The Prudential Halftime Report June 4, 1987 - Isiah Thomas scandal

[BigTimePride]

Isiah was just mad because he became another victim on Bird's highlight reel!

[dickliscious]

Isiah once again kept it real. He was A.I. before A.I.

[JayGatsbyOdysseus]

Isiah Thomas and Larry Bird are the only two NBA players who completely turned around their teams. Each the Detroit Piston and the Boston Celtics were like 20-50 before Thomas and Bird were drafted. Their rookies years, their teams went like 50-20. One player to turn the team around.  Magic and MIchael did not do this.

[jascha1978]

if you take Larry Bird out of it and look at what Isaiah said it is partly true. for instance, if you were to flip it and say, if Dominique Wilkins was white, would his rating as a player not be that much higher? i think so. Look what the media was saying about Dirk. ridiculous. often times i think that Isaiah speaks to candidly and when taken out of context makes for a good sound bite.

[Flipper79able]

@jascha1978 I think it's true what you said about Dirk. Actually, I think Dirk and Dominique are similar in their over all play. They are both All-Stars but really only one dimensional players...they are incredible scorers and team captains but that's about it. Bird has the 5th highest career triple doubles and 3rd in playoff triple doubles...not to mention his incredible free throw % and 3 point field goal %. Bird was an amazing all around player and deserved the hype and awards he got.

[FunkyWill]

this guy is synical. i hate you isiah. i'll never be a fan of you. especially that you killed my knicks. you fucking dick man!

[Mraloneandsad]

isiah LOLED

[Mastafiq]

they need to have sense of humor! just a joke!

[redsquall5]

Isiah is an asshole. Look at what he said about his "friend" Magic Johnson when Magic contracted HIV.

[lpayne5001]

2) More specifically, is it possible Isiah's right? I know CBS would rather shit all over his opinions, but let's consider: Bird had awesome talent. He also could barely jump, he wasn't quick, and he was a fairly crappy defender. And never led his team to back-to-back titles, something Magic, Jordan, and Isiah DID do. In a sport dominated by blacks, did everyone ignore Bird's weaknesses because he stood out and was a natural underdog (and because a majority of the media and fans are white)?

[scorpionJB]

@lpayne5001 I think it's one of those situations where one would interpret his statement according to point of reference and the situation that led to it......on one side, people may think bird was overrated because he was white, but that may obscure the fact this guy left the game one of the top 5 players ever to play this game, I'm a black man saying this, like MAGIC JOHNSON said "everyone else we felt we could bet, but the one guy we feared was LARRY BIRD", and he was real when he said that

[lpayne5001]

@scorpionJB Yeah, I mean, hey, I think Bird was a great player and great for the game. Top 5? Maybe. Top 10 definitely. But I still don't understand why the media (and, by extension, the citizens who watch the media) get so offended by the words of some random person, and then demand that that person APOLOGIZE for those statements! Nothing about the world changed when this guy spoke; no one was hurt. A person just SAID something. That's it! He could be right, or wrong, or insensitive. Who cares?

[scorpionJB]

@lpayne5001 I agree, larry bird didn't seem to trip off of it, all players talk trash in the locker rook, bird called out dr. j once by using a racial slur...it is what it is, bird was reknowned for being the league's biggest trash talker, I think what fueled the "controversy" was that the nba was predominantly black in terms of it's superstars and larry bird was white, but was dominant, legitimately dominant in the process, and the media was glad to see that.

[Flipper79able]

@scorpionJB Actually Bird didn't say that racial slur to Dr. J......it was M.L. Carr on the Boston bench. This was in Bird's biography and M.L. Carr has admitted it in interviews. Man, that rumor was straightened out in the eighties. Have you been living in a cave for the past couple of decades?

[scorpionJB]

@Flipper79able I've been here...loll...my bad on that one, glad you cleared that up for me

[Flipper79able]

@scorpionJB No problem. I mean honestly if Larry had used a racial slur against another black player he would have been crucified many many times worse than Isiah did.......the media would have never let that go.

[scorpionJB]

@Flipper79able excellent points for sure

[TheBrainMachine78]

@lpayne5001 Bird won more titles than Isiah, who gives a shit if they weren't back-to-back? Meaningless attempt to knock Bird (who btw, was MUCH better individually than Zeke, not really close).

