Can Catholics become Freemasons? Exposing Conspiracy

[CrackerJackLee]

one can't be a catholic freemason - this is ludicrous... AFM does not accept Jesus Christ as their Lord... He is not even spoken of... like the pharisees, they are part of the police-gov't-judicial block and non-members are profane... Jesus accepted all - even the sinner... one soon abandons their Christianity as they simply don't glorify Jesus and you become absorbed into AFM teachings... masonic ties will soon trump those of your former Christian brothers... one cannot serve two masters...

[JTB1956]

@CrackerJackLee This is absolute hogwash. Shame on you for parroting back the garbage you pick from this and other bogus "sources". Get your sorry hindparts up put of your chair and go TALK TO A MASON. If you really want to know what A.F. & A.M. is about at least make the tiny real effort required to find out for yourself. Don't be a parasite and just regurgitate the slander on youtube

[SeptemberDaggers]

"in order to become an atheist you must have something to to atheiate (to deny)" - Bishop Fulton Sheen. It explains the existance of God. If God does not exist then atheist cease to exist because we cannot deny something or someone if they cease to exist.

[Shadowlooker12]

"Verdicts out it's Conspiracy" I think the person in the vid meant Conspiracy Theory proved wrong, a Conspiracy would mean it actually existed, Theory means unproven just speculated, No conspiracy, when confirmed not to exist. Media would have you beleive Conspiracy=Made up,speculation based off exaggeration or such, that's not what it means.

[ChuDogg]

All Catholic members of Freemasonry have been excommunicated since the 1700s. Catholics are not devil worshipers or involved in evil occult practices! It is forbidden! So for people to even consider or entertain that belief, are idiots. The Church has had a violent and corrupt history, small portions of the clergy that engaged in deplorable and unforgivable practices lately... So it is appreciated that people stop trying to further smear the Catholic Church. Thanks.

[angiemn3]

where does it state that Pope John Paul II allowed secret membership... nowhere!

[liam13coins]

I still do not understand why free masonry is opposed by the Vatican? Masons allow as members men who practice any religon, including Catholicism. The only requirement of a Mason is to aknowldge a universal superior being(God).

Two topics strictly forbidden for discussion within a Masonic Lodge are religon, and politics. Sounds pretty refreshing to me!

[marsoft4647]

@liam13coins

I have already said this clearly. Freemasonry is not opposed to any religion period. The Roman Catholic Church is opposed to Freemasonry however, as I have stated previously.

Now, there may be individual members of Freemasonry who are opposed to the Vatican, but that is their individual business.

[marsoft4647]

@liam13coins

The problem is that the HRC put Freemasonry in with a lot of other organisations when putting together a papal bul. Once a stance has been made, changing that position is hard, expecially when the organisation in question is not a roman catholic one and accepted protestants and people from other religions.

Simply put, the organisation allows non-catholics to join, hence it "Must" be against the catholic church.

[SthrnFrogII]

@liam13coins I'll tell you why no Christian including catholics should become a member of freemasonry. The very first thing you do in becoming an initiate is to deny Christ. Any Christian does or should know that Christ is the light of the world. If you know Christ then you know the Light. On the very first initiation the intitiate is blindfolded and cry's out for light therefore denying he yet has light and thus denying he knows Christ.

[liam13coins]

Nice Canadian accent.

[Hkepfer]

A Roman Catholic cannot join an organization whose mission is expressly against church teaching nor join an organization that requires the keeping of secrets; if secret keeping is extended to confessional, then it confession is at minimum invalid.

[marsoft4647]

@Hkepfer

This is exactly what I was saying. The Roman Catholic church clearly states in cannon law (rightly or wrongly) that membership of Freemasonry is prohibited.

It explicitly includes Freemasonry in the wording. This has never changed, no matter what some people would like to believe.

I am not a Roman Catholic, I am however a Christian and a Freemason. I fail to understand why people try to claim something that clearly is true is not.

