real harm is done by slandering a program, a fellowship that has saved thousands of lives. AA has brougt life and MEANING to scores of hopeless drunks and addicts. My hope is that those of you who are hurting, along with all the family and friends that share their desperation are not dissuaded by this mean and small minded production.
wow!! Bill W had the same character defects as me!!!! lust for money...lust for recognition...some what a failure in business dealings as well...HEY!!! i even heard he was a hopeless drunk too! JUST LIKE ME!!!!!
oh for blank's sake. REALLY ? this letter means nothing. a bunch of ridiculous excerpts and the sound track is more than annoying. and i have 24 years sober AND a degree in comparative religion, what is even the point of this ? Kool-ade salesman "our book is meant to be suggestive only"
Sad but true, unfortunately. But really, there are predators everywhere. It would be arrogant for me or anyone to claim AA is perfect. It is not. I'm in it and have been sober for 3 years. It works for me. Flawed as it is. I read the info posted by blamethenile because my mind is open and appreciate Mikes' non-attacking style.
@shootlady357 That is very sad, and I am sorry you went through that. aa saved my life and many people I know. But yes there are still many sick ppl out there!
As I recall from my teachings not one of the Humans God Almighty used to prosper the human
race was anywhere near perfect. One that comes to mind was employed crucifying christian's
and was struck blind on the road to Damascus. God lifted him up to a great Apostle of Christ.
Yet he struggled and was not without sin there after ! But I think he was much closer to God than You ! because he never defamed others who served God and fell short !
It does not effect me in a bad way of your comments. As a matter of fact I thank you for the chance of the tolerance of others. I am betting his life will go down in history as helping many more humans than yours will. If God would have never existed....There never would have been any human being clever enough to invent him.
Thank you for providing this opportunity for 12th step work. I need to remember to practice these principles in all my affairs. My initial response to your video was anger. I respond similarly to much of the AA literature. But then, as the program suggests, I paused and took a spot check inventory. My response was really not proportional to the stimulus. You're merely expressing a point of view. Opportunities such as this give me practice to take the message outside the rooms of AA.
It's all 'about principles, not personalities.' I've stayed sober 12 years by following the programme to the best of my ability, accepting that I am powerless over alcohol but that there is something out there that is greater than I am, and ignoring the flim-flam, fakery and psychobabble. Thanks for sharing this - it is always better to know the truth, even if it isn't pleasant.
@BigB0nes Hi mate, thanks for taking the time to comment. It is always nice to hear from current AA members that are able to express their views reasonably and with respect. I am glad the programme is working for you. Take care, James G (UK)
The man who the letter was sent to,,,In the 3rd edition he wrote Home Brew meister,,,,Anyway he and Bill had some issues YES!! He (Charles) was a christian and that's good. He believed the steps can be taken in just a few hours. That seemed to work for some and not for others. Bill told him it would probably be best if he spread his meesage ELSEWHERE!! As he PISSED enough people off by PUSHING the Jesus issue. Anyway I'm NOT shocked by ANYTHING he might say about Bill or ANYONE!!
@fh346 His name wasn't Charles, but Clarence. He founded AA in Cleveland and yes, took great exception when Bill falsely assumed ownership of the Big Book copyright he had been hired and paid to compile. The woman who sent the letter was the woman who first introduced Bill n' Bob. Mike BD
You've done Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12 Step programs a service. Our Traditions state that we place "principles above personalities". It seems our fellowship has survived in spite of one of its founders. To see a group of people from all walks of life coming together to encourage each other is quite a sight. This fact endures. Our spiritual design for living is neither a religion nor a cult and has room for all that seek. Peace to you, my brother, as we walk the happy road of destiny.
This may very well be true! I have been in AA of and on for over 20 years and now have 8 Clean years in a row! I also have learned alot about Bill W the man, Frankly he wasn't a very good man in or out of sobriety! Saying that the program of AA has saved my life! Regardless of the type of man he was. The first 164 pages i really don't trust because he wrote most of them, I work the steps, have a sponcer, go to LOTS of meetings and work with other Alcoholics in Need! So far so good.
FIRST TO REPLY. YES YOUR RIGHT, I LIKE YOU MUST LIKE CONTROVERSY I GUESS. I WAS WATCHING VIDEOS ABOUT IN THE BEGINNING AND I WASNT PAYING ATTENTION. WHEN I WATCHED IT I STOPPED IT SEVERAL TIMES TO SHARE ABOUT IT AND FOUND THAT IT WAS TO HARD FOR ME TO SHARE BECAUSE OF MY LEVEL IN SHCOOL WAS ONLY 9TH. SO I PUSHED ALL THE BUTTONS. DO YOU MAKE MONEY ON THE VIEWING ARE SOMETHING.OOPS sorry i really didnt know i had caps on. please reply
Here's some real info for you : it was actually the FIRST 100 sober members of AA who wrote the AA 'Big Book' .. not Bill Wilson. The 'First 100' actually served to edit, censor, & to amend a good many of BW's original self-penned writings, & converted them into what they regarded as a more absorbable interpretation of what BW was trying to promulgate. That, my friend, is precisely WHY the term " WE" is used thru'out the Big Book, & not "I, Bill Wilson". Your treatise is all crock-shit ...
@MrMcIntyre78 Good, very good. Now, since you clearly have a resentment regarding this channel, perhaps you should pray for good things for us for the next 30 days. Mike BD
@MrMcIntyre78 They have sold that many in the past four years. If you are going to represent yourself as a 12-step spokesperson, you should get your numbers straight. Mike BD
You can discredit Bill W. all you want. Alcoholics anonomous and its 12 steps have saved millions of otherwise hopeless alcoholics myself included! Bill may have been everything described in this video, but the book he wrote and the guidelines he set down have been helping people for over 75 years!
AA isn't a cult of personality - it's a program of surrender to "God," figuring out who you've wronged, fixing as much of that past damage as possible and then going forward with your own life, trying not to mess up, but taking responsibility for your mess-ups and cleaning up after yourself. Somehow this is big, bad and evil? Get a grip.
@Megamomster Of all the descriptors which come to mind, "schmuck" isn't one of them. Kool-ade salesman, huckster, flim-flam artist, con man, and chiseler, perhaps, but not schmuck. Enjoy the rest of our vids. Mike
@blamethenile Thank you for your interpretation of Bill I am sure he would not mind. It would hurt like it hurts me that you say it. but he would rather be called that than what he was gonna be called had he not got sober. I feel for your ignorance. You are the one in denial. If you dont want help and clearly you need it do not shoot the messenger.
@RHONDA6256 See also our videos on confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. Calling people with whom you disagree ignorant does nothing to prove whatever point you have in mind. Denial of what, precisely? Mike BD
I am 17+ years sober at this moment. I know a man who has 63 years of recovery and knew Bill and Bob personally. In his words Bill was a shyster lawyer backstabbing business man and an adulteress his entire recovery which Mr.Lenos often questioned. I believe my friend. However no matter what he was or how he acted if it were not for his struggles there would not be AA and we would all be in a world of shit...
If indeed that was factual, and I am not agreeing nor disagreeing on its factualness, I find it interesting that the preponderance of evidence was typed words in a homemade video with some creative score put to it. Where are the actual letters? Why no pictures? How about a recorded voice stating the very things that were typed?No , all I saw was a homemade video that some person typed these statements of fact from a letter that is never shown, by a person that isn't interviewed. Fact? Fiction?