[joekiddlouischama]

@TheBrainMachine78 ... not to mention Thomas not being nearly on the same level as Bird; some though that Joe Dumars was a better, or at least equivalent, guard for Detroit.

[lpayne5001]

I look at this whole circumstance from two angles.

1) I hate the fucking media for this whole, "we're gonna be magnanimous and let you have an opportunity to retract and apologize for your remarks. Aren't we kind?" Not only is it condescending, it's pointless. Why is the media conditioning society to CARE about something ONE PERSON says?! Isiah is an individual, and he made a statement. Why does the media act like it's their (and our) duty to police and judge opinions? They're just words! Damn!

[Flipper79able]

@lpayne5001 I think what Thomas was saying was that Larry is definitely an All Star. At that time they were saying Bird may be the best ever. I don't think Bird is the best ever but at that time during this part of the eighties I think Bird was better than anyone. I also think Isiah was wrong in saying Bird was just an All Star.......Bird, Magic and Jordan were the Best during these days.......Isiah may have been number four but those three were the best especially Bird 1984 through 1986.

[Flipper79able]

@lpayne5001 I agree with you....but let's look at it from another angle. Let's say Laimbeer said Jordan is a typical black player.....a lot of flash and style but he would rather look good and lose than look bad and win. I'm saying that because that was a common stereotype of black basketball players back then while the common stereotype for white basketball players was that they were overrated. Do you think the media should've called out Laimbeer if that actually happened? Answer Honestly.

[lpayne5001]

@Flipper79able Well, first off, I don't think the media should be "calling out" anyone. This is the problem with our shitty news corps: they do less objective reporting and more judging, editorializing, and ranting. It's not CBS' job to get on Isiah's ass because of his Bird comments. Their only job is to, I guess, print Isiah's quote. I hate media members for thinking it's their damn duty to right all the "wrongs" they hear and see.

[lpayne5001]

@Flipper79able Secondly, in an ideal world? No, their wouldn't be a firestorm about Laimbeer's comments. Not because his quote isn't racially charged (and perhaps offensive), but because society simply wouldn't operate under the "somebody-said-something-offen­sive-so-now-I-have-to-make-it-­MY-business" paradigm. It's one thing to ingest the news; it's another to react so dramatically when someone else expresses their own opinion.

[lpayne5001]

@Flipper79able Our country's obsession with celebrity (and the belief that celebrities "owe" the public something, and can only have a certain, narrow set of opinions) is why Keeping Up with the Kardashians is so popular, and why no one will bother electing a president who's not a total fraud. We care about the wrong things.

But, of course, it's not an ideal world. Laimbeer would get raked over the coals for saying something like that. And he'd be forced to apologize on national TV.

[lpayne5001]

@Flipper79able Let me make it clear that this is not about agreeing or disagreeing with Bill Laimbeer. It's about not acting as though a stranger--someone I've never met and will never meet--has to apologize to me and the rest of the country because he says something most of us disagree with. That's not a healthy way to go thru life.

But really, you couldn't have picked some other play than Laimbeer? That guy was such a dick. It's been very hard defending his right to free speech.

[Flipper79able]

@lpayne5001 Wow, You wrote a lot to me. I'll try to answer back without spending too much time on Youtube. I think your right. I don't think it's anyones business what two different people say to each other. I was just trying to challenge you to see it from another angle...but if your answer is the same....as it seems to be....fair enough.

[DeonKelley]

Isiah is only speaking the TRUTH!!!!! Rodman said, so Y didnt anybody, New reports as well, go after Rodman as hard as Isiah....

[3DStoneCt]

Isiah didn't say anything wrong; all Thomas said was that if Bird were black, they would consider him just another good player. It was an observation based upon how the media discredited black players and gave credit to white players who were good. Why? Because black players are supposed to be able to run, jump, dunk, shoot, and be athletic and active. When Bird does it they hype it up more cause of his skin color. What's wrong with Thomas said? Nothing!

[Flipper79able]

@3DStoneCt Wait, Wait. First of all Isiah said he was joking. If he really meant what you said in your comment why would he say he was joking? It's because Isiah knows what he said was wrong......I repeat, he knew it was wrong, that's why he said he was joking when both you and I clearly don't think he was. Think about it.

