Heldentenor sing-off - Siegmund's Valse cry from Walkure - 13 tenors

[FacePaster]

If we're just judging the quality of the "Waelse"s alone I think the winners are in no particular order:

Mario del Monaco, James King, Max Lorenz and Peter Hofmann (though I wish he had sustained them a bit longer). Obviously massive credit to Melchior for longness of breath. And honorable mention to Placido Domingo.

[Isolde227]

One should say Melchior, and his Wälse is the most prelongend and therefore the most impressive I guess. But my favourites are James King, Jon Vickers, Peter Hofmann and Siegfried Jerusalem, not necessarily in that order. And I was disappointed that there wasn't a recording of René Kollo among these giants, because I think he belongs among them as well.

[56mikeo]

Do yourselves a favor and find Ludwig Suthaus singing this.

[FunkMan53]

I was at the performance in 1969!

[FunkMan53]

05:31 James King!

[mremile72]

love the 4.02 version :)

[Tilantelcontar]

I thought he would never come to an end ;)

[TheCoolSoprano]

There's something good to be said for every one of them, but after Melchior, everyone else sounded like an out-of-breath pansy.

[Pitagoriko17]

The best: Melchior.

[bb1111116]

Overall in this role I prefer Vickers. I recommend his 1961 Die Walkure recording which also includes; Birgit Nilsson, George London, Rita Gorr, and many other very good singers with Erich Leinsdorf conducting the London Symphony Orchestra.

[misslydiasteptoe]

Such an informative and, yes, fun compilation. Thanks very much.

[bluluvsrae]

MDM!!! WOW!!! Not expecting that.....

[jojojo943]

Just from what is presented here, in one person's opinion: Melchior, MDM, Lorenz, Vickers, King

[bearss23]

Siegfried's "Valse"? I was expecting him to break into "Je veux vivre" :-)))) jk

(Ich..will..leeeeeeebeeeen in... die...sen träuuuu..me...)

[mariojunco]

1-Vinay, 2 Melchior 3 Jerusalem 4 Vickers

[paulostroff99]

Stunning,but where is possibly the best of them all-Franz Volker.. TY rexeterne for posting and for at least including Max Lorenz.. After all he was Hitler's favourite tenor and perhaps the most popular German after Hitler himself..BTW-he was not a Nazi but in fact happily married to a Jewish woman.

[Paracelsus72]

James King. I love the tone of his voice. He is also fantastic in Bohm's 1966 recording from Bayreuth.

[HeavyOpera1]

Well, on that one phrase, I have to give it to Melchior, though Smith at the end was a surprise. My favorite siegmund is Vickers, though, overall. Some great singers in this lineup. Thanks

[SpcyBrnMrd]

Jon Vickers FTW!

[SpcyBrnMrd]

Jon Vickers FTW!

[verdiwag]

Great work again!

1. Melchior for being a complete show-off but a fantastic one!

2. Smith - really wonderful - hope he's still singing!

3. King - liked his warm timbre and power.

Honorable mention for Domingo - I can't speak about his German but he doesn't come off too badly in this company.

[Dileguanotte]

Nice Compilation...,

but where is Kollo?

[1Victorinus]

The Melchior recording has been tampered with. Max Lorenz is, without a doubt, the greatest Wagnerian tenor of all time.

[giorgiozo]

@1Victorinus Max Lorenz is one of the greatest wagnerian tenor, -but what do you write about Lauritz Melchior?! It is lie! If you don't know - don't post here your disinformation about him! Thanks.

[ublade82]

Definitely Melchior again. Maybe it's tougher to say because you hear it first, but it's just better.

[Aetion]

Although I don’t like this sort of “competitions”, mainly because the recordings are not always of the same quality, I would also go for Mario del Monaco. IMHO, the difference is obvious. And here we are again: MATTER OF TASTE!

[BetterMario]

Mario Del Monaco, di gran lunga sopra tutti....

[kidd32888]

Domingo is not measuring up with the true Heldentenors..............

[tenorgoodfella]

Great sing-off...! I knew of Max Lorenz but obviously not enough..! He is incredible..!

Vinay has the color of blood and honey.. just a true God..!

Thanks for this video.. they are all wonderful tenors...!

