These guys are real clowns. I thought I might get some interesting information but these guys just don't understand economics. The problem with GM, Ford, Chrysler is cost structure. It's that simple. They must pay about $2,000 per car for legacy costs. This is killing them. The UAW has destroyed the American Auto industry. These guys simple aren't addressing the problem. If the Big 3 had a competitive cost structure they would have any problems compeating.
Why is there such problems with the American auto bailout, but OK with the bank bailouts that was totally unrestricted, leaving the same ones in charge that ran them in the ground to start with?
BTW, banks froze loans, leaving the public no way to buy vehicles, no sale. The petroleum industry, who have been able to make huge profits by gas prices not reflecting from oil barrel price. Big oil has us fooled by reasuring us we aren't paying 5 bux a gal, when we are paying $1.50, yet should be $1.00
i say fuck the heads of GM and Chrystler, its there fault that noone wants to buy the crap they flood into dealers.
Harley Davidson is also hurting but they make a quality ride.
Volvo is down to only selling 20% of the amount of cars per month that they sold last year by a california dealer. and they make great cars. they may not have pazaze but they run with the likes of BMW and audi.
personaly I dream at night of an 'every mans car' but it was built 40 years ago and half of my dream is in rebuilding it to be able to run with a c6 if not a z06.
ask me what i think of todays 'American' cars.......P.O.S. its the 21st centry and there putting drum brakes in all there vehicles that arn't preformance modles(Ford focus, GMC Equinox...)
thear are other amarican car companys give the money to them they have buit cars and arn't asking for a hand out some one who can manage will buy the cheavy plants and make cars dodge has ben rocky and had bailouts already and hear we are again
AIG, GM, Chrysler, Citibank, Bank of America must go. How do you save a dying company. You can't, lets put this money to good use like healthcare and education. Who cares about cars right now and ever again hopefully We don't need these companies
Well, my idea of a better american vehicle would be something on the sorts of the toyota corolla, yeah I know, but the Corolla is made for and by the American market and it works, it sells a lot and it just works...
The Chevy Cruze will be better than the Corolla. And GM just might made money on it. Up to now GM lost money on every small car they ever made. If they sold twice as many economy cars, they would have lost even more money. GM needs a cost structure they can live with. The UAW must go if we are to have a domestic car manufacturing industry.
Looks like what it comes down to is none of ceos are willing to take a pay cut to keep their jobs....Didn't the uppers at Toyota do that? Maybe that would help out alittle. It would show that they love the job they do...I know I would love to work for GM. Lots of talent over there, and lots of EGO!!!
10:50 Right there is the very core problem with the US car industry. If you don't care about what you do for a job, you will not make the best product.
the zr1 never shook up the supercar world as the ford GT did even jay leno new that a zr1 was a corvette with a difrent engine and that you could bildt a
z06 to be as good as a zr1 i will say the GTR shook up the supercar world as the ford GT
I am sure it has been said, however why are we (the taxpayer) bailing out a business? This is crap. I am a small business owner, if I made a business mistake I am left with the results. I would not expect someone else to fix my problems. I understand that peoples jobs are at stake with the automakers. What about the rest of the nations jobs that are at stake, or have already been lost? In my opinion it's just wrong to support someones mistakes, or misfortunes!
I am sure it has been said, however why are we (the taxpayer) bailing out a business? This is crap. I am a small business owner, if I made a business mistake I am left with the results. I would not expect someone else to fix my problems. I understand that peoples jobs are at stake with the automakers. What about the rest of the nations jobs that are at stake, or have already been lost? In my opinion it's just wrong to support someones mistakes, or misfortunes!
I am sure it has been said, however why are we (the taxpayer) bailing out a business? This is crap. I am a small business owner, if I made a business mistake I am left with the results. I would not expect someone else to fix my problems. I understand that peoples jobs are at stake with the automakers. What about the rest of the nations jobs that are at stake, or have already been lost? In my opinion it's just wrong to support someones mistakes, or misfortunes!
i doubt chevy and all of them are gonna make anything beter.... just make the same they got now and hope they sell.. but it would be cool if they made light weight cheap RWD cars.. like the 240, miata, ae86..... cars like that... like the cobalt but RWD haha.. or the srt-4
well.... tru... but if there is money in compact "sporty" cars like the srt-4 and cobalt, scions and stuff.. then y not save a few dollars and just make them rwd.... or does it cost more to make a rwd then a fwd?
Front wheel drives are popular because they are cheaper to make and you get a bit more interior and trunk space because all the moving parts are up front.
This is A CRIME that we are FORCED by our govt to pay nearly $1,000 each to TEMPORARILY save these FAILED car companies!!!!!!!!! All this will do is allow the Fat-ass CEO billionaires to collect MORE money to pay for their lavish lifestyles while we working stiffs pay for their BONUSES while we stick to driving USED CARS! Keep your car and take care of it. Stop giving those billionaire CROOKS all your hard-earned money!
I think there are many people who feel the way we do, but many are afraid to speak out. YOU AND I AREN'T!!! I will say it again out loud.. WE WORKING CLASS PEOPLE ARE BEING ROBBED BLIND BY THE BILLIONAIRES WHO CAN'T EVEN OPERATE A SUCCESFUL BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chrysler DESERVES to die. None of their products stand out in any way and none of their new ones are worth cents let alone billions of dollars. GM, as you guys said, CAN make good cars, WHEN THEY TRY. The new Malibu and CTS/CTS-V are proof. The ZR1 is a niche car so it doesn't count. If Ford can bring its Europe line here, then they can survive, but they have to try harder than they are now. The government should stop giving Chrysler money and start collecting on the loans given so far.
well some of the cars are actually pretty good but it the attention to details that American cars don't pay attention to like their competition does. They make ugly cars, that don't give good enough gas mileage to compete with like the Honda Accord and cars like that, they have one American car that competes with it a Chevy Malibu....really a Malibu my dad had a 2001 Malibu, i hated it no design, no power, and no fun to drive. so they really need to step their game up
I want a car that will last. I've had 10 brand new mid level vehicles in the last 25 years and your always wondering whats going to go wrong next. Something extra always needs replaceing when you take it in for regulare maintenance. And its always expensive. Why can't they put a few dollars more into the initial build ,, wait I know why its called stream revenue.
Let Crysler die. I have a feeling Crysler is going to take that money and somehow pocket it. Save GM cause there the ones at least building some decent cars and showing some sort of effort in there company. BTW G419.. nice valve table.
1. a) Big 3 must be leaders of innovative concepts and ideas, not just play catch up w/ Germany and Japan.
The big 3 was more innovative before the 80's and 90's, and they did well. They're getting there today, but not enough b) More eye catching achievements eg, ACR, ZR1, Cobalt SS. But not JUST performance; more MAINSTREAM breakthroughs needed
2. Improve int. quality.
3. End all failing programs to help support R&D for above
I completely agree. American car companies need to come up with some new and innovative ideas to take back the american car buyers market. Right now Japan owns most of the US just because of the vehicles they produce, not saying its entirely bad by any means but if american car companies want to take back what they once had, they need to roll out something no one will expect.
They've just recently begun to market Cadillac to younger buyers. It's still an "old man's car."
I'd actually recommend GM to use younger people in their ads, possibly even celebrities. Travis Barker wouldn't mind getting paid for that.
Toyota successfully targeted the younger crowd with a very good marketing campaign for young people, esp w/ scion; sponsoring concert tours, snow boarding events, etc
I have yet to see such a good marketing campaign by GM.
I've always been a GM fan. Then again i don't buy new cars so i really don't pay much attention to how or whom they market to. I still thing that dumping the High Performance Division is a stupid move but then again, that doesn't mean you won't be able to get those cars. I hope this whole issue gets sorted out faster than what their original projections are.
remember in the late 70's early 80's Chryslers was on the ropes and look at how they kept 10,s of 1000's of people working paying taxes and paid the money back EARLY!! It was worth it then and it's worth it now. The real unemployment numbers and these are goverment numbers is actually at 13.5 . If you let GM and Chrysler go bankrupt you can almost double that number. Every other country protects their auto industry the goverment won't let these company's go bankrupt they can't afford it.
You never mentioned the new fiat alliance Chrysler has and you didn't mention the new phenox V6 that I have heard a few things about. I thing a few good cars from fiat and a good replacement for the mid and full size car will mostly get Chrysler back on track. The new Ram has a nice interior and I am sure they will be able to bring that to the rest of there cars
GM should make a mini cooper like car. with independent suspension all the way around, small efficient engine, good looks. it would be succesfull if it looks right and handels just as good if not better. Mini Cooper sell really well even in this economy. if they make it starting at 15 grand it will be a great seller. think about it. a mini cooper competitor for 5 grand less.that 25 percent off a mini. just a thought
Trying to undercut Europeans and Japanese pricing is part of what got the big 3 into this mess in the first place. If they concentrate on quality instead of building to a price that undercuts other companies, they will reap longer term benefeits.
