i have PTSD from a major auto accident and have gone through EMDR for a few years. it's interesting how you can relive all the traumas from childhood. do yourself a favor and let your therapist know you have PTSD or may not have been diagnosed. doctors love to give you bipolar meds for this. they do not relieve the symptoms. I crashed after my gf broke up with me, its really hard to deal with until you get some help...! feels like anxiety all the time. jitters and fear for no reason.
@amerciahelp1 I can tell you from personal experience that PTSD can often go unrecognized and therfore,untreated for decades,leaving the PTSD sufferer to live their life between the cracks in society.It can and does affect both the body and the mind and,if untreated,continue to erode the ability to function fully.A person w/ PTSD works for 22 yrs. and then falls apart from the weight of traumatic effects on their body and their mind,it can just wear you down until you fall apart.It sucks!
@amerciahelp1 If you are truly interested in an answer to your question,please check out "trauma and recovery" by Dr. Judith Lewis Herman,as well as Dr. Shapiros book "EMDR". I`ve been doing EMDR based therapy for a while now,and I can tell you,it really does work.Trauma therapy is a job in and of itself.That`s why people need disability while they are going through this stuff sometimes. I`ve been attending Native American Church meetings the past few yrs.and have found powerful healing there 2
my shrink says that ive had ptsd too long to use emdr and other mind therapy... i too have it from the first gulf war and it aint fun... the meds suck the most...
@93CFD Perhaps you might want to get a second professional opinion on that.I`ve had Complex PTSD for over 30 yrs. now,stemming from a whole shopping list of traumatic experiences starting when I was only 3 and EMDR has been incredibly helpful.The work is,of course,much more challenging when the traumatic experiences occurred many years ago but,EMDR and other healing modalities can be incredible tools for healing if you commit yourself to the process.We don`t have to live in our own hell any more
I lost my legs at 17, it was a pretty bad accident. For over 20 years I haven't been able to get over it properly, now I've found out I have bipolar 2, which sucks, but it is good because I'm finally on the right medication. Antidepressants were bad for me, I'm on Epilum now and it's working well. Life is a bit easier now, but it takes work, and work on your own behalf.
im a vet and this kills me evryday and the meds fuck me up and no one knows what the brain truly does i was far better off before i got help im suicidal now and thats not good at all
Different people react differently with different therapy. I will say if you have 20 years of trauma then you will spend about 40 years with emdr. Each rabbit trail needs to be conquered. Good luck.
@bearhead3 if you don`t have any ideea what you say shut the hell up.your stupid words might influence in a bad way some weak people that read what you write. EMDR is one of the best therapies in modern psychiatry and extremly effective. first learn what a trauma is and then speak dumb ass
I've been diagnosed with PTSD, I lost both my legs, the people at work say that's insignificant, that my problems are just me being a bludger, lazy, not a team player. I also have go and get fucked disorder, they can get fucked.
@vicvicbitter fair enough, easy for them to say when they have not been through it themselves. It would be nice if people could just manage some empathy; sadly some cannot.
I've got to say that no matter how bad life gets its so far no where near as bad as it was before I spent almost a year of therapy with an expert in PTSD from the Vietnam era, who speialises in EMDR. But I'm still Mental.
I have done one 1 1/2 hour session of EMDR. It really works. You will start out with all this negative emotion with all kinds of racing, traumatic thoughts (if you have more than one traumatic experience) rushing through your head. But hopefully by the time the 1 1/2 is over you will walk away feeling positive. But it will take several sessions. I just left the Army April 1 this year. If you get the chance follow through with the treatment.
especially a lot of noises are less present in my head=)
something more negative was that by talking about one traumatic experience others came up, i started to remember things i've never really thought about and i was suprised that i couldn't remember them for years...
nevertheless i think emdr is a good method and you always have the choice to stop if it's just too painful for you to talk about in your current living condition...
vic, Take your time. We all have an intuitive sense as to our personal paths in therapy. I encourage you to trust yours.
Well meaning people will urge you to continue regardless of your distress. However even with an approach as comparatively gentle as EMDR it takes a tremendous amount of energy to confront the worst moments of your life. You'll know when your ready.
I lost my legs 20 years ago in a crappy accident I adjusted very well physically, but mentally I;ve had severe depression, anxiety, nervous breakdowns, etc. EMDR was very painful, but extremely beneficial. You have to go through the pain. I still suffer from PTSD, its just not as bad as it was before EMDR.
