Wood gas distillation

[HazMatLabz]

I think some of the stuff you made would be charcoal, most likely is tar. Heating hydrocarbons (wood is sort of a hydrocarbon) makes charcoal but since it was in water I'm not 100% sure.

[amzuel420]

one more thing. The conventional distillation of wood is an endothermic process. (get's it's heat from other source) So it takes a lot to make a little and there is a chance of an explosion. Remove the air from the still with an internal mounted flame source. When the flame goes out there's no more oxygen. The way we make it an "exothermic" process (producing own heat) replace the oxygen with a syn gas catalyst like co2 . That's how we get so much more product and leave only ash. Be careful!

[BasementBen]

Whoa, to make it "exothermic" all the wood needs is Co2 and heat and it will go on its own boiling the wood?

Hmm, what is that reaction? sounds interesting.

Ben.

[northerbrewer]

I know what he means but there are some problems you need to get the Carbon in that can hot enough that it wants to steal an oxygen atom from the CO2. Thus creating two units of CO. This could be converted to hydrocarbon in in Fisher trop reactor.

Not backyard stuff, I would not know where to begin.

Nothing is free you need to suply heat to drive the reactions or oxygen

[yellowmetalcyborg]

@BasementBen This is the chemical reaction:

CO2+C=>2CO

Although this reaction is slightly exothermic it won't drive a chain reaction throughout your reactor.

[amzuel420]

I don't see the 2nd post...hope you got it. But I use the 1 way 2 lb check valve to make sure no air gets into my methanol still. 2 lbs. of pressure is enough to allow vapors to escape but not allow any gases back in. Those vapors are drawn up the stack by a cool coil enclosed at the top. The coil is copper tube with cold water running through it. It collects the vapors like a dehumidifier. I put a funnel under the coil and ran a line from it through side of the top part of the stack into a can.

[BasementBen]

Hmm, Great information.

I like the idea of the low pressure check valve, I just need to create a reusable heat-proof container that can seal, the seal is the hard part, but maybe I could use Threaded pipes :D

Also, have you ever heard methanol reduces to formaldeheyde in the body?

And that never leaves, I dunno if thats true though.

Ben.

[amzuel420]

I thought maybe I'd follow up on that a bit. If you notice, when anything burns it makes a vapor first. Smoke is the vapor in rapid oxidation. So it's actually that vapor that burns. Now suppose we made it "vaporize" but didn't allow it to burn? You can do this by eliminating the oxygen and simply cooling and collecting these vapors which will turn into liquid when they're cooled. You do not need to use water. And the finished product will be clear. I use a 2lb, one way pressure relief valve.

[amzuel420]

You need to distill the liquid you get from the discharge tube if you're going to use water. Otherwise you can use an isomizing process that takes the wood slightly under the ignition temperature. Collect the vapors the same way you did this. Using that method you can expect to get about 6 gallons of methanol per ton of wood, and you'll have about 1500 lbs of charcoal. We use an endothermic/exothermic process that yields us up to 100 gallons per ton leaving only ash. Don't give up...LOL

[BasementBen]

Hey, thanks for those specs! That is alot of wood! :)

I could think of the charcoal as a good "byproduct" lol, thanks

Ben.

[CrazedPsychic]

here is a thing that can help buy a distillation apprateus that is glass i heres a web site to buy one thats cheep makershed then distill the distllate that you made out of your big apprateus into the glass one that should give you a higher yelid of the methnoal that you want i hope helps you

[BasementBen]

@CrazedPsychic

United Nuclear? :o

Ben.

[CrazedPsychic]

well united nucler is a little bit more on the exspisve and you have to wait a month

[Nitrisbot]

i want my 4 minutes and 6 seconds back

[BasementBen]

You don't need to watch it all solid....

Ben.

[Deerhunter7890]

you not going to get any methanol doing it this way, first of all your overheating the still, sencondly you need a much bigger condenser and lastly it's VERY uneconomical to get methanol the natural way. I distill ethanol and I know first hand, to get about 5 gallons of methanol you need about 1 TON of wood and thats AFTER chemicaly treating the wood

[BasementBen]

@Deerhunter7890

I would have to agree with you, this technique is quite inneficient, but wood gas as a full throttle fuel, I think as I have seen the Downdraft Generators going into trucks? That is the best way to use it, I am also wasting the H, CO, methane into the air.

Ben.

[Kuploosh]

Sweet! First of all, it looks to me like your liquid went up in flames pretty nicely. Don't expect an explosion, what you had was a dirty water-alcohol mixture (even when dry wood burns it gives of water vapor). I'll bet if you simply took that liquid and distilled it (not hot enough to boil water, just alcohol), you probably would have had almost pure methanol that could be used as engine fuel. Bravo!

[BasementBen]

Yep!

I am thinking 175Degrees *F on a portable electric stove would be good.

