I like how Moore seems to imply that the Soviets weren't a threat. There was an actual incident in 1984 where Soviet spies in Washington DC observed a large number of lights on at a department of defense building late into the night for several months. This was due to planning a war game scenario with our NATO allies. The Soviet leadership thought it was a plan for a military attack and seriously considered a nuclear first strike on the United States in response. Some none threat.
@Tronathon242 Indeed. And I remember watching something on Dateline or 20/20 about a radar blip being wrong. It looked like a missile heading towards Russia and ONE guy could have launched a return missile to the USA. But he held off when everyone was screaming at him to give the command. It turned out to be a solar flare or something like that.
@areuter727 I remember that. Norway was launching a weather sattelite up into space and had sent notice to every neighboring country. Russia's notice got lost in its massive government bueraucracy and when they saw the missile being launched on radar, they assumed it was a first strike on them and were a few minutes away from retailiating. Thank goodness someone had a cool head and realized it might be a bad idea to start armageddon like that.
You used to "follow" Michael Moore and now you "wake up"... Who you follow now? The Carpenters? Are you living in a bunker because of Glenn Beck? Don't follow him, ok? He is crazy! I assume you're sharing with us how "fed up" was to see the truth. And your truth is hate (for Michael Moore? Liberals?) People died and people suffered. In order to take it from your chest, you're bring this issue again, and how everything else doesn't matter (because you "wake up") And you're 24?!?
thankyou, I watched Bowling For Columbine this summer and I was appalled by Moore's tricks. Not only that but I didn't find any clear thesis to what he was saying. Basically he rambled something about whites are all racist and afraid of black people and he flounders on from there.
@altha2008 No Charles Heston did not love guns over everything else. Gun owners care just as much as other people about gun violence. They just don't believe banning guns will have an impact on gun violence. I think the only thing that will have an impact on gun violence is to eliminate poverty.
shut the fuck up stupid . Ur a retard completely . Did U take ur medicine ?
But he makes a valid point abt Dedrick Owens , I knew such kids growing up but that has nothing to do with his sarroundings . Because I know several kids who are very violent in behaviour come from very rich families & proper upbringing . When I was 6 years old my class mate busted my head with a piece of brick but his parents were so nice & were twice more rich than mine . Got my point retard.
I think for one thing, you need to study your grammar a little bit more. And two, these are facts, not liberal opinions that Moore tries to make in his videos. This is doing nothing more then debunking a false "documentary".
yes ur right , I really dont remember whats noun , pronoun , adjective , adverb , present participle , past participle etc etc . I do make several mistakes . I'll try study littlebit grammer frm now on .
I'm really sorry for all my previous comments . Take care .
Moore also made other fictional movies in addition to his "documentaries." One of my "favorites" is Canadian Bacon with John Candy. There are a lot of underlying tones and messages that he tries to sneak in there. When people did not succumb to his messages in these types of films he started making "documentaries."
Charlton Heston marched with Martin Luther King. Charlton Heston has done good things too. Michael Moore has done some good things but he should leave Charlton Heston alone. Be open minded.
WTF are you talking about? I bet you're the "boring" one that never had a girlfriend. Or who has had to pay for sex. And now you're taking your fucked up teenage life and dwelling on the shit. Making fun of every woman because not one wanted your ass. Men are SUPPOSE to pay child support if they are the father. Hello? It takes 2. But maybe u didn't know that since u only use your hand.
I'm no virgin, asshole. And women should be taking more responsibility for their love life and not chase after irresponsible jackasses because they're exciting. Welfare and child support wouldn't be an issue if more women did that. There are more good men out there than you give credit for. Remember that before talking about the 'lazy ass men'.
What is with these republicans they don't want to hold men responsible for there actions? Should we let all the men who commit crimes out of jail just because "There are more good men out there than you give credit." Tamara was not getting enough money to live off of.
"Should we let all the men who commit crimes out of jail just because "There are more good men out there than you give credit.""?!? WTF! I didn't say that. I did say that men shouldn't be dumped on as if we're all the same, which was what ChaosThinking was doing.
Well the men who got Tamara pregnant should certainly help out financially and if they can't the state should have given her enough money to live on. A child died because Tamara was not given enough money to live off of.
Maybe you haven't noticed, but Tamara was making more than enough to live off and had other sources of income from the government. All evidence is pointing her lack of parenting skills and drug habit
How the hell do you know Tamara was making enough money to live of of? You don't know how much money Tamara was making. All you know is how much one job paid. How much did the other job pay? How many food stamps was she getting? Don't forget she cad kids to buy for.
No it was only mentioned what one of her jobs paid in the documentary. The documentary did not say the money was tax free, it said the money was almost tax free. There is a big difference between almost tax free and completely tax free. There is also a big difference between what one of her jobs paid and her total gross income. You should not judge until you know all the figures.
Being that she made $1200 per month on one of her jobs gives us a lower end measurement of her total income. And even single people, no dependence making that much take home 80% of their income. So, there's enough evidence to show she was making more than just $1200 per month. And add to the assistance already available, there's no reason why she couldn't make ends meet outside of her own personal behavior.
1) I know we have a lower measure of $1200, but we don't have an upper measure. That is what you have to calculate. How much did her other job pay? I ask the question and you are just talking around it rather than answering it.
2) You say add the assistance she was getting. How can I add that if I don't know how much it is.
3) Single people making $1200 might take home %80. But Tamara had dependents and did not make $1200.
@77tubuck: "There is a big difference between almost tax free and completely tax free." Indeed. Even thinks you don't care have some sort of importance. I mean... Not for you, but you understand that, don't you?
@strattfordcrass Who is Even. I am not sure I follow you. You don't have to agree with everything Michael Moore says. In fact you can disagree with most of what Michael Moore say but you have to agree that Tamara Owens was not getting enough to live off from welfare.
WTF are you talking about? I bet you're the "boring" one that never had a girlfriend. Or who has had to pay for sex. And now you're taking your fucked up teenage life and dwelling on the shit. Making fun of every woman because not one wanted your ass. Men are SUPPOSE to pay child support if they are the father. Hello? It takes 2. But maybe u didn't know that since u only use your hand.
You must be a MALE because no one says shit about men who have many, many children and don't pay for them. Maybe if the lazy ass men in this world would actually get off their asses and pay child support....maybe so many women wouldn't be in this sitution.
Maybe if dumbass women didn't chase after loser men they wouldn't be begging for child support. Here's a word of advice: if you see a bad boy with a dangerous reputation and a responsible but 'boring' guy, pick the responsible one. You know the ones that take care of their woman and kids. Good men are out there, but some women want the confident jerk who knocks them up and leaves with the kids, and those are the ones that will blame all men for their piss poor choices in romance.
I don't believe that one should be able to collect welfare forever. And I also believe that BOTH women AND men should only be able to have 1-2 children if they are receiving assistance from the state. Mandatory birth control would work! The shot...that way we don't have to worry about them not taking a pill. And somebody on here said she has 3 children from 3 different fathers.
And I agree. She had to travel so damn far to work these TWO jobs. She was forced because there are no jobs in MI unless you are in healthcare basically. The welfare program is ridiculous. She was forced to be away from her children ALL DAY because of the distance to her job. How in the hell is that going to help her care for her children?
I think the guy making this video is a member of the KKK. Fuckin nutjob! This happened 10 minutes from my house. Did any of you read that the mom's drug test was negative?? Yes...it was negative. She was NOT doing drugs. You automatically assume that because you see a poor, black woman. You are racist.
..Seems like 80% of this is just Mr. Moore's documentary. First of all, I dont think Mr. Moore is saying that work programs is the only reason why that kid did what he did. even though he doesnt mention all the things that u said. wait, did u really research all this about their family? adam adam adam... sigh low views low interest low budget dude get out of that room.
Well said... Dedrick Owens can't just for nothing shoot an innocent girl. He is old enough to know it's dangerous and that he shouldn't touch a gun. The kid should be punished even if he is six. Not prison, not execution, but more creative and not that harsh. But punishment is necessary!
I love how films like these point out the persuasive techniques used in documentaries. Doesn't mtter if you're for or against Moore but this really is an excellent lesson in media studies.
but THIS film is USING persuasive techniques and being selective. Holy IRONY batman!!!!! Hey, I really tried to watch this video, but I can only have my intelligence insulted so many times. You are nitpicking- the fundamental points moore makes, in ALL his films, are VALID. We have a PROBLEM with violence, we have a PROBLEM with bush using the fear of 9-11. Those are REAL issues.