Thank you for sharing your story. I am sorry to hear about your stuggles but with time and counseling believe you will be able to come to terms with your tradegy and find peace. EMDR has worked for many and even if it only lessens the PTSD by a small percentage, it is better than where you were at before the technique. I hope you are continuing with counseling also as this is just as important in the healing process.
I would like to talks ome time if you're OK with that. EMDR is great. Life is great, its great to be alive, people try to tell me I don;t compare to this PTSD person, or they don't compare to me, none of them have suffered a bad shitty accident, none of them understand what we go through.
I can't handle any more counselling. Sometimes the cure is more painful than the illness. Maybe its better to hide, sometimes it is very painful, sometimes it is.How do yu explain this? Its lke trying to explain phantom pains to a non-amputee. EMDR is powerful, and beneficial, but I can't go back to that just yet.
Yes, you are correct that it is painful to relive your experience in therapy, but working through that will help you reach your goals and put you in a better place in the long run.....oh and go somewhere where you are alone and it is quiet and just letting out a good, loud scream and cry will relieve a lot of pent up anger and sorrow as well. My prayers are with you.
@m112233445566m11 I've been getting rid of this with EFT for 3 years. With EFT you don't have to relive the painful experience to get rid of it. I have yet have a client that I couldn't get rid of their painful reactions to the traumatic events they experienced with EFT.
@vicvicbitter pray alot, or find some sort of faith that will guide you. Then, keep yourself busy. After work, instead of sitting on the couch watching TV go to the gym or for a jog outdoors or go play some sports. Always be active. And don't drink alcohol. I've had PTSD, it took around 5 months of hell to get better. Stay strong
@vicvicbitter Hey. What did you experience in regard to 'very painful' 'through the pain' during your EMDR therapy. I am about to start it and I am scared to death already. I am a 'basket case' already and if I get 'worse' trying to get better...I don't know if I can handle it. Appreciate your comments. Thanks.
@dewdropsnsnowflakes When you have EMDR you re-live the anxiety, and a good practicitioner can help, some how re-living it reduces the anxiety. I found out later I also have bi-polar 2 , and i needed a lot more than emdr...medication, psychiatrist, the loved ones...Half the battle is knowing the problem, the rest is dealing with it. My PTSD will never be cured but it no longer rules and ruins my life. . Good luck. Contact me any time & if I'm
We're still waiting for your references. This disingenuous effort to present as the injured party is sad. If you have studies from peer reviewed journals then post them.
Real therapists are actually interested in learning about new approaches. Your interest appears to be posturing.
By the way, where did you acquire your 'knowledge' about therapists who practice EMDR? Specifically, "what EMDR proponents think is happening is not actually happening the way they think it is". What?
i have to say, reading your responses to keith1y have been more than gratifying! it is nice to read someone who is schooled at this practice as well as someone with a sense of humor.
i am beginning EMDR therapy and am really excited about its possibilities.
@hobocakes I see lots of people saying EMDR takes lots of sessions, why do that when using other methods you can find what is broken and fix it in one session. As I said before my concern over EMDR is that no one actually knows how it supposedly works. The underlying model of how trauma effects people that is used to understand EMDR is wrong.
@keith1y EMDR is the gold star standard and there is NO therapy on the planet that cures PTSD in one session. And if you do your research you will find out there are many people who know how and why EMDR works and is effective. It makes both sides of your brain work and work together taking the emotion out of the memories.
@TheLoShow2010 If your PTSD is due to one traumatic incident, then it can be sorted in one session. If your PSTD is caused by 900 different traumatic situations, then you will need 900 sessions. I have been doing this successfully every day for the past 10 years.
No one knows actually how EMDR works, because what they say, amounts to nothing more than a guess.
If you believed "it was my fault",& have a realization that "It wasn't".It is the realization of truth that cures,not moving your eyes.
@keith1y I was speaking from personal experience, it is difficult to give references because of client confidentiality. I work by actually understanding the exact impact of the trauma, and working to resolve it. We are usually able to cover one major traumatic incidence per session. I work with victims of sadistic abuse amongst others. EMDR works by essentially getting the intellectual mind out of the way and enabling the emotional mind to process stuff more naturally.
I'm sorry no one outside of your grandmother's basement will take you seriously. Your efforts to draw attention to yourself are sad.
I've asked you repeatedly to provide a single shred of support for any, I repeat, any of your claims. But instead you will endlessly repeat your 'common sense' analysis.