[jawbraker84]

you should continue/ distill /purify the liquid

[eyeisgreen]

good idea. Is there a lot of free energy escaping because its still gaseous? Any ideas on how to safely pressurise it? You've made plain tar i think try pine wood and it might not smell too wierd. (gheck out ray mears) Might have a go myself soon..

[BasementBen]

Yes, the process I used is very inefficient, and does little to use the available energy.

I have learned after this test that several gases are released, including hydrogen, and carbon monoxide, and methane. All of that was wasted in this process :(

A way to colect those gases would be to cool down the materials that exit the tube, and run them through fine filters and then collect the gas and pressurize it with a compressor.

Ben.

[JAROSLAVAGINA]

i wonder if you could get a gasifier to produce like that?

[tuvoca]

Add more coils to your distillation apparatus since you are still losing good stuff in the steam. Pay special attention to the safety aspects.

Try fractional distillation to separate out the water. You may have to use copper turnings (copper scrubbing pad used to clean dishes might work).

At this stage, you will want to talk to (befriend) an experienced chemist/petroleum engineer (at a college) to get some good ideas. I bet this project would excite them. They can help with safety/supplies.

[BasementBen]

Hmm, This project does need alot more improvements ^^

Yea, the safety aspects of the chemicals worry me. I heard methanol will never leave the body :/

Thanks,

Ben.

[vmelkon]

@BasementBen Your body converts methanol to formaldehyde which causes headache. I don't know if it leaves your body but it probably does. I have heard that if wine and such drinks contain small amounts of methanol, that's the reason you get a hangover (headache?).

[Shendar]

It probably looks like tar because of the soot particles - have you tried running it through a coffee filter?

Also - the reason the distillate didn't burn is probably that there is too much water present. I'll bet there is methanol in it, but you might have to distill it once or twice to get the concentration up high enough.

[BasementBen]

That sounds good idea, My metal can leaked from the intense heat, I need to design a better one. :)

[captaincake5]

hey ben. i hope u know that u just collected smoke. thats what it is. u concentrated smoke and steam.

[BasementBen]

Yes, and smoke is liquid now. :) That is correct. Smoke is fuel, right? Remember we used to make the fires, and all of a sudden the smoke blew up in flames when it was hot enough. :D Boiling wood releases organic volatiles, and leaves carbon, and hard minerals I suppose> So the liquid has usable stuff, but all of it is just junk, needs to be furthur proccesed. Also I suspect little water, as I dried out my materials in the sun.

Thanks,

Ben

[captaincake5]

but smoke doesnt burn naturally. thats why it is released from the fire. it is a waste product itself. some of the compounds in the smoke could be isolated and used i guess, but that is entirely different.

And wood cant boil. that would require it to become liquid and then a gas, which as a carbon compound, it cannot do.

yes, u were right, a lot of the liquid part was water. steam given off by the wet wood.

[BasementBen]

Yea, smoke is given off by a weak fire, mostly steam, and hot fires can vaporize all of its smoke. Yea, you are right that the smoke contains only a minute amount of usable fuel, which makes this process to get methanol unpractical.

About the water, can it really have water even with dry wood? ugg :D

Ben.

[giant648]

looks like cresote

[BasementBen]

Oh yea, the tarry stuff in chimneys?

:D

[nustada]

LOL

You have to figure out a way to get it to ferment first.

Distillation is used to increase alcohol density as yeast dies at about 5-15% alcohol depending on variety and stuff.

And fermentation requires sugar compounds, wood is mostly cellulose.

If you want to accomplish this, you best bet, would be to study how cows stomachs work to make methanol and emulate it.

[BasementBen]

Hmm, your right, something didn't seem right about the liquid. It needed to be boiled or something. Or like you said, further fermented, or processed.

Thanks for the info!

Ben.

[Biggriz86]

one other thing i almost forgot about, im toying with the idea of routing the hot wood gas through an automotive catalytic converter. They use the same catalysts as the Fischer Tropish process, used to create synthetic diesel fuel, the high temp of the wood gas, and the nature of its chemical makeup, in theory, would produce liquid fuel useable in diesel engines. just a theory, but something i plan to test out.

[BasementBen]

That sounds like a great idea, just be careful not to gum up the platinum/rodium catylyst with the tar ^_^. It would be interesting what would come out of it, maybe it would break down some of the complex compounds into more simpler compounds.

Well have a good time and too bad you dont have a camera, but thats okey>

Ben.

[Biggriz86]

im using the pepsi can camp stove to heat a soda can gasifier to test gas production of different samples. i used damp dead leaves today with promising results, but bamboo slivers were far better, ill be testing hardwood shavings tomorrow. I dont have a decent cam or id post up vids of my own to contribute. If you have bamboo, play with it, i had a 12in yellow flame out of the top of my can for a good minute and a half (the can melted from the stove), from about 8in of .5in bamboo.

