Converting because of a Near-Death Experience - part 2 of 2

[Tarynus]

The only time I'd watch a psychic is if they did go mental & shout "YOUR UNCLE IS BURNING IN HELL!!!" just because it would be so funny

Plus it would REALLY freak my mum out, she's a heavy believer in contacting the dead, but just seeing her shock at that exclamation would be hilarious

[MegaDimon1991]

I am going to hell and i know it and still i am christian.So you argument is wrong.

[ndrthrdr1]

@MegaDimon1991 Based on what evidence?

[MegaDimon1991]

smoke some dmt.

[CallMeRiverton]

@aninjru They don't want to hear what he wants to say because they've heard it all before. In every NDE, people always report the same religion they are/were a part of. If Christianity were true, why don't Hindus see Jesus?

[aninjru]

Cure for death = Jesus, we have it :) Near Death Experiences are true, not chemicals and whatnot.

Anecdotal evidence = evolution. Can't be tested or recreated. Why do we have no transitional phases in the fossil record?

[ganados0]

@aninjru" Anecdotal evidence = evolution. Can't be tested or recreated. Why do we have no transitional phases in the fossil record? "

Yes it has and is practiced in industrial medicine and agriculture fields every day. It has been observed in fish, lizards and insects and there's alot of living and fossil candidates for transitional species.

[ndrthrdr1]

@aninjru said "Anecdotal evidence = evolution"

Your comment shows that you don't know that the evidence for evolution is overwhelming.

Google Project Steve to see why virtually all scientists know that all life has evolved.

[aninjru]

@ndrthrdr1

Evidence as in absolutely no transitional fossils...?

[ndrthrdr1]

@aninjru Every fossil is a transitional fossil. Since evolution is a very gradual process, involving one (or only a couple at most) base pairs at a time, the animal or plant fossilized looks like it's parents and children. Larger changes per generation mean it can't reproduce and pass DNA.

Take a picture every minute from birth to death of a person. Which picture is a transitional picture?

All of them, of course. The person changes from infant to toddler to child to teen to adult, etc.

[aninjru]

@ndrthrdr1

Yes, but never does the child start to grow wings. The reproductive process is internal. Once the sperm and the egg meet it starts the life of a new human. It does not matter between what two pictures because that Child growing into an adult is still a human. And always will be.

[ndrthrdr1]

@aninjru Each generation is slightly different. The more generations, the more difference.

[ndrthrdr1]

@aninjru A human child sprouting wings sometime during one lifetime is not how evolution works, and it's not what the theory of evolution describes.

[aninjru]

@ndrthrdr1 Haha I know, I was trying to throw some humor in. Thank referring to it as the Theory of Evolution though. I am a creationist, and that will never change. You are an evolutionist, and likely that won'tr change. You have your support group to back up your opinions,but you must know that it is all speculation, and not fact. It will never be fact, no matter what people label the Theory of Evolution as does not change what happened in the beginning in reality, where everything came from.

[DemePoole]

@aninjru Sigh. There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

[TaiFerret]

@aninjru So you believe in NDE and not in evolution? Interesting! I once read about someone who had an NDE and could see into the past and the future. She could see the whole process of evolution.

[RichT519]

This is to good to be true guys. Out of curiosity I checked out that website and as it turns out the owner of the website has a book he is selling about NDEs. Its right on his homepage and you can click on it and it leads straight to a website to buy it. What an unbiased website.

[Sugardaddy501]

This caller is a lets go slow so h e c a n n c o m p r e h e n d.

[SuperDecarlos]

I once fainted, was no way near death, but when i fainted i saw a bright light, a field of wheat, i felt light and saw some deceased family members, (aunts and uncles), i fainted because i saw my leg bone exposed, my life never was in danger. Sorry to disapoint, but the brain can play some tricks...

[HybridD91]

@SuperDecarlos Actually in a testing experiment in some Air Force lab, this guy fainted because of large amount of G-Forces that put an extreme amount of pressure on his brain and cut off oxygen for a split second. He fainted and saw bright lights and his life "flash". You can research it if you want. I saw it in this documentary and they had video footage.

[jc2k301]

Dudes, Grow up, you obviously never had a near death experience, nor an awakening, learn to tap into the other side of you rather then acting like you know everything

[hoboboxerjoe]

@jc2k301, I've had a near death experience. I was dead for over two minutes. If you don't think that is long, try counting one second at a time. Since then I have been fascinated with the psychology behind near death experiences. I have looked into the surprisingly large amount of studies done in that area.