You thought your initial statements dismissing EMDR would go unchallenged. You were taken to the woodshed. Now you are compelled to defend your honor. Defend away. One published study.
If anyone seriously wants references to published studies in order to help hurting people, rather than to point score or mock. Please contact me directly.
One study reports 20% of practitioners surveyed report 100% resolution of all emotional pain in the specific memories covered in a session. (I concur with hose 20%) 92% of practitioners surved report 100% resolution 50% of the time.
@neuron23 ok one published study - "Pursuing Peace by Fernando Garzon" researcher into efficacy of some christian counselling approaches. The key new thing about the methods he has been researching, is that the underlying model of how things work and how things get broke is correct. So you CAN actually say how these methods work, rather than guessing.
e.g. The emotional belief "I am going to die" remembered in the context of an original trauma, will be the root cause of a phobia.
This stuff worked for me. PTSD is very real. I worked as a paramedic. I was having a lot of significant problems after working two catastrophic accident scenes involving dead kids.
After a few sessions I was able to resolve a long-standing set of issues, completely.
EMDR is a lot more than "5 minutes of pencil waving"
I dont think you understood me... The person doing the processing of their emotions is doing a LOT. The person waving the pencil, needs to think again if they think that moving the eyes in a certain way cures anything.
If you look at how you perceived those incidents, before and after your healing, you may realise that your beliefs about what happened changed. This is a result of the processing that you were able to do in the session, not a result of following a dot or a pencil.
Two months later and still beating the same drum. BTW, still waiting to hear about your direct experience with EMDR. And which journal has published the research on your therapeutic approach; perhaps the Ladies Home Journal?
Have you read a single book about EMDR?
First you're a therapist, and then an engineer, and now your experience is that of a cohabitant with a trauma survivor. The only thing that is reality based is your pathology. Consider therapy.
Hmm, you really are emotionally stirred up by what I am saying aren't you. There is no need to be rude.
I don't believe that it is ethical to charge people for help that should be free. My engineering background helps me to apply analytical thinking to the situation.
Why do you object to the idea of finding out what the problem actually is, in order to fix it?
Ritual abuse survivor here whos integrating from D.I.D. Emdr is an essential tool (in my experience) for processing trauma, but only one of many. Its a crude way of forcing memories to surface. A bit like chucking a grenade into the mind!!!!!! Dont knock it ......its real and works, but isnt a miracle cure.
I work (successfully) with SRA/D.I.D. and I will stick with my point, processing trauma is essential for processing trauma. The pencil is a mere distraction for many of the protective mechanisms you put in place in order to stay safe. Chucking a grenade into the mind doesnt sound safe to me. Thanks for confirming my point.
As I mentioned initially, and you have confirmed my hypothesis, you're not really interested in learning anything.
You wish to draw attention to yourself by dismissing EMDR and ridiculing the experience of others. It's called being an 'attention whore'. That's why you began your first post with, and I quote, "lol".
I'm not sure which is more evident, your transparency, your ignorance, or your insecurity.
By the way, the word is "alters" not "altars". Dumbass. Oops. Did I say that out loud?
I think that falls into the category of ad hominem attack. A classic sign that your actual point is not defendable by rational argument.
I am merely pointing out that what EMDR proponents think is happening is not actually happening the way they think it is. If you come out of the sterile "clinical" relationship without emotional investment, and instead you live with someone for 5 years who has PTSD you may get a different picture of how trauma is actually resolved.
I do understand how the roots of trauma is uncovered and successfully resolved. What you are watching is some of the emotional resolution process. This EMDR process looks like something someone accidentally stumbled upon and then fumbled around for an explanation of how it works. Tricking the brain is not really the way forward, there are better ways.
It's gratifying that there is someone out there who has solved the complexities of the brain and trauma resolution. The amazing thing is, you're the only one. As Antonio Damasio stated so eloquently, "If the brain was simple enough to understand, we would be too simple to understand it.."
EMDR is not "tricking" the brain. But you are resolved to dismiss any information that would contradict your simplistic view of human function. Thanks for playing.
No I am not, look up Drs Karl & Charlotte Lehman, Dr James Wilder
Actually engaging with and resolving the trauma is needed, for type B "traumatic events" trauma, actual family and community is needed for "absense of good things/neglect" issues. Waving a pencil about for 5 minutes does nothing.
Where are the control group studies of Dr. Lehman et al. and the "engage and resolve" form of psychotherapy?
