things yourself. You cannot be helped until you help yourself. You also will do nothing but attempt to belittle another organization other than your own therefore continuing to discuss this with someone like you is like yelling at a brick wall expecting it to move. This is my last reply.
@QuarterMasterGaming You could win this entire debate on your honesty just by producing refrences for the church spending... but they as you know... do not exist. There is an indirect rule in mormonism that you tell non believers lies in hopes they will see the "higher truths" when they can handle them. That is why I left you.
@RedSun875 I have a book I can reference but I am trying to get out and look for a job. If I can find it I will do my best to give you the best answer I can okay? Give me time. I do not want to "win" any argument but rather hope to inform as you seem very angry with the church. I was angry for 10 years of my life with the church because I felt judged but rather it was because I was traumatized as a child and I hid it from those who love me. I projected my anger on others. I want to help not win
@RedSun875 I found the book but its a LONG description, It might take a few here. Recent articles and books estimate the assets of the Church comparable to Fortune magazine's 500 companies. Time magazine headlined a cover store titled "MORMONS. INC.," with a subheading "Latter-day profits-The secrets of America's most prosperous religion" (4 August 1997). In 1999, the same authors expanded their article into a book called Mormon America(Ostling and Ostling (1999), 113-129). (Article Cont.)
@QuarterMasterGaming The writers were fair and accurate at times, but often wrong in their intterpretations-especially concerning LDS finances. A few years earlier the Arizona Republic did a series of front page articles with a team of investigative reporters concerning the worth of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Just prior to that time, the national media had a field day reporting several financial scandals involving some churches in America. (Article Cont.)
@QuarterMasterGaming Newsmen from Phoenix jumped on the bandwagin in hopes of finding more exposes. They were looking for fraud and misuse of moneys in the LDS church. After an exhaustive search the Arizona Republic concluded that although the LDS church had a vast wealth, they could find no improprieties in the management of funds. First, however, a reporter asked to see where President Spencer W. Kimball lived. (Article Cont.)
@QuarterMasterGaming When he saw the modest home of a middle-class Salt Lake City neighborhood he remarked, "there is no scandal here." All of these are money-consuming assets and not money-producing assets. They do not produce financial wealth, but they do help to produce and strengthen Latter-day Saints. Comparing the church with normal business is inappropriate. The church's schools, meetinghouses, welfare facilities, admin offices, and temples do not earn money. (article Cont.)
@QuarterMasterGaming Assets of business enterprises exist to make profits for owners and investors, which does not apply to the LDS church nor most churches. Businesses owned by the LDS church, such as radio/TV stations, satellite facilities, and a newspaper are justifiable since they help spread the message of the Church. Other religions often own media companies. Enterprises owned by the church always pay taxes. (article Cont.)
@QuarterMasterGaming Leaders state that the Church could only operate a few weeks if it had to rely on it's investments. The church's business involvement in Utah came as a necessity. When the LDS pioneers came to the Salt Lake Valley, individual members began establishing commercial activities. Since most LDS were impoverished, larger enterprises had to be financed by the church because there was no one else to do it. The article goes on and on.
@QuarterMasterGaming We shall see. That still does not look like refrences to church spending. Why dont you go ask your bisho for those records and tell me what response you get. :)
@RedSun875 I am not sure if I have access to that regardless but I can always ask and see. He is actually on my friends list on facebook. I am not sure how appropriate that would be regardless of the spending though. But regardless, the article I posted has referenced how other magazine companies did their best to prove a scandal and could not. Not sure what more proof you would need.
@QuarterMasterGaming Well I allready have a response for you. Yes there was some disclosure over the spending of the companies mormonism ownes. That is expected when you have a company. But on tithing? ABSOLUTELY NOT. You go tell your Bishop you would like to know where your tithing money and the churches tithing money goes in gereral and see what response you get. It is perhaps possible you are clueless on this. :P
@RedSun875 here's the thing, if the LDS church was spending the tithing inappropriately then they would have been found guilty and prosecuted by the full extent of the law. Other religions that have done so have had the leaders imprisoned. You act like you yourself have had access to the tithing expenditures and I doubt it. Therefore, you yourself have no proof of wrongdoings but only accusations without facts. You have asked me for facts but I ask you for facts. I have given you proof.
@QuarterMasterGaming You can feel free to show me where tithing was covered in those articles. Church contributions and Church ownership of companies is two entirely different matters. Legally no chuch has to give to their own or the govenment ANY accounting of church contributions. The accounting of buisness is an entirely different matter. The church does not want you to see that it spends far more money to the buying of a bizz and displays than on the poor and needy. Ask for those records.
@RedSun875 It also states in the article that the church does not make any money. It doesn't MAKE money, so where does it all come from? The members! That means that the expenditures come from the members themselves. My counseling, is paid for by the church. If the church makes no monetary gain on their own that means that it comes from tithing. Plain and simple.
@QuarterMasterGaming This is where you are wrong again. Are you not aware that the "Prophet" and "Apostles" set as Chairpersons over mormon owned corporations of up to about a dosen plus per person? Mind you to be a chair of one company alone requires if you are really doing the job, 60-80 hours a week. Your leaders sit in mock positions and are litterally millionares while verbally peeing on pastors who do not even make 50 thousand a year, calling them evil. Wake up man.
@RedSun875 Throwing money at the poor and needy is not what's going to help. There is more ways to help than just giving money out. The LDS welfare program is probably the best one out there.
You know what I find funny, is all these supposed loving and caring Christians measuring Mormonism against their own belief system. Guess what, idiot! Mormons don't believe what you believe! That's why they are Mormons. Your smug superiority is why liberals get away with bashing Christians as intolerant asshats, because its largely true.
This man's REAL problem,is he suspects the LDS faith just might be true and he is scared to death.By the way-IT IS TRUE.Thomas S.Monson is God;s prophet on the earth at this moment.READ,ponder and pray about that great Book Of Mormon.
@tracifaye that great book of mormon you speak about sure does lie good. completely contradicts the teachings of the bible, taking on the voice of satan " thou shalt be gods!" and yet you are souly and purely convinced you are christian,yet being completely apart from the true god christ, jesus. searcht the scripture, for the heart is wicked above all things and who shall know it? the devil can give you feelings pretending to be god. the spirit of anti christ can make a man feel good. be aware
To all the critics, I'm proud to be a member of Jesus Christ's church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Those who talk against Jesus Christ's church talk against Jesus Christ and the critics of the church will have to face Jesus Christ at judgment day and explain why you persecuted him and his church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
@majinish Soooo? i'm not a member, does that mean i have the church of the Devil? :) Oh i'll face Jesus, except i'll have my face on the ground, because his face will be shine like the sun, but wait? ur BOM says, Joseph will be there to Judge us too, Oh no!!! Help me help me. Lol. Dude, 4 u being an LDS means u have to cary Joses lies, false prophesies, adulteres ways, pedophile ways, n on, in ur leg like a chain ball, got it, that's no freedom, Jesus came 2 give us freedom. So sorry 4 u.
@Chinaculiacan Care to say where it says that in the Book of Mormon? Try nowhere. With the attitude you have you can't even claim to be a Christian. A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ and I'm a member of Jesus Christ's church. I don't go out of my way to belittle others and persecute them.
@majinish Persecute them? how this for persecution? Had I anything to do with the Negro, Iwould confine them by strict law to their own species...”Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., January 2, 1845, History of the Church, v. 5, pp. 21-218. Or this?Joseph Smith. Besides his assertion that the Book of Mormon was far superior to the Bible, he charged that the Bible had been changed by "Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests. History of the Church, vol. 6, page 57
@Chinaculiacan The first one you mention is out of context. I never see a critic give everything that's said from that page. As for the 2nd one, the Bible has been changed unless you don't consider 91 versions in english alone to be proof. Any biblical scholar will tell you that. Matthew 28 says one angel was at Christ's tomb when Mary was there while Luke 24 says there were 2.
@majinish Mathew 28:2, the first angel talks and was to let the ladies and the apostles go into the tumb and to remind them of Jesus promises. Luke 24 2 angels, spoke of why are you looking for the live one among the dead ones. Get it?
@Chinaculiacan Like Joseph Smith Jr. said, when the scriptures were written by their original authors they were without error. Translators changed that.
@majinish I'am Christian, so for you being Christians means one has to say nothing when it comes to these things, N just sing alone with you guys say? oh please, what did Jesus said when it came to religious people like you, Son of Vipers, man full of dead bones, take a good look at your leaders, and think, you persecuted first. Get the book that says all i posted, but i doubted u will, it cost $ 20.000 dllrs, is not the book u have now, it has being changed dude. Get ur facts.
@Chinaculiacan I have my facts straight as I've shown. You, on the other hand, do not. As long as you act the way you do you're not a Christian. No, we don't persecute others. We've always been persecuted. History repeats itself. Jesus Christ was persecuted for his teachings and now we members of Jesus Christ's church are persecuted for teaching his teachings.
@majinish Aha? i've shown you how your leaders have persecuted Christians, and even with ur own church history. You are not persecuted for Jesus teachings, but for Joseph teachings, that is all, and that is a fact.
@Chinaculiacan No that's not a fact. That's your ignorance. We teach Jesus Christ's teachings so we're persecuted for it. That's truth. No, we haven't persecuted anyone and nothing gives you the right to persecute others.
@majinish You haven't persecuted any one? aha!! I treat poorly? I don't believe in your doctrine, if that's why u say i treat u poorly, than go for it. You follow Jesus? Satan brother, or the Alfa and the Omega, the first and the last, the one who is and is to come, Rev 1:8. God made Flesh, John1:1. That one? or the one conceived by the father with his many wives in Kalob?
