@leung2188 Before insulting, try to inform yourself a little bit... for example by reading Lv2lv2 comment who informed me (*cough* respectfully *cough*) that there are differing editions.
Divino Scarlatti ..genio immnenso; di sonate stupende ne avrà fatte un centinaio almeno...intendo di livello eccezionale. Una volta ero a Napoli in un taxi e alla radio suonavano una sonata; il conducente cui ho detto se conosceva Scarlatti mi ha detto se mi riferivo alla trattoria.. Dopo la mia risata e precisazionigli ho chiestodi maradona: sapeva tutto..Simpatica scena.
Noi portiamo ancora nel cuore tutti, da Provenzale a Scarlatti (padre e figlio), da Pergolesi a Paesiello, da Leonardo Vinci a Leo, da Jommelli a Durante... ricordiamo perfino il cattivo Principe di Venosa ed i suoi madrigali. Ascoltiamo anche i naturalizzati come Caresana, Anfossi e Sacchini... come dimenticare il super goloso Domenico Cimarosa... un saluto forte da Napoli ^_^
@mymusic11ful: The composer made hardly any notations as this is a very early piece and so although the classical trend is to play it very fast like Michelangeli's version other more modern interpretations like here work just as well, in my opinion.
I wholeheartedly agree -- both Gilels and Michelangeli's interpretations work very well. As a side note, at the 1938 Ysaÿe International Festival in Brussels, Belgium, Michelangeli placed seventh while Emil Gilels took the first prize. It was Michelangeli's first international competition. Arthur Rubinstein, one of the judges, stated that although Michelangeli gave an unsatisfactory performance, he already showed his impeccable technique.
@InnocentOracle Did you choose it or was it recommended? Great taste. An enchanting piece. I chose Scarlatti list A. Beethoven Rondo Pathetique 3rd movement list B. and Chopin's Nocturne Op. 32 No. 1.
I have never seen or played this Scarlatti piece, so I'm just curious what notations the composer intended. The difference between this interpretation, Perahia's interpretation, and Michelangeli's interpretation are soooo different! Can any musician help? Thank you.
@msbrownization yup and even so if you play like this in an exam, you probably wont get high marks because people tend to prefer the original interpretation or your own interpretation only if you are famous. :(
I wan't to play this for my grade 8, the exam recording CD is so much faster than this, but I don't care, I love it like this, this is just perfect in my view.
I know institutes in Asia use such a stupid 'exam recording CD', which is only tried to be imitated by Asian teachers and pupils!
How STUPID and how far from music itself this ignorant 'method' stays!!
Please, don't pay any further attention to 'grades' and 'exam recording CDs' and even lots of Asian teachers anymore, but let music grow from yourself!
This is simply fantastic, my favourite one. To judge it for is tempo is a great mistake, for me. This interpretation is the so expressive that no other word is necessary to explain it. Let us listen to music and... let's dream!
I have a Westminster LP (XWN 18180) from 1956 where Gilels plays this piece in 4 minutes. Very different interpretation. The record sleeve says: "Scarlatti was as much Eusebius as Florestan, and there is an exuisite poetry in this miniature masterpiece." I cannot but agree. I feel that the version Liszt111 shared with us is an "Eusebian" one.
A fine interpretation of a wonderful sonata. Gilels plays it with great feeling, not like a finger exercise, like a lot of pianists do. There is so much more to Scarlatti than meets the eye - excuse me - ear!
It took a while... listening and comparing it over and over again... and the strange thing is that I prefer Gilels version now (which goes beyond surprising tempo alone). In one word: GREAT, and in another three:: flabbergasting an touched. Thanks.
I agree with hatem, I was about to post a comment on the wonderful job he does since it takes a good bit of self control to maintain this tempo he plays at. it's easy to get swept up by this piece and start playing too fast. So one of the things I hear in the suspended 'hesitancy' is the mark of masterful playing, certainly not languorousness.
This is the difference between being a great pianist (Michelangeli) and a giant among pianists (Gilels, Horowitz, Rubinstein). The difference between enjoying a performance as opposed to witnessing an event, a connection with the performer, composer, and the music itself.
If you are implying that G, H, or R are better pianists than Michelangeli, than you are simply wrong,especially when it comes to Scarlatti. Oh so wrong.
I am not implying anything. I am talking about a deep musical intellect, innate and unique ability to bring out something from a composition that perhaps even the composer himself did not fully realize. I believe that Giles was in that unique category. It doesn't diminish Michelangeli's interpretation or technique. I was talking about a personal connection with the musician and the music, not about who is better, at Scarlatti specifically, or the piano generally.
I still have to disagree. Rubenstein generally played very faithfully to the composers composition with little embellishing; that is probably what I like most about him. I have to admit that do not know much about Gilels. Horowitz played closer to Horowitz than to the composer's wishes and most often got it wrong. Other than his Scarlatti and Scriabin interpretations, everything else is just plain wrong; uneven tempos, weird styling, etc...
I've listened to your videoed performances and have to say that you show great promise. Perhaps wih a little more modesty and honest self appraisal you might produce performances that don't have the metronomic quality of the musical box. You have have my best wishes.
"... un gioco ardito". Pur condotto in modo "sbagliato", "romantico", a chi non piace? Per un grande compositore (Scarlatti) è sufficiente essere un grande interprete (Gilels). La filologia in questi casi lascia il tempo che trova.
Clearly "incorrect" (i.e., far from allegro), yet clearly meaningful and lovely nonetheless. The tripping and leaping sequences sound sort of out of place when played slowly like this, but other than that, the pace is very fine.
"Clearly incorrect"? "Far from allegro"?? I'm convinced that "Allegro" in Scarlatti is far from the meaning which it took later on - look at Kirckpatrick's index and compare the tempo instructions, and you will find out that "Allegro" sometimes is close to "Andante" indeed...
Gilels understood very much more of this music than many of his colleagues who misuse Scarlatti to show their quick fingers.
Indeed, allegro doesn't imply the rush in which pieces like this are often played, but it does mean happy; regardless of what it might have implied regarding overall tempo, it definitely does not imply the kind of hesitancy or langorousness Gilels displays. Again, phrases that clearly leap or trip sound odd when when suspended like this. I'd concede that Michelangeli may have been faster than D.S. intended; perhaps something inbetween is more "correct," but I doubt more enjoyable than either.
@hatem52 As with interpretations by a world class a pianist; tempo indication tossed out the window. Gilels not even close to Allegro. Andante at a moderate pace and Allegro equals fast. Approximation, converting Quantz beats per minute to Metronome Markings, Andate is circa 79-88 MM and Allegro is 110-129. Allegro at its slowest is still much faster than Andate at its quickest. Compare at the metronome online. This is circa 84MM and sloooow, Although I like the tonal shadings.
First of all, it seems there isn't a 'original', this means Domenico's own manuscript of this piece. So, where would the word 'Allegro' come from, then ??
