What had to stop is the imigration of legs and arms amputating Islamomonsters to the civilized world.World is slowely awakening about what Islam is,child molesting,pedofile mutilating cult of war criminals,killers,woman abusers,stoners of girls and inforcers of child marrige.
Death to Islam R.I.P all victimes of this subhuman deviated perverted bestiale cult.
i noo u fuckin jewss saw my brother walkin up to u n juss likee little u let him pull tht yellow sign out of ur hands n u juss lett himm i was ther n ther was the same amount of jews as arabs no excuses all u do is talk i didnt c one of u walk over to us butt c us come up to u bigg nose PALESTINE FOREVERRR :)
i noo u fuckin jewss saw my brother walkin up to u n juss likee little bitches u let him pull tht yellow sign out of ur hands n u juss lett himm like pussy i was ther n ther was the same amount of jews as arabs no excuses bitches all u do is talk i didnt c one of u walk over to us butt c us come up to u bigg nose fuckersss PALESTINE FOREVERRR :)
Iluvfighters let me tell you something I was there I am neither jewish or Arab and both sides were pretty intense and there were many people there on both sides. I do however find it somewhat amusing the level of maturity you present with your foul arguement and your incredible vanity. Peace be upon you :)
there was about 20,000 palestinians no lie and there was about 10 jews wat does that tell u the jews no they wrong palestinianforeverkid fuck all the jews hatin we kno were gud and they bad so they can fuck off and go to hell wahyat allah there was litereally about 10 jews and they were all ugly and all us arabs look gud
I'm sorry that you have to hear this on a website for the first time in your life...but YOU ARE BRAINWASHED. your family and friends have brainwashed you. its such a shame what they teach these kids. btw if you hate Israel so much...get off the computer...it was invented in Israel :)
ur a fucking dumbasss the computer was invented by israel u dumb bitch it was invented by a jew and none is 2 say if he was zionist or not and second thing u dirty slut is none is more brainwashed then the isralei settlers palestnians have not kicked them out of thier home and bombed their houses or shot at their mothers unlike palestnians who have seen tht all first hand
Actaully sir, if you use a computer that was made in this century...your using products of Israel. im not really gonna go into the list of things you prob use from Israel bc its just so many. and your facts are wrong about everything else. oh btw...nice language, did your terrorist palestinain sand people teach you those words?.
Actually sir i dont import my computers from damn israel o lmfaoo they wouldnt be facts if they were wrong so technically u just agreed everything i said was right here let me prove u wrong and post up some articles o ty hahah ur not worth the dirt of the palestnians ya were the terroists were the onez tht occupiede the land shot civialans kicked them out of their homes same b.s. over and over again always claming urselfs as the victims u guys cant even got ur story right first u say god
-When was the country of israel founded & by whom before 1948 ?? -What were its borders before 1948 ?? -What were it major cities before 1948 ?? -Name at least one israelian leader before 1948. -What was the origin of the people who lived in JERUSALIM in the past ??What is the name of israeli currency before 1948 ??-What's the exchange rate between israelian currency & any other currency before 1948 ??
aka Why should i do someones homework for them and give a history lesson over youtube. See I will debate with people who are worth debated with. As in people that do their research and understand both sides. Since you obviously are biased and really do not know much in this subject, there's no point in arguing. If I was giving a tour in Israel i would answer those questions. Actaully try answering those for so called "palestine" you won't be able to answer any of them
ITS NOT HW OR HISTORY LESSONS ITS BACKING UP WHAT YOU SAY. YUP CLEARLY IM THE ONE THT IS NOT WORTH DEBATING CAUSE YOU HAVE ASKED ME ? AND I HAVE NOT ANSWERED THEM . NO MY FRIEND U R THE BIAST ONE THT ONLY SEES WHAT THE MEDIA FEEDS YOU. ANSWER THEM FOR YOUR TERRORIST COUNTRY
SLAUGHTERING PALESTINIANS YEAR AFTER YEAR AT THE RATIO OF "8 vs 1" AND THEN CLAIMING YOU ARE THE VICTIM OF TERRORISM AND ANTI SEMITISM IS SIMPLY "LAUGHABLE" BY ANY RATIONAL, LOGIC, RELIGION OR CREED. NO EXCUSE* IS CREDIBLE FOR THESE LEVELS OF TERRORISM. NOT EVEN THE JEWISH HOLY TORAH ALLOWS KILLING BEYOND AN EYE FOR AN EYE!
Sourse of ratio: BT Selem Israeli Human Rights Group & Amnesty International
SLAUGHTERING PALESTINIANS YEAR AFTER YEAR AT THE RATIO OF "8 vs 1" AND THEN CLAIMING YOU ARE THE VICTIM OF TERRORISM AND ANTI SEMITISM IS SIMPLY "LAUGHABLE" BY ANY RATIONAL, LOGIC, RELIGION OR CREED. NO EXCUSE* IS CREDIBLE FOR THESE LEVELS OF TERRORISM. NOT EVEN THE JEWISH HOLY TORAH ALLOWS KILLING BEYOND AN EYE FOR AN EYE!
Sourse of ratio: BT Selem Israeli Human Rights Group & Amnesty International
PLEASE MEMORIZE & HELP POST THIS COMMENT ON MANY OTHER ISRAEL RELATED VIDEOS!!!
fuck jews im arabic and palestinian and muslim i think i know if theyre the ones startin shot or not and i was there and there were jews startin shit with my parents and all u fuckin jews need to go to hell u fuckin killers
Jews never stole "Palestine." first of all it was the "palestine mandate (british)" from 1553 till 1922 that whole area (middle east) was ruled by the turkish..(ottoman empire) Jews lived there for over 3700 years. The british promised all that land to the Jews...but in 1922 winston churchill gave 80% of the land to arabs. THEN the U.N divided the last 20% into an area for Jews and Arabs. but nope...those asshole greedy arabs didnt like how Jews had one sixth of 1 percent of the middle east.
There is no name like West Bank . The land name is Judea and Samaria! This is a Jewish land . So people please don't listen leberals who tel you West Bank. Liberals can call theirs own houses even Bank of America if they want. This land belong to us! Leberals stop tel us what to do we are fed up of you! ISRAEL FOREVER!
A roadside bomb ripped through an armored van in the Gaza Strip Wednesday, killing three Americans traveling through the area in a U.S. diplomatic convoy.
Yasser Arafat and his new prime minister, Ahmed Qurei, condemned the attack immediately. At the scene, however, there was a rather different reaction. Crowds gathered rather quickly; they began stoning a group of American investigators who arrived.
Joel u a bitch look at that kid at the end were pigs???? The kid in the black stood up to allll of them you Israel are scared asssss burnt cookies that Hitler forgot to bake I'm hanini I know how you Jews hideAnd act white ya'll can't fight there's. A reason why 10 cops are on the Palestinian side and 1 on the demons side hahahahaaa scared asses
Since 2003, an estimated 10,000 non-Jewish immigrants from various African countries have illegally entered Israel . Some 600 refugees from the Darfur region of Sudan have been granted refugee status. Another 2,000 refugees from the conflict between Eritrea and Ethiopia have have been granted temporary resident status on humanitarian grounds.
Throughout this year, Egyptian police have shot dead 20 African asylum seekers attempting to enter Israel.
yes most of the real world hates islam and are waiting for the so called peaceful Muslims to speak up and stop the killing of any non Muslims, but this will not happen.
Did your mom or allah teach you to cuss and to have a toilet mouth.
Gee Elizabeth, you say in your description they got a little angry? I mean people who support the kililng of 1300 people in 3 weeks and support an illegal occupation of a country that was born through terrorism, and continues its terorirsm to this day, deserve to get spit on. Don't play victim here, the Zionist movement is a cancer to this planet.
this is no rhetoric on HATE,..but a question arises as to WHY MOSSAD HAD BOMB LADEN TRUCKS PARKED IN DOWNTOWN MANHATTAN BEFORE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER...BLOW UP...both peoples must sit down at the peace table...and end your ISSUES concerning RELIGION...be AWARE YOU ARE ALL HALF-BROTHERS THROUGH ABRAHAM and HAGAR your MATRIARCH MOTHER THROUGH "ISHMAEL" and "SARAI" ..ISAACS mother...so you are spilling your BROTHERS BLOOD...KING-FISHER
Cubans trying to keep the peace between Pro-Israelis & Pro-Palestinians in Downtown Miami. Something else for "Miami-Dade" Cubans to think about. No, Elian has left the building...