@Chinaculiacan You do more than say you don't believe what we believe. You put down what we believe. The Satan and Jesus being spiritual brothers thing? Satan was Lucifer the angel and angels are sons of God so that makes Satan/Lucifer a son of God. Jesus and Lucifer/Satan have the same spiritual parent. That's simple Bible basics.
@majinish Was Jesus an Angel? because that would make Jesus satans brother, Jesus is creator, Rom 4:17 Acts 11:3 John 1:3 Col 1:16, I can go on until the 2nd coming of Jesus. When you come and tell me this, I will treat you poorly, Jesus doesn't need me to defend him, but it's out of love for Jesus that i do this, how dare you compare that worm with Jesus of Nazareth. Satan is a creation, Ezequiel 28:14-19.
@Chinaculiacan God the Father is God of all including Jesus and Satan. If you don't think the Father is Jesus' God then what about when Jesus told Mary he hasn't yet went to his God?
@"When you come and tell me this, I will treat you poorly"
Wow. You're definitely not a real Christian.
@"but it's out of love for Jesus that i do this"
Wrong. It's that line anti-'s repeat just to justify themselves. You haven't defended the Christ one bit.
@majinish And just because you go around the world with nice words and niceness doesn't make you a Christian. Oh wait, John Tyler said that Satan could not have spread his work then through Christianity. Like I said, being LDS is like carrying a chain ball to you leg, carrying all josephs lies and all what ur leaders did. Including the death of innocent people. Keep your church, when u stand b4 God, u tell him, God I kept ur commandments, I obey ur law, ur ordinance, I gave 10%, I wore garments.
@Chinaculiacan What makes me a Christian is the fact that I follow Jesus Christ and his teachings.
@"Including the death of innocent people"
While killing was uncalled for, the men that were killed in the massacre were not innocent. They were involved in torturing and killing saints in Missouri including women and children.
@Chinaculiacan @"When you come and tell me this, I will treat you poorly"
How do you justify calling yourself a Christian when you say you will treat others poorly? You're making excuses to make you persecuting others seem ok and to just feel good about yourself. What you've said has nothing to do with defending Jesus since you've talked against him. You attack Jesus Christ's church acting like you're all high and mighty while you become what Jesus called the Pharisees: a hypocrite.
@majinish this doesn't make feel good about my self u understand? You come to me with BOM and teachings of a man that took other mans wives. I come to you with the Bible, you tell me Jesus is satans brother, we have a problem, and just because i don't come all loving and goody doesn't mean i'm not a Christian, what would u've said about Jesus when he rebuked the Prarisees? the church of Jesus, or is it the church of Joseph? bcuz that's all you guys talk about.
@Chinaculiacan You bring false interpretations of the Bible and nothing more. Like all critics you try to use even the Bible to justify yourself. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for being in error of the scriptures just as I've shown you you're in error of the scriptures. It's Jesus Christ's church.
@majinish When u feel you've done all that God wants u to do, come before him and tell him all that you have done, God I kept ur commandments, I obey ur law, ur ordinance, I gave 10%, I wore garments, Killing woman and children, all because they were following a mans orders and defending a man and taking part of that stupidity.
@Chinaculiacan I follow God. People like you go around saying "if you believe in this this and this you're going to Hell." Since when did God give you the right to send someone to Hell? He didn't.
@majinish UUy!! you sound mad. Dude Jesus rebuked the pharisees for their beliefs, and for being hipocrites, because they know how to keep the law, but forgot to have mercy love for others, they knew of no error, they just felt to righteous to be around the sinners dude. Just like you, you are nothing but a self righteous man, not one moment have you mentioned u were a sinner and still a sinner. But instead u say (i have the church of Christ) bla bla, my sins r great, but my savior is GREATER.
@Chinaculiacan Mad about what? You're ignorant of the scriptures so I don't have a reason to be mad. You just don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.
@"not one moment have you mentioned u were a sinner and still a sinner"
Because I don't have to. I know am. I sin, just as you do, but that doesn't change the fact that I follow Jesus Christ. I repent of my sins but being a member of Jesus Christ's church isn't a sin.
@majinish You go ahead and follow the man who started that church and his teachings. Keep the commandments, wear your gardments, give your tithing, and so on. You keep being a member.
@Chinaculiacan We follow the only Jesus Christ there is. We follow the Jesus Christ the scriptures teach of, not the one created by the false trinity doctrine from 325 AD. No, we don't persecute others and yes, you have treated me poorly simply because my beliefs are different from yours. You've done nothing but talked down about what we believe.
@majinish Take a good look at who Jesus is. Wise and Only, Rom 16:27 1 Tim 1:17. Glorified Ex 15:11 145:5. Most High. Psalm 83:18. Acts 7:48. Perfect. Mt 5:48. Holy, Psalm 99:9 Isaiah 5:16. Just. Dt 32:4 Isaiah 45:21. Truth. Jer 10:10 Jn 17:3. Righteous Psalm 25:8, 92:15. Good, Psalm 25:8 119:68. Great. 2 Cr 2:5 Psalm 86:10. Merciful. Ex. 34:6. Psalm 116:5 Faithfull 1 Cor 10:13 1 Peter 4:19. Pasient . Num 14:18. Mi 7:1 Jealous 24:19, Nah 1:2. Consuming Fire. Acts 12:29.
@Chinaculiacan I know exactly who Jesus is. He's the Lord and Savior. It is also his church that I belong to. I'm an example of a follower of Jesus Christ.
@majinish So be a member, you'll find out that God doesn't want a number, or a member, he wants true worshipers, not religious people that do this do that to come to him, he'll say to you, i sent u my son so that u could come freely to my arms, but instead u r wearing underwares, tithing, an on, to come to me? shame on you he'll say, My son wasn't enoug for you? that u felt u could do better every day? through my son a bad man is good, n a good man even better. U feel persecuted? oh please man.
@majinish Do u keep the commandments majinish? so what u are saying is that when u go out the streets yo don't look at a woman with lust? you take ur eyes out to not comit adultery and to keep the commandments? lol dude, James 2:10. You tell me i don't know the scriptures, another lol.
@Chinaculiacan I tell you you don't know the scriptures because that's what you've proven. Yes, I keep the commandments. You act just how the Pharisees did. The claimed to believe in God yet treated others poorly just as you do.
@majinish There is no other besides him Dt 33:26, 2 Sam 7:22, Is 46:5-9. Jer 10:6. No one is good but him. Mt 19:17. He filled the earth and heaven 1 Kings 8:27; Jer 23:24. Has to be worship in truth and in spirit, John 4:24.
So when you go on the missions and talk about God and say he was once a man like us, dude God is going to have a serious word with you.
@Chinaculiacan You need to go back and read Matthew 19:17 again. It's one of many that disproves the trinity. Jesus said he's not the one good but God is. Again, Jesus said to do works of righteousness. When I go on my mission I'll be serving Jesus Christ who is the Son of God. I follow Jesus Christ.
@majinish You see, YES U DO AND PERSECUTE THEM, in your mission u go around and talk about the BOM, and say is true, that is another testament of J C? oh please, So God didn't know what to do with his word and talked to a man in the 1800s? so God made a mistake? God is not God because he took a break from being God, and let a man finished his word? big LOL dude, I'll be sending u who's God, and maybe you"ll understand somehting.
Very well said. This is the main reason why I left the mormon church. Their contention that they can become as God. There is only one God of the entire universe, and He will not suffer pretenders to His throne. Repent, mormons.
@RetCrayon The man I am quoting isn't a Mormon because he died in 202 AD he is one of the early Christians. This is what a Protestant said after reading about Irenaeus. Participation in God was carried so far by Irenaeus as to amount to deification. 'We were not made gods in the beginning,' he says, 'but at first men, then at length gods.' This is not to be understood as mere rhetorical exaggeration on Irenaeus' part. He meant the statement to be taken literally. Oh and here is where the quote
@RetCrayon Arthur C. McGiffert, A History of Christian Thought, Vol. 1—Early and Eastern: From Jesus to John of Damascus (New York: Scribner's Sons, 1932), 141. Hmm I find it odd this person who wrote this book isn't a Mormon plus he is not even quoting a Mormon. Oh and I got many more quotes like this. So as you were saying? I will tell you this much we believe as all else do only worship Christ and none else. Oh and none includes the cross.
@Boon11000 You're grasping at straws. Mans opinions are worthless. The eternal God is not a "god" as mortal and angelic beings have been described in the Bible. Jesus told us we will be LIKE the angels. (Not angels) but like the angels. There was a beginning for this blasphemy. It started with Satan. Satan was not cast out of heaven because his plan failed and he rebelled. He was cast down because he wanted to sit on the throne of God. Satan wanted to be a God.
@Boon11000 More than Ireneaus? Again. A glorified man never became a God. Men are not angels. Jesus said we will become "like" the angels, not angels. Angels and mortals do not become Gods. Joseph Smiths religion rose from out of context Biblical verse, spiritualism, the atumnal equinox, mysticism, plagiarized works of his day. He kept a Jupiter Talisman in his pocket, "verified by a BYU professor" to gain favor with the ladies. 34 wives proved the Talisman worked better than Zoosk.
@GiftoAll here. Proof is of that is the last two woman Joseph was married to Joseph wasn't even alive, he had been dead for a few years. You bringing up Joseph was married to 34 wives as you do goes to show you don't understand the doctrine of marriage in Mormonism only as far as what you have read from bigots off of Anti Mormon websites. No unhallowed hand shall stop this work from progressing, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth noble,
@Boon11000 Sometime in the future, the Almighty uncreated God is going to destroy the Mormon church. The members holding fast to Joseph Smiths fables are going to fall hard. There is no purgatory or spirit world and there are no second chances.