[3DStoneCt]

@Flipper79able He was saying he was joking because the league made him come out and say it. What you have to understand about sports is that honesty is bad for business. Anything seemingly or appearing racist is not good for business because it divides people which messes up your money. So if you are in business your ojective is to sell and guess what? This doesn't sell! So Thomas had to eat dirt and lie about joking so he can continue to make $.

[3DStoneCt]

@Flipper79able What you have to realize is that all sports are fixed. Thomas threw that ball to Bird on purpose to make sure the NBA had a Lakers/Celtics NBA Finals; he cashed in his bets and threw the 1988 series faking his injury, which is why he got 2 rings (payback for 1987 and 1988). The NBA made a big issue out of nothing. What Thomas said was 100% accurate and there was no outrage from black people about this comment. So what's the big deal?

[Flipper79able]

@3DStoneCt Oh, I know you. You are a fucking nut job you know that. Ha ha ha. I won't even talk to you because you are so crazy. I would get more from have a serious conversation with a 6 year old. Good night.

[THEspooger1373]

@3DStoneCt Ya that would be true except Bird is a far superior player than Thomas, Magic even said he was one of the toughest players he's ever guarded, he drove Dominique crazy, he would drive everyone crazy. Skin color shouldn't be mentioned at all in this case because Bird is a better player than Thomas and will always be viewed that way, not because he's white but because he played the game at a higher level than him.

[3DStoneCt]

@THEspooger1373 Bird wasn't better than Isiah. Larry went to a franchise that was already about titles. Zeke went to a franchise that hadn't done anything and built them from the ground up. Bird never won back-to-back titles like Isiah. Bird was just a better forward than Isiah but that's it. Plain and simple. Isiah beat Bird in the playoffs more than Bird beat Isiah. Thomas had to give the ball to Bird in 1987 to help Bird win (but that was fixed anyway). Bird did average things on the court.

[THEspooger1373]

@3DStoneCt Sure, u can argue that they're completely different players but Bird was the one who accomplished more and had a much more devastating impact on the game that isiah. The argument you make regarding already having a team to work with is invalid because they all needed role players to win, isiah wouldve never won without dumars, lambeer salley, rodman etc. Bird would've never won without mchale, parish, etc. The same can be said with all of the other greats.

[3DStoneCt]

@THEspooger1373 Bird didn't accomplish more. Isiah was 2 time MVP of the All-Star game (1984, 1986). Isiah had only the 3rd franchise in NBA history to win back-to-back titles. Bird had a better team around him. Only Joe Dumars is in the Hall of Fame for Detroit outside of Isiah, and Thomas made Dumars great. Bird never made Parish, McHale, Bill Walton, or DJ Hall of Famers. Of course it takes a team to win but head-to-head in the playoffs, Isiah beat Bird more. Isiah brought Indiana a title.

[THEspooger1373]

@3DStoneCt ? Bird was a 3 time MVP, 2 time Finals MVp an All Star MVP. he has a better shot, better courtvision, his basketball iq cannot be touched by isiah and he was a better teamate. Bird was overall the better player

[usnate1]

@3DStoneCt When Bird missed 76 games in the 1989 season, Boston replaced him with Reggie Lewis (who was 2nd in most improved player voting), yet the Celtics slipped from 57 wins to 40, despite having Lewis, Kevin McHale, and Robert Parish on the roster.

[usnate1]

@3DStoneCt If you doubt his ability to improve a random group of players, look at what he did in college - he took a team of no-names to a near perfect season. His first year in the NBA, without McHale and Parish, he turned the Celtics from a 29-win joke to the best record in basketball. When he missed 1989, they fell apart without him. Oscar Robertson is ahead of him because he was more versatile and played better defense.

[usnate1]

@3DStoneCt If you doubt his ability to improve a random group of players, look at what he did in college - he took a team of no-names to a near perfect season. His first year in the NBA, without McHale and Parish, he turned the Celtics from a 29-win joke to the best record in basketball. without him. The celts had no won a title in 12 years.