[sofakingdrunk66]

@marsoft4647 Repent Now..

[marsoft4647]

@Hkepfer

I don't have to agree with the church law to see that it plainly exists.

[steeler7475787905]

ANTI MASON NUTS! KEEP IT UP BECAUSE OUR MEMBERSHIP IS ON THE RISE BECAUSE OF YALL!!!!!! I HAVE ASKED SOME OF THE NEW PETITIONERS WHAT GOT THEM INTERESTED AND THEY SAID YOU TUBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAKE MORE VIDEOS! YOU ARE HELPING WAY MORE THAN YOU ARE HURTING! THERE IS NO BAD PUBLICITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!! WE LAUGH AT YALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REPOST IF YOU ARE A MASON!!!!!!! MASONS UNITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!

[marsoft4647]

I have to agree. The penalty today, has been re-affirmed by every Pope of the Catholic Church, there was some confusion as stated, but the penalty is still automatic excommunication.

I am a Freemason, and this saddens me, but I cannot deny it is the absolute truth.

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 Automatic excommunication was repealed in the 1960s actually.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

That is a common misconception. The latest update from the vatican is that this is still in place. It was just not applied as harshly.

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 No, it's no misconception. Automatic excommunication was repealed in the 1960s. That's kind of a binary, 'on' or 'off' thing with no in-betweens. Besides, Catholics have been welcome in Freemasonry, as I understand it for, for a very long time. After all, it's not a religion and doesn't pretend to be. Anyway, if Catholics in USA like the idea but don't like the idiots giving them trouble, Knight of Columbus is a good fit as I understand it. Freemasonry under a Catholic banner. :)

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Nope, there was a clear statement issued regarding this, by the latest pope.  He ruled that although there had been a "don't ask don't tell" culture, the ruling still stood.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Catholics have of course been welcome in Freemasonry. However, the blind eye the Catholic church turned to members who joined Freemasonry is at an end according to the Vatican.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

It was during the "liberalisation" of the Catholic Church that the ruiling was put on a back burner and ignored. The latest administration in Rome is a fundamentalist hard line one and has sent a letter to the English branch clearing it up.

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 Actually, the statement made by the present Pope was that in his opinion that there is no compatibility between FM and Catholicism. That was a statement. It was an opinion. It is not a Bull or a revocation of a repeal. It's little Joey R getting jiggy.

English branch? There is no 'English branch' of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. It is a unified organisation.

That is, if you ignore the schisms and disagreements between the Jesuits, the Dominicans, the Franciscans, the... etc.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

A papal bul put it in place so only a papal bul and remove it. Show me the papal bull that replealed it and I will believe you.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Canon 2335 of the 1917 code stated clearly that those Catholics who joined a Masonic organization or some other, similar group that plotted against the Church or against civil authority, incurred excommunication. The Church’s interpretation of Freemasonry’s main purpose was pretty clear: it was an association that plots against Catholicism. Membership in it was, therefore, obviously inconsistent with being a Catholic.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

It would appear from the wording of the former canon 2335 that if perchance a Masonic lodge could have demonstrated that it had no involvement with or interest in conspiring against the Catholic faith, then the law would have permitted Catholics to become members.

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 Excellent research. Fifty years too early for the point that I made, but good research anyway.

Now, show a legitimate document that shows any act or decree by any regular Grand Lodge (not clandestine or irregular) in USA, UK or AU which conspires against Catholicism. There is not one that I am aware of, but I'm willing to wait, watch and listen.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

I am not talking about the Masonic point of view. I am a freemason. However, the Roman Catholic church still prohibits membership under pain of excommunication.

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 Excommunication in respect of FM was renounced in the 1960s. Go look it up. You can't be that lily-livered and resourceless especially in light of the massive amount of 'material' you have spewed quite so quickly. 