I wrote my doctoral dissertation on EMDR in the treatment of depression. I know the research literature of PTSD. I've worked for 25 years as a therapist, pre and post EMDR.
The research confirming the benefits of EMDR is overwhelming. This includes SPECT scans, pre and post treatment. You dismiss this as waving a pencil for 5 minutes. Nice try.
Yes I do dismiss it as waving a pencil about for 5 minutes. Where is the investigation into what exactly and specifically is the source and cause ot the continued pain? I.e. what about it has stuck? Where is the opportunity for inner children (altars/littles) to express what they experienced, and reconnect?
From what I have read I would consider EMDR to be about 5% as effective as what I have been using for the past 7 years.
A specific trauma is resolved by a specific change in perception of the client. That is how trauma is resolved, so if EMDR can do this without actual specifically engaging with real issues, then it must be achieving this outcome by accident. The patient must have obtained the change in perception, in spite of the therapists presence or pencil waving.
You need to measure the perceptions before and after, then find ask them what effected the change.
I repeat, what is your specific experience with EMDR? Oh, you don't have any?
Which journals contains the group studies of your therapeutic approach.? Oh, there aren't any? I'm shocked.
The EMDR research is available for review. Read it. The standards of science have been met. Now it's your turn.
You have responded to none of my questions, valid challenges to the premises that you established; EMDR is ineffective and your approach is vastly superior.
I repeat EMDR is getting results by accident. It is not analytically finding the exact cause of the problem and addressing it specifically. As an engineer myself people in my field are expected to know what they are doing.
If someone asks me to disassemble a plane I can use a spanner or a grenade. Both will work, but is a more specific considered, predicable, tidier, cleaner, safer approach than the other. For example, what steps do you take to ensure that you approach memories in a safe order?
FYI...there is a safe protocol that trained EMDR practitioners use to access the memories in the "correct" order...I don't know where you're getting a lot of your information. And regarding the brain, if you're going to take on Daniel Amen, whose featured in this clip, well, I hope you have some pretty good credentials to back it up. As someone whose benefitted from EMDR and who practices it, trust me, we're getting to the root cause if we're working with a client who wants to go there.
How did steven afford this? i really need to do this. I really want help-a good therapist with knowledge in trauma.but i cannot find any for low cost. does anyone ahve any ideas or help out there? thanks
Does this shit work
PriceyFilms2504 5 months ago
i have PTSD from a major auto accident and have gone through EMDR for a few years. it's interesting how you can relive all the traumas from childhood. do yourself a favor and let your therapist know you have PTSD or may not have been diagnosed. doctors love to give you bipolar meds for this. they do not relieve the symptoms. I crashed after my gf broke up with me, its really hard to deal with until you get some help...! feels like anxiety all the time. jitters and fear for no reason.
thegreenhaze 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
lease watch my PTSD - The War Within : News Story
i am doing as much as i can, to get recognition for this illness and how it affects the soldiers!
stanny111 1 year ago
Comment removed
bpvogel 1 year ago
how can you work 22 years and then suddenly have ptsd? ...and be declared 100% disabled?
amerciahelp1 1 year ago
@amerciahelp1 I can tell you from personal experience that PTSD can often go unrecognized and therfore,untreated for decades,leaving the PTSD sufferer to live their life between the cracks in society.It can and does affect both the body and the mind and,if untreated,continue to erode the ability to function fully.A person w/ PTSD works for 22 yrs. and then falls apart from the weight of traumatic effects on their body and their mind,it can just wear you down until you fall apart.It sucks!
DEEPMOODYPURPLEBLUES 1 year ago 2
@amerciahelp1 If you are truly interested in an answer to your question,please check out "trauma and recovery" by Dr. Judith Lewis Herman,as well as Dr. Shapiros book "EMDR". I`ve been doing EMDR based therapy for a while now,and I can tell you,it really does work.Trauma therapy is a job in and of itself.That`s why people need disability while they are going through this stuff sometimes. I`ve been attending Native American Church meetings the past few yrs.and have found powerful healing there 2
DEEPMOODYPURPLEBLUES 1 year ago
Comment removed
DEEPMOODYPURPLEBLUES 1 year ago
my shrink says that ive had ptsd too long to use emdr and other mind therapy... i too have it from the first gulf war and it aint fun... the meds suck the most...