It's no just big 3 who have been trying to cut production costs as much as possible over past years, the German are doing it too. Look how Mercedes and VW have fallen from the top.
I don't mean the recent financial crysis. I was saying that VW and Mercedes had top notch quality before 90-ties, the use of materials was excellent. Then they started saving everywhere.
I think I parting of GM would actually benefit the market. Instead of cutting lines, let them split off and reignite American Engineering by spreading the competition
I would like to see GM downsize by picking its 3 top brands, making completely seperate companies and picking a CEO for each one. People do not need/want many cars right now. The cars made by each one need to be very good and compete with foreign companies.
I would somewhat agree but i think it needs to be a car that widely appeals similar to hondas and toyotas. Yes old people like them, yes I the 17 year old thrill seeker, like them as well.
I will admit the CTS-V is a fine example of a car, but it's more of a enthusiast vehicle not many of us can afford nor will ever get to drive. I'm talking about cars like the current Impala, in general I find it so boring and generic it's like they don't have a passion anymore and just gave up.
There is nothing exciting about American sedans, they just end up being used as mass fleet vehicles for rental places and government use. As a consumer I don't want to be associated with bland boring fleet vehicles.
a niche car for enthusiasts, hardly enough to make up for the rest of the bland midsized segment. For every one CTS-V, there are 10 base Impalas and Tauruses on the road.
GM and Ford will survive this mess. Chrysler will be sold or merged with another company (maybe VW). They'll become a private label car maker, meaning any car company can ask them to build a car with their name on it. And, Cerberus, which owns Chrysler, also owns GMAC, which became a bank and got additional funding from TARP ($5 billion). So hypothetically speaking, if the investors of Cerberus were to sell the company, they would get their initial investment back + profits. Garage419, got cash?
What If the big 3 started creating products for their older vehichles? I mean ones from like the mid 70s to now? They talk about all this hybrid stuff, well then whats a cheap and effective way to do it? There are cars on the road that are just terrible, why not create a kind of "update" program, in which you develop hybrid conversions for some of their past cars? As well as maybe updating them in other ways, such as improving the level of safety, driveability and comfort.
no one would spend money to turn an old car into a hybrid, it just wouldn't be worth the time, work, or money. and the big 3 have enormous lots of unsold brand new cars, which are a much bigger problem than helping people improve their old cars.
yeah the high-performance market is what GM wants to look like and wants to be famous for high fit and finish cars, but really, out of every cobalt you might see on the street, how many are SS's not too many, same as the CTS and the CTS-V. the base cars are what are still selling, and this is what they need to focus on. Thanks
you guys... honestly that leo guy is the only well informed one. do you realize that it isnt the quality that GM wants to improve, its consolidating thier resources! Yeah they cut out their high-performance programs, Because they cant afford to keep it going. Its not about what car is the coolest and keeping that one, its about trying to keep their base market alive, and that base market is regular commutter vehicles, which is what the high-performance division is being worked into.
Right now, yes, they will do whatever they have to do to stay alive. But poor quality has been GM's problem from the mid-1970's right up until very recently. Or, more importantly, the perception of poor quality, which comes from cheap interiors, iffy reliability, and large body panel gaps with squeaks and rattles. These problems lasted for years and years, and some of them continue today.
I don't think that Gm or any of the Amarican car companies or going to survive. However I do think there's going to be a great Amarican car, from a great Amarican company. But that company will rice as the big 3 will fall. Also I think that what the government is doing by means of loans and bailouts is plain wrong, I mean how or they planning to help these people in 3 to 4 years when the monney is gone. Cause as it's going at the moment the big 3 are as fuel-efficient as their cars. LPWCEB
The "Better American Car" would have the mechanical reliability of Ford, the interior comfort of Chrysler, and the design and appeal of GMs. If the three companies could merge, and create the automobile listed above, it would get noticed.
The US car companies need to come up with new brand names to get rid of the old stereotypes (specially on newly designed models like the Malibu). Buick introduced some futuristic cars for the Chinese market; but most Americans would not buy those same cars just because it's a Buick. Once they change the names of the redesigned models, they'll start selling more. Once you build a new car, get rid of the old name. GM needs to reduce its brands to Chevy and Cadillac & get rid of some models.
Not all American cars are crap. New models, like the Malibu, Corvette, & CTS, are great cars (design and built). Plus, a lot of European cars have quality problems too. I have an '08 Audi A4 with 15K miles and I've already replaced the radiator, transmission and the conv. top (all under warranty but still). Before that, I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee with 150K miles without any problems. Would you rather pay $60K for a car and have problems or pay $30K & have problems? It's mostly an image problem!
these financially troubled companies not only the auto makers but all the rest to this wont happen again in this shape and form. but thanks for the good topic hope to stir a buzz on wht i've just said :-)... ps can u guys make more episodes like this where theres more then 2 voices heard for new networks car people
... and know wht "WE" want not them telling us wht we should have, bein cheaply made engineered, and unappealing products. i mean ever1 wants to look cool now' days and lets face it american made is not tht cool unless ur buying some thing like a cadillac r wht have you. but to answer the ? i do think with better advertiseing and teaser vids on tv (wht the pro makers do) will in effect help change mind in in turn sell more cars n gettin our hard earned money back. but govt does need to guide...
business and industry should be all about survival of the fittest ... american car companies have been the weakest for the past 3 decades. let them die out ... the strong shall live and the weak shall perish ... that is the law of nature.
morbid and cruel, maybe ... but that is the only way to strengthen industries. you can't expect the public to act as a crutch too a US auto industry that's limping around and can't even pull it's own weight and pay its own way.
hey guys liked the group discussion. my personal opinion is tht i do believe tht its is a good idea to help these companies with the financial crisis, only bc people need jobs.. tht said i feel tht the govt need to stress tht they do have to be developing new technology, better bells and whistles tht will kind of lure buyers to the main objective of buying cars. and also i must say each of these companies should do a survey with the general public and those who watch these shows like 419...
GM & Ford should invest that bailout money and buy new tech for car mftg. Build new Brands, for ex: chevy to be truck based and mainstream, saab be sporty and sligthly lux etc. Ford be mainstream cars or buy a new brand like Aptera, tesla & Fisker. companies that are building interesting cars with brand new technology that will drive up sales
People want a car that's different, well made, fun and ecofriendly to drive or at least think it is. I just hope Chrysler vanish for US sake
you guys hit everything on the head. The Performance Division of GM is the star of American cars. Its amazing that in 2004/5 the Ford GT came out and shook up the supercar world. THe ZR1 is the same thing now. How can we let 2 companies that have given us so much go down the tubes? Maybe if the performance divisions were further seperated from the rest of the companies themselves. Ford & GM make good trucks and sports cars. THe problem is the lame stuff inbetween. Maybe they should just cut thos
I think a good a good American car looks like the European Ford Focus. We need cars that are quick, comfortable, fun, and affordable. With ford's decision to bring both the Euro style Focus and Fiesta to the US markets its obvious why they didn't need bailout money.
Chrysler is done and i think its time for GM to cut a few lines... Possibly look at cutting Hummer, Pontiac, and Buick... just to get the ball rolling again...
ok guys just some feedback. i like the debate and all but can you guys do like a mixture of talking and some cool car videos/pics/sounds. some episodes are just car porn and others are full of watching u guys argue about cars. dont get me wrong i love debating that very same topic but i dont really enjoy listening to others do it that much. but u can still do that just put some car porn in there for shts and giggles.
THAT IS WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FLAMEMASTER, AND SOME OF US LIKE THIS FORMAT!!! There are plenty of "car porn" vids on you tube for you to watch. Adults are talking, you should go to the other room!
i say fuk it..they should change chrysler to crisis cuz honestly like u guys said they cant make it. they will fail to the exent of extinction, but GM on the other hand is making better products although their lower class cars r not that comparable worldwide they might have aome ups. GM has the ability to make amazing cars if they really put the money and effort but they dont know if it will be a good outcome. the future of american cars are still on the rise but for now they lay in a crisis.
i think new independent car companies will come out and the big 3 will eventually die. then the American car will be able to compete with foreign cars
i agree the big three are gonna fall and independents are gonna get the spotlight because i feel that independents focus more on the car quality.. why? because those car makers know that there cars unlike those of the big three wont sell unless they are well built and worth the money the only car that might survive might the mustang for its engine
i think gm is going to survive because they are coming out with great cars and even concepts such as the stingray but chrysler i dont really see any future to it i send an email to chrysler about the challenger asking why they dont improve the transmission of the challenger v6 (it has 4 speed automatic only not manual, really slow 8.1 sec 0-60) and they reply me by saying that it will be a great idea to put a manual and make it faster but by the economy they will not do it. whatcanuspectfromthem
I've been saying this for a while now, GM USA needs to take a leaf from their Australian and European counterparts. People in both those areas are actually proud to own a GM vehicle. My Holden SSV (G8 GT) isn't perfect, but I love it!! GM USA needs to make people LOVE their cars! Sounds stupid, but that's my view on it.