@ddmorris1971 We can't post direct links here, but photos are avaliable on the net, with one at the Orange Papers. Go there and search Henrietta Seiberling. Mike
Bill admitted ln his later years you must leave all of your addictions, including going to meetings as a substitute. Calling oneself alcoholic and powerless on a regular basis will make it true, no mater what else you may try to do. There is a way, one step beyond the 12. The Thirteenth Step. watch the video of the same name, get the book on amazon, the best $12 u will ever spend, and get totally free and powerful, as you are meant to be
It truely amazes me how hard you try to discredit aa,and it hurts my heart to think that some vulnerable addict/alcoholic might actualy believe this . Though i dont approve of your message i do accept you for who you are and hope that you find some serenity and peace of mind in your life. but please, please...try to focus on truely helping others w/ addiction/alcoholism. GOD Bless;)
@mccune84 We really don't have to work very hard, since AA's outcomes and methods are becoming more well-known, thanks to the internet. We do focus on helping others, exposing the false solution which is AA. Mike BD
AA is a brotherhood, but what nonalcholics don't and never really will understand is that we are brothers in our defects not our virtues. Thats why AA works. For most of you, don't try to understand it.
@blamethenile I reckon that there are alot of people who need something better to worry about. Your video really didn't make much sence and anyone who's been in AA long enough understands Bill W's faults, we actually get a kick out it because it reminds of ourselves. I don't know what your motives or reasons are, I can speculate but I really don't care. Do whatever you feel you need to
Once I recognized my drunkeness and blow and nicotine habits were just my willful desire to sin repeatedly, I confessed to to JESUS, and I got delivered on the spot. The reason 12 step doesn't work is because it in correctly classifies the problem. It cannot be a disease, addiction, allergy, or behavioral all at the same time. I mean come on pick one. The reason it cant be defined medically is because it is a curse.
Regardless, AA has been proven to work for many, and some did not benefit. Its a complex "disorder" with a complex origin, you can imagine picking the "correct" treatment wouldn't be easy... im just saying
Anytime someone is doing something positve and helping people there will be people who look for and point out some of their shortcomimgs as a means to put down everything they do. As long as the ties that bind us together are stronger than those that would tear us apart, all will be well
@ndrthrdr1 12 step groups and religions dont use any force, they are voluntary. Governments are people who are using threats and violence to force people to pay for their services. Taxes are not voluntary. Its pay or else. Normal people provide their services in the free market without using violence. Citizens are cult members. They support the violence used against them just like Battered wife syndrome. Then they go vote in secret for more violence. Who's the cult member?
@mustaffa1611 Cults generally don't need to use force. They get people who are vulnerable and impressionable, and use the foot-in-the-door technique, love bombing, thought-stopping cliches, carrot/stick, dogma, etc. They paint a rosy picture of a wonderful future with the cult vs. a scary and certain demise without the cult. Study up on Scientology, for example, and compare their techniques to the AA "program." If you can't see similarities, you've been misled, or actually indoctrinated.
@ndrthrdr1 Ive heard stories of scientology stealing peoples money and using lawyers to threaten and steal from people. Anytime a lawyer is involves then threats and violence are involved. All courts do business behind the barrel of a gun..... So what specifically about 12 steps programs bother you?
@ndrthrdr1 There are support groups for everything from cancer patients to domestic abuse to addiction... and you have a problem with that. The power of prayer and meditation has been overly documented to help people heal from just about everything. Many a person has died related to substance abuse, we here of dui's and overdoses everyday. Maybe focus at all the prohibition laws where masked swat teams are raiding homes and destroying families and stealing property in the name of freedom.
@mustaffa1611 No problem with support groups, just with groups recruiting the vulnerable into magical thinking. Google heart patient prayer study. Other support groups (like SMART Recovery) are science-based, not faith-based. Real solutions for real problems.
@ndrthrdr1 Science based? We were just laughing about people who use the word "science" all the time. Whatever definition or concept of science you have is purely subjective? No two people have the same understanding of the word "science?" "Science" is one of those words that is branded with emotional attachments. When people use words with purely subjective definitions it makes communication rather difficult until those terms are clearly agreed upon by both parties.
@ndrthrdr1 Everytime science says one thing then another scientist says something else. So called science has said so many different pharmaceuticals are helpful and then they are always taken off the market in a couple years after making everyone sick. Tesla proved we could all have free electricity by tapping into gravitational pull yet new "science" says that isnt true. Science also says GMO food is safe yet it breaks down into alien amino acids and causes new weird cancers. Science haha
@mustaffa1611 No wonder you removed your comment. Heres my sources for all the pharmaceuticals that were once approved by science not disproved by science. Mercola dot com. You want another 50 examples were "science" contradicts itself all the time. Your god of 'science' is so whacked out, that you did the best thing by running away. Its best to hold on to your dogmatic beliefs than to face the truth.
@ndrthrdr1 It always amazes me how some people are to smart to get what A.A. is? I have no clue to anything or where you came up with any of these things except one. Faith! When did faith become a bad thing? I think when you became to smart to believe in anything other than you're wisdom. I am helpless against anyone's actions but my own. Who do you know that s not? It's not any one person that recovers from alcoholism it is many. So it is with other methods. There is no 100% any where.
@mamasboy815 "I am helpless against anyone's actions but my own."
No, you're not. By promoting the AA cult, you are affecting people's opinions, which affects the behavior of some of them. You're just spouting AA dogma. You're indoctrinated by the cult.
I'm glad you can control another person? Maybe you could start a cult of you're own?
What are you talking about? Are you still messed up on alcohol or some other drugs, or are you messed up on the cult? Your comment makes no sense at all.
being an aa member u can see bills ego at work in the bb and yes i do believe he was a great manipulator look at the way he got the 12 traditions passed but no matter what his message and many other aa's have saved lives mine including so no matter what his work was good and still is
@lucbil2003 I started going to AA because I thought it was a support group. It turned out to be a cult-like organization based on faith healing. They told me I was powerless over alcohol. Odd, considering that I had already demonstrated a measure of power over my drinking problem by deciding to quit, finding a meeting place, investigating their meeting schedule, arranging transportation, attending meetings, and using willpower to stay sober. I left AA when I found SMARTRecovery. Far better.
@ndrthrdr1 i quit many tlimes sometimes for an hour sometimes for 2 hrs but i never surrendered till i found aa have not had to drink for 81/2 yrs so cult or faith healing it works for me but i do knoww aa is not for all so use what works for u but dont put down a program that has saved many lives gl to u and what ever smart recovery is i dont know what it is never heard of itso i wont put it down but if it works for u use it gl and keep it simple
@lucbil2003 I was a member of AA and was very hurt by aa so I have every damn right to put it down if I want. And why don't you look at the facts about who AA helps and how successful it really is. You are in denial about the truth of AA.
didnt know this many ppl hate AA guess im nieve, Im an AA member; if that letter is true or not doesnt matter what Bill said or did doesn't matter hes human like all of you who made mistakes, its not a defense its reality the message i recieved from AA lead me back church by my own choice not theirs I have a relationship with god I never new I wanted call me weak minded i dont care the point is bill put in writing something if nothing else that allowed me and others 2 love god as hes loved me
This video isn't that impressive. Big deal - Old lady spread some bitter gossip about a man she didn't like. Shocker. My grandmother does that on a daily basis.
Sad that Blame The Nile feels the need to be salacious and destructive. I wonder if this same energy and creativity couldn't be put to better use.
In all of human history there has never been born a man that could not be criticized by someone. No prophet, saint, leader, genius, or any other manner of man.
Who has ever put forward the idea that Bill W. was perfect? Who denies that his efforts have helped many many people? Isn't that good enough, or do we demand perfection from someone before their work becomes meaningful?