14/01/2009: Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann, The president of the UN General Assembly has condemned Israel's killings of Palestinians in its Gaza offensive as "genocide"
You know, Zionist Jews posing as outrageous right wingers, nasty Arabs, extremists Muslims and even Nazis, to spread hate and misinformation between Muslims and Christians and in order generate sympathy for themselves and support for Israel, are 'ten a penny' on youtube.
hmm then to make that even more precise pro palestine=pro terrorism. But no I will not be stupid enough to say that. Why? Because I happen to be pro israel and pro palestine. But i am anti HAMAS and HEZBOLLAH so next time you make associations like that dear friend. Be a little more cautious.You dont know the entire story apparently so it would be of great benefit to you to get unbiased info and do your own research.
its not israels fault it kicked some serious Arab butt. Dont be hating. I think this is more than about land or religious war fare. The arab nations simply hate Israel. So instead of targetting those who terrorize and who endanger their own people (IN USING THEM AS SHIELDS) why do you place the blame on Israel. As if they dont have casualties as well.
i'm not pro hamas, if that's what you're thinking. any israeli civilians deaths are just as devastating. i don't see it as religious warfare, i see it as a group of greedy people kicking people from their homes (serious human rights violation), and i don't mean that all israelis are that way. and maybe the arab nations do hate israel, but i don't support them either. i think they're all doing something wrong.
I blame the UN for the horrible way they distributed the land. In the 1948 partition act. That land used to belong to England. So any claim to that land is not really legitimate.
sigh. i wish there was an easy way to solve the world's problems. i think the israelis are not interested in a two-state solution (they want all the land) and what would the palestinians have gotten out of two states? they lived on all the land before 1948, so taking a part of their land away from them would not have made sense, unless they were given compensation
Burst your little bubble. Your not defending truth you are defending your own warped version of what you believe truth should be. How disappointing that people are so delusional.
murderers are murderers no matter who they are. that goes for all of hamas, israel, and any person who is living in this world. but some people still don't understand that (not talking about you)
so tell me oh great one since apparently you are so enlightened, what book am i missing out on. Its funny how you assume I am jewish by the way. Your so wise. I just love it.
although im still wonderin when i said u r but......
anyways, u ppl no the truth yet u lie to ur selves every mornin sayin wer the 1s who killed u for the land....ect
and u say that we still dont no the issue. THAT, shows that u dont no the issue
and u no y? cuz we R the issue, wer the 1s who have to live with this crap and u just watch it, so dont be goin around sayin we dont understand cuz we uderstand more than ull ever get to
hmm and what in the world would you do stand there and watch it as just it approaches you? Do you realize how idiotic your making yourself sound. Thats just idiotic. So Hamas surrounding itself with civilians is the perfect excuse then because they arent hiding? Who are you kidding? your obviously ignorant or uneducated. Im not against palestine but I dont understand your hatred for israel. My question is why?
Yes. Olmert has been a lame duck ever since the war in Lebanon, so he has to make lame political maneuvers to get support from the Right.
This construction is meaningless, because Givat Zeev is part of the major settlement blocs (3% of WB) that are adjacent to the "Green Line", and it is obvious to everyone that it would be part of Israel under any final agreement (after land swap)
This is not an expansion of the settlement, only growth within the territory of the existing bloc
u should work for Faux News, you only provide half truths to justify civilian massacre by IDF, like yesterday when Sean Hannity kept bemoaning the number of rockets fired which have resulted in 0 civilian casualty, but never even mentioned the 500+ civilians butchered by IDF.
I provided an article that was published on the PLO's own Negotiations Affairs Department!!
If you're siding with the Palestinian narrative of events at Camp David (since there are no transcripts), and yet claim that what I said are falsehoods (even though it is backed by evidence and supported by the Palestinians themselves), then you just believe whatever it is convenient for you to believe. Where's the disinformation?
"It is fair to fault Arafat for lacking the courage to strike a deal at Taba; for being a maddening, vacillating, passive negotiator; for condoning violence that unseated the best Israeli peace partner the Palestinians could have had. But the common view in the West that Arafat flatly rejected a reasonable peace deal, and that it is thus pointless to attempt a strategy of negotiation, is a myth".
That part about "condoning violence that unseated the best Israeli peace partner the Palestinians could have had"
If not for that we probably could have resolved much (if not all) of the conflict. Instead we got a decade of violence that resulted in countless victims on both sides, and no resolution in sight.
no body condones or wants to condones violence,one has to be rational & tempered in these matters, other than me debating you here how many times do u see a genuine debate on MSM in USA? every criticism of Israel is wrongly characterized as antisemitism, & if it is a Jewish person, he or she is labeled a Self hating Jew,!??!?!
> every criticism of Israel is wrongly characterized as antisemitism, & if it is a Jewish person, he or she is labeled a Self hating Jew,!??!?!
I agree (even though criticism from someone like "fuzzywzhe" here can be defined as such). But on the other hand, in most other countries throughout the world (Europe and ME) you have the exact opposite. You only hear the "Palestinian side" (which apparently is now the side of Hamas) and rarely does the Israeli side has a voice there.
I now watched the Bob Simon interview, and I agree with most of what he said, only I'm a bit more optimistic.
When Ariel Sharon was running for reelection in 2006 (before his stroke) his platform was that of "Hitkansut" ("coming together"- a code word for removing settlements from the WB). After the "Hitnatkut" ("disengagement" from Gaza).
Sharon wanted to show that if Israel withdraws it will get security, and if it is attacked from that area it will respond with devastating force.
No Israeli is willing to accept the idea that once Israel withdraws from some area there would be no one responsible to guarantee the security of its citizens.
This is why it was in Sharon's best interest to not initiate any attacks on Gaza, and to respond with devastating force (against militants) if attacks took place.
Under this platform, of removing settlements from the WB, Sharon was projected to receive 40 Mandates in the Knesset
That means over 75% of Knesset for Center-Left parties. If you listen again to Bob Simon's interview, he mentions 2 important facts: the Amona removal
This (under Olmert, who replaced Sharon) was before the elections. Yet his party ploc (Kadima+Gil) received 36 Mandates in the Knesset. So there was a vast consensus in Israel to remove settlements (not all, but at least some).
The second issue is Hamas - Simon clearly says that Hamas wants to provoke Israel, as it does. Not tit for tat.
When Hizbollah abducted the 2 soldiers, you can notice that in the first few days of the war in Lebanon Olmert said that "winning this war will help the Hitnatkut" (meaning: if we show that we can respond to an attack from an area from which we withdrew (Lebanon), the Israeli public will be in favor of more withdrawals). So Israel has no reason to provoke attacks, its government wants to show that SECURITY is possible.
Hizbollah and Hamas want conflict to continue, because they gain from it.
Regardless, Israel was and is trying to avoid civilian casualties. The unfortunate results in Lebanon were a major blow to all moderates in the region. The military campaign in Lebanon was not convincingly successful, and the UN SC resolution 1701, which called for disbanding all militant groups in Lebanon has strengthened Hizbollah 3 fold.
This is why it is important for Israel to end the Gaza offensive in a way that prevents Israeli civilians from being under the constant threat of rockets.
The loss of life in Gaza is devastating, but it is entirely the fault of Hamas. Hamas is booby trapping schools, residential buildings and Mosques, uses civilians as human shields, while hiding its terrorists in bunkers.
If it turns successful (by military or political means) that would strengthen the moderates.
While all those who protest against ISRAEL and not against HAMAS, are contributing to the cycle of violence to continue. You cannot equate a provocative terror org. to a moderate state
In the first day of bombings in Afghanistan, following the 9/11 terror attacks some 3000 Afghan civilians were killed. It is devastating, but it is not even comparable.
The majority of people killed in Gaza are Hamas (at least 200 of 280 identified are known by name! as Hamas members). Israel is constantly dropping leaflets, and making thousands of phone calls to let the population know where it is striking Hamas.
The world community must support the moderates on both sides, and unequivocally condemn Hamas for its provocations and use of civilians.
Once Israelis see that there is support for its SECURITY, it would strengthen the majority that wants an end to the conflict.
The Palestinians need to have a leadership that is willing to be sovereign over ALL its territory, and not allow any terror groups use it to launch attacks on Israel.
Now, obviously you cannot remove all settlers (400,000+ people), but the vast majority of settlers live in settlement blocks adjacent to the border with Israel (probably 3% of WB territory). The rest should be removed. (The exact border, with swaps here and there, should be decided on through negotiations). Jerusalem must be divided and the refugees who wish so must return to Palestine.
..and other things like secure passage from Gaza to WB and so on, but these are trivial compared to the major issues.
What's important is for the PA to have a strong (and recognized by Palestinians and the global community) leadership that can rule THE WHOLE territory, and have a desire to live in peace with Israel.
what is Israel doing right now to alleviate the situation, are there any stops being put to settlements ?? what about the Highway only meant for settlers ?? isn't that apartheid like tactics??
most of ur comments are well intentioned but what about Israeli govt not doing any thing?
