A Dangerous cult founded by a conman Russell and futer controlled by a [controlling] conman Rutherford and run by 12 powerful conmen. They have brought more misery and pain on individuals and families. They should be xposed for what they are
Lu12:49 “I came 2 start a fire on the earth, & what more is there 4 me 2 wish if it has already been lighted?...51 Do U imagine I came 2 give peace on the earth? No, indeed,..., but rather division. 52 For from now on there will b 5 in 1 house divided, 3 against 2 & 2 against 3. 53 They will b divided, father against son & son against father, mother against
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Do u believe that the above would have resulted in shunning?
Do u keep close ties w/those who disregard ur beliefs?
@MALACHAI39 he never answers the people that prove him to be a fool. He is afraid of the further ramifications and complications of additional interaction with them/us. Each and every verse they post contradicts a previous post that they made. The father , Son and Holy spirit? The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of god, the Son is the Son of God, the Father is the Father of God...WAIT? what I meant was...see, that just wont work, its a LIE, so lets NOT speak about it. RELATIONSHIP??with who?
@abbyguy Sry, just now saw this post to me. Salvation seems to be all anybody worries about. ME ME ME, how am I saved, What must I do, My Reward, Jesus saved Me, and so on.
In a nutshell, Your relationship with God(The Father) is the same as your relationship with your father or with your son.(if it is as it should be). Is it what you want from your father or what you want FOR your father? Is it what you want from your son or what you want FOR your son?
@HolyRollerSpirit1: That makes no sense at all. Of course I'm worried about salvation, what else is there? If I am not saved how can I tell others who then can be saved?? You say it like it's a bad thing?!
That's what the whole bible is about...redemption through Jesus Christ and how we can get it. The gospels tell us how to recieve it and then to pass on the knowledge through personal example and spreading it verbally. Jesus is the ONLY way, he said "I am the way the truth and the life..."
@MALACHAI39: You seem to think this scripture gives you the right to shun, NOT! It simply tells us that there will be division, disagreements, opposition and so on but the bible NER EVER says not to love our enemies. In fact Jesus told us to LOVE our enemies. Enemies meaning all those in opposition to our beliefs, personally or theologically.
Are we more likely to help people find God by rejecting them or by walking beside them and saying I love you, no matter what you do. As Jesus did.
The JWs are in a deep Hypnotic trance; It will take an experienced Hypnotis to wake them up. They dont here you, their under the control of those 20000 meeting a week dude!
You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
JWS refuse the Scriptures that testify about Jesus. & JWS refuse to come to Jesus to have life. So sad!
According to the WTS, yes. Although, I believe that your society used to teach that my 'holier than thou pope' was none other than Michael the Archangel. Does that make him Jesus? I will have to disagree!
In my earlier response, I meant, "register with the UN".
I only have the 1918 "Finished Mystery" & did not see it, I assume that what I should be looking for is the 1917? It is said to state that Michael the Archangel is the pope of Rome on p. 188.
"Michael and his angels"--the papacy and its supporters--fought against the dragon--pagan rulers, etc.,-- and the great dragon was cast out of heaven. Zion's Watch Tower 1879 December p.6 (Re : Rev 12:7)
Zion's Watch Tower 1879 November p.4 also states that Michael the Archangel worships Jesus.
@fezik82 fez..early on, we were coming out of the dark as to who Christ is, fulfillment of prophecy, etc..so, yes, there ARE mistakes made. And those mistakes have since been corrected! We continually study the bible in order to make sure of the more important things.
I completely understand mistakes... I really do. The uneasiness for me is that these mistakes were taught as complete truth... & people believed it. I am pointing out this quote for one reason only, although it is only one example :
"Now we appear like men, and all die naturally like men, but in the resurrection we will rise in our true character as Gods." ~12/1881 WT p301
You & I both know that God is a jealous God, & this is a blasphemous teaching. CONT...
Could such a teaching jeopardize ones salvation? I only assume. I have not seen corrections made for many of the most drastic mistakes, in fact we are told :
"There is no one in present truth today who can honestly say that he received a knowledge of the divine plan from any source other than by the ministry of Brother Russell, either directly or indirectly" ~5/1/1922 WT p. 132
Could what is taught as truth that is essential for salvation today later be found to be a mistake?
I apologize, I am leaving for the day and will have to respond to your question regarding what I believe the early society referenced as the "divine plan" tonight or tomorrow. Have a great day =)!
Actually, I can sum the "Divine Plan" up by offering a suggestion. If you wouldn't mind looking for and downloading, "The Divine Plan of the Ages and the Great Pyramid" by Charles Russell (copyright is expired, you can find this for free, I believe it can be found in "archive(dot)org"), you will see all that the plan entails... prior to and after The Lord's return. I believe that "divine plan" is not meant to be summed up into a few 500 character posts!
@fezik8 The quote you are looking at is actually true! He is speaking of those of the annointed (the 144,000)..when they are resurrected to heaven, they will have the same kind of body God has..the bible says God is a spirit..the angels are spirits..Jesus was raised a mighty spirit..and the angels are called gods..they are mighty ones..and so, those of the annointed who are now in heaven have spirit bodies..in the same form as God.
I did not realize that this was still being taught. Please pardon my ignorance, but am I understanding correctly? Is this to say that the 144,000 will rise to become "God"? Or are there to be many "Gods"? Not to bombard you with questions, but if I understood correctly... does this mean that once the body of Christ is complete, Christ will be "God"?
@TheMrlovett It was an indirect quote. Notice the quotation marks. Since you don't seem to get it, let me ask you this, do you agree with brofun's answer as to why the WTS is associated with the UN?
@TheMrlovett Well "daaah", shouldn't your comment be aimed at brofun, since he's the one who said, and I quote, "It was simply a way of gaining access to their library and information on their activities that would allow us to see what the beast was doing and we reported many of their actions..good and bad."?
I thought the WTS taught that God isn't omnipresent. Maybe He needs a helping hand!
@fezik82 Simply to use their extensive library and to recieve reports on their activities. That is all..there was no intent to compromise..and as stated many times, the verbage of the application proved no compromising by applying..but over a period of years, that changed and excaped our attention..once it was brougbht to our attention, we removed ourselves from the list of ngo/ dpi..
@fezik82 Yeah..not sure why he said that..we became an ngo/dpi in order to have reports and access to the library..neither of which constitute a compromise of faith.
@fezik82 I don't feel put on the spot at all. JWs are as imperfect as any other human on earth..we all make mistakes..we all misunderstand, misstate, etc etc..I try to be as understanding of those things as I want other to be understanding when I misspeak!
@Catch22here Yes, it was voluntary..and it was not a compromise in any way. The UN is special only in that it is going to be the eighth king..the one whom all the kings of the earth will give their authority. There is no compromise involved here. But, if you do not want to believe that..you are welcome to your opinion!
@Catch22here I am associated with the united states government by having a soscial security card, paying taxes, etc..but, that is not the kind of association that corithians is speaking about. Paul was associated with the Roman government for he was a roman citizen..there was no compromise in being one..just as there was no compromise in applying to be a ngo/dpi under the verbage of the aggreement. I hope this clears it up for you.
@Catch22here I think you are misunderstanding, or misapplying the word association. By being a dpi/ngo, it doesn't mean we associated with the UN..1cor 15:33 is speaking of association in people we 'hang out' with. If a person associates with say, a drunkard..he might be tempted to become drunk..or if you associate with an immoral person, you could be tempted to become drunk. And, we do tend to judge others by the company they keep..so, one's reputation can also be affected.
@Catch22here Go back to the site I sent..read the whole thing..look at the documents..then make up your own mind. It's a choice of yours to either belive we are guilty of compromise or not. And, I did not say the watchtower was not associated. They became associated as a ngo/dpi. In the verbage of 1991, there is nothing there that would indicate a compromise of our faith, or our stand on being neutral. You may choose to believe as you wish.
@Catch22here By signing the document in the early nineties, it did not mean we were associated with the UN. It was simply a way of gaining access to their library and information on their activities that would allow us to see what the beast was doing and we reported many of their actions..good and bad. Just like signing papers stateing citizenship offers many benefits, and in most cases does not include a compromise. You may choose to believe as you wish. You have the evidence. your choice
@brofun It is an absolute fabrication that one needed to be an NGO to enter and use the library. The Watchtower could have easily "kept an eye" on the beast without becoming an NGO.
@21crosscheck21 It is NOT a fabrication at all. Did you even read the site I sent you? we became ngo/dpi..dept of public information. To gain access, we applied in 1991..I was wrong about one thing..there was no need to reapply..only to renew the people whom we would send who would have access. Without those cards, we could not gain access. Why do you feel the need to misrepresent? The photostats of those application forms are there for you to see and read. believe the truth? or the lie?
@Catch22here I understand..the best you can do is take our word for it..or accuse us of dishonesty. And there are always those who will assign dishonorable motives to others. Jesus said 'they will lyingly say every sort of wicked thing about you'..so, believing those sites and persons who portray us in a terrible light would be listening to propaganda. We have not, nor ever will compromise..at least to the best of our ability..we are not perfect.
Moses,David,Abraham, could not fulfil what Jesus fulfilled what Jesus fulfilled was not fulfilled by MOhd(SAW?) what Mohd(SAW?) couldnt fulfill was fulfilled by the sufis what could not be fulfilled by the Bahais God will fulfil when?
@Catch22here again..no double standard..the shunning is ONLY for those who have rebelled against Jehovah after having made a vow and dedication to god. It does not mean we shun people of the world (those who do not knw Jeohvah)..again, you may believe as you like. It was an innocent move to become a dpi..there was no compromise..but, as time went on and the requiremnts changed, we didnt' catch it. We are not perfect people..but, as I see it..it was an innocent mistake..there was no evil.