While AA members are busy "working the steps" to supposedly fix their wrongdoings, ppl outside of AA are doing that on a minute to minute basis. Working the steps can sometimes take the aa member years and even then their so called amends are often never made under the loopholes provided (when it harms self or others). But I guess that is the way it goes in a masonic created cult. Fake it until you make it.
One of the ways AA continues to attract members is that it enables manipulation and actually models and encourages it. If feel this probably stems from it's masoci roots. The aa member can be an abusive ass on a regular basis while also doing charitable acts and then point to those acts to prove that they are more spiritual than the "normy". It's manipulative and deceitful. Bill W and Dr Bob were both classic manipulators and that is prevelant in the aa cult as a whole.
One only has to know a handful of ppl in AA to know how the majority of them are going to behave. They are going to manipulate, deny and avoid any responsibility at all costs. They are going to mock and shame anyone who points out this reality. They are going to narcisistically see themsellves as superior to anyone who doesn't subscribe to their cult. And they are going to reject anyone and anything that does not validate their BS on a daily basis. That's aa tactics in a nutshell.
@beautifulmind546 Ha.you're very funny and dramtic.I don't care what you think of AA..obviously you have a resentment towards it because of your experience. All sorts of people hate all sorts things because of different experiences. I had an argument with a neo nazi on a different thread that claimed I was brianwashed as well because I didn't believe we were being controlled by ZOG(look it up).I'm donw with this conversation..I just wanted to show you that people can be successful in AA.Be well.
@workingclass75 Of course people can be successful and be in AA but that does not automatically mean they are successful because they are in AA. Good luck and take care. B l A m E
I guess this is what comes from putting a cult in place of real authentic healing. The members pat themselves on the backs for doing things the rest of us do everyday and get to pretend that their abuse and violence as well as the denial of it is due to their nonexistent disease. AA, being created by a freemason dr. bob I guess is just another refelction of the culture of selfcentered narcisism. AA members will pray for us just as the other religions destroying this planet and humanitywhatawaste
It's so rad that this thread of comments is filled with the most brilliant people in the world. They are here to save us slaves from the evils of mind control. And they call Bill W. egomanical.
People get sober in AA. It saves life. As an ex hater of AA..I know how you feel. It's easy to get really wrapped up in what you think you should control and what other people should do and know. I love to control my world and tell people what to do.Hate what you want..it's none of my business. But if you think it's so important for people to know this information...look at yourself and your motives for control.
This video is presented by an obvious A.A. hater. If A,A, bothers one so much, then they so just leave it alone and move on. A.A. is for people who want it.
I have been to plenty of groups that call themselves AA that arnt doing AA as described in the basic text. The Courts sentence people to AA against our tradition of attraction rather than promotion. But there is real AA which is sometimes hard to find...true freedom is in the application of the steps. Even if Bill W murdered someone it dosnt matter. He was a member not our president or someone we worship...He was human, like you and capable of making bad decisions.
@Brycelayne True freedom is taking personal responsibility in your choices and being free from a cult. You can make amends for your past behavior on your own, you can make better choices on your own. It absolutely does and would matter if Wilson killed another person. As it was, he preached spirituality while he was a complete criminal and philanderer, made the lives of his family members miserable. He was also capable of making better decisions and instead chose to abuse and lie.
So, were Henrietta and Dr. Bob involved with the freemasons? There seems to be some speech in this letter that would indicate so - "children of the light" hmm?
@blamethenile Thanks for the confirmation. I suspected either Bill or Bob was. Makes sense Bob was a mason. The AA symbol, the belief in a HP as one of the twelve steps and a program that basically keeps people disempowered, brainwashed, the blind leading the blind... leave it to a freemason to design such a program gaurenteed to keep ppl on the cusp of true recovery and healing in a state of cult following and narcisism. "children of light" = luciferian slavery. AA members are basically slaves
@beautifulmind546 I go to two meetings a week, call my sponsor when I have an AA related question, but the majority of my life(including my girlfriend)are folks not in the program and I don't believe in God(in your concept of God).Without that I wasn't able to go a couple days without hard drinking.Abstinence is not enough for a lot of people.I have been able to keep my job, stay out of the violence that has plagued my life(and yours if you were nearby),and be a great father.Am I a Slave?
@workingclass75 Yes you are a slave. You have given up your responsibility and willpower to a cult. You actually ARE able to go without being a drunk or violent person. You have always had a choice. You made the choice when you went to AA except you allowed them to make you believe that it could not be done without them. A willing slave. My concept of God? How do you know what my concept of god is? Does AA teach you about making ASSumptions? Guess not..
@beautifulmind546 My HP is a very personal choice and my spiritual path frees me from calling people terms like slave and brainwashed.Do you feel that others with emotional diseases(biopolar,depression,eds)can just stop one day if they are willing? Or if it's in the realm of posibilty that you don't know everything about everyone and people may need help and a program that you may view as "weak" may help people?There is a difference between being weak and admitting you have a problem.
@workingclass75 there is no such thing as 'emotional disease nor mental illness' Those ppl are just different thinkers that have been controlled by another faulty system and frankly alcoholism and being a drunk is nothing like those who think differently. You have always had the CHOICE to not drink, not be violent but yes, you are WEAK and you blame it on a non existent disease. You don't even think differently, you just DONT THINK or feel. your modus operandi is to escape at all costs.
@workingclass75 There is also a difference between admitting you have a problem and truly owning it. When you are a member of AA you do not do that as the program enables you to blame it on your nonexistent disease. Do you know what you have made your HP? The cult of AA is your real HP when your real HP should be yourself.
@beautifulmind546 Nonexistent disease. I should be myself..You are funny. Are you basing this on the fact that you feel complete control of your world so others couldn't possibly have any affliction that could cause them to make choices that destructive? Is it difficult being the all knower and watching the world writhe in your idea of stupidity all the time? Do you hang out with tom Cruise and berate people on A.D.s?
@workingclass75 I don't know why I bother to argue with brainwashed ppl. You don't get it, I don't feel I have complete control over my world on the contrary. But unlike you I don't run and hide in a bottle or join a cult so that I won't have to own my choices. Most of the world understands this but AA enables you to keep telling yourself this lie that everything you did as a drunk was not your fault, not your choice. YOU CHOSE to be destructive, no 'affliction' made you do anything you did
@beautifulmind546 So...you are basing this on the fact that since you don't hide in a bottle or join a cult that others should behave exactly like you?And yes all the things I did when I was drunk is blood on my hands and up to me to change it. AA is very clear on that.And I am changing in a way that works for me..sorry that you don't/can't understand that and feel the need to attack people and call them names.Do you believe in bipolar or OCD or depression?Oh wise one. :)
@workingclass75 bipolar, OCD and depression are labels that were made up by psych to sell drugs. Let me guess - you have these 'diseases' and are medicating for them. How to explain to a person who has avoided responsibility their entire life including during psuedo recovery that they have allowed themselves to be brainwashed in so many ways? Many ppl don't choose the destruction you choose, many don't choose to believe they are diseased when they are not. Many choose responsibility
@beautifulmind546 ohhhh..internet conspiracy theorist. And I'm the one who's brain washed. What you really haven't answered for me is who the hell are you to judge other people and what they personally need?For a person so hell bent on people being"freed" you certainly are spending a lot of effort trying to convince them of your theroy.And no I do not suffer from any of those afflictions...but that doesn't mean I think I know so much about everything there is that I can say they don't exist.
@workingclass75 Who am I? I am someone who lived through years of abuse and neglect at the hands of escape artisits like yourself. Through all of it, all I wanted was to heal my family and I hoped AA would help with that. All it has done has torn the family further apart. That is who the hell I am. And psych abuse is not an internet conspiracy. it is as much a fact as AA being a full fledged cult.