Well that's why you watch films objectively and form your own personal opinion. All documentaries use some form of persuasive arguement. Take Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' for example.
The format is split into a main context of the film which is his presentation explaining global warming by is intercut with sequences such as the 00' election etc which allows the audience to sympathise with Gore and his cause. Doesn't deter the credibility but just fascinating the techniques used.
what is it with left-wing loonies and their complete inability/unwillingless to hold people accountable for their actions. Like I said, there was no way Tamara couldn't have paid her rent. Watch the video when the narrator mentions everything Mike Moore ignores about Tamara and how she wasn't really struggling to pay rent,etc if she used her income wisely, which she clearly didn't.
Why didn't she ask for help if she was struggling.
Oh, could it be that she blew her money on drugs,etc instead of using what it should have been used on. She didn't want the state to know this so decided to send her brother's house, a known drug dealer. What about Tamara being a Drug dealer herself? You don't want to mention this. It's Tamara, her son,her brother and the Prinicpal's fault what happened, Not Lockheed Martin and/nor the State's for simply helping people get off welfare. Welfare promotes multi-generation slavery.
Well when you move out on your own and get a job you will find $1250 - tax is not enough to live off of, especially when you have three kids. As per her second job, the money probably went to the baby sitter she would have needed to look after the kids when she was working. There is no way Tamara could have afforded to buy drugs. You're forgetting a hole bunch of expenses.
Michael Moore ought to go live in Cuba or some other socialist/communist nation where the state owns you and takes away your God given right to defend your family from criminals and tyrants. He seems to want to be some government bureaucrat's ass slut instead of an American citizen with Constitutional rights.
@numba1stunna4269: "the state owns you" at least they are honest "and takes away your God given right" LOL! Amen, Cuba! Not even God can beat them! "..to defend your family from criminals" This is exactly one of the major problems related on the documentary, like the right to have a constitution not Bible in the tribunal, like Cuba. "...an American citizen with Constitutional rights." Sorry, I didn't know you where a 24 years kid (like this guy). Don't worry, if God can't, you have Harry Porter!
@strattfordcrass "like the right to have a constitution not Bible in the tribunal" There is no such "right". This is how it should be, but the common law keep the "swear to God" and remember that don't believe in the Bible used to be a "crime". Don't make assumptions about me, only if your intent is to make me laugh
Holy crap, this is one hilariously pissweak "documentary", but it really is giving me some great belly laughs. Please, keep up the good work -- I haven't seen anything this funny on You Tube for years!
Our countries welfare system is a joke. It is only there to help a family if they are jobless, as soon as you make ANY money, they cut your foodstamps, cash assistance, daycare assistance, and in most cases medical coverage. Why is it that our country rewards people who have kids and do not work or try to support themselves by giving them money, food, houseing and medical, and yet our country punishes the parents/families that work every day and try to make a living by refusing to help them...
Heston went to the same town where a little girl was murdered. That doesn't matter to you that a little girl was killed. All you care about is trying to discredit a filmaker (Who is more succsessful than you'll ever dream to be) instead of the point of this film or the lives of others.
You need to pull your head out of your ass and take a good look at the problems and what is really going on instead of irrelevant nitpicking of a great film.
SagitarianVeggie: you're just mad because areater727 makes allot of good points in his video. You're also a hypocrite Michael Moore is also more successful than you.
LoL, not one of Moores films has made over 50 million. And sorry if you think its such a great film and has such a great message when its full of LIES and DECEPTION. I dont care how good a message is and how inspiring it is if its ALL A LIE.
You say the $1250 Tamara made a month is almost tax free but anything can be considered almost tax free. If I make $1000 a month and pay $400 a month in tax that is almost tax free because someone is paying $5000 a month in taxes. How much was Tamara paying for the bus fair? Was Tamara paying utilities on her rent? Don't judge until you know all the facts.
Oh sure!... Since the implementation of stricter gun laws in the U.K and Australia their crime rate has increased and passed the U.S.! Rapes,Burglaries,Robbery,car theft are now higher in the UK,and Australia than in the U.S.! A large portion of the burglaries occur when the owners are home..why? the perpetrator's have nothing to fear! When 20/20 asked criminals in prison what they fear most when committing a crime, they said they don't fear the police but victims with guns!
Heston is a white supremacists? You are ignorant! Heston picketed the theater where his movie "El Cid" was showing because they segregated blacks.He picketed segregated restaurants.He accompanied Martin Luther King at the civil rights march on Washington in 63. He Marched with Harry Belafonte,Sidney Portier at this march.He had a love scene with a black woman in 1971's Omega Man.You despise him and just go with the rumor or whats fashionable or cool and ignore History and the truth!
You are a fucking moron. Heston marched with MLK for civil rights. The best way to protect yourself is to have no guns?! WTF is up with that logic? OUTLAWS dont care about the laws, they will get guns ILLEGALLY, and a LAW ABIDING citizen wont be able to get one to equalize the situation. If someone pulls a gun on you, which would you rather have, a gun or a cell phone to call the police? Take your left wing ignorant bullshit out of here and get educated on reality.
If she was married to each one at a certain time. Then no. If she was a whore sleeping around having kids willy nilly with fathers that prolly wanted nothing to do with her kids. While on crack prolly. Then yes.
It does not matter is she was married, marriage is from the Christian faith. The constitution grants equal rights to people regardless of faith. If it is good enough for the dead guys who created it it's good enough for me.
WRONG. Marriage is not only a Christian thing. If it is, then why do Muslims get married? Why do SATANISTS get married sometimes? Why do so many other religions get married? Marriage is a symbol of COMMITMENT, im committed to you, you are committed to me, we are committed to eachother and sharing lifes hardships, including children.
Well maybe she thought she would stay with the father and the father would be able to look after the kids. People have the right to make mistakes they are human. Secondly if we would teach people how to protect them selfs (ie use condom's we would not have half the unplaned pregnancies) .
Ya, a lot of chicks think that, cause they are stupid. A marriage increases those chances by ALOT. You are a fucking moron. AS IF we don't blast our kids with the use of condoms ALREADY. I got taught how to use a condom in 6th grade. And in some places they teach about sex even younger. So don't give us this bullshit that we need to teach people, cause we do. You are going to sit here and tell me that this bitch didn't know what a condom was or how to use it? Get out of town.
So because you were taught about condoms in grade 6 you think everyone else was. I hate to break it to you but you don't know what everyone else was taught. In fact some members of the catholic faith have fought to keep condoms out of the education system. maybe you should get out of town.
Hate to break it to you, but even if they weren't taught it in public school, which most schools HAVE to if they want federal funding, they would have learned it "on the street" or word of mouth or through some other means. Saying that someone wasn't aware of condoms or their use is a completely bogus answer. Because not only did i learn it from the school in 6th grade, I knew about them beforehand from friends talking about them.
Con't: According to your logic if I get drunk and get married to a girl I just met, I have a better chance of staying with that girl than someone who has been dating for 2 years.
Uhuh. Nice monkey wrench you tried to throw in there. Every case is not the same but STATISTICALLY, your odds are better. And dating someone for 2 years is another BS response. Dating is not the same commitment as a marriage, because dating can canceled in 1/2 a second. Dating someone for 2 years is easy, espiecally if you are already banging them. What reason is there to get married? Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?
I not sure what you mean buy monkey wrench but I encourage people to get to know the person for at least a year before they have sex. Everyone has a right to there own definition of marriage. Tamara may have made a mistake but shouldn't we be helping her to get a decent wage rather than blaming her. I don't care if your pro gun or anti gun but leave Tamara out of this.
Why shouldnt she be to blame? She was prolly a crack whore and made poor decisions whos exactly to blame then? If she wasnt out fucking so many different men she wouldnt be in the situation she is in. She wouldnt have had the little bastard and he wouldnt have killed anyone.
Let me get this straight it took you a hole month to think of this response. I'm beginning to wonder if you are on drugs. One month passes and all of a sudden this irrational angry response arises. I don't care if Tamara slept. around it is her body. We don't need permission from you're church to have sex.
LoL, fucking moron. No I was just REALLY bored last night and responded to all the comments as I deleted them. Youtube only delivers like 1/4 of the "responses" to my e-mail, so had I known you responded, I would have earlier.