93CFD 1 year ago
@93CFD Perhaps you might want to get a second professional opinion on that.I`ve had Complex PTSD for over 30 yrs. now,stemming from a whole shopping list of traumatic experiences starting when I was only 3 and EMDR has been incredibly helpful.The work is,of course,much more challenging when the traumatic experiences occurred many years ago but,EMDR and other healing modalities can be incredible tools for healing if you commit yourself to the process.We don`t have to live in our own hell any more
DEEPMOODYPURPLEBLUES 1 year ago
Comment removed
DEEPMOODYPURPLEBLUES 1 year ago
I lost my legs at 17, it was a pretty bad accident. For over 20 years I haven't been able to get over it properly, now I've found out I have bipolar 2, which sucks, but it is good because I'm finally on the right medication. Antidepressants were bad for me, I'm on Epilum now and it's working well. Life is a bit easier now, but it takes work, and work on your own behalf.
vicvicbitter 1 year ago
people, also look up "Faster EFT". it has helped me a lot.
thelifeuwant 1 year ago
im a vet and this kills me evryday and the meds fuck me up and no one knows what the brain truly does i was far better off before i got help im suicidal now and thats not good at all
staloki 1 year ago
Different people react differently with different therapy. I will say if you have 20 years of trauma then you will spend about 40 years with emdr. Each rabbit trail needs to be conquered. Good luck.
bearhead3 2 years ago
@bearhead3 if you don`t have any ideea what you say shut the hell up.your stupid words might influence in a bad way some weak people that read what you write. EMDR is one of the best therapies in modern psychiatry and extremly effective. first learn what a trauma is and then speak dumb ass
fitzosuul 2 years ago
Having spent two weeks catatonic as a result of EMDR I think I am pretty well qualified to speak my mind jack ass.
Refounders2010 2 years ago
I've been diagnosed with PTSD, I lost both my legs, the people at work say that's insignificant, that my problems are just me being a bludger, lazy, not a team player. I also have go and get fucked disorder, they can get fucked.
vicvicbitter 2 years ago 5
youre awesome, and of course they get fucked, im with you
lomias 1 year ago
@vicvicbitter fair enough, easy for them to say when they have not been through it themselves. It would be nice if people could just manage some empathy; sadly some cannot.
SickOfKnowItAlls 1 year ago
I hope I can get this at the VA. I really need a resolution. PTSD is kicking my ass.
wiseparagon 2 years ago
@wiseparagon Please tell us if you checked with the VA. My friend also needs help back from Iraq.
fdzwes 2 years ago
EMDR works for PTSD. The evidence is there.
benzodiazapines 2 years ago
I've got to say that no matter how bad life gets its so far no where near as bad as it was before I spent almost a year of therapy with an expert in PTSD from the Vietnam era, who speialises in EMDR. But I'm still Mental.
vicvicbitter 2 years ago
sorry to here that
LucyAnn2DoorA 2 years ago
I have done one 1 1/2 hour session of EMDR. It really works. You will start out with all this negative emotion with all kinds of racing, traumatic thoughts (if you have more than one traumatic experience) rushing through your head. But hopefully by the time the 1 1/2 is over you will walk away feeling positive. But it will take several sessions. I just left the Army April 1 this year. If you get the chance follow through with the treatment.
muzic4damasses 2 years ago 2
I am going to be starting EMDR with my therapist
does EMDR cure PTSD completely???
MrElleanor09 2 years ago
i also have positive experiences with emdr.
especially a lot of noises are less present in my head=)
something more negative was that by talking about one traumatic experience others came up, i started to remember things i've never really thought about and i was suprised that i couldn't remember them for years...
nevertheless i think emdr is a good method and you always have the choice to stop if it's just too painful for you to talk about in your current living condition...
197919922000 2 years ago
vic, Take your time. We all have an intuitive sense as to our personal paths in therapy. I encourage you to trust yours.