[usnate1]

@3DStoneCt His first year, bird improved the Celtics 32 games in the win-loss. When he missed 76 games in the 1989 season, Boston replaced him with Reggie Lewis (who was 2nd in most improved player voting), yet the Celtics slipped from 57 wins to 40, despite having Lewis, Kevin McHale, and Robert Parish on the roster.

[usnate1]

@3DStoneCt f you doubt his ability to improve a random group of players, look at what he did in college - he took a team of no-names to a near perfect season. His first year in the NBA, without McHale and Parish, he turned the Celtics from a 29-win joke to the best record in basketball. When he missed 1989, they fell apart without him.

[netpup]

Anybody who labels THAT comment as racist....I have a label for you.Retard. Why? 3 reasons, retard: 1. In The Celtics postgame, it was obvious that Thomas REALLY made the statement to deflect media attention off Rodman who at that point was too shy and immature to handle the backlash. 2. Nobody lost a job, get sent to the back of a bus, was enslaved, or died from that comment.. 4. It was wrapped in a goddamn COMPLIMENT. You don't call someone an exceptional talent during a racist tirade.

[dogeban]

racism has no colour dudes

[robomanification]

@dogeban so true.

[dogeban]

@robomanification ;)

[Nebel64]

Hahah what the eff?? They give him a trial, complete with audio tapes, during halftime?? hahahah

[m4rab]

Racism goes in many directions! Black, Latino, White, or indiffernt! Racism happens all the time, no matter what the color! Wake up, people really just use excuses, to make excuses for their short-comings!

[klabkebash]

Remember Bird hired Isaiah to replace him as the coach of the Pacers back in the 90's. So if Bird really thought he was a racist, he wouldn't of had. 

[jorge082694]

This whole interview was unnecessary... I cant imagine this interview even taking place at this time... I find the reporter extremely irritating, and making a racist matter out of nothing.

[Flipper79able]

@jorge082694 What do you mean he made a racist matter out of nothing. Isiah said a that if he were black he would just be another good guy. That's a racist comment. Can you imagine if it was a white guy saying it about a black guy? It would be all over the news.

[dpmarty007]

No such thing as a black racist!

[Survivor87]

@dpmarty007 door swings both ways, in order to be equal we all must have the same standards

[alabaster30]

Absolutely. Sam Phillips (the head of Sun Records) saw that this 'black' music (Howlin Wolf, BB King, etc.) was something special. He along with other producers and execs knew that this music would sell but they had to have a white man put it across to white America. Otherwise it would never have been accepted. They not only needed a white man with a good voice, but one who was good looking and could dance. Elvis couldn't have come at a more perfect time and he was the complete package.

[rusty1491]

Isaiah's comment was very similar to what Rush Limbaugh said on ESPN. The only difference is that Rush wasn't forgiven.

[FuckUtube2008]

@rusty1491 last i checked, rush limbaugh is still on the air making millions spewing his venomous hatred, so i'd say, whatever he said, he was more then forgiven for it. you ovbiously forgave him and i'm sure all his white listeners forgiven him along with several black listeners. so you're comment is clearly based on emotion and not logic.

[rusty1491]

@FuckUtube2008 I say Rush Limbaugh wasn't forgiven because he was fired from ESPN and wasn't allowed to be partial owner of an NFL team. Isaiah Thomas and Rush Limbaugh said essentially the same thing. No one has questioned whether Isaiah's opinion should excluded him from being a commentator, owner or coach.

[natedaug1]

@rusty1491 Yes, there is a double standard. White people are treated much harsher, when they say racially insensitive remarks. I think it has to do though, with the long history of racial injustice in America by whites on blacks, and thus is turned into "white guilt." Sadly neither Isiah nor Bird had anything to do with that past, but that is because as William Faulkner said, "The past is never dead, in fact it is not even the past."

[BigdogH201]

@rusty1491 In 87, you could say anything and get away with it. In 2003, it was a more PC time.

[44BigHitter]

There was nothing "humorous" about Isiah's and Rodman's BIGOTED comments about Bird. Rodman the great defender got eaten alive by Bird. Bird was telling Rodman when and where he was going to score on him. Isiah then and now is a total idiot.