Well the big three don't invest towards other technology other than their own Automotive. When compare to other Foreign, such as Japanese, Korean, Germany,etc, have other branches other than their own Automotive such as their Electrical engineering, robotics,etc. American Compaines know how to make cars.
Just the Brand name and their marketing just not fit well for future generations. It really aims towards older crowd who have money to spend. American companies in their European and Australia section is example such designs of good cars. America tend to get the boring cars
At 6:47 Leo wins. The whole nation should hear that. That's what this stupid country gets for throwing $18 billion at a company whose stock's worth only $4 bil. Might as well nationalize it, nurse it back, and sell back the stock when it's higher at a profit for Uncle Sam.
To me a better American car would be one that had more effort put into it. Use more high quality interior materials and stop with the abundance of plastic all the time. Make a vehicle that is eye catching, high tech, reliable, good on gas but faster than molasses, and just something that people want to buy.
But in my opinion, I think Ford is going on the right path now, but I don't think I can say the same for the other 2....which is sad.
They make excellent vehicles because they charge more? NO, they charge more BECAUSE they build good vehicles. It's the other way around. Higher prices follow higher quality, so until they make some decent cars they aren't going to get away with higher prices.
I doubt this will result in a better american car.
GM and Chrysler will probably die and if Ford does not get its act together it may follow. OR the government will take full control of all of the small three.
Matt, you guys left out the most important part of the problem for American auto manufacturers. You failed to bring up the topic of the UAW and union labor. Toyota spends $1400 less per car than GM because they do not have unionized labor. Think if GM could save half of that! GM can build so much better stuff than Toyota, but they're fighting with their hands behind their backs because of the UAW and the chokehold they have on GM. They build good cars, they just don't make any money off of them.
a better amarican car is one that feels just as good as a toyota or mazda when u get in it and has a much lower price tag because it wasnt shiped in over seas
Most "foreign" cars are built in America. Granted your NSX's and GTR's weren't/aren't built here (correct me if I'm wrong of course), but your Civics, your base Lancers, your Camries are all built here from Japanese parts. Of course, a lot of the base parts are made in Japan/China, so there are some shipping costs, but it's not that much more than US companies getting all their parts from Mexico.
GM has to go with the flow "economy" Give me a car that has American Roots with modern tech. give me a RWD. not so much luxury, cheap and fuel effecient, reliable and fun to drive "handles". pretty much a RWD or AWD focus or cobalt. it'll beat any imports. oh and dont forget the AMERICAN GROWL NO FARTS all this for 30,000 to 40,000 dollar range
if i had 30k to buy a new car, i dont think i could come up with one american car to even consider. its true the NA manufactures make some quality products, but they just are not appealing / exciting enough to buy.
if they could offer something with a 50mpg diesel that looks ok and was quicker around a track than a 370Z, I would buy it.
the entire european ford lineup is cool, why are none of them on sale in NA ?
better amrican car to me, would be a EVO/STi fighter, fun, fast, cheap. Ford Already has a EVO/STi fighter (Focus RS) but have not brought it over here yet.
and as for better mpg give me a break i mean my dad drives a 89 escort and gets 40mpg. and thats from 89 so if we had the tech then to do it why don't we have it now? was it burned? or just forgotten. most people dont understand what the chemical reaction in an engine is, but if you do then you should know that you can get a 100mpg easily without giving up performance, its not hard but the oil compainys stop it. same way they stopped my hydrogen engine mod
I think building a better quality car for GM means forgetting about the state of the economy and political madness and getting back to what they used to do back in the '60's.....making the top product in every class they have....which also includes making the performance division a bigger part of their regular cars as well as the SS models. Like Matt said, GM can make interiors and build cars to compete with the Euro's (like the CTS-V), but they have to actually do it before things will change.
a better american car is a car that doesn't focus mainly of speed and power.. better american cars will have affordability, style, fun, and good mpg along with it.
GM should take a text book look, from Nissan and Toyota. They only had one extra division that is Lexus and Infinity. They didn't have that many division. GM have to many companys and they need a major trim. They should keep GMC for light /Heavy duty trucks and their SUV. Chevy should only be a car division, get rid of thier Trucks and SUVs. As for Caddy they should keep thier line up.
i em no a american but i think thouse companies should certeny attack customers sense for patriotism.... and even if they are making crap cars they should advertise somethink like" be true patriot buy american car help our econony and soliders in iraq" i think lots of dum viligers will buy that... and smart americans drive europien or japan cars..
I'd like US cars to be lightweight and funny when it comes to turning.. In other words, I'd like it to be fast and funny without the need of 500hp and v8..
Around 1000 Kilos, perhaps less, and up to 2 litres engine, perhaps even smaller.. But with good turning and acceleration..
Something in the league of Lotus Elise.
(If a Ford Mustang V8 costs $20 000 in the US, it will cost over $200 000 to get with license plates in Norway, because of hp, displacement and weight)
Great episode G419, nice idea of a round table debate,
As for the big three, I live in Europe, and I think if Ford brings their Euro cars to the U.S. they'll be doing just fine.
For GM, I think it was a bad move getting rid of the performance division, because sportyness can get your brand a good name, so normal people will buy the regular cars to. GM can make good cars, the Opel lineup in Europe isn't bad, the insignia is a great car. So they should manage with some effort :)
yeah exactly. GM cutting the performance division is like castrating a horny 18yr old boy, it makes him totally useless lol. There are plenty of other options. for instance, cut Saab, Saturn, and Buick, make only cars like the GTO and G8 for Pontiac, use GMC for the SUV's and Trucks, and keep Chevy as the performance division that it has been for the past 30 years but keep only what's needed. Make a RWD impala, keep the new malibu, the vette, the Cruze, Camaro, and the Volt, and Caddy the luxery
well they can make something other then just strait performance cars, i mean just fun good everyday cars. like the gti or a4 or bmw 3series its fun, pretty quick, and gets good mpg, and is still good for a family and everyday. if gm and chrysler made something like that ontop of the gto and and gxp's i would buy it. or even bring there euro's to the usa, that would be great thats what fords doing. the euro line is so much better its sad, i want a good fun american car again, but bmw ftw
yeah that's what i mean when i say they should incorporate the performance division into the lower model malibu's and impala's and stuff, kinda like they did with the new V6 Camaro. I honestly believe, had they made the impala rwd like they had made plans to do, it would have sold a whole lot better, same with making a AWD Cobalt SS. But yeah, i want a good fun american car to drive too, and they can do it easily, but they simply choose not to...
If GM want to survie, they need to trim alot off their plate. Get rid of Pontiac, saab, Hummer, Saturn and buick. Keep GMC as a light/hearvy duty Truck division and get rid of thier SUVs. Chevy need to trim thier model line up to keep it simple. That's I can think of right now.
I agree with armyguy822. Why in world should they survive. They (CEO's) should be held accountable for what they are doing to their company. They think by bring electric cars is going make up for it. I don't think so. Only why they are in this mess, because thier cars don't hold vaule and that why nobody not buying amercian as they use to. They focus so much SUV and trucks, that they total forgot how to build decent cars that appeal to customers.
I think that we should not support companies that are going under. That makes no sence at all. We should buy what we like without being harrased if it's not american.
thats not what they r saying. they r saying that we are giving billions to compainies that say will change and make better cars when they really have no plans to gm and chrystler r not going to make anything appeling 2 the current market. i mean would u rather have a malibue/ sebring or an audi a4 or bmw 335 or even a lexus 300. thats an easy choice. and the few appealing fun cars they have they are canceling making. if gm and chr actually used the cash 2 make cars people wanted we would be good
first of all yours english is just horried, worst then mine i that event not my first tounge...
you got the point why isnt crappy us cars good on market... but you dont get the bailout....
i live in europe and reputation of us cars are just awfoul here and by pay cray amounts for them when i can easly have bmw/vw-(audi) with great warranty, service, they have great styling and dont fallapart like us ones...