When you die, or your body begins to shut down, your brain can release vast amounts of a chemical known as DMT (google it). If you research this a bit, you might be surprised at your findings

[jc2k301]

@hoboboxerjoe

Well I had an awakening where my consciousness expanded into everything. So really, I don't care for any of the science available.

[jerico641]

PLEASE don't behave as if the totally unproven and absurd notion of life after death is the common-sense argument; fuck, that pisses me off. Asking THEM to grow up when you're the one presumably advocating a fairy tale realm that nobody above the age of ten should believe in?? The guys are behaving in a very adult fashion. Of course, if you don't believe me, you can always slap your hands over your ears and yell LALALALALALA!! until it all goes away.

[jc2k301]

@jerico641

How about, no. :]

[jerico641]

Look, let me put it this way: do you believe in trolls under bridges or that Zeuss and Athena watch over you from Olympus? No, of course you don't. So please, apply a little common sense to this situation, too. When people actually die clinically for a few moments, oxygen shuts off, the heart stops and all kinds of weird hallucinations can occur. I'm no doctor, but I've heard it all before. It's just drastic physical change that makes people think they see weird, supernatural things.

[jc2k301]

@jerico641

Look at who is offended, haha :] I love you! Enjoy being so independent on your physical mind. I'm not religious, I am awakened. I'm sorry that you're so behind that you "Think" you are smarter than I, but we are all god, rather you agree or not. We all are one piece of one consciousness, which people will call god, but I call it the "Isness" The only way experience this is to allow your inner presence take over your mind, which means you stop thinking, You can't think of not thinkin

[jerico641]

Wow...I'm having trouble thinking of a way to respond to such idiocy..."Isness"? That's got to be a joke, right? If not, I'm sorry I ever started this debate. And by the way, while I can still think thoughts of thinkin', I wanted to ask if you're writing all of this with your freaking toes from a padded cell someplace...If not, I think maybe you and "Isness" should consider checking in to one soon.

[jc2k301]

@jerico641

:] <3

[jerico641]

Whatever, my man...say hi to Isness for me.

[jeanpierrel]

its sad to see how much energie you put to not believe in someting that you did not experience yourself

[JNdigital]

why in their wrap up do the Atheists say people always describe warm and fuzzy experiences, when the caller clearly said some descriptions were darker, even though their was no Devil to speak of or blame everything on? do they just not register what what the hell the caller said & rehash whatever preconceived answers they already came up with?

[md3ck]

They were talking about what a psychic would tell you.

[plimbuff]

He also described meeting Jesus.

You're the one who should listen better.

[JNdigital]

what's your point about describing some NDE's as meeting Jesus; people, especially from Christian cultures, described such things (even though they were probably slightly varying), while people from other spiritual creeds likely described differing experiences to an certain extent. Perhaps our preconceived thoughts affect how we interpret the experience or lack thereof. These were glimpses of it.

how does it indicate I should listen better? I don't follow what you mean or are implying plimbuff

[plimbuff]

@JNdigital

If your memory is really that bad, you need to read your original post, then read my response to it.

You claimed the atheists misrepresented the caller's "dark" description of NDE's by making it "warm and fuzzy".

When in fact the caller was describing mostly light sides.

If you didn't understand me the first time, I doubt you'll understand this time either.

[JNdigital]

your tone sucks.. and yet it still doesn't make relevant sense to me, what you're saying

so what if most of the descriptions were 'good'; some of them were 'dark' (even though there was no devil described).. and the hosts acted like everything was painted "warm and fuzzy".. so people like you assume everyone's a charlatan or making it up

[plimbuff]

@JNdigital, your totally missing the point. Please read carefully.

The Atheists DON'T CARE if it's a "light" or "dark" description. They only care weather it's TRUE OR NOT.

You seem to think that if something is "dark" then it must be more valid. This is a LOGICAL FALLECY, and the Atheists know it.

Sorry, but the atheists don't share your view that "negative" NDE's are somehow more believable. They are far too logical to believe something so obviously stupid.

[JNdigital]

the guy on the right said if some experiences were novel or unique it would be more believeable and some of the outliers or unique descriptions were hellish or dark (which those who died were consistently totld did not last indefinitely, only temporarily if it did happen). also, people with varying "beliefs" about the afterlife all reported similar information that correlated (from the numerous accounts the caller had read).

"far too logical" "something so stupid". they do happen however

[plimbuff]

@JNdigital, It seems that your only debate tactic is to MISREPRESENT your opponents position, and then criticize it. lol (that's called a "strawman" argument) You are stubbornly misunderstanding, and misrepresenting the atheists position.

The Atheists DON'T CARE if it's a "light" or "dark" description, because neither one would make it more valid. They only care weather it's TRUE OR NOT.