@beautifulmind546 I am sorry that you have had those experiences..improperly treated drunks are nearly impossible to deal with..trust me I've been one.And if someone is "escaping" his or her responisbilites and blaming it on being a drunk they aren't truly working the program.Accountability is the crux of the whole deal.I no longer blame cops for pulling me over,I no longer blame bartenders for overserving..etc..I no longer let hate drive my choices.I'm happy and you're not.Just sayin..
@beautifulmind546 Life may not always be fair or right..but it's only up to us to make the choices for ourselves. Blaming people and institutions is rarely going to make things better for ourselves. AA is nothing more than a philosphy..the people in it are who they are. Some good some bad..just like anything else. Trying to fit people into your expectations will lead to nothing more than anger. Believe that.
@workingclass75 People and institutions need to be held accountable for the lives they destroy. AA is a cult and the ppl who follow it are irresponsible. We all should be able to expect some things, things like to know we aren't going to be abused or manipulated, we should expect accountability and responsibility. The AA mind control 'no expectations' BS was designed to avoid accountability and responsibility and to keep you lemmings "commin back"
@beautifulmind546 First of all calling it a cult doesn't bother me.You can quit trying to gain leverage with that term.Is Buddhism a cult too?And because of your percieved bad experience everyone involved with AA is terrible?Sorry AA didn't come and save your family. And people "should be held responsible".You are very dramatic.This conversation is going nowhere.The spite and resentment you are hung up on is sad.I hope someday you can find it in your heart to live and let live.I'll pray for you.
@2:32
JOHN LENNON MADE THIS SAME CLAIM AS BILL WILSON
IGOROZKARSKY 10 hours ago
real harm is done by slandering a program, a fellowship that has saved thousands of lives. AA has brougt life and MEANING to scores of hopeless drunks and addicts. My hope is that those of you who are hurting, along with all the family and friends that share their desperation are not dissuaded by this mean and small minded production.
4lifeblt 3 days ago
@4lifeblt We merely reported our findings. Forty-six thousand views, and the like/dislike is split about evenly. Mike BD
blamethenile 3 days ago
wow!! Bill W had the same character defects as me!!!! lust for money...lust for recognition...some what a failure in business dealings as well...HEY!!! i even heard he was a hopeless drunk too! JUST LIKE ME!!!!!
melbango1 1 week ago
@melbango1 Since he preceded you, it would be more accurate to say you are just like him. Mike BD
blamethenile 1 week ago
Aa. Has worked for me for 28 years I think I stay with it. I have my family back and a new life. Ray/C
oldandslow1000 1 week ago
@oldandslow1000 Glad it worked out for you. Thanks for stopping by. Mike BD
blamethenile 1 week ago
oh for blank's sake. REALLY ? this letter means nothing. a bunch of ridiculous excerpts and the sound track is more than annoying. and i have 24 years sober AND a degree in comparative religion, what is even the point of this ? Kool-ade salesman "our book is meant to be suggestive only"
bzzkll88 1 week ago
@bzzkll88 Sorry to trouble you with the facts. Carry on. Mike BD
blamethenile 1 week ago
Stop Drinkin' and Start Trippin'
TrinkBruder 2 weeks ago
Hate the music and wonder about the person who likes it.
seasidericky 2 weeks ago
@seasidericky You are stepping over pounds to pick up pences on that one. Mike BD
blamethenile 2 weeks ago
I have been hit on by so many perverted men I had to quit going to meetings.... AA is a sick cult for real predators, to say it mildly!
shootlady357 3 weeks ago
@shootlady357 No arguments from us. Thanks for the post. Mike BD
blamethenile 3 weeks ago
@blamethenile
Sad but true, unfortunately. But really, there are predators everywhere. It would be arrogant for me or anyone to claim AA is perfect. It is not. I'm in it and have been sober for 3 years. It works for me. Flawed as it is. I read the info posted by blamethenile because my mind is open and appreciate Mikes' non-attacking style.
wisersdeluxeman 2 weeks ago
@wisersdeluxeman We appreciate your non-attacking style, as well. Thanks for posting. Mike BD
blamethenile 1 week ago
@shootlady357 That is very sad, and I am sorry you went through that. aa saved my life and many people I know. But yes there are still many sick ppl out there!
Paterson121 2 weeks ago
As I recall from my teachings not one of the Humans God Almighty used to prosper the human
race was anywhere near perfect. One that comes to mind was employed crucifying christian's
and was struck blind on the road to Damascus. God lifted him up to a great Apostle of Christ.
Yet he struggled and was not without sin there after ! But I think he was much closer to God than You ! because he never defamed others who served God and fell short !
rohawaha 4 weeks ago
@rohawaha We aren't crucifying Christians. We aren't discussing God, sins or redemption. Please try to stay on topic. Mike BD
blamethenile 4 weeks ago
Bill Wilson you are rotting in hell where you belong.
kevinfirstnamefinn 1 month ago
Comment removed
SIXTY60PANMAN 1 month ago
It does not effect me in a bad way of your comments. As a matter of fact I thank you for the chance of the tolerance of others. I am betting his life will go down in history as helping many more humans than yours will. If God would have never existed....There never would have been any human being clever enough to invent him.
SIXTY60PANMAN 1 month ago
@SIXTY60PANMAN You are welcome. You are comparing Bill Wilson to God? Mike BD
blamethenile 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why your interest in AA?
ginamrice90 1 month ago
Why your interest in AA?
ginamrice90 1 month ago
Why your interest in AA?
ginamrice90 1 month ago
Thank you for providing this opportunity for 12th step work. I need to remember to practice these principles in all my affairs. My initial response to your video was anger. I respond similarly to much of the AA literature. But then, as the program suggests, I paused and took a spot check inventory. My response was really not proportional to the stimulus. You're merely expressing a point of view. Opportunities such as this give me practice to take the message outside the rooms of AA.
SmellsLikeNow 1 month ago
@SmellsLikeNow You are welcome. Mike BD
blamethenile 1 month ago
"This letter will reveal the true character behind Alcoholics Anonymous"
No it just shows the flawed character of one of the men who founded AA. Many of which he admitted to.
billct2 1 month ago
It's all 'about principles, not personalities.' I've stayed sober 12 years by following the programme to the best of my ability, accepting that I am powerless over alcohol but that there is something out there that is greater than I am, and ignoring the flim-flam, fakery and psychobabble. Thanks for sharing this - it is always better to know the truth, even if it isn't pleasant.
BigB0nes 1 month ago
@BigB0nes Hi mate, thanks for taking the time to comment. It is always nice to hear from current AA members that are able to express their views reasonably and with respect. I am glad the programme is working for you. Take care, James G (UK)
blamethenile 1 month ago
The man who the letter was sent to,,,In the 3rd edition he wrote Home Brew meister,,,,Anyway he and Bill had some issues YES!! He (Charles) was a christian and that's good. He believed the steps can be taken in just a few hours. That seemed to work for some and not for others. Bill told him it would probably be best if he spread his meesage ELSEWHERE!! As he PISSED enough people off by PUSHING the Jesus issue. Anyway I'm NOT shocked by ANYTHING he might say about Bill or ANYONE!!
fh346 1 month ago
@fh346 His name wasn't Charles, but Clarence. He founded AA in Cleveland and yes, took great exception when Bill falsely assumed ownership of the Big Book copyright he had been hired and paid to compile. The woman who sent the letter was the woman who first introduced Bill n' Bob. Mike BD
blamethenile 1 month ago
@blamethenile ,,,,Very Good Sir. I got his name wrong. Thank You for the comment as well as the correction.
fh346 1 month ago
You've done Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12 Step programs a service. Our Traditions state that we place "principles above personalities". It seems our fellowship has survived in spite of one of its founders. To see a group of people from all walks of life coming together to encourage each other is quite a sight. This fact endures. Our spiritual design for living is neither a religion nor a cult and has room for all that seek. Peace to you, my brother, as we walk the happy road of destiny.