[vconte613]

nice compilation! I'm sure we all have our emotional favorites. The tenors I have seen live in performance: Domingo, Thomas and Vickers were all wonderful in their own way. One phrase just doesn't make a performance even though the selected music captures the essence of heldentenorkunst. I saw Jess Thomas perform in a concert version in the early 1970"s with Berstein conducting the NY Phil. I have yet to attend a performance to equal it in any genre. You just had to be there.

[Santasbestbuddy]

I have always been overawed by Domingo's almost inhuman capabilities as a singer, untill now, when I hear him up against singers who are his true peers. Dean Smith really is extradorinary, but for my money you can't bear Melchior. I don't know if it's the recording but Monaco always sounds like there's about three voices singing at once. That man's voice was a leviathan.

[rayrox222]

I looked this up after yesterday's Die Walkure Met broadcast I saw in theaters when Kauffman blew me away with his awesome performance :) such a cool part of the opera for me. Always gives chills!

as for these . . . wtf Melchior how does he sing the two notes with so much power for that long? I find that the audio tricks me in some later ones in that because it's richer better quality, you get to thinking the tenor is better too. After listening closely I gotta say Melchior is my favorite

[maiandy92]

Is it just me, or does Max Lorenz sound like Homer Simpson?

[eurydike]

i like Lorenz´ voice:-)

[ChelseaJoeCool]

1. James King, because his singing and diction is brilliant!

2. Melchior, pure Heldentenor material!

3. Svaholm, the quality is bad, but one can clearly hear that he gives us a sample of his unique technique.

It is unfair to judge Windgassen for this bad performance in the 1960`s, he had better years. And Vinay sings poorly, he shouts "Walse" not "Wälse".

[Shogunmiyuchan]

@ChelseaJoeCool please note that Vinay started out his operatic career as a Baritone, not a Tenor.

[ChelseaJoeCool]

@Shogunmiyuchan Lots of tenors started as baritone, I think King did that too, so this is not an argument against his weak performance.

[Shogunmiyuchan]

@ChelseaJoeCool I wasn't arguing against anyone's weak performance, was only making a point; not implying anything.

[pachydermo]

Hard to really compare because the quality of the recordings is so varied. I would have loved to have heard Melchior live. Such a strange voice. Must have been really something live. But for this contest and again, judging not just the quality of the voices but also the quality of the recording, I'd have to go with Vinay. Who else could bring such a manly baritonal tone to the heldentenor repertoire? Certainly not the most beautiful voice ever, but for this particular excerpt, WOW!

[Cavaradossi10]

Fascinating - thank you for posting this. For me in this, as in so much else, it has to be KIng for refulgent, exciting tone and a sense of Siegmund's anger and feeling of betrayal in the second cry. Melchior always impresses, although perhaps because of the way the microphones of the time captured his voice, he always sounds to me as if he's singing through a cold! Vickers sounds unusually restrained here (no bad thing) and Domingo and Dean Smith are admirable. Thank you again.

[salmig99]

Despite hit antics, Melchior is still the best of them all.. with James King a very close second. Max Lorenz would probably be up there with those two.. but he's a little off-key as often. Del Monaco is an interesting find.. Hoffman proves yet again that he was not just looks. I had never heard of RD Smith, but he's up there as well. Maybe Domingo, Windgassen, and Vinay are a bit less spectacular, but still very good. As to Vickers, he must have been having an off day.

[TheVerdiBaritone]

Thank you for this post. Although from a recording one can not asses what the impact was in the house, careful listening can teach us something of how various voices cope with very challenging material.

[bodiloto]

1Ramon Vinay

2Del Monaco

3James King

[bodiloto]

1Ramon Vinay e Del Monaco.

[PEAinSwe]

Max Lorenz! Wow!!!

James King is always a superb Siegmund - also here.

Also liked the Mario Del Monaco vitality.

And the Jerusalem desperation.

Domingo is really great in this role.

Robert Dean Smith is spot on in his intonation ans attack. No sneaking up on the notes.

Normally I like Vickers, but in this recording he is not himself.

