Capt Jack Harkness & Martha Jones in Last of the Time Lords

[3000agape]

Everytime I see that goodbye between Martha and The Doctor at the conclusion of "The Last of the Timelords" I am struck by the poignancy of the moment, and the lost opportunity that could have been Martha & Ten together.

[kellylouise11]

@ArwinUndomiel That would be awesome x (Freema & Matt)

[shahoney]

I don't understand the hate on Martha Jones. She did a LOT to help The Doctor. She was an amazing, kind, understanding companion who didn't expect anything in return (unlike *cough* Rose)... if anything, she's the 2nd best female companion. Donna is my most favorite because she makes me laugh :) River is my 3rd most favorite.

Rose and Amy are not at all in my list. LOL. I hate them both.

[TheMikaylaJane]

Thumbs Up If You Think Captain Sexy oh I mean Jack Looks Good With A Dirty Face ;)

[TheSinkingtruck]

Jack in chains

[JamesOhGoodie]

Am I the only one who thinks that Martha's mum looks like Joe Jackson? (AKA Michael Jackson's father?)

[Uberdoctorwhofan1]

Why are there so many versions of this eppasode? It dosent make cence!

[lolablack1072]

i can't understand how ppl can say that donna was the one who picked up the Master's ring. His wife was the only one with red painted fingernails. I don't ever remember seeing Donna with nail polish, and anyways, she wasn't even there when Martha was the Doctor's companion. It must be the Master's wife. And how would Donna get the ring anyway. That part of the plot is quite sketchy.

[Jallorn]

We should find out for christmas.

[lolablack1072]

i guess so, but I think Donna should survive and she and martha should have their own series where they fight the alien baddies together.

[Meangrl19]

@lolablack1072 I'd love to see something like that! Actually, I've been hoping that Freema would get her own spinoff series and she could be in the spotlight for once as Martha. I also was hoping that people could guest star on her show. Like Rose Tyler and 10.5(Billie and David), Donna(Catherine), Jack(John Barrowman), ext... I wanted John Simm to be Freema's co star too. I know that sounds weird, but I was really looking forward to seeing them together again on the End of Time and I didn't

[Meangrl19]

@lolablack1072 get to. So I am determinded to see them together again and if I'm wishing for far fetched stuff to happen, I'd love it if Freema Agyeman and John Simm had a tv show together with them playing Martha and the Master. I love your idea too though. I'd love to see Donna and Martha working together again.

[211lovely]

jack is the face of boe lololol

[LittleTeaPot1]

it would've been awesome if Martha found the Torchwood crew, and we saw them saying Doctor.

but they might not even be still alive...=/

[Jinx903]

why did they chain jack up like that?

[Kerriangel]

they never say. Probably he ket trying to escape and shotting the armed gaurds or something.

[doctorwhotorchwood90]

i think they chained him up like that cause he can't die so he has NO fear so he would just run about killing the gaurds and such like

[Jallorn]

'cause he's immortal

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

And that comment by John, about gay men may be true about him, but I know Gay men who think very differently -- they are faithful and expect their partners to be.

[cheeseries]

u know the doctor hates people soluting,

JACK SOLUTES HIM AND MARTHA and the doctor just smiles

lol

[foritalll]

haha, i love how the doctor and martha are both smiling at jack while he tells hiim the story, and then he sez "the face of boe they used to call me" and both of their jaws just DROP like, oh.....my.....GOD!!!!!!!! hi-la-ri-ous

[queenastilon]

Sorry to reply to such an old comment (to save you looking it up, you said that John Barrowman looks nice roughed up, under a vid of Jack, Martha and the Doc in Last ot Time Lords).

SO agree. I wondered if there was something wrong with me (:D) for liking him all dirty like that.

And is it just me who thinks it's hugely sexy the way he closes his eyes and says "Doctor!" ...?

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

I hope not. You know the bloke who portrays Norrington in PIrates. I thought he looked as bland as a man could look until The second movie when he had a beard and looked all scruffy. I find that look, hairy face, a little sweat, more appealing -- just think of putting all that in a hot shower, and l like a bit of beard -- not full beard but the five o'clock shadow is sexy to me.

[queenastilon]

Sorry, I don't know Norrington.. is that the Carribean movies?

But just look at what a bit of designer stubble did for dear Wesley!

I do like actual beards as well, on some men. When my boyfriend has some shadow stubble I love it, even if it does sandpaper my face a bit. And, er, other parts.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Yup. Norrignton and Will both vy for Elizabeth's attention.

Ah-ha, I see our minds are running along the same lines about the benefits of a five o'clock shadow.

[queenastilon]

Ok. Sorry, but I don't know those Pirates characters. I did see at least two of the films but couldn't really get into them. (shrugs).