SmellsLikeNow 1 month ago 2
@SmellsLikeNow ,,,,How True!! What an AWESOME observation. THANK YOU!!!
fh346 1 month ago
This may very well be true! I have been in AA of and on for over 20 years and now have 8 Clean years in a row! I also have learned alot about Bill W the man, Frankly he wasn't a very good man in or out of sobriety! Saying that the program of AA has saved my life! Regardless of the type of man he was. The first 164 pages i really don't trust because he wrote most of them, I work the steps, have a sponcer, go to LOTS of meetings and work with other Alcoholics in Need! So far so good.
stylinroman 2 months ago 6
@stylinroman ,,,AMEN.
fh346 1 month ago
ok well i just cannot believe there is no reason you must have a reason.
RHONDA6256 2 months ago
@RHONDA6256 There are lots of reasons, but few which would make sense to a happy follower of the the 12-step movement. Mike BD
blamethenile 2 months ago
FIRST TO REPLY. YES YOUR RIGHT, I LIKE YOU MUST LIKE CONTROVERSY I GUESS. I WAS WATCHING VIDEOS ABOUT IN THE BEGINNING AND I WASNT PAYING ATTENTION. WHEN I WATCHED IT I STOPPED IT SEVERAL TIMES TO SHARE ABOUT IT AND FOUND THAT IT WAS TO HARD FOR ME TO SHARE BECAUSE OF MY LEVEL IN SHCOOL WAS ONLY 9TH. SO I PUSHED ALL THE BUTTONS. DO YOU MAKE MONEY ON THE VIEWING ARE SOMETHING.OOPS sorry i really didnt know i had caps on. please reply
RHONDA6256 2 months ago
@RHONDA6256 We do this as a public service, and no money from it. Mike BD
blamethenile 2 months ago
These people were human beings
Jerry K
DOS 11/18/2003
1957Jfk 2 months ago
@1957Jfk I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, but thanks, anyway. Mike BD
blamethenile 2 months ago
Here's some real info for you : it was actually the FIRST 100 sober members of AA who wrote the AA 'Big Book' .. not Bill Wilson. The 'First 100' actually served to edit, censor, & to amend a good many of BW's original self-penned writings, & converted them into what they regarded as a more absorbable interpretation of what BW was trying to promulgate. That, my friend, is precisely WHY the term " WE" is used thru'out the Big Book, & not "I, Bill Wilson". Your treatise is all crock-shit ...
colindominy 2 months ago 2
@colindominy OK, his underlings helped edit the work. He just stole the copyright. Mike BD
blamethenile 2 months ago
Did Charlie Sheen post this? LOL.
sea12gull 3 months ago
@blamethenile You have. Thank you for that!
MrMcIntyre78 3 months ago
@blamethenile lol...
MrMcIntyre78 3 months ago
@MrMcIntyre78 Glad to have put a smile on your face. Mike BD
blamethenile 3 months ago 3
@blamethenile I have no resentment. Just a curiosity as to why you feel the way you do.
MrMcIntyre78 3 months ago
@MrMcIntyre78 Whilst I, otoh, know exactly why you feel the way you do. Mike BD
blamethenile 3 months ago
@blamethenile As a matter of fact yes I have. I begin each day by doing a gratitude list. Thank you for caring though!
MrMcIntyre78 3 months ago
@MrMcIntyre78 Good, very good. Now, since you clearly have a resentment regarding this channel, perhaps you should pray for good things for us for the next 30 days. Mike BD
blamethenile 3 months ago
@blamethenile Lmao! Why is a program that helps people no matter what the numbers are such a problem for you?
MrMcIntyre78 3 months ago
@MrMcIntyre78 You seem disturbed. Have you read page 417 lately, or done a gratitude list? Mike BD
blamethenile 3 months ago 2
@blamethenile I can not understand what your saying this film is very disturbing to me this is my way of life your twisting
RHONDA6256 2 months ago
@RHONDA6256 I'm not sure why you would watch videos which you find upsetting. Perhaps if you changed the channel... Mike BD
blamethenile 2 months ago
@MrMcIntyre78 thats what i say
RHONDA6256 2 months ago
@blamethenile that only helps prove my point! I am not nor do I wish to be a spokesman for A.A. I am only a grateful member.
MrMcIntyre78 3 months ago
@MrMcIntyre78 Your point is that AA sells millions of bigbooks? OK, your point is correct. Mike BD
blamethenile 3 months ago
I obviously can't quite an exact number, but the big book of alcoholics anonomous has sold over 3 million copys world wide!
MrMcIntyre78 3 months ago
@MrMcIntyre78 They have sold that many in the past four years. If you are going to represent yourself as a 12-step spokesperson, you should get your numbers straight. Mike BD
blamethenile 3 months ago
You can discredit Bill W. all you want. Alcoholics anonomous and its 12 steps have saved millions of otherwise hopeless alcoholics myself included! Bill may have been everything described in this video, but the book he wrote and the guidelines he set down have been helping people for over 75 years!
MrMcIntyre78 3 months ago
@MrMcIntyre78 Millions? Seems a bit high. Mike BD
blamethenile 3 months ago
@blamethenile no no i think they got it right. I am sure millions.
RHONDA6256 2 months ago
@RHONDA6256 Sources? Mike BD
blamethenile 2 months ago
So? So what? Bill W. was a schmuck.
AA isn't a cult of personality - it's a program of surrender to "God," figuring out who you've wronged, fixing as much of that past damage as possible and then going forward with your own life, trying not to mess up, but taking responsibility for your mess-ups and cleaning up after yourself. Somehow this is big, bad and evil? Get a grip.
Megamomster 3 months ago
@Megamomster Of all the descriptors which come to mind, "schmuck" isn't one of them. Kool-ade salesman, huckster, flim-flam artist, con man, and chiseler, perhaps, but not schmuck. Enjoy the rest of our vids. Mike
blamethenile 3 months ago 4
@blamethenile Thank you for your interpretation of Bill I am sure he would not mind. It would hurt like it hurts me that you say it. but he would rather be called that than what he was gonna be called had he not got sober. I feel for your ignorance. You are the one in denial. If you dont want help and clearly you need it do not shoot the messenger.
RHONDA6256 2 months ago
@RHONDA6256 See also our videos on confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. Calling people with whom you disagree ignorant does nothing to prove whatever point you have in mind. Denial of what, precisely? Mike BD
blamethenile 2 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 What do u think caused you to decide to have faith in yourself....that didnt just magically happen
tgeorge137 4 months ago
@tgeorge137 What do you think happened? Mike BD
blamethenile 4 months ago 2
@tgeorge137 The AA magic fairy? Mike
blamethenile 4 months ago 3
@tgeorge137 said "What do u think caused you to decide to have faith in yourself....that didnt just magically happen"
No magic involved. I saw that almost all were dropping out of AA, and I started meeting people who had left the program and were sober and happy.
They were spending their time building new lives, rather than wallowing in their unhappiness.
I made the conscious decision to join them.
ndrthrdr1 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I am 17+ years sober at this moment. I know a man who has 63 years of recovery and knew Bill and Bob personally. In his words Bill was a shyster lawyer backstabbing business man and an adulteress his entire recovery which Mr.Lenos often questioned. I believe my friend. However no matter what he was or how he acted if it were not for his struggles there would not be AA and we would all be in a world of shit...