And you should care if she slept around. Why? Cause she had a bastard child that killed a little girl. If she wasn't fucking around AND/OR being a shitty mom.....this might not have happened! Ya dumb fuck. This is what happens when you whitewash morals.
Well if Tamara was making enough to pay the rent this tragedy might not have happened. If Tamara had not been working such ridiculous long hours this tragedy might not have happened. With all your profanity I'm beginning to wander if you passed grade 3. You don't even know what the word bastard means.
Yes I do, you fuck. Bastard means a child being born out of wedlock. Am I wrong? Was Tamara married? Was the kid born to wed parents?
If she didn't have a 2-3 fucking kids from all different men (making the kids indeed bastards). She wouldn't have to work as hard and she wouldn't have had a child to neglect! She, and some little girl payed the price for HER reckless actions.
And she easily could have made the 300 payment. Did you even watch the fucking video?
1250 dollars a month, nearly tax free? Along with food stamps and government medical care to lower her bills. She clearly squandered her money. Prolly on more drugs.
But it ALL boils down to, and comes back to. If she wasn't fucking tons of different men, and didn't have any kids when she didn't have a husband and couldn't afford it. That little girl would still be alive.
No bastard means something that is irregular. Secondly are you for real. How can income be nearly tax free it ether is or it isn't. If Tamara rent was only $300 a month there was likely utilities on top of that possibly $200 a month. Tamara also had to pay for the bus that probably ran her $100/month. I'm not judging you on you colorful colloquialism. It just makes me wonder.
So, its not a moral issue you stupid piece of shit. Its a practical issue. if she wasn't fucking and having kids, this wouldn't have happened.
And why do you give a fuck if I swear? If you say we cant judge people for sleeping around and that you don't "need permission from my church to have sex" Then you sure as hell cant judge me for profanity. Sorry, just because I swear for dramatic effect and to show emotion, doesn't mean I don't have a developed vocabulary.
Tamara made $1250 a month, that is tax free, with $300 a month for rent, that's 950 left over. Btw, this is just from one job. What about what she made from the other job? Could it be that she blew it on drugs and/or guns on the black market/illegal gun shops ( half of criminals get guns from these underground gun shops ).,etc. Oh, what about the boy's long history of violence and racial hatred from the homes he grew up in. Oh, he's Black and only Whites can be Racist, according to Mike Moore.
No that does not leave 950 left over. You forgot the buss ticket $100, the phone $39, the groceries for 3 kids $600 and the utilities $300. I don't know the exact price but you get the idea. Secondly how do you know Tamara's income was tax free, she could have been paying $400 in taxes? About the boys history of violence well he should not have had access to a gun.
according to are727, it was tax free. As for the "bus ticket" it was taxpayer paid for since it gov't funded program to help people get off welfare. As for $950, I said what was left after rent. Even if she did pay for a bus ticket, which doesn't make sense since the gov't funded the bus ride. There's no reason for her not to be able to pay her rent.Also , why don't you blame the mother, the kid,her crack dealing brother and the prinicipal instead of blaming Dick Clark, society,etc
No according to are727 it was ALMOST tax free. In other words we don't now if the money was tax free. Maybe the bus ticket was paid for but what about the groceries for the three kids plus her other expenses. I'm not blaming Dick Clark I am blaming the welfare system and Lockhead Martin.
77 buck for her grocierries and rent, can you say "Food stamps and rent assistance"? Like I said there was no reason that she couldn't pay her rent and provide food for her kids from her tax-free income from both jobs. Remember the $1250 was from one of her two jobs. What about the second income she brought in? You were already proven wrong when you claim she paid for her bus ticket, why don't you quit before you really dig yourself in a corner.
For all we know she could have only got $25 of food stamps a month. She might not have been eligible for rent assistance. You should not judge until you know all the details and NO I WAS NOT PROVEN WRONG. You assume the bus ticket was paid for but you don't actually know. As per her second job if she was earning $1250 from one job likely the other job only paid $420 and there is tax on top of that. You were already proven wrong about the money being tax-free.
This video is absolutely right. It is the damn blacks that do this. Personally I think it might have something to do with the secret jewish underground too. If only we could elect a leader that could get rid of all the minorities and keep us all safe from the brown terrorists.
Good video. Moore is full of shit, and unfortunately, the uninitiated sometimes buy his stupid, biased bullshit without thinking. If people would just think trough the issues, most of the self-labeled, so-called liberals would see how rediculous their former positions were.
how do you know how much was withheld from her checks for taxes,Do you know how long the waiting list is for state assisted Daycare? Probably not since from the back ground u live in an attic
I'm a mainly left-wing person, but I think Moore is completly blinded through his far-left views, just as someone with far-right views would be. What we as an audience have to remember, is most documentries are bias towards the documentary makers views, beliefs and opinions.
@Jdrizzz Well said and thank you for the honest opening of your political stance. I will go further and say this: ANY form of extremism is dangerous, regardless of what view.
People here been either on Moore's side or the other, but to me we don't know the absolute truth whether this guy did it in order to make look Moore bad by making up crap about his video or it's the truth. either way the I support Moore cause of his video of the parody Farenheit 9/11
If they are "poor black mothers", what are they doing getting pregnant in the first place???? Why can't they become financially stable and THEN have a baby?
I'm pleased to see someone with the backbone and resourcefulness to reveal that manipulative Michael Moore for the liberal-Left con-artist he is.
As for that darling little crackhouse boy, Dedrick Owens, it's my understanding he had already been suspended THREE TIMES(!) prior to the murder, and had also attacked Kayla with a knife.
Like the mainstream media, Michael Moore keeps THIS under the carpet too! No surprise there at all.
I'd like to know your source on the Owen's families background history? you seem to have no problem providing sources for all your other countering evidence (as flimsy as it's been so far).
People have been killing eachother for thousands of years before guns were even invented. People can just as easily murder with a knife. And knifes are silent. But go ahead and blame the gun instead of the person, idiot.
Why does he have a bad behaviour? Because he lives in a culture of violence. You may be right, and Moore is lying and withholding certain information, but the fact is something is deeply wrong in the way your society
At the end of p2 I may not have liked your video but I respected your right to defend your pro gun stance.
But P3 made me very angry! You slate this child (with no proof of source) and smear his mothers name in order to make your point? Nobody does two jobs out of choice but out of necessity. Unless you have a child you could not possibly contemplate the expense and stress. We all have a past, you've speculated about this woman's and her child for your own gain.
You created propaganda out of a highly personal situation you know absolutely nothing about!
I've spent six years in Daycare and worked with many single parents who get support from the government for their Daycare costs. However they still have to count every penny, something I would imagine you have never had to do. Now I'm speculating, just like you were about this women and her child.
I respected your opinion before you tried to smear a child's name for your own purpose. Know I can't see how you could possibly be better than what you accuse Moore off. I call that Hypocrisy.
I would surmise if what you suggest is even remotely true the separation of a child from their parent for such long periods (as having to spend hours travelling from and to work and doing two jobs) would easily cause this bad behaviour. Again I'm speculating just like you. We both have no idea what that family was like, we never met this woman or her son or anyone who knew them. That is were you and I differ from Moore.
If you think 1200$ and food stamps is enough to raise a child and pay rent you are out of your mind. I make 1000$ a month, and I can barely afford to get by. I can't imagine having a kid.
And if you continue reading you notice Clinton meant that there might be a change in gun laws finally, you're just as bad as any other propagandist, if not worse.
To the dude that made this video: You ARE Napolean Dynamite. Are you trying to sound and act just like him, or is that just coincidence. The top button takes the cake.
if thats the way you interpret it fine.. i dont really care. i Take most things of this nature with a grain of salt. statistics and what not are skewed and made to look the way you want it to. there are a number of factors that should be accounted for in things like this and not one should be singled out
just like in the fahrenhype 9/11 trailer where the guy calls Michael Moore a "dork." yeah this bozo's points dont mount to anything. it doenst drastically change anything.
Actually, it does! If you believe Moore's account of the Flint shooting, you'll believe greedy Americans who don't want to pay taxes are the cause of the shooting. If you believe AReuter, you believe that poor lifestyle choices involving drugs and illegitimacy are more responsible for the young man getting hold of a gun.
wow, most of your points are relatively worthless. like little tiny bloopers that dont really hold much merit or change much of the story line. im not a huge michael moore fan, and i think he does contradict himself at times. but this is just frivolous.