[stevevandien]

I might have rated these before, don't recall:) Melchior strikes me as sui generis. Lorenz comes closest to LM's standard. Vinay was a great artist, but by this stage in his career his voice was becoming thinner and less steady. Windgassen's voice lacks any semblance of flow. MDM's stock in trade was sheer, clarion power; he always pushed the music in that direction, even when it called for lower dynamics:). Unfortunately, this MDM "Walse" is acoustically awry; so it's tough to (read on)

[stevevandien]

@stevevandien . . . determine just how MDM sounded in this role. More anon:) --

[stevevandien]

@stevevandien . . . Vickers isn't at his best here -- he is trying to rein in his natural volume, I guess because of Karajan's influence -- but is still the best Siegmund since Melchior. I am a great admirer of James King, but he seems to be struggling during the "Walse" cries. Thomas in 1972 is already past his prime; he sounds strained and thin. Hoffman was in good voice for this recording, but he never struck me as a true heldentenor. Jerusalem had a strong, durable voice (read on) . . .

[trombo8]

for me

1.Lorenz

2. Hoffman

3. Robert Dean Smith

[siegmund80]

Windgassen was singing too many heavy roles during the 1960 Festspiele, one of the reasons he sounds below par here. Hans Hopf sang the Siegfried-roles, normally the roles Windgassen was singing in the Ring conducted by Kempe.

- Number 1: Max Lorenz

- Number 2: James King

- Number 3: Robert Dean Smith ( a revelation indeed!)

[hedgechair]

On this little exposure in a few moments I suggest

1/ Domingo, simply for his focus, trumpet tone and rhythmic energy. (not the biggest

voice)

2/ James King , Underrated?

3/ Robert Dean Smith, A real voice, good .

[mariusfelix]

As always: Maxe!

[cantorandopera]

In anticipation of hearing Kaufman this spring at the Met as Siegmund, here is my take on your wonderful upload: The King was most powerful because the orchestra and soloist made the greatest dramatic impact. Domingo has a unique timbre for Wagner and was very good. Smith was amazing! The Melchior was just a very long note and devoid of emotion, at least to me. The others were all over the map - I also liked Lorenz here. Thanks for putting this together. Rowna

[1401JSC]

Amazing the number of times "Wo" doesn't arrive at the same time as the accented orchestra chord (which serves to underline the dramatic impact of the W).

Is it that some great voices don't recognise a dramatic gesture in the Wagner orchestra or are they frightened that the voice in medium range will be drowned by the orchestra?

Amazing prolongation by Lorentz and Domingo. But the first does it from dramatic anguish and the second to show off his voice.

[SusannaBrennt]

1. Mario del Monaco (astonishingly, but only the cry, not the rest)

2. James King

[BariTenoreDram]

you all vote only for the power...please the best is max lorenz for the pronuncia diction etc before the high f# and vickers for the dinamics !!!!!

[cantanteporsiempre]

My favourites

1- James King

2- Ramon Vinay

[marlyharris]

This is a treat but I always return to Clifton Forbis. We're so fortunate to have a truly great heldentenor in the 21st century.

[mdgaultney]

James King. No Doubt. Even with Melchior's ungodly length, it still doesn't have the aggressiveness of King.

[bigus]

after melchior its just all blah unfortunately.

[gonzofaeton]

Vinay is a real Heldentenor, one of my favorites, specially under Knappertbusch, it must be noticed that some are live recordings and other just sudio.

[VivaRenata]

I am now having really bad flashbacks of all the horrible tenors I heard at the Metropolitan Opera in the 1970's and early 1980's, Vickers, Jess Thomas and James "death-ratlle" McCracken.

If only I had been old enough to hear one Fidelio or Otello with a tenor worthy of the role.

[Operafiend22]

@VivaRenata well...you must be wanting to wish you were deaf with the current crop of tenors then ;)

[VivaRenata]

Compilations are interesting but they don't do justice to the singers involved - the excerpts represent several decades, some live while others were concert or studio performances.

Lorenz is incredible, but I must question Melchior's status as one of the great Wagnerian tenors of the past century. Vickers is simply effete and why did we ever have to put up with him?

The recording of Svanholm is of poor quality and not representative. Del Monaco is amazing in a role not central to his repertoire.