@Catch22here Again, a disfellowshipped person is one who has dedicated their life to God..by choosing to either become apostate, or willfully practicing what jehovah hates, the bring upon themselves, and their loved ones, the process of disfellowshipping and shunning. Yes, it was necessary to use the library..it wasn't open to anyone. Did you read the site I sent you? You can say it 'sounds contrived'..but, it's not. You just don't want to accept that is was innocent.
@Catch22here Catch..view it as you like. There was no compromise of faith. All the nations stand in opposition to Jehovah..they will ALL take their stand against God's son at armageddon..but, we use the benefits of our respective nations as we see fit, and as long as we do not compromise our faith. There is nothing here to convict us of compromise..we simply used a way of accessing the library and reports of UN activities around the world..when the requirements were changed, we quit.
@Catch22here But, after it was brought to our attnetion that the verbage had changed and DID represent a compromise, we quickly removed ourselves. when it comes to disfellowshipped ones, these are people who, after having made a vow to serve God by water baptism, chose to willfully practice sin and refused to repent. Paul gives us the counsel on how to deal with that. Does it cause pain?.yes, but it is the sinner that brings this on himself..he/she knows what Jehovah requires
@Catch22here Sorry, you are discussing two different situations. We correspond with the governments all the time. Corresponding with them is no violation of our stand. It is not associating. It is dealing with them to conduct business. I correspond with the governemnt when I pay my taxes, when I ask for information, etc. I have a social security card. You seem intent on not recognizing that in the begining, the verbage of the application did not represent any compromise..
@Catch22here But, there are many aspects of the world in general that we are part of..we eat the food that is produced by the world's farmers..we work in the many feilds of business that is manufactured by the business men of the world..we drive on the roads..we borrow money from the banks that are regualted by the nations, etc etc etc. Does this mean that we have become part of the world that is alienated?..no, It simply means we are IN the world, but no part of the world.
@Catch22here We are IN the world..but no part of it. The part we are no part of is any activitiy that would be viewed as a compromise. The worlds lowering moral standards are not Gods..so, we strive to keep the high standards. The nations political and war activities are in opposition to God, so we strive to remain neutral. The UN will be the eighth king spoken in revelation..and the time will come when it will require all people of the earth to 'wortship' it in some form..we will refuse.
@Catch22here that would cause us to feel we had compromised. But, over time, the verbage changed and we did not catch it until someone pointed it out to us..we thanked that person publically and removed ourselves from that list. There was no bad association, nor hypocrisy.
@Catch22here I've discussed this eariler..we do not associate with that governmental agency..but, we use whatever benefits our citizenship allows for as long as there is no compromise. Take for instance, the YMCA. I would like to join..but, in their paper work that I would have to sign, it states that I believe as they do and associate myself with there religious organization..even tho there would be no religious actiivity. Same with the dpi application..originally, there was no verbage..
@Catch22here CAtch..you don't see the connection because you don't read the bible, or llive by it. Paul very very clearly says 'do not associatie with anyone called a brother (this is someone who has dedicated their life to God and made a vow to live by his standards) who is a fornicator, idolator, drunkard, etc etc..not even greeting or eating with such a man'. He is a criminal in the eyes of God..THAT is the connection. The congregation is protected by removing the willful sinner.
@Catch22here attention, we immediatly withdrew it. Don't make this into something it is not. I use my citezenship to go to local librairies...that does not mean that I am in support of the local governments. It simply means that I use my benefits as a citizen as long as doing so does not constitute a compromise of faith..like pledging my aligance to the flag. But while we are on the subject..let me ask you this..Do you support war? If drafted..would you go and kill people?
@Catch22here All the nations of the earth are considerd part of the wild beast..we are all 'associated by our citizenship' in that sense..that doesn't mean we are part of the world..and using the benefits of our citizenship as long as we do not compromise our faith is not a sin. Under the verbage of becoming a dpi, there was no sin. but, over a few years, as that site pointed out, the verbage changed..and the brother/s who was doing the signing did not catch it..but when brought to our att.
@Catch22here Fear? POssibly..the shepherds fear that a lawless one who is allowed to associate with the other sheep would cause them to stray also..this goes along with 1 cor 15:33 'do not be misled, bad association spoils useful habits'. Paul set the example when he had the young man who was having sex with his step mother thrwon out of the congregation..but, later, the man repented, and paul counseled them to accept him back with love.
@Catch22here LOL..I don't really see the connection. You can dodge a red hot poker..and you can implore the police to do something about a lawless household in your neighbor hood..and probably would. The elders are charged with protecting the flock..if a person who is a member of that flock who has vowed to follow Jehovah's laws chooses to practice sin willfully, the bible is VERY CLEAR on how to handle that.
@Catch22here Jesus was there to preach and teach these ones..he ate with them and spoke with them to teach them the truths..but, when a person has learned the truth, he is under a greater responsibility..for he has dedicated his life to God. Breaking that vow willfully requiires discipline. And the bible lines this out. Paul is not saying to shun people in general ..for we are to preach and teach..but he said "anyone called a brother'..don't greet, eat, ec with him.
@Catch22here All governments are symbolised by wild beasts. We believe the beast that came out of the earth with two horns of a lamb and a head of a dragon is the anglo american world power. As governments on earth, christians are allowed to use their services which our taxes pay for..it is not a compromise. The roman government was symbolised by a large bear with long claws and teeth..and Paul used his citizenship to his advantage. the SS admin is simply an administration of gov.
@Catch22here by removing the man..several things are accomplished..the congregation is put on alert that this one is no longer good association and they are not allowed to associate with hm until he repents and is accepted back. It keeps the congregation clean. It disciplines the willful sinner. And it shows a love for rightousness on the part of the congregation. Those who practice those willful sins without reprenting will NOT inherit God's kingdom.
@Catch22here You would not want someone who was a known and practiciing criminal to move into the house next door to you..right? No, you would want the policie to take action..to arrest such a man to protect you and your family. The elders in the congregation are under much the same obligation..altho they are no police, they are to 'know positively the appearance of your flock'. This means they keep an eye on things..and when one is willfully pracicing sin, unrepentent..they are removed.
@Catch22here that is why paul said "quit associating with anyone CALLED A BROTHER, who is a fornicator, idolator, greedy person, etc etc. The brother who chooses to practice gross sin is sinning with knowledge about God..and after he has made a vow, thru baptism, to uphold Jehovah's laws..so, he is certainly under much greater responsibility. And the elders are instructed by Paul to remove such a man if he is unrepentent. This isn't much different than a government incarcerating criminals.
@Catch22here I addressed the UN above. as for the disfellowshipping..the bible very clearly shows that there IS a double standard. One for those who have dedicated their lives to Jehovah and promised to do his will and live by his standards..and those who are outside the congregation. Those outside do not know Jehovah or his laws..so, we talk with them about the bible..to help them..to teach them if they are willing..but, those in the congregation come under greater responsibility..
@Catch22here That is your opinon..the UN is a governmental agency..and Paul speaks of working to legally establish teh good news. We all live under government agencys..and the bible does not prohibit us to use them for protection and/or the services they provide..however, if those governmental agencies ask us to break integrity to God..then we refuse..like when the government asks us to become soldiers, or support war in any way..we refuse. Jesus said to pay our taxes..so, we pay our taxes
@Catch22here Hey catch..if you want the whole picture, I'll send you a link..can't seem to post it here..must be against the rules..I'll message it to you,.
@Catch22here Yes, I am..if you would like the website that has the pic of the documents, I may have it..you can see that this is really a tempest in a pot of tea..in fact, it was one of our detractors who brought it to our attention..and that person was thanked for his letting us know..(if I remember right)..will have to recheck my resources!
@Catch22here Just so we are on the same page..what scripture are you referring to where disrupter is used..I want to be accurate and make sure I understand your question right.
@Catch22here and, once we became aware that the wording had changed to one that said would would support the UN in it's actiivites and goals, we removed ourselves from the NGO status. There was no intention of deciept or hypocrisy. We make use of the laws and provisions of our governments..all of which stand in opposition to God's kingdom..and we have that right. As long as we do not compromise our stand of neutraility..there is no sin in using the provisions.
@Catch22here The document was simply an asking of permission to use their library and recieve the info on teh activities of the UN. We also have the right to ask for information from the united states..we have social security numbers..again, these are not compromises of our faith. Now, if the UN asks us to endorse them or claim aligiance to them..we would not have applied for the NGO status. because of the change over time in teh documents, changes that went unnoticed, we became aware
@Catch22here Again, I know what a disrupter is..but, I am not sure what you are asking..are you asking what I would do if an apostate got in my face down town with a placard or pamphlets or something? Are you asking if I would shun them?
@Catch22here I have also researched this also..the documents that we signed to be ngo was changed over the years..the first few years, we signed on because there was nothing in the documents that would cause us to compromise..but later, they were subtly changed..and someone pointed it out to us..we then removed ourselves from being on that list. There was never a willful sinning going on..we wanted access to the vast library and to be notified of UN activiities..and we were...
@Catch22here ok..on your videos. I'll begin to post what is inaccurate..I'll find one, listen to it..and write down the inaccuracies and then post. Look forward to discussing it.
@Catch22here The bible clearly warns us at 1cor 15:33..do not be misled, bad associations spoill useful habits'. Paul's counsel was clear, 'remove the wicked man from among you'. These are princples that are given to protect the congregation from those who would cause harm to others spiritually, or tempt them to get invovled in wrongdoing also. As for apostates, Paul clearly warned that they are like rocks seeking to shipwreck the faith of others. Jesus siad the devil wants to milead us.
@Catch22here Not sure what you mean by a disruptor..so I'll wait for clarification on that point. and what do you mean 'where ever you encounter them?