And Michael Moore's tiny bloopers hold merit? This guy is disputing EVERYTHING in the movie. Actually I think you are probably a huge Michael Moore fan and are attacking those who challenge him.
taoofmichael I see real facts that are easy to find will not stop your love for Moore or is it your hate for the USA. I bet you think Moore comes from Flint MI, he never did.
I like to watch all sides and read all sides, just to see if there is a legitimate rebuttal to the claims made by Moore or others. You offer no substantive rebuttal to Moore here. Film of Bush in F911 are all I really need to see. Is that not really Bush? Did they dub in another voice? Ann Coulter is your expert authority? Are you denying the Native American genocide? You poor ignorant, shameless, racist hick. You are one of the 20% who still think there were WMDs in Iraq.
AReuter727, u the man. THANK YOU for documenting what most of us suspected immediately after seeing this movie! U asked what I asked immediately after hearing the TaMarla Owens litany....WHERE THE HELL WAS THE KID'S FATHER?????
I know you'll have to drudge hell itself to get this movie before a mainstream public, but this message needs to be heard. Send me a note if I can help out.
alright...im just naming off the first thing in every section that I saw wrong so I got more per part then what I am posting. This one is that you outline how much she was making at her job and how it would have been enough to pay for her rent. There are many other factors that you don't even start to look at. What if she has credit card debt, student debt, or more children all of a sudden that money doesn't seem like that much when you are trying to pay bills...
some ppl cant help where they live I live in Flint, MI I went to buell I remember the day it happened the women whose disciplinary policy was my fourth grade teacher she knows how to discipline there is a reason she was principal I think the whole six degrees of truth is a conspiracy the government trying to keep the truth out of the public eye
I think welfare reform is a good law though they need to chnage a few things like people shouldnt be sent on a bus for an hour and a half and the reason Tamarla was evicted was because she couldnt afford the rent since the food stamps stopped comming as part of welfare reform, so it is a good law that needs to be changed
I think welfare reform is a good law though they need to chnage a few things like people shouldnt be sent on a bus for an hour and a half and the reason Tamarla was evicted was because she couldnt afford the rent since the food stamps stopped comming as part of welfare reform, so it is a good law that needs to be changed
obviously he wouldnt have mentioned kayla in his speech u fucking idiot!!!! but the fact the NRA would come to a town that had a tragedy like that makes them complete cunts. whether or not they even mentioned guns....they are the National Rifle Assosiation....do the math u jackass.
I'm certainly impressed with the documentarian's lack of humanity. We shouldn't feel sorry for Tamarla Owens because she was an addict? We shouldn't be bothered by the death of a SIX YEAR OLD because he had a 'history' He was six for god sake. He said he hated everyone in his school, he's clearly a monster and we're all better off. Absolute nonsense.
You did not pay attention. The six year old who hated everyone murdered another six year old. He clearly had a mental problem that was not addressed adequately by the school. As a result...a more serious incident occurred.
In 1997 a girl called lauren was walikng in a forest and then a she just dissapeared no one ever found her untill 2000 when a yoing girl called Mary found
I like how Moore seems to imply that the Soviets weren't a threat. There was an actual incident in 1984 where Soviet spies in Washington DC observed a large number of lights on at a department of defense building late into the night for several months. This was due to planning a war game scenario with our NATO allies. The Soviet leadership thought it was a plan for a military attack and seriously considered a nuclear first strike on the United States in response. Some none threat.
Tronathon242 8 months ago
@Tronathon242 Indeed. And I remember watching something on Dateline or 20/20 about a radar blip being wrong. It looked like a missile heading towards Russia and ONE guy could have launched a return missile to the USA. But he held off when everyone was screaming at him to give the command. It turned out to be a solar flare or something like that.
areuter727 7 months ago
@areuter727 I remember that. Norway was launching a weather sattelite up into space and had sent notice to every neighboring country. Russia's notice got lost in its massive government bueraucracy and when they saw the missile being launched on radar, they assumed it was a first strike on them and were a few minutes away from retailiating. Thank goodness someone had a cool head and realized it might be a bad idea to start armageddon like that.
Tronathon242 7 months ago
@Tronathon242 Norway doesn't have nukes? Why would Russia think that Norway was launching a Nuke attack?
mixmastermeeks 2 months ago
@mixmastermeeks Maybe they thought it was a US submarine or something. Who the fuck knows?
Tronathon242 2 months ago
Maybe that lady shouldn't have had kids if she couldn't support them.
PotatoGunsRule 8 months ago
I bet that now, Dedrick full on regrets what he did to Kayla . And maybe he is rotting in hell now, or he's in a correctional institution. Who knows?
ABroadwaystar2534 11 months ago
You used to "follow" Michael Moore and now you "wake up"... Who you follow now? The Carpenters? Are you living in a bunker because of Glenn Beck? Don't follow him, ok? He is crazy! I assume you're sharing with us how "fed up" was to see the truth. And your truth is hate (for Michael Moore? Liberals?) People died and people suffered. In order to take it from your chest, you're bring this issue again, and how everything else doesn't matter (because you "wake up") And you're 24?!?
strattfordcrass 1 year ago
thankyou, I watched Bowling For Columbine this summer and I was appalled by Moore's tricks. Not only that but I didn't find any clear thesis to what he was saying. Basically he rambled something about whites are all racist and afraid of black people and he flounders on from there.
jerumwolf 3 years ago
heston another nut case who loves is gun over everything elses
altha2008 3 years ago
@altha2008 No Charles Heston did not love guns over everything else. Gun owners care just as much as other people about gun violence. They just don't believe banning guns will have an impact on gun violence. I think the only thing that will have an impact on gun violence is to eliminate poverty.
77tubuck 1 year ago
@77tubuck not for banding guns to make people who have them be respobsible
altha2008 1 year ago
shut the fuck up stupid . Ur a retard completely . Did U take ur medicine ?
But he makes a valid point abt Dedrick Owens , I knew such kids growing up but that has nothing to do with his sarroundings . Because I know several kids who are very violent in behaviour come from very rich families & proper upbringing . When I was 6 years old my class mate busted my head with a piece of brick but his parents were so nice & were twice more rich than mine . Got my point retard.
2Danimation1 3 years ago
I think for one thing, you need to study your grammar a little bit more. And two, these are facts, not liberal opinions that Moore tries to make in his videos. This is doing nothing more then debunking a false "documentary".
coosecoose14 3 years ago
yes ur right , I really dont remember whats noun , pronoun , adjective , adverb , present participle , past participle etc etc . I do make several mistakes . I'll try study littlebit grammer frm now on .
I'm really sorry for all my previous comments . Take care .
2Danimation1 3 years ago
Moore also made other fictional movies in addition to his "documentaries." One of my "favorites" is Canadian Bacon with John Candy. There are a lot of underlying tones and messages that he tries to sneak in there. When people did not succumb to his messages in these types of films he started making "documentaries."
armyhellion13 3 years ago
Michael Moore has done more for America and the City of Flint than any other individual ever!
RyanMEashoo 3 years ago
Charlton Heston marched with Martin Luther King. Charlton Heston has done good things too. Michael Moore has done some good things but he should leave Charlton Heston alone. Be open minded.
77tubuck 3 years ago 2
WTF are you talking about? I bet you're the "boring" one that never had a girlfriend. Or who has had to pay for sex. And now you're taking your fucked up teenage life and dwelling on the shit. Making fun of every woman because not one wanted your ass. Men are SUPPOSE to pay child support if they are the father. Hello? It takes 2. But maybe u didn't know that since u only use your hand.
ChaosThinking 3 years ago
I'm no virgin, asshole. And women should be taking more responsibility for their love life and not chase after irresponsible jackasses because they're exciting. Welfare and child support wouldn't be an issue if more women did that. There are more good men out there than you give credit for. Remember that before talking about the 'lazy ass men'.
CrossoverManiac 3 years ago
What is with these republicans they don't want to hold men responsible for there actions? Should we let all the men who commit crimes out of jail just because "There are more good men out there than you give credit." Tamara was not getting enough money to live off of.
77tubuck 3 years ago
"Should we let all the men who commit crimes out of jail just because "There are more good men out there than you give credit.""?!? WTF! I didn't say that. I did say that men shouldn't be dumped on as if we're all the same, which was what ChaosThinking was doing.