2 bonaquak i am an american and i would like to say that most americans are not proud of our cars and we think that they r not that great, thats why we r not buying them. second ... is just horried, worst then mine... you got some grammer issues buddy so dont go insulting other people when u cant even right a correct sentance. im guessing your french(correct me if im wrong) but french cars r the biggest pieces of shit ever so screw you jackoff
i had to spell it that way to make my point fit in the 500 character count. i have perfect english. you on the other hand sound like a retarted five year old on a sugar high. and working in the usa's financial industry and auto industry i get the "loans" far better then you ever will. a bmw tech and i own and rent forclosed homes to make the big bucks on the side so i get the market pretty good right now but nice try...dumbass
I believe you're wrong, propping up the big three will only make the depression worse and the depression will be prolonged. The whole thing about propping them up is to delay the depression. Also try spell check buddy, "evet" "mutch," would help get your points across better.
I want to see GM/Chrsler get rid of cars that aren't too appealing. ITs not cool when they make fun of their own car (that malibu commercial). Plus they have to many brand names; get rid of buick, pontiac, saturn. Do something!! I don't know where to begin with Chrysler. Why did yall say that Chrysler didn't have to report how they spent the bailout money??
the better American car is a car that isnt made with too many plastics, has unique styling that ditches generic and quiet frankly boring designs, has decent fuel economy, good reliability, performance and features that just break away from the competitors - if i sound like im being too picky, dont blame me then for buying Japanese or German
Really there have been other car companies out there before, that had failed or ran out of business. I just don't see why they stop now. They had there run/fun they should just end it already. Not everything is going to last forever.
Ok here is my spin on this whole issue. FoMoCo seems to be set in taking the burden on their own shoulders, so let them sink or swim...my guess is they will see through to the end. GM and Chrysler are on the ropes in a big way; Chrysler doesn't have anything innovative or promising on their horizon, and have nothing worthwhile except for maybe the Jeep brand. GM is in equally as bad shape but they are putting out better product and really appear to be trying harder.
Solution: Chrysler dies. This leaves the two larger birds (ford & gm) to split the worms, and possibly regain equilibrium. This is a best foot forward situation; Chrysler is not going to cut it.
While the bailout will not do anything directly that results in better product, I see the beginnings of a commitment on the parts of Ford and GM to produce better cars. The problem is, it will take maybe 10 years for anything worthwhile to come of it, though.
On the subject of GM being able to build a quality car, for the love of god THEY HAVE SAAB and they did NOTHING with it. Saab still has only a few models and they're being totally ignored. Europe has like only 2 models and they're OLD. and now they're dumping the best thing they have :D
IMHO GM has a major fault in the leadership department.
GM = THE FARTHEAT OF AMERICA
VettesAre4FAGGOTS 2 years ago 2
I my self only love European cars.
However.........
I cant deny that cars like the Corvett ZR1 and Cadilac Cts V are ridiculous preformers and it would be sad to see them go.
Its ironic how as soon as these type of american cars get on top that they would just cancell preformance development.
Howie262 2 years ago
These guys are real clowns. I thought I might get some interesting information but these guys just don't understand economics. The problem with GM, Ford, Chrysler is cost structure. It's that simple. They must pay about $2,000 per car for legacy costs. This is killing them. The UAW has destroyed the American Auto industry. These guys simple aren't addressing the problem. If the Big 3 had a competitive cost structure they would have any problems compeating.
juscurious 2 years ago
Why is there such problems with the American auto bailout, but OK with the bank bailouts that was totally unrestricted, leaving the same ones in charge that ran them in the ground to start with?
BTW, banks froze loans, leaving the public no way to buy vehicles, no sale. The petroleum industry, who have been able to make huge profits by gas prices not reflecting from oil barrel price. Big oil has us fooled by reasuring us we aren't paying 5 bux a gal, when we are paying $1.50, yet should be $1.00
Maples01 2 years ago
what about Ford, will they live...
i say fuck the heads of GM and Chrystler, its there fault that noone wants to buy the crap they flood into dealers.
Harley Davidson is also hurting but they make a quality ride.
Volvo is down to only selling 20% of the amount of cars per month that they sold last year by a california dealer. and they make great cars. they may not have pazaze but they run with the likes of BMW and audi.
CrazyDave650 2 years ago
personaly I dream at night of an 'every mans car' but it was built 40 years ago and half of my dream is in rebuilding it to be able to run with a c6 if not a z06.
ask me what i think of todays 'American' cars.......P.O.S. its the 21st centry and there putting drum brakes in all there vehicles that arn't preformance modles(Ford focus, GMC Equinox...)
CrazyDave650 2 years ago
thear are other amarican car companys give the money to them they have buit cars and arn't asking for a hand out some one who can manage will buy the cheavy plants and make cars dodge has ben rocky and had bailouts already and hear we are again
sirlonghair 2 years ago
AIG, GM, Chrysler, Citibank, Bank of America must go. How do you save a dying company. You can't, lets put this money to good use like healthcare and education. Who cares about cars right now and ever again hopefully We don't need these companies
jovejean 2 years ago
Do these guys only own Black clothing ?
paulstewartcrane 2 years ago
probably
CrazyDave650 2 years ago
Well, my idea of a better american vehicle would be something on the sorts of the toyota corolla, yeah I know, but the Corolla is made for and by the American market and it works, it sells a lot and it just works...
ckboy023 2 years ago
The Chevy Cruze will be better than the Corolla. And GM just might made money on it. Up to now GM lost money on every small car they ever made. If they sold twice as many economy cars, they would have lost even more money. GM needs a cost structure they can live with. The UAW must go if we are to have a domestic car manufacturing industry.
juscurious 2 years ago
Looks like what it comes down to is none of ceos are willing to take a pay cut to keep their jobs....Didn't the uppers at Toyota do that? Maybe that would help out alittle. It would show that they love the job they do...I know I would love to work for GM. Lots of talent over there, and lots of EGO!!!
chrisdel157 2 years ago
10:50 Right there is the very core problem with the US car industry. If you don't care about what you do for a job, you will not make the best product.
cookiehead2 2 years ago
the zr1 never shook up the supercar world as the ford GT did even jay leno new that a zr1 was a corvette with a difrent engine and that you could bildt a
z06 to be as good as a zr1 i will say the GTR shook up the supercar world as the ford GT
andrestnt 2 years ago
-I think GM is gonna be able to pull out of this mess. They have good cars, the only problem is that they started making them late.
-Ford's not in a mess but could do better if they brought over more cars from Europe.
-Chrysler....well I don't know. I just hope they bring Alfa Romeo over to the US, just for the next few years at least :D
viktord1 2 years ago 3
"Ford could do better if they brought over more cars from Europe" If only they would listen, very good comment... You hit the nail on the head.
togglenuts 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I am sure it has been said, however why are we (the taxpayer) bailing out a business? This is crap. I am a small business owner, if I made a business mistake I am left with the results. I would not expect someone else to fix my problems. I understand that peoples jobs are at stake with the automakers. What about the rest of the nations jobs that are at stake, or have already been lost? In my opinion it's just wrong to support someones mistakes, or misfortunes!
Bad99Saturn 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I am sure it has been said, however why are we (the taxpayer) bailing out a business? This is crap. I am a small business owner, if I made a business mistake I am left with the results. I would not expect someone else to fix my problems. I understand that peoples jobs are at stake with the automakers. What about the rest of the nations jobs that are at stake, or have already been lost? In my opinion it's just wrong to support someones mistakes, or misfortunes!
Bad99Saturn 2 years ago
I am sure it has been said, however why are we (the taxpayer) bailing out a business? This is crap. I am a small business owner, if I made a business mistake I am left with the results. I would not expect someone else to fix my problems. I understand that peoples jobs are at stake with the automakers. What about the rest of the nations jobs that are at stake, or have already been lost? In my opinion it's just wrong to support someones mistakes, or misfortunes!
Bad99Saturn 2 years ago
i doubt chevy and all of them are gonna make anything beter.... just make the same they got now and hope they sell.. but it would be cool if they made light weight cheap RWD cars.. like the 240, miata, ae86..... cars like that... like the cobalt but RWD haha.. or the srt-4
juancarrillo001 2 years ago
That would be nice but we are yet to see if there's any money to be made from small RWD cars like the Hyundai Genesis.
viktord1 2 years ago
well.... tru... but if there is money in compact "sporty" cars like the srt-4 and cobalt, scions and stuff.. then y not save a few dollars and just make them rwd.... or does it cost more to make a rwd then a fwd?
juancarrillo001 2 years ago
Front wheel drives are popular because they are cheaper to make and you get a bit more interior and trunk space because all the moving parts are up front.
viktord1 2 years ago
OHHHHH!!!!....
i see.... that makes sense.. i still dont like em tho... lol
juancarrillo001 2 years ago
FWD is also considerd safer on bad weather days(control i think)
CrazyDave650 2 years ago
yeah, less likely to oversteer (basically go into a drift), and most people dont know how to respond to their car getting loose.