Stop attempting straw-man arguments. It's a very dishonest and shameful debate tactic.

[plimbuff]

Sadly, straw-man arguments seem to be the only thing that theists have left.

Most have given up on proving God, so now they resort to misrepresenting atheist positions.

[JNdigital]

whether its true or not? yeah they do happen. so evidently its true, regardless what you or anyone conjectures. Actually atheists argue against strawman arguments (commonly). That's been my observation. so to say that's exclusive to theists is a misrepresentation. Maybe you might want to watch the couple of videos I made about theology/ science and strawman arguments acting as distractions and false representations.

also, I'm not misrepresenting the atheist position; I am questioning its merit

[JNdigital]

the guy on the right said that this kind of stuff only happens to people who think they're going to heaven and or the afterlife, etc. However, the caller clearly said it's happened to people of varying beliefs and points of view, according to numerous accounts.

Either way, until you've experienced it for yourself (or lack thereof), you won't know exactly and can't say without a degree of faith & or hypothesis what happens after this life. do you prefer no afterlife nor experience beyond life?

[JNdigital]

"You are stubbornly misunderstanding and misrepresenting the atheist position"

this accusation, in my view as I see it, reflects yourself better than it does mine, except it might read "misrepresenting a theists position". it seems stubborn atheists and theists each fall into similar traps of arrogance and the tendancy to exclude and ridicule outsiders, at the cost of their own ignorance and closed mind & heart sometimes.

[JNdigital]

no offense, if you made your point more clearly, maybe I would've understood better what you were aiming to say (even though I still do not think it discredits what I was pointing out). Perhaps, (in my view as I see it) your tone sucked, because my initial comment was perturbed, so you picked up on that.

[adevezar]

THEIST DAY (only for atheysts)

In the next 23 December i purpose a theist day. Let's get rid of all we know about atheism, phylosophies and denying god, and get rid of all the bible teatchings, and let's suppose that we live with god.

Just 24 hour in our lifes.

LET US LIVE WITH GOD JUST FOR ONE DAY.

We can be heroes, just for one day.

[TheCynicalLiberal]

Even if its all true, whats the point of the brain? Why is it that there's all these calculations inside of the brain that relate directly with every cognitive function and what would be the point of a dualistic soul? If there was a dualistic soul and a God, what would even be the point of obsessing over supernatural things that aren't verifiable by science? That God wouldn't want us to know about the spiritual stuff, because it would, obviously, be withholding tangible evidence, so why worry?

[TheCynicalLiberal]

Even if the NDE was a true transcendental experience and dualism was true, why would that mean the Bible's true. Moses raped Children and condoned racially based, generational slavery. If bad people went to a hell, I'm sure he'd be there.

[TheCynicalLiberal]

I've had, what would be considered, an OBE, and, to be honest, it wasn't that accurate. It was very vivid but not too accurate. I think its like an LSD trip. People who are indoctrinated in Buddhists experience Buddhist themes, and people who are indoctrinated in Christianity experience a Christian theme, because they expect it. There's a DMT release, they know they're dying, and they see what they expect. Carl Jung saw a Hindu temple carved into a meteor over space.

[yourpimpking]

Final thought for the atheist out there cause it doesn't affect the theist....In your death bed with your life escaping and having no hope to live would you still be an atheist or would you say i have nothing to loose what the hell God if your out there save me???

[chk428]

I agree, when atheists are passing away in their death beds, I guarantee that 99% of them will convert at the last moment. God instilled us with the desire to seek Him and the desire will be so strong on the death bed that it will shatter the pride and ego of the atheist. An atheists biggest problem is their pride and ego. I know because I used to be an egotistical atheist. It took me 7 years to understand Christianity.

[jerico641]

Speak for yourself, brother. Talk about the pride and ego of the atheist!! What do you think you are, humble and unassuming?? You seem to speak for everybody when you talk about your god; now THAT'S arrogance. And btw, I read the whole christian bible cover to cover the summer after I graduated high school. I understood it as soon as I read it, and realized that, while some of it was entertaining, the entire book was obvious fantasy.

[chk428]

He's not my God, He's our God. Ok so you're under 25. It's normal for you to rebel. Keep doing what you're doing. Eventually you'll come back to worshiping the Lord. Just remember what I said here :P

[jerico641]

You really don't see the arrogance and egotism in your statements, do you? I thought it was intentional, but now I'm thinking that you're really too lame to see it. YOUR GOD IS NOT THE GOD FOR EVERYONE!  Get that through your head. You believe in him, fine and dandy, but don't count me in on it. And I happen to be 46, a new grandfather and haven't bought in to the god thing for about 30 years. And I'll remember your posting for about as long as it took me to realize the bible was b.s.