Well, now the situation is complicated, since all eyes are on Gaza. If the conflict in Gaza ends with Hamas winning, or that rockets keep flying into Israel, it will be very difficult to mobilize public opinion in Israel to do much against the settlers.
> what about the Highway only meant for settlers ?? isn't that apartheid like tactics??
Fact is, Israel has a responsibility to protect ALL its citizens. There were many cases of sniper shootings on settlers, so Israel had to prevent that.
Now, I'm not happy with this system, but you have to put it in perspective: before 1988 there were no checkpoints in the WB. Anyone (Israelis and Palestinians) could move in and out of Israel without interference.
But there was also no Palestinian authority to govern Palestinians. It was simply "occupied territories" by Israel, and no one who was willing and able to negotiate with Israel and rule there.
why Olmert did not push for peace while the truce was in place! he even suggested something like that in an interview where he pointed to dismantling Settlements !
how about a one state solution! since the Likud & right is not going to let the peace process go ahead!
The main diff between Likud, Labor, and now Kadima is how flexible they are on security issues. But they are all willing to negotiate.
If there was some effective force, Pal. or intl' that could guarantee Israel's security, it wouldn't be a problem to reach an agreement with any Israeli leadership. But as you can see from the UN force in Lebanon, which is utterly ineffective, Israelis are very skeptical about this. Maybe, if the Gaza offensive is successful they'd be more forthcoming..
But as long as Israelis see so much international hostility (as you can see in this youtube video) toward what they perceive as their RIGHT to defend their country from attacks, how do you expect the next elections to go?
And would forcing Israel into a corner by a deal that doesn't really guarantee its citizens' security lead to any good? It would only lead to more deaths on both side. But at least Hamas will be stronger. They feed on hate. Ask "fuzzywzhe", he knows all about it.
Lieberman would negotiate as well and supports a 2-state solution (but with population swaps), but he doesn't have the electorate support to come to power (about 10).
It is only the National-Religious party (pro-settlement) that would probably never agree to negotiations. But now they have somewhere between 3-5 projected seats.
Even among settlers in the WB, about 40% were willing to relocate for a compensation (at least in 2006, before the Lebanon war). So the fanatics are few but very loud.
> How lovely to see your again. You always run away defeated
> after spreading hate and lies, but always come back to spew
> more hate.
I'm not playing some stupid game.
We're at the point the truth will come out either way now. Brownshirts had their day too, just as you did. About the only place in the world with a media so corrupt and lazy to support Israel is the United States, and US insolvency will end that soon enough.
Well, one thing is you need to show a clear vision of a possibility to reach a resolution that would guarantee SECURITY for Israelis.
The success of Op. Defensive Shield in 2002 and construction of the barrier in the WB, for ex., gave Sharon the leverage to withdraw from Gaza. Because Israelis saw that security is significantly improving, and believed Sharon is capable of making Israel secure. I'm not saying that military action is the only way, but it is the only thing that proved effective
The only true issue that bothers the majority of Israelis is SECURITY. If you tackle this wisely, you'll see that the fanatics are powerless. There is still going to be a struggle with them, but not something that Israel cannot overcome.
I believe the best guarantee of security is having a Pal. gov that is sovereign over all its territory, recognized by its people and the world community, and not hostile to Israel - ie. fights provocations against Israel from its territory.
meaning who at least admit the fact that the settlements are illegal! & other basic facts about the situation on ground !! every other Israeli supporter i see on TV is fervently irrational & illogical, only sane discussion u can get is on programs like Charlie Rose & Warren Olney's radio show!
same on Palestinian side if Israel keeps bombing indiscriminately, it only creates more problem, as far as Fatah goes they are bunch of corrupt goons, that is why hamas won the election to begin with, so Israel at the end of the day has to deal with Hamas & unless the Jewish populace in USA tempers their stance, it does not matter what happens inside Israel since only a strong US president can deliver peace!
If you truly think that Israel is indiscriminately bombing Gaza then you're deeply misinformed. If you knew the extent to which soldiers and commanders are trained in combat tactics and methods to avoid civilian casualties, given the very complex reality of urban combat in a densely populated area filled with terrorists, you'd think otherwise.
With that said, in a war there will always be mistakes. A few days ago an Israeli tank killed 3 Israeli soldiers. You think that's intentional?
u do have to admit that Israeli forces have presently & in the past killed a large number of Civilians, at the end of the day your People have to admit the right of existence of a state meant for Palestinians, & there will have to be a negotiation with Hamas no matter what! what amazes me is that people who went through Holocaust would treat a whole population in a way which if not Apartheid; is pretty darn close to it!?
> u do have to admit that Israeli forces have presently & in the past killed a large number of Civilians
I do admit that. That is the reality of war. But it is unfair to single out Israel. Especially when the % of civilians/combatants killed by Israel are MUCH LOWER than those by, say, NATO in Kosovo, The US in Afghan, Iraq, Viet, Korea. Russia in Chechnya. conflicts in Africa, or any conflict within the Arab world (Lebanon, Jordan, Yemen, Iraq-Iran, etc. etc.)
> so Israel at the end of the day has to deal with Hamas
Israel can talk to Hamas, al-Qeada, Ahmadinajad, Hitler, whoever. The question is, is the agreement they come up with is worth the paper it is signed on? or is that only going to lead to further wars?
Hamas doesn't recognize Israel, and fundamentally wants its destruction. Unless it becomes more moderate, and moves away from its fundamentalist stances, there's nothing to talk about.
A) Hamas in the past & present given signals that they are willing to live with Israel, but there are certain conditions for that to happen. You should watch Rami Khouri & see what he says to make a better assessment!
B) you have to be more serious than trying to conflate AQ with Hamas, there is absolutely no reason for injecting AQ in this discussion.
C) Ahmedinejad has called for one state solution, which may be the only way left if Israel does not accepts PAL state!
> you have to be more serious than trying to conflate AQ with Hamas, there is absolutely no reason for injecting AQ in this discussion.
I would have to disagree here. If you read anything about bin Laden's biography, you'd see that he was deeply inspired by the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood when they were guests at his father's home in SA. Hamas is a branch of the MB in Palestine. It would be nice to ignore that, just because of Hamas' popularity, but it would be an illusion to think otherwise.
i am sorry but the discussion about AQ is irrelevant here, A) AQ has done more harm to Muslims around the world than any one else, Physically & other wise!& B) the similarity pointed out by u abt MB & AQ ends right there, MB & Hamas are politico-religious parties who derive their NATIONALISM from religion, where as AQ claims to be a pan-Islamic vanguard & falsely so!
& i can have a whole debate about the origins & the ideology of AQ with u, but that will be separate discussion!
you see this is the reason why Israel defenders have been able to divert the attention of the world, by conflating AQ & Hamas, now u tell me how has it benefited the Palestinians by being equated to a Wahabist/Salafist organization whose origins & ideology comes from SA, & was a major benefactor of US support in 80s against SU?? were as SA,EG,JO equally despise Hamas, bcz of their own internal dynamics!
You asked how can Jews act like that after the Holocaust. Israel made it clear at the conclusion of the Six Day war that it is willing to return territories conquered for peace and has no desire to rule over the population. And it was rejected by the Arab League.
But Jews also learned that you can't sign a peace treaty with anyone, because they saw the result of "peace in our time", so you can see why they are suspicious of Hamas. For peace you need
to build mutual trust. "giving signals" is nice, but not enough for any sane Israeli to compromise the security of its children. Certainly not given all they've seen coming out of Hamas' "death industry"
look the fact is, that u do not know how it is to live under occupation, neither do i know how does it feel to be under threat from home made rockets, so u have to meet halfway!
& for good reason You should watch what Rami Khouri has to say & u will understand what i mean!!
But this is not really about occupation or settlements anymore, is it?
Israel ended occupation in Gaza, and removed all settlements there. But the rockets never stopped. I watched Khouri. If Hamas were to renounce terror and recognize Israel's right to exist, then we can get somewhere. If you accept the concept that Islamic movements fall into 3 categories: political, hybrid, and terror then Hamas is clearly hybrid. This is unacceptable. It has to show good will & stop inciting/conducting terror
well wasn't Irgon just that, wasn't there blood shed of Palestinians ?? & the occupation means the Prison like situation of Gaza, Israel should open Rafah, & should let Gazans travel to WB & then u can say that there is no more occupation!
Gazans are couped up with no Trade routes open to them!???
Irgun was more like Fatah (only it MOSTLY didn't target civilians). Even so the Israeli government forced it to disarm (see the Altalena affair), because you can't have multiple independent armed militias in one sovereign authority.
Again, the border crossings were open after Israel withdrew (except for Rafah, because there had to be an agreement from Egypt too). In any case, it was a major show of good will from Israel, yet it was reciprocated with dozens of Palestinian rockets.
