Wilton Felder's isolated bass on "I Want You Back"

[zxcadw123]

Best bassline to a song ever, full stop!

[STONEMAKERCANADA]

:)

[Pop3y3Cahn]

@1987raaf

Troll!

[Stevieboy130664]

Is he playing with a pick?

[Mattmann3]

@Stevieboy130664 Sounds like flatwounds with a pick to me

[MikeOnBassGuitar]

i'm sure it's the original, you can hear the guitar leaking into the mix.

[born2groove422]

brilliant

[TheCubetap]

@thumzupp One dead giveaway, even without checking the documentation - crank it waaay up - the bleed through from the backing track doesn't have any of the vocals in it. The Jacksons hadn't yet added their parts. The lesson: focus less on "polish" and more on supporting the song. This track is gold, warts and all. In the context of the song, the little buzzes that seem like mistakes (aka "digging in") just melt away. Like butta.

[thumzupp]

@TheCubetap Actually about twenty 'dead giveaways' if I had time to point them out. Most obvious for the untrained ears located east and west of your cabbage brain: @ 2:09 when the arpeggio buildup begins there are audible inaccuracies that can't be heard in the Motown release including a harmonic @ 2:14. Also, the F root note of the proceeding chorus @ 2:24 is very buzzy on this rendition, again, not on the release and you can be pretty sure there's an instrumental of this floating around

[TheCubetap]

@thumzupp Youtube won't let me put links here, so Google Rick Suchow. There is an archive of isolated bass tracks pulled directly from motown 8 track masters, this is one of them. There is also a version of this tune with a rough mix bass + all tracks except the drums. He has permission from Universal Music Group, owner of the Motown catalog, to make them available on his site.

[thumzupp]

@TheCubetap somewhere on the cybernet. The lesson: focus less on being a muso noob, even less on 'supporting' a classic that will endure for another forty years with or without your help or mine and did I mention? Stop being a muso noob. Now melt away like butta.

[TheCubetap]

@thumzupp Try this: start a Protools session, drop the orignal on to one track, drop the audio from this vid into another track. You'll have to drag one of the tracks along the timeline to get them to sync up. When they do, it's pretty obvious. Loop any suspect parts, fade the iso track in and out. Every last articulation is the same.

[TheCubetap]

@thumzupp You don't know what you're talking about. This really is the Felder track, lifted from the 8 track masters. The source is well documented. It was originally posted on Rich Suchow's website. You're probably so used to hearing over-processed tone with punch-ins to fix every little mistake that I'm sure it makes it hard to believe. Go listen to the finished track. I can't believe you didn't pick it up.

[baburjabal]

@thumzupp ur right, I picked it up right away, after spending years trying to polish my technique I can spot immediately when someone is doing a sloppy, buzzy rendition (I resemble that remark!). It's not well executed, but it is nice to put this up for people trying to learn.

[thumzupp]

@baburjabal Exactly, fair dues to the user who uploaded it. realistically tho, the playing is okay, not outstanding and as for people talking about unmistakable Jameson/Felder tone, it sounds like a Squier or something.

[MrBunnerabb]

The bass always moved the groove in Motown and R&B and it was louder in teh mix than in any other label's releases. This is why. And yeah, this is Felder.

[stefanobass75]

great line

[TheAlmightyBassist]

Session bassists, are geniouses...sadly the music world does not seem to know who they are and what they can do...

[born2groove422]

one of the best basslines ever recorded

[WeCamefortheDead]

I love the sound Felder is getting. I can definitely see how people would think was Jamerson. Both Felder and Jamerson are plugged directly into the mix, they aren't recorded through an amp or anything. On the other hand, Jamerson preferred more distortion in the sound when he played.

[Galantski]

It was the rhythm section more than the singers that caught my ear when I first heard this song. This is what bass playing is all about. Jamison or Felder? In a review of the song at All Music Guide, Ed Hogan writes: "The recording session for the extremely energetic 'I Want You Back' lists (Freddie) Perren and (Fonce) Mizell on piano, Crusaders bassist Wilton Felder, guitarists David T. Walker, Louis Shelton, and Don Peake doubling the bass line, and drummer Gene Pello." Thanks for the upload!

[whatanightmare1]

One of the unsung heroes of Motown. This is sooooo sweet.

[ritchie56]

this is the Jackson 5!!

[jwjeffrey]

Jamerson had started to drink and was becommining un reliable.So Motown started to us other bassists like Bob Babbit ans wilton Felder who played bass on the side and I believe Reggie McBride exspecially after Gordy move Motown to California.

[PWB87]

Without a doubt Felder. He recorded in on a Tele Bass I believe. 

[Jazzworkerbee]

Felder also plays bass, but this ain't him! Jamerson and his claw technique all day!!