@GiftoAll , and independently, till it has penetrated ever continent, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, then shall the Jehovah say the work is done.
@Boon11000 The body of Christ, those who believe that Jesus is the mighty God have arrived on every continent. Christians have been testifying of Christ throughout the world for centuries. The only possible way mormonism could fill the earth is if the followers of Christ were taken from the earth. Mormons would be left to compete against Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and atheism..
@Boon11000 He was never married to this ladies? hum?Lucinda Morgan Harris 1838 already married to George W Harris. Zina Hunting Jacobs Oct 1841 age 20 already married to Henry Jacobs. Presendia Huntington Buell Dec 1841 age 31 already married to Norman Buell.Sylvia Sessions Lyon Feb 1842 age 23 already married to Windsor Lyon. Mary Rollins Lightner Feb. 1842 age 23 already married to Adam Lightner. Patty Bartlett Sessions march 1842 age 47 already married to David Sessions.Like i said u r a morn
@Chinaculiacan Did you know your getting your information from a website from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or the Mormon Church? You act as if this is some secret. I have already told you guys there was no sexual relations with these women and Joseph. I have also told you all that these marriage were had little or no effect in this life only in the next did they have effect. I also told you the reason why they were done. Also none of this was done in secret. Do also take note
@Boon11000 Emily D. Partridge (Smith Young) said she "roomed" with Joseph the night following her marriage to him and said that she had "carnal intercourse" with him. (Temple Lot case (complete transcript), 364, 367, 384. Faithful Mormon Melissa Lott (Smith Willes) testified that she had been Joseph's wife "in very deed." (Affidavit of Melissa Willes, 3 Aug. 1893, Temple Lot case, 98, 105. No sexual relations? You should realy get to know your history!!
@Chinaculiacan that there was marriage done after Joseph had already been buried in the ground. From my understanding you don't know the reasons Mormons get married in the temple, but yet you talk to me as if you know more about my religion than I do. I have answering the questions of Anti Mormons for more than 20 years wouldn't you think I have been asked this question say maybe a billion times but I also find it really redundant when you have a person that comes in and starts speaking about
@Boon11000 Marriege done after Joseph had already been buried? oh I see!! So that was done in Gods pleaseing eyes? You Mormons teach that everyone needs a temple marriage in order to enter the top level of the Celestial Kingdom. Yet the Bible has no such emphasis. Luke 20: 34-36 - Neither marry nor given in marriage - children of God. I know your teachings.
@Boon11000 Marinda Johnson Hyde April 1842 age 27 already married to Orson Hyde. Elizabeth Davis Durfee June 1842 age 50 already married to Jabez Durfee. Sarah Kingsley Cleveland june 1842 age 53 already married John Cleveland. You want more? You keep believing in this man. LOL
@Boon11000 Your christ is the brother of lucifer...he is not God incarnate...he is a very different christ from the one that traditional Christianity worships. And you will never be as God, mormon. There will always only be one God.
For I testify to every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add to these things, God shall add to him the plagues that are written in this book:
@SantaBarbaraDianne Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. John 10:30-35 Christ said, I and my Father our one. To the Jews this means Christ was the Fathers equal. They picked up stones to cast at him. He asked them why they did this they said for blasphemy. Christ then quoted the scripture in Psalms 82:6 and then said the scripture could not be broken. Rev 3:21 it says
@Boon11000 There's a reason why gods has a small "g". In context "Ye are gods" is describing mortal positions like judges and rulers. It does not mean "Gods" like the eternal God. You don't agree with these verse? Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it]? ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any]. Mar 12:32 ,,,,,,,,: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
@GiftoAll the scripture was written. At the time when Isaiah wrote this Israel is having problems with worshiping false Gods. He is telling them their is only one God whom they should worship and their is no other around him that they should worship. Mark 12:32 Again you take scriptures out of context the scriptures was only divided up into chapters and verses to make it so it would be easier to quote and find passages of scripture. Again it is talking about worshiping only Christ and none other
@Boon11000 The Israelites were not only warned about worshipping other Gods, they were also warned about believing there were many Gods. The apostles of Christ never taught there were Gods like the Almighty. The Almighty is never described as a "god". There is NO council of many Gods, or an infinite number of Gods who rule over trillions of planets. Satan was cast down wanting to reign in heaven as a God.
@GiftoAll If a person reads Isa 44 and 48 the whole chapters they will see its talking about worshiping one God not their isn't the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are separate beings. If they were all one being why would Christ say I go to my Father? Why didn't he say I go to myself? When he prayed in the garden why did he do so that would of been kinda of waste because he would be talking to himself? When Christ was baptized was Christ in the clouds, flying around as a dove, and in
@Boon11000 I have told you before. Jesus is not the Father. Jesus is not the Holy Ghost. "Three bear record in heaven, AND THESE THREE ARE ONE". There are not 3 Gods to make up the Godhead or a council of Gods.
@SantaBarbaraDianne To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. Doesn't so far fetch anymore does it.
“But even if we or an angel from heaven (moroni) should preach to you a gospel other than what we have preached to you, curse be on him!” Galatians 1:6-9 Mormon’s are not prepared for the coming apocalypse, Huge Sorrow will be to the mormon who refuse to see the truth, You have been warned your fall will be great. Read the BIBLE ONLY!
@GiftoAll I find it odd you didn't push reply like you usually do. Maybe because you didn't want me reading this. Hmm, why don't I put Dr. beside my name and say their is 92% you believe pigs fly and make some bogus video about it while I am it. If you haven't figure it out anyone can make any type of claim they want well almost and put it on youtube or some other place for people to watch and say I did all this study when their full of it.
@GiftoAll When did apoligize for anything to begin with. About Dr. Criddles he is a person that is reaching he goes from theory to theory on how the Book of Mormon came about. Take note that before he brought up the theory his first theory was Sidney Rigdon till he realized it didn't have a leg to stand and just like any regular Anti Mormon he goes and makes up something else. You and your alias awol are good examples of that.
@GiftoAll far from me. To me this seems like what alot of supposed Christians teach their children and say its okay. Dr. Criddles to me is reaching he is making up stuff as he goes because his first theory didn't work nor does his second. Give it time though Dr. Criddles well come up with some other theory in the future.
@GiftoAll I am surprised at how you try to say I am delusional when I told you that Criddles first theory was that Sidney Rigdon wrote the Book of Mormon was bogus because it wasn't his theory he just used someone elses work and said it was his. When people wouldn't take that in he went on to Soloman Spaulding. While I go over this everyone will see the dirty laundry on Criddles study. Having done this study I wonder if anything Criddles has written has any creditability at all.
@GiftoAll Problems with "Who really wrote The Book of Mormon" by Craig Criddles
1. Beliefs and Consequences section he never mentions what happened in Waco, TX many years ago. We all do remember those people said they were Christians.
2. His quote you can basically program people with stories and parables. Well doesn't that sound like the Bible? Why we use stories and parables really is to help us remember.
3. He mentions authorship on steroids but he mentions about Solomon Spaulding and Sidney
@GiftoAll Rigdon. Antis have been trying to prove this theory since the mid 1800s Criddles isn't the first.
4. Overview and story of Solomon Spaulding Manuscripts.
The first manuscript Criddles mentions we know lots about because you can go read it. Doctor Philastus Hurlbut obtained a manuscript through Spalding's widow, Huribut tried getting into a legal despute with Joseph Smith. Dr. Hurlbut delivered this manuscript to Howe. Howe could not find the similarities of The Book of Mormon and the
@GiftoAll first Manuscript. Now this is were we get the "first" mention of this "second" manuscript was when Howe couldn't find the similiarites Hulbut said their had to be a second manuscript (do take note Criddles mentions nothing of this). While we are at it when we look at The Book of Mormon and do a word print study when it comes to Spaulding the one book with the most likeablitly that Spaulding could of wrote here is the chances that he wrote it the books of Nephi .000000000003%. Your
@GiftoAll chances of getting hit by lightening are if you live to be 80 years old are 0.000016%. Your chances of getting hit by lightening are better. Do also take note that Hurlburt is an ExMormon. Some major problems with the Spaulding theory.1884 Manuscript Story—Conneaut Creek was recovered by Lewis L. Rice in Honolulu, Hawaii and taken to the Oberlin College Library in Ohio. The story had hardly any likes to the Book of Mormon. Do also take note the text of "Manuscript Story" was published
@GiftoAll by the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1885, and by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1886 and 1910. Gee why would the church publish this book? Probably to show it had hardly any similarity to the Book of Mormon. Some say that Sidney Rigdon used Spauldings Manuscript, historical record shows that Parley P. Pratt introduced the Book of Mormon to Sidney Rigdon in Nov 1830; problem is The Book of Mormon was published in April 1830. My guess is
@GiftoAll also many of you listening to Criddles do not know that Spaulding Manuscript was clearly never finished, even after he moved away from all his friends who had claimed to have read or listened to the story.
Here are some references that you all can check out.
Hurlbut was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in June of 1833 (see Brigham H. Roberts, ed., History of the Church [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1948], 1:355). He first heard about the Solomon
@GiftoAll Spaulding manuscript from the Jackson family (who knew Spaulding personally) while he was lecturing against Mormonism in Pennsylvania. But when Hurlbut asked Mr. Jackson to sign an affidavit stating that there were similarities between Spaulding's manuscript and the Book of Mormon Jackson refused, insisting that "there was no agreement between them" and "express[ing] his indignation and contempt" for Hurlbut's undertaking (Benjamin Winchester, The Origin of the Spaulding Story
@GiftoAll [Philadelphia: Brown, Bicking, and Guilpert, 1840], 8-9). Either Hurlbut or Howe wrote a letter to Spaulding's widow informing her that her husband's manuscript "did not read as they expected" and they therefore decided against publishing it (Winchester, The Origin of the Spaulding Story, 17).