I, btw, disagree with these categories and spectrum. I think that there are political movements, terror organizations, and hybrids such as Hamas and Hizbollah, which are more successful and have more legitimacy because they are able to mobilize support by providing social services.
But they are not just NATIONAL movements, they are IMPERIAL movements, because their goal is to create an Islamic Caliphate on all "Muslim land"
i disagree, there is no proof as such, & especially in case of Lebanon which is too Diverse to be forced Sharaiat upon, & neither has Hamas stated any desire to do so ! & also disagree over the nature of Rocket attacks, the attacks were reciprocal to Israeli IDF,& i can find for each instance a rocket is fired into Israel an IDF action which triggered the attack ! so we can have a long discussion here! & unlike Israel Palestine is not a established state to dismantle any militias!
fair enough but at the end of the day, Israel will have to deal with Hamas one way or another! as far as your neighbors go besides Lebanon & some what Syria, Egypt & Jordan already have accepted & signed the peace deals with u, let me ask this, do u believe that unless there is pressure from US, Israel would negotiate by herself??
Negotiate what with Hamas? Israel's right to exist? The right of Israeli citizens not to be targeted by rockets and terror? I don't understand how can it be acceptable for one side to shoot rockets, while responding to the rockets with force is "not the way." And how can you claim that this is an unbiased view? This is clearly an anti-Israel view, and Israel has the RIGHT to defend itself!
The negotiations with Syria were temporarily suspended by Syria because of the situation in Gaza.
do you truly believe that a ragtag Gorilla force like Hamas can threaten the existence of a country with the #5 military of the world ?? come on now!! if Israel respects Palestinians right to exist , we get a solution !can u answer that Israel has stop Settlements ?? & what was the intent o settlements to begin with ! so u can not absolve Israel from behaving like a Bully & not accepting UN resolutions !
One hand is US support (in the UN SC, military, etc., therefore it must always be in line with US policy)
The other hand is the double standard it is held to. No other country's actions have been put under the same scrutiny as those of Israel. And people like you try to delegitimize its right to self defense.
If feel that Israel is like the Czechoslovakia of the post-war era.
ahh shut the fuck up lieing ass biches kill all jews SCUM OF THE EARTH
xoxopalestinexoxo 5 months ago
muslim, 'falestinian' arabs: haters and violent wherever they go. the most uncivilized people in the world. Also, perhaps, the most unintelligent.
inetfraud 1 year ago
fuck you israel if i see a jew in gemany i kill him
FREE PALASTINE FREE UNITED ARABIA!!
streetboy931 1 year ago
MUZZIE ANOIMALS
Tomislavv2 1 year ago
@kathy0042
What had to stop is the imigration of legs and arms amputating Islamomonsters to the civilized world.World is slowely awakening about what Islam is,child molesting,pedofile mutilating cult of war criminals,killers,woman abusers,stoners of girls and inforcers of child marrige.
Death to Islam R.I.P all victimes of this subhuman deviated perverted bestiale cult.
Tomislavv2 1 year ago
LMAO at :40 to :45. 5 jews back up when the guy scared them. loool. israelis screaming like bitches. arrest them aresst them. lmaoo
palisolja4life 1 year ago
i noo u fuckin jewss saw my brother walkin up to u n juss likee little u let him pull tht yellow sign out of ur hands n u juss lett himm i was ther n ther was the same amount of jews as arabs no excuses all u do is talk i didnt c one of u walk over to us butt c us come up to u bigg nose PALESTINE FOREVERRR :)
50423sam 1 year ago
i noo u fuckin jewss saw my brother walkin up to u n juss likee little bitches u let him pull tht yellow sign out of ur hands n u juss lett himm like pussy i was ther n ther was the same amount of jews as arabs no excuses bitches all u do is talk i didnt c one of u walk over to us butt c us come up to u bigg nose fuckersss PALESTINE FOREVERRR :)
50423sam 1 year ago
i wonder if any of them think this is making a difference????
jpalmer170 1 year ago
Iluvfighters let me tell you something I was there I am neither jewish or Arab and both sides were pretty intense and there were many people there on both sides. I do however find it somewhat amusing the level of maturity you present with your foul arguement and your incredible vanity. Peace be upon you :)
ElizzabethP 2 years ago
@ElizzabethP you need to shut up bcuz there were about 2,oo arabs and 5 jews and there was no other culture so shut up bitch
iluvfighters 2 years ago
its ridiculous how immature/ignorant you are. Great comeback by the way it made me laugh :).
ElizzabethP 2 years ago
there was about 20,000 palestinians no lie and there was about 10 jews wat does that tell u the jews no they wrong palestinianforeverkid fuck all the jews hatin we kno were gud and they bad so they can fuck off and go to hell wahyat allah there was litereally about 10 jews and they were all ugly and all us arabs look gud
iluvfighters 2 years ago
I'm sorry that you have to hear this on a website for the first time in your life...but YOU ARE BRAINWASHED. your family and friends have brainwashed you. its such a shame what they teach these kids. btw if you hate Israel so much...get off the computer...it was invented in Israel :)
rimshotsnw 2 years ago
ur a fucking dumbasss the computer was invented by israel u dumb bitch it was invented by a jew and none is 2 say if he was zionist or not and second thing u dirty slut is none is more brainwashed then the isralei settlers palestnians have not kicked them out of thier home and bombed their houses or shot at their mothers unlike palestnians who have seen tht all first hand
Rockthrower100 1 year ago
@Rockthrower100
Actaully sir, if you use a computer that was made in this century...your using products of Israel. im not really gonna go into the list of things you prob use from Israel bc its just so many. and your facts are wrong about everything else. oh btw...nice language, did your terrorist palestinain sand people teach you those words?.
rimshotsnw 1 year ago
Actually sir i dont import my computers from damn israel o lmfaoo they wouldnt be facts if they were wrong so technically u just agreed everything i said was right here let me prove u wrong and post up some articles o ty hahah ur not worth the dirt of the palestnians ya were the terroists were the onez tht occupiede the land shot civialans kicked them out of their homes same b.s. over and over again always claming urselfs as the victims u guys cant even got ur story right first u say god
Rockthrower100 1 year ago
gave u tht land then u say british mandate first
-When was the country of israel founded & by whom before 1948 ?? -What were its borders before 1948 ?? -What were it major cities before 1948 ?? -Name at least one israelian leader before 1948. -What was the origin of the people who lived in JERUSALIM in the past ??What is the name of israeli currency before 1948 ??-What's the exchange rate between israelian currency & any other currency before 1948 ??
Rockthrower100 1 year ago
@Rockthrower100
theres really no use arguing with someone who doesnt know what hes talking about.
all those questions you just asked me, could be easily answered if you actaully look at both sides. im not your teacher.
rimshotsnw 1 year ago
AKA I DONT HAVE ANY OF THT INFORMATION I AM JUST TALKING OUT OF MY ASS
Rockthrower100 1 year ago
@Rockthrower100
aka Why should i do someones homework for them and give a history lesson over youtube. See I will debate with people who are worth debated with. As in people that do their research and understand both sides. Since you obviously are biased and really do not know much in this subject, there's no point in arguing. If I was giving a tour in Israel i would answer those questions. Actaully try answering those for so called "palestine" you won't be able to answer any of them
rimshotsnw 1 year ago
ITS NOT HW OR HISTORY LESSONS ITS BACKING UP WHAT YOU SAY. YUP CLEARLY IM THE ONE THT IS NOT WORTH DEBATING CAUSE YOU HAVE ASKED ME ? AND I HAVE NOT ANSWERED THEM . NO MY FRIEND U R THE BIAST ONE THT ONLY SEES WHAT THE MEDIA FEEDS YOU. ANSWER THEM FOR YOUR TERRORIST COUNTRY
Rockthrower100 1 year ago
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SLAUGHTERING PALESTINIANS YEAR AFTER YEAR AT THE RATIO OF "8 vs 1" AND THEN CLAIMING YOU ARE THE VICTIM OF TERRORISM AND ANTI SEMITISM IS SIMPLY "LAUGHABLE" BY ANY RATIONAL, LOGIC, RELIGION OR CREED. NO EXCUSE* IS CREDIBLE FOR THESE LEVELS OF TERRORISM. NOT EVEN THE JEWISH HOLY TORAH ALLOWS KILLING BEYOND AN EYE FOR AN EYE!
Sourse of ratio: BT Selem Israeli Human Rights Group & Amnesty International
Rockthrower100 1 year ago
SLAUGHTERING PALESTINIANS YEAR AFTER YEAR AT THE RATIO OF "8 vs 1" AND THEN CLAIMING YOU ARE THE VICTIM OF TERRORISM AND ANTI SEMITISM IS SIMPLY "LAUGHABLE" BY ANY RATIONAL, LOGIC, RELIGION OR CREED. NO EXCUSE* IS CREDIBLE FOR THESE LEVELS OF TERRORISM. NOT EVEN THE JEWISH HOLY TORAH ALLOWS KILLING BEYOND AN EYE FOR AN EYE!