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Now it appears you are simply misinformed and unwilling to admit it. There have been varous proclamations regarding various societies, not a single one of them ever mentioned Freemasonry by name, and each and every Pope and papal administration made it clear that Freemasonry was not included

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

You are closing your eyes to truth, the penalty for joining freemasonry for roman catholics was never repealed. If you believe it was, you are mislead.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Oh and I will think you will find that my postings on the new code of cannon law explains your confusion.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

The question arose, therefore, as to whether some Masonic groups could be considered exempt from the canonical prohibition. Occasionally statements were made and letters written on the question by Vatican officials, but they were couched in terms that many found ambiguous, and unfortunately did little to clarify matters.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Far from resolving the confusion, the new Code of Canon Law that was promulgated in 1983 left many Catholics even more perplexed. The corresponding canon in the current law does not even mention Masonry by name. Instead, it uses much broader terminology: anyone who joins an association that plots against the Church is to be punished by a just penalty (c. 1374).

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

This was interpreted by many sincere Catholics as an about-face, and they concluded that under the new law, since many Masonic lodges have no apparent involvement whatsoever in anti-Catholic conspiracies, Catholics are no longer forbidden to join them.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

To this day, one often hears vague comments about “the spirit of Vatican II” somehow having had a hand in reversing the former ban, and that this constitutes evidence that the Church nowadays is more open and ecumenical than it was before.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Do I really need to post more?

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

What these commentators apparently do not know, however, is that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a Declaration on this very subject in 1983, the same year that the new Code of Canon Law was promulgated. This document provides a theological interpretation of canon 1374.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

What It notes that the new code does not expressly mention Freemasonry because of an “editorial criterion,” which led the Code Commission to avoid mentioning by name specific associations “inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.” The Declaration asserts clearly that “the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged,

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.”

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Is that enough to prove my position, or do you want more?

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 You have proved a most excellent skill of cut and paste. You have made statements, albeit cut and paste ones, but have not presented evidence to support the claims in those statements.

If you want to post another ten or twenty or fifty or hundred more of the same ilk, you're welcome, but it does not prove your claim. Those posts only prove your mastery of the skill of Rhetoric.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

What cannon law are you quoting exactly?

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

You say it was repleled, show me the papal bull that repealed it

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Show me the cannon law that explains it.

You have nothing

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

As I said, I am a Freemason, however, I will not pretend that the Roman Catholic Church accepts Freemaonry when it does not. It is very clear that 2335 and those before it are still in full force

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 The most fascinating thing is that you have made posts and then deleted them rather quickly, including the one that you are a Freemason.

You appear to be troubled by verbal diarrhoea.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

I have never deleted a single post in all my years on youtube. I have stated many times that I am a Freemason.

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 Lodge #? Location? Jurisdiction?

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

England, UGLE

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 Lodge #? UGLE is a very large place.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Since the early 18th century, the Vatican has issued several papal bulls banning membership of Catholics from Freemasonry under threat of excommunication. Currently, as reiterated in 1983, Catholics who become Masons are in a state of Grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion, but the penalty of excommunication is not formally declared anymore.

Please note it was reiterated in 1983.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Now you are doing the classic defence, attack the person. Ad Homenim. Congratulations.

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 No personal attack of any kind was made. 

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

You accused me of obfuscation by deleting postings, I have never deleted any posting I have ever made.

This was an attack on my honesty.

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 It appears that YT was at fault and that the posts which appeared in my in box did appear some time later - up to ten minutes later - than when you posted. That was not a personal attack - it was a statement of then current fact.

I still do think you have verbal diarrhoea and will not retract that comment.

You have claimed to be FM and claimed to be within UGLE, but have not mentioned a Lodge number, therefore, I am afraid I need to suggest you may be a troll.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

"you have verbal diarrhoea" that is in itself an Ad Homenim attack, as is calling me a troll.

Now, as to my refusal to publicly name my lodge. I have been inactive on youtube for the best part of a year because I received death threats both online and at my door. These days I am more wary of giving out details that can be used to identify me and my family.