As for Christ eatings with the sinners..he came to help people..but, once these ones accept the help, come to an accurate knowledge of the bibl and dedicate their lives to god, they are expected to keep the laws and standards that are outlined..if they choose to practice things Jehovah condemns unrepentently, they are disfellowshipped.
@Catch22here You post alot of videos about JWs..and i don't find them accurate in their presentation. So, yes, I would like to discuss these things in depth. I posted why we disfellowship..and you didn't seem to think it was loving. but, it IS loving..it protects the congregation from those who willfully practice sin..and it can shock a sinner into repenting if he has refused...or, in some cases, it frees the sinner to do as he wishes..wihtout pressure from those in the flock or family.
@Catch22here You aren't understanding..it's the PRACTICE of sin..we all stumble and fall..but, we can get back up..but, if we choose to PRACTICE sin unrepentently, then the elders follow paul's counsel and remove the wicked man from among them. but, if they choose to stop the practice..and they want to come back to Jehovah..they are welcome.
@Catch22here Being a drunkard is one of the sins listed that a person will not inherit the kingdom for if he practices it. the bible outlines those sins that would cause one to lose out if he/she chose to practice it. As for 'brand of sin? We all sin..but there are sins that are willful and bad..and then there are the sins that come from the fallen flesh..but, it is the PRACTICE of sin that can cause one to lose their life. Disfellowshipping is a last resort for one who is unrepentant.
@Catch22here I meant did I say you should have been able to infer that I had been reinstated. That's all.. If a person chooses to go against the teachings of the bible as we see it..they have the right to leave. No one is held against their will. Are there consequences?..yes. Are those consequences painful?..yes! But, it is discipline from Jehovah..if a person chooses to practrice what is wrong, or turn apostate, they lose the association of the congregation.
@Catch22here Did I say that?..nope...I merely cleared it up. ok..no problem. How do you view the way paul said to deal with the young man who was having sex with his step mother? Was he not cast out..and shunned?
and, how do you view paul's counsel to not eat, speak, greet, anyone called a brother who is a fornicator, adulterer, drunkard, etc.?
@Catch22here LOL..I suppose that the past tense escaped you. I've been reinstated now for over fifteen yeas..and my daughter was reinstated about five years ago. So, now that you have that cleared up..would you like to address the original thought?
@Catch22here Well, the best thing to do is start with the simple things. it's easy to become frustrated when you look at the whole thing. that is why we conduct bible studies with people using study aids..the bible covers a tremendous amount of information..and it's deep. But, we start simply. In our book 'what does the bible really teach'..we begin with 'who is God..who is Jesus..who is satan. what is the kingdom..etc. So, why don't we start with a simple subject.
@Catch22here What do you mean "they mean what they say or don't? Can you claify for me? I've been disfellowshipped..and so was my daughter..so I am in a postiion to speak on it quite well. Do I need to answer some questions?..can you ask me some that might shed light upon it for you?
1cor 5:9-13. Paul is telling faithful ones how to deal with those who LEAVE Jehovah. Paul dealt with one in the corinthian congregation..a young man who was having sex with his step mother..and the congregation was tolerating it..Paul said 'remove the wicked man from among you'. I have been disfellowshipped. It was not pleasant..but, it yeilded very good fruit in me..because I stopped doing what was wrong, and returned to Jehovah.
The Watchtower refuses to get it because the shunning (Disfellowshipping), is a fear tactic to stop their captives from leaving. Interestingly, at the back of the NWT word index if you look at 'Disfellowshipping' the scriptures it uses are to do with being thrown out of a Synagogue. Cover up or what!?!?
@PuNkOfNiCe LOL..it doesn't stop people from leaving. I can leave at any time if I like. I know the consequences if I do. If I choose to become apostate, or choose to practice things that are wicked, those who love Jehovah won't have anything to do with me. It's the consequence of practicing what is wicked in the christian congregation! Under the mosaic law, when Isreal was doing God's will, those things were punishable by death! Disfellowshipping leaves you the chance to come back.
@brofun Hi, friend, I don't understand why you are looking at 'apostate' sites if you are such a 'spiritually strong' brother. The F&DS have forbidden JW's to look at these sites. Does your Co-ordinatir of the body of Elders know? Please tell me what he says. PS. You can't count 'time' with me - I'm 'baptized'! Seriously, let me know. ;=)
@PuNkOfNiCe punk..youtube is not an apostate site..but, of course, the apostates do like to try ot mislead people..and I come to places in order to help those who might hear the words of people who hate JWs..and might be intersted..and I am conducting several private conversations as a result of these discussions..
This is far too generic, CC. There are plenty of examples where Jesus rejects the wicked or the disobedient, like the five foolish virgins. So there is a distinction between those who are weak and sinful and those who deliberately reject God and Christ whom Christ condemns. There will be "grapes of wrath", so your discussion is inapplicable in the big picture. Nice vid backgrounds!!
Christ (Messiah), was sent to the Jews..specifically..and he did heal the Phoenician woman's daughter because she believed and persisted although she was not an Israelite and even Jesus, as an Israelite, considered her as a "little dog" because she was from the pagans...so this shows that he was healing the sinful Israelites and associating with them...Matt 15: 21-28. There is much to discover in God's Word.
My freind just like Punk of Nice at the bottom thinks he was captured for 50 years,well let me tell you one thing no body absolutely no body not even JW will fprce you to do what you want o do,because at the end like the bible says each and evry one of us will have to respond to god,when jesus comes to judge us.so all this people that say that they are being mind controlled by JW is absurd,i ve been a JW for 29 years,and evry thing all this people say is just funny the way they think
We didn't make the rules but we follow them 1-Adam and Eve expelled from garden Gn 3:24. 2-Clear out what is bad or evil from your midst Dt 13:5 and 17:7. 3-Keep eye on those causing division and avoid them Rom 16:17. 4-Remove the wicked from among yourselves 1Cor5:13. 5-Withdraw from every brother walking disorderly 2Thes3:6 6-No association with disobedient one's 1Thes 3:14. 7-Reject a man promoting a sect Titus 3:10. 8-Do not greet those leaving teachings of Christ 2Jn8-11 Gods rules not ours
Hey 21crosscheck 21 i would like to have a conversation with you, you can call me at 956 6818588. we got a lon chat ahead of us. regarding jw dont get it.
no you dont get it! the reason they doit is only one.like an apple thats contaminated or rotten if you leave it with rest of the apples,what will happen the rest will slowly rotten by that one influence if we want to stay spiritually intact of course we are going to stay away for one reason. 1 timothy 4:1. 2 thessalonians 2:3 acts:20:30 2 peter 2:1,3. luke:6:46 Jude 8,11 important . numbers:16:1-3,11,19-21. 2 timothy:2:16-18. 2 jhon: 9,10. romans:16:17,18. proverbs:11:9.
Watchtower = cult mind control. I should know I was under their hypnosis 50 years! Thanks to reading the Bible without the watchtower I am now born again! Saved! To a JW I am a demonized apostate. Not to Jesus!!
@PuNkOfNiCe yes..because you are claiming that you are doing all sorts of good things in jesus name..but he clearly shows that there would be those who claimed it..but would be told Jesus never knew you..and that you were working lawlessness. By believing things taht are untrue about God and Christ..by refusing to do his will, by taking part in the affairs of the wordly nations that are in opposition to Christ's kingdom..etc..this is a warning to all to carefully examine where they stand.
@jakev25 I have a question for you. Do you think the watchtower society has the right to judge all other religions by saying that only jws have a hope of surviving Armageddon? And, that god speaks through Only their organization?
This shows me that they are taking gods place and judging everyone on the planet. This also shows that you could love god believe in the ransom sacrifice, be a great person and still die because you aren't a jw.
The example of jesus when he criticized the religion of the time,he critisized them because he new that the practices and the laws were altered by them.so no there is no wrong in talking the truth of religion that practices bible the wrong way.
@oskaipwn Do you believe in truth? Do you believe that satan has oversowed the feild with weeds? do you understand 2nd thess 2? Do you believe that satan can turn himself into an angel of light, and his minsters do the same?..do you think Jesus has a divided and conflicted message on the kingdom? Do you believe that God is a trinity?..or that God is almighty, and his son is his son..? You see, these are issues that DO make a difference. Who is the father of the lie?..and what are the lies
Ok first of all, Jehovah Witnesses avoid the people that leave because they could influence others to do bad stuff. Unlike us humans, Jesus was perfect...so maybe thats why Jesus was able to talk to them. And actually when you say they "don't take the time to say 'hello' to them" you are incorrect...when the person does something wrong, he or she gets talked to by the Elders...they offer their help and are willing to do anything to make them feel better.
11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”
What you have to do Brian, along with your wake of Bible detractors (for that is what they are all against. Jehovah's Witnesses did not invent this doctrine nor were they the first to use it.) is explain how the Scriptures the Bible directs at the church on how to treat unrepentant wrongdoers, should be interpreted.
Can you do that for us?
Or, as everyone else I've seen oppose this Bible teaching, do you only disparage JWs complete dedication in following the Bible, even the hard parts?
@nibornagrom I take offense at your suggestion that Jehovah's Witnesses are following the Bible in their disfellowshipping policy. Why? Because I was disfellowshipped because I didn't believe JW teachings that are not even Biblical. Like 1914 and the 2 class system. These aren't really Bible teachings, 1914 is a real apostate teaching, but you have to believe it to be a JW. So don't give me the bit about "just following the Bible" That's a bunch of baloney.
1874, 1914, 1925, 1975. "Faithful and discreet Slave class" "Other sheep" This Generation...oh wait a minute..not that generation, this one....no, not that one, this one. Real false teachings.
@earnestlyseeking So you leave true worship of the One True God and embrace the false dogmas of Christendom because imperfect men have made mistakes about the time of the end.....Doesn't make much sense to me.
