Dr Quantum: Wave particle duality and the observer!

[doodoohead39]

this video is misleading... they need to be a little more honest what "observing means"... they are trying way too hard to add oddness and mystery here.

[Master1906]

Epic mind fuck.

[fatboyj182]

can I get a wtf?

[gunchibaiyya]

With single slit, wave and marbles and electrons, all would produce one band of intensity.

With double silt, a marbles produce two bands, waves and electrons produce many bands. Therefore, electron behaves like a wave. Where is the dual nature?

[fizaan95]

@gunchibaiyya Remember that by observing electrons produce only two bands.

[69xFatalityx69]

lines of coke on the chalkboard.

[IdiosoAmericano]

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU­UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU­UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU­UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU­UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!!!

That messed me up

[nickharvey7]

@JohnGaltx64 Could Quantum Physics represent a process of continuous change that we see and feel as the flow of time itself?

The future is always uncertain!

This theory is based on two postulates

1. Is that the quantum wave particle function Ψ represents the forward passage of time ∆E ∆t ≥ h/2π itself

2. Is that Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle ∆×∆p×≥h/4π that is formed by the w- function is the same uncertainty we have with any future event

[JohnGaltx64]

@nickharvey7:

You're already wrong. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle doesn't have anything to do with future events. It has to do with a statistical observation of pair characteristics of a particle, like position and momentum. There is a negative correlation. Time is one of those concepts that is profoundly resistant to a simple definition.

Figure out the arrow of time first, and then we'll talk.

[DrFruedienslip]

@nickharvey7 This presumes that there is any motion picture to time, we live within any perpetual moment where things are always changing, human evolution within any use in technology causes the most physical change within many of the earths physical properties, like any displacement of any of the earths natural elements such as Oil and natural gas, combined with the over population of human beings, being destructive, social physics, what is taking place is contextually pertinent

[DrFruedienslip]

@DrFruedienslip There is certainty that if we do not change the way we all think and how we are being educated then over population will continue to grow exponentially which combined with economic expansion would only worsen the current social crisis, we have reached a climax within technological advancement in a thow away world of consumerism, Poverty is the roots to transgression and terrorism, which questions any and alll ideological political rhetoric. We have no plan

[praveen18ify]

As Niels Bohr said, "Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it." the 2 person have nt understood it

[SuperZekethefreak]

Photons come in an entire class of energy states. When one annihilates, an electron and positron are almost always created. A positron has been proven to be a decaying proton, which would indicate that it is actually smaller positron, muon, pion surrounded by shells of quarks. If this is true, then two slits allows for the bow shock wave made in the quark soup to create a lasting wave. Observer-produced photons are huge by comparison & collapse the weaker shockwave. Classical trumps Quantum!

[Merris14]

@ashaver The video does take a lot of liberties with the interpretation of all the laws and reasoning behind this experiment, but that could be easily explained as well, this is after all a cartoon. It was probably meant for children to get a brief understanding of these many theories.

[ashaver]

@KTK401 Not really. You either misunderstand or are deliberately misrepresenting the Copenhagen interpretation. The CI says that *measurement* causes collapse, measurement here being the apparatus used to measure a quantum system and collapse follows because the measurement apparatus is a many body state causing quantum decoherence. Again, not one thing to do with consciousness.

[KTK401]

@ashaver It has everything to do with consciousness. I didn't misunderstand anything, you did.

The Copenhagen Interpretation argues that the quantum world is not ACTUALIZED until & unless a *measurement* is made.

The above is basically "The Participatory Anthropic Principle". The implications of this interpretation are that the universe is itself self-aware.

Everything to do with consciousness & again, the interpretation of Bohr, Heisenberg, Schrodinger, Bohm & Planck etc.

regards

[ashaver]

@KTK401 But measurement doesn't need a conscious observer. Suppose there was an electron in deep space passing through a material that acted as a double slit experiment, it would reproduce the interference on the other side *whether or not* a conscious observer is there to see it. And if instead that material responded differently for the electron passing through one or the other, the outcome would not be interference. Again, no consciousness is necessary for a quantum measurement. None. at all.

[KTK401]

@ashaver Did you understand what I said at all?!

Obviously not.

The implications of this interpretation are that the universe is itself self-aware. Who believed this? Bohr, Heisenberg, Schridinger, Bohm, Planck and John Adam Wheeler.

regards

[ashaver]

@KTK401 Oh, the *Universe* is self-aware. Well that's an entirely reasonable thing to believe then. While we're at it I'd like to tell you a story about gnomes pushing charges around. Maxwell, Faraday, Helmholtz, and Oersted totally believed this is true. Trust me brah, that's totally how it all works.

[KTK401]

@ashaver Yes of course.

That view was held by: Bohr, Heisenberg, Schrodinger, Planck, Bohm, Pauli, Born, Wheeler to name *just a few* (Although these are basically the "fathers" of Quantum Theory)

The physicists you mentioned held the view that they didn't have a definite answer.