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 Sir, I suggest you are a fraud. I did not call you a troll, but only suggested that you may be one. It is my opinion, I am entitled to it. And, as the sun is now rising here in the Antipodes, I bid you a Good Morning.

PM me your Lodge number some time. I'm sure some of the lovely chaps at Great Queen Street would love to assist your search for knowledge. If your WM isn't able to guide you, you do need some help.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

You are simply unable to admit the truth. Read the Roman Catholic Church Law. Read the Cannon Law. You are the one who needs help as you are in denial of basic facts regarding the roman catholic church and it's laws.

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 OK. Please, re-read. Automatic excommunication was repealed. Doubt, in some Catholic jurisdictions, may exist relating to Communion. That is their peculiar issue.

Please, enjoy the following as part of your quest for knowledge:

* UGLNSW&ACT Past GM Noel Dunn - Catholic.

* 2009 Catholic Bishops Conference held at Sydney Grand Lodge Centre.

* Catholic Education Commission holds its staff training centre at the same Masonic HQ.

Utter condemnation of FM by Catholics, isn't it?

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

You again miss what I was saying. I am not and have never said, catholics condemn Freemasonry. I have said time and time again the directives bulls and canon law coming out of the Vatican have never changed.

Local organisations have and will always enterpret that as they wish.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

There is a big difference between the practice of catholics (and not all catholics are roman catholic) and the stance of the Vatican.

Get over it.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Once again I will post

In 1983 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, issued Quaesitum est, which reiterated the Church's objections to Freemasonry and clarified that those who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. Quaestitum est is currently considered the authoritative interpretation of the Vatican's position on this subject.

Look it up, the stance of the Vatican is clear.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

In the 1985, the Bishops' Committee on Pastoral Research and Practices concluded in its Letter to U.S. Bishops Concerning Masonry that "the principles and basic rituals of Masonry embody a naturalistic religion, active participation in which is incompatible with Christian faith and practice."

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

On September 15, 2000, the Reverend Thomas Anslow, Judicial Vicar of the Los Angeles Archdiocese wrote a letter to David Patterson, Executive Secretary of the Masonic Service Bureau of Los Angeles. In reply to the question "whether a practicing Catholic may join a Masonic Lodge" he said that "at least for Catholics in the United States, I believe the answer is probably yes".

(continued)

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

This letter was later publicly retracted with the explanation that the analysis was faulty. He said that Freemasonry fostered a "supraconfessional humanitarian" conception of God replacing faith and revelation.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

On March 1, 2007, Archbishop Gianfranco Girotti, the regent of the Apostolic Penitentiary made a statement that membership in Masonic organisations "remains forbidden" to Catholics and called on priests who had declared themselves to be Freemasons to be disciplined by their direct superiors. It was in reaction to the declaration that the 85 year old priest Rosario Francesco Esposito‎ had declared himself a Freemason.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

We don't get anywere by denying the truth. The simply truth is that the central authority for the roman catholic church does deem Freemasons to be in a state of grave sin and will not receive holy communion.

Local roman catholic authorities may not take this stance, but if they do not, they are defying the vatican.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Another interesting point to note is many protestant churches are also catholic churches. The Church of England is a Catholic Church, is is simply not a Roman Catholic Church.

[Hkepfer]

@marsoft4647 From a protestant point of view yes, but from a Catholic point of view not quite. & In particular the current CoE is neither catholic nor orthodox.

[marsoft4647]

@Hkepfer

You are confusing Roman Catholic with all catholics. This is a common mistake. If you say that the CoE is not Roman Catholic I will agree with you 100%. However, that is not the definition of Catholic.

[marsoft4647]

@Hkepfer

Orthadox in the terms of the Roman Catholic church or the Greek Orthadox church? Do you see what I am getting at here?

It is all a matter of perspective.

[Hkepfer]

@marsoft4647 I purposely used a lower case O for orthodoxy.