6129golf 2 years ago
This is A CRIME that we are FORCED by our govt to pay nearly $1,000 each to TEMPORARILY save these FAILED car companies!!!!!!!!! All this will do is allow the Fat-ass CEO billionaires to collect MORE money to pay for their lavish lifestyles while we working stiffs pay for their BONUSES while we stick to driving USED CARS! Keep your car and take care of it. Stop giving those billionaire CROOKS all your hard-earned money!
sebring98 2 years ago 4
YES YOU ARE SO FUCKING RIGHT! Why don't others think the same way you and I do?!
simonraya87 2 years ago
I think there are many people who feel the way we do, but many are afraid to speak out. YOU AND I AREN'T!!! I will say it again out loud.. WE WORKING CLASS PEOPLE ARE BEING ROBBED BLIND BY THE BILLIONAIRES WHO CAN'T EVEN OPERATE A SUCCESFUL BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!
sebring98 2 years ago
Chrysler DESERVES to die. None of their products stand out in any way and none of their new ones are worth cents let alone billions of dollars. GM, as you guys said, CAN make good cars, WHEN THEY TRY. The new Malibu and CTS/CTS-V are proof. The ZR1 is a niche car so it doesn't count. If Ford can bring its Europe line here, then they can survive, but they have to try harder than they are now. The government should stop giving Chrysler money and start collecting on the loans given so far.
LamboGallardo560 2 years ago 4
well some of the cars are actually pretty good but it the attention to details that American cars don't pay attention to like their competition does. They make ugly cars, that don't give good enough gas mileage to compete with like the Honda Accord and cars like that, they have one American car that competes with it a Chevy Malibu....really a Malibu my dad had a 2001 Malibu, i hated it no design, no power, and no fun to drive. so they really need to step their game up
rcking1991 2 years ago
I say just get rid of all fucking cars and trucks and just switch to mopeds, scooters and motorcycles. It'll just be like taiwan...:)
dronus 2 years ago
I'd rather put a bullet in my head
LamboGallardo560 2 years ago
I want a car that will last. I've had 10 brand new mid level vehicles in the last 25 years and your always wondering whats going to go wrong next. Something extra always needs replaceing when you take it in for regulare maintenance. And its always expensive. Why can't they put a few dollars more into the initial build ,, wait I know why its called stream revenue.
selfpg 2 years ago
Let Crysler die. I have a feeling Crysler is going to take that money and somehow pocket it. Save GM cause there the ones at least building some decent cars and showing some sort of effort in there company. BTW G419.. nice valve table.
DoggyDaTroof 2 years ago
ZR1 Engines in every car!!!
josemolina2008 2 years ago
The main things to be done, are probably:
1. a) Big 3 must be leaders of innovative concepts and ideas, not just play catch up w/ Germany and Japan.
The big 3 was more innovative before the 80's and 90's, and they did well. They're getting there today, but not enough b) More eye catching achievements eg, ACR, ZR1, Cobalt SS. But not JUST performance; more MAINSTREAM breakthroughs needed
2. Improve int. quality.
3. End all failing programs to help support R&D for above
-My .02 cents
doitlive08 2 years ago
I completely agree. American car companies need to come up with some new and innovative ideas to take back the american car buyers market. Right now Japan owns most of the US just because of the vehicles they produce, not saying its entirely bad by any means but if american car companies want to take back what they once had, they need to roll out something no one will expect.
supaphreak2045 2 years ago
Id also throw in faulty marketing.
They've just recently begun to market Cadillac to younger buyers. It's still an "old man's car."
I'd actually recommend GM to use younger people in their ads, possibly even celebrities. Travis Barker wouldn't mind getting paid for that.
Toyota successfully targeted the younger crowd with a very good marketing campaign for young people, esp w/ scion; sponsoring concert tours, snow boarding events, etc
I have yet to see such a good marketing campaign by GM.
doitlive08 2 years ago
I've always been a GM fan. Then again i don't buy new cars so i really don't pay much attention to how or whom they market to. I still thing that dumping the High Performance Division is a stupid move but then again, that doesn't mean you won't be able to get those cars. I hope this whole issue gets sorted out faster than what their original projections are.
supaphreak2045 2 years ago
instead of giving them money, how about if you buy a domestic, you don't pay any taxes for it! how about that?
lcy85 2 years ago
remember in the late 70's early 80's Chryslers was on the ropes and look at how they kept 10,s of 1000's of people working paying taxes and paid the money back EARLY!! It was worth it then and it's worth it now. The real unemployment numbers and these are goverment numbers is actually at 13.5 . If you let GM and Chrysler go bankrupt you can almost double that number. Every other country protects their auto industry the goverment won't let these company's go bankrupt they can't afford it.
drydock265 2 years ago
You never mentioned the new fiat alliance Chrysler has and you didn't mention the new phenox V6 that I have heard a few things about. I thing a few good cars from fiat and a good replacement for the mid and full size car will mostly get Chrysler back on track. The new Ram has a nice interior and I am sure they will be able to bring that to the rest of there cars
echofro 2 years ago
btw. where is Audi R8 ice racing?
sspope 2 years ago
It's going to be at Lake George, we're shooting on Saturday :) Probably won't air for 2 weeks or so though...
Garage419 2 years ago
Very interesting discussion, but CHRYSLER IS going to have new models. They're going to sell Fiats and Alfa Romeos rebadged as Chrysler afaik.
sspope 2 years ago
GM should make a mini cooper like car. with independent suspension all the way around, small efficient engine, good looks. it would be succesfull if it looks right and handels just as good if not better. Mini Cooper sell really well even in this economy. if they make it starting at 15 grand it will be a great seller. think about it. a mini cooper competitor for 5 grand less.that 25 percent off a mini. just a thought
lbm323 2 years ago
Trying to undercut Europeans and Japanese pricing is part of what got the big 3 into this mess in the first place. If they concentrate on quality instead of building to a price that undercuts other companies, they will reap longer term benefeits.
Garage419 2 years ago
It's no just big 3 who have been trying to cut production costs as much as possible over past years, the German are doing it too. Look how Mercedes and VW have fallen from the top.
sspope 2 years ago
It's not that they have "fallen from the top" so much as sales are down everywhere, except for Audi it seems.
Garage419 2 years ago
I don't mean the recent financial crysis. I was saying that VW and Mercedes had top notch quality before 90-ties, the use of materials was excellent. Then they started saving everywhere.
sspope 2 years ago
I think I parting of GM would actually benefit the market. Instead of cutting lines, let them split off and reignite American Engineering by spreading the competition
Kuroshine08 2 years ago
I would like to see GM downsize by picking its 3 top brands, making completely seperate companies and picking a CEO for each one. People do not need/want many cars right now. The cars made by each one need to be very good and compete with foreign companies.
AVLAXMIDI09 2 years ago
The Better American Car: Something fun to drive, not something a senior citizen would want to buy like a Buick.
WereAllApes 2 years ago
I would somewhat agree but i think it needs to be a car that widely appeals similar to hondas and toyotas. Yes old people like them, yes I the 17 year old thrill seeker, like them as well.
AVLAXMIDI09 2 years ago
Isn't ford bringing back the Escort?
WereAllApes 2 years ago
no, the Euro Focus is coming in 2010 though.
Garage419 2 years ago
I think we should allow the big three to crash and allow the Japanese take over the American factories.
WereAllApes 2 years ago
I think you should move to Japan.
RangerMH 2 years ago
I will admit the CTS-V is a fine example of a car, but it's more of a enthusiast vehicle not many of us can afford nor will ever get to drive. I'm talking about cars like the current Impala, in general I find it so boring and generic it's like they don't have a passion anymore and just gave up.
ge90777 2 years ago
exactly. The cars need to be specialized yet affordable. We need to step up our engines to compete with foreign car makers as well.
AVLAXMIDI09 2 years ago
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Xeyad1 2 years ago
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Xeyad1 2 years ago
There is nothing exciting about American sedans, they just end up being used as mass fleet vehicles for rental places and government use. As a consumer I don't want to be associated with bland boring fleet vehicles.
ge90777 2 years ago
thats not entirely true... why dont u go look at the new cadillac cts-v
midgetman433 2 years ago
a niche car for enthusiasts, hardly enough to make up for the rest of the bland midsized segment. For every one CTS-V, there are 10 base Impalas and Tauruses on the road.