Then, about 'allegro' itself: Allegro means 'happy' but, unfortunately, tradition has been misleading ignorant people, so that it became 'fast'.
The fact a metronome uses 'Allegro' as a speed indication, is actually misleading.
Last, but not least: please don't take a stupid metronome as your guide, but your heart.
@geertdehoux An 18th c. publication is as valid as a manuscript. Ask any musicologist. Manuscript collections are known by libri of origins Parma, Venice, Lisbon.
As to the term Allegro, it is universally known as fast, just as Adagio (ad agio, Italian at ease). If you would only read Quantz, but you disdain history and truth.
The metronome markings are from Quantz's method use the pulse (beats per minute) which were converted into Metronome numbers, which I tyou could relate .
@geertdehoux Very good to hear from you, again. I will clarify, 18th cen. publications have been acknowledged as authorative source (or even more so) equal to a manuscript when an autograph (in the composer's hand and not anothers copy) is absent. That opinion has been in the majority since Czerny's edition of the Partitas of Bach. Publication in the 18th cen. was very rare occurence, usually for works of special merit, often offered in subscriptions, and very relatively expensive.
@geertdehoux con'd Music history aids in the understanding of music of earlier times. Performance Practices of 250 years ago evolved & were lost in time In the 19th cent Scarlatti's works were played "Schumann tempo, , Allegro became Presto, Presto played as fast as possible, faster, and faster still. A reaction against this tradition birthed Urtext editions.
Actually you are following a tradition among concert pianist, disregarding the manuscripts tempo, dynamics. You are in good company.
@geertdehoux In good company refers to living & late pianists who envisioned beyond the scores & interpreted their hearts' innermost secrets. Passages played P when written F, a ritard or rubato or notes inégales taken, or with emphasis added to certain notes transform pieces into personal statements of truth. Who else can breath a soul into mundane printed notes on a page? A performer is quintessential for a work's apotheosis into art for audiences to enjoy.
Many musicians nowadays are 'slaves' of the scores.
For myself, a score is only an INDICATION, written down by a human being at a certain moment on a certain place. Of course a composer can have wonderful ideas, but so can a performer!
Composers need good performers, and performers need good composers.
Many people believe a composer's performance of one of his own works is the best one.
@geertdehoux I have maintained that most scores are outline of a performance. I initially became interested in Urtext editions & later facsimile manuscript scores to clear away a layers of "varnish" applied by some editors (some of them pianists whom I admired) which started my interest in musicology. The K27 piece has the extended passage (0:23 to 0:36) that Longo removed directions; the hands were to switch positions, not all pianist are aware or if aware perform this direction.
Well, honestly, I try to get an Urtext edition for as many musical compositions as possible.
But it must be said, that sometimes even an so-called Urtext edition is not 100% original, either.
About how composers write indications about pianistic items, like fingering and switching positions: I've learned the performer should take the best solution for himself. This means it's often not a good idea to follow what's on the score.
@geertdehoux I agree with you exactly on fingering; one discovers what works best for oneself as no two pair of hands are the same. The few autographs with J S Bach's fingering are interesting historically, however with the exception of the Applicato (a 3 over 4 and 4 over 5 excercise) from W F Claiverbuchlein, I do not use the original fingering indications. None of the surviving examples are found in concert pieces.
@geertdehoux I was unaware of the mild Marfan Syndrome connection in Chopin. I always connected Paganini technique to his lack of "webbing' between the fingers. Marfan Syndrome I am acquainted with only in the extreme cases in terms of excessive skeletal growth.
@geertdehoux Years of playing the WTC changed my ideas on fingering especially on playing fugues which has carried over into literature of other periods. Some might call my methods eccentric (I would prefer ecletic) the goal is for a minimum of motion, muscle relaxtion (especially needed for speed), and ease of execution. (Sounds like a Kung Fu tract).
I think you're perfectly right: actually this is the 'best' technique, although brilliant pianists like Kissin and Weissenberg make much more 'tensed' movement with their finger muscles.
@geertdehoux The more tensed movement is part of piano technique (can be usual for certain types of tonal coloring) however working against a tensed muscle impedes speed in quick passages and can be exhausting overtime. Playing a piano can be a sprint or a marathon depending on the piece, and during a long program anything that tires the performer over the long run needs to be minimized as much as possible.
@geertdehoux For an exercise piece this would make sense (cross hand technique), but for a concert performance is this essential? (Well, I do switch hands, even though it makes a smooth an interpretation a tad more difficult). I have been to concerts or heard recordings of number of composers interpreting their own works, I can say only a few would the best performance, and in these instances the composer was better know as a virtuoso in his own write rather than as a composer.
@geertdehoux Poor Scarlatti become rather large in his later years and could no longer play crossed hand pieces. We wouldn't have the large collection of Sonatas had Scarlati had not been a compulsive gambler.
@geertdehoux A learning a new piece deals with the sum of one's education, experience, intuition, and technique. And after it is in your repetoire, your collective sum changes. It changes you, for the better. The same can be said about revisiting a piece with a fresh approach.
I embarassed a harpsishordist who let me play his instrument during an intermission. The crowd I drew praised the tonal quality my performance. I said the builder deserved the kudos to save face of the kind keyboardist.
@geertdehoux Cellist can tell if fellow a Cellist is playing his regular instrument or a borrowed one and whose cello was borrowed. Two or more performers playing the same piano will sound either subtlely or significantly different. As the electric guitarsist say, "Tone is in the Fingers."
As to the MIDI files played on a computer, their are some very technically endowed pianists who sound just like a computer; no feeling or taste with every note perfect and the performance unmemorable.
@geertdehoux I have yet to be emotionally moved by a MIDI File performance (computer performance) of any work, except some pieces which engendered disgust . I must confess that I am a bit of a philistine concerning a quantity of "modern" music. Some modern music employ gimmics; performance art (not music, my views about Cage's 4′33″), an insult to the audiences intelligence. The fault is within me., however, I blame University music depts. for promoting dissonance over harmony & form.
@geertdehoux Fortunately, there is no shortage of pianists (and other musicians), who illuminate something new, even to an old concert warhorse. How fortunate to live in a time of recorded performances.
I compose music (and have been for the last 40 years). In my pieces, I am more interested in what others see in a piece and what they bring to the equation.
May the New Year bring happiness & good health to you and your family.
@geertdehoux A score is not so much a mystery as a personal discovery. It is only what you read into and what you can get out of it. Everyone would be happy with digitalized performances of MIDI files played back through a computer sound card if music was just the notes.
I could say the same with musical instruments, no two performers sound the same on a piano, harpsichord, or church organ (or add in your favorite instrument).
@geertdehoux cont'd Presto translates to ready not Very fast.
Tradition has nothing to do with Allegro being fast. Allegro=fast is one of the most common terms in music and among one of the oldest Tempo indications. Musical Instruments, forms, dynamics, ect are all in Italian as the earliest successful musicians were either Italian or studied in Italy and the practice spread. Sonata-Allegro form? Beethoven was the 1st to use metronome markings for Allegro and his indications; very fast.