[marsoft4647]

@Hkepfer

Fair doos. I gotta say then, I have a lot of respect for you.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

You continue the Ad Homenim attacks, now you call me a fraud. Does your hypocracy see no end?

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 Your poor grasp of spelling words correctly certainly sees none. :P

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

You are the one needing help, you have called a brother a liar, a fraud and various other insults, I have simply kept to the facts. This speaks for itself.

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 You are quite amusing in your continued use of 'ad hominem', rather quite to the point where the replies reek of a first year law student having hijacked possibly a legit account on here. Meh.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

You continue to make personal attacks and think that the use of it does not apply? Seriously?

[GoldenEars69]

@marsoft4647 Had a quick look at your channel and that statement does not bear out. Thera rea rep[lies from yourself to other parties at intervals of less than one year. A month or two here or there, etc.

No, you're not a troll. Not at all. Far from it. You're quite something else altogether, aren't you? You rather remind me of another chap.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

A month or two here and there on my own channel, well blow me down. You will find exactly 2 postings 3 months ago made on the same day. And a few other postings made the month before that also on the same day.

You said it your self postings a month or two here or there.

I stopped posting on videos, however, I periodically dropped in about once a month to see if things had cooled down.

Why is it exactly you feel such hatred towards me?

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Now why are you refusing to read the information I have given you?

From the 1983 document "Quaesitum est" from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith: The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Can you respond to the 1983 document rather than attacking me please?

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Additionally a statement of fact would have been, I cannot see the postings you made on this page. You did not make a statement of fact, you accused me of deleting them.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

I think you are probably also mistaking my statements about Vatican policy for an attack on Catholics. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I am simply stating that Vatican policy and canon law has never changed on this point. That is not an attack on catholics at all. I know that many catholic churches across the world do not agree 100% with the dictates sent out from Rome.

[marsoft4647]

@GoldenEars69

Show me the cannon law that repeals the prohibition and penalty for being a Freemason.

You simply cannot do it as no such law exists.

[mdlovemovies68]

fuck the free masons. fuck the free world. fuck illuminati

[marsoft4647]

@mdlovemovies68

Fuck the free world?

[proudmason98]

Freemasonry is so secret..........you can find them in the yellow pages - not under secret but under social groups/lodges

[Jerome112]

Thanks for the video, KeithTruth(which is an ironic name) has a tendency to delete any comments questioning the mistruths in his video's.

[SirianKings]

Keith is the product of incest.

[diaverde09]

I want to be a FreeMason.

[rapartist43]

Who cares about catholics being disallowed to join the freemasons? It was THEM who oppressed the freemasonry...

[mannyfit75]

richatheist really make KeithTruth look really un-educated.

[frasernater13]

the "excomunication" was just you could not recive communion.

[hankandbobby]

If you no anything about the Catholic Church you would not say "just could not receive communion". Denying someone communion while maybe not technically excommunication is a very strong action. It is essentially damning you to hell by refusing you one of the blessed sacrements. But thats no big deal to a christian right?

[frasernater13]

actulaly i was raised as a catholic and if being deprived sacremants is so bad how come priests can't get married. sacraments are just away of geting more rewards in heaven like a muslim fighting in the name of alah. it will get you into heaven but not afect you. i recive communion but i wouldn't be botherd if i lost it.

[slattster]

How nice, when I called KT out on a statement in his video, he removed my message and blocked me. It's good to see he doesn't do that to everyone! Good job btw

[hankandbobby]

He does do that to everyone he did it to me too and I was not even disagreeing with him at the time. I just posted a comment on his profile stating that I would like to see him respond to one of the people who had refuted one of his videos.

[hankandbobby]

The only reason he didn't do it to Rich right off the bat is because he is so stupid that he thinks he has won this debate.

[AtheistAtLARGE]

"The stage is now set" does not mean that something happened, it means that something may be able to happen if current mindset or events continue on in their logical progression.

BY NO MEANS does it imply that something actually happened/

Misunderstanding, or deceitfully changing of the intent of the statement ? You be the judge...