What Must I Do To Be Saved? Craig vs Ally (HQ) 2/12

[DrKildem]

If God loves all then why does he put people in hell for an eternity?

[meterojinn]

Hardly any Muslims were clapping after the speech, show at least respect for the debater. You don't have to believe in what he says.

[38387205]

Started watching the debate. It has started as a disappointment. Craig is yet another who selectively reads the bible.

Read (Malachi 1:1-3) Who does God hate ?

Christians state God cannot allow evil to go unpunished. Every sin must receive it's just due ? Then how can the paralyzed man in Luke 5:17-26 be forgiven for sin ?

As for the law. Jesus fulfilled (carried out) the law. Why don't Christians ? If you are honest then you know you need to follow Jesus example of holding to the law.

[epotkun]

Sir, can we have now the part 1 of this video? Thank you so much!

[DroppinTruth]

where's part 1 ?

[Christianjr4]

@DroppinTruth

I deleted it because the sound was muted by YouTube due to a copyright claim on a small segment of music that it contained at the beginning. As soon as I have the time, I'll try and re-upload it. In the meantime, you can find the full debate by looking at the videos to the right (ie. users Nazam and MuslimByChoice have the full debate uploaded--click on their videos).

[QuranTafseer]

The Quran echos the call of the OT which seems not to be as deviated as the concept of the cross, i guess christians need to convience their jewish cousins first lol,

[chunkyjake6644]

Is there some kind of SuperGod who makes the rules that God must obey in Christian theology? It keeps on talking about Jesus having to pay for our sins, or God *having* to enact punishment for sins. If God is omni-whatever, God can make up the rules, and can therefore forgive without punishing. Please explain, Christians. Thanks.

[ByGodAnointed]

@chunkyjake6644 JESUS IS GOD MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH FRIST OF ALL . HE'S NOT OMNI-WHATEVER HE'S THE ONLY TRUE LIVING GOD. HE DOES FORGIVE WITHOUT PUNISHING THATS WHY JESUS DIED HE WAS PUNISHED FOR US. PUNISHMENT COMES WHEN WE DON'T OBEY WHAT HE COMMANDED US TO DO. I PRAY THAT HE HE FORGIVE YOU FOR YOUR WHATEVER ATTIUDE TOWARDS HIM AND HE ENLIGTHEN YOUR EYES-IN JESUS NME

[jamima444]

if mothers can forgive there horrendous crimes sons and genuinely still love them.then i think its totally acceptable to believe GOD can.

[oodlesofosz]

LOL He said "Kugan". He can't even pronounce Koran or Quran

[yistackness]

Christianjr4: why is the first video of this debate not avaliable? Was it flagged by a bunch of people trying to take it down? That makes me want to see it even more, lol. Where can I find it?

[HaligonianType1]

@yistackness Part 1 got yanked because Sabir and Dr. Craig both walked out naked and didn't get any clothing on until part 2.

[yistackness]

@HaligonianType1 Ah! So I guess you're the one that yanked it down to save it for yourself? Where do you keep it? In a shoebox under the bed? lol

[omnissient]

@yistackness atheists dont flag videos.

[yistackness]

@omnissient Isn't that a universal claim? ....and here I thought atheists did not make universal claims!

[1TruthExposer]

why is the first video missing?

[PUP135]

Ezikiel 18:20 (see my post below) clearly states the son is responsible for his doings and the father for his. We cant depend on Jesus or any other being to redeem us we are responsible for our selves. It also says that if we do wrong we should turn (repent to God) that means we should not belive that some one else died for our wrong doings, we should repent ourselves. Ezikiel shows original sin is not inherited but every one is responsible for themselves this is same teaching in the Quraan.

[DuckHunts]

Christians hold that Jesus is son of God. Jesus was the only 'prophet' that forgives sins and rose from the dead, therefore God is reaching out to gentiles(non-jews) to deliver a message that God is not wrathful to sinners and they can be forgiven. There is no contradiction. If we turn to Jesus we are repenting to God, one and the same.

[PUP135]

Fact remains the verse clearly states Jesus ransom is not responsible for washing away my sins...and if i dont accept jesus a my saviour i cant attain sulvation according to the church. where this verse clearly states that my salvation is not dependent on jesus being a ransom but the good and evil actions i persue or choose...

[0lijfje]

That is why you don' t build theology on one verse, neither Muslims nor Christians do that. Both have hermeneutical and exegetical principles which you cannot just ignore. One of them is "context" and the context of the passage from Ezechiel you're referring to, is not about how you get saved...

[PUP135]

ok read the context it speaks about inheritance of Sin from Father to Son. Verse 19 ask the question "Why does the Son NOT inherit the sin of the father?" (who did wrong). Just how you christians say that, I the son of Adam has inherited Adams sin, thus i need to be saved. Verse 20 says: "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son" (I am not responsible for father Adams sin nor is he responsible for mine)

[PUP135]

"the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him" (what i do is attributed to me and what wrong my father does is his sin NOT mine, thus Jesus blood isn't responsible for absolving my sins, because my Sins belong to me because i commited them, not Jesus and not Adam)

Gosh it so simple, however your theology that you have built is contradicting this verse that means your theology is not of sound nature because it's contradictory.