CrossoverManiac 3 years ago
Well the men who got Tamara pregnant should certainly help out financially and if they can't the state should have given her enough money to live on. A child died because Tamara was not given enough money to live off of.
77tubuck 3 years ago
Maybe you haven't noticed, but Tamara was making more than enough to live off and had other sources of income from the government. All evidence is pointing her lack of parenting skills and drug habit
CrossoverManiac 3 years ago
How the hell do you know Tamara was making enough money to live of of? You don't know how much money Tamara was making. All you know is how much one job paid. How much did the other job pay? How many food stamps was she getting? Don't forget she cad kids to buy for.
77tubuck 3 years ago
It was mentioned in the documentary how much she made. And you can't say her lifestyle had nothing to her child being a psycho.
CrossoverManiac 3 years ago
No it was only mentioned what one of her jobs paid in the documentary. The documentary did not say the money was tax free, it said the money was almost tax free. There is a big difference between almost tax free and completely tax free. There is also a big difference between what one of her jobs paid and her total gross income. You should not judge until you know all the figures.
77tubuck 3 years ago
Being that she made $1200 per month on one of her jobs gives us a lower end measurement of her total income. And even single people, no dependence making that much take home 80% of their income. So, there's enough evidence to show she was making more than just $1200 per month. And add to the assistance already available, there's no reason why she couldn't make ends meet outside of her own personal behavior.
CrossoverManiac 3 years ago
1) I know we have a lower measure of $1200, but we don't have an upper measure. That is what you have to calculate. How much did her other job pay? I ask the question and you are just talking around it rather than answering it.
2) You say add the assistance she was getting. How can I add that if I don't know how much it is.
3) Single people making $1200 might take home %80. But Tamara had dependents and did not make $1200.
77tubuck 3 years ago
@77tubuck: "There is a big difference between almost tax free and completely tax free." Indeed. Even thinks you don't care have some sort of importance. I mean... Not for you, but you understand that, don't you?
strattfordcrass 1 year ago
@strattfordcrass Who is Even. I am not sure I follow you. You don't have to agree with everything Michael Moore says. In fact you can disagree with most of what Michael Moore say but you have to agree that Tamara Owens was not getting enough to live off from welfare.
77tubuck 1 year ago
WTF are you talking about? I bet you're the "boring" one that never had a girlfriend. Or who has had to pay for sex. And now you're taking your fucked up teenage life and dwelling on the shit. Making fun of every woman because not one wanted your ass. Men are SUPPOSE to pay child support if they are the father. Hello? It takes 2. But maybe u didn't know that since u only use your hand.
ChaosThinking 3 years ago
what is this bullshit at 0:17 where hitler is compared with fidel castro?????
jonny9b 3 years ago
You must be a MALE because no one says shit about men who have many, many children and don't pay for them. Maybe if the lazy ass men in this world would actually get off their asses and pay child support....maybe so many women wouldn't be in this sitution.
ChaosThinking 3 years ago
Maybe if dumbass women didn't chase after loser men they wouldn't be begging for child support. Here's a word of advice: if you see a bad boy with a dangerous reputation and a responsible but 'boring' guy, pick the responsible one. You know the ones that take care of their woman and kids. Good men are out there, but some women want the confident jerk who knocks them up and leaves with the kids, and those are the ones that will blame all men for their piss poor choices in romance.
CrossoverManiac 3 years ago
I don't believe that one should be able to collect welfare forever. And I also believe that BOTH women AND men should only be able to have 1-2 children if they are receiving assistance from the state. Mandatory birth control would work! The shot...that way we don't have to worry about them not taking a pill. And somebody on here said she has 3 children from 3 different fathers.
ChaosThinking 3 years ago
And I agree. She had to travel so damn far to work these TWO jobs. She was forced because there are no jobs in MI unless you are in healthcare basically. The welfare program is ridiculous. She was forced to be away from her children ALL DAY because of the distance to her job. How in the hell is that going to help her care for her children?
ChaosThinking 3 years ago
Exactly
77tubuck 3 years ago
I think the guy making this video is a member of the KKK. Fuckin nutjob! This happened 10 minutes from my house. Did any of you read that the mom's drug test was negative?? Yes...it was negative. She was NOT doing drugs. You automatically assume that because you see a poor, black woman. You are racist.
ChaosThinking 3 years ago
..Seems like 80% of this is just Mr. Moore's documentary. First of all, I dont think Mr. Moore is saying that work programs is the only reason why that kid did what he did. even though he doesnt mention all the things that u said. wait, did u really research all this about their family? adam adam adam... sigh low views low interest low budget dude get out of that room.
o0MeTube0o 3 years ago
Well said... Dedrick Owens can't just for nothing shoot an innocent girl. He is old enough to know it's dangerous and that he shouldn't touch a gun. The kid should be punished even if he is six. Not prison, not execution, but more creative and not that harsh. But punishment is necessary!
ChromatopelmaDude 3 years ago
I love how films like these point out the persuasive techniques used in documentaries. Doesn't mtter if you're for or against Moore but this really is an excellent lesson in media studies.
inkovic 3 years ago
but THIS film is USING persuasive techniques and being selective. Holy IRONY batman!!!!! Hey, I really tried to watch this video, but I can only have my intelligence insulted so many times. You are nitpicking- the fundamental points moore makes, in ALL his films, are VALID. We have a PROBLEM with violence, we have a PROBLEM with bush using the fear of 9-11. Those are REAL issues.
atvfreelife 3 years ago
Well that's why you watch films objectively and form your own personal opinion. All documentaries use some form of persuasive arguement. Take Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' for example.
The format is split into a main context of the film which is his presentation explaining global warming by is intercut with sequences such as the 00' election etc which allows the audience to sympathise with Gore and his cause. Doesn't deter the credibility but just fascinating the techniques used.
inkovic 3 years ago
what is it with left-wing loonies and their complete inability/unwillingless to hold people accountable for their actions. Like I said, there was no way Tamara couldn't have paid her rent. Watch the video when the narrator mentions everything Mike Moore ignores about Tamara and how she wasn't really struggling to pay rent,etc if she used her income wisely, which she clearly didn't.
Why didn't she ask for help if she was struggling.
kevyster 3 years ago
Oh, could it be that she blew her money on drugs,etc instead of using what it should have been used on. She didn't want the state to know this so decided to send her brother's house, a known drug dealer. What about Tamara being a Drug dealer herself? You don't want to mention this. It's Tamara, her son,her brother and the Prinicpal's fault what happened, Not Lockheed Martin and/nor the State's for simply helping people get off welfare. Welfare promotes multi-generation slavery.
kevyster 3 years ago
Well when you move out on your own and get a job you will find $1250 - tax is not enough to live off of, especially when you have three kids. As per her second job, the money probably went to the baby sitter she would have needed to look after the kids when she was working. There is no way Tamara could have afforded to buy drugs. You're forgetting a hole bunch of expenses.
77tubuck 3 years ago 2
Michael Moore ought to go live in Cuba or some other socialist/communist nation where the state owns you and takes away your God given right to defend your family from criminals and tyrants. He seems to want to be some government bureaucrat's ass slut instead of an American citizen with Constitutional rights.
numba1stunna4269 3 years ago 2
@numba1stunna4269: "the state owns you" at least they are honest "and takes away your God given right" LOL! Amen, Cuba! Not even God can beat them! "..to defend your family from criminals" This is exactly one of the major problems related on the documentary, like the right to have a constitution not Bible in the tribunal, like Cuba. "...an American citizen with Constitutional rights." Sorry, I didn't know you where a 24 years kid (like this guy). Don't worry, if God can't, you have Harry Porter!
strattfordcrass 1 year ago
@strattfordcrass "like the right to have a constitution not Bible in the tribunal" There is no such "right". This is how it should be, but the common law keep the "swear to God" and remember that don't believe in the Bible used to be a "crime". Don't make assumptions about me, only if your intent is to make me laugh
strattfordcrass 1 year ago
Excellent work, my friend. Don't take my word for it, but look at the negative responses from the drooling moonbats!
Facts just don't mean anything when you assault their "god".
Moore is a fraud, exposed many times over, and you have done a great job illustrating it. No wonder his acolytes are furious!
LOL!
orwellsspectre 3 years ago 2
Holy crap, this is one hilariously pissweak "documentary", but it really is giving me some great belly laughs. Please, keep up the good work -- I haven't seen anything this funny on You Tube for years!