2blew4U 4 months ago
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2blew4U 4 months ago
I found success when I decided to have faith in myself instead of any external "Higher Power" and broke the AA meeting habit.
Powerless? Not even close.
ndrthrdr1 4 months ago
AA saved my life!!!!!
dogcat126 5 months ago
If indeed that was factual, and I am not agreeing nor disagreeing on its factualness, I find it interesting that the preponderance of evidence was typed words in a homemade video with some creative score put to it. Where are the actual letters? Why no pictures? How about a recorded voice stating the very things that were typed?No , all I saw was a homemade video that some person typed these statements of fact from a letter that is never shown, by a person that isn't interviewed. Fact? Fiction?
ddmorris1971 5 months ago
@ddmorris1971 We can't post direct links here, but photos are avaliable on the net, with one at the Orange Papers. Go there and search Henrietta Seiberling. Mike
blamethenile 5 months ago 2
I have a feeling all of this on here is taken completely out of context. I worry that you are litteraly killing people by making this.
ATLBoy1229 5 months ago
@ATLBoy1229 We present the information available as objectively and honestly as we can. How the audience takes it is up to them. Mike BD
blamethenile 5 months ago 2
Bill admitted ln his later years you must leave all of your addictions, including going to meetings as a substitute. Calling oneself alcoholic and powerless on a regular basis will make it true, no mater what else you may try to do. There is a way, one step beyond the 12. The Thirteenth Step. watch the video of the same name, get the book on amazon, the best $12 u will ever spend, and get totally free and powerful, as you are meant to be
NativeSonPublishers 5 months ago
It truely amazes me how hard you try to discredit aa,and it hurts my heart to think that some vulnerable addict/alcoholic might actualy believe this . Though i dont approve of your message i do accept you for who you are and hope that you find some serenity and peace of mind in your life. but please, please...try to focus on truely helping others w/ addiction/alcoholism. GOD Bless;)
mccune84 5 months ago 2
@mccune84 We really don't have to work very hard, since AA's outcomes and methods are becoming more well-known, thanks to the internet. We do focus on helping others, exposing the false solution which is AA. Mike BD
blamethenile 5 months ago
AA is a brotherhood, but what nonalcholics don't and never really will understand is that we are brothers in our defects not our virtues. Thats why AA works. For most of you, don't try to understand it.
curio1020 6 months ago 2
@curio1020 You reckon there are many "nonalcoholics" hereabouts? Mike BD
blamethenile 6 months ago
@blamethenile I reckon that there are alot of people who need something better to worry about. Your video really didn't make much sence and anyone who's been in AA long enough understands Bill W's faults, we actually get a kick out it because it reminds of ourselves. I don't know what your motives or reasons are, I can speculate but I really don't care. Do whatever you feel you need to
curio1020 6 months ago 2
@curio1020 Thanks for stopping by. Mike BD
blamethenile 6 months ago
I don't care about Bill W. I just know this program works.
ragiovanni 6 months ago
@ragiovanni Sorry to have troubled you with facts. Carry on. Mike BD
blamethenile 6 months ago
@blamethenile not at all, keep using my friend.
ragiovanni 4 months ago
@ragiovanni When have I ever used your friend? Mike BD
blamethenile 4 months ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
@blamethenile haha you have mental issues.
ragiovanni 4 months ago
Once I recognized my drunkeness and blow and nicotine habits were just my willful desire to sin repeatedly, I confessed to to JESUS, and I got delivered on the spot. The reason 12 step doesn't work is because it in correctly classifies the problem. It cannot be a disease, addiction, allergy, or behavioral all at the same time. I mean come on pick one. The reason it cant be defined medically is because it is a curse.
AschersOil 6 months ago
@AschersOil ..you have just summed up religon. ..you pick one.
euroman32589 3 months ago
@euroman32589 Im glad someone finally got my point.
AschersOil 3 months ago
Regardless, AA has been proven to work for many, and some did not benefit. Its a complex "disorder" with a complex origin, you can imagine picking the "correct" treatment wouldn't be easy... im just saying
Tussinprofessor 7 months ago
Anytime someone is doing something positve and helping people there will be people who look for and point out some of their shortcomimgs as a means to put down everything they do. As long as the ties that bind us together are stronger than those that would tear us apart, all will be well
mustaffa1611 8 months ago
@mustaffa1611 Spoken like a true cult member.
ndrthrdr1 7 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 12 step groups and religions dont use any force, they are voluntary. Governments are people who are using threats and violence to force people to pay for their services. Taxes are not voluntary. Its pay or else. Normal people provide their services in the free market without using violence. Citizens are cult members. They support the violence used against them just like Battered wife syndrome. Then they go vote in secret for more violence. Who's the cult member?
mustaffa1611 7 months ago
@mustaffa1611 Cults generally don't need to use force. They get people who are vulnerable and impressionable, and use the foot-in-the-door technique, love bombing, thought-stopping cliches, carrot/stick, dogma, etc. They paint a rosy picture of a wonderful future with the cult vs. a scary and certain demise without the cult. Study up on Scientology, for example, and compare their techniques to the AA "program." If you can't see similarities, you've been misled, or actually indoctrinated.
ndrthrdr1 7 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 Ive heard stories of scientology stealing peoples money and using lawyers to threaten and steal from people. Anytime a lawyer is involves then threats and violence are involved. All courts do business behind the barrel of a gun..... So what specifically about 12 steps programs bother you?
mustaffa1611 7 months ago
@mustaffa1611 "So what specifically about 12 steps programs bother you?"
Learned helplessness, faith healing, and the implanting of the idea that leaving the cult virtually guarantees failure at abstinence - and death.
ndrthrdr1 7 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 There are support groups for everything from cancer patients to domestic abuse to addiction... and you have a problem with that. The power of prayer and meditation has been overly documented to help people heal from just about everything. Many a person has died related to substance abuse, we here of dui's and overdoses everyday. Maybe focus at all the prohibition laws where masked swat teams are raiding homes and destroying families and stealing property in the name of freedom.
mustaffa1611 7 months ago
@mustaffa1611 No problem with support groups, just with groups recruiting the vulnerable into magical thinking. Google heart patient prayer study. Other support groups (like SMART Recovery) are science-based, not faith-based. Real solutions for real problems.
ndrthrdr1 7 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 Science based? We were just laughing about people who use the word "science" all the time. Whatever definition or concept of science you have is purely subjective? No two people have the same understanding of the word "science?" "Science" is one of those words that is branded with emotional attachments. When people use words with purely subjective definitions it makes communication rather difficult until those terms are clearly agreed upon by both parties.
mustaffa1611 7 months ago
@mustaffa1611 Science:
1.a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws\
2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
"We were just laughing ..." Was that "we" a group of people who believe that they have invisible superfriends who have magical powers?
ndrthrdr1 7 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 Everytime science says one thing then another scientist says something else. So called science has said so many different pharmaceuticals are helpful and then they are always taken off the market in a couple years after making everyone sick. Tesla proved we could all have free electricity by tapping into gravitational pull yet new "science" says that isnt true. Science also says GMO food is safe yet it breaks down into alien amino acids and causes new weird cancers. Science haha
mustaffa1611 7 months ago
Comment removed
ndrthrdr1 7 months ago
@mustaffa1611 No wonder you removed your comment. Heres my sources for all the pharmaceuticals that were once approved by science not disproved by science. Mercola dot com. You want another 50 examples were "science" contradicts itself all the time. Your god of 'science' is so whacked out, that you did the best thing by running away. Its best to hold on to your dogmatic beliefs than to face the truth.
mustaffa1611 7 months ago
@mustaffa1611 "Science based? We were just laughing about people who use the word "science" all the time."
