compLexity Cross Counter Post-SBO in Shibuya, Japan

[drankydrank1]

I didnt see one fat person in this whole video

[XxRAINISM]

Some sexy japs. But anyways. Matchups/tiers are like statistics, never right. Everyone will have different opinions.

[HakeroTurkishBoy]

gays

[ayewanrice]

yo... more shots of them GIRLS PLEASE! and good recap vid. def a nice view on the whole scene from japan perspective and how they do things.

[fkylw]

mike has yellow fever…

[GETURHANDSUP916]

America's philosphy on characters has always been pick whoever you like/like(Cammy, Chun Li, Sakura) and work hard. I still think you could still win with a weak character but it would be really hard.

[ZOMBIEGUTSTZA]

@GETURHANDSUP916 I dont think they were talking about that.They were saying that in japan their top chars are much different than ours,I think it is because,in general,Japanese players have more dedication and a better mindset than american players do usually,I think that is heavily influenced by culture in japan.They have "unlocked" characters that american players have chalked up to being bad characters,like T.Hawk,again that is due to their dedication and mindset.

[ZOMBIEGUTSTZA]

@GETURHANDSUP916 Well thats what they were talking about early in the vid,lol my bad

[jRyda559]

It was kazunoko or how ever you spell his name I always fuck it up

[thawulfman]

So who won SBO? I know it was a Yun and Yang team.

[ILL777WILL]

in case no on noticed champs attitude---this is the filipino champ i like non offensive seems cool

[darks0r4]

USA should believe in the tier list they come up with. Let the Japanese be with their Top Tier or whatever.

[GETURHANDSUP916]

@darks0r4 I agree, there is no rule book that says whatever someone from Japan says about tier list is always right. It's all opinion. Japan is just putting more time into the game, making their tier list true.

[KrevaTK]

love the man bag mike

[azman1114]

That's an awesome shirt on Champ, where can I get one?

[UltraTien]

Shout outs to 2dgod Mago @ 7:32

[Seigfreid]

Mike "Eyes up Japanese chicks" Ross.

[ElVaah]

Diggin' Mike's Man-purse.



[pleasedontbIockme]

where there a MvC3 team from the US?

[FranciscoShreds]

@pleasedontbIockme there is no marvel at sbo. it's not an arcade game so they don't play it.

[SkyeKingdoM]

no fat girls in japan?

[CuervoCiber]

I didnt even watch the video. I just put this fucker on 720p just so I can say Mike "720p" Ross.

[mauriceliabc]

I love how cc's starcraft vids average like 500 views per vid, sf gets like couple k views.

[SomethingWong]

F. Champ really is a cool guy, I guess when the sodium levels are too high, it can change a person completely.

[ispsagel50]

@TwitchTVFishStix yeah, the format itself is pretty out dated and even the top Japanese players are not fond of this and prefer the standard double elimination format.

[aznc0ffe388]

dem GIRLS god DAMN

[ItachiisThashit87]

Japan 10-0 match-up against U.S.

[OverKiiiillll]

tier list is false, what? SO ARE THEY SAYING MY GIEF CAN BLOW UP SETH?! i'm headed to the lab right now. (no sarcasm)

[Autonomisc]

The reason is AE sucks if the game was as good as super they would have had a better chance and it would be less tier dependent. There's a reason why AE is getting a free patch cause it's awful.

[aznc0ffe388]

the burgers in japan is IMMACULATE

[martinithechobit]

mike "I HEAR VOICES IN MY HEAD" need to look around.

[KobraKrimson]

Japanese girls = Top Tier

[skizzik830]

j.s.burgers = godlike

[ADEspadas]

Mike Ross was looking around for the girls all the time.

[MrCajunX]

@ADEspadas dude, u have to, those are japanese girls. i mean you have to. lol.

[iclark2400]

@ADEspadas can you really blame him? those Japanese girls were friggin hot!! also, I think Mike digs Japanese girls otherwise he would not be looking around once every few seconds...haha

[graphitesoul]

They should try okonomiyaki ! moscow mule at pronto is super good!

[glennxi]

nice to see more about fchamp.

[darpinian1]

You wanna win? Pick a Top tier, Sanford Kelly has been saying this for years...lol

[DJAntm4n]

@darpinian1 Funny how he rarely wins

[darpinian1]

@DJAntm4n

Are you saying Sanford isn't one of the top players on the East Coast? Seriously? If you only care about wins, please show me the last tourney that Mike Ross has won. Hell F Champ has won quite a few tourneys and he's saying the same thing....Moreover, Santhrax was WINNING tourneys when he was saying that SAME THING. Regardless of what you think of the players you should address the point. "You wanna win, Pick a top tier"

[mabans]

@darpinian1 He's right, and if you wanna continue to win play in small tournaments, I've never seen Santhrax any major outside from that weekly LI tourney that Frame-advantage used to cover. What are you babbling about anyway last year the only real major I saw him at, ECT2010, he chose Sagat, Cammy and I think sakura.. SO much for taking his own advice..

