Defensor Fidei - Lesson One: The Church that Christ built

[vasilyjc1955]

The oldest Christian Church, founded by Christ on Pentacost in AD33, is the Orthodox Church. Antioch was where followers of Christ were first called Christians. Christianity spread from the Easter Empire.Since Rome separated from the Eastern Orthodox, AD1054, does that make Roman Catholics heretics? I find it disturbing that Church history is distorted to justify one's position.

[SteveSpitz1981]

@vasilyjc1955 I don't recall accusing the Orthodox of being heretics in this video or even implying it. The Reformers (Protestants), yes; the Orthodox, not even mentioned.

[vasilyjc1955]

@SteveSpitz1981 I just wanted to address a part of history that is often ignored,specifically by Catholic apologists. The comment made by "andrewoisky" is incorrect, and felt things needed to be put in perspective.

[SteveSpitz1981]

I understand, vasilyjc, but I think we're only going to get into a debate of "one's history against the other's" because the way Catholics see it, the East (Orthodox) separated from Rome and that it was a Catholic Church that was established. But rather than bicker over this, let's focus on what we agree on: Jesus Christ is Lord, and He will come again judging each man according to their deeds. Unity between the East and the West will never take place if we hold on to past hurts and failings.

[vasilyjc1955]

@SteveSpitz1981 Rome separated from the East. In 1054 AD, Roman legates traveled to Constantinople, to deny Patriarch Cerularius the title of Ecumenical Patriarch, and to insist the he recognize the Church of Rome's claim to be the head and mother of all the churches. Cerularius refused, and the leader of the Latin contingent, Cardinal Humbert excommunicated Cerularius. That is history.

[SteveSpitz1981]

@vasilyjc1955 "Cardinal Humbert excommunicated Cerularius." Correct. Excommunication is something the Eastern patriarch had no ecclesial authority to do because the Bishop of Rome, as successor of St. Peter and occupant of the Chair of St. Peter, holds the true and genuine authority of Christ.

[vasilyjc1955]

@SteveSpitz1981 The Eastern Patriarch had every right to excommunicate Rome. Ecclesial authority was not just given to Rome. Each Patriarchate had authority in there own jurisdiction.

Pope Gregory the Great believed that the Blessed Peter established three Petrine Sees of equal authority. Rome,Alexandria, and Antioch, where Peter was bishop for seven years.

In the Church of the first millennium there was no papal primacy "by divine right", in jurisdiction or authority over the whole church.

[SteveSpitz1981]

"And he says to him again after the resurrection, 'Feed my sheep.' It is on him that he builds the Church, and to him that he entrusts the sheep to feed. And although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single Chair, thus establishing by his own authority the source and hallmark of the (Church's) oneness.

[SteveSpitz1981]

… No doubt the others were all that Peter was, but a primacy is given to Peter, and it is (thus) made clear that there is but one flock which is to be fed by all the apostles in common accord. If a man does not hold fast to this oneness of Peter, does he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he deserts the Chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, has he still confidence that he is in the Church?

[SteveSpitz1981]

… This unity firmly should we hold and maintain, especially we bishops, presiding in the Church, in order that we may approve the episcopate itself to be the one and undivided." Cyprian, The Unity of the Church, 4-5 (A.D. 251-256).

[Clipwizards]

@vasilyjc1955 Nope, the Orthodox separated from Rome, not the other way around...Thus the RCC is the Church of Christ.

[SteveSpitz1981]

@Clipwizards Bear in mind that the ROMAN Catholic Church is but one RITE (i.e. the Latin rite) in the Catholic Church, thus it is erroneous to say that the true church is the Roman Catholic Church. We mustn't forget our brothers in the Eastern rites, and so we must say that it is the CATHOLIC Church that is the true church. Yes, the Church's "base" is in Rome, but there's more than just Roman Catholics. ;-)

[pippochap]

@vasilyjc1955 The Great Schism of 1054 Ad - Is the first recognition of the title "Eastern Orthodox Church". Before that the east was, and always where, in union and under the authority of the bishop of Rome. The majority of all, and any church histoy that is viewed as creditable, all teach the above truth as fact.

[vasilyjc1955]

@pippochap The entire Church prior to the Schism was not under any authority of Rome. In the Church of the first millennium there was no papal primacy "by divine right" in jurisdiction or authority over the whole church. All the Councils decisions support the collegial rule of the bishops. One Patriarch did not go over the head of another Patriarch to exercise authority or rule.

[pippochap]

@vasilyjc1955 Man, you got to be joking? Then their would have been NO Schism...... Would have been no need for one, do you get it? Yes, there was those "churches" outside the athority of the Bishop of Rome, they were called heretics. Look, this is common history (elementry). The Eastern Orthodox Church is in NO hersey, and by all means an Holy apostolic church. But please, what we are arguing about has all been played out, and anyone with any truth in him will recognized the Roman papacy.

[joeborgx]

Jesus said you shall know them by their fruits (not words) not very positive fruits these days--ask the molested boys ...what about when there were 3 popes all saying he was the 1 true!! and the inquisition?? The scriptures says a lot--if you have ears to hear --then hear

[SteveSpitz1981]

Joe, the abuse scandal is a result of human failings (sin), not any failing of the Church itself, and I agree: it's an issue that plagues Christendom as a whole today. The same can be said for the Inquisition, that atrocities occurred during it, but at the same time, the intent behind the inquisition was to oust Muslims charading as Christians in Spain. Why was this so? To prevent the equivalent of 9/11 taking place in the kingdom of Spain.

[andrewoisky]

catholic church is genuinely founded by christ..no doubt about it..all we have to do is study the catholic history and its doctrine..

[wintersdemise]

This is a great video! For as long as it's been posted, I can't believe nobody has commented on it. Great Job!