Sourse of ratio: BT Selem Israeli Human Rights Group & Amnesty International
PLEASE MEMORIZE & HELP POST THIS COMMENT ON MANY OTHER ISRAEL RELATED VIDEOS!!!
Rockthrower100 1 year ago
fuck jews im arabic and palestinian and muslim i think i know if theyre the ones startin shot or not and i was there and there were jews startin shit with my parents and all u fuckin jews need to go to hell u fuckin killers
iluvfighters 2 years ago
Jews never stole "Palestine." first of all it was the "palestine mandate (british)" from 1553 till 1922 that whole area (middle east) was ruled by the turkish..(ottoman empire) Jews lived there for over 3700 years. The british promised all that land to the Jews...but in 1922 winston churchill gave 80% of the land to arabs. THEN the U.N divided the last 20% into an area for Jews and Arabs. but nope...those asshole greedy arabs didnt like how Jews had one sixth of 1 percent of the middle east.
rimshotsnw 2 years ago
ISRAEL ROREVER!
Tigertomany29 2 years ago
There is no name like West Bank . The land name is Judea and Samaria! This is a Jewish land . So people please don't listen leberals who tel you West Bank. Liberals can call theirs own houses even Bank of America if they want. This land belong to us! Leberals stop tel us what to do we are fed up of you! ISRAEL FOREVER!
Tigertomany29 2 years ago
yo JEWcurl bitch wana do us all a favor? take yur UGLY ass to the back of the protest. !
i bet yu wouldnt be doing all that movement if i was there. ugly bitch.
PALESTINE FOREVER BITCH :)
PalistineFOREVERkidd 2 years ago
O reallyyy???? Wow thanks.... Idk wht the helll yr trying to say
bigcliffview 2 years ago
0:40 my boi ! hahah fearless ! jews got pissed when he took their sign lol
DjDemiurg 2 years ago
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DjDemiurg-
Foolish Americans defend Palestinians!
Palestinians & 911
'Attacks celebrated in West Bank' by The Times, UK
'Palestinians Celebrate Attacks with Gunfire' by Joseph Logan (Reuters)
'AP protests threats to freelance cameraman who filmed Palestinian rally' (AP)
'Foreign journalists 'deeply concerned' by PA harassment' (AP)
'Israel to AP: Release film of Palestinian celebrations' (The Associated Press)
lacarneceria613 2 years ago
@DjDemiurg ayy thts my brother u saw howw those bitches let him do thtt
50423sam 1 year ago
FUCK hamas!
Tigertomany29 2 years ago
We can see here that Palestinians are the ones who start the fights like this Palestinian prick in the video.
YehudaMizrahi 2 years ago
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Yehuda-
Gaza attack on Americans
PBS
Oct 15, 2003
A roadside bomb ripped through an armored van in the Gaza Strip Wednesday, killing three Americans traveling through the area in a U.S. diplomatic convoy.
Yasser Arafat and his new prime minister, Ahmed Qurei, condemned the attack immediately. At the scene, however, there was a rather different reaction. Crowds gathered rather quickly; they began stoning a group of American investigators who arrived.
lacarneceria613 2 years ago
Joel u a bitch look at that kid at the end were pigs???? The kid in the black stood up to allll of them you Israel are scared asssss burnt cookies that Hitler forgot to bake I'm hanini I know how you Jews hideAnd act white ya'll can't fight there's. A reason why 10 cops are on the Palestinian side and 1 on the demons side hahahahaaa scared asses
bigcliffview 2 years ago
bigcliff-
Since 2003, an estimated 10,000 non-Jewish immigrants from various African countries have illegally entered Israel . Some 600 refugees from the Darfur region of Sudan have been granted refugee status. Another 2,000 refugees from the conflict between Eritrea and Ethiopia have have been granted temporary resident status on humanitarian grounds.
Throughout this year, Egyptian police have shot dead 20 African asylum seekers attempting to enter Israel.
lacarneceria613 2 years ago
Fuck allah and the pedophile prophet Muhammad!
I WISH a Hummer drove over all those Palestinian pigs. Hopefully, Israel will take care of the rest of this SWINE.
Joelomite 2 years ago
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FUCK ALL THE JEWS IN MIAMI
adsam16 2 years ago
eat some pork you pos.
PatriotReporting 2 years ago
i am christian and lots of ppl like me want muslims to die so FUCK ISLAM FUCK MUHAMED PEDOPHIL SHIT FUCK UR RACE
guidette1 2 years ago
STUPID JEWS
UR ALL DEAD TO ME!
bst2005 3 years ago
Kill those fucking Arabs
pakruy 3 years ago 4
damnnnnnn right nuke all middle east then will be peace in the world FUCK ISLAM KILL ALL MUSLIMS
guidette1 2 years ago 4
ya clearly were the ones tht dont want peace because were r the ones tht stole peoples land and threw them in refugee camp,s
Rockthrower100 1 year ago
NUKE U FIRST U SEEM TO BE FILLED WITH HATE
Rockthrower100 1 year ago
@guidette1 fuck you to
kennedy072 1 year ago
@pakruy you maniac you mother is just like emily rose
kennedy072 1 year ago
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Israel is the new nazi germany.
rencrow 3 years ago
Nazi jews?
ArgaKontot 3 years ago
yes.
rencrow 3 years ago
agreed
laralovesu 2 years ago
Fuck the jews
youss2324 3 years ago
geopolitics . us
enoughie 3 years ago
These people are the enemy within.
They hate the west so why are they here?
Thats why the world hates islam.
Yonah613 3 years ago 2
um nobody hates islam sweety so dont fucking act stupied
laralovesu 2 years ago
yes most of the real world hates islam and are waiting for the so called peaceful Muslims to speak up and stop the killing of any non Muslims, but this will not happen.
Did your mom or allah teach you to cuss and to have a toilet mouth.
One last thing it is stupid not stupied.
Yonah613 2 years ago
the cops should soot them i would
guidette1 2 years ago
The palestinians danced and celebrated during our 9/11 catastrophe...Now they are crying??? so sorry...get out from Florida.
peaceonearth1900 3 years ago
fuck islam nuke middle east fuck all arabs
guidette1 2 years ago
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fuck you you son of a bitch.
FilmMatic1 2 years ago
Gee Elizabeth, you say in your description they got a little angry? I mean people who support the kililng of 1300 people in 3 weeks and support an illegal occupation of a country that was born through terrorism, and continues its terorirsm to this day, deserve to get spit on. Don't play victim here, the Zionist movement is a cancer to this planet.
YankeeRph 3 years ago
those israelians that not remember what the nazis did to then should just look back
and not do the same to palestinians, people should respect and love people not hate
that is the only thing that religion do
hate to others that are different from u.
Missiologo 3 years ago
the whole world is protesting against the gaza massacre and only in america ppl protest for the massacre.
sirtadz 3 years ago
looks like fun.lol
why'd Jewish people go there to antagonize them?
KoolAiddroolaid 3 years ago
fuck israel and every bad jew on the face of earth i hope all will burn in hell u mother fuckers.............viva viva palestine
iyas92 3 years ago
the people taking charge, because the US government failed to do so, think about it
JuliusLT 3 years ago
this is no rhetoric on HATE,..but a question arises as to WHY MOSSAD HAD BOMB LADEN TRUCKS PARKED IN DOWNTOWN MANHATTAN BEFORE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER...BLOW UP...both peoples must sit down at the peace table...and end your ISSUES concerning RELIGION...be AWARE YOU ARE ALL HALF-BROTHERS THROUGH ABRAHAM and HAGAR your MATRIARCH MOTHER THROUGH "ISHMAEL" and "SARAI" ..ISAACS mother...so you are spilling your BROTHERS BLOOD...KING-FISHER
KINGFISHER300 3 years ago
Hitler says : I left some jews alive so people find out why I was killing them"
Everybody who has a brain in his head should have found out
MoroccanHotShot 3 years ago
Cubans trying to keep the peace between Pro-Israelis & Pro-Palestinians in Downtown Miami. Something else for "Miami-Dade" Cubans to think about. No, Elian has left the building...
guitormentor 3 years ago
14/01/2009: Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann, The president of the UN General Assembly has condemned Israel's killings of Palestinians in its Gaza offensive as "genocide"
sootykettel 3 years ago
fucking muslem are monkeys
avishhazan 3 years ago
fucking jews are pigs
drsaleh77 3 years ago
You know, Zionist Jews posing as outrageous right wingers, nasty Arabs, extremists Muslims and even Nazis, to spread hate and misinformation between Muslims and Christians and in order generate sympathy for themselves and support for Israel, are 'ten a penny' on youtube.