[darpinian1]

@mabans

I don't understand you guys. You don't go to tourneys you couldn't beat any of these guys yet you have the internet courage to bash players doing their best. Regardless of what you believe, or what you watched on a stream, Santhrax is well respected by the people who GO TO TOURNEYS. You may not like the guy and that's fine, but don't doubt his skill. Also keep in mind that he is also a MVC3 player top 32 at EVO only losing to noel brown and PR Rog. Lets agree to let it go k

[mabans]

@darpinian1 I don't hate sanford but i don't think he's opinion is the end all be all to how people should play characters. I wouldn't say anything if I was a stream monster but I'm not. I'm lucky enough to have WnF near my house every week, to where I can make it and I go to local tournies. SO talking out my ass I'm not sir. I'm not saying he sucks, never have and never will. Thing is, I don't live or die by what he says or any top player says. This is coming from my Goofy ass who plays Cody.

[darpinian1]

@mabans

I do apologize for the disrespect in my previous post. But let me make it clear that I wasn't saying Sanford was the 'end all be all' to how people should play. I don't think I even insinuated that...lol. I was referencing /watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk And the fact that 2 years later you have F Champ and Mike Ross saying the same things. Its cool to play the character you want to play, but the fact is, if your character can't compete at the highest level you should reconsider your goals.

[l3ts9o]

@mabans

Santhrax made top 32 both games. Where the fuck were you?

[maskedburritow]

More viper hate? Now she's cheap and for scrubs? People are always whining about the Viper army but who's winning with her? The same handful of people who've been using her since vanilla.

It's interesting that the most vocal detractors of viper players tend to be defensive style players.

[DarthHarbl]

Yo, where can I get that sweet yoga sniper shirt FilipinoChanp has?

[RealRussianStandard]

i liked this because of mike ross..

[gamermasterL]

rule of thumb if u want to win use top tier.

[InfiniteGXT]

Japan: Top Tier or GTFO

[fullmoongamer]

if the general fighting game community weren't a bunch of assholes maybe more people would try harder to get good at the game.

[lflash80]

@fullmoongamer its true the majority of us r assholes. I wonder why though?

[fullmoongamer]

@lflash80 No clue, but it would be nice to know I could get a learning experience from playing with people I dont know, in person, without their being any drama. I can hardly play with people I know without people getting salty or just plain being rude.

[lflash80]

@fullmoongamer i do alot of online gaming and when u have a certain style of play, sum people will see it as cheap and instead of trying to figure out what theyre doing wrong they'll send u messages about how cheap u r. Me on the other hand, i'll go 1-10 in matches but if i could learn something from those matches i wont be that salty.

[ispsagel50]

@fullmoongamer I understand what you mean. The arcade scene after I graduated from my college just died out instantly and sadly it seems to be no transition to help out the new school players (the '09ers) to keep it going. At one point, they did have Mike Ross, Combofiend, Marn, and a few others to come up one time for a team tournament.

[Chaoscaliber]

fchamp looks mad gay

[randomguy3579]

@Chaoscaliber yeah his hands are on his back way too much

[iclark2400]

@Chaoscaliber is he really gay? he seems to act like one but I'm not judging, I got nothing against the gays...lol

[That1sushidude]

jeeze japan is seriously on a whole knew level. Well they always have been.

[derputsch]

what i learned from this video: america doesn't give a fuck about tiers they just play whoever they want

[MMagentaHH]

@derputsch there is probably a reason for that. japan has so many pro players that can gather in an arcade very easily (daily). where as its harder for many pro players in america to gather, say a tournament (monthly??). so in japan they gather so much more info and get way better at the game and way faster then us in america.

its likely they already knew viper was godly in january, america didnt know until latif raped everyone at evo (july?)

[aknon]

@derputsch Truth

[HighOnLife67]

@derputsch And thats the reason why americans lost at sbo

[ExBrutalion]

@derputsch That's why we lose Evo. Our own tournament.

[magocybernetico]

@derputsch America STAY FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[voodoopriestessXY]

they work harder then their fellow americans but are free to japan because america in general is poor in comparison.....WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THIS!?

[TheRealMasamune]

why is the cameraman so damn loud?! goddman, i have headphones on....