This "we" sounds like a real think tank. Can other people see them, or is it just you?
dimefeet 6 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 It always amazes me how some people are to smart to get what A.A. is? I have no clue to anything or where you came up with any of these things except one. Faith! When did faith become a bad thing? I think when you became to smart to believe in anything other than you're wisdom. I am helpless against anyone's actions but my own. Who do you know that s not? It's not any one person that recovers from alcoholism it is many. So it is with other methods. There is no 100% any where.
mamasboy815 7 months ago
@mamasboy815 "I am helpless against anyone's actions but my own."
No, you're not. By promoting the AA cult, you are affecting people's opinions, which affects the behavior of some of them. You're just spouting AA dogma. You're indoctrinated by the cult.
dimefeet 6 months ago
@dimefeet I'm glad you can control another person? Maybe you could start a cult of you're own?
mamasboy815 6 months ago
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@mamasboy815 posted this comment:
I'm glad you can control another person? Maybe you could start a cult of you're own?
What are you talking about? Are you still messed up on alcohol or some other drugs, or are you messed up on the cult? Your comment makes no sense at all.
dimefeet 6 months ago
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@mamasboy815 "Faith! When did faith become a bad thing?"
Faith is accepting things as true without supporting evidence or in spite of refuting evidence.
Faith has always been a bad thing.
dimefeet 6 months ago
being an aa member u can see bills ego at work in the bb and yes i do believe he was a great manipulator look at the way he got the 12 traditions passed but no matter what his message and many other aa's have saved lives mine including so no matter what his work was good and still is
lucbil2003 8 months ago
@lucbil2003 I started going to AA because I thought it was a support group. It turned out to be a cult-like organization based on faith healing. They told me I was powerless over alcohol. Odd, considering that I had already demonstrated a measure of power over my drinking problem by deciding to quit, finding a meeting place, investigating their meeting schedule, arranging transportation, attending meetings, and using willpower to stay sober. I left AA when I found SMARTRecovery. Far better.
ndrthrdr1 8 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 i quit many tlimes sometimes for an hour sometimes for 2 hrs but i never surrendered till i found aa have not had to drink for 81/2 yrs so cult or faith healing it works for me but i do knoww aa is not for all so use what works for u but dont put down a program that has saved many lives gl to u and what ever smart recovery is i dont know what it is never heard of itso i wont put it down but if it works for u use it gl and keep it simple
lucbil2003 8 months ago
@lucbil2003 I was a member of AA and was very hurt by aa so I have every damn right to put it down if I want. And why don't you look at the facts about who AA helps and how successful it really is. You are in denial about the truth of AA.
passionitliberal 7 months ago
blamethenile shouldn't that be Blame / Denial?
urbwoerman 8 months ago
@urbwoerman Nope, all one word. Mikeblamedenial
blamethenile 8 months ago 3
didnt know this many ppl hate AA guess im nieve, Im an AA member; if that letter is true or not doesnt matter what Bill said or did doesn't matter hes human like all of you who made mistakes, its not a defense its reality the message i recieved from AA lead me back church by my own choice not theirs I have a relationship with god I never new I wanted call me weak minded i dont care the point is bill put in writing something if nothing else that allowed me and others 2 love god as hes loved me
Serrenity1986 8 months ago
@Serrenity1986 It doesn't matter, and you don't care. Got it. Thanks for the post. Mike BD
blamethenile 8 months ago 3
This video isn't that impressive. Big deal - Old lady spread some bitter gossip about a man she didn't like. Shocker. My grandmother does that on a daily basis.
Sad that Blame The Nile feels the need to be salacious and destructive. I wonder if this same energy and creativity couldn't be put to better use.
foldendiaz 9 months ago
@foldendiaz Merely a presentation of the facts as they were laid out to us. Do with them as you will. Mike BD
blamethenile 8 months ago 2
In all of human history there has never been born a man that could not be criticized by someone. No prophet, saint, leader, genius, or any other manner of man.
Who has ever put forward the idea that Bill W. was perfect? Who denies that his efforts have helped many many people? Isn't that good enough, or do we demand perfection from someone before their work becomes meaningful?
crawlinjohn 9 months ago
@crawlinjohn Just presenting facts which came to our attention. How people interpret is up to them. Mike BD
blamethenile 9 months ago
While AA members are busy "working the steps" to supposedly fix their wrongdoings, ppl outside of AA are doing that on a minute to minute basis. Working the steps can sometimes take the aa member years and even then their so called amends are often never made under the loopholes provided (when it harms self or others). But I guess that is the way it goes in a masonic created cult. Fake it until you make it.
beautifulmind546 9 months ago
One of the ways AA continues to attract members is that it enables manipulation and actually models and encourages it. If feel this probably stems from it's masoci roots. The aa member can be an abusive ass on a regular basis while also doing charitable acts and then point to those acts to prove that they are more spiritual than the "normy". It's manipulative and deceitful. Bill W and Dr Bob were both classic manipulators and that is prevelant in the aa cult as a whole.
beautifulmind546 9 months ago
One only has to know a handful of ppl in AA to know how the majority of them are going to behave. They are going to manipulate, deny and avoid any responsibility at all costs. They are going to mock and shame anyone who points out this reality. They are going to narcisistically see themsellves as superior to anyone who doesn't subscribe to their cult. And they are going to reject anyone and anything that does not validate their BS on a daily basis. That's aa tactics in a nutshell.
beautifulmind546 9 months ago
@beautifulmind546 Ha.you're very funny and dramtic.I don't care what you think of AA..obviously you have a resentment towards it because of your experience. All sorts of people hate all sorts things because of different experiences. I had an argument with a neo nazi on a different thread that claimed I was brianwashed as well because I didn't believe we were being controlled by ZOG(look it up).I'm donw with this conversation..I just wanted to show you that people can be successful in AA.Be well.
workingclass75 9 months ago
@workingclass75 Of course people can be successful and be in AA but that does not automatically mean they are successful because they are in AA. Good luck and take care. B l A m E
blamethenile 9 months ago
I guess this is what comes from putting a cult in place of real authentic healing. The members pat themselves on the backs for doing things the rest of us do everyday and get to pretend that their abuse and violence as well as the denial of it is due to their nonexistent disease. AA, being created by a freemason dr. bob I guess is just another refelction of the culture of selfcentered narcisism. AA members will pray for us just as the other religions destroying this planet and humanitywhatawaste
beautifulmind546 9 months ago
It's so rad that this thread of comments is filled with the most brilliant people in the world. They are here to save us slaves from the evils of mind control. And they call Bill W. egomanical.
workingclass75 9 months ago
People get sober in AA. It saves life. As an ex hater of AA..I know how you feel. It's easy to get really wrapped up in what you think you should control and what other people should do and know. I love to control my world and tell people what to do.Hate what you want..it's none of my business. But if you think it's so important for people to know this information...look at yourself and your motives for control.
workingclass75 9 months ago
@workingclass75 We love it when people tell us how we feel, even when they are wrong. Thanks, Mike BD
blamethenile 9 months ago
@blamethenile You are very sadly typical Mike. As am I. Makes it easy to see. Hope all is well.
workingclass75 9 months ago
@workingclass75 Things are great, thanks. Mike BD
blamethenile 9 months ago
This video is presented by an obvious A.A. hater. If A,A, bothers one so much, then they so just leave it alone and move on. A.A. is for people who want it.
