Is JI Packer ("Knowing God") a Pagan Philosopher?

[griffinjb24]

You should ACTUALLY read his writings instead of imposing your framework upon him

[SkiesVibrant]

What in the world is going on here? It seems that some people make a full time job of parsing words and offering their own criticism without any support.

J.I. Packer is a giant among theologins. 'Knowing God' is a a truly wonderful book that I believe every Christian should read.

When you constantly belittle the likes of Piper, MacArthur, Packer, White, Sproul, you are showing limited discernment skills. Only one thing is worse: implying that they have said something, they didn't.

[oliveguss]

THE GUY WHO POSTED THIS IS MAKING LOTS OF NOISE BUT NOT MANY POINTS. YAWN.

[mcleaniechris]

Hi Andrew! I appreciate James Packer very much for his contribution to my understanding of how to Love Christ and what He has done. I came across this video and wanted to let you know that I appreciate that you are being cautious about even the little statements, which, as you have shown, can be interpreted differently. I would however, ask you, as a man of Christ, to remove this video, because you are committing a sin against my brother James Packer - also please read "knowing God"- classic

[mcleaniechris]

Hi Andrew! I appreciate James Packer very much for his contribution to my understanding of how to Love Christ and what He has done. I came across this video and wanted to let you know that I appreciate that you are being cautious about even the little statements, which, as you have shown, can be interpreted differently. I would however, ask you, as a man of Christ, to remove this video, because you are committing a sin against my brother James Packer - also please read "knowing God"- classic

[mcleaniechris]

Hi Andrew! I appreciate James Packer very much for his contribution to my understanding of how to Love Christ and what He has done. I came across this video and wanted to let you know that I appreciate that you are being cautious about even the little statements, which, as you have shown, can be interpreted differently. I would however, ask you, as a man of Christ, to remove this video, because you are committing a sin against my brother James Packer - also please read "knowing God" - classic

[ozarkdox]

young man, you are an accuser of the brethren and you know where that comes from. You are insufferable in your arrogance.

[wawabbit]

Hi again, Andrew: Wherein does Packer state his belief that anyone's awareness of "...God, of the Transcendent, of something or someone beyond the world of reality....[etc]" is the same as them believing in any of this as the "true God?" I believe that God does put a certain awareness in us, that we are created for *something* and/or *someone,* BY "something or someone." That THIS is not all there is, in other words. Since we have that innate sense, we go looking for *it.*

[etresimyre]

EVEN PAUL DECLARED THAT PAGANS KNEW "OF GOD" SOMEHOW:

ACTS 17:22-23 NIV

"Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you."

You are CONFUSING "knowledge of" (Romans 1) with "relational knowledge" I John 2:4

[wunglow]

Mate, yeah Romans 1:18-32 backs up the Packer quote. Why would you make a video with such a tenuous and biblically flawed arguement? Are you attention seeking?

[Chiangmai007]

You are completely misguided in your interpretation of what it is that he is saying in my estimation. To know Packer at all is to know how rediculous your train of thought it is. It has in fact gone of the rails. If Packer was a Pagan his influence on others would be manifestly Pagan. His life would bear no inner or outward fruit that bears Christlikeness. The fact is that he upholds the integrity of the gospel with the same humility, depth and winsomeness that his friend CS Lewis did.

[rofyle]

Wait a minute. Aren't you with Marc Carpenter at Outside the Camp? Bwahaha. What a fool. What a hypocrite. What a liar.

[nimztukana]

do you have other things to do Andy? i dont think you have a relationship with jesus?, your god is your knowledge.

[Oscarancasey]

Have you really listened to Packer, Andrew? This is nonsense.

[YouKemo]

Totally misunderstood Packer.

[abshire716]

this video is taking Packer out of context. He is just saying what Paul said in Romans 1 ....i guess the apostle paul is a heretic too..

[m00nd099y]

You have got to be kidding me. For real!? How can anyone make such an outrageous statement against Dr. Packer and want to be considered seriously. Sheesh!

[dexterenan]

I think you have misinterpreted J. I. Packer. He's not saying that all that really means when we think of God is "something ou someone beyond". He's just saying that our five, physical senses that connect us with creation are means by which we have knowledge of God.

You can't deny that on biblical ground. Romans 1.20: "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made".

[webfryes]

You are such a radical dude... I scrolled down your video list in your channel and all I see is attacks on all the famous Christian theologians.

What is the basic issue here?

[edwjkeuer]

Andrew, we pray for you specifically that the veil would be removed from your eyes, mind, and heart. You are a bright young man, made for better than this!

[dvbaseball3b]

Wow Bro No one is agreeing with you. Remember bro, Paul used Greek Ideas and philosophies to Show Christ is the true God.

[fiercegallantry]

This is an amazingly clueless (if not dishonest) interpretation of Packer's comments. McBain is simply reading his slanders into Packer's remarks. The arrogance of this wet-behind-the-ears punk *lying* about a humble, gentle, faithful saint is appalling.

Paul wrote that *all* men have a knowledge of God, so much so that "they are without excuse." What is McBain's excuse for denying Paul's clear teaching?

[ojuicedogg]

Andrew Bain you are a very sad little boy.

Do you have very low self-esteem or something that you have to distort others sermons so u can criticise to make yourself try and appear clever?

you do not come across as clever. you come across as immature and juvenile.

[JosephAland]

The quote makes no reference to Greek deities. The plain sense of the quote is this: People instinctively sense there is something/someone greater than them. He says nothing of salvation here. It is an interpretation/explication of Romans 1.

