I have another explanation for the universes' existence besides it being for more room for us.
It is a reflection of God Himself, just as the Universe is infinite so is God Himself.
That there is a spiritual significance to everything in the physical realm. I really believe there is no end to the physical Universe as well as all the planets and stars but interestingly enough God will have this infinite Universe destroyed to make way for the new Heavens. And God can do that cause Hemadeit
Is this a spoof on a holy roller or is this guy really this screwed up? Looks like he spent too many weeks at jesus camp as a child. They must have washed his brain with a wire brush and comet. Another one past the point of no return........
Now I don't mean to be rude, but come on. In the first minute of your video you showed a complete lack of understanding of Christianity and the bible. You stated the "holy spirit" is working in heaven. There is no mention of the holy spirit working in heaven in the bible. In fact the bible clearly states that the holy spirit works through Jesus' church on Earth.
"...and the Spirit of God was moving gently on the face of the waters..."
Obviously the Holy Spirit effects mankind on earth but in the context of my presentation I am concentrating on the mechanics involved at the matrix between Spirit and man. This is a philosophy of physics video i.e. an exploration of the mechanics involved.
"I don't think you can make this clear assertion that the bible says the earth is flat, it's not there in the bible anywhere."
(Job 38:12-13) Take a ball and show me where the egdes are. (Daniel 4:10-11) tree at the center of the earth that can be seen from all the ends of the world. Now, all that would be impossible on a sphere.
I'm sure you have "explanations" for these, but when you take bible literally, the earth is certainly flat.
Yes I have explanations. Daniel is speaking in a vision context, therefor metaphorical and dream like images, not to mention figures of speech. The tree represents a person of importance. when the bible is using historical narrative I take it literally, when it's being poetic I take it poetically etc.
6:10 god plans for man to live forever, creates a large universe to accommodate. You say "in case we didn't fall" So you are saying that god doesn't know the future, right?
if the biblical god actually exists, it should conform to its omniscient attributes...meaning that god didn't need a large universe to begin with, if it knew that mankind was going to fall. If you're saying that god doesn't really know the future, this may actually conflict with biblical scripture. So if a large universe was created to accommodate an undying mankind, but god knew that we would fall....why was the large universe created at all?
Good observation. I believe that we would have been using the space by now if there weren't a fall, however I believe that we will be using the space in the future restoration. So it was intended for use one way or the other.
One question about these "science in the bible" talks puzzles me. That is: so what? There's something factual in bible, so what? Does that mean everything in the bible is true? Bible talks about "Jerusalem", there is a real place called "Jerusalem. Does that indicate that whole bible is true?
Well, in Spiderman comics, Spiderman lives in New York, which is a real place. Does that mean Spiderman is true...?
The point is that the knowledge of scientific facts before they became known to man shows that the author of the bible has special source of knowledge, supernatural.
I don't think you can make this clear assertion that the bible says the earth is flat, it's not there in the bible anywhere. As per sun revolving the earth, this you are getting from the language of sunrise and sunset, we use this language today from our perspective, if the subject is observing from an extraterrestrial vantage point the language will be different, as in Isaiah 40:22
I think you are familiar with "Joshua's long day" (Joshua 10). God commands the moon AND the sun to stay still. Now, this would only make day longer in a heliocentric world. If bible writers had some supernatural help, why didn't it tell them "psst, make sure you write that I stopped the earth and not the sun". But that's not the first time that hebrew god has been deceiving.
Once again you are forcing a extraterrestrial vantage point into the text, as far as Joshua was concerned the sun kept it's position in the sky. as per Einstein If I'm on a train and throw an object straight up, it will come straight down, for the person on the ground the object will take a parabolic path, for someone at a stationary point above the earth the stone will fly away in a large spiral pattern near the speed of over 600 km/s with the local group of galaxies; so which is it?
I'm not forcing any points. IF the bible says that God stopped the sun then God stopped the sun. That's it. You are the one twisting to words to support your view.
Movement really is relative. And sun really seems to revolve the earth and that is what ancient hebrews also thought. And that is what they wrote to the bible, without ANY supernatural guidance.
When the subject is on the face of the earth we find the sunrise and sunset language, when a passage is from God's reference point we will find things like the earth casting a circular silhouette, and the earth suspended in space without any visible means of support.
I wonder what the "God's reference point" is. I thought he was everywhere.
Ancient hebrews didn't know what was behind the sky (they thought it was a solid, firmament), so it was natural to place God in there. Too bad he had to move as soon as we got to take a look there.
Ancient fairytales are not very solid ground for scientific evidence. Why can't we just examine world as it is.