@JAKEV25 Some of the so called "false dogmas' of Christendom have Biblical support, whereas 1914 has no Biblical support. It comes down to this: Do I put my faith in what God's word says, or what men say.
@earnestlyseeking ES......we are not having this conversation. You are worse off than those in Christendom because you know the truth....you just deny it.
@JAKEV25 says "you know the truth....you just deny it.'
How many times and how many ways do I have to say it. 1914 is not true, 1925 was not true, 1874 was not true. Yes I deny these teachings. BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT TRUE!!!!
Jesus saves, not an organization. Now this is true, and it will be true tomorrow and from now on, because it is a real truth.
They only problem about them being imperfect men is the very dangerous claim they have made. The claim of being cleansed and GOD'S SPIRIT ANNOITED Organization. 7 times they have changed the view on the "Generations". I guess Jehovah is confused? That really makes no sense. I guess Jehovah also wanted Jesus to have Rutherford to build that nice Mansion out in Beverly Hills..
@1914watcher So the JW should pick up and embrace the churches of Christendom with all their error because imperfect men within the society got something wrong? ...Yeah...right....
The facts are right infront of you if you choose to except them. What I AM saying is never embrace anything that can be proven wrong. You are responsible for your own salvation. Luke 12:4
Who did the apostles follow? You need to reseach the first century christian faith and do some reseach on the nicene creed. The apostles were not counting time or handing out publications to hold their position with Jesus. Jesus was not a unbaptized publisher at the age of 12. Open your eyes.... .
let tell you one thing bud,its like saying that a five year old thta is smarter and haves better discenment than a 40 tear old ,does that not tell you that the kid is more capable than a 40 year old,what they are trying to prove is that once you your mind not your body or apperance ,your is capable of understanding and knows what is doing than why retain him if is his will to baptise. get it or you want to talk to you in baby language so you can understand!
@1914watcher your premise is at fault. we have NEVER uttered a prophecy..not one. But, we have misunderstood prophecy and it's expected fulfillment. But, we have also been right on on most of the dates..but the understanding of them was limited and sometimes in error. Jehovah had MANY prophecies written down..and Paul said they were written as a warning to us whom the end of the system of things has arrived..so, what is worse?..ignoring the prophecies?..or trying to understand them?
@1914watcher jake..1914..end of gentile times..last days begin
have to re research 1925.
1975..mans' 6000th year. SOME speculation on it being tied in with the day of rest. Not nearly the tempest people like to claim. I know..my bro in law was there from 72. Talked to him today about it..he said some talked about it..but it was not a big topic..and the publications said not to put too much expection on anything concering the date. People like to make it much more than it was.
It is also a loving position, and MOST beneficial to one who has been disciplined by Jesus' congregation!! I say it's loving, because it allows the unrepentant sinner to repent, to come back into fellowship with other true Christians.
As the scriptures say, "no discipline seems to be joyous, but grievous, yet afterwards it results in righteous fruitage.' [paraphrase mine].
This subject has been broached so many times and has been spoken to so much, that if they can't read the plain facts in Scripture, then there is nothing else that can be said.
Overlooking the gross sins of others is a specialty in Christendom.
The Bible speaks to their "overlooking' badness. Psalm 1:4-5
They'll have a good time listening to their sexually immoral and homosexual leaders.
It's so much easier to see the disctinction between one who has served the true God, and one who hasn't. Those who don't know Him are still in mental darkness. They haven't a CLUE as to why certain ones are disfellowshiped; even more so they will never be able to comprehend how it IS a loving provision from Jah: It keeps His congregation clean, and it's also done in hopes that the unrepentent sinner will snap to and come to his senses and work to be reinstated!
I have more than a passing understanding of the doctrine. I also agree it is a loving provision, not done out of spite. "For those Jehovah loves, he reproves." Ps 3:12 and Heb.12:6
These folks would like to go back to the Law so they could release their anger on a son or daughter by stoning him. Deut.13:6-11
These are the same ones who want to torture sinners for eternity with fire.
Notice I never quoted the Watchtower literature once.
You have always been told that Judas was not present during the Lords Evening Meal ..Correct? That is the way the talk is written and told to those who attend the Memorial. If you put your trust in men then you would certianly believe this to be true,but if you read the BIBLE @ Luke 22:14-23...Can you please tell me were Judas was during the Lords Evening Meal?... ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES?
It is very easy to see that you did not look up the scriptures. :( Once again Luke 22:14-23 Page 1321 of the New world translation. Then please read John 13:26-29.
In John 13:30 you need to take note of the TIME when Judas leaves.. It was NIGHT that would NOT be EVENING. So when was this time? Look back at look once again.. Luke 22:14 say: At length when "THE HOUR" came, he reclined at the table,and THE APOSTLES with HIM.
@1914watcher Last Night With Jesus. In spite of having turned against Christ, Judas continued to associate with him. He gathered with Jesus and the apostles on Nisan 14, 33 C.E., for the celebration of the Passover. While the Passover meal was in process Jesus ministered to the apostles, humbly washing their feet. Hypocritical Judas allowed Jesus to
do that to him. But Jesus said, “Not all of you are clean.” (Joh 13:2-5, 11) He also stated that one of the apostles there at the table would...
...betray him. Perhaps so as not to appear guilty, Judas asked if he was the one. As a further identification, Jesus gave Judas a morsel and told him to do quickly what he was doing.—Mt 26:21-25; Mr 14:18-21; Lu 22:21-23; Joh 13:21-30.
Immediately Judas left the group. A comparison of Matthew 26:20-29 with John 13:21-30 indicates that he departed before Jesus instituted the celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal. Luke’s presentation of this incident evidently is not in strict chronological...
...order, for Judas had definitely left by the time Christ commended the group for having stuck with him; that would not fit Judas, nor would he have been taken into the “covenant . . . for a kingdom.”—Lu 22:19-30.
Yes, Judas left AFTER the Lords Evening Meal,but the other Apostles were still THERE and Jesus thanked them. Judas was still there when Jesus announces the "New Covenant" in Luke 22:20? Jesus MADE sure to SAY in verse 21 where Judas was.
@1914watcher No, Judas left after the PASSOVER meal, but was gone before Jesus instituted the Memorial, as Judas had been dismissed/disfellowshiped by the Lord.
When someone outside (WT organisation) makes mistake, he is "Worldly". When someone inside makes mistake, he is "Imperfect".
9906197439 3 months ago
A Dangerous cult founded by a conman Russell and futer controlled by a [controlling] conman Rutherford and run by 12 powerful conmen. They have brought more misery and pain on individuals and families. They should be xposed for what they are
malkaraatgw1 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Sovern009:Hahahaha ha aha 2000 meetings a week!you must think your so clever!!
You mean the 2 meetings a week?and not your
One meeting on sunday?where you don't even pay attention?and
There's no moral dress code???!!!hahaha
And when you feel like it you'll go to sunday confessions
And say all the bad disgusting things you did and do them again afterwards!!
praisejah92 6 months ago
@21crosscheck21
Lu12:49 “I came 2 start a fire on the earth, & what more is there 4 me 2 wish if it has already been lighted?...51 Do U imagine I came 2 give peace on the earth? No, indeed,..., but rather division. 52 For from now on there will b 5 in 1 house divided, 3 against 2 & 2 against 3. 53 They will b divided, father against son & son against father, mother against
***
Do u believe that the above would have resulted in shunning?
Do u keep close ties w/those who disregard ur beliefs?
MALACHAI39 7 months ago 4
@MALACHAI39 he never answers the people that prove him to be a fool. He is afraid of the further ramifications and complications of additional interaction with them/us. Each and every verse they post contradicts a previous post that they made. The father , Son and Holy spirit? The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of god, the Son is the Son of God, the Father is the Father of God...WAIT? what I meant was...see, that just wont work, its a LIE, so lets NOT speak about it. RELATIONSHIP??with who?
HolyRollerSpirit1 6 months ago 8
@HolyRollerSpirit1: Tell me then please just what are your beliefs about salvation, paradise and so on...
abbyguy 4 months ago
@abbyguy Sry, just now saw this post to me. Salvation seems to be all anybody worries about. ME ME ME, how am I saved, What must I do, My Reward, Jesus saved Me, and so on.
In a nutshell, Your relationship with God(The Father) is the same as your relationship with your father or with your son.(if it is as it should be). Is it what you want from your father or what you want FOR your father? Is it what you want from your son or what you want FOR your son?
HolyRollerSpirit1 4 months ago
@HolyRollerSpirit1: That makes no sense at all. Of course I'm worried about salvation, what else is there? If I am not saved how can I tell others who then can be saved?? You say it like it's a bad thing?!
That's what the whole bible is about...redemption through Jesus Christ and how we can get it. The gospels tell us how to recieve it and then to pass on the knowledge through personal example and spreading it verbally. Jesus is the ONLY way, he said "I am the way the truth and the life..."
abbyguy 4 months ago
@MALACHAI39: You seem to think this scripture gives you the right to shun, NOT! It simply tells us that there will be division, disagreements, opposition and so on but the bible NER EVER says not to love our enemies. In fact Jesus told us to LOVE our enemies. Enemies meaning all those in opposition to our beliefs, personally or theologically.
Are we more likely to help people find God by rejecting them or by walking beside them and saying I love you, no matter what you do. As Jesus did.
abbyguy 4 months ago
itsacult
JWAlphamaleORG 11 months ago
The JWs are in a deep Hypnotic trance; It will take an experienced Hypnotis to wake them up. They dont here you, their under the control of those 20000 meeting a week dude!
sovern009 1 year ago
Jesus said in John 5:39-40, NIV
You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
JWS refuse the Scriptures that testify about Jesus. & JWS refuse to come to Jesus to have life. So sad!
luv4u351 1 year ago
great explanation of Biblical truth Crosscheck!!! you are spot on!! Jesus IS for EVERYONE who puts their trust in Him.