[chk428]

There is no arrogance or egotism in my statements. I'm completely selfless. You say that our God is not the God for all His creations, that doesn't make any sense. Ok let's say I'm completely wrong about Christianity and it's the wrong religion. At least God will see that I submitted to him in the deepest possible way, acknowledged i'm a sinner and that He is the only perfect force in the universe. Christianity is about losing all your pride and ego and just submitting to God (not man).

[jerico641]

Okay, I see you're still missing the point, so forget the whole arrogance issue. Here is the main point: there is no god. No religion is correct, and all are based on ancient fairy tales. Now, really, come on, you have to know that the bible is nonsense: talkng snakes, burning bushes, parting entire seas, walking on water, etc. If we were talking about anything other than the bible, you'd laugh at all this shit and be embarrassed to tell anyone if you even considered it possible.

[chk428]

You say there is no God. How do you know? Then the argument comes up, how do you know there are no fairies? Then another argument comes up, prove the spaghetti monster doesn't exist..... But throw all that aside. Every human in the world knows about God. You can't toss that aside. We were born with the desire to seek God although a lot of people rebel against that desire because of foolish pride and swelled egos.

[jerico641]

Well, in the first place, I'm afraid the burden of proof is on you to prove that a god DOES in fact exist, not on me for denying that one exists. Also, your argument is cicular. By suggesting that we should all believe in god (the christian god, I'm assuming) because everybody's heard of it, you have to answer for which gods they know of and believe in. Allah, Buddah, the FSM, what? And finally, if pride and a swelled ego suggest thinking for myself, then thanks for the complement.

[HybridD91]

@chk428 We're born atheist and do not seek God as in your god because if that was the case, your God would be the only one and not be created after others. Judaism and Christianity aren't the first religions.

[killuminatiplz]

@chk428 lol, wtf the fuck is up with the spaghetti monster, im hearing it everywhere

[wendighoul]

@killuminatiplz In short the FSM can be thought of as a parody of religion (although some FSMers take it very sriously, and would be mad at me for saying that). The point is the FSMers use similar arguments and tactics as religions (specifically the xtian one) in order to demostrate how ridiculous they perceive them to be. One example would be, while some xtians do not belive in evolution, but intelligent desgin, FSMers do not believe in gravity, but intelligent falling.

[jerico641]

As an atheist, I would say "this is it, I have nothing to lose, I'll let go now and stop being a burden on my family. And in a sense I am immortal on my own, because my kids and grandkids will remember me." See how easy that is?

[jc2k301]

@jerico641

The isness is not a person, it's consciousness.

[jerico641]

Oh shit; another one...well, whatever it is, tell me how to pronounce it (why I don't know); I'm curious, aside from really being concious. Is it eyes-ness or is-ness or what?

[yourpimpking]

One more point it seems that the atheist and the theist are always on the look for evidence to support their believes... Example people searched for this video in order to get more reasons why to keep being an atheist..... another example theist seach for Near Dead Exp videos in order to get more reasons why to keep believing in a God.....We all do this cause of the question "What i?f"

[klhcc]

I'm having a near death experience now - hopefully it's only about 50 years near but it's nearer than it was yesterday.

Peace.

[chevon1920]

Lol, that was fun. I'm happy Matt wasn't on the show, he would have hung up on that dude a long time ago. But I think this was hilarious.

[eboyd32]

also, my mother took care of someone who DID claim to encounter Satan after an NDE (my mother is a nurse).

[LoraSinger]

I think what the caller is trying to express is the Jewish belief in Sheul, a place of darkness that is experienced after death but not necessarily forever.  The Devil is an invention of the NT and did not exist before it.

[tigsdk]

I had a NDE. Didn't convert me to anything.

[toolshopmarathon]

was it a good NDE?

[tigsdk]

No, not particularly. Light was there, but it didn't feel as nice as people always say.

[toolshopmarathon]

how long did it last, if you don't mind me asking.

[toolshopmarathon]

duh....2.25 mins, silly me, but in order for it to be an official NDE your heart had to have stopped beating. But NDEs only occure because its the brain tweeking out due to the lack of oxagen, which I'm sure you already knew

[tigsdk]

You're replying to the wrong person, toolshopmarathon.

[toolshopmarathon]

ooo shit sorry, o well

[madjimms]

Partly true about the lack of oxygen, but how do you account for thousands of people knowing what was going on in the room when they were dead? Sometimes in extreme detail.

Anyway,who knows, it could simply be something very simply that we haven't thought of.