;)
sootykettel 3 years ago
shows how stupid you are. Can't even spell MUSLIM. Just go find something better to do. You're making yourself look stupid.
FilmMatic1 3 years ago
god dam*n all fuc*king zionists
abounij 3 years ago
Eh gads the Orlando cops were so much more organized for the Hamas parade January 8th at Lake Eola than these cops. They look like the keystone cops.
Funny. Looks like the Orlando cops will have to give the Miami cops some training sessions.
Truthpolice9698 3 years ago
state sponsered ZIONISM.
BOYCOTT ISRAEL.
PaulMcCoch 3 years ago 2
Fuck Israel
cacawea 3 years ago
"arrest them, arrest them"
ROFL!!!
pizzakid770 3 years ago
pro israel = pro murder
defenderoftruth11 3 years ago
hmm then to make that even more precise pro palestine=pro terrorism. But no I will not be stupid enough to say that. Why? Because I happen to be pro israel and pro palestine. But i am anti HAMAS and HEZBOLLAH so next time you make associations like that dear friend. Be a little more cautious.You dont know the entire story apparently so it would be of great benefit to you to get unbiased info and do your own research.
ElizzabethP 3 years ago
i'm pro pre-1967 israel
how's that?
defenderoftruth11 3 years ago
its not israels fault it kicked some serious Arab butt. Dont be hating. I think this is more than about land or religious war fare. The arab nations simply hate Israel. So instead of targetting those who terrorize and who endanger their own people (IN USING THEM AS SHIELDS) why do you place the blame on Israel. As if they dont have casualties as well.
ElizzabethP 3 years ago
i'm not pro hamas, if that's what you're thinking. any israeli civilians deaths are just as devastating. i don't see it as religious warfare, i see it as a group of greedy people kicking people from their homes (serious human rights violation), and i don't mean that all israelis are that way. and maybe the arab nations do hate israel, but i don't support them either. i think they're all doing something wrong.
defenderoftruth11 3 years ago
I blame the UN for the horrible way they distributed the land. In the 1948 partition act. That land used to belong to England. So any claim to that land is not really legitimate.
ElizzabethP 3 years ago
sigh. i wish there was an easy way to solve the world's problems. i think the israelis are not interested in a two-state solution (they want all the land) and what would the palestinians have gotten out of two states? they lived on all the land before 1948, so taking a part of their land away from them would not have made sense, unless they were given compensation
defenderoftruth11 3 years ago
by the way i'm not trying to disagree with you.
however i'm not understanding if you're pro-israel-that-forced-700,000-palestinians-from-their-homes, or pro-jewish-state (i am for the latter)
defenderoftruth11 3 years ago
Burst your little bubble. Your not defending truth you are defending your own warped version of what you believe truth should be. How disappointing that people are so delusional.
ElizzabethP 3 years ago
i am defending truth:
murderers are murderers no matter who they are. that goes for all of hamas, israel, and any person who is living in this world. but some people still don't understand that (not talking about you)
defenderoftruth11 3 years ago
some people still dont understand that because they dont know the issue other than what they see on the news.
ElizzabethP 3 years ago
LMAO!
u ppl R retarded!
and u still call us "UNEDUCATED"
well Einstein, if u wanna no the answer then i suggest u look in the history books "the REAL history books" not the cheap unreal 1s that u made up
5ale9 3 years ago
so tell me oh great one since apparently you are so enlightened, what book am i missing out on. Its funny how you assume I am jewish by the way. Your so wise. I just love it.
ElizzabethP 3 years ago
ok............
although im still wonderin when i said u r but......
anyways, u ppl no the truth yet u lie to ur selves every mornin sayin wer the 1s who killed u for the land....ect
and u say that we still dont no the issue. THAT, shows that u dont no the issue
and u no y? cuz we R the issue, wer the 1s who have to live with this crap and u just watch it, so dont be goin around sayin we dont understand cuz we uderstand more than ull ever get to
5ale9 3 years ago
LMAO!!! jews r pussies!!
fuckin retards callin out a fight when they no they gonna get their asses whooped
5ale9 3 years ago 5
Jews are cowards! Nothing but cowards.
FilmMatic1 3 years ago
you no it cuz
5ale9 3 years ago
Thats very classy. :) I bet you would not say that to someones face.
ElizzabethP 3 years ago
LMAO, dont think every1 is like u guys
cuz ppl all around the world no ur nothin but cowards
thats y when the first islamic rocket hit israel THEY ALL RAN TO THEIR SHELTERS!
5ale9 3 years ago
hmm and what in the world would you do stand there and watch it as just it approaches you? Do you realize how idiotic your making yourself sound. Thats just idiotic. So Hamas surrounding itself with civilians is the perfect excuse then because they arent hiding? Who are you kidding? your obviously ignorant or uneducated. Im not against palestine but I dont understand your hatred for israel. My question is why?
ElizzabethP 3 years ago
@5ale9
too bad they kick everyones ass who tries to touch them..
rimshotsnw 1 year ago
@5ale9 Usually one Israeli can take out 5 physicaly and 1000 muslim intelectualy
Tomislavv2 1 year ago
news. bbc. co. uk/2/hi/ middle_east /7286264 . stm
y2raza 3 years ago
Yes. Olmert has been a lame duck ever since the war in Lebanon, so he has to make lame political maneuvers to get support from the Right.
This construction is meaningless, because Givat Zeev is part of the major settlement blocs (3% of WB) that are adjacent to the "Green Line", and it is obvious to everyone that it would be part of Israel under any final agreement (after land swap)
This is not an expansion of the settlement, only growth within the territory of the existing bloc
enoughie 3 years ago
u should work for Faux News, you only provide half truths to justify civilian massacre by IDF, like yesterday when Sean Hannity kept bemoaning the number of rockets fired which have resulted in 0 civilian casualty, but never even mentioned the 500+ civilians butchered by IDF.
U are the Sean Hannity of youtube!
y2raza 3 years ago
& u still have not admitted the fact that you were spreading false hoods about Camp David 2000! by spreading disinformation !
y2raza 3 years ago
I provided an article that was published on the PLO's own Negotiations Affairs Department!!
If you're siding with the Palestinian narrative of events at Camp David (since there are no transcripts), and yet claim that what I said are falsehoods (even though it is backed by evidence and supported by the Palestinians themselves), then you just believe whatever it is convenient for you to believe. Where's the disinformation?
enoughie 3 years ago
"It is fair to fault Arafat for lacking the courage to strike a deal at Taba; for being a maddening, vacillating, passive negotiator; for condoning violence that unseated the best Israeli peace partner the Palestinians could have had. But the common view in the West that Arafat flatly rejected a reasonable peace deal, and that it is thus pointless to attempt a strategy of negotiation, is a myth".
now what exactly is the crux of your point!
the article was published in NYTIMES & was linked
y2raza 3 years ago
> now what exactly is the crux of your point!
That part about "condoning violence that unseated the best Israeli peace partner the Palestinians could have had"
If not for that we probably could have resolved much (if not all) of the conflict. Instead we got a decade of violence that resulted in countless victims on both sides, and no resolution in sight.
enoughie 3 years ago
no body condones or wants to condones violence,one has to be rational & tempered in these matters, other than me debating you here how many times do u see a genuine debate on MSM in USA? every criticism of Israel is wrongly characterized as antisemitism, & if it is a Jewish person, he or she is labeled a Self hating Jew,!??!?!
y2raza 3 years ago
> every criticism of Israel is wrongly characterized as antisemitism, & if it is a Jewish person, he or she is labeled a Self hating Jew,!??!?!
I agree (even though criticism from someone like "fuzzywzhe" here can be defined as such). But on the other hand, in most other countries throughout the world (Europe and ME) you have the exact opposite. You only hear the "Palestinian side" (which apparently is now the side of Hamas) and rarely does the Israeli side has a voice there.
enoughie 3 years ago
what is your solution to the problem ?? & do you consider every one anti semite who disagrees with Israel policies??
y2raza 3 years ago
I now watched the Bob Simon interview, and I agree with most of what he said, only I'm a bit more optimistic.
When Ariel Sharon was running for reelection in 2006 (before his stroke) his platform was that of "Hitkansut" ("coming together"- a code word for removing settlements from the WB). After the "Hitnatkut" ("disengagement" from Gaza).
Sharon wanted to show that if Israel withdraws it will get security, and if it is attacked from that area it will respond with devastating force.
enoughie 3 years ago
Israel wants 2 things: PEACE & SECURITY.
No Israeli is willing to accept the idea that once Israel withdraws from some area there would be no one responsible to guarantee the security of its citizens.
This is why it was in Sharon's best interest to not initiate any attacks on Gaza, and to respond with devastating force (against militants) if attacks took place.