@geertdehoux My teachers were students of Widor and Dupre. They understood the terms very well. Their advice as to tempo dealt with the size and acoustics of the hall. Other factors had to do with the Time Signature (important in Baroque music, can be an indicator of Tempo when words such as Allegro are absence, but that's involves music history), the composition's form, the measure containing the most complex writing and fingering. and of course good taste.
I am well acquainted with Chopin's pupil's surving recordings. Likewise the editions of Mikuli, Tellefsen, and Georges Mathias's student Raoul Pugno (based on his teacher and original publicastions, history). Chopin was played all over the map, de Pachmann's recordings and Welt piano rolls. For that matter, Chopin rarely played the same way twice.
Best Regards, Steve
PS For Baroque period tempo consult Cory Hall (the 3rd person to write on the subject.)
@Renshen1957 I repeat: have a look on a l l tempo indications and you will see, that there is a kind of ranking in Scarlatti's tempos. And if you are able to read in german: see in Harald Keller, D. S. - on page 63 you will find a table in which it is evident that Allegro is exactly in the middle between the extremes of S.'s (rich) tempo instructions. Being Italian he knew, what he wrote. And Quantz is not very significant in this context: he came from another musical culture (Potsdam!!) ...
@hatem52 2nd attempt earlier post appear. Potsdam didn't exist in a vacuum, Frederick the Great's court, Berlin nearby. Germany was heavily influenced by Italy. Quantz studied in Dresden and Vienna, toured England and France (He critized Vivaldi's wild performance habits). Many great musicians were cosmopolitan, knew Italian music or studied abroad since the time of Heinrich Schütz. Spain wasn't a vacuum, Queen Barbara had Italian Pianos and a english Harpsichord.
@hatem52 cont'd. I have read Keller (I read in several languages). Allegro was a modifier rather than an absolute time. One also has to take into account the Sonatas with no tempo indications, these exist in the manuscripts as well as published in the 30 Essercizi. The note values and time signatures as play a factor for any piece without tempi instructions and would be further modified by the words Andante, Allegro etc. To place Allegro between extemes is a simplistic solution.
Can anyone please tell me why this version has the name K. 27 (L. 449)?????? is there a better name to describe this perfectly slow version? all the other versions are played at 200 mph/ kmh.-............please help
The K27 number is from Ralph Kirkpatrick's Catalog of Scarlatti's Sonatas. Kirkpatrick number system is Chronologically (date of composition).
The L449 is from a earlier century catalog of Allesandro Longo. Longo edition of Scarlatti was heavily edited (Ornaments written out, etc) and in some Sonatas "re-written."
The original is Allegro, in Cut Time as I recall. Gilels interpretation is rather pedestrian, at a speed most people would practice at before speeding the piece up.
@geertdehoux The original is in 30 Essercizi ("Exercises") the only Sonatas published in Domenico Scarlatti's lifetime of which this Sonata the the 27th. Kirkpatrick assigned theses Sonatas number K 1 - K30 in his catalog. The publication has the term Allegro (= fast) which is accepted terminology in contemporary 18th century lexicons. The composer's intention was a quicker performance.
I give the benefit of the doubt that most posters have at least a some music education. In your case???
@geertdehoux Scarlatti Sonatas 555 exist in several collections (not in his hand) and also as the Essercizi. Born in Naples, Scarlatti's use of Italian word Sonata (also used as in Germany, France, England, etc) is by no means unique. Nor are the terms Presto, Allegro, Andante, which are found through art the 555 Sonatas as well as the Essercizi.
Music publication in the Baroque Period was usually only reserved for special works by well known composers, at a very expensive price. Cont'd
@geertdehoux I omitted some replies, the constraints of 500 characters. I would you hope you know that Scarlatti has been dead over 250 years. His intentions are found in the definitions of his day, which you choose to ignore. As to a Gilels quarter note or crotchet at 84 MM against any of the historically informed slowest estimates of Allegro 110 MM Allegro, would you play the Allegros in Brandenburg Concerto No 5 in D major so slowly? As to Gilels K27, anyone is quicker.
I'm not talking about Brand. Conc., which was written by a whole different composer!
Please, stop that nonsense about 84 and 110 and 'allegro' and the so-called 'historically informed estimates' and bla bla, but listen to the music and, if you're able to open your heart, you'll find out very soon Michelangeli played it like an exercice ('ejercicio') without more, but Gilels as wonderful music.
WHEN WILL PEOPLE FINALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS MUSIC ABOUT ??!!
@geertdehoux 18th century publication of living composers were under the composer's direction (with a few errors by the printers). von Weber's comments date from 1/2 century after D. Scarlatti's active period, irrelevant. Your questions betray a lack of music history/musicology background; my reason to question your education. Disagree, but at least, cite a reference and a reason why. Contact my U tube directly for further discussion. S Foss, Piano, Organ, Harpsichord to much more to list.
Oh, don't you think I don't know Weber came AFTER D. Scarlatti ??!!
What an ARROGANT asshole you are!!
Sorry, but having more interesting things to do then losing my time with ignorant people who're unwilling to learn, I'm not interested in any further communication with you.
@geertdehoux Struck a nerve? As to a certain ignorant person who is unwilling to learn, if your arguments can't hold water, then go home and cry to mommy.
As to arrogance, disregard history, theory, and follow your "heart." I will follow my head.
And as to further communication, the feeling is mutual. Too bad you did not learn something in the exchange.
I already answered about 'Allegro' and 'the original' and speed...
My advice to many, other so-called 'musicians' (again): follow your heart and develope your own musical thinking, instead of being a slave of a stupid piece of paper!
5/5 and added to faves.... i heard a version 2 mins before this one and the guy played it at 200 mph.. this is the version i wanted and needed. cheeres...peace
that's always I'm thinking about . what would be more important thing between classical rule and musical creativity ? Whenever I play any music , I see those hided things like what could be more musical and romantic and I wanna do that , but If I should keep only rules , just I don't wanna ignore those musical possibility .
I agree! He plays it, one, too fast and two, without soul. I also think the song isn't meant to be allegro, it's meant to be andante! But alright, people may not agree with me. I do think this version is way better than Michelangeli's version.
Is there a Scarlatti autograph edition marked andante? It seems to me that the key to the tempo is the passage in bars 11-16 (1.29-1.40), in which the same figure is played six times. It sounds annoyingly repetitive in this performance, but perfectly all right in Michelangelo's.
Also , this is a "piece" not a "song". Songs have words.
the song was supposed to be played at 1/4 note=120 man, that was way too slow
leung2188 5 days ago
A treasure from Scarlatti, and great feeling from Gilels.