Oh and this study it was done in four days during my spare time. Imagine what I can bring up in two or three weeks. My conclusion is Criddles can not hold a very dim light let alone a candle to
@GiftoAll the truth. When it comes down to it I wouldn't trust anything that came from Criddles. I have also read Criddles other works that have nothing to do with the church its all borrowed work. He just rephrases it to sound smart. Your end result is Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdry, Sidney Rigdon, or Solomon Spaulding have no authorship to the Book of Mormon. Any person that goes and honestly studies the Book of Mormon they will find that their is only one possible theory that could be true about
@BOON70 Copy and paste isn't proving anything. I said Sidney and Olivers writing style is all over the Bookofmormon. Criddle didn't use Mormon authors. It doesn't really matter. There is no proof. There never will be any proof to validate the Book of mormon. You are chasing a fable.
@GiftoAll What you mean is the second Manuscript spoken of by Criddles is made up. Your just like other Anti Mormons as well they never can face the facts.
Beware. Lucifer is not Christs spirit brother. Joseph made it all up. Lucifer was a Babylonian king. No one was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ hundreds of years before he was born in Jerusalem, "oops" Bethlehem.
@BOON70 I don't believe there is enough evidence to prove it either way. It stands unresolved. You will call it history, I will call it evidence free fiction.
@GiftoAll Like I said before Antis will never face the facts that 95% of what they teach isn't true and the other 5% is just so construed to make it sound like something it is not when it comes to Mormonism. My guess is your starting to find it true when I said I have talked with those who oppose the Mormon Church for more than 20 years. Oh and one last thing Howe isn't a Mormon and he even the first Manuscript wasn't as it was claimed to be. My other question is have ever read the first one?
@GiftoAll Dr. Criddles is just as any other source or information from Anti Mormons seems as the truth on the surface till you go look yourself. Oh and the only part copied is the sources. Do take in mind that some of the sources are of authors that are not Mormon. All your sources come from Criddles do take note that no where does Criddles use any sources. I watched the entire video on youtube he only uses one source. I have lots. Not even the Bible agrees with that for anything to have any
@BOON70 Neither your information or Craigs is valid clear evidence. Sidney and Oliver have a paticular writing style. This writing style is found in the BofM. You're wasting effort and tooting on a whistle only a dog can hear. Another topic. Mormon doctrinate has told you the Word of God, "the Bible" cannot be fully trusted. Jesus is the Word of God. You don't trust Jesus Christ.
@GiftoAll No its not their has been plenty of word print studies done on the Book of Mormon to prove that it wasn't written by any of them. Oh and I do like how you try to change the subject as well. Also how admit Criddles isn't valid lol. I already told you that Sidney knew nothing of the Church until some time after the Book of Mormon was published. Oliver Cowdry with the word print studies done the chances of Oliver Cowdry writing the one book that comes the closest is the book of Alma
@GiftoAll stand. Their is something called the law of witnesses what some call it. That you must two or three witnesses. Criddles has 1. Just from my sources I think i put up 4. Do also take note that I keep log of every response you have ever said to me. If you want to talk about bragging about self you should really read what you type. Don't tell me to copy and paste either when you do it yourself. Antis always seem to hate it when I copy and paste something when they themselves do it.
@BOON70 law of witnesses? There are many early court signed affidavits backing up Criddles research. Need a hug? Into guessing now? Show me where I have bragged about my education, how many years I have argued with Mormons and how good I am at keeping records. I don't care if you copy and paste. Try proof reading and give a referrence when you paste. At times, it's a pile of confusion. "Do take note" "your favorite words", I know what a hypocrite means.
how do you know that isn't true? (and yes I am mormon)
Aliciamarievdm 3 weeks ago
Thank you for posting this, Brother. Blessings in your future videos. To God alone be all Glory and Honor, to Jesus Christ all Worship and Praise.
angelina4jesus 1 month ago
I don't see how it's blasphemy to say that we have supreme worth and infinite dignity. Why would anyone worship a god who treats his own children like vermin? And then expects us to thank him for treating us like vermin? I read and study the Bible, and I read in it that we can be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.
lindalds 2 months ago 2
@Chinaculiacan having not obviously read the previous post. So please take your time and read the previous post I have put. Do also not I am also boon70 I made this account as you can see there are Antis who don't like me answering questions so they delete my post or otherwise ban me from there pages. Gee I wonder why maybe they don't want the truth about Mormons to spread.
Boon11000 2 months ago
I have a child who has matured to become a parent, like me. Should I be offended? Would my child be blasphemous to say that they want to grow up to be like dad? Do you deny that God the Father is your Father? Should I deny that he is mine? What is God's purpose then in declaring himself our Father? Is He a liar, like the devil? Joy is not found in pleasure but there is great pleasure in finding joy. Our eternal and everlasting joy is God's purpose, like any parent 's hope for their child.
smalluplandbird 3 months ago
I agree with you that God is our only focal point, that is the very same thing I have been taught as a Mormon.
asuvlumuzi 4 months ago
And yet Christ was called a blasphemer by they who supposedly were children of the law
asuvlumuzi 4 months ago
Yes, the message i hear is a man centered teaching. Thank you Jesus for your truth. Thank you Aaron.
TheSoulamore 4 months ago
Mormons are Christians by definition. Anyone who believes and worships Christ is a Christian by definition. True we believe that we become gods if we are worthy and righteous enough to make it to the highest kingdom of heaven but that does not mean we are polytheists. Polytheists worship more than one God while Mormons do not. I don't quite understand why there is anger and hatred in here. Shouldn't the goal of all mankind be to be like Christ? Would Christ act this way? It saddens me..
QuarterMasterGaming 4 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming In as much as Christianity is allowed to define itself, you are not Chtistian. once joseph Smith told his followers that there was a multitude of Gods in the universe and that Jesus and the Father were but a few of them, he forever parted his followers with the Christian faith. Central to the Christian faith is that there is one ond only one god. Period. You worship a different Jesus. A demon posing as Jesus.
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 rofl!!!!!
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@RedSun875 We believe that we become as Gods when we are worthy and we ascend to heaven. This does not mean we worship ourselves, we only worship our Lord. There is a difference between becoming like gods and being the one true God. Also, if we are ruled by demons then how come our tithing money is always spent correctly? Even investigations done by non LDS members have confirmed no foul play and on top of that the church helps so many. Doesn't seem like the work of demons to me. Misinformed.
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming Excuse me? And where are you getting this supposed information on Church Spending? To this day the Church does NOT SHARE what it spends it's money on to the public or to their own members. Also... I never claimed you worshipped yourself. However your very belief in the Existence of Multiple Gods is against the clear teachings of the Bible. "Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one." Isiah 44:8b
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 I am more curious where in the bible it states mormons worship a demon dressed up like jesus like its Halloween. that is hilariously bad. Guess what? I see a counselor to help me through my divorce I am going through and it is church funded. So how is that not sharing? Also, the church doesn't brag or boast about it but they help people all over the world who need it. The lord is a "Rock" AKA A foundation. we believe there to be only one foundation. you are playing on words.
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@RedSun875 Unless you have spent a decent amount of time in an LDS church then you cannot assume to know anything about it. Stop listening to what others preach and search for yourself. I will claim to know nothing about your faith as I have never spent time in yours and honestly that is the intelligent way to look at it. Don't profess to know someone else's religion just from word of mouth. I bet you also believe we have many many wives LOL! Oh, and no we don't. But I bet you believed that.
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming LOL... Does four years a former member count? So yea. I'm calling you on your lies. :)
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 If what you say is true then no it does not count. Apparently if that is what you believe to be true about the LDS church then you know nothing of the church. It is a shame that you can't learn anything in 4 years. Try my 26 years to your 4 and then tell me you still believe what you believe. Oh, and I am not angry with you just disappointed. Anyone who is happy in life doesn't need to bash other religions or act rudely towards others. I hope you find happiness and peace. /done
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming No No No... Naughty naughty. You made a claim the church is open with her spending books. I'm calling you on your lie. Also you made the claim that mormons no longer believe in poligamy, but failed to mention mormons can be sealed to multiple partners for all time and eternity, after someone dies and in some cases even after divorce. You like many mormons will "lie for God" to "witnses for the church" Why else do you think I left you guys? :D
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 that sounds more like the FLDS than the LDS church man. They are a sect of the mormon church but are not mormons. Emma Smith, Joseph Smith's wife, wanted one of her sons to be the next prophet of the church but God didn't. She got angry and broke off from the church and formed her own. They still practice Polygamy but the LDS church does not. Nothing you say is true to the LDS church. I know this because I have been a member for 26 years.
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming Liar... Do I need to dig out where you very apostles were sealed for all time and eternity to a new wife after the old one passed? Your lies is why I left you guys.
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 I said we don't practice it anymore man. It used to be a responsibility back when we had to move westward. The Lord knew that we were going to have to increase our numbers because of the hardships. Aside from the many of deaths moving westward Mormons were prosecuted and killed by angry mobs that were even backed by the GOVERNMENT. yes, the government allowed it to happen. You need to do more research. Oh, and I am done with this so keep yappin man. All you want to do is fight.
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming Onother lie... People are sealed to all time and eternity to this day in the temple after they remarry because their spouse has passed. You are trying to bury the truth and being your a supposed member for 26 years, there is no way you cannot know this unless you are a Jack Mormon.