We can examine the world as it is, the question is how do we interpret our observations? The history of science has been to make approximations and to refine as more information comes in. As we dig deeper inward and peer deeper outward we come across the need for explanations beyond material and energy in 4 dimensions. It's here where the biblical model comes into play. It's a biblical idea that there are other worlds out there and it's becoming an accepted view as exploration proceeds.
"As we dig deeper inward and peer deeper outward we come across the need for explanations beyond material and energy in 4 dimensions. It's here where the biblical model comes into play."
So, when we come across complex structures and yet unexplain things, best way to deal with it is "hey, this proves bible is true because it's obvious that God did it".
No. The rational reaction is to try (in scientific means) possible solutions for such phenomenon.
Are you accusing me of the-God-of-the-gaps apologetic. It wont stick. Before you can have "scientific means" you need a universe to supply the phenomenon you want to model. I'm all for discovering how God did it, I call this science. The God hypothesis is based on 1) historical record of prophecy in bible.
2) deduction from known phenomenon e.g. wave functions in Hilbert space reveal extra dimensional realities, quantum feedback loops, by nature these things are converging on definition of God.
And I can even somehow understand "God of the gaps" argument, but what I don't understand that someone could actually belive that some supernatural entity, to some unknown reason, decided to utter some words and mold the whole universe 6000 years ago. That's totally absurd.
And how does "biblical model" come into play when we examine e.g. new galaxies or quarks. It's totally outdated old book containing myths. Nothing more. It has the same scientific value as Alice in Wonderland.
Yes I was right, God-of-the-gaps. Actually if you can get to the next two videos in this series, I cover these arguments. There are anthropic ends to the reasons of creation. The galaxies and quarks are all instant by way of anti-De Sitter space.
"criticize ... man and earth made from same elements?"
Fair enough..
(i didn't find the passage you refer to in prt 1 or 2 can you point me to it?).
If you meant this:
'man made of elements found on earth' sounds like a prediction that could also be made by naturalistic evolution, how is your prediction different?
(If man was made from other stuff then found on earth, to me that would be more indicative of devine creation then if man IS made of stuff found here), is that what you meant?
Hi Martin, the specific reference to "man made of the earth" is Genesis 2:7. The point has to do with the fact that the information is scientifically correct. That is scientist have found that man is made of the same elements as those in the earth. But this was not known until the 1700's when elements were first isolated and identified. As far as where the stuff came from, in a sense, all matter is not from here. Matter is made of energy waves and these must come from an infinite source.
"Matter is made of energy waves and these must come from an infinite source".
Based on what evidence MUST that come from an infinite source, enlighten me ;)
Furthermore i disagree with "man is made of the same elements as those in the earth.".
The earth itself is made mainly made of inorganic material, not the type of matter we are made off (organic). "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground"
I was trying to communicate that the infinities found in solutions to things like the mass of the electron are there because the ultimate source of the electron is infinite, that's part of the evidence.
The human body consists of oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium and phosphorus plus trace amounts of other elements. These same elements are found in the earth's crust. The word "dust" comes form the Hebrew "ephar" which means dust, earth, dirt, mud etc.
I don't think i quite share your view of reality. "Vacuum fluctuations" are the spontanious appearene and disappearance of particules in a vacuum, there's nothing infinite about matter.
As for the elements, they are the elements the whole universe is made off, there's nothing special about earth apart that WE call this planet our home, but statistically there should be millions of planets like earth, arguably, maybe even an infinite number of planets just like ours.
I have another explanation for the universes' existence besides it being for more room for us.
It is a reflection of God Himself, just as the Universe is infinite so is God Himself.
That there is a spiritual significance to everything in the physical realm. I really believe there is no end to the physical Universe as well as all the planets and stars but interestingly enough God will have this infinite Universe destroyed to make way for the new Heavens. And God can do that cause Hemadeit
Uaz31 2 years ago
provide subtitle... i dont really know what you are saying
lolcatpictarz 2 years ago
Is this a spoof on a holy roller or is this guy really this screwed up? Looks like he spent too many weeks at jesus camp as a child. They must have washed his brain with a wire brush and comet. Another one past the point of no return........
roblaw6767 2 years ago
don't forget about gods infinitely large penis
StandardAI 3 years ago
Now I don't mean to be rude, but come on. In the first minute of your video you showed a complete lack of understanding of Christianity and the bible. You stated the "holy spirit" is working in heaven. There is no mention of the holy spirit working in heaven in the bible. In fact the bible clearly states that the holy spirit works through Jesus' church on Earth.
JohnDCrawford 3 years ago
I've based my comments on the text in Genesis 1:2
"...and the Spirit of God was moving gently on the face of the waters..."
Obviously the Holy Spirit effects mankind on earth but in the context of my presentation I am concentrating on the mechanics involved at the matrix between Spirit and man. This is a philosophy of physics video i.e. an exploration of the mechanics involved.
seanmPWH 3 years ago
The people who brainwashed you did a really good job.