Getting back to dirty John Barrowman in chains (if only!), it does strike me as odd that someone's clearly been shaving him and cutting/straightening his hair for the year he's been chained up there, but didn't wash his face ;)

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Noted that too, did you. I'm thinking Tish probably clean him up then the Master had him killed and roughed up. I think it's because Jack supposedly always smells nice -- he's from the 51st century so he was different before the Goddess Rose did her thing.

[TheCastellan]

And somehow, his body did not atrophy being in chains for a year. Maybe Martha's mom or someone took care of him.

[queenastilon]

"...took care of him...", TheCastellan? Is that a euphemism?

Gave him a regular seeing-to, did they?

I must get my mind out of this gutter... sometime really soon.

[TheCastellan]

Bwahaha. XD

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

We agree about the racism but I don't think Joan is seen as a better person than Martha. John Smith is a product of the racist generation of 1913. But the Doctor designed John Smith. Martha trusted him, took on a low station to accomadate his plans. He abused her trust by making a place of comfort for himself and drudgery for her. He never apologizes to Martha for John's treatment of her. She has to rise above it all, but he can plead- 'it wasn't me'. The Doctor doesn't have to Grow.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Racism in 1913 was not Martha's problem. The Doctor chose the time and place. He made certain he was comfortable and had status, but not Martha. Even his Lady love puts Martha down. The Doctor acts as her Master, not her partner. The script failed by not having the Doctor acknowlege his failure to protect her. He just says thank you and she gets a pat on the head. Martha forgives him, but he does not acknowledge the fact that it was his choice to put her in that hostile place.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

I can't agree. Basically Francine was right: Martha did almost lose her life following the Doctor and the Doctor did hurt Martha. Of course, there was nothing she could do once Martha made up her mind to follow the Doctor, but although Martha admits to being a better person because of the trips, she in the long run agreed with her mother and doesn't want to go back to the Doctor.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Part Two: The reason Martha is better off and in my opinion with Jack and Tom is because they share not only her passion to serve or help Mankind, but they have stamina and heart to see things through beyond the Mighty Mouse moments of sweeping in to save the day and riding off in the sunset or to second star to right. One of the most lovely things about Jack is that he doesn't forget the people in his long life... he has that shelter for trauma victims.

[YoodellyHoo]

I'm pretty glad that Francine didn't try to shoot the Master because she'd probably miss... that would be embarrassing.

[daftvampire16]

She would have hit Jack.

[Lucille7777]

How could he just let her go?

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

The Doctor didn't as Jack does, fancy Martha. Jack treats Martha as an equal, not a child. Letting Martha go was the right thing to do. It was time for her to resume the life she had forged through hard work and study for herself before she met him. I was dissapointed the writers didn't emphasize this angle. With Susan and Ace, although he loved their adventures together The Doctor knew they were better off out in the world doing what they do best. He knew this about Martha too.

[Lucille7777]

Bobsyermomsuncle,

Is the Dr. demaged from being the last Timelord, and all that he's experienced? The Doc pursues Martha, but he really doesn't want her, but the audience should think that's funny?.

The Dr. already knew that Martha's family was begging her not to go with him, and he tried to bluff in denial, but after Martha gave him the bad news perhaps then he decided not to put up a fuss and let her go, but that was not his first concern when she return to the TARDIS.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Davis wanted to show the audience the Doctor is alien and insensitive in rejecting Martha, and that works for those new to Doctor Who. But the Doctor in the old series would acknowledge that as a Doctor, Martha's gifts could not be closeted on the Tardis. It would have been selfish for the Doctor -- in the old series -- who sees himself as a "friend" to mankind to keep a gifted healier on the Tardis instead of allowing her to fulfill her vocation on Earth.

[Lucille7777]

We're attributing all kinds of characteristics, both cynical and noble to the Dr.s treatment of Martha when in fact the show never committed to the interracial relationship. The insults and Martha being a maid in Human Nature and Blood Family episodes was just typical racist fair. The Doc even betrayed Martha further by offering her place to yet another White woman (the Matron), while he supposedly was still in love with Rose. It implied that any White woman was better than Martha.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Well, as the Doctor was supposedly an alien, the show was probably hoping to avoid any issue of race -- that is that the Doctor ignored Martha because she was black. We were supposed to understand that Doctor couldn't see Martha because he was still blinded by his love of Rose. But I agree that in Family episode, John Smith behaved with the same mentality white Brits of 1913 showed toward the people whose countries they had colonized. Martha had to deal with the racism and rise above it.

[Lucille7777]

To Bobsyermomsuncle,

Ugh, the Doctor was completely miserable in that episode. It has greatly affected my opinion of that character and its not good.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Which gets us back to lovely Jack who knew he should say "Sorry" to Chantho. And It seems the Jones consider Jack family, from the exchange he and Martha have. They were locked up together and had time to bond.