GeetarTennis 1 month ago
very......very......good^^
wwk6789 1 month ago 2
Divino Scarlatti, straordinario Gilels!!!
sugarve 1 month ago
did anyone else notice the wrongly read notes?... and then felt good that great pianists slip sometimes too? XD
Steinwaytoday 3 months ago
@Steinwaytoday such as...
flirt7777 2 months ago
@flirt7777 From 0:25 and on, he plays the same pattern in the right hand, instead of alternating it.
Steinwaytoday 2 months ago
@Steinwaytoday That depends if one is using the Longo edition or the urtext. The change you refer to exists in the urtext but not the Longo edition
Lv2lv2 1 month ago
@Steinwaytoday dumbass... the song was supposed to be like this man!
leung2188 5 days ago
@leung2188 Before insulting, try to inform yourself a little bit... for example by reading Lv2lv2 comment who informed me (*cough* respectfully *cough*) that there are differing editions.
Steinwaytoday 5 days ago
@Steinwaytoday leung2188 is correct. the song was 120
taichingkan 3 days ago
@Steinwaytoday mr DIPSHITSHITFUCKSHITCH!
taichingkan 3 days ago
@Steinwaytoday That's what the score says, dumbfucking crapshit!
taichingkan 3 days ago
@taichingkan I don't know what you mean with that 120 thing O_O but anyways, I HAVE ANOTHER SCORE CAPTAIN POOPY PANTS. Try topping THAT insult.
Steinwaytoday 2 days ago
I am also doing this piece for my grade 8 examination in November 2011!
airtraveller030 3 months ago
@InnocentOracle me tooo:P
adidas6330 5 months ago
Divino Scarlatti ..genio immnenso; di sonate stupende ne avrà fatte un centinaio almeno...intendo di livello eccezionale. Una volta ero a Napoli in un taxi e alla radio suonavano una sonata; il conducente cui ho detto se conosceva Scarlatti mi ha detto se mi riferivo alla trattoria.. Dopo la mia risata e precisazionigli ho chiestodi maradona: sapeva tutto..Simpatica scena.
ilovescarlatti 8 months ago 6
@ilovescarlatti peccato che non hai incontrato me :)
Noi portiamo ancora nel cuore tutti, da Provenzale a Scarlatti (padre e figlio), da Pergolesi a Paesiello, da Leonardo Vinci a Leo, da Jommelli a Durante... ricordiamo perfino il cattivo Principe di Venosa ed i suoi madrigali. Ascoltiamo anche i naturalizzati come Caresana, Anfossi e Sacchini... come dimenticare il super goloso Domenico Cimarosa... un saluto forte da Napoli ^_^
raimondodisangro84 1 month ago
I adore this master piece! Cant never get enough of it!!! Soo soo soothing,...
ovan22 9 months ago
@mymusic11ful: The composer made hardly any notations as this is a very early piece and so although the classical trend is to play it very fast like Michelangeli's version other more modern interpretations like here work just as well, in my opinion.
albeebley 10 months ago
@albeebley
I wholeheartedly agree -- both Gilels and Michelangeli's interpretations work very well. As a side note, at the 1938 Ysaÿe International Festival in Brussels, Belgium, Michelangeli placed seventh while Emil Gilels took the first prize. It was Michelangeli's first international competition. Arthur Rubinstein, one of the judges, stated that although Michelangeli gave an unsatisfactory performance, he already showed his impeccable technique.
HappyRick 7 months ago
Im doing this piece for my grade 8! :)
InnocentOracle 10 months ago 25
@InnocentOracle hey R U talking about the Royal test 2011?? i'm playing it too. plus, hw old R U? mez age: 10
>_<
jeffjeff2955 7 months ago
@InnocentOracle me tooxd
aivisbok 6 months ago
@InnocentOracle Did you choose it or was it recommended? Great taste. An enchanting piece. I chose Scarlatti list A. Beethoven Rondo Pathetique 3rd movement list B. and Chopin's Nocturne Op. 32 No. 1.
RhaegarTargaryen1884 4 months ago
I have never seen or played this Scarlatti piece, so I'm just curious what notations the composer intended. The difference between this interpretation, Perahia's interpretation, and Michelangeli's interpretation are soooo different! Can any musician help? Thank you.
mymusic11ful 10 months ago
Lovely. It takes great courage to play this piece so slowly. I like it.
ssnapelover 11 months ago
But im also wondering if this is the right way to play a song in Baroque period... This sounds very modern to me
msbrownization 11 months ago
@msbrownization yup and even so if you play like this in an exam, you probably wont get high marks because people tend to prefer the original interpretation or your own interpretation only if you are famous. :(
davincybla 9 months ago
@davincybla true... i wish i could play it this way... so that i could use pedals to cover up my flaws lol
msbrownization 9 months ago
Wow amazing!!!! And this is one of the grade 8 examination pieces as well!! :)
msbrownization 11 months ago
@msbrownization i know, huh.
jeffjeff2955 7 months ago
Baroque period songs, when u played isn't attach emotional ? Anyone can answer me thx:)
bella2008love 1 year ago
alil slow ay?
scout6686 1 year ago
I wan't to play this for my grade 8, the exam recording CD is so much faster than this, but I don't care, I love it like this, this is just perfect in my view.
jakaroo94 1 year ago
@jakaroo94
Or you Asian or are you living there ?
I know institutes in Asia use such a stupid 'exam recording CD', which is only tried to be imitated by Asian teachers and pupils!
How STUPID and how far from music itself this ignorant 'method' stays!!
Please, don't pay any further attention to 'grades' and 'exam recording CDs' and even lots of Asian teachers anymore, but let music grow from yourself!
All the best,
Geert Dehoux, pianist.
Belgian King's Prize Winner.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
Gilels' and Michelangeli's interprations are wonderful.
"Introspective" the one by Gilels, as "realistic" the one by Michelangeli. Sorry for my English. :-) Regards
gianm73yout 1 year ago
I'm not very into Scarlatti, or any keyboard works of the Baroque/Classical era...but this was quite a pleasent surprise.
mahler151 1 year ago
This is simply fantastic, my favourite one. To judge it for is tempo is a great mistake, for me. This interpretation is the so expressive that no other word is necessary to explain it. Let us listen to music and... let's dream!
musichiere70 1 year ago
@musichiere70
WELL SAID!
Thank you for your wisdom!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
I prefer Michelangeli's interpretation..
frablu3s 1 year ago
@frablu3s
M.'s "interpretation" ??
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@frablu3s
Actually, Michelangeli did hardly give an 'interpretation' of this piece, but a reproduction of notes, like a perfect machine, without more...
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux mmmmmm It's your opinion.
frablu3s 1 year ago
@frablu3s
Of course, it is.
But the word 'interpretation' means there is more than only playing notes.
There might be an interpretation by Michelangeli, of course.
But then, as there is lack of real 'expression' in this performance, my question is: which one ?
Regards,
G. Dehoux.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@frablu3s
I mean: lack of expression in Michelangeli's performance, not in Gilels', of course!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
This is superb, speed isn't everything :-)
FreddysHamster 1 year ago
I enjoy both this interpretaion and michelaneli's equally!