I'm not your "brah"

Trust me, it is "totally how it works"

If you study quantum physics you might understand properly...that's if the experiment in the above video didn't already make it clear....

regards

[ashaver]

@KTK401 I'm a doctoral student in experimental nuclear physics. I *have* studied quantum mechanics. Professionally. Not just reading some internet tripe or quantum new age mysticism. I was merely trying to use a rhetorical device to pull apart your argument. You make grandiose claims, then claim without any citation that these early quantum scientists support your claim (I haven't seen any evidence that they do). Even if they did, modern understanding has advanced beyond that early phase.

[KTK401]

@ashaver All of us who studied/are studying quantum mechanics know at least a little bit about the fathers of our science: Bohr, Schrödinger, Planck, Heisenberg, Bohm, Born, Pauli et al were all deeply religious & most of them were mystics themselves. This is WELL KNOWN, common knowledge in fact. You can look up their writings on this subject if you wish.

It's not "new age"...I haven't made any "grandiose claims", I pointed out something well known.

HOWEVER......continued.... :)

[KTK401]

continued:

The latest theories are *different* interpretations, BUT pretty much conclusively prove the primacy of consciousness without the Copenhagen Interpretation.

It's not "internet tripe" or "new age mysticism". It's the way the universe works.

Send me a link to your candidate page, I will send you a couple of links.

kind regards

[St37One]

@KTK401

That interpretation does not necessarily imply self-awareness. It just implies fundamental physical limits on information transfer. Pi needs to be rounded, and energy levels need to be discrete. The only way to get new information from nothing is to have randomness. If you extract discrete information from a continuous source then you collapse the wave and create new information. Due to spatial constraints information must be rounded/simplified and created/elaborated on over time.

[KTK401]

@St37One Sorry, typo:

It's "Shadows of the Mind", by Prof Roger Penrose.

kind regards,

[St37One]

@KTK401

I don't agree with the idea that quantum mechanics can explain consciousness, because I don't think that there is any real mystery to consciousness in the first place. I also don't understand why people think that one mystery can be partly solved just by connecting it with another mystery.

[KTK401]

@St37One Hi St37

Neither are mysteries really!

Consciousness is not a mystery, as QM explains it perfectly. The best book on this if you are interested in the book I mentioned before ("Shadows of the Mind" by Dr Penrose)

Also ,Quantum Information Theory (which admittedly has a different "interpretation" than Copenhagen) still arrives at the same conclusion. Quantum Mind models etc.

Also, Quantum Physics is not really a "mystery" once one realizes what is actually going on!

kind regards

[St37One]

@KTK401

really?

So exactly what is it about consciousness that QM is alleged to explain?

[g33kqu33n]

@St37One there isn't any real mystery to consciousness? So, please explain it to me.

[St37One]

@g33kqu33n

I would be happy to explain consciousness to you...but

What is there to explain?

I could make a guess, but I would rather just let you formulate your own questions.

[alejandropinedo]

Heisenberg said: To look at the electron, you have to shine light on it; but when you shine light on it that distort where the electron is, so the very fact of observing changes its location. (no hocus pocus)

[User5973]

@alejandropinedo I used to think that it was that simple too. When you bombard the particle with a photon, you alter the position of the particle and therefore you cannot ever be certain of its position. No one is arguing that. What is not understood is why all particles maintain a superposition UNTIL someone tries to observe them. The only way an electron can produce a wave pattern is if it is interfering with itself. In order to do that it must have more than one position or a superposition.

[outofpeanuts]

@alejandropinedo The uncertainty principe certainly explains one reason why there would be a difference w/wo an observer, but it still does not explain why electron goes all particle, rather than acting like a slightly differently interfered wave. Does the energy from the observation somehow conceal energy from the wave in a form that binds the electron to the role of a particle? 'Cause that makes little sense, if any...Or does the observation directly prevent electron from doing the impossible?

[thebrownfox27]

@alejandropinedo shouldn't this cause more of an interference pattern?

[KTK401]

@ashaver Not really. It is the "standard" interpretation of Quantum Physics, as given to it by it's discoverers (Neils Bohr, Werner Heisenberg et al): The Copenhagen Interpretation.....Consciousne­ss Causes Collapse....

regards

[trinikagekavir]

@ashaver lol you know more than the greatest minds in physics who all agree with the measurement problem.

[KTK401]

@ashaver Not really. It is the "standard" interpretation of Quantum Physics, as given to it by it's discoverers (Neils Bohr, Werner Heisenberg et al): The Copenhagen Interpretation.....Consciousne­ss Causes Collapse....

regards

[yoson25]

too far fetched if you ask me. nowadays i doubt everything

[robertogj]

@yoson25 well, nobody's asking you. this is as real as it gets, proven, peer-reviewed, experiment..

[KTK401]

@robertogj Well said roberto. Also, it has been done with three slits!

[KTK401]

@yoson25 It is not "far fetched"

It is the basis of Quantum Mechanics.

regards