Garage419 2 years ago
GM and Ford will survive this mess. Chrysler will be sold or merged with another company (maybe VW). They'll become a private label car maker, meaning any car company can ask them to build a car with their name on it. And, Cerberus, which owns Chrysler, also owns GMAC, which became a bank and got additional funding from TARP ($5 billion). So hypothetically speaking, if the investors of Cerberus were to sell the company, they would get their initial investment back + profits. Garage419, got cash?
mail22 2 years ago
What If the big 3 started creating products for their older vehichles? I mean ones from like the mid 70s to now? They talk about all this hybrid stuff, well then whats a cheap and effective way to do it? There are cars on the road that are just terrible, why not create a kind of "update" program, in which you develop hybrid conversions for some of their past cars? As well as maybe updating them in other ways, such as improving the level of safety, driveability and comfort.
oldsoulyoungbody 2 years ago
no one would spend money to turn an old car into a hybrid, it just wouldn't be worth the time, work, or money. and the big 3 have enormous lots of unsold brand new cars, which are a much bigger problem than helping people improve their old cars.
Garage419 2 years ago
yeah the high-performance market is what GM wants to look like and wants to be famous for high fit and finish cars, but really, out of every cobalt you might see on the street, how many are SS's not too many, same as the CTS and the CTS-V. the base cars are what are still selling, and this is what they need to focus on. Thanks
eric29armstrong 2 years ago
you guys... honestly that leo guy is the only well informed one. do you realize that it isnt the quality that GM wants to improve, its consolidating thier resources! Yeah they cut out their high-performance programs, Because they cant afford to keep it going. Its not about what car is the coolest and keeping that one, its about trying to keep their base market alive, and that base market is regular commutter vehicles, which is what the high-performance division is being worked into.
eric29armstrong 2 years ago
Right now, yes, they will do whatever they have to do to stay alive. But poor quality has been GM's problem from the mid-1970's right up until very recently. Or, more importantly, the perception of poor quality, which comes from cheap interiors, iffy reliability, and large body panel gaps with squeaks and rattles. These problems lasted for years and years, and some of them continue today.
Garage419 2 years ago
I don't think that Gm or any of the Amarican car companies or going to survive. However I do think there's going to be a great Amarican car, from a great Amarican company. But that company will rice as the big 3 will fall. Also I think that what the government is doing by means of loans and bailouts is plain wrong, I mean how or they planning to help these people in 3 to 4 years when the monney is gone. Cause as it's going at the moment the big 3 are as fuel-efficient as their cars. LPWCEB
LPWCEB 2 years ago
you guys need a TV show.
MrDuck4321 2 years ago
The "Better American Car" would have the mechanical reliability of Ford, the interior comfort of Chrysler, and the design and appeal of GMs. If the three companies could merge, and create the automobile listed above, it would get noticed.
JDisturbed 2 years ago
The US car companies need to come up with new brand names to get rid of the old stereotypes (specially on newly designed models like the Malibu). Buick introduced some futuristic cars for the Chinese market; but most Americans would not buy those same cars just because it's a Buick. Once they change the names of the redesigned models, they'll start selling more. Once you build a new car, get rid of the old name. GM needs to reduce its brands to Chevy and Cadillac & get rid of some models.
mail22 2 years ago
calling crap by another name doesn't change what it is....
ucf08 2 years ago
Not all American cars are crap. New models, like the Malibu, Corvette, & CTS, are great cars (design and built). Plus, a lot of European cars have quality problems too. I have an '08 Audi A4 with 15K miles and I've already replaced the radiator, transmission and the conv. top (all under warranty but still). Before that, I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee with 150K miles without any problems. Would you rather pay $60K for a car and have problems or pay $30K & have problems? It's mostly an image problem!
mail22 2 years ago
these financially troubled companies not only the auto makers but all the rest to this wont happen again in this shape and form. but thanks for the good topic hope to stir a buzz on wht i've just said :-)... ps can u guys make more episodes like this where theres more then 2 voices heard for new networks car people
Anwezzy21 2 years ago
... and know wht "WE" want not them telling us wht we should have, bein cheaply made engineered, and unappealing products. i mean ever1 wants to look cool now' days and lets face it american made is not tht cool unless ur buying some thing like a cadillac r wht have you. but to answer the ? i do think with better advertiseing and teaser vids on tv (wht the pro makers do) will in effect help change mind in in turn sell more cars n gettin our hard earned money back. but govt does need to guide...
Anwezzy21 2 years ago
business and industry should be all about survival of the fittest ... american car companies have been the weakest for the past 3 decades. let them die out ... the strong shall live and the weak shall perish ... that is the law of nature.
morbid and cruel, maybe ... but that is the only way to strengthen industries. you can't expect the public to act as a crutch too a US auto industry that's limping around and can't even pull it's own weight and pay its own way.
bstrdhound 2 years ago
i second this guys views!! let the european cars live along with the japanese, and the out of knowhere chinese wit the hyaundi up and comin products.
Anwezzy21 2 years ago
Hyundai is Korean
tiawatha 2 years ago
hey guys liked the group discussion. my personal opinion is tht i do believe tht its is a good idea to help these companies with the financial crisis, only bc people need jobs.. tht said i feel tht the govt need to stress tht they do have to be developing new technology, better bells and whistles tht will kind of lure buyers to the main objective of buying cars. and also i must say each of these companies should do a survey with the general public and those who watch these shows like 419...
Anwezzy21 2 years ago
GM & Ford should invest that bailout money and buy new tech for car mftg. Build new Brands, for ex: chevy to be truck based and mainstream, saab be sporty and sligthly lux etc. Ford be mainstream cars or buy a new brand like Aptera, tesla & Fisker. companies that are building interesting cars with brand new technology that will drive up sales
People want a car that's different, well made, fun and ecofriendly to drive or at least think it is. I just hope Chrysler vanish for US sake
mayinss 2 years ago
you guys hit everything on the head. The Performance Division of GM is the star of American cars. Its amazing that in 2004/5 the Ford GT came out and shook up the supercar world. THe ZR1 is the same thing now. How can we let 2 companies that have given us so much go down the tubes? Maybe if the performance divisions were further seperated from the rest of the companies themselves. Ford & GM make good trucks and sports cars. THe problem is the lame stuff inbetween. Maybe they should just cut thos
mclarenzbender2 2 years ago
Chrysler will be gone inside of two years, and gm will not make better cars, probably will be gone by 2020... Good riddance
Karomar123 2 years ago
I think a good a good American car looks like the European Ford Focus. We need cars that are quick, comfortable, fun, and affordable. With ford's decision to bring both the Euro style Focus and Fiesta to the US markets its obvious why they didn't need bailout money.
Collinbrown03 2 years ago
Chrysler is done and i think its time for GM to cut a few lines... Possibly look at cutting Hummer, Pontiac, and Buick... just to get the ball rolling again...
DaBluedude100 2 years ago
obiously gm will make better cars.. they can't make them any worse, and about chrysler I dont think it will exist more than 5 yeatrs
daackmpoy 2 years ago
give me a job in GM's executive branch.. In 2 years i can flip that company on it's ass.. fast than caddilac could put an LS in the CTS-V
rudebwoyjohn 2 years ago
ok guys just some feedback. i like the debate and all but can you guys do like a mixture of talking and some cool car videos/pics/sounds. some episodes are just car porn and others are full of watching u guys argue about cars. dont get me wrong i love debating that very same topic but i dont really enjoy listening to others do it that much. but u can still do that just put some car porn in there for shts and giggles.
flamemaster89 2 years ago
THAT IS WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FLAMEMASTER, AND SOME OF US LIKE THIS FORMAT!!! There are plenty of "car porn" vids on you tube for you to watch. Adults are talking, you should go to the other room!
Karomar123 2 years ago
Do you have any good "car porn" related to the big 3 falling apart? I didn't think so.