John 14:1
[ Jesus Comforts His Disciples ] "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God ; trust also in me.
Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
laffy4christ 1 year ago
@TheMrlovett
WHAT that he said makes him wrong, Watchtower robot!
tommotian 1 year ago
@TheMrlovett
"....daaaah". How educating. Did you cut & past that from a Watchtower magazine?
tommotian 1 year ago
@TheMrlovett
According to the WTS, yes. Although, I believe that your society used to teach that my 'holier than thou pope' was none other than Michael the Archangel. Does that make him Jesus? I will have to disagree!
In my earlier response, I meant, "register with the UN".
fezik82 1 year ago
@fezik82 Fez..where did you read that we used to believe that michael was the pope?
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun
I only have the 1918 "Finished Mystery" & did not see it, I assume that what I should be looking for is the 1917? It is said to state that Michael the Archangel is the pope of Rome on p. 188.
"Michael and his angels"--the papacy and its supporters--fought against the dragon--pagan rulers, etc.,-- and the great dragon was cast out of heaven. Zion's Watch Tower 1879 December p.6 (Re : Rev 12:7)
Zion's Watch Tower 1879 November p.4 also states that Michael the Archangel worships Jesus.
fezik82 1 year ago
@fezik82 fez..early on, we were coming out of the dark as to who Christ is, fulfillment of prophecy, etc..so, yes, there ARE mistakes made. And those mistakes have since been corrected! We continually study the bible in order to make sure of the more important things.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun
I completely understand mistakes... I really do. The uneasiness for me is that these mistakes were taught as complete truth... & people believed it. I am pointing out this quote for one reason only, although it is only one example :
"Now we appear like men, and all die naturally like men, but in the resurrection we will rise in our true character as Gods." ~12/1881 WT p301
You & I both know that God is a jealous God, & this is a blasphemous teaching. CONT...
fezik82 1 year ago
CONT'D..
Could such a teaching jeopardize ones salvation? I only assume. I have not seen corrections made for many of the most drastic mistakes, in fact we are told :
"There is no one in present truth today who can honestly say that he received a knowledge of the divine plan from any source other than by the ministry of Brother Russell, either directly or indirectly" ~5/1/1922 WT p. 132
Could what is taught as truth that is essential for salvation today later be found to be a mistake?
fezik82 1 year ago
@fezik82 you will have to expound on what you mean by the divine plan..
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun
I apologize, I am leaving for the day and will have to respond to your question regarding what I believe the early society referenced as the "divine plan" tonight or tomorrow. Have a great day =)!
fezik82 1 year ago
Actually, I can sum the "Divine Plan" up by offering a suggestion. If you wouldn't mind looking for and downloading, "The Divine Plan of the Ages and the Great Pyramid" by Charles Russell (copyright is expired, you can find this for free, I believe it can be found in "archive(dot)org"), you will see all that the plan entails... prior to and after The Lord's return. I believe that "divine plan" is not meant to be summed up into a few 500 character posts!
fezik82 1 year ago
@fezik82 TYPICAL ..!
sovern009 1 year ago
@sovern009
What's typical?
fezik82 1 year ago
@fezik8 The quote you are looking at is actually true! He is speaking of those of the annointed (the 144,000)..when they are resurrected to heaven, they will have the same kind of body God has..the bible says God is a spirit..the angels are spirits..Jesus was raised a mighty spirit..and the angels are called gods..they are mighty ones..and so, those of the annointed who are now in heaven have spirit bodies..in the same form as God.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun
I did not realize that this was still being taught. Please pardon my ignorance, but am I understanding correctly? Is this to say that the 144,000 will rise to become "God"? Or are there to be many "Gods"? Not to bombard you with questions, but if I understood correctly... does this mean that once the body of Christ is complete, Christ will be "God"?
fezik82 1 year ago
@TheMrlovett It was an indirect quote. Notice the quotation marks. Since you don't seem to get it, let me ask you this, do you agree with brofun's answer as to why the WTS is associated with the UN?
thebaroneswife 1 year ago
@thebaroneswife WAS..not is.
brofun 1 year ago
@TheMrlovett Well "daaah", shouldn't your comment be aimed at brofun, since he's the one who said, and I quote, "It was simply a way of gaining access to their library and information on their activities that would allow us to see what the beast was doing and we reported many of their actions..good and bad."?
I thought the WTS taught that God isn't omnipresent. Maybe He needs a helping hand!
thebaroneswife 1 year ago
@TheMrlovett, so... why did the WTS register with the NGO?
fezik82 1 year ago
@fezik82 Simply to use their extensive library and to recieve reports on their activities. That is all..there was no intent to compromise..and as stated many times, the verbage of the application proved no compromising by applying..but over a period of years, that changed and excaped our attention..once it was brougbht to our attention, we removed ourselves from the list of ngo/ dpi..
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun
I appreciate the response. I was hoping for TheMrlovett's response, as he stated with such certainty that this was not true.
fezik82 1 year ago
@fezik82 Yeah..not sure why he said that..we became an ngo/dpi in order to have reports and access to the library..neither of which constitute a compromise of faith.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun
I did not mean to put you on the spot, I apologize.
fezik82 1 year ago
@fezik82 I don't feel put on the spot at all. JWs are as imperfect as any other human on earth..we all make mistakes..we all misunderstand, misstate, etc etc..I try to be as understanding of those things as I want other to be understanding when I misspeak!
brofun 1 year ago
@BROFUN...SHOULDN'T THE WTS PULL OUT THE OUIJA BOARD AND CONTACT THE DEAD "ANNOINTED" IN ORDER TO GET DIBS ON THE BEAST?
01keliree 1 year ago
snap! this is what I'll tell the next Witness who tries to preach to me. "let me just show you a scripture with you." Love it!
HappyGoat75 1 year ago
@Catch22here Yes, it was voluntary..and it was not a compromise in any way. The UN is special only in that it is going to be the eighth king..the one whom all the kings of the earth will give their authority. There is no compromise involved here. But, if you do not want to believe that..you are welcome to your opinion!
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here I am associated with the united states government by having a soscial security card, paying taxes, etc..but, that is not the kind of association that corithians is speaking about. Paul was associated with the Roman government for he was a roman citizen..there was no compromise in being one..just as there was no compromise in applying to be a ngo/dpi under the verbage of the aggreement. I hope this clears it up for you.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here I think you are misunderstanding, or misapplying the word association. By being a dpi/ngo, it doesn't mean we associated with the UN..1cor 15:33 is speaking of association in people we 'hang out' with. If a person associates with say, a drunkard..he might be tempted to become drunk..or if you associate with an immoral person, you could be tempted to become drunk. And, we do tend to judge others by the company they keep..so, one's reputation can also be affected.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here If you read the site, that is as specific as it gets. Make up your own mind..you have that right.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Go back to the site I sent..read the whole thing..look at the documents..then make up your own mind. It's a choice of yours to either belive we are guilty of compromise or not. And, I did not say the watchtower was not associated. They became associated as a ngo/dpi. In the verbage of 1991, there is nothing there that would indicate a compromise of our faith, or our stand on being neutral. You may choose to believe as you wish.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here By signing the document in the early nineties, it did not mean we were associated with the UN. It was simply a way of gaining access to their library and information on their activities that would allow us to see what the beast was doing and we reported many of their actions..good and bad. Just like signing papers stateing citizenship offers many benefits, and in most cases does not include a compromise. You may choose to believe as you wish. You have the evidence. your choice
brofun 1 year ago 5
@brofun It is an absolute fabrication that one needed to be an NGO to enter and use the library. The Watchtower could have easily "kept an eye" on the beast without becoming an NGO.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago 9
@21crosscheck21 It is NOT a fabrication at all. Did you even read the site I sent you? we became ngo/dpi..dept of public information. To gain access, we applied in 1991..I was wrong about one thing..there was no need to reapply..only to renew the people whom we would send who would have access. Without those cards, we could not gain access. Why do you feel the need to misrepresent? The photostats of those application forms are there for you to see and read. believe the truth? or the lie?
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here I understand..the best you can do is take our word for it..or accuse us of dishonesty. And there are always those who will assign dishonorable motives to others. Jesus said 'they will lyingly say every sort of wicked thing about you'..so, believing those sites and persons who portray us in a terrible light would be listening to propaganda. We have not, nor ever will compromise..at least to the best of our ability..we are not perfect.
brofun 1 year ago
Moses,David,Abraham, could not fulfil what Jesus fulfilled what Jesus fulfilled was not fulfilled by MOhd(SAW?) what Mohd(SAW?) couldnt fulfill was fulfilled by the sufis what could not be fulfilled by the Bahais God will fulfil when?
mishrik 1 year ago
@Catch22here again..no double standard..the shunning is ONLY for those who have rebelled against Jehovah after having made a vow and dedication to god. It does not mean we shun people of the world (those who do not knw Jeohvah)..again, you may believe as you like. It was an innocent move to become a dpi..there was no compromise..but, as time went on and the requiremnts changed, we didnt' catch it. We are not perfect people..but, as I see it..it was an innocent mistake..there was no evil.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Again, a disfellowshipped person is one who has dedicated their life to God..by choosing to either become apostate, or willfully practicing what jehovah hates, the bring upon themselves, and their loved ones, the process of disfellowshipping and shunning. Yes, it was necessary to use the library..it wasn't open to anyone. Did you read the site I sent you? You can say it 'sounds contrived'..but, it's not. You just don't want to accept that is was innocent.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Catch..view it as you like. There was no compromise of faith. All the nations stand in opposition to Jehovah..they will ALL take their stand against God's son at armageddon..but, we use the benefits of our respective nations as we see fit, and as long as we do not compromise our faith. There is nothing here to convict us of compromise..we simply used a way of accessing the library and reports of UN activities around the world..when the requirements were changed, we quit.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here But, after it was brought to our attnetion that the verbage had changed and DID represent a compromise, we quickly removed ourselves. when it comes to disfellowshipped ones, these are people who, after having made a vow to serve God by water baptism, chose to willfully practice sin and refused to repent. Paul gives us the counsel on how to deal with that. Does it cause pain?.yes, but it is the sinner that brings this on himself..he/she knows what Jehovah requires
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Sorry, you are discussing two different situations. We correspond with the governments all the time. Corresponding with them is no violation of our stand. It is not associating. It is dealing with them to conduct business. I correspond with the governemnt when I pay my taxes, when I ask for information, etc. I have a social security card. You seem intent on not recognizing that in the begining, the verbage of the application did not represent any compromise..