Dorfkanal 3 years ago 3
Dude, this is not helpful, can't you criticize any specific content in the video?
seanmPWH 3 years ago
Seek mental help.
illuzion30 3 years ago
Seek substantive posts.
seanmPWH 3 years ago
i think this kid might be slightly handicapped. None of that made sense.
Tradd9 3 years ago
"This Kid" is this a self reference, because you are unable to follow along?
seanmPWH 3 years ago
Nope, I am unable to follow because you do a very poor job of communicating your point(s) of view to the general public.
Tradd9 3 years ago
OK this I can accept, I use too many technical terms for the general public. Can you be more specific? Where did I loose you?
seanmPWH 3 years ago
"I don't think you can make this clear assertion that the bible says the earth is flat, it's not there in the bible anywhere."
(Job 38:12-13) Take a ball and show me where the egdes are. (Daniel 4:10-11) tree at the center of the earth that can be seen from all the ends of the world. Now, all that would be impossible on a sphere.
I'm sure you have "explanations" for these, but when you take bible literally, the earth is certainly flat.
StandForScience 3 years ago
Yes I have explanations. Daniel is speaking in a vision context, therefor metaphorical and dream like images, not to mention figures of speech. The tree represents a person of importance. when the bible is using historical narrative I take it literally, when it's being poetic I take it poetically etc.
seanmPWH 3 years ago
an omniscient god wouldn't be doing any guessing, would it?
istheretruth 3 years ago
I don't follow, please explain.
seanmPWH 3 years ago
you paint a picture of a god who doesn't know all, but the bible clearly states that he does!!
istheretruth 3 years ago
Can you be specific about where this lack of knowledge on god's part comes into my presentation?
seanmPWH 3 years ago
6:10 god plans for man to live forever, creates a large universe to accommodate. You say "in case we didn't fall" So you are saying that god doesn't know the future, right?
istheretruth 3 years ago
if the biblical god actually exists, it should conform to its omniscient attributes...meaning that god didn't need a large universe to begin with, if it knew that mankind was going to fall. If you're saying that god doesn't really know the future, this may actually conflict with biblical scripture. So if a large universe was created to accommodate an undying mankind, but god knew that we would fall....why was the large universe created at all?
istheretruth 3 years ago
Good observation. I believe that we would have been using the space by now if there weren't a fall, however I believe that we will be using the space in the future restoration. So it was intended for use one way or the other.
seanmPWH 3 years ago
One question about these "science in the bible" talks puzzles me. That is: so what? There's something factual in bible, so what? Does that mean everything in the bible is true? Bible talks about "Jerusalem", there is a real place called "Jerusalem. Does that indicate that whole bible is true?
Well, in Spiderman comics, Spiderman lives in New York, which is a real place. Does that mean Spiderman is true...?
StandForScience 3 years ago
The point is that the knowledge of scientific facts before they became known to man shows that the author of the bible has special source of knowledge, supernatural.
seanmPWH 3 years ago
Then why is it that bible clearly indicates that earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth.
Was the special source lying or stupid?
StandForScience 3 years ago
I don't think you can make this clear assertion that the bible says the earth is flat, it's not there in the bible anywhere. As per sun revolving the earth, this you are getting from the language of sunrise and sunset, we use this language today from our perspective, if the subject is observing from an extraterrestrial vantage point the language will be different, as in Isaiah 40:22
seanmPWH 3 years ago
"sunrise and sunset"
I think you are familiar with "Joshua's long day" (Joshua 10). God commands the moon AND the sun to stay still. Now, this would only make day longer in a heliocentric world. If bible writers had some supernatural help, why didn't it tell them "psst, make sure you write that I stopped the earth and not the sun". But that's not the first time that hebrew god has been deceiving.
StandForScience 3 years ago
Once again you are forcing a extraterrestrial vantage point into the text, as far as Joshua was concerned the sun kept it's position in the sky. as per Einstein If I'm on a train and throw an object straight up, it will come straight down, for the person on the ground the object will take a parabolic path, for someone at a stationary point above the earth the stone will fly away in a large spiral pattern near the speed of over 600 km/s with the local group of galaxies; so which is it?
seanmPWH 3 years ago
I'm not forcing any points. IF the bible says that God stopped the sun then God stopped the sun. That's it. You are the one twisting to words to support your view.
Movement really is relative. And sun really seems to revolve the earth and that is what ancient hebrews also thought. And that is what they wrote to the bible, without ANY supernatural guidance.
StandForScience 3 years ago
When the subject is on the face of the earth we find the sunrise and sunset language, when a passage is from God's reference point we will find things like the earth casting a circular silhouette, and the earth suspended in space without any visible means of support.
seanmPWH 3 years ago
I wonder what the "God's reference point" is. I thought he was everywhere.
