However, I have to agree with some of the other posters here-- I get the distinct impression that you picked up drum sticks for the first time 5 minutes before this video was shot... It's hard to divulge anything in terms of how the rhythms were originally played from your pitiful interpretation.
How do you manage to show baby dodds playing his famaous press rolls then play something completely different. You are right in some of what you say about baby dodds using marching beats, but you cant actually play them yourself. you need to look at and listen very carefully to videos that include john petters, Colin Bowden, Tony sbabaro, Zutty Singleton, Gene Krupa but mainly Baby Dodds.
Also try learning to play the drums, this might help
I think you have to look past comparisons and appreciate what the professor is doing here by teaching people about the history of this music. Bear in mind most people need an introduction to jazz history and these videos fill an important role. Be kind. :)
Now had a chance to re-evaluate Tough. Sessions with Red Nichols, Dorsey Clambake 7, Bunny Berigan, Rex Stewart, Condon. Tough's press roll is essentially the same as Baby's, what you can hear of it. I've not seen your piece on Tough, so can't comment further. I do not uderstand your comment that he spread it out more. Wettling, Tough & Krupa studied Dodds, their rolls sound similar, i.e. all on beats 2 and 4. Bauduc is another example.
With all due respect, I knew Zutty Singleton. I once asked him to teach me. He ordered me behind the trap kit and said to play a simple march. Then he said when you learn to make that swing you got it. I found out he was right.
congratulations for you effort, but John is correct.
The clip is COMPLETELY misleading! it was falsely dubbed on the wrong beat. If you want to be sure, read the auto biography of Baby were he stresses : "It's a three-quarter roll, 3/4 roll ! I told all of them drummers, Tough, Krupa, and others, (he cites names) but they insist in doing it wrong as a two quarter roll!"
I wasn't going to comment on John's piece, but given what you say I will make a brief comment.
Yes, John is correct BUT the reason I play the press roll shorter is to emphasize the 2/4 feel of New Olreans jazz. John's playing is too smooth and almost sounds like 4/4. That is why I made the comment about Dave Tough.
My whole point is that Dodds played on 2 and 4 and did not spread out the roll over the whole beat. That is how I play it on my clip.
On the clip John has, the roll is spread out over the beat. My point was that the press roll was designed to even out the beats to make 2 and 4 equal to 1.
I did not post chapter two which is about Dave Tough and how he spread it it out more.
Dodds himself demonstrates the exact same way John has done on his video on his audio CD where he demonstrates the press roll, and if you listen closely to any recordings you can hear the press roll spread out over the whole beat.
And TBH there are a number of other inaccuracies in this video and the drumming isn't the best demonstration example.
We agree that Dodds played beat one as a tap, beat two as a tap with one hand and a roll with the other, beat 3 a tap, beat 4 a tap and roll. My first video is therefore correct. I've attached another video where I overlay my own press roll over Baby's. I think you are missing what Baby Dodds was about. I have been a pro drummer for over 25 years - I recorded with Art Hodes and Wild Bill Davison who both recorded with Dodds, so I do feel that I am qualified to comment.
I am either correct as you state in your comment today or incorrect as per your comment of last week. You can't have it both ways.
Zutty does do something different to Baby. He gets a sort of shuffle type roll, which has a definate 4/4 feel. Not all New Orleans jazz is 2/4. Baby plays 4/4 on the Mutt Carey New Yorkers sessions in the 40s for example. I'll comment on Tough later. Can you direct me to any recording where Baby plays press rolls as you describle them - Best John
I disagree with your interpretation of the press roll. As you can see from the baby Dodds clip in my video, he plays the press roll on the beat, not sustained for a whole beat. What you are playing was more common after Dave Tough and the Chicago school influenced dixie style jazz.
The clip of Dodds is dubbed onto a silent film.. The press roll is played on beats 2 and 4 as demonstrated in my video. Check out Baby's talking CD. He demonstrates this on 'Careless Love', and on the Shimmy beat/press roll track. He describes it as a 3/4 roll. Playing on the beat would destroy the music. Krupa, Tough & Wettling got their rolls from Baby. Another good example of Baby's press roll can be found on 'Wolverine Blues' from 1/6/46. He is the most difficult drummer to imitate.
With great respect this video is inaccurate. Whilst Baby Dodds was a founding father of traditional jazz drumming, it is unlikely he invented the style. There were other drummers - Zutty Singleton born 1989, Black Happy Goldston Born 1894, Tony Sbarbaro b 1897 - all important contributors
Yes, in a sense you are correct. No one really knows who invented it. But Dodds tends to get the credit in the jazz history books, possibly because of whom he recorded with and possibly because of the later demonstrations he did.
In my history of jazz course I always mention what we do not know and I always mention Singleton.
But in a short video I could not give examples of everyone so I concentrated on Dodds.
hey!!! you arE OUT OF TIME WITH YOUR HANDS AND YOUR FOOT , PLEASE TEKE OFF THIS VIDEO FROM THE WEB , YOU ARE TERRIBLE DRUMMER!
ELVINGIO 3 months ago
Drummerdoc,
Thanks for the insightful history lesson!
However, I have to agree with some of the other posters here-- I get the distinct impression that you picked up drum sticks for the first time 5 minutes before this video was shot... It's hard to divulge anything in terms of how the rhythms were originally played from your pitiful interpretation.
Nice beard though!
RFRCR 1 year ago
Is this a joke?
prosjo 1 year ago
...this shit is outta sync and blurry and to tough tto watch. Get it in focus and maybe you'll have something.
aammirr 1 year ago
doesnt matter if it's the african or european version. you only play one version. the sloppy one.