[fredguy2]

I haven't watched much cross counter as I should but I really liked this episode.

[StardustRecordz]

mmm some nice bitches walk past..

[DrKrFfXx000000000000]

Zhi at 12:47

[trannypolicefu]

two obnoxious faggots

[SolidNashNYC]

mike ross with his man purse lol. "its a satchel, indiana jones carries one!"

[GanguroKonata]

"No Sagat? America IS the land of gold!"

[lancecryor]

Very interesting interview. Vega beats Honda huh? But everyone says Vega's trash. I never thought of him as an easy match for anyone, I actually hate fighting him. Good stuff here. These two are the man.. er men :)

[djquackquack]

I was quite a shock to hear FChamp say that use westerners don't know anything about the tier lists and that our level isn't even enough to "unlock" some of these characters...

[MuttonSoup88]

@djquackquack it's deep but true....watch some japanese grand master yang and u will find them ridiculous

[tj203]

@djquackquack He's comparing how much the Japanese dedicate themselves to us. In their entire culture they take EVERYTHING they do EXTREMELY seriously. I've heard of up-and-coming top players having to play atleast 5 hours a day, EVERY SINGLE DAY. No breaks at all.

With that kind of dedication AND only focusing on one character, they have mastered their characters and match-ups. And then the Higher Tier user will win, because each put in the same insane dedication and time playing.

[djquackquack]

@tj203

Yeah, I already knew that their average level is way above the west - but I didn't know how far ahead the top players were too. I thought the west was finally gaining some ground...

[Duo11]

@tj203 Problem being you can't even do that in the US even if you wanted to. There's just not enough top players in any one place to support being able to play that much without just hammering out on the same matchup over and over.

[600baller]

@tj203

That's common sense, if you really like something, you spend more time on that. For people like Daigo, gaming is majority part of his life, so at least 5 hours per day common sense. Of course, spending 5 hours on xbox and mashing ultra doesn't help

[lancecryor]

5:14 Mike Ross copping a peek at the Asian chicks lol :)

[SithLordRagnos]

Itabashi: No Sagat? *turns into Russian club guy*

[k1ssinger]

Good video. I think it's obvious that AE was a complete failure from a balance perspective and what makes it worse is that Capcom knew full well that Yun would be vastly OP and that everyone would pick him. They don't seem to have learned any lessons with v.2012 either. Those Akuma nerfs are fucking beyond retarded yet Viper gets virtually no changes? Fucking Capcom.

[ashish612]

A black guy in Japan? Rarity

[jamsed1]

@ashish612 Rare footage of a black man actually in Japan.

[lwst82]

You guys have to understand that SF4 is a terrible game unlike its predecessors like CvS2, 3rd Strike, Marvel vs Capcom 2. If you started in SF4, you have nothing to compare it to. Yeah player skill wins in the end, but no other game rewards character selection alone than SF4.

[SithLordRagnos]

@lwst82: Besides the ones you mentioned like MvC2 and 3rd Strike, you mean? -_-

[lwst82]

@SithLordRagnos A player cannot just pick a top tier character in mvc2 and 3rd strike and expect to win against other competent players. The same cannot be said of SF4. Just yesterday, I was at the arcade watching my friend play Street Fighter 4. He was around the 13 win mark with his Ibuki and I got tired of watching. I picked Fei Long, whom I've played total of 8 times total. I won. How can I win? It's not cause I'm good. It's because the game rewards character selection.

[SithLordRagnos]

@lwst82: I kinda agree with you on MvC2: the game's been through so much in terms of the metagame that it'd be nearly impossible for someone to pick it up these days.

3rd Strike...absolutely not. It's still moderately difficult to pick up Chun-Li, but you could make the exact same argument for Fei Long in this game.

[FlawlessMatador1]

@lwst82 That's a really stupid example.

[lwst82]

@FlawlessMatador1 Another example. When SF4 Vanilla first came out, I played Rufus. There was a Vega player named Tatsu in Socal who was considered the best vega. His team placed first place at a team tournament, he was beating gootecks. I was losing to scrub balrogs around this time and ken players who mash uppercut. The first time I played Tatsu, I raped him for free, because Rufus beats Vega.

[FlawlessMatador1]

@lwst82 I know who Tatsu is. I can't say I believe you. Here is a suggestion, go face Tatsu now as opposed to when the game first came out and see how well you do.

[lwst82]

@FlawlessMatador1 Fact is we all went to play at a house in 2009. He beat my mains Ryu and Chun Li easily and I can't do anything to Balrog. But his Vega stood no chance against Rufus, so much so that he asked me to keep picking the character so he could learn the matchup. Fact is I suck, and the game rewards character selection. A much better player having trouble against a scrub like me because of character selection.