Garage419 2 years ago
This settings screams out for a cool backdrop , like a Klingon Public Toilet Complex or a Chinese brothel. Also where is the beer ?
torpedo35 2 years ago
gm could survive,chrysler on the other hand should go the way of amc
lamontrene 2 years ago
i say fuk it..they should change chrysler to crisis cuz honestly like u guys said they cant make it. they will fail to the exent of extinction, but GM on the other hand is making better products although their lower class cars r not that comparable worldwide they might have aome ups. GM has the ability to make amazing cars if they really put the money and effort but they dont know if it will be a good outcome. the future of american cars are still on the rise but for now they lay in a crisis.
adamkawwaff 2 years ago
i liked todays format but is seemed like right when the conversation got good the buzzer hit, next time just let it flow
lowrthnu92 2 years ago
i like mike spinelli
teamsleepnine 2 years ago
KILL OFF ONE OF THE BIG THREE!!!!! kill chrystler!!! the others have to learn.
lawl802 2 years ago 2
i think new independent car companies will come out and the big 3 will eventually die. then the American car will be able to compete with foreign cars
DasBurGovna 2 years ago
i agree the big three are gonna fall and independents are gonna get the spotlight because i feel that independents focus more on the car quality.. why? because those car makers know that there cars unlike those of the big three wont sell unless they are well built and worth the money the only car that might survive might the mustang for its engine
LIV2RID 2 years ago
i think gm is going to survive because they are coming out with great cars and even concepts such as the stingray but chrysler i dont really see any future to it i send an email to chrysler about the challenger asking why they dont improve the transmission of the challenger v6 (it has 4 speed automatic only not manual, really slow 8.1 sec 0-60) and they reply me by saying that it will be a great idea to put a manual and make it faster but by the economy they will not do it. whatcanuspectfromthem
Pajapajin 2 years ago
I've been saying this for a while now, GM USA needs to take a leaf from their Australian and European counterparts. People in both those areas are actually proud to own a GM vehicle. My Holden SSV (G8 GT) isn't perfect, but I love it!! GM USA needs to make people LOVE their cars! Sounds stupid, but that's my view on it.
ozziebob 2 years ago
They need to die cause honestly they aint producing nothing but crap with the occasional good car...
iamhotty 2 years ago
Well the big three don't invest towards other technology other than their own Automotive. When compare to other Foreign, such as Japanese, Korean, Germany,etc, have other branches other than their own Automotive such as their Electrical engineering, robotics,etc. American Compaines know how to make cars.
AZNWOKZ 2 years ago
Just the Brand name and their marketing just not fit well for future generations. It really aims towards older crowd who have money to spend. American companies in their European and Australia section is example such designs of good cars. America tend to get the boring cars
AZNWOKZ 2 years ago
At 6:47 Leo wins. The whole nation should hear that. That's what this stupid country gets for throwing $18 billion at a company whose stock's worth only $4 bil. Might as well nationalize it, nurse it back, and sell back the stock when it's higher at a profit for Uncle Sam.
cinndave 2 years ago
NO. Chevy USA will become Vauxhall, Ford Us will become Ford Uk and Dodge will die slowly... too slowly
Crashbroke23 2 years ago
To me a better American car would be one that had more effort put into it. Use more high quality interior materials and stop with the abundance of plastic all the time. Make a vehicle that is eye catching, high tech, reliable, good on gas but faster than molasses, and just something that people want to buy.
But in my opinion, I think Ford is going on the right path now, but I don't think I can say the same for the other 2....which is sad.
quakes21 2 years ago
I think they really need to raise prices to be totally honest. GM and Ford both make excellent vehicles in Europe, because they charge more there.
johnedwards1968 2 years ago
They make excellent vehicles because they charge more? NO, they charge more BECAUSE they build good vehicles. It's the other way around. Higher prices follow higher quality, so until they make some decent cars they aren't going to get away with higher prices.
LamboGallardo560 2 years ago
I doubt this will result in a better american car.
GM and Chrysler will probably die and if Ford does not get its act together it may follow. OR the government will take full control of all of the small three.
thewilhelm 2 years ago
Matt, you guys left out the most important part of the problem for American auto manufacturers. You failed to bring up the topic of the UAW and union labor. Toyota spends $1400 less per car than GM because they do not have unionized labor. Think if GM could save half of that! GM can build so much better stuff than Toyota, but they're fighting with their hands behind their backs because of the UAW and the chokehold they have on GM. They build good cars, they just don't make any money off of them.
OSUCherokee 2 years ago
That's only because Toyota plants don't have retirees yet. That's where the extra expense comes from.
johnedwards1968 2 years ago
top 5 american (sports) cars:
1) 08' Corvette ZR1 (one i'd have)
2) 08' Caddy CTS-V
3) 09' Mustang GT (10' will bet better)
4) Taurus SHO (new one)
5) 09' ACR Viper
you guys should do American Top Gear
btw matt, in the intermission when you say Garage 419 BE THERE is really corny, love the show thought id let ya know
GearHead318 2 years ago
haha, that was literally the first promo I ever filmed, over a year and a half ago... I don't know why it's still being used.
Garage419 2 years ago
Yes! LEO THE SUIT IS IN THIS EPISODE!!
deepakm 2 years ago
a better amarican car is one that feels just as good as a toyota or mazda when u get in it and has a much lower price tag because it wasnt shiped in over seas
andrewrules231 2 years ago
Most "foreign" cars are built in America. Granted your NSX's and GTR's weren't/aren't built here (correct me if I'm wrong of course), but your Civics, your base Lancers, your Camries are all built here from Japanese parts. Of course, a lot of the base parts are made in Japan/China, so there are some shipping costs, but it's not that much more than US companies getting all their parts from Mexico.
metaleggman18 2 years ago
yea all of the japanese sport cars are made there well wait the 350z and 370z i thot they were made here i may be wrong
vtecboi18 2 years ago
Yeah, it looks like the Z's are completely built in Japan.
metaleggman18 2 years ago
ya i kinda thot so
vtecboi18 2 years ago
Better American Car?
GM has to go with the flow "economy" Give me a car that has American Roots with modern tech. give me a RWD. not so much luxury, cheap and fuel effecient, reliable and fun to drive "handles". pretty much a RWD or AWD focus or cobalt. it'll beat any imports. oh and dont forget the AMERICAN GROWL NO FARTS all this for 30,000 to 40,000 dollar range
ELi2190 2 years ago
Pontiac GTO?
22lambo 2 years ago
bull shit, if you or i had a buisness and it was going under the goverment wouldn't help us, why should they help them?
kaymanclark 2 years ago
Because dumbass the U.S auto industry employs more than 12 million people and its a leading income source for our economy.
D1sepuku 2 years ago
no bailouts, the car industry was too big anyways. let the businesses fail if they don't have a good business plan.
mackiechang 2 years ago
Gentlemen, GM will survive and Chrysler might fold. The Volt will be a hit. I'm going to be one of the first buyers.
Tell West to get a clue, the electric car is here to stay.
lgreen5 2 years ago
good show today.
if i had 30k to buy a new car, i dont think i could come up with one american car to even consider. its true the NA manufactures make some quality products, but they just are not appealing / exciting enough to buy.
if they could offer something with a 50mpg diesel that looks ok and was quicker around a track than a 370Z, I would buy it.
the entire european ford lineup is cool, why are none of them on sale in NA ?
rxallan20 2 years ago
gm can survive, but they arent gonna have fun cars for a while. chrysler is down the toilet. hopefully the viper lives.
ztunelover 2 years ago
your beard looks like that dragon thing that shows in the beginning of your show.
vman1320 2 years ago
that was a really good video! thanks guys
Guitarking40 2 years ago
nice ass wes.
kneelio321 2 years ago
I love this show. Great job guys!
alexdshields 2 years ago
The chrysler 200 xm is omething i would buy...but we all already know it will never make production..
phombi 2 years ago
better amrican car to me, would be a EVO/STi fighter, fun, fast, cheap. Ford Already has a EVO/STi fighter (Focus RS) but have not brought it over here yet.
seroyer2 2 years ago
and as for better mpg give me a break i mean my dad drives a 89 escort and gets 40mpg. and thats from 89 so if we had the tech then to do it why don't we have it now? was it burned? or just forgotten. most people dont understand what the chemical reaction in an engine is, but if you do then you should know that you can get a 100mpg easily without giving up performance, its not hard but the oil compainys stop it. same way they stopped my hydrogen engine mod
sarge1905 2 years ago
South Park
1. steal underpants
2. ???
3. make money
seroyer2 2 years ago 2
#2 pray
limitlessracer 2 years ago
I think building a better quality car for GM means forgetting about the state of the economy and political madness and getting back to what they used to do back in the '60's.....making the top product in every class they have....which also includes making the performance division a bigger part of their regular cars as well as the SS models. Like Matt said, GM can make interiors and build cars to compete with the Euro's (like the CTS-V), but they have to actually do it before things will change.
mtooshort20 2 years ago
a better american car is a car that doesn't focus mainly of speed and power.. better american cars will have affordability, style, fun, and good mpg along with it.