"Michael Moore is totally wrong, dewd"
:D
kitmm 3 years ago
Our countries welfare system is a joke. It is only there to help a family if they are jobless, as soon as you make ANY money, they cut your foodstamps, cash assistance, daycare assistance, and in most cases medical coverage. Why is it that our country rewards people who have kids and do not work or try to support themselves by giving them money, food, houseing and medical, and yet our country punishes the parents/families that work every day and try to make a living by refusing to help them...
mommy3102 3 years ago 3
because the country is ran by Republicans. They're anti-woman, anti-family, anti-poor, pro-polishin the rich's knob, and anti-freedom.
heinj98 3 years ago
There you go with that knob polishing fetish again!
Any word on your therapy being covered?
orwellsspectre 3 years ago
Look here ya dumb dipshit idiotic "filmaker."
Heston went to the same town where a little girl was murdered. That doesn't matter to you that a little girl was killed. All you care about is trying to discredit a filmaker (Who is more succsessful than you'll ever dream to be) instead of the point of this film or the lives of others.
You need to pull your head out of your ass and take a good look at the problems and what is really going on instead of irrelevant nitpicking of a great film.
SagitarianVeggie 3 years ago
SagitarianVeggie: you're just mad because areater727 makes allot of good points in his video. You're also a hypocrite Michael Moore is also more successful than you.
77tubuck 3 years ago 2
LoL, not one of Moores films has made over 50 million. And sorry if you think its such a great film and has such a great message when its full of LIES and DECEPTION. I dont care how good a message is and how inspiring it is if its ALL A LIE.
girzwald3 3 years ago
You say the $1250 Tamara made a month is almost tax free but anything can be considered almost tax free. If I make $1000 a month and pay $400 a month in tax that is almost tax free because someone is paying $5000 a month in taxes. How much was Tamara paying for the bus fair? Was Tamara paying utilities on her rent? Don't judge until you know all the facts.
77tubuck 3 years ago
Heston is horrible! White supremacist pig.
I must be a racist! Hey! i hate white supremacists.
Fucking bastards. Blacks are good people too, you dickheads. What the fuck?!
Best way to protect yourself from potential violence is to have no guns.
Stupid white supremacist fuckers
noonesflower 3 years ago
Oh sure!... Since the implementation of stricter gun laws in the U.K and Australia their crime rate has increased and passed the U.S.! Rapes,Burglaries,Robbery,car theft are now higher in the UK,and Australia than in the U.S.! A large portion of the burglaries occur when the owners are home..why? the perpetrator's have nothing to fear! When 20/20 asked criminals in prison what they fear most when committing a crime, they said they don't fear the police but victims with guns!
quaheedus 3 years ago
Heston is a white supremacists? You are ignorant! Heston picketed the theater where his movie "El Cid" was showing because they segregated blacks.He picketed segregated restaurants.He accompanied Martin Luther King at the civil rights march on Washington in 63. He Marched with Harry Belafonte,Sidney Portier at this march.He had a love scene with a black woman in 1971's Omega Man.You despise him and just go with the rumor or whats fashionable or cool and ignore History and the truth!
quaheedus 3 years ago
You are a fucking moron. Heston marched with MLK for civil rights. The best way to protect yourself is to have no guns?! WTF is up with that logic? OUTLAWS dont care about the laws, they will get guns ILLEGALLY, and a LAW ABIDING citizen wont be able to get one to equalize the situation. If someone pulls a gun on you, which would you rather have, a gun or a cell phone to call the police? Take your left wing ignorant bullshit out of here and get educated on reality.
girzwald3 3 years ago
She had three children with three different men...what the hell does that have to do with anything? Does that make her a bad person?
ratko84mus 4 years ago
A good mother?
crazy87jim 4 years ago
If she was married to each one at a certain time. Then no. If she was a whore sleeping around having kids willy nilly with fathers that prolly wanted nothing to do with her kids. While on crack prolly. Then yes.
girzwald3 4 years ago
It does not matter is she was married, marriage is from the Christian faith. The constitution grants equal rights to people regardless of faith. If it is good enough for the dead guys who created it it's good enough for me.
77tubuck 3 years ago
WRONG. Marriage is not only a Christian thing. If it is, then why do Muslims get married? Why do SATANISTS get married sometimes? Why do so many other religions get married? Marriage is a symbol of COMMITMENT, im committed to you, you are committed to me, we are committed to eachother and sharing lifes hardships, including children.
girzwald3 3 years ago
Well Mariage comes from religion then. It does not matter the constitution still gives people the right to there own religion.
77tubuck 3 years ago
"She had three children with three different men...what the hell does that have to do with anything? Does that make her a bad person?"
If she brings kids into the world she cannot properly provide for; then she is an irresponsible fool.
Responsible taxpayers are getting fed up with her kind.
FischerFan 3 years ago
Well maybe she thought she would stay with the father and the father would be able to look after the kids. People have the right to make mistakes they are human. Secondly if we would teach people how to protect them selfs (ie use condom's we would not have half the unplaned pregnancies) .
77tubuck 3 years ago
Ya, a lot of chicks think that, cause they are stupid. A marriage increases those chances by ALOT. You are a fucking moron. AS IF we don't blast our kids with the use of condoms ALREADY. I got taught how to use a condom in 6th grade. And in some places they teach about sex even younger. So don't give us this bullshit that we need to teach people, cause we do. You are going to sit here and tell me that this bitch didn't know what a condom was or how to use it? Get out of town.
girzwald3 3 years ago 2
So because you were taught about condoms in grade 6 you think everyone else was. I hate to break it to you but you don't know what everyone else was taught. In fact some members of the catholic faith have fought to keep condoms out of the education system. maybe you should get out of town.
77tubuck 3 years ago
Hate to break it to you, but even if they weren't taught it in public school, which most schools HAVE to if they want federal funding, they would have learned it "on the street" or word of mouth or through some other means. Saying that someone wasn't aware of condoms or their use is a completely bogus answer. Because not only did i learn it from the school in 6th grade, I knew about them beforehand from friends talking about them.
girzwald3 3 years ago
Don't trust what you here on the street about safe sex go to a clinic.
77tubuck 3 years ago
Con't: According to your logic if I get drunk and get married to a girl I just met, I have a better chance of staying with that girl than someone who has been dating for 2 years.
77tubuck 3 years ago
Uhuh. Nice monkey wrench you tried to throw in there. Every case is not the same but STATISTICALLY, your odds are better. And dating someone for 2 years is another BS response. Dating is not the same commitment as a marriage, because dating can canceled in 1/2 a second. Dating someone for 2 years is easy, espiecally if you are already banging them. What reason is there to get married? Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?
girzwald3 3 years ago
I not sure what you mean buy monkey wrench but I encourage people to get to know the person for at least a year before they have sex. Everyone has a right to there own definition of marriage. Tamara may have made a mistake but shouldn't we be helping her to get a decent wage rather than blaming her. I don't care if your pro gun or anti gun but leave Tamara out of this.
77tubuck 3 years ago
Why shouldnt she be to blame? She was prolly a crack whore and made poor decisions whos exactly to blame then? If she wasnt out fucking so many different men she wouldnt be in the situation she is in. She wouldnt have had the little bastard and he wouldnt have killed anyone.
girzwald3 3 years ago
Let me get this straight it took you a hole month to think of this response. I'm beginning to wonder if you are on drugs. One month passes and all of a sudden this irrational angry response arises. I don't care if Tamara slept. around it is her body. We don't need permission from you're church to have sex.
77tubuck 3 years ago
LoL, fucking moron. No I was just REALLY bored last night and responded to all the comments as I deleted them. Youtube only delivers like 1/4 of the "responses" to my e-mail, so had I known you responded, I would have earlier.
And you should care if she slept around. Why? Cause she had a bastard child that killed a little girl. If she wasn't fucking around AND/OR being a shitty mom.....this might not have happened! Ya dumb fuck. This is what happens when you whitewash morals.
girzwald3 3 years ago
Well if Tamara was making enough to pay the rent this tragedy might not have happened. If Tamara had not been working such ridiculous long hours this tragedy might not have happened. With all your profanity I'm beginning to wander if you passed grade 3. You don't even know what the word bastard means.