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 sounds to me that you had a few unanswered questions during your membership and instead of investigating properly you got angry and packed up. Either that or a select few members had burned you and you decided to take your anger out on the church itself. This sounds more personal than anything man and I can't help you because you can't help yourself. If you were truly happy you wouldn't invest your time in the negativity of attacking others. I am done with this, good luck bud.
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming Allways the personal attacks eh? No one can leave your church because they simply see your dishonesty and unbiblical teaching? :P
You have been proven a liar.
I called you on your claims and you provided no answers.
You try to divert from that fact by making a baseless accusation concerning my person.
This is why I left you guys.
Your gospel and your methods behind the scenes is demonic.
Thanks for contributing to exposing to the public what you really are.
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 they are not personal attacks but rather an attempt to show you just how unhappy you truly must be. You can take it as an offense or not, we choose to be offended. I myself am not offended whatsoever because I am strong enough in my faith. I have not been "proven" to be a liar in any form, maybe in your own mind but if that makes it easier for you to cope with your decision to leave the church then I can't help you and won't help you make or live your excuses.
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming Here we go again. Trying to make a claim there is something wrong with me rather than your doctrine. I'm still waiting for you to show where the mormon chuch shows even it's members or the public it's spending practices as you claimed. You cannot show it because you lied. Simple as that.
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 "Always the personal attacks eh" "You lied, you are a liar, another lie". Sounds to me you need to focus on not being hypocritical if you want to continue conversations or discussions with people. You are a big man, why don't you research the church's spending money? Or are you afraid that you might be wrong? I already told you I see a counselor for my divorce and it is completely funded by the church. I don't have a job yet and cannot pay tithing so it doesn't even come form me
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming A lie is a lie. You claim to be a 26 year member and that the church is open with it's spending practices. I know from being a former member myslelf (still a member on paper) that if you indeed are a 26 year member you know for a fact the church does NOT share how it spends its tithing money. And no... you have your wires crossed on conversations. I did not know you were divorced. Either that or I missed a post.
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 I will add I'm still waiting on the proof of your claim the mormons are open with their finaceual books... Your lies you tell "in the name of God" knows no bounds.
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 you are fanatical and therefore I am ending this conversation. You can go off in life assuming I am a liar and that you have won but you are sadly ignorant to truth and are afraid to investigate things yourself. You cannot be helped until you help yourself. You also will do nothing but attempt to belittle another organization other than your own therefore continuing to discuss this with someone like you is like yelling at a brick wall expecting it to move. This is my last reply.
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming You could win this entire debate on your honesty just by producing refrences for the church spending... but they as you know... do not exist. There is an indirect rule in mormonism that you tell non believers lies in hopes they will see the "higher truths" when they can handle them. That is why I left you.
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 I have a book I can reference but I am trying to get out and look for a job. If I can find it I will do my best to give you the best answer I can okay? Give me time. I do not want to "win" any argument but rather hope to inform as you seem very angry with the church. I was angry for 10 years of my life with the church because I felt judged but rather it was because I was traumatized as a child and I hid it from those who love me. I projected my anger on others. I want to help not win
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming Take all the time you want. I won't hold my breath for it. :)
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 I found the book but its a LONG description, It might take a few here. Recent articles and books estimate the assets of the Church comparable to Fortune magazine's 500 companies. Time magazine headlined a cover store titled "MORMONS. INC.," with a subheading "Latter-day profits-The secrets of America's most prosperous religion" (4 August 1997). In 1999, the same authors expanded their article into a book called Mormon America(Ostling and Ostling (1999), 113-129). (Article Cont.)
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming The writers were fair and accurate at times, but often wrong in their intterpretations-especially concerning LDS finances. A few years earlier the Arizona Republic did a series of front page articles with a team of investigative reporters concerning the worth of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Just prior to that time, the national media had a field day reporting several financial scandals involving some churches in America. (Article Cont.)
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming Newsmen from Phoenix jumped on the bandwagin in hopes of finding more exposes. They were looking for fraud and misuse of moneys in the LDS church. After an exhaustive search the Arizona Republic concluded that although the LDS church had a vast wealth, they could find no improprieties in the management of funds. First, however, a reporter asked to see where President Spencer W. Kimball lived. (Article Cont.)
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming When he saw the modest home of a middle-class Salt Lake City neighborhood he remarked, "there is no scandal here." All of these are money-consuming assets and not money-producing assets. They do not produce financial wealth, but they do help to produce and strengthen Latter-day Saints. Comparing the church with normal business is inappropriate. The church's schools, meetinghouses, welfare facilities, admin offices, and temples do not earn money. (article Cont.)
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming Assets of business enterprises exist to make profits for owners and investors, which does not apply to the LDS church nor most churches. Businesses owned by the LDS church, such as radio/TV stations, satellite facilities, and a newspaper are justifiable since they help spread the message of the Church. Other religions often own media companies. Enterprises owned by the church always pay taxes. (article Cont.)
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming Leaders state that the Church could only operate a few weeks if it had to rely on it's investments. The church's business involvement in Utah came as a necessity. When the LDS pioneers came to the Salt Lake Valley, individual members began establishing commercial activities. Since most LDS were impoverished, larger enterprises had to be financed by the church because there was no one else to do it. The article goes on and on.
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming We shall see. That still does not look like refrences to church spending. Why dont you go ask your bisho for those records and tell me what response you get. :)
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 I am not sure if I have access to that regardless but I can always ask and see. He is actually on my friends list on facebook. I am not sure how appropriate that would be regardless of the spending though. But regardless, the article I posted has referenced how other magazine companies did their best to prove a scandal and could not. Not sure what more proof you would need.
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming Well I allready have a response for you. Yes there was some disclosure over the spending of the companies mormonism ownes. That is expected when you have a company. But on tithing? ABSOLUTELY NOT. You go tell your Bishop you would like to know where your tithing money and the churches tithing money goes in gereral and see what response you get. It is perhaps possible you are clueless on this. :P
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 here's the thing, if the LDS church was spending the tithing inappropriately then they would have been found guilty and prosecuted by the full extent of the law. Other religions that have done so have had the leaders imprisoned. You act like you yourself have had access to the tithing expenditures and I doubt it. Therefore, you yourself have no proof of wrongdoings but only accusations without facts. You have asked me for facts but I ask you for facts. I have given you proof.
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming You can feel free to show me where tithing was covered in those articles. Church contributions and Church ownership of companies is two entirely different matters. Legally no chuch has to give to their own or the govenment ANY accounting of church contributions. The accounting of buisness is an entirely different matter. The church does not want you to see that it spends far more money to the buying of a bizz and displays than on the poor and needy. Ask for those records.
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 It also states in the article that the church does not make any money. It doesn't MAKE money, so where does it all come from? The members! That means that the expenditures come from the members themselves. My counseling, is paid for by the church. If the church makes no monetary gain on their own that means that it comes from tithing. Plain and simple.
QuarterMasterGaming 3 months ago
@QuarterMasterGaming This is where you are wrong again. Are you not aware that the "Prophet" and "Apostles" set as Chairpersons over mormon owned corporations of up to about a dosen plus per person? Mind you to be a chair of one company alone requires if you are really doing the job, 60-80 hours a week. Your leaders sit in mock positions and are litterally millionares while verbally peeing on pastors who do not even make 50 thousand a year, calling them evil. Wake up man.
RedSun875 3 months ago
@RedSun875 from what I understand, there is a business arm of the LDS church that is for profit and does pay it's share of taxes.
lindalds 2 months ago
@RedSun875 Throwing money at the poor and needy is not what's going to help. There is more ways to help than just giving money out. The LDS welfare program is probably the best one out there.
lindalds 2 months ago
You know what I find funny, is all these supposed loving and caring Christians measuring Mormonism against their own belief system. Guess what, idiot! Mormons don't believe what you believe! That's why they are Mormons. Your smug superiority is why liberals get away with bashing Christians as intolerant asshats, because its largely true.
sugarraydodge 5 months ago
If you dislike this, i really question your teach-ability? it might be impossible for you to learn any truth at all.
ron62090 5 months ago
This man's REAL problem,is he suspects the LDS faith just might be true and he is scared to death.By the way-IT IS TRUE.Thomas S.Monson is God;s prophet on the earth at this moment.READ,ponder and pray about that great Book Of Mormon.
tracifaye 6 months ago
@tracifaye that great book of mormon you speak about sure does lie good. completely contradicts the teachings of the bible, taking on the voice of satan " thou shalt be gods!" and yet you are souly and purely convinced you are christian,yet being completely apart from the true god christ, jesus. searcht the scripture, for the heart is wicked above all things and who shall know it? the devil can give you feelings pretending to be god. the spirit of anti christ can make a man feel good. be aware
IWantToKnowChrist 6 months ago
To all the critics, I'm proud to be a member of Jesus Christ's church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Those who talk against Jesus Christ's church talk against Jesus Christ and the critics of the church will have to face Jesus Christ at judgment day and explain why you persecuted him and his church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish I hope you get over it. Try 2 aspirins .
999LDS 7 months ago
@majinish Hello Majinish, what happened to you proving me wrong about your church history?