Noojtxeeg 2 years ago
GM should take a text book look, from Nissan and Toyota. They only had one extra division that is Lexus and Infinity. They didn't have that many division. GM have to many companys and they need a major trim. They should keep GMC for light /Heavy duty trucks and their SUV. Chevy should only be a car division, get rid of thier Trucks and SUVs. As for Caddy they should keep thier line up.
drers25i 2 years ago
Ford is doing their thing, the fusion hybrid, looks promising, gm can make great cars, but chyrstler is a lost cause..
snow1wave 2 years ago
i em no a american but i think thouse companies should certeny attack customers sense for patriotism.... and even if they are making crap cars they should advertise somethink like" be true patriot buy american car help our econony and soliders in iraq" i think lots of dum viligers will buy that... and smart americans drive europien or japan cars..
BonAquak 2 years ago
i think this is in economycal view totaly bad step
its just political
even more political (green facism) when they kill only profitable departments like high preformence cars.
if they think they will restructurate and become new toyota ... lol
good luck
As been said by RoyalError fords euro cars are ok
if they will sell that in us they will make good money
fiesta, focus and mondeo are great cars spot on market
BonAquak 2 years ago
i think GM could do well if they brought there Vauxhull car range from the uk to america, they have some good cars. vauxhull vetra, astra, corsa
insignia0 2 years ago
they already have those, the G8 is a vauxhull, as well as the saturn astra.
mtooshort20 2 years ago
I'd like US cars to be lightweight and funny when it comes to turning.. In other words, I'd like it to be fast and funny without the need of 500hp and v8..
Around 1000 Kilos, perhaps less, and up to 2 litres engine, perhaps even smaller.. But with good turning and acceleration..
Something in the league of Lotus Elise.
(If a Ford Mustang V8 costs $20 000 in the US, it will cost over $200 000 to get with license plates in Norway, because of hp, displacement and weight)
Wrasko 2 years ago 2
dude totally, the Elise model of cars are going to be the future
clutchmaster22 2 years ago
ahhhhhh Matt you created the car nut version of The View!!
rxmclaren7 2 years ago 2
Great episode G419, nice idea of a round table debate,
As for the big three, I live in Europe, and I think if Ford brings their Euro cars to the U.S. they'll be doing just fine.
For GM, I think it was a bad move getting rid of the performance division, because sportyness can get your brand a good name, so normal people will buy the regular cars to. GM can make good cars, the Opel lineup in Europe isn't bad, the insignia is a great car. So they should manage with some effort :)
RoyalError 2 years ago
yeah exactly. GM cutting the performance division is like castrating a horny 18yr old boy, it makes him totally useless lol. There are plenty of other options. for instance, cut Saab, Saturn, and Buick, make only cars like the GTO and G8 for Pontiac, use GMC for the SUV's and Trucks, and keep Chevy as the performance division that it has been for the past 30 years but keep only what's needed. Make a RWD impala, keep the new malibu, the vette, the Cruze, Camaro, and the Volt, and Caddy the luxery
mtooshort20 2 years ago
well they can make something other then just strait performance cars, i mean just fun good everyday cars. like the gti or a4 or bmw 3series its fun, pretty quick, and gets good mpg, and is still good for a family and everyday. if gm and chrysler made something like that ontop of the gto and and gxp's i would buy it. or even bring there euro's to the usa, that would be great thats what fords doing. the euro line is so much better its sad, i want a good fun american car again, but bmw ftw
sarge1905 2 years ago
yeah that's what i mean when i say they should incorporate the performance division into the lower model malibu's and impala's and stuff, kinda like they did with the new V6 Camaro. I honestly believe, had they made the impala rwd like they had made plans to do, it would have sold a whole lot better, same with making a AWD Cobalt SS. But yeah, i want a good fun american car to drive too, and they can do it easily, but they simply choose not to...
ps, i dont think anyone cares if Chrysler goes
mtooshort20 2 years ago
If GM want to survie, they need to trim alot off their plate. Get rid of Pontiac, saab, Hummer, Saturn and buick. Keep GMC as a light/hearvy duty Truck division and get rid of thier SUVs. Chevy need to trim thier model line up to keep it simple. That's I can think of right now.
drers25i 2 years ago
I agree with armyguy822. Why in world should they survive. They (CEO's) should be held accountable for what they are doing to their company. They think by bring electric cars is going make up for it. I don't think so. Only why they are in this mess, because thier cars don't hold vaule and that why nobody not buying amercian as they use to. They focus so much SUV and trucks, that they total forgot how to build decent cars that appeal to customers.
drers25i 2 years ago
I think that we should not support companies that are going under. That makes no sence at all. We should buy what we like without being harrased if it's not american.
Lambo6fo 2 years ago
guys in this vid has lot of good points but they really dont understand ecenony at all
if will thouse big players go down this efect will spread and at the end will cost evet more and the depresion will be even greater...
so there isnt so mutch space where to go
dont help them and it will ruin whole market
help them and you will buy some thime to try make things better...
BonAquak 2 years ago
thats not what they r saying. they r saying that we are giving billions to compainies that say will change and make better cars when they really have no plans to gm and chrystler r not going to make anything appeling 2 the current market. i mean would u rather have a malibue/ sebring or an audi a4 or bmw 335 or even a lexus 300. thats an easy choice. and the few appealing fun cars they have they are canceling making. if gm and chr actually used the cash 2 make cars people wanted we would be good
sarge1905 2 years ago
first of all yours english is just horried, worst then mine i that event not my first tounge...
you got the point why isnt crappy us cars good on market... but you dont get the bailout....
i live in europe and reputation of us cars are just awfoul here and by pay cray amounts for them when i can easly have bmw/vw-(audi) with great warranty, service, they have great styling and dont fallapart like us ones...
BonAquak 2 years ago
2 bonaquak i am an american and i would like to say that most americans are not proud of our cars and we think that they r not that great, thats why we r not buying them. second ... is just horried, worst then mine... you got some grammer issues buddy so dont go insulting other people when u cant even right a correct sentance. im guessing your french(correct me if im wrong) but french cars r the biggest pieces of shit ever so screw you jackoff
M3fanatic462 2 years ago
couldnt have said it better myself...french suck and smell like ass...its called a shower it was invented a long time ago...look into it
sarge1905 2 years ago
i had to spell it that way to make my point fit in the 500 character count. i have perfect english. you on the other hand sound like a retarted five year old on a sugar high. and working in the usa's financial industry and auto industry i get the "loans" far better then you ever will. a bmw tech and i own and rent forclosed homes to make the big bucks on the side so i get the market pretty good right now but nice try...dumbass
sarge1905 2 years ago
I believe you're wrong, propping up the big three will only make the depression worse and the depression will be prolonged. The whole thing about propping them up is to delay the depression. Also try spell check buddy, "evet" "mutch," would help get your points across better.
Justin4RonPaul 2 years ago
I want to see GM/Chrsler get rid of cars that aren't too appealing. ITs not cool when they make fun of their own car (that malibu commercial). Plus they have to many brand names; get rid of buick, pontiac, saturn. Do something!! I don't know where to begin with Chrysler. Why did yall say that Chrysler didn't have to report how they spent the bailout money??
Gwinneco 2 years ago
the better American car is a car that isnt made with too many plastics, has unique styling that ditches generic and quiet frankly boring designs, has decent fuel economy, good reliability, performance and features that just break away from the competitors - if i sound like im being too picky, dont blame me then for buying Japanese or German
Ji99i3 2 years ago
GM and ford only deserve to survive
67Eftw 2 years ago
Really there have been other car companies out there before, that had failed or ran out of business. I just don't see why they stop now. They had there run/fun they should just end it already. Not everything is going to last forever.
modifide 2 years ago
Ok here is my spin on this whole issue. FoMoCo seems to be set in taking the burden on their own shoulders, so let them sink or swim...my guess is they will see through to the end. GM and Chrysler are on the ropes in a big way; Chrysler doesn't have anything innovative or promising on their horizon, and have nothing worthwhile except for maybe the Jeep brand. GM is in equally as bad shape but they are putting out better product and really appear to be trying harder.
hvissotz 2 years ago
Solution: Chrysler dies. This leaves the two larger birds (ford & gm) to split the worms, and possibly regain equilibrium. This is a best foot forward situation; Chrysler is not going to cut it.
While the bailout will not do anything directly that results in better product, I see the beginnings of a commitment on the parts of Ford and GM to produce better cars. The problem is, it will take maybe 10 years for anything worthwhile to come of it, though.
hvissotz 2 years ago 2
On the subject of GM being able to build a quality car, for the love of god THEY HAVE SAAB and they did NOTHING with it. Saab still has only a few models and they're being totally ignored. Europe has like only 2 models and they're OLD. and now they're dumping the best thing they have :D
IMHO GM has a major fault in the leadership department.
esaedvik 2 years ago
SAAB's are good rides, but they are in a tough group; lexus, bmw, MB... not to mention, GM didn't give a damn about SAAB...
darqikno 2 years ago