Well meaning people will urge you to continue regardless of your distress. However even with an approach as comparatively gentle as EMDR it takes a tremendous amount of energy to confront the worst moments of your life. You'll know when your ready.
neuron23 2 years ago
Comment removed
vicvicbitter 2 years ago
I lost my legs 20 years ago in a crappy accident I adjusted very well physically, but mentally I;ve had severe depression, anxiety, nervous breakdowns, etc. EMDR was very painful, but extremely beneficial. You have to go through the pain. I still suffer from PTSD, its just not as bad as it was before EMDR.
vicvicbitter 2 years ago 3
Thank you for sharing your story. I am sorry to hear about your stuggles but with time and counseling believe you will be able to come to terms with your tradegy and find peace. EMDR has worked for many and even if it only lessens the PTSD by a small percentage, it is better than where you were at before the technique. I hope you are continuing with counseling also as this is just as important in the healing process.
kcestarte 2 years ago 3
I would like to talks ome time if you're OK with that. EMDR is great. Life is great, its great to be alive, people try to tell me I don;t compare to this PTSD person, or they don't compare to me, none of them have suffered a bad shitty accident, none of them understand what we go through.
vicvicbitter 2 years ago
I can't handle any more counselling. Sometimes the cure is more painful than the illness. Maybe its better to hide, sometimes it is very painful, sometimes it is.How do yu explain this? Its lke trying to explain phantom pains to a non-amputee. EMDR is powerful, and beneficial, but I can't go back to that just yet.
vicvicbitter 2 years ago 3
Yes, you are correct that it is painful to relive your experience in therapy, but working through that will help you reach your goals and put you in a better place in the long run.....oh and go somewhere where you are alone and it is quiet and just letting out a good, loud scream and cry will relieve a lot of pent up anger and sorrow as well. My prayers are with you.
kcestarte 2 years ago 3
@vicvicbitter
@m112233445566m11 I've been getting rid of this with EFT for 3 years. With EFT you don't have to relive the painful experience to get rid of it. I have yet have a client that I couldn't get rid of their painful reactions to the traumatic events they experienced with EFT.
larryd2009 1 year ago
@vicvicbitter pray alot, or find some sort of faith that will guide you. Then, keep yourself busy. After work, instead of sitting on the couch watching TV go to the gym or for a jog outdoors or go play some sports. Always be active. And don't drink alcohol. I've had PTSD, it took around 5 months of hell to get better. Stay strong
tokingandwoking 1 year ago
@vicvicbitter Maybe EFT would be more gentle for you.
SickOfKnowItAlls 1 year ago
@vicvicbitter Hey. What did you experience in regard to 'very painful' 'through the pain' during your EMDR therapy. I am about to start it and I am scared to death already. I am a 'basket case' already and if I get 'worse' trying to get better...I don't know if I can handle it. Appreciate your comments. Thanks.
dewdropsnsnowflakes 7 months ago
@dewdropsnsnowflakes When you have EMDR you re-live the anxiety, and a good practicitioner can help, some how re-living it reduces the anxiety. I found out later I also have bi-polar 2 , and i needed a lot more than emdr...medication, psychiatrist, the loved ones...Half the battle is knowing the problem, the rest is dealing with it. My PTSD will never be cured but it no longer rules and ruins my life. . Good luck. Contact me any time & if I'm
on-line I'll help if I can. :-}
vicvicbitter 7 months ago
We're still waiting for your references. This disingenuous effort to present as the injured party is sad. If you have studies from peer reviewed journals then post them.
Real therapists are actually interested in learning about new approaches. Your interest appears to be posturing.
By the way, where did you acquire your 'knowledge' about therapists who practice EMDR? Specifically, "what EMDR proponents think is happening is not actually happening the way they think it is". What?
neuron23 2 years ago
Comment removed
vicvicbitter 2 years ago
i have to say, reading your responses to keith1y have been more than gratifying! it is nice to read someone who is schooled at this practice as well as someone with a sense of humor.
i am beginning EMDR therapy and am really excited about its possibilities.
hobocakes 2 years ago
@hobocakes I see lots of people saying EMDR takes lots of sessions, why do that when using other methods you can find what is broken and fix it in one session. As I said before my concern over EMDR is that no one actually knows how it supposedly works. The underlying model of how trauma effects people that is used to understand EMDR is wrong.
keith1y 9 months ago
@keith1y EMDR is the gold star standard and there is NO therapy on the planet that cures PTSD in one session. And if you do your research you will find out there are many people who know how and why EMDR works and is effective. It makes both sides of your brain work and work together taking the emotion out of the memories.
TheLoShow2010 7 months ago
@TheLoShow2010 If your PTSD is due to one traumatic incident, then it can be sorted in one session. If your PSTD is caused by 900 different traumatic situations, then you will need 900 sessions. I have been doing this successfully every day for the past 10 years.
No one knows actually how EMDR works, because what they say, amounts to nothing more than a guess.