Under this platform, of removing settlements from the WB, Sharon was projected to receive 40 Mandates in the Knesset
enoughie 3 years ago
That means over 75% of Knesset for Center-Left parties. If you listen again to Bob Simon's interview, he mentions 2 important facts: the Amona removal
This (under Olmert, who replaced Sharon) was before the elections. Yet his party ploc (Kadima+Gil) received 36 Mandates in the Knesset. So there was a vast consensus in Israel to remove settlements (not all, but at least some).
The second issue is Hamas - Simon clearly says that Hamas wants to provoke Israel, as it does. Not tit for tat.
enoughie 3 years ago
When Hizbollah abducted the 2 soldiers, you can notice that in the first few days of the war in Lebanon Olmert said that "winning this war will help the Hitnatkut" (meaning: if we show that we can respond to an attack from an area from which we withdrew (Lebanon), the Israeli public will be in favor of more withdrawals). So Israel has no reason to provoke attacks, its government wants to show that SECURITY is possible.
Hizbollah and Hamas want conflict to continue, because they gain from it.
enoughie 3 years ago
Regardless, Israel was and is trying to avoid civilian casualties. The unfortunate results in Lebanon were a major blow to all moderates in the region. The military campaign in Lebanon was not convincingly successful, and the UN SC resolution 1701, which called for disbanding all militant groups in Lebanon has strengthened Hizbollah 3 fold.
This is why it is important for Israel to end the Gaza offensive in a way that prevents Israeli civilians from being under the constant threat of rockets.
enoughie 3 years ago
The loss of life in Gaza is devastating, but it is entirely the fault of Hamas. Hamas is booby trapping schools, residential buildings and Mosques, uses civilians as human shields, while hiding its terrorists in bunkers.
If it turns successful (by military or political means) that would strengthen the moderates.
While all those who protest against ISRAEL and not against HAMAS, are contributing to the cycle of violence to continue. You cannot equate a provocative terror org. to a moderate state
enoughie 3 years ago
In the first day of bombings in Afghanistan, following the 9/11 terror attacks some 3000 Afghan civilians were killed. It is devastating, but it is not even comparable.
The majority of people killed in Gaza are Hamas (at least 200 of 280 identified are known by name! as Hamas members). Israel is constantly dropping leaflets, and making thousands of phone calls to let the population know where it is striking Hamas.
There is absolutely no equivalence here.
enoughie 3 years ago
So what is my solution?
The world community must support the moderates on both sides, and unequivocally condemn Hamas for its provocations and use of civilians.
Once Israelis see that there is support for its SECURITY, it would strengthen the majority that wants an end to the conflict.
The Palestinians need to have a leadership that is willing to be sovereign over ALL its territory, and not allow any terror groups use it to launch attacks on Israel.
Then Israel can start removing settlements
enoughie 3 years ago
Now, obviously you cannot remove all settlers (400,000+ people), but the vast majority of settlers live in settlement blocks adjacent to the border with Israel (probably 3% of WB territory). The rest should be removed. (The exact border, with swaps here and there, should be decided on through negotiations). Jerusalem must be divided and the refugees who wish so must return to Palestine.
enoughie 3 years ago
..and other things like secure passage from Gaza to WB and so on, but these are trivial compared to the major issues.
What's important is for the PA to have a strong (and recognized by Palestinians and the global community) leadership that can rule THE WHOLE territory, and have a desire to live in peace with Israel.
enoughie 3 years ago
what is Israel doing right now to alleviate the situation, are there any stops being put to settlements ?? what about the Highway only meant for settlers ?? isn't that apartheid like tactics??
most of ur comments are well intentioned but what about Israeli govt not doing any thing?
y2raza 3 years ago
Well, now the situation is complicated, since all eyes are on Gaza. If the conflict in Gaza ends with Hamas winning, or that rockets keep flying into Israel, it will be very difficult to mobilize public opinion in Israel to do much against the settlers.
> what about the Highway only meant for settlers ?? isn't that apartheid like tactics??
Fact is, Israel has a responsibility to protect ALL its citizens. There were many cases of sniper shootings on settlers, so Israel had to prevent that.
enoughie 3 years ago
Now, I'm not happy with this system, but you have to put it in perspective: before 1988 there were no checkpoints in the WB. Anyone (Israelis and Palestinians) could move in and out of Israel without interference.
But there was also no Palestinian authority to govern Palestinians. It was simply "occupied territories" by Israel, and no one who was willing and able to negotiate with Israel and rule there.
enoughie 3 years ago
why Olmert did not push for peace while the truce was in place! he even suggested something like that in an interview where he pointed to dismantling Settlements !
how about a one state solution! since the Likud & right is not going to let the peace process go ahead!
y2raza 3 years ago
The main diff between Likud, Labor, and now Kadima is how flexible they are on security issues. But they are all willing to negotiate.
If there was some effective force, Pal. or intl' that could guarantee Israel's security, it wouldn't be a problem to reach an agreement with any Israeli leadership. But as you can see from the UN force in Lebanon, which is utterly ineffective, Israelis are very skeptical about this. Maybe, if the Gaza offensive is successful they'd be more forthcoming..
enoughie 3 years ago
But as long as Israelis see so much international hostility (as you can see in this youtube video) toward what they perceive as their RIGHT to defend their country from attacks, how do you expect the next elections to go?
And would forcing Israel into a corner by a deal that doesn't really guarantee its citizens' security lead to any good? It would only lead to more deaths on both side. But at least Hamas will be stronger. They feed on hate. Ask "fuzzywzhe", he knows all about it.
enoughie 3 years ago
i know what u mean ! but what about lieberman ??
y2raza 3 years ago
Lieberman would negotiate as well and supports a 2-state solution (but with population swaps), but he doesn't have the electorate support to come to power (about 10).
It is only the National-Religious party (pro-settlement) that would probably never agree to negotiations. But now they have somewhere between 3-5 projected seats.
Even among settlers in the WB, about 40% were willing to relocate for a compensation (at least in 2006, before the Lebanon war). So the fanatics are few but very loud.
enoughie 3 years ago
> But as long as Israelis see so much
> international hostility (as you can see in
> this youtube video) toward what they
> perceive as their RIGHT to defend their
> country from attacks, how do you expect the
> next elections to go?
I expect them to elect the next Hitler and have a final solution to their "Arab problem".
fuzzywzhe 3 years ago
How lovely to see your again. You always run away defeated after spreading hate and lies, but always come back to spew more hate.
enoughie 3 years ago
> How lovely to see your again. You always run away defeated
> after spreading hate and lies, but always come back to spew
> more hate.
I'm not playing some stupid game.
We're at the point the truth will come out either way now. Brownshirts had their day too, just as you did. About the only place in the world with a media so corrupt and lazy to support Israel is the United States, and US insolvency will end that soon enough.
fuzzywzhe 3 years ago
> how about a one state solution!
If you're sick of the violence now, imagine the same thing only on every street in Israel/Palestine and absolutely no one to stop it.
enoughie 3 years ago
so how do u control your right wing fanatics, give a solution!
y2raza 3 years ago
Well, one thing is you need to show a clear vision of a possibility to reach a resolution that would guarantee SECURITY for Israelis.
The success of Op. Defensive Shield in 2002 and construction of the barrier in the WB, for ex., gave Sharon the leverage to withdraw from Gaza. Because Israelis saw that security is significantly improving, and believed Sharon is capable of making Israel secure. I'm not saying that military action is the only way, but it is the only thing that proved effective
enoughie 3 years ago
so far.
The only true issue that bothers the majority of Israelis is SECURITY. If you tackle this wisely, you'll see that the fanatics are powerless. There is still going to be a struggle with them, but not something that Israel cannot overcome.
I believe the best guarantee of security is having a Pal. gov that is sovereign over all its territory, recognized by its people and the world community, and not hostile to Israel - ie. fights provocations against Israel from its territory.
enoughie 3 years ago
But that also means that they have to dismantle the terror infrastructure, arrest terrorists, and stop incitement in mosques, schools and the media
enoughie 3 years ago
how come there are not more pragmatic Jews in USA , who can understand the situation ??
y2raza 3 years ago
I don't know what you define as "pragmatic"
enoughie 3 years ago
meaning who at least admit the fact that the settlements are illegal! & other basic facts about the situation on ground !! every other Israeli supporter i see on TV is fervently irrational & illogical, only sane discussion u can get is on programs like Charlie Rose & Warren Olney's radio show!
y2raza 3 years ago
same on Palestinian side if Israel keeps bombing indiscriminately, it only creates more problem, as far as Fatah goes they are bunch of corrupt goons, that is why hamas won the election to begin with, so Israel at the end of the day has to deal with Hamas & unless the Jewish populace in USA tempers their stance, it does not matter what happens inside Israel since only a strong US president can deliver peace!
y2raza 3 years ago
If you truly think that Israel is indiscriminately bombing Gaza then you're deeply misinformed. If you knew the extent to which soldiers and commanders are trained in combat tactics and methods to avoid civilian casualties, given the very complex reality of urban combat in a densely populated area filled with terrorists, you'd think otherwise.