KearneyPiano 1 year ago
Maria Tipo, from her very first LP, recorded in 1955:
watch?v=9LKaDX3XqSg
thanks and regards
classicvinylbiz 1 year ago
@classicvinylbiz
Maria Tipo's Scarlatti performances are SPLENDID!!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
I have a Westminster LP (XWN 18180) from 1956 where Gilels plays this piece in 4 minutes. Very different interpretation. The record sleeve says: "Scarlatti was as much Eusebius as Florestan, and there is an exuisite poetry in this miniature masterpiece." I cannot but agree. I feel that the version Liszt111 shared with us is an "Eusebian" one.
Mrpiazzetta 1 year ago
didn't Michelangeli play this faster?
libetta 1 year ago
Лучшее исполнение этой сонаты. Никто еще не раскрыл в Скарлатти столь возвышенного содержания, как Гилельс.
botannick 1 year ago
the correct tempo...
mechkae1 1 year ago
Ah, simply wonderful, the best version I know. My version is not more than a very modest tribute to this one.
SarrasaniPianoCircus 2 years ago
I, as impartial listener, found in your performance, the "Italian Spice", a heart playing.
With all my respect to Mr Gilels, this time he was boring, very plain, very all in the right place.
I loved your version. And I liked to disagree with your modesty.
internosil 1 year ago
A fine interpretation of a wonderful sonata. Gilels plays it with great feeling, not like a finger exercise, like a lot of pianists do. There is so much more to Scarlatti than meets the eye - excuse me - ear!
lilythepink123 2 years ago
@lilythepink123
WELL said!!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
It took a while... listening and comparing it over and over again... and the strange thing is that I prefer Gilels version now (which goes beyond surprising tempo alone). In one word: GREAT, and in another three:: flabbergasting an touched. Thanks.
sinepecunia 2 years ago
I agree with hatem, I was about to post a comment on the wonderful job he does since it takes a good bit of self control to maintain this tempo he plays at. it's easy to get swept up by this piece and start playing too fast. So one of the things I hear in the suspended 'hesitancy' is the mark of masterful playing, certainly not languorousness.
ekdarnell 2 years ago 3
I think this is the most heartfelt playing of all time:)
gugunchik 2 years ago 6
This is the difference between being a great pianist (Michelangeli) and a giant among pianists (Gilels, Horowitz, Rubinstein). The difference between enjoying a performance as opposed to witnessing an event, a connection with the performer, composer, and the music itself.
sasha42196 2 years ago 2
If you are implying that G, H, or R are better pianists than Michelangeli, than you are simply wrong,especially when it comes to Scarlatti. Oh so wrong.
FlashyCat2008 2 years ago
I am not implying anything. I am talking about a deep musical intellect, innate and unique ability to bring out something from a composition that perhaps even the composer himself did not fully realize. I believe that Giles was in that unique category. It doesn't diminish Michelangeli's interpretation or technique. I was talking about a personal connection with the musician and the music, not about who is better, at Scarlatti specifically, or the piano generally.
sasha42196 2 years ago 5
I still have to disagree. Rubenstein generally played very faithfully to the composers composition with little embellishing; that is probably what I like most about him. I have to admit that do not know much about Gilels. Horowitz played closer to Horowitz than to the composer's wishes and most often got it wrong. Other than his Scarlatti and Scriabin interpretations, everything else is just plain wrong; uneven tempos, weird styling, etc...
FlashyCat2008 2 years ago
Agreed. Horowitz treated music like a circus, no depth whatsoever most of the time. Reminds me of another one, Lang Lang...
Perkeno 2 years ago
@Perkeno
Oh, like a circus ?!!
And no depth ?!
Poor man, you understand nothing about good music...!!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@FlashyCat2008
I strongly believe Master Horowitz had a hundred times more musicality than you, who sees everything from 'a certain style', score a.s.o.
Don't criticize a musical genius in such a cheap way, please!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@sasha42196
VERY WELL said!!
Thank you.
Geert Dehoux, pianist.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux
I've listened to your videoed performances and have to say that you show great promise. Perhaps wih a little more modesty and honest self appraisal you might produce performances that don't have the metronomic quality of the musical box. You have have my best wishes.
Hardwyck 1 year ago
Comment removed
geertdehoux 1 year ago
Comment removed
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@Hardwyck
Honestly, I think many pianists lack what you call "the metronomic quality of the musical box".
A cordial greeting,
Geert Dehoux, pianist.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sasha42196
Well said!
Geert Dehoux, pianist.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@FlashyCat2008
"Oh, so wrong" ? Prove it!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
this style is very beautiful in piano . . . the faster one maybe better in harpsichord.
rochelimit55555 2 years ago 3
"... un gioco ardito". Pur condotto in modo "sbagliato", "romantico", a chi non piace? Per un grande compositore (Scarlatti) è sufficiente essere un grande interprete (Gilels). La filologia in questi casi lascia il tempo che trova.
luigiciotoli 2 years ago
Clearly "incorrect" (i.e., far from allegro), yet clearly meaningful and lovely nonetheless. The tripping and leaping sequences sound sort of out of place when played slowly like this, but other than that, the pace is very fine.
archkevinbrown 2 years ago 4
"Clearly incorrect"? "Far from allegro"?? I'm convinced that "Allegro" in Scarlatti is far from the meaning which it took later on - look at Kirckpatrick's index and compare the tempo instructions, and you will find out that "Allegro" sometimes is close to "Andante" indeed...
Gilels understood very much more of this music than many of his colleagues who misuse Scarlatti to show their quick fingers.
hatem52 2 years ago 8
Indeed, allegro doesn't imply the rush in which pieces like this are often played, but it does mean happy; regardless of what it might have implied regarding overall tempo, it definitely does not imply the kind of hesitancy or langorousness Gilels displays. Again, phrases that clearly leap or trip sound odd when when suspended like this. I'd concede that Michelangeli may have been faster than D.S. intended; perhaps something inbetween is more "correct," but I doubt more enjoyable than either.
archkevinbrown 2 years ago
Gilels phrasing is wonderful, and very musical. "leap, trip" i do not know what you are talking about.
davidbaker03 2 years ago
@hatem52
VERY WELL said!!
But something more: the authentic meaning of 'Allegro' is NOT 'fast', but 'happy'!
And who wrote this music down ? Musicology teaches us it wasn't Domenico himself! So, what does, in this case, 'Allegro' or whatever exactly mean ??!
I would say: "Let your heart speak through music!" and then you'll understand Gilels' great art better!