If you believed "it was my fault",& have a realization that "It wasn't".It is the realization of truth that cures,not moving your eyes.
keith1y 7 months ago
@keith1y I was speaking from personal experience, it is difficult to give references because of client confidentiality. I work by actually understanding the exact impact of the trauma, and working to resolve it. We are usually able to cover one major traumatic incidence per session. I work with victims of sadistic abuse amongst others. EMDR works by essentially getting the intellectual mind out of the way and enabling the emotional mind to process stuff more naturally.
keith1y 7 months ago
I'm sorry no one outside of your grandmother's basement will take you seriously. Your efforts to draw attention to yourself are sad.
I've asked you repeatedly to provide a single shred of support for any, I repeat, any of your claims. But instead you will endlessly repeat your 'common sense' analysis.
You thought your initial statements dismissing EMDR would go unchallenged. You were taken to the woodshed. Now you are compelled to defend your honor. Defend away. One published study.
neuron23 2 years ago
If anyone seriously wants references to published studies in order to help hurting people, rather than to point score or mock. Please contact me directly.
One study reports 20% of practitioners surveyed report 100% resolution of all emotional pain in the specific memories covered in a session. (I concur with hose 20%) 92% of practitioners surved report 100% resolution 50% of the time.
keith1y 2 years ago
@neuron23 ok one published study - "Pursuing Peace by Fernando Garzon" researcher into efficacy of some christian counselling approaches. The key new thing about the methods he has been researching, is that the underlying model of how things work and how things get broke is correct. So you CAN actually say how these methods work, rather than guessing.
e.g. The emotional belief "I am going to die" remembered in the context of an original trauma, will be the root cause of a phobia.
keith1y 7 months ago
This stuff worked for me. PTSD is very real. I worked as a paramedic. I was having a lot of significant problems after working two catastrophic accident scenes involving dead kids.
After a few sessions I was able to resolve a long-standing set of issues, completely.
EMDR is a lot more than "5 minutes of pencil waving"
davidsonnen 2 years ago
I dont think you understood me... The person doing the processing of their emotions is doing a LOT. The person waving the pencil, needs to think again if they think that moving the eyes in a certain way cures anything.
If you look at how you perceived those incidents, before and after your healing, you may realise that your beliefs about what happened changed. This is a result of the processing that you were able to do in the session, not a result of following a dot or a pencil.
keith1y 2 years ago
Two months later and still beating the same drum. BTW, still waiting to hear about your direct experience with EMDR. And which journal has published the research on your therapeutic approach; perhaps the Ladies Home Journal?
Have you read a single book about EMDR?
First you're a therapist, and then an engineer, and now your experience is that of a cohabitant with a trauma survivor. The only thing that is reality based is your pathology. Consider therapy.
neuron23 2 years ago
Hmm, you really are emotionally stirred up by what I am saying aren't you. There is no need to be rude.
I don't believe that it is ethical to charge people for help that should be free. My engineering background helps me to apply analytical thinking to the situation.
Why do you object to the idea of finding out what the problem actually is, in order to fix it?
keith1y 2 years ago
Ritual abuse survivor here whos integrating from D.I.D. Emdr is an essential tool (in my experience) for processing trauma, but only one of many. Its a crude way of forcing memories to surface. A bit like chucking a grenade into the mind!!!!!! Dont knock it ......its real and works, but isnt a miracle cure.
cheekyleopard 2 years ago
I work (successfully) with SRA/D.I.D. and I will stick with my point, processing trauma is essential for processing trauma. The pencil is a mere distraction for many of the protective mechanisms you put in place in order to stay safe. Chucking a grenade into the mind doesnt sound safe to me. Thanks for confirming my point.
keith1y 2 years ago
As I mentioned initially, and you have confirmed my hypothesis, you're not really interested in learning anything.
You wish to draw attention to yourself by dismissing EMDR and ridiculing the experience of others. It's called being an 'attention whore'. That's why you began your first post with, and I quote, "lol".
I'm not sure which is more evident, your transparency, your ignorance, or your insecurity.
By the way, the word is "alters" not "altars". Dumbass. Oops. Did I say that out loud?
neuron23 3 years ago 6
I think that falls into the category of ad hominem attack. A classic sign that your actual point is not defendable by rational argument.
I am merely pointing out that what EMDR proponents think is happening is not actually happening the way they think it is. If you come out of the sterile "clinical" relationship without emotional investment, and instead you live with someone for 5 years who has PTSD you may get a different picture of how trauma is actually resolved.
keith1y 2 years ago
does anyone know where I can buy the machine uesd in the session?
doggieeeqwa 3 years ago
you cannot just buy it, you have to get a therapist and request that specific type of therapy.