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here But, there are many aspects of the world in general that we are part of..we eat the food that is produced by the world's farmers..we work in the many feilds of business that is manufactured by the business men of the world..we drive on the roads..we borrow money from the banks that are regualted by the nations, etc etc etc. Does this mean that we have become part of the world that is alienated?..no, It simply means we are IN the world, but no part of the world.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here We are IN the world..but no part of it. The part we are no part of is any activitiy that would be viewed as a compromise. The worlds lowering moral standards are not Gods..so, we strive to keep the high standards. The nations political and war activities are in opposition to God, so we strive to remain neutral. The UN will be the eighth king spoken in revelation..and the time will come when it will require all people of the earth to 'wortship' it in some form..we will refuse.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here that would cause us to feel we had compromised. But, over time, the verbage changed and we did not catch it until someone pointed it out to us..we thanked that person publically and removed ourselves from that list. There was no bad association, nor hypocrisy.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here I've discussed this eariler..we do not associate with that governmental agency..but, we use whatever benefits our citizenship allows for as long as there is no compromise. Take for instance, the YMCA. I would like to join..but, in their paper work that I would have to sign, it states that I believe as they do and associate myself with there religious organization..even tho there would be no religious actiivity. Same with the dpi application..originally, there was no verbage..
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here CAtch..you don't see the connection because you don't read the bible, or llive by it. Paul very very clearly says 'do not associatie with anyone called a brother (this is someone who has dedicated their life to God and made a vow to live by his standards) who is a fornicator, idolator, drunkard, etc etc..not even greeting or eating with such a man'. He is a criminal in the eyes of God..THAT is the connection. The congregation is protected by removing the willful sinner.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here attention, we immediatly withdrew it. Don't make this into something it is not. I use my citezenship to go to local librairies...that does not mean that I am in support of the local governments. It simply means that I use my benefits as a citizen as long as doing so does not constitute a compromise of faith..like pledging my aligance to the flag. But while we are on the subject..let me ask you this..Do you support war? If drafted..would you go and kill people?
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here All the nations of the earth are considerd part of the wild beast..we are all 'associated by our citizenship' in that sense..that doesn't mean we are part of the world..and using the benefits of our citizenship as long as we do not compromise our faith is not a sin. Under the verbage of becoming a dpi, there was no sin. but, over a few years, as that site pointed out, the verbage changed..and the brother/s who was doing the signing did not catch it..but when brought to our att.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Fear? POssibly..the shepherds fear that a lawless one who is allowed to associate with the other sheep would cause them to stray also..this goes along with 1 cor 15:33 'do not be misled, bad association spoils useful habits'. Paul set the example when he had the young man who was having sex with his step mother thrwon out of the congregation..but, later, the man repented, and paul counseled them to accept him back with love.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here LOL..I don't really see the connection. You can dodge a red hot poker..and you can implore the police to do something about a lawless household in your neighbor hood..and probably would. The elders are charged with protecting the flock..if a person who is a member of that flock who has vowed to follow Jehovah's laws chooses to practice sin willfully, the bible is VERY CLEAR on how to handle that.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Jesus was there to preach and teach these ones..he ate with them and spoke with them to teach them the truths..but, when a person has learned the truth, he is under a greater responsibility..for he has dedicated his life to God. Breaking that vow willfully requiires discipline. And the bible lines this out. Paul is not saying to shun people in general ..for we are to preach and teach..but he said "anyone called a brother'..don't greet, eat, ec with him.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here All governments are symbolised by wild beasts. We believe the beast that came out of the earth with two horns of a lamb and a head of a dragon is the anglo american world power. As governments on earth, christians are allowed to use their services which our taxes pay for..it is not a compromise. The roman government was symbolised by a large bear with long claws and teeth..and Paul used his citizenship to his advantage. the SS admin is simply an administration of gov.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here by removing the man..several things are accomplished..the congregation is put on alert that this one is no longer good association and they are not allowed to associate with hm until he repents and is accepted back. It keeps the congregation clean. It disciplines the willful sinner. And it shows a love for rightousness on the part of the congregation. Those who practice those willful sins without reprenting will NOT inherit God's kingdom.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here You would not want someone who was a known and practiciing criminal to move into the house next door to you..right? No, you would want the policie to take action..to arrest such a man to protect you and your family. The elders in the congregation are under much the same obligation..altho they are no police, they are to 'know positively the appearance of your flock'. This means they keep an eye on things..and when one is willfully pracicing sin, unrepentent..they are removed.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here that is why paul said "quit associating with anyone CALLED A BROTHER, who is a fornicator, idolator, greedy person, etc etc. The brother who chooses to practice gross sin is sinning with knowledge about God..and after he has made a vow, thru baptism, to uphold Jehovah's laws..so, he is certainly under much greater responsibility. And the elders are instructed by Paul to remove such a man if he is unrepentent. This isn't much different than a government incarcerating criminals.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here I addressed the UN above. as for the disfellowshipping..the bible very clearly shows that there IS a double standard. One for those who have dedicated their lives to Jehovah and promised to do his will and live by his standards..and those who are outside the congregation. Those outside do not know Jehovah or his laws..so, we talk with them about the bible..to help them..to teach them if they are willing..but, those in the congregation come under greater responsibility..
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here That is your opinon..the UN is a governmental agency..and Paul speaks of working to legally establish teh good news. We all live under government agencys..and the bible does not prohibit us to use them for protection and/or the services they provide..however, if those governmental agencies ask us to break integrity to God..then we refuse..like when the government asks us to become soldiers, or support war in any way..we refuse. Jesus said to pay our taxes..so, we pay our taxes
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Hey catch..if you want the whole picture, I'll send you a link..can't seem to post it here..must be against the rules..I'll message it to you,.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Yes, I am..if you would like the website that has the pic of the documents, I may have it..you can see that this is really a tempest in a pot of tea..in fact, it was one of our detractors who brought it to our attention..and that person was thanked for his letting us know..(if I remember right)..will have to recheck my resources!
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Just so we are on the same page..what scripture are you referring to where disrupter is used..I want to be accurate and make sure I understand your question right.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here and, once we became aware that the wording had changed to one that said would would support the UN in it's actiivites and goals, we removed ourselves from the NGO status. There was no intention of deciept or hypocrisy. We make use of the laws and provisions of our governments..all of which stand in opposition to God's kingdom..and we have that right. As long as we do not compromise our stand of neutraility..there is no sin in using the provisions.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here The document was simply an asking of permission to use their library and recieve the info on teh activities of the UN. We also have the right to ask for information from the united states..we have social security numbers..again, these are not compromises of our faith. Now, if the UN asks us to endorse them or claim aligiance to them..we would not have applied for the NGO status. because of the change over time in teh documents, changes that went unnoticed, we became aware
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Again, I know what a disrupter is..but, I am not sure what you are asking..are you asking what I would do if an apostate got in my face down town with a placard or pamphlets or something? Are you asking if I would shun them?
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here I have also researched this also..the documents that we signed to be ngo was changed over the years..the first few years, we signed on because there was nothing in the documents that would cause us to compromise..but later, they were subtly changed..and someone pointed it out to us..we then removed ourselves from being on that list. There was never a willful sinning going on..we wanted access to the vast library and to be notified of UN activiities..and we were...
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here ok..on your videos. I'll begin to post what is inaccurate..I'll find one, listen to it..and write down the inaccuracies and then post. Look forward to discussing it.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here The bible clearly warns us at 1cor 15:33..do not be misled, bad associations spoill useful habits'. Paul's counsel was clear, 'remove the wicked man from among you'. These are princples that are given to protect the congregation from those who would cause harm to others spiritually, or tempt them to get invovled in wrongdoing also. As for apostates, Paul clearly warned that they are like rocks seeking to shipwreck the faith of others. Jesus siad the devil wants to milead us.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Not sure what you mean by a disruptor..so I'll wait for clarification on that point. and what do you mean 'where ever you encounter them?
As for Christ eatings with the sinners..he came to help people..but, once these ones accept the help, come to an accurate knowledge of the bibl and dedicate their lives to god, they are expected to keep the laws and standards that are outlined..if they choose to practice things Jehovah condemns unrepentently, they are disfellowshipped.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here You post alot of videos about JWs..and i don't find them accurate in their presentation. So, yes, I would like to discuss these things in depth. I posted why we disfellowship..and you didn't seem to think it was loving. but, it IS loving..it protects the congregation from those who willfully practice sin..and it can shock a sinner into repenting if he has refused...or, in some cases, it frees the sinner to do as he wishes..wihtout pressure from those in the flock or family.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here not worried at all. But, you did want to discuss the disfellowshipping...or, are we done?
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here LOL..I knew I should not have explained!