With that said, in a war there will always be mistakes. A few days ago an Israeli tank killed 3 Israeli soldiers. You think that's intentional?
enoughie 3 years ago
u do have to admit that Israeli forces have presently & in the past killed a large number of Civilians, at the end of the day your People have to admit the right of existence of a state meant for Palestinians, & there will have to be a negotiation with Hamas no matter what! what amazes me is that people who went through Holocaust would treat a whole population in a way which if not Apartheid; is pretty darn close to it!?
y2raza 3 years ago
> u do have to admit that Israeli forces have presently & in the past killed a large number of Civilians
I do admit that. That is the reality of war. But it is unfair to single out Israel. Especially when the % of civilians/combatants killed by Israel are MUCH LOWER than those by, say, NATO in Kosovo, The US in Afghan, Iraq, Viet, Korea. Russia in Chechnya. conflicts in Africa, or any conflict within the Arab world (Lebanon, Jordan, Yemen, Iraq-Iran, etc. etc.)
Therefore It is best to avoid war
enoughie 3 years ago
Israel has to realize that military might will only go so far! Israel has to come to terms with reality!
y2raza 3 years ago
> so Israel at the end of the day has to deal with Hamas
Israel can talk to Hamas, al-Qeada, Ahmadinajad, Hitler, whoever. The question is, is the agreement they come up with is worth the paper it is signed on? or is that only going to lead to further wars?
Hamas doesn't recognize Israel, and fundamentally wants its destruction. Unless it becomes more moderate, and moves away from its fundamentalist stances, there's nothing to talk about.
enoughie 3 years ago
A) Hamas in the past & present given signals that they are willing to live with Israel, but there are certain conditions for that to happen. You should watch Rami Khouri & see what he says to make a better assessment!
B) you have to be more serious than trying to conflate AQ with Hamas, there is absolutely no reason for injecting AQ in this discussion.
C) Ahmedinejad has called for one state solution, which may be the only way left if Israel does not accepts PAL state!
y2raza 3 years ago
> you have to be more serious than trying to conflate AQ with Hamas, there is absolutely no reason for injecting AQ in this discussion.
I would have to disagree here. If you read anything about bin Laden's biography, you'd see that he was deeply inspired by the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood when they were guests at his father's home in SA. Hamas is a branch of the MB in Palestine. It would be nice to ignore that, just because of Hamas' popularity, but it would be an illusion to think otherwise.
enoughie 3 years ago
i am sorry but the discussion about AQ is irrelevant here, A) AQ has done more harm to Muslims around the world than any one else, Physically & other wise!& B) the similarity pointed out by u abt MB & AQ ends right there, MB & Hamas are politico-religious parties who derive their NATIONALISM from religion, where as AQ claims to be a pan-Islamic vanguard & falsely so!
& i can have a whole debate about the origins & the ideology of AQ with u, but that will be separate discussion!
y2raza 3 years ago
you see this is the reason why Israel defenders have been able to divert the attention of the world, by conflating AQ & Hamas, now u tell me how has it benefited the Palestinians by being equated to a Wahabist/Salafist organization whose origins & ideology comes from SA, & was a major benefactor of US support in 80s against SU?? were as SA,EG,JO equally despise Hamas, bcz of their own internal dynamics!
y2raza 3 years ago
I have no intention to divert attention.
You asked how can Jews act like that after the Holocaust. Israel made it clear at the conclusion of the Six Day war that it is willing to return territories conquered for peace and has no desire to rule over the population. And it was rejected by the Arab League.
But Jews also learned that you can't sign a peace treaty with anyone, because they saw the result of "peace in our time", so you can see why they are suspicious of Hamas. For peace you need
enoughie 3 years ago
to build mutual trust. "giving signals" is nice, but not enough for any sane Israeli to compromise the security of its children. Certainly not given all they've seen coming out of Hamas' "death industry"
enoughie 3 years ago
look the fact is, that u do not know how it is to live under occupation, neither do i know how does it feel to be under threat from home made rockets, so u have to meet halfway!
& for good reason You should watch what Rami Khouri has to say & u will understand what i mean!!
y2raza 3 years ago
But this is not really about occupation or settlements anymore, is it?
Israel ended occupation in Gaza, and removed all settlements there. But the rockets never stopped. I watched Khouri. If Hamas were to renounce terror and recognize Israel's right to exist, then we can get somewhere. If you accept the concept that Islamic movements fall into 3 categories: political, hybrid, and terror then Hamas is clearly hybrid. This is unacceptable. It has to show good will & stop inciting/conducting terror
enoughie 3 years ago
well wasn't Irgon just that, wasn't there blood shed of Palestinians ?? & the occupation means the Prison like situation of Gaza, Israel should open Rafah, & should let Gazans travel to WB & then u can say that there is no more occupation!
Gazans are couped up with no Trade routes open to them!???
y2raza 3 years ago
Irgun was more like Fatah (only it MOSTLY didn't target civilians). Even so the Israeli government forced it to disarm (see the Altalena affair), because you can't have multiple independent armed militias in one sovereign authority.
Again, the border crossings were open after Israel withdrew (except for Rafah, because there had to be an agreement from Egypt too). In any case, it was a major show of good will from Israel, yet it was reciprocated with dozens of Palestinian rockets.
enoughie 3 years ago
I, btw, disagree with these categories and spectrum. I think that there are political movements, terror organizations, and hybrids such as Hamas and Hizbollah, which are more successful and have more legitimacy because they are able to mobilize support by providing social services.
But they are not just NATIONAL movements, they are IMPERIAL movements, because their goal is to create an Islamic Caliphate on all "Muslim land"
enoughie 3 years ago
i disagree, there is no proof as such, & especially in case of Lebanon which is too Diverse to be forced Sharaiat upon, & neither has Hamas stated any desire to do so ! & also disagree over the nature of Rocket attacks, the attacks were reciprocal to Israeli IDF,& i can find for each instance a rocket is fired into Israel an IDF action which triggered the attack ! so we can have a long discussion here! & unlike Israel Palestine is not a established state to dismantle any militias!
y2raza 3 years ago
fair enough but at the end of the day, Israel will have to deal with Hamas one way or another! as far as your neighbors go besides Lebanon & some what Syria, Egypt & Jordan already have accepted & signed the peace deals with u, let me ask this, do u believe that unless there is pressure from US, Israel would negotiate by herself??
y2raza 3 years ago
> fair enough but at the end of the day, Israel will have to deal with Hamas one way or another!
Well, Israel is dealing with Hamas now, in one way.
> do u believe that unless there is pressure from US, Israel would negotiate by herself??
Israel IS negotiating with Syria. Despite US disapproval. So yes.
I don't know if US pressure on Israel would really be beneficial. If anything, pressure has to be put on Lebanon, and Syria, and Hamas.
enoughie 3 years ago
dealing this way is not the way, i meant negotiate ! didn't the Syrian negotiations fell thru ??
y2raza 3 years ago
Negotiate what with Hamas? Israel's right to exist? The right of Israeli citizens not to be targeted by rockets and terror? I don't understand how can it be acceptable for one side to shoot rockets, while responding to the rockets with force is "not the way." And how can you claim that this is an unbiased view? This is clearly an anti-Israel view, and Israel has the RIGHT to defend itself!
The negotiations with Syria were temporarily suspended by Syria because of the situation in Gaza.
enoughie 3 years ago
do you truly believe that a ragtag Gorilla force like Hamas can threaten the existence of a country with the #5 military of the world ?? come on now!! if Israel respects Palestinians right to exist , we get a solution !can u answer that Israel has stop Settlements ?? & what was the intent o settlements to begin with ! so u can not absolve Israel from behaving like a Bully & not accepting UN resolutions !
y2raza 3 years ago
> do you truly believe that a ragtag Gorilla force like Hamas can threaten the existence of a country with the #5 military of the world
YES, I truly do!
Because a country's existence doesn't only depend on military might.
Hamas enjoys the backing of hundreds of millions of incited people in the Muslim World, regardless of how vile its actions are.
While Israel is fighting with one hand tied behind its back, while people like you wish to tie its other (regardless of its military might & right)
enoughie 3 years ago
One hand is US support (in the UN SC, military, etc., therefore it must always be in line with US policy)
The other hand is the double standard it is held to. No other country's actions have been put under the same scrutiny as those of Israel. And people like you try to delegitimize its right to self defense.
If feel that Israel is like the Czechoslovakia of the post-war era.
enoughie