[mozzrt]

Del Mon can shout, but imagine the rest...Svanholm is more of a Lohengrin although he was top Wagner tenor at the Met 46-56, King isn't just splendid here, he is the perfect Siegmund even apart from the cry, Windgassen isn't a 'cry-out' specialist but very good otherwise, Thomas was more looks than voice, Vickers has done better, Jerusalem is OK in the part, not in the 'cry' though, Domingo nah, Lorenz and King are the two great ones really. Did I forget anyone? Yes the greatest of them all...

[Aetion]

There is another Wagnerian Heldentenor, Tycho Parly, whose name is never referred to, or I am mistaken.

[kmillard]

Domingo is just amazing to me. No, his performance was not the best here, but still. To come in at age 56 after a whole career in the Italian and French repertoire and sing Siegmund like this when most tenors have hung it up. He gives more than an honorable acquittal of himself here.

[aidavdbrake]

Ramón Vinay is simply amazing!! His first Wälse is incredible! Too bad he didn't save a bit for the second one. :-( Still my favorite!

[aidavdbrake]

@aidavdbrake ..

Del Monaco, King and Lorenz are pretty impressive too.

Vickers is more of an Otello for me, more psychology, less mythology.

Domingo and Hofmann are mostly hot to watch. ;)

I'm not a Robert D. Smith or Melchior or Windgassen fan.

Is Jess Thomas what the future Jonas Kaufmann will sound like???

[gaemp]

MDM sounds great and James King too... I think is not a matter of duration

[Biogiant22]

no, is from 1940: this version of Melchior is 30 seconds, my version (1941) is about 22 seconds of Walse Walse...now i'm searching this one!

[ddevicente]

Vinay, Lorenz, King, Melchior the best.

Domingo, Thomas, Smith are ok.

Windgassen, Svanholm, Jerusalem, and Vickers the worst.

Del Monaco gets honorable mention.

[Cynhilde]

I vaguely remember something in TRISTANISSIMO (biography) about the extra-long Wälse-schrei being in response to a critic who said he didn't hold it long enough. Melchior always had a pretty extreme sense of humor.

[Biogiant22]

But i have to say that the recording of Melchior is from 1941 and not from 1940 (i know because i have the cd..).

[Biogiant22]

Melchior!!! Number one!

[babydrane]

Though he took the wrong vowel I like Vinay's very heroic sound and the fact that he took the note at the very top. exciting. MDM is somehow too loud. May be the recording IDK. Melchior is still my all time fave.

[raigekimaru]

James King...omg!!! he sounds like a god!

[modlfr]

Thanks for this comparison !

My best are:

1) Lorenz

2) Vinay

3) King

[90lysander]

Favorites are Melchior, Lorenz, King, Domingo, and, surprisingly, del Monaco! Expected a little more from Vickers - he seems rather underpowered here.

[pjotr669]

James King is The King!!

[bankston48]

1. King and Lorenz

2. Melchoir and MDM

[mazzone1]

What about the great British Tenor Alberto Remedios? A stunning Siegmund

[javierqatar]

Imo the best is Max Lorenz. Among the more recent ones, Jerusalem outstands... Hofmann, Vickers and Vinay are one step (or two) below the rest. The rest are quite good; Melchior extends the "Wälse"'s too much, they sound ugly. Svanholm, Windgassen, King and Domingo are quite impressive.

[jedjr3]

omg... placido domingo... such a fan

[bigus]

melchior>king or del monaco > domingo imo

[alontas]

Lauritz Melchior remains king. James King & Jon Vickers, also very good. As an ignorant, I think the thing is not so much the cry ("Wälse!") but also doing very well the rest of the parlament. In that, I think Melchior has more domain.

[ssballs]

Melchior.Jee,it's like American Idol nite condensed.

[claytonperkins14]

I really like Hoffman, although if Paul Potts had sung Siegmund i'd have to go with him... LOL.

[federic017]

billissimo video con dei tenori super. secondo me Domingo non è un heldentenors, anche se è bravo, ma è poco più di un lirico. un saluto.

[Obaysch]

King, King and then King. I had the good fortune to hear him live in this role in the early 80s. The voice had a lot less metal in a hall, was as warm and gorgeous a sound as could be imagined. The Walse was enormous, overpowering.