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here You aren't understanding..it's the PRACTICE of sin..we all stumble and fall..but, we can get back up..but, if we choose to PRACTICE sin unrepentently, then the elders follow paul's counsel and remove the wicked man from among them. but, if they choose to stop the practice..and they want to come back to Jehovah..they are welcome.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Being a drunkard is one of the sins listed that a person will not inherit the kingdom for if he practices it. the bible outlines those sins that would cause one to lose out if he/she chose to practice it. As for 'brand of sin? We all sin..but there are sins that are willful and bad..and then there are the sins that come from the fallen flesh..but, it is the PRACTICE of sin that can cause one to lose their life. Disfellowshipping is a last resort for one who is unrepentant.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here I meant did I say you should have been able to infer that I had been reinstated. That's all.. If a person chooses to go against the teachings of the bible as we see it..they have the right to leave. No one is held against their will. Are there consequences?..yes. Are those consequences painful?..yes! But, it is discipline from Jehovah..if a person chooses to practrice what is wrong, or turn apostate, they lose the association of the congregation.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Did I say that?..nope...I merely cleared it up. ok..no problem. How do you view the way paul said to deal with the young man who was having sex with his step mother? Was he not cast out..and shunned?
and, how do you view paul's counsel to not eat, speak, greet, anyone called a brother who is a fornicator, adulterer, drunkard, etc.?
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here LOL..I suppose that the past tense escaped you. I've been reinstated now for over fifteen yeas..and my daughter was reinstated about five years ago. So, now that you have that cleared up..would you like to address the original thought?
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here Well, the best thing to do is start with the simple things. it's easy to become frustrated when you look at the whole thing. that is why we conduct bible studies with people using study aids..the bible covers a tremendous amount of information..and it's deep. But, we start simply. In our book 'what does the bible really teach'..we begin with 'who is God..who is Jesus..who is satan. what is the kingdom..etc. So, why don't we start with a simple subject.
brofun 1 year ago
@Catch22here What do you mean "they mean what they say or don't? Can you claify for me? I've been disfellowshipped..and so was my daughter..so I am in a postiion to speak on it quite well. Do I need to answer some questions?..can you ask me some that might shed light upon it for you?
brofun 1 year ago
1cor 5:9-13. Paul is telling faithful ones how to deal with those who LEAVE Jehovah. Paul dealt with one in the corinthian congregation..a young man who was having sex with his step mother..and the congregation was tolerating it..Paul said 'remove the wicked man from among you'. I have been disfellowshipped. It was not pleasant..but, it yeilded very good fruit in me..because I stopped doing what was wrong, and returned to Jehovah.
brofun 1 year ago
The Watchtower refuses to get it because the shunning (Disfellowshipping), is a fear tactic to stop their captives from leaving. Interestingly, at the back of the NWT word index if you look at 'Disfellowshipping' the scriptures it uses are to do with being thrown out of a Synagogue. Cover up or what!?!?
PuNkOfNiCe 1 year ago
@PuNkOfNiCe LOL..it doesn't stop people from leaving. I can leave at any time if I like. I know the consequences if I do. If I choose to become apostate, or choose to practice things that are wicked, those who love Jehovah won't have anything to do with me. It's the consequence of practicing what is wicked in the christian congregation! Under the mosaic law, when Isreal was doing God's will, those things were punishable by death! Disfellowshipping leaves you the chance to come back.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun Hi, friend, I don't understand why you are looking at 'apostate' sites if you are such a 'spiritually strong' brother. The F&DS have forbidden JW's to look at these sites. Does your Co-ordinatir of the body of Elders know? Please tell me what he says. PS. You can't count 'time' with me - I'm 'baptized'! Seriously, let me know. ;=)
PuNkOfNiCe 1 year ago
@PuNkOfNiCe punk..youtube is not an apostate site..but, of course, the apostates do like to try ot mislead people..and I come to places in order to help those who might hear the words of people who hate JWs..and might be intersted..and I am conducting several private conversations as a result of these discussions..
brofun 1 year ago
This is far too generic, CC. There are plenty of examples where Jesus rejects the wicked or the disobedient, like the five foolish virgins. So there is a distinction between those who are weak and sinful and those who deliberately reject God and Christ whom Christ condemns. There will be "grapes of wrath", so your discussion is inapplicable in the big picture. Nice vid backgrounds!!
TheExtremeBiblicist 1 year ago
Christ (Messiah), was sent to the Jews..specifically..and he did heal the Phoenician woman's daughter because she believed and persisted although she was not an Israelite and even Jesus, as an Israelite, considered her as a "little dog" because she was from the pagans...so this shows that he was healing the sinful Israelites and associating with them...Matt 15: 21-28. There is much to discover in God's Word.
wanboo02 1 year ago
My freind just like Punk of Nice at the bottom thinks he was captured for 50 years,well let me tell you one thing no body absolutely no body not even JW will fprce you to do what you want o do,because at the end like the bible says each and evry one of us will have to respond to god,when jesus comes to judge us.so all this people that say that they are being mind controlled by JW is absurd,i ve been a JW for 29 years,and evry thing all this people say is just funny the way they think
SKVBF 1 year ago
We didn't make the rules but we follow them 1-Adam and Eve expelled from garden Gn 3:24. 2-Clear out what is bad or evil from your midst Dt 13:5 and 17:7. 3-Keep eye on those causing division and avoid them Rom 16:17. 4-Remove the wicked from among yourselves 1Cor5:13. 5-Withdraw from every brother walking disorderly 2Thes3:6 6-No association with disobedient one's 1Thes 3:14. 7-Reject a man promoting a sect Titus 3:10. 8-Do not greet those leaving teachings of Christ 2Jn8-11 Gods rules not ours
Scripturesinspired 1 year ago
Hey 21crosscheck 21 i would like to have a conversation with you, you can call me at 956 6818588. we got a lon chat ahead of us. regarding jw dont get it.
SKVBF 1 year ago
@SKVBF Sure, I'l call you tonight.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@SKVBF Ok ... tried calling you and you didn't answer.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@21crosscheck21 you never called me why are you lying!
SKVBF 1 year ago
now you gwt it we don need to relate with this people till they come back and repent.
SKVBF 1 year ago
isaias 32:6 2 Peter:2:1 job:13:16 Heb.6:4-6 read especially this one.
SKVBF 1 year ago
no you dont get it! the reason they doit is only one.like an apple thats contaminated or rotten if you leave it with rest of the apples,what will happen the rest will slowly rotten by that one influence if we want to stay spiritually intact of course we are going to stay away for one reason. 1 timothy 4:1. 2 thessalonians 2:3 acts:20:30 2 peter 2:1,3. luke:6:46 Jude 8,11 important . numbers:16:1-3,11,19-21. 2 timothy:2:16-18. 2 jhon: 9,10. romans:16:17,18. proverbs:11:9.
SKVBF 1 year ago
Watchtower = cult mind control. I should know I was under their hypnosis 50 years! Thanks to reading the Bible without the watchtower I am now born again! Saved! To a JW I am a demonized apostate. Not to Jesus!!
PuNkOfNiCe 1 year ago
@PuNkOfNiCe You are absolutely right!! You are now a precious child of God!
John 1:12 - "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God."
It doens't say anything about The Watchtower Organization here does it? Nope. Just referers to Jesus.....He is the way...Watchtower is NOT the way.
laffy4christ 1 year ago
@PuNkOfNiCe matt 7:21-23
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun Matt 7:21-23 - can you explain why you put this random scripture here?
PuNkOfNiCe 1 year ago
@PuNkOfNiCe yes..because you are claiming that you are doing all sorts of good things in jesus name..but he clearly shows that there would be those who claimed it..but would be told Jesus never knew you..and that you were working lawlessness. By believing things taht are untrue about God and Christ..by refusing to do his will, by taking part in the affairs of the wordly nations that are in opposition to Christ's kingdom..etc..this is a warning to all to carefully examine where they stand.
brofun 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21 No, nice shirt.
rnemger 1 year ago
@jakev25 I have a question for you. Do you think the watchtower society has the right to judge all other religions by saying that only jws have a hope of surviving Armageddon? And, that god speaks through Only their organization?
This shows me that they are taking gods place and judging everyone on the planet. This also shows that you could love god believe in the ransom sacrifice, be a great person and still die because you aren't a jw.
Where are the scriptures to
Support these beliefs?
oskaipwn 1 year ago
The example of jesus when he criticized the religion of the time,he critisized them because he new that the practices and the laws were altered by them.so no there is no wrong in talking the truth of religion that practices bible the wrong way.
SKVBF 1 year ago
@oskaipwn Do you believe in truth? Do you believe that satan has oversowed the feild with weeds? do you understand 2nd thess 2? Do you believe that satan can turn himself into an angel of light, and his minsters do the same?..do you think Jesus has a divided and conflicted message on the kingdom? Do you believe that God is a trinity?..or that God is almighty, and his son is his son..? You see, these are issues that DO make a difference. Who is the father of the lie?..and what are the lies
brofun 1 year ago
first prove christianity true before debunking ono of the many idiotic denominations of this beyond stupid faith
WeSmokeTheGanja 1 year ago
@WeSmokeTheGanja Whether something is true or not does not depend upon my ability to prove it. Things are true because they are true.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago 2
Ok first of all, Jehovah Witnesses avoid the people that leave because they could influence others to do bad stuff. Unlike us humans, Jesus was perfect...so maybe thats why Jesus was able to talk to them. And actually when you say they "don't take the time to say 'hello' to them" you are incorrect...when the person does something wrong, he or she gets talked to by the Elders...they offer their help and are willing to do anything to make them feel better.
ReinitaRockera 1 year ago
21 Are You so blind? Hebrews 5:11
11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”
JAKEV25 1 year ago
well said :-)
carehappens 1 year ago
i am shunnned by my son and fam. who are studing with jw..i didn't leave god at all very sad and miss them so much
Irm6001 1 year ago
What you have to do Brian, along with your wake of Bible detractors (for that is what they are all against. Jehovah's Witnesses did not invent this doctrine nor were they the first to use it.) is explain how the Scriptures the Bible directs at the church on how to treat unrepentant wrongdoers, should be interpreted.