[lwst82]

@FlawlessMatador1 The thing is, I already gave you one example with the ibuki. You said it was a bad example so I gave you another. Now you won't believe me. There's no reason for me to try to convince a random youtuber who doesn't believe something even when two top players mike ross, and filipino champ say it. You can continue living in ignorance. At the highest level, counter matchups are a problem. Champ better pick someone else against Yun, even if they are lower tier than Dhalsim.

[FlawlessMatador1]

@lwst82 No, I agree that some matchups are just plain fucked from the start. BUT, it is not impossible to win in hard matchups with any character. Your examples suck because they seem to be personal experience rather than the larger picture. Your telling me you never lost EVER when a matchup was in your favor?

[JanembaJanemba]

@lwst82 Wise words.

[tj203]

@lwst82 No... Not at all, in terms of 3rd Strike MOV and a few other top Japanese players have already admitted how they wish characters like Chun-Li and Yun weren't in the game. They DID break the game at the top-level competitive play. You can see that just from the SBO results.

[600baller]

@lwst82

Don't act if you know nothing. CvS2? everyone picks Blanka Sagat, & A groove. Marvel2? same Sentinal Storm team.. 3s? fuck that Chun, Ken, Yun bullshit

[lwst82]

@600baller Combofiend was top 3 in America and he used Rock, Rolento, and Cammy. He never had to compromise to pick Sagat and Blanka. He was a top player in marvel 2 and is a top player in marvel 3. He never had to change his team to pick top tier except for one game. SF4. He picks Yun instead of Guy when he has to face a top tier matchup. In the previous games, his player skill could take him further than SF4, a matchup, character dependent game. It's the reason why Dhalsim beats Ryu badly.

[600baller]

@lwst82

You are using a non-top lvl player(cvs2 and 3s) to conclude SF4 is a terrible game..This is not representative,completely shortsighted and narrow minded way of doing things.

In pretty much all games, tier exists and matters a lot. BUT, that doesn't mean tier make games worse. The examples you given, definitely not balance yet they turn out to be good games.

Also bad match-ups do not necessary make the game worse. Look at ST, there bad matches but still considered as good even in 2011.

[Zeronum2]

@lwst82 marvel 3?

[GFBNews]

are they standing on the road?

[Rapture639]

Where exactly did these guys place in SBO? They didn't even talk about that in the vid lol.

6:16 Also, I find it kind of funny how that statement implies that Americans have more "character pride", which is total BS. Example: How many picked up Sagat in Vanilla Street Fighter 4 even if he wasn't their favorite character? And conversely how many people dropped Sagat when Super Street Fighter 4 came out? And how many people switched to yun/yang and are leaving them when version 2012 is out?

[ShinMike]

@Rapture639 they were knocked out in first round. They must be talking about how many Americans switched to twins in AE but didnt invest enough time with the characters to actually place in tournaments, so a lot of them switched back to their old mains (justin wong, marn, etc) and that of course isnt enough to win a in a tournaments where good players are playing the top tiers characters.

[600baller]

@Rapture639

They always get owned in the 1st round since SF4 release lol

I don't see any good Sagat(Japan lvl) since Vanilla in US, except Alioune from France.. The fact is, Americans kids don't pick him not because of "character pride", is that they don't like Sagat the character lol Stupid Americans just love to whine and find excuses

[ShinMike]

Mike "I <3 cowboy girls" Ross.

Filipino "Mike, give me all your attention" Champ.

[XinKotetsu]

Mike "Creeper" Ross

[knowledge561]

Latiff would of dominated though.

[DeadlyDaem]

japans just better than american & everyone else for that matter. i think its quite clear at this point & i ain't even hating.

[600baller]

@DeadlyDaem

Everyone knows this for like several decades... Americans just do not accept and label everyone "Japanese Dickriders" lmao so pathetic

[djquackquack]

@600baller

I agree 200%.

[FPSForcefulEntry]

Mike "Man Purse" Ross

[ispsagel50]

Pretty interesting views by Mike and Ryan. Even though people may talk about boycotting SBO after the Banana Ken & Hsien controversy, I still think this event is important for the foreign players to experience the community here and learn that things that haven't been discovered from the other Japanese players. 

[nToonCone]

@600baller "It's not even about tier lol"

Yet a Yun player won at SBO. Fucking idiot.