[megavega4]

@Jazzworkerbee This is most certainly... without doubt or argument. NOT... repeat ... NOT Jamerson. 1) He never had that much brightness in his tone. 2) It was cut on the West Coast in 1969.. Jamerson was still in Detroit. 3) Freddie Perren.. the producer has been interviewed many times about this and has been consistent about who played on it. The style is Jamerson's, but by this point they kept a library of his lines on file so that they could write out parts in this style for other bassists

[gentillyguy1]

According to an interview with Felder in Bass Player magazine, this part was written - he added a few improvs here and there though.

[tdelamont]

Jamerson played on the David Ruffin version of this song, this was the J5 original. Wilton was a pick player, as you can hear. Also, JJ's take on this is far better. But back in the day, nobody really gave a shit about the bass line because in the days of AM radio, nine times out of ten, the bass got lost anyways.

[malicant123]

Good job but you should put a drum beat in the back ground for timing.

[SquierClassicVibe35]

This is something to hear. Precision bass with flatwounds?

[HendrixPrinceFlea89]

It's in the style of Jamerson, but this is Felder.

[radcam69]

not Jamerson.

[ericmover]

wilton felder did not use a pick. he just has GREAT control. i mean, he is only one of the greatest bass players of all time!!!!!! check out his work on albums(or CD's) Ethiopian Knights by Donald Byrd, Root Down by Jimmy Smith, or Live At The Lighthouse by Grant Green. NO PICK!!! Trust me

[neopandorex]

sloppy is soul

[WayneFederman]

Thank you so much. This is inspiring and educational.

[jaycenwise]

I could listen to this all day..... cool as the other side of the pillow.

[JoGeogiRiPaul]

@jaycenwise HA! Family Guy Reference

[withstrings]

That is Wilton Felder the GREAT saxophonist/bassist from the Crusaders or Jazz Crusaders...one of my personal faves because He like Gerald Albright play BOTH instruments like myself. Also, Wilton used no pick on this song, This is fingerstyle groove with the tone control open on the Pbass. It's all in the fingers!

No pick.

[ocean4315]

I think Jamerson played David Ruffin's version of the same song. It must have been a written part, because both guys are playing exactly the same line on both versions.

[L1stener]

I'm missing something here. Where does Wilton Felder come in?? This is James Jamerson.

[sverrir48]

@L1stener

Wikipedia credits Wilton Felder

[blackwaxjh]

@sverrir48 Wilton Felder did play bass on most of the Jackson 5's early hits because they were cut in Los Angeles rather than in Detroit. James Jamerson did play on a few J5 tracks though those were mainly album tracks from their first three albums.

[Markgr122]

@L1stener -Nope

[Bassman968]

@L1stener

Definitely not Jamerson....the style of the bassline is most certainly influenced by James, but the attack is different, and the tone much thinner. James never used this much treble on his sound.

[ANAALLAH1]

@Bassman968 exactly!!! It takes a good Jamerson student to detect this.

[radcam69]

@L1stener Not JJ.

[westboundno9]

@L1stener none of the Jackson 5 first hits were recorded at Motown - they were all recorded in LA not Detroit with a different set of musicians. If you at the song list at the end of the movie STANDING IN THE SHADOWS OF MOTOWN you'll see the Jackson 5 hits do not appear

[ANAALLAH1]

@westboundno9 But Jamerson did play on some of their songs. "Darling Dear, Everybody Somebody's Fool, Girl don''t take your love from Me" and others. Just study the style.



[megavega4]

@ANAALLAH1 I've always wondered if it was him on "Girl Don't Take Your Love From Me". The style is his.. but the tone is different. We all know it's him on "Darling Dear." How can you be sure about the others? I always thought it was him on "Never Had A Dream Come True" from the ABC album.

[ANAALLAH1]

@megavega4 The tone sounded like his to me. Part of it is just knowing the style. I would say that I have a special connection with the musicians. Like I had already guessed who was playing on what, way before I saw the documentary. You can feel it. Like I knew that it wasn't him on "Midnight train to Georgia", and "Mercy, mercy me"!, That's how I found out about Bob Babbitt. I have learned most of the basslines by tuning in to him, back then, imagining what he would've played, then I get it!!

[megavega4]

@ANAALLAH1 I understand the comment about having a connection with the musicians. I share that as well. Babbitt had a bit less aggressive style than Jamerson, less wandering and more structured, whereas Jamerson sounded like he could solo throughout the whole song and still sound like a bassline... ala "Darling Dear." But it's amazing to me how one player could be THE backbone of an entire label to the point where they would write out basslines for other players based on his own prior lines.

[ANAALLAH1]

@megavega4 Right!!!! I totally agree

[ANAALLAH1]

@westboundno9 When I went to the Motown Museum in Detroit it was stated that some of their early hits were recorded their. Berry Gordy also stated it in his book To Be Loved, that the Jackson 5 stayed with him for a while at his house in Detroit in the beginning.

[bassbymichele]

@L1stener HI! James Jamerson was in the original I want you back by David Ruffin...

[HaliB75]

@bassbymichele David Ruffin's version is not the original.