77tubuck 3 years ago
Yes I do, you fuck. Bastard means a child being born out of wedlock. Am I wrong? Was Tamara married? Was the kid born to wed parents?
If she didn't have a 2-3 fucking kids from all different men (making the kids indeed bastards). She wouldn't have to work as hard and she wouldn't have had a child to neglect! She, and some little girl payed the price for HER reckless actions.
girzwald3 3 years ago
And she easily could have made the 300 payment. Did you even watch the fucking video?
1250 dollars a month, nearly tax free? Along with food stamps and government medical care to lower her bills. She clearly squandered her money. Prolly on more drugs.
But it ALL boils down to, and comes back to. If she wasn't fucking tons of different men, and didn't have any kids when she didn't have a husband and couldn't afford it. That little girl would still be alive.
girzwald3 3 years ago
No bastard means something that is irregular. Secondly are you for real. How can income be nearly tax free it ether is or it isn't. If Tamara rent was only $300 a month there was likely utilities on top of that possibly $200 a month. Tamara also had to pay for the bus that probably ran her $100/month. I'm not judging you on you colorful colloquialism. It just makes me wonder.
77tubuck 3 years ago
So, its not a moral issue you stupid piece of shit. Its a practical issue. if she wasn't fucking and having kids, this wouldn't have happened.
And why do you give a fuck if I swear? If you say we cant judge people for sleeping around and that you don't "need permission from my church to have sex" Then you sure as hell cant judge me for profanity. Sorry, just because I swear for dramatic effect and to show emotion, doesn't mean I don't have a developed vocabulary.
girzwald3 3 years ago
Tamara made $1250 a month, that is tax free, with $300 a month for rent, that's 950 left over. Btw, this is just from one job. What about what she made from the other job? Could it be that she blew it on drugs and/or guns on the black market/illegal gun shops ( half of criminals get guns from these underground gun shops ).,etc. Oh, what about the boy's long history of violence and racial hatred from the homes he grew up in. Oh, he's Black and only Whites can be Racist, according to Mike Moore.
kevyster 3 years ago
No that does not leave 950 left over. You forgot the buss ticket $100, the phone $39, the groceries for 3 kids $600 and the utilities $300. I don't know the exact price but you get the idea. Secondly how do you know Tamara's income was tax free, she could have been paying $400 in taxes? About the boys history of violence well he should not have had access to a gun.
77tubuck 3 years ago
according to are727, it was tax free. As for the "bus ticket" it was taxpayer paid for since it gov't funded program to help people get off welfare. As for $950, I said what was left after rent. Even if she did pay for a bus ticket, which doesn't make sense since the gov't funded the bus ride. There's no reason for her not to be able to pay her rent.Also , why don't you blame the mother, the kid,her crack dealing brother and the prinicipal instead of blaming Dick Clark, society,etc
kevyster 3 years ago
No according to are727 it was ALMOST tax free. In other words we don't now if the money was tax free. Maybe the bus ticket was paid for but what about the groceries for the three kids plus her other expenses. I'm not blaming Dick Clark I am blaming the welfare system and Lockhead Martin.
77tubuck 3 years ago
77 buck for her grocierries and rent, can you say "Food stamps and rent assistance"? Like I said there was no reason that she couldn't pay her rent and provide food for her kids from her tax-free income from both jobs. Remember the $1250 was from one of her two jobs. What about the second income she brought in? You were already proven wrong when you claim she paid for her bus ticket, why don't you quit before you really dig yourself in a corner.
kevyster 3 years ago
For all we know she could have only got $25 of food stamps a month. She might not have been eligible for rent assistance. You should not judge until you know all the details and NO I WAS NOT PROVEN WRONG. You assume the bus ticket was paid for but you don't actually know. As per her second job if she was earning $1250 from one job likely the other job only paid $420 and there is tax on top of that. You were already proven wrong about the money being tax-free.
77tubuck 3 years ago
This video is absolutely right. It is the damn blacks that do this. Personally I think it might have something to do with the secret jewish underground too. If only we could elect a leader that could get rid of all the minorities and keep us all safe from the brown terrorists.
sonoflasalle 4 years ago
Good video. Moore is full of shit, and unfortunately, the uninitiated sometimes buy his stupid, biased bullshit without thinking. If people would just think trough the issues, most of the self-labeled, so-called liberals would see how rediculous their former positions were.
JJCarbon 4 years ago 2
how do you know how much was withheld from her checks for taxes,Do you know how long the waiting list is for state assisted Daycare? Probably not since from the back ground u live in an attic
stacie1420 4 years ago
I'm a mainly left-wing person, but I think Moore is completly blinded through his far-left views, just as someone with far-right views would be. What we as an audience have to remember, is most documentries are bias towards the documentary makers views, beliefs and opinions.
Jdrizzz 4 years ago 3
@Jdrizzz Well said and thank you for the honest opening of your political stance. I will go further and say this: ANY form of extremism is dangerous, regardless of what view.
PotatoGunsRule 8 months ago
People here been either on Moore's side or the other, but to me we don't know the absolute truth whether this guy did it in order to make look Moore bad by making up crap about his video or it's the truth. either way the I support Moore cause of his video of the parody Farenheit 9/11
chenrenche 4 years ago
I'll bet that he only used this one website as his source. *sigh*
Pathetic.
[as well as that other documentary]
ThisOneRocks 4 years ago
Now this is the biggest steaming piece of bullshit I've read.
ThisOneRocks 4 years ago
dude your splitting hairs man..lol.
zappyhod 4 years ago
If they are "poor black mothers", what are they doing getting pregnant in the first place???? Why can't they become financially stable and THEN have a baby?
CaptDouchebag 4 years ago 3
ur racist
shelbythefish 4 years ago
Why am I racist for asking a question?
CaptDouchebag 4 years ago 2
Really? Explain how that could be racist. They are POOR. If they can't afford a decent lifestyle for their children they should be having children.
emang1678 4 years ago
who asked u??? mind your own business, this was 3 weeks ago..get over it
shelbythefish 4 years ago
Becoming pregnant does not only mean they purposely became that way. There is the issue of rape to look at here. Use your common sense.
ThisOneRocks 4 years ago
@CaptDouchebag: Because they know you will do it for them
strattfordcrass 1 year ago
what a inequality society you have, how can there be so many rich people and at the same time single women that have to work 76 hours a week???
jennyfromparis2 4 years ago
I'm pleased to see someone with the backbone and resourcefulness to reveal that manipulative Michael Moore for the liberal-Left con-artist he is.
As for that darling little crackhouse boy, Dedrick Owens, it's my understanding he had already been suspended THREE TIMES(!) prior to the murder, and had also attacked Kayla with a knife.
Like the mainstream media, Michael Moore keeps THIS under the carpet too! No surprise there at all.
FischerFan 4 years ago 3
Man oh man take a reality check moron.
Before i retired and moved all my family to Canada, There was sabre rattle big time in the ranks of those who OWN YOUR PATHETIC Ass.
Currently theres over 10.000 deserters in canada from the states, ASK THEM WHY ?
cycimian 4 years ago
huh?
4rdsuks 4 years ago
I'd like to know your source on the Owen's families background history? you seem to have no problem providing sources for all your other countering evidence (as flimsy as it's been so far).
chillself 4 years ago
this is stupid! i can't take this!!
micheal moore is great and this guy here sucks! he is ugly and a big moron!
AyuChan90 4 years ago
Moore's work is a joke, he is a socialist
4rdsuks 4 years ago
LOL @ the goofy redneck!!
bananafiish777 4 years ago
fuck u hick. u dont know anything u will do anything to keep ur guns in witch the first place is why people died
Echioka027 4 years ago
People have been killing eachother for thousands of years before guns were even invented. People can just as easily murder with a knife. And knifes are silent. But go ahead and blame the gun instead of the person, idiot.
girzwald3 4 years ago
Why does he have a bad behaviour? Because he lives in a culture of violence. You may be right, and Moore is lying and withholding certain information, but the fact is something is deeply wrong in the way your society
blackstarknight 4 years ago
At the end of p2 I may not have liked your video but I respected your right to defend your pro gun stance.
But P3 made me very angry! You slate this child (with no proof of source) and smear his mothers name in order to make your point? Nobody does two jobs out of choice but out of necessity. Unless you have a child you could not possibly contemplate the expense and stress. We all have a past, you've speculated about this woman's and her child for your own gain.