KenjiSaun 3 years ago
lol, the light and sound is a way of distracting the intellectual mind, thus freeing the emotional processing to take place. It doesnt do anything!
keith1y 3 years ago
It's obvious that you don't even comprehend what you just said, let alone the bilateral stim. process
mefougner 3 years ago
I do understand how the roots of trauma is uncovered and successfully resolved. What you are watching is some of the emotional resolution process. This EMDR process looks like something someone accidentally stumbled upon and then fumbled around for an explanation of how it works. Tricking the brain is not really the way forward, there are better ways.
keith1y 3 years ago
It's gratifying that there is someone out there who has solved the complexities of the brain and trauma resolution. The amazing thing is, you're the only one. As Antonio Damasio stated so eloquently, "If the brain was simple enough to understand, we would be too simple to understand it.."
EMDR is not "tricking" the brain. But you are resolved to dismiss any information that would contradict your simplistic view of human function. Thanks for playing.
neuron23 3 years ago 4
No I am not, look up Drs Karl & Charlotte Lehman, Dr James Wilder
Actually engaging with and resolving the trauma is needed, for type B "traumatic events" trauma, actual family and community is needed for "absense of good things/neglect" issues. Waving a pencil about for 5 minutes does nothing.
keith1y 3 years ago
Describe your experience with EMDR.
Where are the control group studies of Dr. Lehman et al. and the "engage and resolve" form of psychotherapy?
I wrote my doctoral dissertation on EMDR in the treatment of depression. I know the research literature of PTSD. I've worked for 25 years as a therapist, pre and post EMDR.
The research confirming the benefits of EMDR is overwhelming. This includes SPECT scans, pre and post treatment. You dismiss this as waving a pencil for 5 minutes. Nice try.
neuron23 3 years ago 4
Yes I do dismiss it as waving a pencil about for 5 minutes. Where is the investigation into what exactly and specifically is the source and cause ot the continued pain? I.e. what about it has stuck? Where is the opportunity for inner children (altars/littles) to express what they experienced, and reconnect?
From what I have read I would consider EMDR to be about 5% as effective as what I have been using for the past 7 years.
keith1y 3 years ago
A specific trauma is resolved by a specific change in perception of the client. That is how trauma is resolved, so if EMDR can do this without actual specifically engaging with real issues, then it must be achieving this outcome by accident. The patient must have obtained the change in perception, in spite of the therapists presence or pencil waving.
You need to measure the perceptions before and after, then find ask them what effected the change.
keith1y 3 years ago
I repeat, what is your specific experience with EMDR? Oh, you don't have any?
Which journals contains the group studies of your therapeutic approach.? Oh, there aren't any? I'm shocked.
The EMDR research is available for review. Read it. The standards of science have been met. Now it's your turn.
You have responded to none of my questions, valid challenges to the premises that you established; EMDR is ineffective and your approach is vastly superior.
Simply stated: Put up or shut up.
neuron23 3 years ago 4
I repeat EMDR is getting results by accident. It is not analytically finding the exact cause of the problem and addressing it specifically. As an engineer myself people in my field are expected to know what they are doing.
If someone asks me to disassemble a plane I can use a spanner or a grenade. Both will work, but is a more specific considered, predicable, tidier, cleaner, safer approach than the other. For example, what steps do you take to ensure that you approach memories in a safe order?
keith1y 2 years ago
FYI...there is a safe protocol that trained EMDR practitioners use to access the memories in the "correct" order...I don't know where you're getting a lot of your information. And regarding the brain, if you're going to take on Daniel Amen, whose featured in this clip, well, I hope you have some pretty good credentials to back it up. As someone whose benefitted from EMDR and who practices it, trust me, we're getting to the root cause if we're working with a client who wants to go there.
cornersburg1 2 years ago
Fascinating. It'll be great when we can fully understand the way our brain stores information.
highart2003 3 years ago 2
How did steven afford this? i really need to do this. I really want help-a good therapist with knowledge in trauma.but i cannot find any for low cost. does anyone ahve any ideas or help out there? thanks
ntiego 3 years ago
Ask your general practitionar and mention EMDR therapy, you might just call some clinics if they have well-trained psychologists. Good luck.
martensmini 3 years ago