[ANAALLAH1]

@HaliB75 Yeah it actually was. It was never released. It was decided that it would make a better hit for J5. This was Motown Policy. That every so often a artist would remake a song from another artists. This was a way of recycling hits. It worked. If you notice their a bunch of songs that were remade by Motown artists. Like Gladys' grapevine. I believe Marvin's was recorded first, but released after Glady's. So his appeared to be the remake.

[L1stener]

@bassbymichele

Thanks for this thread. Listened to this when I was 12 years old, many decades ago! Still sound amazing. Props to Mr. Felder then!

[wmbrown6]

@L1stener - I presume Felder played the same bass on many of Barry White's (and the Love Unlimited Orchestra's) big hits of the 1973-75 period.

[megavega4]

@bassbymichele I don't think David Ruffin recorded the original of this version.. simply because this song started out as a different tune called "I Want To Be Free" written for Gladys Knight and The Pips. It was re written for the J-5, so I'm sure Ruffin recorded it after the J-5 had a hit with it.

[ANAALLAH1]

actually David Ruffin did record it first and it was never released. Jamerson actually played on that original version. Now there are a few other musicians who played on this who said that they recorded this with Jamerson. However we can consider that most of the J5 stuff was done in LA, so it's possible. Also if you study the style of this anyone who knows Jamerson's style can tell how he would've played it. This you can hear in Ruffin's version. I know the family so that's pretty trusty.

[megavega4]

@ANAALLAH1 If you have a link or a copy of the David Ruffin version, hook me up. Because the history behind this song that I'm familiar with is that it was initially called "I Want To Be Free" and it was being written for Gladys Knight. Berry signed the J-5 and had it rewritten for them specifically. So what did Ruffin actually record?

[ANAALLAH1]

@megavega4 No problem just type in David Ruffin's version of I want you back. Now that's in no way denying the history that you stated about Gladys' history. I love to see that there is another Motown history out here! But yes It was ABC that was written for them, followed by 'the love you save", "Mama's Pearl" and others. It was the policy of Motown that songs had to be remade by other artists. This is the way that they recycle hits. We'll talk. Peace

[ANAALLAH1]

@bassbymichele true indeed!

[ANAALLAH1]

@bassbymichele true true true!!! Study the style you can tell.

[HaliB75]

@L1stener Not Jamerson...many thought it was Jamerson...he played in the Jamerson style because it was a Motown song.

[JC10255]

@L1stener - Not Jamerson. West Coast recording usings Motowns west coast guys (Felder, Newton, etc etc)

[Allmanfan456]

@L1stener James Jameson plays on the David Ruffin version. Not the Jackson 5 version.

[vandyboy25]

@L1stener maybe he's talking about who's in the photo...?

[TheCallumac]

@L1stener

Hi. Its a misconception that the late great Jamerson (or indeed Carol Kaye) played this bassline.

It is indeed the work of Wilton Felder.

[whatanightmare1]

@TheCallumac yep, in fact, Carol Kaye flat out took the credit for it once upon a time. Now she is a good bassist in her own right, but she didn't do this one :~)

[ocean4315]

Listen to isolated bass on Michael Jackson's Beat It. It was played by guitarist Steve Lukather. Same sound.

[ocean4315]

I would definitely say that this is played with a pick. Probably Fender with flatwounds. The old Fenders had a lot of bottom end.

No doubt.

[RHINOPLASM]

Those are definately fingers. Great bass line

[marazm1]

no, this is a pick! you can hear the sharp attack and fast decay. That's a pick, trust me I know b/c I play bass

[RHINOPLASM]

So do I. The fast decay is from the mute on the bass I believe. I suppose it could go either way, but I am leaning to the finger end...

[RHINOPLASM]

@marazm1

Nope...on second listen I think you are right. That is a pick!

[bassistlovesjamerson]

Gotta be a pick unless he's got extreemly hard fingers.I've been playing bass over 40 years and you get to know these things

[Wefunkyou]

@bassistlovesjamerson Yes, with a hard attack and hard gauge flatwound strings you could nearly get a pick sound considering the mute under the strings that cuts the decay. Listen to Kool Bell on the very first Kool & The Gang LP, "Sea on tranquility". Sounds as edgy as a pick, but with the fingers !!

[jsnhrv]

This is sooo cool!

You can even hear a little bit of an intonation problem.but it's great.

[bassistlovesjamerson]

@jsnhrv That will be the Flatwound strings my friend

[davythekid]

Nah..I don't think he's playing with a pick..but I can see why you would think that. I hear alot of finger-style runs that don't quite come off that way with a pick (I play about 50% of the time with a pick) sounds like he has the tone knob pushed right up there on a Fender with flatwounds..and he's digging in..which is giving it that percussive "Click"..with very little to no compression/limiting (which, used improperly, can mush the attack of the notes) ONE OF THE GREAT ALL TIME BASS PARTS!

[shanesperling]

amazing bass part

[brianreading]

Hmm, I never really noticed it, but that sounds very much like it's play with a pick when it's isolated. I didn't know that was his style.

[torontonian77]

Wow, that's really cool. Did Felder play with a pick?

[twinkieramirez]

Sounds like it.