[queenastilon]

I don't think Jack especially fancies her. He flirts when he first sees her but no more. He wants the Doctor but can't have him. He notices that Martha wants the Doc at least as much as he does.

When she comes to TW he's decidedly uncomfortable when she kisses him.

I don't know that the 'Martha's study shouldn't go to waste' angle wasn't emphasized. Don't ask me how but I was left with that very impression. Maybe that was just wishful thinking from me because I agree with you about that.

[queenastilon]

On reflection, I think the reason Jack is not thrilled/turned on by Martha's kiss in Torchwood is because the writers already knew they were going to add her to the team later, and they didn't want yet another sexual focus for him.

At least not right away... one never knows with Jack.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Actually just before Martha visit Torchwood John Barrowman in explaining his character's relationship with Martha says specifically "Jack fancies Martha" -- he explained that he liked the way she stood up to the Doctor in Last of the Time Lords and the Master at the end.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Actually he looked as if he was questioning her. According to John, although Jack -- at that time -- is open to all sex, he takes sex with women a little more seriously. He would not start a casual relationship with Martha -- it would have to be a committment, (I don't understand why John thinks Jack would make this difference but Jack is his character) and there is that fiancee -- Jack would want to know what 's really going on with Tom. Make sense?

[queenastilon]

Sorry, Bobsyer, I didn't see your replies here till I scrolled down (you must have clicked on someone not me to reply). I didn't know JB said Jack fancied Martha, or said Jack takes sex with women more seriously (strange indeed). That adds weight to the theory that he's having fun with Ianto for the now (asked him out when he found out Gwen was engaged); a bummer for Janto shippers who see Ianto as Jack's true love and Gwen as slutty distraction. JB also said that Jack/Gwen is a 'slow burn'.

[queenastilon]

When Jonathon Ross asked if men in gay relationships consider occasional dalliences ok, Mr Barrowman said "Well yeah but you don't TELL people about it!"

So yes, if Jack takes sex with women more seriously, then Martha having a fiancee would make him uncomfortable.

As far as sex and love go he is certainly, as one fanfic writer put it, not interested in coming between people and "all about the happy".

In any case, I feel I should bow to your evidently far superior knowledge :)

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Keep your head up, cause I don't have any more knowledge than you -- I just read a lot of blogs and listen to interviews. I think Jack started out as causual with Ianto, but the relationship is supposed to grow deeper in the new special -- with Jack perhaps making a committment to his and Ianto relationship.

But I would agree, Jack would respect Martha's fiancee, and Martha.

[halfbreed1426]

i still cant bileve that jack is the face of boe, and the only bad thing about this episode is the purpole background lighting, it just makes me go "arahhhhhh!" but it is a fantastic ep

[TheCastellan]

Same here, I think it's more of an in joke or something. Why would he become a big, ugly face...and one that can't score, either....I'm sure Jack would rather find a way to kill himself, first. XD

[Soccer8Gerrard]

Cap Jack so awsome when he has a gun!!

[solitaryscientist]

John Barrowman ALWAYS looks nice. :D

[RoguePlanet]

I always got a laugh out of one of the Master's final lines, right after he gets shot..."It's always the women."

[Relicanth]

Amen!

[JAVA4DIVA]

Still get the chills everytime over the "one word" scene! :-)

[hotmalecelebs]

so basicly jacks the face of boe

[Relicanth]

Does no one realize just how much of this is the fault of Martha's meddling mother? If she had just NOT sold them out to Saxon, maybe things would have turned out a bit differently.

[Meangrl19]

@Relicanth I used to hate and blame Martha's mother too, but look at it from her POV: You got Saxon's spies whispering things in your ear about how evil the Doctor is and that your little girl is traveling with this monster. We still to this day do not know what Harold Saxon told Francine. We don't know what the Master said that the Doctor was doing to Martha. I'm sure he didn't have to go far from the truth. The Doctor was already being cruel and ruining Martha's life while they were

[Meangrl19]

@Relicanth traveling together. I can't blame Francine for being worried about her daughter, no matter what lies or truths Saxon told her. Yes, she shouldn't have been so overprotective, but she's a mother.  I'd rather her be overprotective of Martha than for her to not be protective at all.

[Serenity113]

I did a double-take and flipped out when Jack said he was called "The Face of Boe". I started laughing like crazy. lol. :D

[TheCastellan]

I was never big on that, since how the HELL would he become a big, giant face?

[Serenity113]

I don't know. I guess someday in the Who 'verse or the Torchwood 'verse it will be explained. lol

[kurumais]

i love martha

[qaffangyrl]

oh me too! She's going to be on episode 4x04 of Doctor Who which airs next week on BBC1 in the UK!!!

[Seady93]

do u think u can post all the episodes on cos i love them!!! i promiss i'll watch them

[Heromaster07]

well i would to cuse its jack cuse he is funny