And that's not always what Michelangeli did.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@hatem52
Very WELL said!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@hatem52 As with interpretations by a world class a pianist; tempo indication tossed out the window. Gilels not even close to Allegro. Andante at a moderate pace and Allegro equals fast. Approximation, converting Quantz beats per minute to Metronome Markings, Andate is circa 79-88 MM and Allegro is 110-129. Allegro at its slowest is still much faster than Andate at its quickest. Compare at the metronome online. This is circa 84MM and sloooow, Although I like the tonal shadings.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
First of all, it seems there isn't a 'original', this means Domenico's own manuscript of this piece. So, where would the word 'Allegro' come from, then ??
Then, about 'allegro' itself: Allegro means 'happy' but, unfortunately, tradition has been misleading ignorant people, so that it became 'fast'.
The fact a metronome uses 'Allegro' as a speed indication, is actually misleading.
Last, but not least: please don't take a stupid metronome as your guide, but your heart.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux An 18th c. publication is as valid as a manuscript. Ask any musicologist. Manuscript collections are known by libri of origins Parma, Venice, Lisbon.
As to the term Allegro, it is universally known as fast, just as Adagio (ad agio, Italian at ease). If you would only read Quantz, but you disdain history and truth.
The metronome markings are from Quantz's method use the pulse (beats per minute) which were converted into Metronome numbers, which I tyou could relate .
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
You say: "AN 18th c. p. is as valid as a manuscript"!
What a SERIOUS error!!
How can something be AS valid AS ??!
I'm not very interested in history.
For myself, MUSIC itself is more important than tradition and generally accepted terms.
I know how the system works, but thanks for your explanation, anyway.
A cordial greeting,
Geert Dehoux, pianist.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux Very good to hear from you, again. I will clarify, 18th cen. publications have been acknowledged as authorative source (or even more so) equal to a manuscript when an autograph (in the composer's hand and not anothers copy) is absent. That opinion has been in the majority since Czerny's edition of the Partitas of Bach. Publication in the 18th cen. was very rare occurence, usually for works of special merit, often offered in subscriptions, and very relatively expensive.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@geertdehoux con'd Music history aids in the understanding of music of earlier times. Performance Practices of 250 years ago evolved & were lost in time In the 19th cent Scarlatti's works were played "Schumann tempo, , Allegro became Presto, Presto played as fast as possible, faster, and faster still. A reaction against this tradition birthed Urtext editions.
Actually you are following a tradition among concert pianist, disregarding the manuscripts tempo, dynamics. You are in good company.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
Hello again, Steve!
Thanks for your very interesting comments!
As art is a very personal matter, I'm sure 'the last word' about the 'right' (but what is that, anyway ?) tempo and performance hasn't been said yet.
But what do you mean with "You're in good company", please ?
Kindest regards,
Geert.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux In good company refers to living & late pianists who envisioned beyond the scores & interpreted their hearts' innermost secrets. Passages played P when written F, a ritard or rubato or notes inégales taken, or with emphasis added to certain notes transform pieces into personal statements of truth. Who else can breath a soul into mundane printed notes on a page? A performer is quintessential for a work's apotheosis into art for audiences to enjoy.
Happy Holidays,
Steve
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
Well, Steve, I'm glad you see it this way!
Many musicians nowadays are 'slaves' of the scores.
For myself, a score is only an INDICATION, written down by a human being at a certain moment on a certain place. Of course a composer can have wonderful ideas, but so can a performer!
Composers need good performers, and performers need good composers.
Many people believe a composer's performance of one of his own works is the best one.
Well, it's not impossible, of course.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux I have maintained that most scores are outline of a performance. I initially became interested in Urtext editions & later facsimile manuscript scores to clear away a layers of "varnish" applied by some editors (some of them pianists whom I admired) which started my interest in musicology. The K27 piece has the extended passage (0:23 to 0:36) that Longo removed directions; the hands were to switch positions, not all pianist are aware or if aware perform this direction.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
Well, honestly, I try to get an Urtext edition for as many musical compositions as possible.
But it must be said, that sometimes even an so-called Urtext edition is not 100% original, either.
About how composers write indications about pianistic items, like fingering and switching positions: I've learned the performer should take the best solution for himself. This means it's often not a good idea to follow what's on the score.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux I agree with you exactly on fingering; one discovers what works best for oneself as no two pair of hands are the same. The few autographs with J S Bach's fingering are interesting historically, however with the exception of the Applicato (a 3 over 4 and 4 over 5 excercise) from W F Claiverbuchlein, I do not use the original fingering indications. None of the surviving examples are found in concert pieces.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
It seems Chopin used to play with a very 'personal' fingering too, mostly based on the natural 'sound' of each finger.
But let's not forget he probably had what is called 'Merfan' disease, and so had Paganini.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux I was unaware of the mild Marfan Syndrome connection in Chopin. I always connected Paganini technique to his lack of "webbing' between the fingers. Marfan Syndrome I am acquainted with only in the extreme cases in terms of excessive skeletal growth.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@geertdehoux Years of playing the WTC changed my ideas on fingering especially on playing fugues which has carried over into literature of other periods. Some might call my methods eccentric (I would prefer ecletic) the goal is for a minimum of motion, muscle relaxtion (especially needed for speed), and ease of execution. (Sounds like a Kung Fu tract).
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
I think you're perfectly right: actually this is the 'best' technique, although brilliant pianists like Kissin and Weissenberg make much more 'tensed' movement with their finger muscles.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux The more tensed movement is part of piano technique (can be usual for certain types of tonal coloring) however working against a tensed muscle impedes speed in quick passages and can be exhausting overtime. Playing a piano can be a sprint or a marathon depending on the piece, and during a long program anything that tires the performer over the long run needs to be minimized as much as possible.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@geertdehoux For an exercise piece this would make sense (cross hand technique), but for a concert performance is this essential? (Well, I do switch hands, even though it makes a smooth an interpretation a tad more difficult). I have been to concerts or heard recordings of number of composers interpreting their own works, I can say only a few would the best performance, and in these instances the composer was better know as a virtuoso in his own write rather than as a composer.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
You're absolutely right!!
And crossing hands and all the other stuff should not be done, ONLY because the composer wrote it down like that!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux Poor Scarlatti become rather large in his later years and could no longer play crossed hand pieces. We wouldn't have the large collection of Sonatas had Scarlati had not been a compulsive gambler.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
What do you mean by this, please ?
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux A learning a new piece deals with the sum of one's education, experience, intuition, and technique. And after it is in your repetoire, your collective sum changes. It changes you, for the better. The same can be said about revisiting a piece with a fresh approach.
I embarassed a harpsishordist who let me play his instrument during an intermission. The crowd I drew praised the tonal quality my performance. I said the builder deserved the kudos to save face of the kind keyboardist.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@geertdehoux Cellist can tell if fellow a Cellist is playing his regular instrument or a borrowed one and whose cello was borrowed. Two or more performers playing the same piano will sound either subtlely or significantly different. As the electric guitarsist say, "Tone is in the Fingers."