[heaventubeko]

@DuckHunts But Jesus is not a Prophet He is a Son a God - Co Equal with God the Father and He is GOD.

[PUP135]

20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 21But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die."

[PUP135]

Craig says salvation can only be recived by beliving Jesus died for sins, well then that clearly contradicts the bible Ezikiel 18:20 which states

[YHWHisElohim]

Here is the problem: Justice and Mercy work in opposition to one another.

According to Webster's Dictionary:

Justice- reward or penalty as deserved; the administration of law

Mercy- refraining from harming offenders; imprisonment rather than death for a capital crime; a disposition to forgive or be kind

Justice is the application of punishment in accordance with the law. Mercy is the withholding of punishment even when it has been earned by the transgressor. One cannot "earn" mercy.

[ammannojacku]

Mercy- refraining from harming offenders; imprisonment rather than death for a capital crime; a disposition to forgive or be kind**** so god of the bible can forgive"refraining from harming" Satan??

Or Satan Needs to EARN GOD's MERCY?

[ammannojacku]

Mercy- refraining from harming offenders; imprisonment rather than death for a capital crime; a disposition to forgive or be kind**** so god of the bible can forgive"refraining from harming" Satan??

Or Satan Needs to EARN GOD's MERCY in order to be forgiven?

either you should EARN his GRACE, or EARN his Wrath, They are NOT free gifts!! the CHOICE is yours

[ammannuTheFIRST]

Mercy- refraining from harming offenders; imprisonment rather than death for a capital crime; a disposition to forgive or be kind**** so god of the bible can forgive"refraining from harming" Satan??

Or Satan Needs to EARN GOD's MERCY in order to be forgiven?

either you should EARN his GRACE, or EARN his Wrath, They are NOT free gifts!! the CHOICE is yours

The Question is where is the GRACE for the GENTILE DOGS in the BIBLE???

[YHWHisElohim]

Mercy cannot be earned. If you earn it, it ceases to be mercy; hence your comments are self-contradictory and rendered meaningless by there nature.

Also, you seem unable to notice that "mercy" and "grace" or 2 different words, and thus 2 different concepts.

Satan?? I'm speaking of YHWH's provision for MORTALS. Satan gets the lake of fire (Revelation).

Allah has no way of applying Mercy without compromises his infinite holy-ness.

Thankfully, the true Creator does.

[YHWHisElohim]

Where is the grace for gentiles in the Bible?

Simple. The same place as the MERCY for them and everyone else:

In our Eternal Passover Lamb and Yom Kippur atonement, Yeshua Ha'Mashiach; who kept the Torah and honored the Covenants of Yah that Muhammad was ignorant of and violated.

[ammannojacku]

YHWHisElohim Allah's Has a GRACE and Wrath

so either you should EARN his GRACE, or EARN his Wrath, They are NOT free gifts!!

[7:157] (My mercy is for) those who follow the messenger, the prophet who can neither read nor write

I strike down with My punishment anyone I will. But My mercy extends over all things. I will ordain My mercy for those who are pious and pay their zakat, and those who believe in Our (revelations and) signs! 7:156

[YHWHisElohim]

That was excellent. Going all the way back to Abraham, Yahuweh has required an atoning sacrifice to cover sin.

God ceases to be God if he "pardons" a sin without judgement.

[xplanetoseax]

and Christ's sacrifice was sufficient.

[almuslimman]

You should read the Holy Quran, Allah does not need for you to have an intercesor, he can just forgive you and you are pardoned. Why do you not believe in the truth of Islam?

[YHWHisElohim]

Thank you, I have read the Quran, and I commune directly with The Almighty. It is the atoning work of God Himself who bore the sins of His people on the cross that allows me to do so.

"..he can just forgive you.."

Based on what? How? I find this to be illogical and unsatisfying. How does God redeem you? How does he receive justice for Himself based on your sins?

Only the work done by God Himself on the cross, allows for God to be 100% just, and 100% merciful at the same time.

[ammannojacku]

Islam teach about the ORIGINAL GRACE[20:122]NOT original sin

All Over the Quran Muslims Male and Female with Jews ,Nazarenes(whom were Israelites) and Others whom believe in Allah then remain steadfast,[2:62][5:69],:are :-

• Blessed By Allah [33:043]

• Saved by Allah grace Qur'an [3:103]

• Have the Divine promise binding to Allah to enter Heavenly Garden of Eden/paradise [9:72]

[YHWHisElohim]

Well...that actually COMPLETELY ignores the issues brought up in the debate and my comments, which address the contradiction and violation of infinite justice.

In the Quran, Allah's grace violates his justice. This is an internal contradiction.