Lassen2O 9 months ago
@Lassen2O Heck, we love AA. If you don't believe me, watch our other vids. Mike BD
blamethenile 9 months ago
I have been to plenty of groups that call themselves AA that arnt doing AA as described in the basic text. The Courts sentence people to AA against our tradition of attraction rather than promotion. But there is real AA which is sometimes hard to find...true freedom is in the application of the steps. Even if Bill W murdered someone it dosnt matter. He was a member not our president or someone we worship...He was human, like you and capable of making bad decisions.
Brycelayne 10 months ago
@Brycelayne Where, precisely, does one find the "real AA", where groups don't happily act as agents of the courts?
blamethenile 10 months ago
@Brycelayne True freedom is taking personal responsibility in your choices and being free from a cult. You can make amends for your past behavior on your own, you can make better choices on your own. It absolutely does and would matter if Wilson killed another person. As it was, he preached spirituality while he was a complete criminal and philanderer, made the lives of his family members miserable. He was also capable of making better decisions and instead chose to abuse and lie.
beautifulmind546 9 months ago
So, were Henrietta and Dr. Bob involved with the freemasons? There seems to be some speech in this letter that would indicate so - "children of the light" hmm?
beautifulmind546 10 months ago
@beautifulmind546 Dr. Bob definitely was a Mason. Henrietta definitely was not. Mike BD
blamethenile 10 months ago
@blamethenile Thanks for the confirmation. I suspected either Bill or Bob was. Makes sense Bob was a mason. The AA symbol, the belief in a HP as one of the twelve steps and a program that basically keeps people disempowered, brainwashed, the blind leading the blind... leave it to a freemason to design such a program gaurenteed to keep ppl on the cusp of true recovery and healing in a state of cult following and narcisism. "children of light" = luciferian slavery. AA members are basically slaves
beautifulmind546 10 months ago
@beautifulmind546 I go to two meetings a week, call my sponsor when I have an AA related question, but the majority of my life(including my girlfriend)are folks not in the program and I don't believe in God(in your concept of God).Without that I wasn't able to go a couple days without hard drinking.Abstinence is not enough for a lot of people.I have been able to keep my job, stay out of the violence that has plagued my life(and yours if you were nearby),and be a great father.Am I a Slave?
workingclass75 9 months ago
@workingclass75 Yes you are a slave. You have given up your responsibility and willpower to a cult. You actually ARE able to go without being a drunk or violent person. You have always had a choice. You made the choice when you went to AA except you allowed them to make you believe that it could not be done without them. A willing slave. My concept of God? How do you know what my concept of god is? Does AA teach you about making ASSumptions? Guess not..
beautifulmind546 9 months ago
@beautifulmind546 My HP is a very personal choice and my spiritual path frees me from calling people terms like slave and brainwashed.Do you feel that others with emotional diseases(biopolar,depression,eds)can just stop one day if they are willing? Or if it's in the realm of posibilty that you don't know everything about everyone and people may need help and a program that you may view as "weak" may help people?There is a difference between being weak and admitting you have a problem.
workingclass75 9 months ago
@workingclass75 there is no such thing as 'emotional disease nor mental illness' Those ppl are just different thinkers that have been controlled by another faulty system and frankly alcoholism and being a drunk is nothing like those who think differently. You have always had the CHOICE to not drink, not be violent but yes, you are WEAK and you blame it on a non existent disease. You don't even think differently, you just DONT THINK or feel. your modus operandi is to escape at all costs.
beautifulmind546 9 months ago
@workingclass75 There is also a difference between admitting you have a problem and truly owning it. When you are a member of AA you do not do that as the program enables you to blame it on your nonexistent disease. Do you know what you have made your HP? The cult of AA is your real HP when your real HP should be yourself.
beautifulmind546 9 months ago
@beautifulmind546 Nonexistent disease. I should be myself..You are funny. Are you basing this on the fact that you feel complete control of your world so others couldn't possibly have any affliction that could cause them to make choices that destructive? Is it difficult being the all knower and watching the world writhe in your idea of stupidity all the time? Do you hang out with tom Cruise and berate people on A.D.s?
workingclass75 9 months ago
@workingclass75 I don't know why I bother to argue with brainwashed ppl. You don't get it, I don't feel I have complete control over my world on the contrary. But unlike you I don't run and hide in a bottle or join a cult so that I won't have to own my choices. Most of the world understands this but AA enables you to keep telling yourself this lie that everything you did as a drunk was not your fault, not your choice. YOU CHOSE to be destructive, no 'affliction' made you do anything you did
beautifulmind546 9 months ago
@beautifulmind546 So...you are basing this on the fact that since you don't hide in a bottle or join a cult that others should behave exactly like you?And yes all the things I did when I was drunk is blood on my hands and up to me to change it. AA is very clear on that.And I am changing in a way that works for me..sorry that you don't/can't understand that and feel the need to attack people and call them names.Do you believe in bipolar or OCD or depression?Oh wise one. :)
workingclass75 9 months ago
@workingclass75 bipolar, OCD and depression are labels that were made up by psych to sell drugs. Let me guess - you have these 'diseases' and are medicating for them. How to explain to a person who has avoided responsibility their entire life including during psuedo recovery that they have allowed themselves to be brainwashed in so many ways? Many ppl don't choose the destruction you choose, many don't choose to believe they are diseased when they are not. Many choose responsibility
beautifulmind546 9 months ago
@beautifulmind546 ohhhh..internet conspiracy theorist. And I'm the one who's brain washed. What you really haven't answered for me is who the hell are you to judge other people and what they personally need?For a person so hell bent on people being"freed" you certainly are spending a lot of effort trying to convince them of your theroy.And no I do not suffer from any of those afflictions...but that doesn't mean I think I know so much about everything there is that I can say they don't exist.
workingclass75 9 months ago
@workingclass75 Who am I? I am someone who lived through years of abuse and neglect at the hands of escape artisits like yourself. Through all of it, all I wanted was to heal my family and I hoped AA would help with that. All it has done has torn the family further apart. That is who the hell I am. And psych abuse is not an internet conspiracy. it is as much a fact as AA being a full fledged cult.
beautifulmind546 9 months ago
@beautifulmind546 I am sorry that you have had those experiences..improperly treated drunks are nearly impossible to deal with..trust me I've been one.And if someone is "escaping" his or her responisbilites and blaming it on being a drunk they aren't truly working the program.Accountability is the crux of the whole deal.I no longer blame cops for pulling me over,I no longer blame bartenders for overserving..etc..I no longer let hate drive my choices.I'm happy and you're not.Just sayin..
workingclass75 9 months ago
@beautifulmind546 Life may not always be fair or right..but it's only up to us to make the choices for ourselves. Blaming people and institutions is rarely going to make things better for ourselves. AA is nothing more than a philosphy..the people in it are who they are. Some good some bad..just like anything else. Trying to fit people into your expectations will lead to nothing more than anger. Believe that.
workingclass75 9 months ago
@workingclass75 People and institutions need to be held accountable for the lives they destroy. AA is a cult and the ppl who follow it are irresponsible. We all should be able to expect some things, things like to know we aren't going to be abused or manipulated, we should expect accountability and responsibility. The AA mind control 'no expectations' BS was designed to avoid accountability and responsibility and to keep you lemmings "commin back"
beautifulmind546 9 months ago
@beautifulmind546 First of all calling it a cult doesn't bother me.You can quit trying to gain leverage with that term.Is Buddhism a cult too?And because of your percieved bad experience everyone involved with AA is terrible?Sorry AA didn't come and save your family. And people "should be held responsible".You are very dramatic.This conversation is going nowhere.The spite and resentment you are hung up on is sad.I hope someday you can find it in your heart to live and let live.I'll pray for you.
workingclass75 9 months ago