Can you do that for us?
Or, as everyone else I've seen oppose this Bible teaching, do you only disparage JWs complete dedication in following the Bible, even the hard parts?
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom I take offense at your suggestion that Jehovah's Witnesses are following the Bible in their disfellowshipping policy. Why? Because I was disfellowshipped because I didn't believe JW teachings that are not even Biblical. Like 1914 and the 2 class system. These aren't really Bible teachings, 1914 is a real apostate teaching, but you have to believe it to be a JW. So don't give me the bit about "just following the Bible" That's a bunch of baloney.
earnestlyseeking 1 year ago
@earnestlyseeking And therefore you ran into the arms of Born Again Christians knowing their false teachings.....So much for taking a stand.
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25 "False teachings" lol
1874, 1914, 1925, 1975. "Faithful and discreet Slave class" "Other sheep" This Generation...oh wait a minute..not that generation, this one....no, not that one, this one. Real false teachings.
earnestlyseeking 1 year ago
@earnestlyseeking So you leave true worship of the One True God and embrace the false dogmas of Christendom because imperfect men have made mistakes about the time of the end.....Doesn't make much sense to me.
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25 Some of the so called "false dogmas' of Christendom have Biblical support, whereas 1914 has no Biblical support. It comes down to this: Do I put my faith in what God's word says, or what men say.
earnestlyseeking 1 year ago
@earnestlyseeking ES......we are not having this conversation. You are worse off than those in Christendom because you know the truth....you just deny it.
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25 says "you know the truth....you just deny it.'
How many times and how many ways do I have to say it. 1914 is not true, 1925 was not true, 1874 was not true. Yes I deny these teachings. BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT TRUE!!!!
Jesus saves, not an organization. Now this is true, and it will be true tomorrow and from now on, because it is a real truth.
earnestlyseeking 1 year ago 9
@JAKEV25
They only problem about them being imperfect men is the very dangerous claim they have made. The claim of being cleansed and GOD'S SPIRIT ANNOITED Organization. 7 times they have changed the view on the "Generations". I guess Jehovah is confused? That really makes no sense. I guess Jehovah also wanted Jesus to have Rutherford to build that nice Mansion out in Beverly Hills..
1914watcher 1 year ago
@1914watcher So the JW should pick up and embrace the churches of Christendom with all their error because imperfect men within the society got something wrong? ...Yeah...right....
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25
All of the prophets from the bible were all imperfect men,but what they said actually came true.
Russell 1914 ---False
Rutherford 1925 --- False
Knorr 1975 ---- False
How many times does this need to happen before people realize .. Matt 24-23,24
is in fact the governing body? Jer 10:23
The facts are right infront of you if you choose to except them. What I AM saying is never embrace anything that can be proven wrong. You are responsible for your own salvation. Luke 12:4
1914watcher 1 year ago
@1914watcher P L E A S E.......Need we really go into the false prophecies of Christendom?......because we have a ton of dirty laundry there.
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25
The problem is the Watchtower has made their false prophecies (dates) using Jehovah's name. .. Which teaching is worse?
1914watcher 1 year ago
@1914watcher I would definately choose the WBTS with your "understanding of it's errors" than worship a false triune god any day.
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25
Who did the apostles follow? You need to reseach the first century christian faith and do some reseach on the nicene creed. The apostles were not counting time or handing out publications to hold their position with Jesus. Jesus was not a unbaptized publisher at the age of 12. Open your eyes.... .
1914watcher 1 year ago
let tell you one thing bud,its like saying that a five year old thta is smarter and haves better discenment than a 40 tear old ,does that not tell you that the kid is more capable than a 40 year old,what they are trying to prove is that once you your mind not your body or apperance ,your is capable of understanding and knows what is doing than why retain him if is his will to baptise. get it or you want to talk to you in baby language so you can understand!
SKVBF 1 year ago
@SKVBF "baby talk"?
my 7year old son can spell better than you!
limydave 1 year ago
@JAKEV25
MY understanding?
Matthew 24:23-25
1914watcher 1 year ago
@1914watcher your premise is at fault. we have NEVER uttered a prophecy..not one. But, we have misunderstood prophecy and it's expected fulfillment. But, we have also been right on on most of the dates..but the understanding of them was limited and sometimes in error. Jehovah had MANY prophecies written down..and Paul said they were written as a warning to us whom the end of the system of things has arrived..so, what is worse?..ignoring the prophecies?..or trying to understand them?
brofun 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JAKEV25
Who is we?
@1914watcher P L E A S E.......Need we really go into the false prophecies of Christendom?......because we have a ton of dirty laundry there
1914watcher 1 year ago
@1914watcher jake..1914..end of gentile times..last days begin
have to re research 1925.
1975..mans' 6000th year. SOME speculation on it being tied in with the day of rest. Not nearly the tempest people like to claim. I know..my bro in law was there from 72. Talked to him today about it..he said some talked about it..but it was not a big topic..and the publications said not to put too much expection on anything concering the date. People like to make it much more than it was.
brofun 1 year ago
Comment removed
nibornagrom 1 year ago
It's ALMOST funny, how christendom just does NOT get it!!
Jesus shunned one who was an intimate acquaintance of his: Judas of Iscariot!
Judas was shunned, or disfellowhiped by the Master himself!!
Don't tell us it is not unscriptural, when it is MOST scriptural, to break off fellowship with ONLY an unrepentant one!
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
It is also a loving position, and MOST beneficial to one who has been disciplined by Jesus' congregation!! I say it's loving, because it allows the unrepentant sinner to repent, to come back into fellowship with other true Christians.
As the scriptures say, "no discipline seems to be joyous, but grievous, yet afterwards it results in righteous fruitage.' [paraphrase mine].
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
@TheMulder1981
This subject has been broached so many times and has been spoken to so much, that if they can't read the plain facts in Scripture, then there is nothing else that can be said.
Overlooking the gross sins of others is a specialty in Christendom.
The Bible speaks to their "overlooking' badness. Psalm 1:4-5
They'll have a good time listening to their sexually immoral and homosexual leaders.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom True, Robin.
It's so much easier to see the disctinction between one who has served the true God, and one who hasn't. Those who don't know Him are still in mental darkness. They haven't a CLUE as to why certain ones are disfellowshiped; even more so they will never be able to comprehend how it IS a loving provision from Jah: It keeps His congregation clean, and it's also done in hopes that the unrepentent sinner will snap to and come to his senses and work to be reinstated!
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
@TheMulder1981
I have more than a passing understanding of the doctrine. I also agree it is a loving provision, not done out of spite. "For those Jehovah loves, he reproves." Ps 3:12 and Heb.12:6
These folks would like to go back to the Law so they could release their anger on a son or daughter by stoning him. Deut.13:6-11
These are the same ones who want to torture sinners for eternity with fire.
Notice I never quoted the Watchtower literature once.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom True.
Very well done.
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
@TheMulder1981
You have always been told that Judas was not present during the Lords Evening Meal ..Correct? That is the way the talk is written and told to those who attend the Memorial. If you put your trust in men then you would certianly believe this to be true,but if you read the BIBLE @ Luke 22:14-23...Can you please tell me were Judas was during the Lords Evening Meal?... ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES?
1914watcher 1 year ago
@1914watcher He was there at the Passover meal, but then shortly dismissed (spelled DISFELLOWSHIPED) by Jesus before the memorial was begun.
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
Comment removed
1914watcher 1 year ago
@TheMulder1981
It is very easy to see that you did not look up the scriptures. :( Once again Luke 22:14-23 Page 1321 of the New world translation. Then please read John 13:26-29.
1914watcher 1 year ago
@1914watcher
In John 13:30 you need to take note of the TIME when Judas leaves.. It was NIGHT that would NOT be EVENING. So when was this time? Look back at look once again.. Luke 22:14 say: At length when "THE HOUR" came, he reclined at the table,and THE APOSTLES with HIM.
1914watcher 1 year ago
@1914watcher Last Night With Jesus. In spite of having turned against Christ, Judas continued to associate with him. He gathered with Jesus and the apostles on Nisan 14, 33 C.E., for the celebration of the Passover. While the Passover meal was in process Jesus ministered to the apostles, humbly washing their feet. Hypocritical Judas allowed Jesus to
do that to him. But Jesus said, “Not all of you are clean.” (Joh 13:2-5, 11) He also stated that one of the apostles there at the table would...
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
...betray him. Perhaps so as not to appear guilty, Judas asked if he was the one. As a further identification, Jesus gave Judas a morsel and told him to do quickly what he was doing.—Mt 26:21-25; Mr 14:18-21; Lu 22:21-23; Joh 13:21-30.
Immediately Judas left the group. A comparison of Matthew 26:20-29 with John 13:21-30 indicates that he departed before Jesus instituted the celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal. Luke’s presentation of this incident evidently is not in strict chronological...
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
...order, for Judas had definitely left by the time Christ commended the group for having stuck with him; that would not fit Judas, nor would he have been taken into the “covenant . . . for a kingdom.”—Lu 22:19-30.
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
@TheMulder1981
Yes, Judas left AFTER the Lords Evening Meal,but the other Apostles were still THERE and Jesus thanked them. Judas was still there when Jesus announces the "New Covenant" in Luke 22:20? Jesus MADE sure to SAY in verse 21 where Judas was.
1914watcher 1 year ago
@1914watcher No, Judas left after the PASSOVER meal, but was gone before Jesus instituted the Memorial, as Judas had been dismissed/disfellowshiped by the Lord.
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
@TheMulder1981
Can you show me from the scriptures?
Luke 22:19-21
1914watcher 1 year ago