Shane72 4 years ago
I also agree!!!
zeroneogeo 4 years ago
Cont'd(1)
You created propaganda out of a highly personal situation you know absolutely nothing about!
I've spent six years in Daycare and worked with many single parents who get support from the government for their Daycare costs. However they still have to count every penny, something I would imagine you have never had to do. Now I'm speculating, just like you were about this women and her child.
Shane72 4 years ago
Cont'd(3)
I respected your opinion before you tried to smear a child's name for your own purpose. Know I can't see how you could possibly be better than what you accuse Moore off. I call that Hypocrisy.
Shane72 4 years ago
Cont'd(2)
I would surmise if what you suggest is even remotely true the separation of a child from their parent for such long periods (as having to spend hours travelling from and to work and doing two jobs) would easily cause this bad behaviour. Again I'm speculating just like you. We both have no idea what that family was like, we never met this woman or her son or anyone who knew them. That is were you and I differ from Moore.
Shane72 4 years ago
If you think 1200$ and food stamps is enough to raise a child and pay rent you are out of your mind. I make 1000$ a month, and I can barely afford to get by. I can't imagine having a kid.
groovieknave 4 years ago 2
of course. he doesn't mention utilities and such.
ThisOneRocks 4 years ago
And if you continue reading you notice Clinton meant that there might be a change in gun laws finally, you're just as bad as any other propagandist, if not worse.
PixiesFanatic 4 years ago
Good video! It is funny to see all the people who swallowed Moore's garbage squirm when told the TRUTH!
wearemisled1 4 years ago
Everyone look at this hicks video on his second page,he goes to wall mart and crawls in the ball cage.
FRY3 4 years ago
To the dude that made this video: You ARE Napolean Dynamite. Are you trying to sound and act just like him, or is that just coincidence. The top button takes the cake.
Gelbuda 4 years ago
About the crackhouse and school behavior and stuff. Where did you site that information from? Funny how you don't mention that.
TheNewYorkFloridian 4 years ago
he mentions it at the beginning of the movie!
femmefatale1990 4 years ago
Michael Moore is a most unpleasant person.
Rarfink 4 years ago
The brother's house was a CRACK HOUSE? Moore really knows how to put a spin on things...
OliviaHadassah 4 years ago
if thats the way you interpret it fine.. i dont really care. i Take most things of this nature with a grain of salt. statistics and what not are skewed and made to look the way you want it to. there are a number of factors that should be accounted for in things like this and not one should be singled out
mizfit99 4 years ago
You are really giving yourself away now, not only as a manipulator of facts but as a racist hick.
sleepypoodle 4 years ago
It's kinda funny how those who cannot dispute facts using reason have to make personal attacks on the fact-teller.
mstock626 4 years ago
just like in the fahrenhype 9/11 trailer where the guy calls Michael Moore a "dork." yeah this bozo's points dont mount to anything. it doenst drastically change anything.
mizfit99 4 years ago
Actually, it does! If you believe Moore's account of the Flint shooting, you'll believe greedy Americans who don't want to pay taxes are the cause of the shooting. If you believe AReuter, you believe that poor lifestyle choices involving drugs and illegitimacy are more responsible for the young man getting hold of a gun.
mstock626 4 years ago
wow, most of your points are relatively worthless. like little tiny bloopers that dont really hold much merit or change much of the story line. im not a huge michael moore fan, and i think he does contradict himself at times. but this is just frivolous.
mizfit99 4 years ago
And Michael Moore's tiny bloopers hold merit? This guy is disputing EVERYTHING in the movie. Actually I think you are probably a huge Michael Moore fan and are attacking those who challenge him.
mstock626 4 years ago
Wtf is up with your voice?
BaybiiB33 4 years ago
taoofmichael I see real facts that are easy to find will not stop your love for Moore or is it your hate for the USA. I bet you think Moore comes from Flint MI, he never did.
LawOfHonor 4 years ago
I like to watch all sides and read all sides, just to see if there is a legitimate rebuttal to the claims made by Moore or others. You offer no substantive rebuttal to Moore here. Film of Bush in F911 are all I really need to see. Is that not really Bush? Did they dub in another voice? Ann Coulter is your expert authority? Are you denying the Native American genocide? You poor ignorant, shameless, racist hick. You are one of the 20% who still think there were WMDs in Iraq.
taoofmichael 4 years ago
So when you assume that he's saying the welfare to
work program caused kala's death, that makes it
true, huh? The idiot that made this makes so many
assumptions about what moore's saying it's sickening.
bigge525 4 years ago
And were did you get those facts about Tamarla and Dedrick, they all seem pretty fake to me!!!
Chubby666333 4 years ago
I'm sure you know all about TaMarla Owens and her kid and can therefore call areuter a liar.
Think about it: would a gun owner who was NOT a Crack Distributor keep a gun out where a kid could grab it?
mstock626 4 years ago
Well at least Micheal Moore is a better film maker!!!
Chubby666333 4 years ago
you seem pretty racist too
JMcCaughey09 4 years ago
your points suck...
JMcCaughey09 4 years ago
You point out unimportant mistakes made in the movie. You should give him credit for addressing a topic that none of us think about
Domagog 4 years ago
arguements are not great mate, keep trying
aussiebrizzybloke 4 years ago
You live in a log cabin.And your information is diluted..Stop watching Gabby Hayes movies and going to KKK meetings.
DeformedUglyMan 4 years ago
WTF???! Dedrick owens also stabbed 2 kids as well as shooting 1!!! why wasnt he locked up straight away?
Myview246 4 years ago
AReuter727, u the man. THANK YOU for documenting what most of us suspected immediately after seeing this movie! U asked what I asked immediately after hearing the TaMarla Owens litany....WHERE THE HELL WAS THE KID'S FATHER?????
I know you'll have to drudge hell itself to get this movie before a mainstream public, but this message needs to be heard. Send me a note if I can help out.
mstock626 4 years ago
alright...im just naming off the first thing in every section that I saw wrong so I got more per part then what I am posting. This one is that you outline how much she was making at her job and how it would have been enough to pay for her rent. There are many other factors that you don't even start to look at. What if she has credit card debt, student debt, or more children all of a sudden that money doesn't seem like that much when you are trying to pay bills...
halfro41 4 years ago
what bills? the debt to the local drug dealer, did you not see the rest of the video?
eradicate23 4 years ago
some ppl cant help where they live I live in Flint, MI I went to buell I remember the day it happened the women whose disciplinary policy was my fourth grade teacher she knows how to discipline there is a reason she was principal I think the whole six degrees of truth is a conspiracy the government trying to keep the truth out of the public eye
robertdickinson1980 4 years ago
Moore is such a retard!
gnivri2 4 years ago 2
I think welfare reform is a good law though they need to chnage a few things like people shouldnt be sent on a bus for an hour and a half and the reason Tamarla was evicted was because she couldnt afford the rent since the food stamps stopped comming as part of welfare reform, so it is a good law that needs to be changed
GhettoBoy080293 4 years ago
I think welfare reform is a good law though they need to chnage a few things like people shouldnt be sent on a bus for an hour and a half and the reason Tamarla was evicted was because she couldnt afford the rent since the food stamps stopped comming as part of welfare reform, so it is a good law that needs to be changed
GhettoBoy080293 4 years ago
obviously he wouldnt have mentioned kayla in his speech u fucking idiot!!!! but the fact the NRA would come to a town that had a tragedy like that makes them complete cunts. whether or not they even mentioned guns....they are the National Rifle Assosiation....do the math u jackass.
daveythevan 5 years ago
I'm certainly impressed with the documentarian's lack of humanity. We shouldn't feel sorry for Tamarla Owens because she was an addict? We shouldn't be bothered by the death of a SIX YEAR OLD because he had a 'history' He was six for god sake. He said he hated everyone in his school, he's clearly a monster and we're all better off. Absolute nonsense.
exsuscito 5 years ago
You did not pay attention. The six year old who hated everyone murdered another six year old. He clearly had a mental problem that was not addressed adequately by the school. As a result...a more serious incident occurred.
areuter727 4 years ago
great to see somebody who really BREAKS DOWN THE FACTS!
TIMF233 5 years ago
Yeah. "a get out the vote Republican rally" made it sound soo much more comforting.
scj16 5 years ago
In 1997 a girl called lauren was walikng in a forest and then a she just dissapeared no one ever found her untill 2000 when a yoing girl called Mary found