[BasementBen]

WHoa! bamboo must be really fast release>

[Biggriz86]

you have a very nice setup here, but if youre looking to seperate the wood tar from the alcohol, youll want to modify it slightly. take the tube from the paint can, and route it into a bottle of water, so that the tube vents the gas under the surface. the water acts like a filter, the acetic acid and wood tar stays in solution, the methanol gas bubble up and out, use a second tube to vent the gas into a coil type setup that you already have, to further lower the temp and condence the alcohol.

[BasementBen]

Hey, that is a great idea, and it makes sense to work. I think that the tar liquifies at a higher temperature, so It should work to collect in the water. It might be hard to get pure methanol though, dirty up a gas tank?

Thanks much for your help, I will try to give it a shot>

Ben

[Biggriz86]

in terms of dirtying up a gas tank, given the small ammounts made, and the "dirty" quality of the fuel. I would suggest either a second distilation of the liquid to remove the tars, or at least filtering to remove the particlate matter, and using it to power a lawn mower or chainsaw or something. Thats what im planning on doing. using the lawn clippings and dead leaves in the yard to power the lawn mower and chainsaws.

[BasementBen]

Hey, keep in touch with me, I got the same ideas, lol! Alternative gasoline would be great :)

Yea, i would say make about 1 liter of wood gas liquid and then put it on the stovetop and boil it at a low temp, (170F) and ethenol would only come out, no water or tar.

Thanks again for your help, keep up your ideas

Ben

[BasementBen]

I just noticed I can hear that Ice cream truck in the backround in this video, lol!

[beaumec242]

i think that you should distillate one more time the brown liquid you obtained from the first distillation,it will burn much efficiently

[BasementBen]

Ok, thanks. That sounds a good idea. It seems that it is flamable, but contains some icky stuff that makes it burn like steam or something. Maybe to get methanol fuel for engine, Heat it up to 180 degrees, and alchohols will evaporate, and other stuff like the tar and junk will stay.

Overall it seems ineficient to get a little fuel, but its worth the gas prices, and by the way, its free to do. ^_^

Thanks for commenting the idea,

Ben

[Careica]

YES! You are in bussines now! :D

5 stars!

Hmm...I tought that it make methane gas when you burn wood like that, not liquid...I might be wrong. Or you did just try to distill it to liquid?

[BasementBen]

Thanks much Michael. Well, I am boiling wood in a paint bucket without air. I am guessing That the liquid is a bunch of wood tar, and maybe a little bit of volitale liquids. It smells like barbecue sauce and it burned my nose, hehe. I do think your right, methane is made, as well as hydrogen gas and carbon monoxide. And all of those are not distillable, and they were wasted in the air. So my idea of getting liquid fuel seems possible, but inneficient, and poisonous. Oh well.

Thank you again.

[BasementBen]

Oh, and as for my Biogas, well I tried to put fresh grass in it, and it isnt rotting very quickly. So I dont know when to make a video of it. I think I will show it today, and then show production and uses later.

Alright, thanks for your comments, they encourage me.

[Careica]

Well. Maybe you should try to put grass in warm water. About 30-40´C water temperature. Then mix liquit slowly, and just collect gas.

You can also make methane from food waste. I think it could produce even more than grass. I will go and take video about my cell and show production of it tonight.

[BasementBen]

Alright, so in Finland you are up? cool!

Well I agree with you that grass isnt as potent as manure or rotting vegetables and food. So that will be another test.

My thought was that grass is everywhere, and easy to get, so testing will be done.

Your idea of warm water will work, good idea. But making warm water in a energy deprived situation would be tricky. But that hasnt happened yet, lol.

I cant wait to see your new effecient cell,

talk to you later.

[Careica]

Now Im at 15:54 in finland now.

Put water on sunny place and just wait it warm up :D

Or put it in that container which was in this video upon that fire, it could make water warm in couple of minuites, I think.

My cell is allmost ready. Problem is that I need to buy 15mm2 wire and it cost 15,90€ per meter. I need one meter but still I need to first plan out how I will connect that fat wire on my cell. I dont want to throw 15,90€ on thrash can :) When wires are ready, I will make LPM.

[BasementBen]

Oooo that is a very good idea, using the sun to heat up water in a black metal container. THanks. That will help biogas to start up well. It is now in my basement, which is cold. So that is the big problem.

Yes, copper wire is getting expensive these days. I collect bags of wire from trash items. I hate throwing metal away, except steel which is 2cents a pound.

Its gonna be exciting to be able to see LPM on your cell, thanks much.

[dmanubuntu]

nice vid keep em comin

[BasementBen]

Thank you David, I hope to post more on this and biogas in the next 24-30 hours.

[dmanubuntu]

wow that was cool keep em comin