True enemy is really war itself, that is why the USA and the old USSR could never directly attack one another. Some even say that real peace can only be achieved in a nuclear world. When everyone has the potential to destroy one another in a blink of an eye or with the press of a button, suddenly no one wants to fuck with each other. USA and China for example will never go to war, not directly at least.
@kanguesso Nuclear deterrence only works on the assumption that the parties involved are actually concerned for the well-being of their "own" population, and in "this" world. It's not difficult to think of examples of the most sadistic regimes that easily defy this - you need only look as far as North Korea to find a state that is all too comfortable with its people in abject suffering, or Islamic terrorists, who are more than willing to kill fellow muslims even, given a belief in an afterlife.
@Naoumish Valid point but where does that leave the US being that it is still the only nation in the history of Mankind to have used not only one but 2 atomic Bombs on a city full of Civilians? Oh but then again they were Japanese Civilians so that does not count. That does not really qualify the US as a terrorist nation.
@lokoyizone I don't think it does. Clausewitz would have never said that the soldier most likely to win is the one who would part with the politicians. That's in direct violation of Clausewitz's idea of the trinity.
Second part of it "in a nuclear world, the true enemy can't be destroyed" which he argues the true enemy is war. "In a nuclear world, war itself can't be destroyed". It makes no fucking sense. Most people just like how he says it and don't care to think about what he actually said.
I think what he was trying to say was that war hurts everybody who partakes in it. And that the best way of fighting the war (which is our enemy) is by actually living in peace.
@lokoyizone Yea, but the problem with that is that living in peace isn't actually fighting a war.
I'm not saying living in peace isn't a good thing, but he literally tries to define war as it's opposite. It'd be like me saying "light is darkness" or "good is evil" or "pleasure is pain". Light, good, and pleasure might be better than darkness, evil, and pain, but they are not defined as such. If you're living in peace, it's not fighting a war.
@cowfordflorida1 I agree, that is in direct violation of his trinity Furthermore to your Clausewitz would be disgusted by notion that "War is the destruction of your enemy" In his works, or at least from what i've read, he seems to state that the object of war is to bend the enemy to your will, not to destroy him In fact, he seems to notion that warring in the attempt of total destruction of your enemy is total war Then again, i'm 15, so I can't really claim to be an expert on Clausewitz or war.
It actually happened during the Cuba Missile Crisis. A Russian submarine trying to break the American Navy blockade on Cuba was trapped by the American Navy who were trying to force it to the surface with depth charges.
The captain of the submarine thinking he was under attack ordered his men to fire a nuclear torpedo at an American aircraft carrier. All the officers on board concurred but the action was stopped by the 2nd in command.
Interesting discussion, particularly the bit about who is the enemy. Clausewitz's natural enemy was France but Vom Kriege doesn't specify what or who one's enemy (Feind, Gegner) actually is.
this film not being realistic is irrelevant, it's entertainment, to me it's a great film about leadership, different sides of an argument, and great acting. Troll all you want, it's just interesting fiction, calm down submarine boy.
To Willy: I served on Submarines. I know this movie is total BS. I have actually walked on the decks of the REAL USS Alabama. If you ask any Submariner and they will all tall you how crappy this movie is.
@trollman591 Then why are you even here? You expect a submarine movie that have torpedoes blasted the hell out of each other? Submarine movies are not about combats and actions, it's about experiences and chain of commands. You dare say that anyone who think this is a good movie is the real enemy? Well, to them, YOU are the real enemy. It's THEIR opinions, you have yours, but if it's negative comments, just shut it up and get out.
@Willy2537 I have actually served in the United States Naval Submarine Fleet. Have you? I speak from the experience of actually being there and knowing about Submarines and their mission. Ask anyone who has served on Submarines and they will ALL tell you how crappy this movie is. How totally unrealistic it is.
@trollman591 Then it's your opinion, yeah. But you weren't the only person in the world. There's people who liked this movie. I liked it not because it's realistic, but I liked the plot, what would happen when you're seconds away from a global nuclear war and yet you still fight among your own comrades to discuss about uncertain situation that could lead to the whole nation's doom? That's why I like it. If you don't like, it's your problem. But don't call who like your enemy, it's offensive.
@trollman591 I'm sorry if my comments offended you. I just can't stand it when people who don't like something come to the videos of what they don't like and type negatively comments on it. I mean, if you don't like, why are you here in the first place? That's what I first thought when I saw your comment.
This dialogue actually misrepresents the philosophical implications of the original text why do Hollywood films have to change things better left alone?
@turockandar Keyword: HOLLYWOOD. For example, in WE WERE SOLDIERS. The charge at the end never happened and Hal Moore told the director that whilst filming. The director told him, "We're filming a movie, this isn't the History Channel."