[600baller]

@nToonCone

Its your fault not picking Yun, stupid Americans lmao

[sniperclown]

WTF 72MB internet and thats standard in japan o.O

[DudeINeedSleep]

@sniperclown Yes it is. America is behind when it comes to internet access. It is also partly because of the geography. Japan is much smaller than USA, so less area to cover for the network.

[alwaystangin]

fchamp seems to be really down to earth... not like he is portrayed in many other videos being an ass. props to him!

[NeoUnknown]

@alwaystangin I think he got his act together realizing that now that he's on a team that had to be professional he has to help when possible in the best way to bring a good image to Complexity. Definitely props to him though for changing across the times.

[TheMAMBA116]

@alwaystangin Ya Champ used to be cocky and always talkin trash. He still has that side of him but now that he's with cross counter he is more professional.

[ssj2jeff]

@alwaystangin I'm guessing SBO was a humbling experience for fchamp.

[PedroCtsUrCookies]

@alwaystangin You shouldnt judge someone because of media outlets, unless you have met the dude ,people really have no reason to talk shitake mushrooms

[Comeback64]

@alwaystangin He's pretty chill. He just lets the hype and excitement get to him and he goes overboard; he hasn't took a swing at anybody so I've been okay with it.

[flasheyecon]

@alwaystangin its because he got bodied, wasnt in right state of mind

[jpedder]

@alwaystangin anyone that knows him.. knows this. he just loves shit talk lol

[avok23]

@alwaystangin Just licking his wounds

[StreetTrooper]

00:13 - 14:25 Girls

[Anfmethodjor]

6:15 I like what he says here, Japanese players don't care about character pride.

A lot of gamers in America say that Japanese players were about character loyalty and learning the match-ups, now it looks like they are more like Americans players, just picking as it fits.

8:10 Say hi to the ladies!

[2MinuteSoup]

mike ross has a gf? who?

[bigpowa]

No johns yo..

[kupowns]

Players made Viper top tier along the years, how many Viper players are winning tournaments?

[gamer2180]

I think they are just salty :l

[nightshade06]

damn. there are some fine ass girls in the background

[eltwopee]

I asked some good questions

[quicksaund]

People get way too hung-up on Match-ups. Yes, you'll do better in a match if you know the match-up, but it's really about the player. There are no match-ups set in stone.

Match-ups were invented by salty players. "You were playing a better character than me." Play Yun, Fei or Yang ... or stick with your Sakura, Dan and stop bitchin'!

I'm not really bitching about Mike/Champ, I'm just sick of hearing about tiers and match-ups.

[nemoooed]

@quicksaund sad thing is that these things you hate do exist and will continue to do so in the future.

[masterscheme1]

@quicksaund So tiers don't exist?

[AxleIsBored]

@quicksaund dude, its a big fucking deal when the game is this unbalanced and people are this good.

[gundamboi]

@quicksaund You may be sick of hearing about tiers and match-ups but they will exist especially in SSF4 AE. This is what Fchamp is trying to say, If u hate hearing tiers and match-ups and stick to one character, well then be prepared to lose to those bad match-ups. Salty players weren't the only players that invented bad match-ups, its the people that know the potential of certain character and abuse their abilities to win. AIM to win so pick the best character and put time into it.

[quicksaund]

@gundamboi LOL why did my first comment get removed? It was hardly offensive :/

I get what your saying, man. I however, just play for fun. Anyway, when everyone is playing Yun, it's boring as hell to watch. It's better that these guys played different characters and lost, than if they had play yun/fei/yang and got a little bit further.

[R0bNBanks]

Wait.. F.Champ and Mike Ross praising Japan and saying how we're so behind? Wonder how long it's going to take people to say "weaboos" and "stop dickriding Japan"

..or are they going to be an exception because they're known mid-level players?

[FooledToaster]

What is Mike looking around for?

[awwnuts07]

This info is eye-opening.

[Koganei85]

@awwnuts07 and mind boggling.... Blanka best character in the game? In America people are keeling over and dying right now while Blanka players are in shock and awe

[Koganei85]

@awwnuts07 and mind boggling.... Blanka best character in the game? In America people are keeling over and dying right now while Blanka players are in shock and awe

[BUDDAz1g]

america land of th FREE

[souther]

10:22 Mike's ADD is kickin

[zero109]

@souther More like at 7:00

[flopdos]

are you guys standing in the middle of the road

[AlienGaming64]

great video

[AlienGaming64]

great video

[AlienGaming64]

great video

[AlienGaming64]

third 

[pspgosucks]

First

[oMugenx]

Mike Ross: Look at alll the fine Asain women. Oh wait, I have a girlfriend.. damn.

[600baller]

@oMugenx

He looks like he hasn't seen women before lmao