Ancient hebrews didn't know what was behind the sky (they thought it was a solid, firmament), so it was natural to place God in there. Too bad he had to move as soon as we got to take a look there.
Ancient fairytales are not very solid ground for scientific evidence. Why can't we just examine world as it is.
StandForScience 3 years ago
We can examine the world as it is, the question is how do we interpret our observations? The history of science has been to make approximations and to refine as more information comes in. As we dig deeper inward and peer deeper outward we come across the need for explanations beyond material and energy in 4 dimensions. It's here where the biblical model comes into play. It's a biblical idea that there are other worlds out there and it's becoming an accepted view as exploration proceeds.
seanmPWH 3 years ago
"As we dig deeper inward and peer deeper outward we come across the need for explanations beyond material and energy in 4 dimensions. It's here where the biblical model comes into play."
So, when we come across complex structures and yet unexplain things, best way to deal with it is "hey, this proves bible is true because it's obvious that God did it".
No. The rational reaction is to try (in scientific means) possible solutions for such phenomenon.
StandForScience 3 years ago
Are you accusing me of the-God-of-the-gaps apologetic. It wont stick. Before you can have "scientific means" you need a universe to supply the phenomenon you want to model. I'm all for discovering how God did it, I call this science. The God hypothesis is based on 1) historical record of prophecy in bible.
2) deduction from known phenomenon e.g. wave functions in Hilbert space reveal extra dimensional realities, quantum feedback loops, by nature these things are converging on definition of God.
seanmPWH 3 years ago
And I can even somehow understand "God of the gaps" argument, but what I don't understand that someone could actually belive that some supernatural entity, to some unknown reason, decided to utter some words and mold the whole universe 6000 years ago. That's totally absurd.
And how does "biblical model" come into play when we examine e.g. new galaxies or quarks. It's totally outdated old book containing myths. Nothing more. It has the same scientific value as Alice in Wonderland.
StandForScience 3 years ago
Yes I was right, God-of-the-gaps. Actually if you can get to the next two videos in this series, I cover these arguments. There are anthropic ends to the reasons of creation. The galaxies and quarks are all instant by way of anti-De Sitter space.
seanmPWH 3 years ago
Hi Sean;
"criticize ... man and earth made from same elements?"
Fair enough..
(i didn't find the passage you refer to in prt 1 or 2 can you point me to it?).
If you meant this:
'man made of elements found on earth' sounds like a prediction that could also be made by naturalistic evolution, how is your prediction different?
(If man was made from other stuff then found on earth, to me that would be more indicative of devine creation then if man IS made of stuff found here), is that what you meant?
mindwis3 3 years ago
Hi Martin, the specific reference to "man made of the earth" is Genesis 2:7. The point has to do with the fact that the information is scientifically correct. That is scientist have found that man is made of the same elements as those in the earth. But this was not known until the 1700's when elements were first isolated and identified. As far as where the stuff came from, in a sense, all matter is not from here. Matter is made of energy waves and these must come from an infinite source.
seanmPWH 3 years ago
Sean, thanks for your reply,
I disagree though,
"Matter is made of energy waves and these must come from an infinite source".
Based on what evidence MUST that come from an infinite source, enlighten me ;)
Furthermore i disagree with "man is made of the same elements as those in the earth.".
The earth itself is made mainly made of inorganic material, not the type of matter we are made off (organic). "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground"
no, sorry, we are not made from dust.
mindwis3 3 years ago
I was trying to communicate that the infinities found in solutions to things like the mass of the electron are there because the ultimate source of the electron is infinite, that's part of the evidence.
The human body consists of oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium and phosphorus plus trace amounts of other elements. These same elements are found in the earth's crust. The word "dust" comes form the Hebrew "ephar" which means dust, earth, dirt, mud etc.
seanmPWH 3 years ago
Sean,
I don't think i quite share your view of reality. "Vacuum fluctuations" are the spontanious appearene and disappearance of particules in a vacuum, there's nothing infinite about matter.
As for the elements, they are the elements the whole universe is made off, there's nothing special about earth apart that WE call this planet our home, but statistically there should be millions of planets like earth, arguably, maybe even an infinite number of planets just like ours.
mindwis3 3 years ago
Actually a leading theory suggests that it was indeed a "vacuum fluctuation" that kicked off the entire universe.
Yes you're correct, the elements are universal, however this was not known "scientifically" until recent centuries.
seanmPWH 3 years ago
"Actually a leading..."
Hi Sean, fair enough.
I can hardly blame you for seeing more significance then i do ;)
I do appreciate you have a 'post at will' policy, quite refreshing :)
I enjoy(ed) discussing with you,
Take care and perhaps read you later.
mindwis3 3 years ago