[ChefBoyRZinMI]

@Obaysch I agree with you completely. I had the honor to study with King for one year. A great singer and a great man.

[Sinfoniette]

Lorenz and Melchoir... hate Mario del Monaco; sounds too raspy and sounds like the devil singing his theme song. I respect Vickers very much but this recording doesn't have the spirit that Lorenz and Melchoir has.

[Kievest]

Melchior...primal invocation of the gods!

Overwhelming! Enjoyed the post!

Thank you!

[petrof4056]

Melchior!

That's all!

[petrof4056]

basically, 13 tenors, this is the best to the worse (almost)

[3tristan]

For me Jon Vickers (but not in this bad recording!) James King (I heard him in 1965 in Bayreuth with Leonie Rysanek) and Max Lorenz are the best. The cry "Wälse" is too long by Melchior.

[Shogunmiyuchan]

noo, the longer, he better!

[3tristan]

That's nonsense. It's music, not a game.

[Shogunmiyuchan]

well, doesn't this sing-off make it more of a game?

[Matt54e]

Vinay because of the power and baritone colour (he is Siegfried's Dad afer all...), Melchior, King, Vickers, I think the recording flatters Domingo but he is good.

Isn't MDM flat as hell?

[OlgaSofia86]

Seems that, as time went on, that beautiful, free and easy tone with which Melchior and Lorenz approached Wagner completely disappeared. Famous singers of today have remarkable theatrical interpretation and dramatic expression, but not real beautiful singing... oh well...

[BlitzWotan]

Thanks for the nice compilation. All are masters, but Max Lorenz, shows them all what "Musik Drama" is about (Placido, i can never accept

as Sigmund "...Natung Natung so nenn ich dies Pferd") James King is also a convincing Sigi

[TUMuenchen]

I do miss Ludwig Suthaus among this tenors.

Melchior is the best, no doubt.

[noosphere23]

On recording, all are admirable in their own right. On stage, however, Vickers' overwhelmingly powerful interpretation, sensitivity and vocal strength was unequaled.

[SiegfriedJRLi]

For me Melchior is absolutely the No. 1, 2, 3 and ... then Vinay which is a bit better than Vickers imo, Seiffert and Domingo are also in this level.

Windgassen is a poor Siegmund.

[SiegfriedJRLi]

MdM's is not awesome but aweful, simply aweful - as his singing other roles, such as Pollione, Radames and Otello

[nog55]

Melchior,what a show off! But thrilling. Lorenz a distant 2nd.

King,my favourite of the last 40 or 50 years.

The rest, well struggling.

[19BAYREUTH90]

Max Lorenz heiß' ich,

doch SIEGMUND bin!

Bezeug es dies Schwert,

das zaglos ich halte! etc. etc.

Max Lorenz you are the best!!!

[gnativerson]

wow - Domingo and Del Monaco (perhaps partly though "louder" sounding recordings) shine - Melchior's power & breath control to cut through the orchestra seems awesome - fwiw I pick Max Lorenz in this lineup for excitement & beauty of tone

[raigekimaru]

Vinay was sharp but he still gets brownie points for looking like Clark Gable =P

Del Monaco; wow, he almost has too much squillo

King: Probably the best voice in the lot

Hoffman and Jeruselem: also great voices

Domingo: to hear him in his proper repetoire; magnificent

[Chrysothemis]

Melchior: technically impressive, but smug and tacky Lorenz: weird, but solid and deeply involving Svanholm: WAY past his considerable best Vinay: terribly sharp and terribly exciting Windgassen: clever enough to save his voice for later del Monaco - awesome! Vickers: real and gritty King: slightly dull, but what a voice! Thomas: more of a Siegfried, really Hofmann: the most masculine of the lot Jerusalem: again, more of a Siegfried Domingo: BETTER German than in LA this spring Smith: not bad

[ironfuscia]

lorenz, vinay, king and smith are my choices. jerusalem sounds like a really, really lost tamino and i just absolutely despise domingo. i had no idea del monaco could pronounce other languages. hm...

[steakopera]

It'll be interesting to see the score. It probably looks plain, two notes for the voice and trill on strings. I didn't know that singers have liberty to sustain the notes. I like Jon Vicker's best. I think interpretation is more important then dynamic. His Walse was most haunting. Robert Dean Smith, second. Best voice for it, Melchior.