LazyBastard69 3 years ago
How do you manage to show baby dodds playing his famaous press rolls then play something completely different. You are right in some of what you say about baby dodds using marching beats, but you cant actually play them yourself. you need to look at and listen very carefully to videos that include john petters, Colin Bowden, Tony sbabaro, Zutty Singleton, Gene Krupa but mainly Baby Dodds.
Also try learning to play the drums, this might help
acbailes681 3 years ago
I think you have to look past comparisons and appreciate what the professor is doing here by teaching people about the history of this music. Bear in mind most people need an introduction to jazz history and these videos fill an important role. Be kind. :)
mmlight 2 years ago
Now had a chance to re-evaluate Tough. Sessions with Red Nichols, Dorsey Clambake 7, Bunny Berigan, Rex Stewart, Condon. Tough's press roll is essentially the same as Baby's, what you can hear of it. I've not seen your piece on Tough, so can't comment further. I do not uderstand your comment that he spread it out more. Wettling, Tough & Krupa studied Dodds, their rolls sound similar, i.e. all on beats 2 and 4. Bauduc is another example.
johnpetters 3 years ago
With all due respect, I knew Zutty Singleton. I once asked him to teach me. He ordered me behind the trap kit and said to play a simple march. Then he said when you learn to make that swing you got it. I found out he was right.
drdee51 3 years ago
Hi
Great comment. That is exactly my point in playing the different versions of the march beat in the video.
Zutty was great.
drummerdoc 3 years ago
Hi Drummerdoc
congratulations for you effort, but John is correct.
The clip is COMPLETELY misleading! it was falsely dubbed on the wrong beat. If you want to be sure, read the auto biography of Baby were he stresses : "It's a three-quarter roll, 3/4 roll ! I told all of them drummers, Tough, Krupa, and others, (he cites names) but they insist in doing it wrong as a two quarter roll!"
TITOMARTINO 3 years ago
Hi.
I wasn't going to comment on John's piece, but given what you say I will make a brief comment.
Yes, John is correct BUT the reason I play the press roll shorter is to emphasize the 2/4 feel of New Olreans jazz. John's playing is too smooth and almost sounds like 4/4. That is why I made the comment about Dave Tough.
drummerdoc 3 years ago
The press roll was played on 2 and 4 and not on the beat, John is correct.
mgimino 3 years ago
My whole point is that Dodds played on 2 and 4 and did not spread out the roll over the whole beat. That is how I play it on my clip.
On the clip John has, the roll is spread out over the beat. My point was that the press roll was designed to even out the beats to make 2 and 4 equal to 1.
I did not post chapter two which is about Dave Tough and how he spread it it out more.
drummerdoc 3 years ago
Dodds himself demonstrates the exact same way John has done on his video on his audio CD where he demonstrates the press roll, and if you listen closely to any recordings you can hear the press roll spread out over the whole beat.
And TBH there are a number of other inaccuracies in this video and the drumming isn't the best demonstration example.
mgimino 3 years ago
We agree that Dodds played beat one as a tap, beat two as a tap with one hand and a roll with the other, beat 3 a tap, beat 4 a tap and roll. My first video is therefore correct. I've attached another video where I overlay my own press roll over Baby's. I think you are missing what Baby Dodds was about. I have been a pro drummer for over 25 years - I recorded with Art Hodes and Wild Bill Davison who both recorded with Dodds, so I do feel that I am qualified to comment.
johnpetters 3 years ago
Dear Drummerdoc,
I am either correct as you state in your comment today or incorrect as per your comment of last week. You can't have it both ways.
Zutty does do something different to Baby. He gets a sort of shuffle type roll, which has a definate 4/4 feel. Not all New Orleans jazz is 2/4. Baby plays 4/4 on the Mutt Carey New Yorkers sessions in the 40s for example. I'll comment on Tough later. Can you direct me to any recording where Baby plays press rolls as you describle them - Best John
johnpetters 3 years ago
I disagree with your interpretation of the press roll. As you can see from the baby Dodds clip in my video, he plays the press roll on the beat, not sustained for a whole beat. What you are playing was more common after Dave Tough and the Chicago school influenced dixie style jazz.
Just look at the baby Dodds clip.
drummerdoc 3 years ago
Hi,
The clip of Dodds is dubbed onto a silent film.. The press roll is played on beats 2 and 4 as demonstrated in my video. Check out Baby's talking CD. He demonstrates this on 'Careless Love', and on the Shimmy beat/press roll track. He describes it as a 3/4 roll. Playing on the beat would destroy the music. Krupa, Tough & Wettling got their rolls from Baby. Another good example of Baby's press roll can be found on 'Wolverine Blues' from 1/6/46. He is the most difficult drummer to imitate.
johnpetters 3 years ago
With great respect this video is inaccurate. Whilst Baby Dodds was a founding father of traditional jazz drumming, it is unlikely he invented the style. There were other drummers - Zutty Singleton born 1989, Black Happy Goldston Born 1894, Tony Sbarbaro b 1897 - all important contributors
johnpetters 3 years ago
Hi
Yes, in a sense you are correct. No one really knows who invented it. But Dodds tends to get the credit in the jazz history books, possibly because of whom he recorded with and possibly because of the later demonstrations he did.
In my history of jazz course I always mention what we do not know and I always mention Singleton.
But in a short video I could not give examples of everyone so I concentrated on Dodds.
drummerdoc 3 years ago
Quality! Post the other chapters!
gensis23 3 years ago
Glad you like it. One other chapter has been posted. Chapter 5, featuring Max Roach. Will consider doing the others.
drummerdoc 3 years ago