[suite1studio]

Rather an out-of-context analysis. Romans 1 also says that every person is imprinted with and by the creator.

[funkyskypilot]

Andrew, Packer is talking about the remnants of the true knowledge of God that Satan has perverted in humanity. The fact that Seneca wrote what he wrote is evidence of Packer's point! If Seneca had no concept of the transcendent he would not have written what you quoted.  Yes, it is perverted and tainted by our depravity, but that's point.

[ntwrightsmom]

Wow, you're ridiculous!

[ValliesMan]

"...the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (I Cor. 2:14).

Dear friend, you need to ask God to help you. From your comments I believe you have never received the Holy Ghost. It is ONLY He that can lead us into all truth. You will never understand God with your natural reasoning, it is impossible.

"Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed"? (Acts.19:2). By faith!

[rabchuckydonald]

your missing natural theology, it doesnt hint that everything is any God, its the recognition that its the ONLY TRUE GOD. So for example C. S. Lewis was converted by J R R Tolkein being told that Pagans and other religions are all revelations of God, but Christianity is the fully revelation of God in Christ. Nothing wrong with that.

[bushwackersteam]

Packer says NOTHING, however, about men having any way of coming to KNOW God, the true God by means of their own heart or mind. Eternity is set in men's hearts, but only through God's revelation can any man have any hope of seeing God and knowing Him.

I want to know what axe this guy has to grind. Why are you so intent on making bogus calims about some of the greatest theologians of our time?

[bushwackersteam]

Who is this dude? How does he get what he says out of what Packer said here? What Packer is saying here I believe (having read more than this single sentence of Packer's) is that somewhere inside the heart of a man is a knowledge that they are not alone, that there is something higher than them, and that therefore, they are accountable. I think this is entirely true...why else do men try to create all kinds of gods for themselves if they didn't believe so?

[AndrewcBain]

Hi.

Thanks for the feedback. You wrote me, "why else do men try to create all kinds of gods for themselves if they didn't believe so?"

Hmm. Is a pagan's idolatry evidence that they know the True God deep down?

The gods of the pagans murdered their own children, committed incest, bestiality etc. And these gods were devoutly worshiped by the pagans.

Is this devout worship of these gods proof that "somewhere inside the heart of a man is a knowledge"?

[AndrewcBain]

Doesn't Paul call idols NOTHING, and the OT prophets called them rabble, dung-hill, stones, no-gods etc.?

Since when does worshiping NOTHING prove that you know the True God deep down?

[bushwackersteam]

And when does Packer say that anyone KNOWS the True God deep down?

What Packer is saying is simply what Pauls says, "because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made so that they are without excuse. For even thought they KNEW God, they did not honor Him as God..." (Rom 1:19-21)

[bushwackersteam]

Man can see the presence of God, but it is absolutely impossible for man to know the essence of God as the triune Jehovah. Many unbelievers would acknowledge that there must be a God, but it is the denial to honor Him and glorify Him that is the sin. Paul continues there to say that, "though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools...

[bushwackersteam]

...they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator..." (Rom 1:21-22,25)

Idol worship is a side effect of this denial. It has NOTHING to do with evidence that they knew the true God...it is evidence that although they can see His works, they refuse to honor Him for who He is.

[bushwackersteam]

Buddy there's no disagreement with you about man's utter incapacity to come to know the true God without God's divine revelation. I just disagree with your interpretation of Packer. He says exactly the same!

[qstephe]

I would say yes. -the knowledge that they are not God. -the fear of a god.

[nimztukana]

@AndrewcBain Dude I think you should go use your knowledge to disciple some people or go be a missionary to Iraq or Afghanistan.

[5355vbxjbj76rvn]

@AndrewcBain

That they worship at all, is very strong evidence of the reality of One Who is is worthy of worship. So even idolatry is evidence of an attraction from & to the True God, however greatly disguised.

Some gods are of high moral character; there is a hymn from c. 1800 BC to Shamash the sun god, which is of a very pure morality: unsurprisingly, since he was god of justice. There is much good in non Biblical faiths.

Packer's remark is spot-on. There is nothing wrong with it.

[redsonja84]

Ok, this guy has made videos on most of the GREATEST men of God. Men who are publicly and unshamedly preached the true Gospel, WITHOUT fear. I hate to tell you, but you are working for the father of lies. Satan to make myself clear. The bible talks about a time when men would not stand for good doctrine. This man is one of them.

[kentkim23]

Hi redsonja, this may sound unusual but what exactly is satanic about his video?

[redsonja84]

It doesn't need to be filled with the # 666 and horns to be from Satan. The bible talks about him appearing as an angel of light, and being the father of lies. Think about it.

[louisestensig]

I doubt if natural revelation is being absolutized in the work of Parker. You are doing that in your work of evaluating him. You pull out a sentence out of his working, disregarding the wider context and then you draw conclusions. This is not a good scholarship

[AQuinault]

I guess I'm trying to say, I don't think he's the inclusivist cretin you make him out to be. He would undoubtedly would go on after Seneca would stop.

You think there can be no point of contact in evangelism before regeneration. I'm not sure that's true. I think that there can be points of contact, which acts as a means (along with the preaching of the Gospel) at the point of regeneration.

[AQuinault]

Argh! Look on your bookshelf. I assume you have a copy of Bondage of the Will? Now look on the front cover. WHO TRANSLATED IT?!

[usenetposts]

I trust you have given JI Packer the benefit of a personal consultation before this public rebuke, as required by God in the Bible.

If not, then I trust you have at least written to him to enable him to see this and will allow him to give his answer here freely, if he wishes to.