[Macrochenia]

@madjimms-Because the brian is still functional and processing information. There's actually a lot of information on how the brain works during periods of oxygen deprivation.

[madjimms]

Yes, I know.

[samdathi]

I had an LSE experience. Does that count?

[TooTuffShuff]

i passed out in his arms and woke up with a bitchin headache on my living room floor with 2 paramedics standing over me. my dad gave me the heimliche and bruised my ribs, and then my mom stuck her fingers down my throat and pulled out the rest of the sandwich. i was without oxygen for around 2-2.5mins. i was unconscious for another minute after they got me breathing again. i seen no white lights or no jesus or anything. little kids, me being 10, can only live without oxygen for about 2.5mins.

[TooTuffShuff]

here is my NDE, i was in 6th grade getting ready for allstar baseball practice. my dad called me inside from me shooting my BB gun to get something to eat, so i fixed a PBandJ sandwich and i started watching the weather channel and a show about tornados, i took 2 bites of the sandwich, forgot it was in my mouth, i guess i swallowed halfway or something and my neck cramped, it turned sideways, i couldnt breath, i ran to my dad and all i remember was a black fading of my vision.

[destronia123]

I still remember when Matt hung up on this guy in a previous show when he was trying to "prove" god's existence.

"... you need the immovable mover...."

"NO YOU DONT! GOOD-BYE!"

LOL!

[destronia123]

This caller just happens to be a theist AND a moron.

[Salmo77]

Agreed! However, he is kinda nice and not too hilarious so kudois to this moron :)

[Dontcare00001]

I could never do what these guys do because my palm would be permanantly attatched to my face.

[marcluc1988]

I had an NDE but I was on magic mushrooms at the time. lol

[1RadicalOne]

Carlin once said something about Russel's comment about Edwards at the end.

[5k4k1dhtp]

People don't think they will go to hell, which is why they don't see Satan.

The guy said "some people go to hell though"

Well, they don't see Satan because they already have an image of god and jesus,a white guy with a beard and a toga.

But there aren't really any consistent pictures of Satan, and there really aren't many of him at all to begin with, so your mind can't recall it.

[destronia123]

I thnk they do have a mental image of satan (red buy, horn, hooves, pitchfork etc), but seeing that image in a nde would be to terrifying so they either go into denial about seeing the devil or their mind refuses to see the image.

Besides, this caller is cherry-picking his data, si I doubt he presents an accurate overview of NDE's

[1RadicalOne]

I had an NDE once - I never saw any god.

[Muchodelcrazy]

Still discovering tribes of people today. Never heard of Jesus 2000 years after he died for their sins...

...so do all of these people go to hell? What about the people in Africa the day after Jesus died? It would have taken them months for a fraction of them to even know. Months of people dying and going to hell despite God's great gift?

[JackinOffJesus]

Religious people would hop all over that with backwards-logic.

There's an old joke where an eskimo says to a priest, "If I did not know about god and sin, would I go to hell?"

The priest replies, "No. Not if you didn't know."

The eskimo says, "Then why did you tell me."

Religious people in a modern day world have to use constant backwards logic to protect their fairy tale lies.

[1stmaxvinus]

@JackinOffJesus The priest is wrong. If theres is a God, it is reasonable to think he knows one's mind and heart. If someone acts in life in the way ALL we know may considered a good way of living a life, like helping others, not killing, not thefting and so on, then this person would be considered a good person. Use common sense, bro.

[1stmaxvinus]

9:40 "We're gonna move on now". Good way to treat your spectators...

[aninjru]

@1stmaxvinus They don't wanna hear what he has to say. this NDE are real and they can't explain it, besides saying these people are crazy and their brains are releaseing chemicals causing them to hallucinate. These guys claim to be be intelligent, but they are extremely closed-minded.

[KasparHauser4]

It is obvious that the caller is a Republican

[Michigan1985]

npr . org has a good article on this. Just search: Are Spiritual Encounters All In Your Head?

[Michigan1985]

I'm willing to bet this guy is a UFO nut too. He sounds a bit...slow.

[rayruiz12345]

lol hellish

[jtbovis]

That caller was so funny to listen to.

I could probably make up a story right now about something supernatural, put it on a website, and someone somewhere will not only believe it but actually argue for it.

[yourpimpking]

Just as easy as i can make up a story about me dying for 8 minutes and nothing happening and then posting it on an atheist forum or site.... People would also use my story to argue... The real question is what the person has to gain from fabricating a fake story..Or are the chemicals in are brain the explanation implying that the story wasn't made up...

[3L3M3NTO]

he obviously an agnostic.