[Boratti]

windgassen is really terrible..

[mdgaultney]

My personal favorite interp is not on this list. It would be James King's from the Solti/Decca Ring. If you haven't heard it...it's quite amazing.

[hiyadroogs]

Some wonderful interpretations here. perhaps Max Lorenz stands out in an interpretive sense, his declamation carries with it great passion. But vocally, for me, Melchior is head & shoulders above the others, his voice flowing superbly with tremendous stamina & sustaining power, although the recording itself is poor, Melchior sounding distant.

[Imogenn]

Very cool video, thank you for making it.

Lots of good voices, but Lorenz is unbeatable for expression. Pity Pertile didn't record it ;)

[VivaRenata]

Beautifully put together - som old favorites and some new revelations. Wished you had found the slightly later recording of Svanholm in this role (with Flagstad as Sieglinde). He is in my opinion the finest Siegmund one can imagine, and the bad sound quality here doesn't give a hint. Anyway, great project and I loved your ending.

[FacePaster]

wow! some great singers there! My favorites (only based on the Walse cry):

King, Del Monaco, Lorenz, and Melchior

[dalifer]

The competition here is very tight, but I would name my No. 1 James King. I have to confess that Robert Dean Smith is a total revelation for me. What a voice! All are great except Windgassen. Maybe I'm missing something with him but I've never felt anything transcendental in his interpretations. They're dull to my ears.

[ubedajils]

Por orquesta, por favor, la de Bayreuth de 1969, el número 8, maravillosa.

Por voz, el nº2, Max Lorenz, qué instrumento!

Y, por supuesto, por esplendorosidad, el nº 1, Melchior.

[egymagyar1111111]

1/MDM; 2King; 3/Thomas;4/Hoffmann; 5/Jerusalem; 6/Dean-Smith could be 1 with a tone similar to MDM and run ups sorry this my ranking some of the greatest names of the Bayreuth zone are do not present the strength in their voice as the true owner of the Schwert, Vinay surprisingly is in this part

[7thHelden]

Nice comparison! Some great singers here. Windgassen, while my favorite in the Forging Song, is not at the top for Wälse! Wälse! And Hofmann, while my favorite Siegmund on video, is not near the top in your selections. MDM sounds quite strong here and is one of my favorites in the Italian rep. But for my top 2 for your comp. I pick:

1. James King

2. Lauritz Melchior

All the best!

[rexeterna]

no doubt hofmann was a great siegmund. however, of the recordings of his siegmund I waded through, his walse cry never matched the intensity of the rest of his performances.

[7thHelden]

Hofmann sings a very nice Lohengrin, also. In the non-classical rep., he sang the best version of Scarborough Fair I have ever heard.

BTW, have you heard Ben Heppner's Wälse's on his solo disc? They may be worth a listen if you have not heard them.

[kmillard]

@7thHelden Agree on Windgassen. Just not in the same class as Melchior, King and Lorenz to me. Lorenz sounded a bit "Fascistic" if that makes any sense but it was STILL a GREAT voice nonetheless.

[mariusfelix]

@kmillard Funny, that you say, he sounds "fascistic", he was homosexual and married to a jewish wife...THE BEST OF ALL WAGNERIAN TENORS OF ALL TIMES, that's what he is! (and what even collegues like R. Kollo admit)

[kmillard]

@mariusfelix Note that I was only commenting on the sound or the way the text was projected to the listener, not on his personal life.

[MrPolitolog]

Thank you!

[dempsey7744]

Thanks for posting this---what great fun to listen to! I'd very gladly see any of these great heldentenors in this opera, were that a possibility. Robert Dean Smith's amazingly focused, beautiful warm voice is my favorite.

[FarfalloneAmoroso]

The first seven are all great, my favourite is Jon Vickers, because he goes beyond just creating a big sound, his is an interpretation.

[tomzoricic]

Vickers my foot. Mdm is unique because of his unique colour of voice and technique

[FarfalloneAmoroso]

I'm a great fan of MDM, but not in the German repertoire.

[eccodandini]

1. lorenz

2. vinay

3. king