[CreekmoreBanks1977]

One more reason to dislike Brent Musburger. The false equivalency he makes here comparing Isiah's comments to Al Campanis' comments is pretty distasteful. Isiah was a basketball player making a (supposedly humorous) comment about Bird's portrayal in the media. It was a fair, perhaps off-base, criticism. Campanis was a baseball executive who claimed blacks did not have the capacity to work in management. Campanis was making decisions for an baseball organization based on his racial prejudice.

[alabaster30]

A lot of black guys can't stand to see an Elvis, a Larry Bird or an Eminem succeed in a predominately black artform/sport.

[cbaldwinjr]

@alabaster30

A lot of black guys can't stand that Elvis, Bird, and Eminem get adulation and credit for working in an art form largely enhanced or created altogether by blacks. Don't follow up stupid WITH stupid. That's where the problem lies. Elvis is the 'king' even though he ripped off black blues performers in Memphis and men like Bo Diddley and John Lee Hooker got ignored. Eminem is a great emcee but even HE admits 'if i was black, i wouldn't sell half' in his song White America.

[alabaster30]

First off, I can agree with you to a certain point. But I don't think it's fair to say Bo Diddley or JLH were 'ignored'. Or that the Beastie Boys are inferior emcees. It's not fair to even put Beastie Boys in the same sentence with NKOTB or Vanilla White. Sorry. I think we can all admit Elvis was great, but maybe not as great as Howlin' Wolf or Ray Charles. But Larry Bird was definitely a better player than Isiah. And I think with him (Thomas), it was a personal vendetta. He hated this fact.

[cbaldwinjr]

@alabaster30

Bird>Thomas. Any sane person could see that. I'm not defending Isiah. I am saying there's a connection as to why the artists I mentioned sold more and received more recognition in spite of being inferior. Code words like "marketable" are thinly veiled ways of saying they were white lol. It's not formula man, but it's as obvious as the nose on our faces. Elvis WAS great. But if you think that his skin tone didn't play into it, that's naive. And the Beastie Boys were inferior emcees!

[alabaster30]

Absolutely. Sam Phillips (the head of Sun Records) saw that this 'black' music (Howlin Wolf, BB King, etc.) was something special. He along with other producers and execs knew that this music would sell but they had to have a white man put it across to white America. Otherwise it would never have been accepted. They not only needed a white man with a good voice, but one who was good looking and could dance. Elvis couldn't have come at a more perfect time and he was the complete package.

[alabaster30]

He was pissed because Bird was great. As were/are many black players. It's a black man's game, let's face it. It's just like Elvis Presley in rockn'roll music. Elvis was good, but black performers complained because he was dubbed by white America "the king". The "king" or not, he was an extremely talented performer, and this simply alienates a lot of black artists who have come before, perhaps rightfully so.

[cbaldwinjr]

@alabaster30

Let's be real...white America has a history of stepping over black talent in all forms of entertainment to support white ones. That's how the Beastie Boys could be large even though they were grossly inferior out the box as emcees. That's how VANILLA FUCKING ICE could sell 11 million albums. That's how New Kids on The Block could see 4x as many albums as New Edition even though the whole world could see they were just a white carbon copy of them. It says something about America.

[jeffnfoxylady1]

it was a joke on the other hand when you got a white guy good like larry bird that was good at a sopposley black mans game it gets more maginified we need more white stars in da game today

[Flipper79able]

He wasn't joking. please.... I could care less, but he wasn't joking he was pissed off about losing the game. Bird handled it with grace.

[sg500]

well alot of truth is spoken in the mist of jest.

[acox11]

Isiah was the very big here. And he should have cleared this controversy up with the way he answered these questions. He showed a lot of poise. It's unfortunate the media and league seemed to punish him for this the rest of his career. He never made All-NBA-Team again after this controversy and it has plagued him non-stop because many people didn't give him the benefit of the doubt after this. But a lot of people never saw this video.

[lawyer4obama]

it was a joke

[bubufubu]

Coming from someone who knows nothing about Isiah, that kind of comment says A LOT about you as a person.

[lovesvinylchicks]

I always wanted to smack that smug smile off Isiah's face

[DaCaptain924]

Bingo. There's a lotta Bad Boy behing that choir boy face. He and Rodman made a real boo-boo talking smack @ Bird.