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@majinish Soooo? i'm not a member, does that mean i have the church of the Devil? :) Oh i'll face Jesus, except i'll have my face on the ground, because his face will be shine like the sun, but wait? ur BOM says, Joseph will be there to Judge us too, Oh no!!! Help me help me. Lol. Dude, 4 u being an LDS means u have to cary Joses lies, false prophesies, adulteres ways, pedophile ways, n on, in ur leg like a chain ball, got it, that's no freedom, Jesus came 2 give us freedom. So sorry 4 u.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Care to say where it says that in the Book of Mormon? Try nowhere. With the attitude you have you can't even claim to be a Christian. A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ and I'm a member of Jesus Christ's church. I don't go out of my way to belittle others and persecute them.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish Persecute them? how this for persecution? Had I anything to do with the Negro, Iwould confine them by strict law to their own species...”Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., January 2, 1845, History of the Church, v. 5, pp. 21-218. Or this?Joseph Smith. Besides his assertion that the Book of Mormon was far superior to the Bible, he charged that the Bible had been changed by "Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests. History of the Church, vol. 6, page 57
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan The first one you mention is out of context. I never see a critic give everything that's said from that page. As for the 2nd one, the Bible has been changed unless you don't consider 91 versions in english alone to be proof. Any biblical scholar will tell you that. Matthew 28 says one angel was at Christ's tomb when Mary was there while Luke 24 says there were 2.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish Mathew 28:2, the first angel talks and was to let the ladies and the apostles go into the tumb and to remind them of Jesus promises. Luke 24 2 angels, spoke of why are you looking for the live one among the dead ones. Get it?
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan They make two different claims on the number of angels that was present at the tomb.
majinish 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Like Joseph Smith Jr. said, when the scriptures were written by their original authors they were without error. Translators changed that.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish Aha sure? I'll give you what the word of God says. Read Psalms 119:160. Keep reading.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Ok, read it. And? Perhaps you're the one in need of reading those verses since you seem to fit the going astray part.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish I'am Christian, so for you being Christians means one has to say nothing when it comes to these things, N just sing alone with you guys say? oh please, what did Jesus said when it came to religious people like you, Son of Vipers, man full of dead bones, take a good look at your leaders, and think, you persecuted first. Get the book that says all i posted, but i doubted u will, it cost $ 20.000 dllrs, is not the book u have now, it has being changed dude. Get ur facts.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan I have my facts straight as I've shown. You, on the other hand, do not. As long as you act the way you do you're not a Christian. No, we don't persecute others. We've always been persecuted. History repeats itself. Jesus Christ was persecuted for his teachings and now we members of Jesus Christ's church are persecuted for teaching his teachings.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish Aha? i've shown you how your leaders have persecuted Christians, and even with ur own church history. You are not persecuted for Jesus teachings, but for Joseph teachings, that is all, and that is a fact.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan No that's not a fact. That's your ignorance. We teach Jesus Christ's teachings so we're persecuted for it. That's truth. No, we haven't persecuted anyone and nothing gives you the right to persecute others.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish You haven't persecuted any one? aha!! I treat poorly? I don't believe in your doctrine, if that's why u say i treat u poorly, than go for it. You follow Jesus? Satan brother, or the Alfa and the Omega, the first and the last, the one who is and is to come, Rev 1:8. God made Flesh, John1:1. That one? or the one conceived by the father with his many wives in Kalob?
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan You do more than say you don't believe what we believe. You put down what we believe. The Satan and Jesus being spiritual brothers thing? Satan was Lucifer the angel and angels are sons of God so that makes Satan/Lucifer a son of God. Jesus and Lucifer/Satan have the same spiritual parent. That's simple Bible basics.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish Was Jesus an Angel? because that would make Jesus satans brother, Jesus is creator, Rom 4:17 Acts 11:3 John 1:3 Col 1:16, I can go on until the 2nd coming of Jesus. When you come and tell me this, I will treat you poorly, Jesus doesn't need me to defend him, but it's out of love for Jesus that i do this, how dare you compare that worm with Jesus of Nazareth. Satan is a creation, Ezequiel 28:14-19.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan God the Father is God of all including Jesus and Satan. If you don't think the Father is Jesus' God then what about when Jesus told Mary he hasn't yet went to his God?
@"When you come and tell me this, I will treat you poorly"
Wow. You're definitely not a real Christian.
@"but it's out of love for Jesus that i do this"
Wrong. It's that line anti-'s repeat just to justify themselves. You haven't defended the Christ one bit.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish And just because you go around the world with nice words and niceness doesn't make you a Christian. Oh wait, John Tyler said that Satan could not have spread his work then through Christianity. Like I said, being LDS is like carrying a chain ball to you leg, carrying all josephs lies and all what ur leaders did. Including the death of innocent people. Keep your church, when u stand b4 God, u tell him, God I kept ur commandments, I obey ur law, ur ordinance, I gave 10%, I wore garments.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan What makes me a Christian is the fact that I follow Jesus Christ and his teachings.
@"Including the death of innocent people"
While killing was uncalled for, the men that were killed in the massacre were not innocent. They were involved in torturing and killing saints in Missouri including women and children.
majinish 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan @"When you come and tell me this, I will treat you poorly"
How do you justify calling yourself a Christian when you say you will treat others poorly? You're making excuses to make you persecuting others seem ok and to just feel good about yourself. What you've said has nothing to do with defending Jesus since you've talked against him. You attack Jesus Christ's church acting like you're all high and mighty while you become what Jesus called the Pharisees: a hypocrite.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish this doesn't make feel good about my self u understand? You come to me with BOM and teachings of a man that took other mans wives. I come to you with the Bible, you tell me Jesus is satans brother, we have a problem, and just because i don't come all loving and goody doesn't mean i'm not a Christian, what would u've said about Jesus when he rebuked the Prarisees? the church of Jesus, or is it the church of Joseph? bcuz that's all you guys talk about.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan You bring false interpretations of the Bible and nothing more. Like all critics you try to use even the Bible to justify yourself. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for being in error of the scriptures just as I've shown you you're in error of the scriptures. It's Jesus Christ's church.
majinish 7 months ago
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@majinish When u feel you've done all that God wants u to do, come before him and tell him all that you have done, God I kept ur commandments, I obey ur law, ur ordinance, I gave 10%, I wore garments, Killing woman and children, all because they were following a mans orders and defending a man and taking part of that stupidity.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@majinish And lets see what God has to say.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan I follow God. People like you go around saying "if you believe in this this and this you're going to Hell." Since when did God give you the right to send someone to Hell? He didn't.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish UUy!! you sound mad. Dude Jesus rebuked the pharisees for their beliefs, and for being hipocrites, because they know how to keep the law, but forgot to have mercy love for others, they knew of no error, they just felt to righteous to be around the sinners dude. Just like you, you are nothing but a self righteous man, not one moment have you mentioned u were a sinner and still a sinner. But instead u say (i have the church of Christ) bla bla, my sins r great, but my savior is GREATER.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Mad about what? You're ignorant of the scriptures so I don't have a reason to be mad. You just don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.
@"not one moment have you mentioned u were a sinner and still a sinner"
Because I don't have to. I know am. I sin, just as you do, but that doesn't change the fact that I follow Jesus Christ. I repent of my sins but being a member of Jesus Christ's church isn't a sin.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish You go ahead and follow the man who started that church and his teachings. Keep the commandments, wear your gardments, give your tithing, and so on. You keep being a member.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Are you an Evangelist or a Baptist?
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish No denomination. Followe of Jesus Christ of Nazareth
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
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@Chinaculiacan "Followe of Jesus Christ of Nazareth" Going by your posts, no you don't.
majinish 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan We follow the only Jesus Christ there is. We follow the Jesus Christ the scriptures teach of, not the one created by the false trinity doctrine from 325 AD. No, we don't persecute others and yes, you have treated me poorly simply because my beliefs are different from yours. You've done nothing but talked down about what we believe.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish Take a good look at who Jesus is. Wise and Only, Rom 16:27 1 Tim 1:17. Glorified Ex 15:11 145:5. Most High. Psalm 83:18. Acts 7:48. Perfect. Mt 5:48. Holy, Psalm 99:9 Isaiah 5:16. Just. Dt 32:4 Isaiah 45:21. Truth. Jer 10:10 Jn 17:3. Righteous Psalm 25:8, 92:15. Good, Psalm 25:8 119:68. Great. 2 Cr 2:5 Psalm 86:10. Merciful. Ex. 34:6. Psalm 116:5 Faithfull 1 Cor 10:13 1 Peter 4:19. Pasient . Num 14:18. Mi 7:1 Jealous 24:19, Nah 1:2. Consuming Fire. Acts 12:29.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan I know exactly who Jesus is. He's the Lord and Savior. It is also his church that I belong to. I'm an example of a follower of Jesus Christ.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish So be a member, you'll find out that God doesn't want a number, or a member, he wants true worshipers, not religious people that do this do that to come to him, he'll say to you, i sent u my son so that u could come freely to my arms, but instead u r wearing underwares, tithing, an on, to come to me? shame on you he'll say, My son wasn't enoug for you? that u felt u could do better every day? through my son a bad man is good, n a good man even better. U feel persecuted? oh please man.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Christ said to keep the commandments. You have no clue on what the scriptures teach. That's obvious.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish Do u keep the commandments majinish? so what u are saying is that when u go out the streets yo don't look at a woman with lust? you take ur eyes out to not comit adultery and to keep the commandments? lol dude, James 2:10. You tell me i don't know the scriptures, another lol.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan I tell you you don't know the scriptures because that's what you've proven. Yes, I keep the commandments. You act just how the Pharisees did. The claimed to believe in God yet treated others poorly just as you do.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish There is no other besides him Dt 33:26, 2 Sam 7:22, Is 46:5-9. Jer 10:6. No one is good but him. Mt 19:17. He filled the earth and heaven 1 Kings 8:27; Jer 23:24. Has to be worship in truth and in spirit, John 4:24.