As to the MIDI files played on a computer, their are some very technically endowed pianists who sound just like a computer; no feeling or taste with every note perfect and the performance unmemorable.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@geertdehoux I have yet to be emotionally moved by a MIDI File performance (computer performance) of any work, except some pieces which engendered disgust . I must confess that I am a bit of a philistine concerning a quantity of "modern" music. Some modern music employ gimmics; performance art (not music, my views about Cage's 4′33″), an insult to the audiences intelligence. The fault is within me., however, I blame University music depts. for promoting dissonance over harmony & form.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
But let's not forget composing and performing (which is: playing music itself) are two DIFFERENT things!
Are good script writers the best actors ? Generally, they're not.
And are great actors the best script writers ? Not necessarely, at all!
Thanks for your wise words, which don't serve only this humble pianist, but also many other people interested in music and arts!
Have a very nice Christmas time and a new year, full of interesting discoveries!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux Fortunately, there is no shortage of pianists (and other musicians), who illuminate something new, even to an old concert warhorse. How fortunate to live in a time of recorded performances.
I compose music (and have been for the last 40 years). In my pieces, I am more interested in what others see in a piece and what they bring to the equation.
May the New Year bring happiness & good health to you and your family.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
You compose music ? Interesting! Did/do you write for the piano, too ?
Where can I find your compositions, please ?
What you say about what others might see in your own creation, shows the opposite of pretention.
I think music is MUCH more than only scores and bla bla...
A nice Christmas time and a very interesting 2011!
A cordial greeting,
Geert.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux A score is not so much a mystery as a personal discovery. It is only what you read into and what you can get out of it. Everyone would be happy with digitalized performances of MIDI files played back through a computer sound card if music was just the notes.
I could say the same with musical instruments, no two performers sound the same on a piano, harpsichord, or church organ (or add in your favorite instrument).
Best Regards,
Steve
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
A most cordial greeting to you, your family and your friends,
from Belgium under the beautiful, white but also cold snow!
Geert.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux cont'd Presto translates to ready not Very fast.
Tradition has nothing to do with Allegro being fast. Allegro=fast is one of the most common terms in music and among one of the oldest Tempo indications. Musical Instruments, forms, dynamics, ect are all in Italian as the earliest successful musicians were either Italian or studied in Italy and the practice spread. Sonata-Allegro form? Beethoven was the 1st to use metronome markings for Allegro and his indications; very fast.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
It was the great Aldo Ciccolini himself who told me, a few years ago, people misunderstand 'Allegro', 'Presto' and many other 'musical' terms.
What did Allegro mean to Chopin and what did it mean to Bach ? The same speed ? And than: what IS 'fast', anyway ?
WHAT fast ? Each time of the bar ? The melody ? The bass notes ? The small notes ? Nothing in this is clear!
Listen, f. ex., to old recordings of Chopin's pupils' pupils playing his Waltzes!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux My teachers were students of Widor and Dupre. They understood the terms very well. Their advice as to tempo dealt with the size and acoustics of the hall. Other factors had to do with the Time Signature (important in Baroque music, can be an indicator of Tempo when words such as Allegro are absence, but that's involves music history), the composition's form, the measure containing the most complex writing and fingering. and of course good taste.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@geertdehoux con't
I am well acquainted with Chopin's pupil's surving recordings. Likewise the editions of Mikuli, Tellefsen, and Georges Mathias's student Raoul Pugno (based on his teacher and original publicastions, history). Chopin was played all over the map, de Pachmann's recordings and Welt piano rolls. For that matter, Chopin rarely played the same way twice.
Best Regards, Steve
PS For Baroque period tempo consult Cory Hall (the 3rd person to write on the subject.)
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
Hello again, Steve!
Finally someone who knows what he's talking about, as 95% of comments on Youtube comes from idiots and scum.
A cordial greeting,
Geert.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@Renshen1957 I repeat: have a look on a l l tempo indications and you will see, that there is a kind of ranking in Scarlatti's tempos. And if you are able to read in german: see in Harald Keller, D. S. - on page 63 you will find a table in which it is evident that Allegro is exactly in the middle between the extremes of S.'s (rich) tempo instructions. Being Italian he knew, what he wrote. And Quantz is not very significant in this context: he came from another musical culture (Potsdam!!) ...
hatem52 1 year ago
@hatem52 2nd attempt earlier post appear. Potsdam didn't exist in a vacuum, Frederick the Great's court, Berlin nearby. Germany was heavily influenced by Italy. Quantz studied in Dresden and Vienna, toured England and France (He critized Vivaldi's wild performance habits). Many great musicians were cosmopolitan, knew Italian music or studied abroad since the time of Heinrich Schütz. Spain wasn't a vacuum, Queen Barbara had Italian Pianos and a english Harpsichord.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@hatem52 cont'd. I have read Keller (I read in several languages). Allegro was a modifier rather than an absolute time. One also has to take into account the Sonatas with no tempo indications, these exist in the manuscripts as well as published in the 30 Essercizi. The note values and time signatures as play a factor for any piece without tempi instructions and would be further modified by the words Andante, Allegro etc. To place Allegro between extemes is a simplistic solution.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@hatem52
Thanks for the interesting information, seen from the view of musicology.
However musicology should only give more information ABOUT music.
It's not music itself.
Therefore I prefer MUSIC first, and then some knowledge about history, tradition etc. may follow. But it isn't really necessary.
Nowadays many musicians pay too much attention to musicology and forget to PLAY MUSIC.
At least, this is my own opinion and experience.
A cordial greeting,
Geert Dehoux, pianist.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@hatem52
VERY well said!
Geert Dehoux, pianist.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@archkevinbrown
Please read my former comment on 'Allegro'.
Thanks.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
Can anyone please tell me why this version has the name K. 27 (L. 449)?????? is there a better name to describe this perfectly slow version? all the other versions are played at 200 mph/ kmh.-............please help
ReinhardvonHolst 2 years ago
The K27 number is from Ralph Kirkpatrick's Catalog of Scarlatti's Sonatas. Kirkpatrick number system is Chronologically (date of composition).
The L449 is from a earlier century catalog of Allesandro Longo. Longo edition of Scarlatti was heavily edited (Ornaments written out, etc) and in some Sonatas "re-written."
The original is Allegro, in Cut Time as I recall. Gilels interpretation is rather pedestrian, at a speed most people would practice at before speeding the piece up.
Renshen1957 2 years ago
Correction, it's in 3/4 time, Lapse of memory on my part.
Renshen1957 2 years ago
thank you, thank you, thank you,
ReinhardvonHolst 2 years ago
Your Welcome,
If you are looking for the sheet music, then Werner Icking Music Archive (use Google for url) has Sonata K27 in PDF form as a free download.
Renshen1957 2 years ago
@Renshen1957
Which "original" ??!
The rest of your comment is just stupid, without more.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux The original is in 30 Essercizi ("Exercises") the only Sonatas published in Domenico Scarlatti's lifetime of which this Sonata the the 27th. Kirkpatrick assigned theses Sonatas number K 1 - K30 in his catalog. The publication has the term Allegro (= fast) which is accepted terminology in contemporary 18th century lexicons. The composer's intention was a quicker performance.