So when you go on the missions and talk about God and say he was once a man like us, dude God is going to have a serious word with you.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan You need to go back and read Matthew 19:17 again. It's one of many that disproves the trinity. Jesus said he's not the one good but God is. Again, Jesus said to do works of righteousness. When I go on my mission I'll be serving Jesus Christ who is the Son of God. I follow Jesus Christ.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish You see, YES U DO AND PERSECUTE THEM, in your mission u go around and talk about the BOM, and say is true, that is another testament of J C? oh please, So God didn't know what to do with his word and talked to a man in the 1800s? so God made a mistake? God is not God because he took a break from being God, and let a man finished his word? big LOL dude, I'll be sending u who's God, and maybe you"ll understand somehting.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan So what about the apostles? Were they persecuting others when they went out two-by-two teaching of Christ?
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish If you are talking about your bodies, dude, before the Jesus name is mention, the name of Jose is pronounce.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
a prophet of the devil like so many others through the times.
antivatican1 8 months ago
Very well said. This is the main reason why I left the mormon church. Their contention that they can become as God. There is only one God of the entire universe, and He will not suffer pretenders to His throne. Repent, mormons.
RetCrayon 11 months ago
@RetCrayon The man I am quoting isn't a Mormon because he died in 202 AD he is one of the early Christians. This is what a Protestant said after reading about Irenaeus. Participation in God was carried so far by Irenaeus as to amount to deification. 'We were not made gods in the beginning,' he says, 'but at first men, then at length gods.' This is not to be understood as mere rhetorical exaggeration on Irenaeus' part. He meant the statement to be taken literally. Oh and here is where the quote
Boon11000 11 months ago
@Boon11000 keep spinning, mormon...traditional Christianity does not teach the plurality of gods like your ridiculous religion.
RetCrayon 11 months ago
@Boon11000 Irenaeus' opinions are his opinions. None of the recognized Biblical translations have said anything about men becoming Gods.
GiftoAll 11 months ago
@RetCrayon Arthur C. McGiffert, A History of Christian Thought, Vol. 1—Early and Eastern: From Jesus to John of Damascus (New York: Scribner's Sons, 1932), 141. Hmm I find it odd this person who wrote this book isn't a Mormon plus he is not even quoting a Mormon. Oh and I got many more quotes like this. So as you were saying? I will tell you this much we believe as all else do only worship Christ and none else. Oh and none includes the cross.
Boon11000 11 months ago
@Boon11000 You're grasping at straws. Mans opinions are worthless. The eternal God is not a "god" as mortal and angelic beings have been described in the Bible. Jesus told us we will be LIKE the angels. (Not angels) but like the angels. There was a beginning for this blasphemy. It started with Satan. Satan was not cast out of heaven because his plan failed and he rebelled. He was cast down because he wanted to sit on the throne of God. Satan wanted to be a God.
GiftoAll 11 months ago
@GiftoAll You probably don't even know that Irenaus wasn't the only one who said like this either.
Boon11000 10 months ago
@Boon11000 More than Ireneaus? Again. A glorified man never became a God. Men are not angels. Jesus said we will become "like" the angels, not angels. Angels and mortals do not become Gods. Joseph Smiths religion rose from out of context Biblical verse, spiritualism, the atumnal equinox, mysticism, plagiarized works of his day. He kept a Jupiter Talisman in his pocket, "verified by a BYU professor" to gain favor with the ladies. 34 wives proved the Talisman worked better than Zoosk.
GiftoAll 10 months ago
@GiftoAll here. Proof is of that is the last two woman Joseph was married to Joseph wasn't even alive, he had been dead for a few years. You bringing up Joseph was married to 34 wives as you do goes to show you don't understand the doctrine of marriage in Mormonism only as far as what you have read from bigots off of Anti Mormon websites. No unhallowed hand shall stop this work from progressing, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth noble,
Boon11000 8 months ago
@Boon11000 Sometime in the future, the Almighty uncreated God is going to destroy the Mormon church. The members holding fast to Joseph Smiths fables are going to fall hard. There is no purgatory or spirit world and there are no second chances.
GiftoAll 8 months ago
@GiftoAll , and independently, till it has penetrated ever continent, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, then shall the Jehovah say the work is done.
Boon11000 8 months ago
@Boon11000 The body of Christ, those who believe that Jesus is the mighty God have arrived on every continent. Christians have been testifying of Christ throughout the world for centuries. The only possible way mormonism could fill the earth is if the followers of Christ were taken from the earth. Mormons would be left to compete against Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and atheism..
GiftoAll 8 months ago
@Boon11000 He was never married to this ladies? hum?Lucinda Morgan Harris 1838 already married to George W Harris. Zina Hunting Jacobs Oct 1841 age 20 already married to Henry Jacobs. Presendia Huntington Buell Dec 1841 age 31 already married to Norman Buell.Sylvia Sessions Lyon Feb 1842 age 23 already married to Windsor Lyon. Mary Rollins Lightner Feb. 1842 age 23 already married to Adam Lightner. Patty Bartlett Sessions march 1842 age 47 already married to David Sessions.Like i said u r a morn
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Did you know your getting your information from a website from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or the Mormon Church? You act as if this is some secret. I have already told you guys there was no sexual relations with these women and Joseph. I have also told you all that these marriage were had little or no effect in this life only in the next did they have effect. I also told you the reason why they were done. Also none of this was done in secret. Do also take note
Boon11000 2 months ago
@Boon11000 Emily D. Partridge (Smith Young) said she "roomed" with Joseph the night following her marriage to him and said that she had "carnal intercourse" with him. (Temple Lot case (complete transcript), 364, 367, 384. Faithful Mormon Melissa Lott (Smith Willes) testified that she had been Joseph's wife "in very deed." (Affidavit of Melissa Willes, 3 Aug. 1893, Temple Lot case, 98, 105. No sexual relations? You should realy get to know your history!!
Chinaculiacan 2 months ago
@Chinaculiacan that there was marriage done after Joseph had already been buried in the ground. From my understanding you don't know the reasons Mormons get married in the temple, but yet you talk to me as if you know more about my religion than I do. I have answering the questions of Anti Mormons for more than 20 years wouldn't you think I have been asked this question say maybe a billion times but I also find it really redundant when you have a person that comes in and starts speaking about
Boon11000 2 months ago
@Boon11000 Marriege done after Joseph had already been buried? oh I see!! So that was done in Gods pleaseing eyes? You Mormons teach that everyone needs a temple marriage in order to enter the top level of the Celestial Kingdom. Yet the Bible has no such emphasis. Luke 20: 34-36 - Neither marry nor given in marriage - children of God. I know your teachings.
Chinaculiacan 2 months ago
@Boon11000 Marinda Johnson Hyde April 1842 age 27 already married to Orson Hyde. Elizabeth Davis Durfee June 1842 age 50 already married to Jabez Durfee. Sarah Kingsley Cleveland june 1842 age 53 already married John Cleveland. You want more? You keep believing in this man. LOL
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
makes me want to puke. the self worship of these people is so pagan at it's core. it is satanic doctrine.
manderbos 11 months ago
@manderbos The Mormon Church doesn't teach anyone to worship any person but Christ.
Boon11000 11 months ago
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Boon11000 11 months ago
@Boon11000 Your christ is the brother of lucifer...he is not God incarnate...he is a very different christ from the one that traditional Christianity worships. And you will never be as God, mormon. There will always only be one God.
RetCrayon 11 months ago
@Boon11000 Mormons do not worship Jesus. They do not pray to Jesus.
GiftoAll 11 months ago
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Glory to God and to Him ONLY.
YamiKazeSora 11 months ago
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For I testify to every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add to these things, God shall add to him the plagues that are written in this book:
Revelation 22:18
mumswording 1 year ago
meh, not sure why anyone would give a crap about something that was in public being put up on youtube
similitudinous 1 year ago
It's crazy that ppl who call themselves Christians think they can become Gods. Pride is toxic to the soul
SantaBarbaraDianne 1 year ago 2
@SantaBarbaraDianne Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. John 10:30-35 Christ said, I and my Father our one. To the Jews this means Christ was the Fathers equal. They picked up stones to cast at him. He asked them why they did this they said for blasphemy. Christ then quoted the scripture in Psalms 82:6 and then said the scripture could not be broken. Rev 3:21 it says
Boon11000 1 year ago
@Boon11000 There's a reason why gods has a small "g". In context "Ye are gods" is describing mortal positions like judges and rulers. It does not mean "Gods" like the eternal God. You don't agree with these verse? Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it]? ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any]. Mar 12:32 ,,,,,,,,: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
GiftoAll 11 months ago
@GiftoAll the scripture was written. At the time when Isaiah wrote this Israel is having problems with worshiping false Gods. He is telling them their is only one God whom they should worship and their is no other around him that they should worship. Mark 12:32 Again you take scriptures out of context the scriptures was only divided up into chapters and verses to make it so it would be easier to quote and find passages of scripture. Again it is talking about worshiping only Christ and none other
Boon11000 11 months ago
@Boon11000 The Israelites were not only warned about worshipping other Gods, they were also warned about believing there were many Gods. The apostles of Christ never taught there were Gods like the Almighty. The Almighty is never described as a "god". There is NO council of many Gods, or an infinite number of Gods who rule over trillions of planets. Satan was cast down wanting to reign in heaven as a God.
GiftoAll 11 months ago
@GiftoAll If a person reads Isa 44 and 48 the whole chapters they will see its talking about worshiping one God not their isn't the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are separate beings. If they were all one being why would Christ say I go to my Father? Why didn't he say I go to myself? When he prayed in the garden why did he do so that would of been kinda of waste because he would be talking to himself? When Christ was baptized was Christ in the clouds, flying around as a dove, and in
Boon11000 11 months ago
@Boon11000 I have told you before. Jesus is not the Father. Jesus is not the Holy Ghost. "Three bear record in heaven, AND THESE THREE ARE ONE". There are not 3 Gods to make up the Godhead or a council of Gods.
GiftoAll 11 months ago
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@SantaBarbaraDianne To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. Doesn't so far fetch anymore does it.
Boon11000 1 year ago
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“But even if we or an angel from heaven (moroni) should preach to you a gospel other than what we have preached to you, curse be on him!” Galatians 1:6-9 Mormon’s are not prepared for the coming apocalypse, Huge Sorrow will be to the mormon who refuse to see the truth, You have been warned your fall will be great. Read the BIBLE ONLY!
imationqwest 1 year ago
Great message that has helped my faith today
Many thanks and hope your day is spent in giving Him thanks with your loved ones
Marc
silentfades 1 year ago
@silentfades Glad I could help.
BOON70 1 year ago
The results are in. You are illiterate and a mormon. You shouldn't be apologizing for anything but yourself.
GiftoAll 1 year ago
@GiftoAll I find it odd you didn't push reply like you usually do. Maybe because you didn't want me reading this. Hmm, why don't I put Dr. beside my name and say their is 92% you believe pigs fly and make some bogus video about it while I am it. If you haven't figure it out anyone can make any type of claim they want well almost and put it on youtube or some other place for people to watch and say I did all this study when their full of it.
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll When did apoligize for anything to begin with. About Dr. Criddles he is a person that is reaching he goes from theory to theory on how the Book of Mormon came about. Take note that before he brought up the theory his first theory was Sidney Rigdon till he realized it didn't have a leg to stand and just like any regular Anti Mormon he goes and makes up something else. You and your alias awol are good examples of that.
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll far from me. To me this seems like what alot of supposed Christians teach their children and say its okay. Dr. Criddles to me is reaching he is making up stuff as he goes because his first theory didn't work nor does his second. Give it time though Dr. Criddles well come up with some other theory in the future.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70 You seem a bit on edge. Are you disturbed or troubled by Dr. Criddle? Try posting a coherent comment next time.
GiftoAll 1 year ago
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@GiftoAll I am talking about people like you they say their Christian but they sure don't act like it.
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll I am surprised at how you try to say I am delusional when I told you that Criddles first theory was that Sidney Rigdon wrote the Book of Mormon was bogus because it wasn't his theory he just used someone elses work and said it was his. When people wouldn't take that in he went on to Soloman Spaulding. While I go over this everyone will see the dirty laundry on Criddles study. Having done this study I wonder if anything Criddles has written has any creditability at all.
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll Problems with "Who really wrote The Book of Mormon" by Craig Criddles
1. Beliefs and Consequences section he never mentions what happened in Waco, TX many years ago. We all do remember those people said they were Christians.
2. His quote you can basically program people with stories and parables. Well doesn't that sound like the Bible? Why we use stories and parables really is to help us remember.
3. He mentions authorship on steroids but he mentions about Solomon Spaulding and Sidney
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll Rigdon. Antis have been trying to prove this theory since the mid 1800s Criddles isn't the first.
4. Overview and story of Solomon Spaulding Manuscripts.
The first manuscript Criddles mentions we know lots about because you can go read it. Doctor Philastus Hurlbut obtained a manuscript through Spalding's widow, Huribut tried getting into a legal despute with Joseph Smith. Dr. Hurlbut delivered this manuscript to Howe. Howe could not find the similarities of The Book of Mormon and the
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll first Manuscript. Now this is were we get the "first" mention of this "second" manuscript was when Howe couldn't find the similiarites Hulbut said their had to be a second manuscript (do take note Criddles mentions nothing of this). While we are at it when we look at The Book of Mormon and do a word print study when it comes to Spaulding the one book with the most likeablitly that Spaulding could of wrote here is the chances that he wrote it the books of Nephi .000000000003%. Your
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll chances of getting hit by lightening are if you live to be 80 years old are 0.000016%. Your chances of getting hit by lightening are better. Do also take note that Hurlburt is an ExMormon. Some major problems with the Spaulding theory.1884 Manuscript Story—Conneaut Creek was recovered by Lewis L. Rice in Honolulu, Hawaii and taken to the Oberlin College Library in Ohio. The story had hardly any likes to the Book of Mormon. Do also take note the text of "Manuscript Story" was published
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll by the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1885, and by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1886 and 1910. Gee why would the church publish this book? Probably to show it had hardly any similarity to the Book of Mormon. Some say that Sidney Rigdon used Spauldings Manuscript, historical record shows that Parley P. Pratt introduced the Book of Mormon to Sidney Rigdon in Nov 1830; problem is The Book of Mormon was published in April 1830. My guess is
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll also many of you listening to Criddles do not know that Spaulding Manuscript was clearly never finished, even after he moved away from all his friends who had claimed to have read or listened to the story.
Here are some references that you all can check out.
Hurlbut was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in June of 1833 (see Brigham H. Roberts, ed., History of the Church [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1948], 1:355). He first heard about the Solomon
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll Spaulding manuscript from the Jackson family (who knew Spaulding personally) while he was lecturing against Mormonism in Pennsylvania. But when Hurlbut asked Mr. Jackson to sign an affidavit stating that there were similarities between Spaulding's manuscript and the Book of Mormon Jackson refused, insisting that "there was no agreement between them" and "express[ing] his indignation and contempt" for Hurlbut's undertaking (Benjamin Winchester, The Origin of the Spaulding Story
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll [Philadelphia: Brown, Bicking, and Guilpert, 1840], 8-9). Either Hurlbut or Howe wrote a letter to Spaulding's widow informing her that her husband's manuscript "did not read as they expected" and they therefore decided against publishing it (Winchester, The Origin of the Spaulding Story, 17).
Oh and this study it was done in four days during my spare time. Imagine what I can bring up in two or three weeks. My conclusion is Criddles can not hold a very dim light let alone a candle to
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll the truth. When it comes down to it I wouldn't trust anything that came from Criddles. I have also read Criddles other works that have nothing to do with the church its all borrowed work. He just rephrases it to sound smart. Your end result is Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdry, Sidney Rigdon, or Solomon Spaulding have no authorship to the Book of Mormon. Any person that goes and honestly studies the Book of Mormon they will find that their is only one possible theory that could be true about
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll The Book of Mormon that is it of Divine Origin.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70 Copy and paste isn't proving anything. I said Sidney and Olivers writing style is all over the Bookofmormon. Criddle didn't use Mormon authors. It doesn't really matter. There is no proof. There never will be any proof to validate the Book of mormon. You are chasing a fable.
GiftoAll 1 year ago
@GiftoAll What you mean is the second Manuscript spoken of by Criddles is made up. Your just like other Anti Mormons as well they never can face the facts.
BOON70 1 year ago
Beware. Lucifer is not Christs spirit brother. Joseph made it all up. Lucifer was a Babylonian king. No one was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ hundreds of years before he was born in Jerusalem, "oops" Bethlehem.
GiftoAll 1 year ago
@GiftoAll For your information the first part isn't copied and pasted.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70 I don't believe there is enough evidence to prove it either way. It stands unresolved. You will call it history, I will call it evidence free fiction.
GiftoAll 1 year ago
@GiftoAll Like I said before Antis will never face the facts that 95% of what they teach isn't true and the other 5% is just so construed to make it sound like something it is not when it comes to Mormonism. My guess is your starting to find it true when I said I have talked with those who oppose the Mormon Church for more than 20 years. Oh and one last thing Howe isn't a Mormon and he even the first Manuscript wasn't as it was claimed to be. My other question is have ever read the first one?
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70 You haven't found any truth. You would refuse everything that doesn't paint a nice picture of the church. Dr. Criddle is a reputable scholar.
Fact. God is not an exalted man.
Bragging is a sure sign of weakness.
Pandering for the church is even worse.
GiftoAll 1 year ago
@GiftoAll Dr. Criddles is just as any other source or information from Anti Mormons seems as the truth on the surface till you go look yourself. Oh and the only part copied is the sources. Do take in mind that some of the sources are of authors that are not Mormon. All your sources come from Criddles do take note that no where does Criddles use any sources. I watched the entire video on youtube he only uses one source. I have lots. Not even the Bible agrees with that for anything to have any
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70 Neither your information or Craigs is valid clear evidence. Sidney and Oliver have a paticular writing style. This writing style is found in the BofM. You're wasting effort and tooting on a whistle only a dog can hear. Another topic. Mormon doctrinate has told you the Word of God, "the Bible" cannot be fully trusted. Jesus is the Word of God. You don't trust Jesus Christ.
GiftoAll 1 year ago
@GiftoAll No its not their has been plenty of word print studies done on the Book of Mormon to prove that it wasn't written by any of them. Oh and I do like how you try to change the subject as well. Also how admit Criddles isn't valid lol. I already told you that Sidney knew nothing of the Church until some time after the Book of Mormon was published. Oliver Cowdry with the word print studies done the chances of Oliver Cowdry writing the one book that comes the closest is the book of Alma
BOON70 1 year ago
@GiftoAll stand. Their is something called the law of witnesses what some call it. That you must two or three witnesses. Criddles has 1. Just from my sources I think i put up 4. Do also take note that I keep log of every response you have ever said to me. If you want to talk about bragging about self you should really read what you type. Don't tell me to copy and paste either when you do it yourself. Antis always seem to hate it when I copy and paste something when they themselves do it.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70 law of witnesses? There are many early court signed affidavits backing up Criddles research. Need a hug? Into guessing now? Show me where I have bragged about my education, how many years I have argued with Mormons and how good I am at keeping records. I don't care if you copy and paste. Try proof reading and give a referrence when you paste. At times, it's a pile of confusion. "Do take note" "your favorite words", I know what a hypocrite means.
GiftoAll 1 year ago