I give the benefit of the doubt that most posters have at least a some music education. In your case???
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
Published in D. Scarlatti's lifetime ? But that still doesn't mean HE WROTE them down himself, does it ?!
And 'Essercizi' is Italian, while it seems he spent most of his time in Spain, so was the name 'Essercizi' his ??
I'm sorry, but an "accepted" terminology doesn't mean much to me.
And how can YOU know the composer's intention was "a quicker performance" ?
Did he tell you this ? And "quicker' than who ? Than Gilels' ?!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux Scarlatti Sonatas 555 exist in several collections (not in his hand) and also as the Essercizi. Born in Naples, Scarlatti's use of Italian word Sonata (also used as in Germany, France, England, etc) is by no means unique. Nor are the terms Presto, Allegro, Andante, which are found through art the 555 Sonatas as well as the Essercizi.
Music publication in the Baroque Period was usually only reserved for special works by well known composers, at a very expensive price. Cont'd
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
I don't care about published words as Presto, Allegro and so on and certainly if they weren't written down by the composer himself.
The word Sonata is the female passive of 'sonare', which makes is something female (a piece of music) which 'is sounded'. Nothing more.
Later it was used for a certain construction, which is actually misleading (again).
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux I omitted some replies, the constraints of 500 characters. I would you hope you know that Scarlatti has been dead over 250 years. His intentions are found in the definitions of his day, which you choose to ignore. As to a Gilels quarter note or crotchet at 84 MM against any of the historically informed slowest estimates of Allegro 110 MM Allegro, would you play the Allegros in Brandenburg Concerto No 5 in D major so slowly? As to Gilels K27, anyone is quicker.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
I'm not talking about Brand. Conc., which was written by a whole different composer!
Please, stop that nonsense about 84 and 110 and 'allegro' and the so-called 'historically informed estimates' and bla bla, but listen to the music and, if you're able to open your heart, you'll find out very soon Michelangeli played it like an exercice ('ejercicio') without more, but Gilels as wonderful music.
WHEN WILL PEOPLE FINALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS MUSIC ABOUT ??!!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
Don't you know even in Carl Maria von Weber's time there was still hugh discussion about Italian musical terminology ?!
Like 'Andantino': is this faster or slower than Andante ?
So, I'm not convinced by what was found in 18th century lexicons!!
Why do you think I have no musical education ?
Because I think in a different way than you ?
Does that give you the right to doubt about my education ?!
But, of course, one is always free to "doubt"...
Geert Dehoux, pianist.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux 18th century publication of living composers were under the composer's direction (with a few errors by the printers). von Weber's comments date from 1/2 century after D. Scarlatti's active period, irrelevant. Your questions betray a lack of music history/musicology background; my reason to question your education. Disagree, but at least, cite a reference and a reason why. Contact my U tube directly for further discussion. S Foss, Piano, Organ, Harpsichord to much more to list.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
Oh, don't you think I don't know Weber came AFTER D. Scarlatti ??!!
What an ARROGANT asshole you are!!
Sorry, but having more interesting things to do then losing my time with ignorant people who're unwilling to learn, I'm not interested in any further communication with you.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux Struck a nerve? As to a certain ignorant person who is unwilling to learn, if your arguments can't hold water, then go home and cry to mommy.
As to arrogance, disregard history, theory, and follow your "heart." I will follow my head.
And as to further communication, the feeling is mutual. Too bad you did not learn something in the exchange.
Renshen1957 1 year ago
@Renshen1957
I already answered about 'Allegro' and 'the original' and speed...
My advice to many, other so-called 'musicians' (again): follow your heart and develope your own musical thinking, instead of being a slave of a stupid piece of paper!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
Different compilations -- Kirkpatrick and Longo. There are hundreds of sonatas.
JEP177777 2 years ago
@ReinhardvonHolst
K refers to Kirkpatrick's catalague.
L to Longo's.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@geertdehoux Thank you
ReinhardvonHolst 1 year ago
@ReinhardvonHolst
You're welcome.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
This is perfection. I have nothing negative to say whatsoever.
hymntonight 2 years ago 3
i like it both fast and slow........ the song that is
xxxbh4everxxx 2 years ago
This is a very beautiful and moving rendition of this sonata. Maybe a bit too much romantic but I love it very much.
In a more faithful style, Michelangeli is extraordinary.
rigel48 2 years ago 4
5/5 and added to faves.... i heard a version 2 mins before this one and the guy played it at 200 mph.. this is the version i wanted and needed. cheeres...peace
ReinhardvonHolst 2 years ago
hm I love this piece so much, it's so gentle
theK0OKS 2 years ago
sublime
eloyhbermudez 2 years ago 2
Grande Giles
frederickfrederikfre 2 years ago 2
Touch is more important than speed...intensity don't dipend from speed.
frncgrc 2 years ago 4
unless you can play at the speed of light XD
demonninjaspider 2 years ago
@frncgrc
V E R Y WELL said!!
Thank you!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
Di una lentezza estrema. Che solo un grande può permettersi. E Gilels è un grande.
deadlift65 2 years ago 2
At least Michelangeli knows that Allegro means fast!
For sure it's a little too much, but he can emphasize every voice even at that speed.
Gilels does this as well and plays beautiful too, but thats not "Allegro" as well.
But that makes good music, playing not the average musicians speed.
derritschi 2 years ago 2
and since it was composed for cembalo it had to be allegro because long notes don't work that well on a cembalo.
derritschi 2 years ago
@derritschi
Which "long notes" ??!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
that's always I'm thinking about . what would be more important thing between classical rule and musical creativity ? Whenever I play any music , I see those hided things like what could be more musical and romantic and I wanna do that , but If I should keep only rules , just I don't wanna ignore those musical possibility .
DennisChoy1 2 years ago
@DennisChoy1
In that case, please LET YOURSELF GO!!!
Don't follow restricting and relative rules, but Y O U R HEART!!
geertdehoux 1 year ago
@derritschi
Which "Allegro" ??!
Please read my comments above.
geertdehoux 1 year ago
michelangeli plays like machine
no music
ur5maw 2 years ago
I agree! He plays it, one, too fast and two, without soul. I also think the song isn't meant to be allegro, it's meant to be andante! But alright, people may not agree with me. I do think this version is way better than Michelangeli's version.
theK0OKS 2 years ago
Is there a Scarlatti autograph edition marked andante? It seems to me that the key to the tempo is the passage in bars 11-16 (1.29-1.40), in which the same figure is played six times. It sounds annoyingly repetitive in this performance, but perfectly all right in Michelangelo's.
Also , this is a "piece" not a "song". Songs have words.
Hardwyck 2 years ago 2
Sorry Michelangeli
Hardwyck 2 years ago