The gold standard of submarine movies is of course Das Boot. But running a very close second is Crimson Tide, due in no small measure to the actors playing the protagonist/antagonist roles. Two of my all time favorite actors for sure!
@notabadguy06 absolutely not. if that were true, he wouldn't have even selected him as his XO. Hes just a hard ass who is used to getting his way 100% of the time.
Favorite scene from the movie. With that great line ( that everyone should keep in mind ) : "war is a continuation of politics by other means". Very, very important line.
hackman is so perfect in this scene.
DaBadLieutenant 1 week ago
Why does it sound like this scene could easily be a conversation between Romney/Gingrich vs. Obama regarding Iran?
In a nuclear world, the true enemy, which cannot be destroyed, is indeed war itself...
jbohnoff 2 weeks ago
The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the bloods of patriots and tyrants. - Thomas Jefferson.
Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious
- Oscar Wilde
dre857 1 month ago
we have seen the enemy and he is us. and he is ugly.
rufia75 1 month ago
Westergard and Zimmer are on NCIS now.
teufelkim 1 month ago
War is the enemy... once it starts rolling, it feeds on itself and is sometimes impossible to stop...
genemaguire 1 month ago
1:48 - Some Bitch XDDDDDDDD
TheNightCrasher 1 month ago
OUTSTANDING AND POWERFUL..........
notabadguy06 2 months ago
True enemy is really war itself, that is why the USA and the old USSR could never directly attack one another. Some even say that real peace can only be achieved in a nuclear world. When everyone has the potential to destroy one another in a blink of an eye or with the press of a button, suddenly no one wants to fuck with each other. USA and China for example will never go to war, not directly at least.
kanguesso 3 months ago
@kanguesso
That is very true. And the biggest enemy of all is a nuclear war. A kind of war where there is no winner and every one is a loser.
lokoyizone 3 months ago
@lokoyizone The world was so much simpler during the Cold War, eh?
patriotofliberty1776 3 weeks ago
@kanguesso Nuclear deterrence only works on the assumption that the parties involved are actually concerned for the well-being of their "own" population, and in "this" world. It's not difficult to think of examples of the most sadistic regimes that easily defy this - you need only look as far as North Korea to find a state that is all too comfortable with its people in abject suffering, or Islamic terrorists, who are more than willing to kill fellow muslims even, given a belief in an afterlife.
Naoumish 1 week ago
@Naoumish Valid point but where does that leave the US being that it is still the only nation in the history of Mankind to have used not only one but 2 atomic Bombs on a city full of Civilians? Oh but then again they were Japanese Civilians so that does not count. That does not really qualify the US as a terrorist nation.
kanguesso 1 week ago
denzel didn't really do anything but play semantics on clausewitz
cowfordflorida1 4 months ago
@cowfordflorida1 But what he says actually made sense,doesn't it?
lokoyizone 3 months ago
@lokoyizone I don't think it does. Clausewitz would have never said that the soldier most likely to win is the one who would part with the politicians. That's in direct violation of Clausewitz's idea of the trinity.
Second part of it "in a nuclear world, the true enemy can't be destroyed" which he argues the true enemy is war. "In a nuclear world, war itself can't be destroyed". It makes no fucking sense. Most people just like how he says it and don't care to think about what he actually said.
cowfordflorida1 3 months ago
@cowfordflorida1
I think what he was trying to say was that war hurts everybody who partakes in it. And that the best way of fighting the war (which is our enemy) is by actually living in peace.
lokoyizone 3 months ago
@lokoyizone Yea, but the problem with that is that living in peace isn't actually fighting a war.
I'm not saying living in peace isn't a good thing, but he literally tries to define war as it's opposite. It'd be like me saying "light is darkness" or "good is evil" or "pleasure is pain". Light, good, and pleasure might be better than darkness, evil, and pain, but they are not defined as such. If you're living in peace, it's not fighting a war.
cowfordflorida1 3 months ago
@cowfordflorida1 I agree, that is in direct violation of his trinity Furthermore to your Clausewitz would be disgusted by notion that "War is the destruction of your enemy" In his works, or at least from what i've read, he seems to state that the object of war is to bend the enemy to your will, not to destroy him In fact, he seems to notion that warring in the attempt of total destruction of your enemy is total war Then again, i'm 15, so I can't really claim to be an expert on Clausewitz or war.
TomSarsfield 2 months ago
@TomSarsfield at least you've apparently read it and grasped the basics, unlike whoever wrote the script for this movie
cowfordflorida1 2 months ago
This is the best scene in the entire movie. Denzel humbly and gracefully owned this arrogant fool Gene. Of course in the movie.
Mschocolalicious 5 months ago
The sailor to win the war is actually the one that drops the biggest fuckin bomb the fastest
Hightower187 5 months ago
@Hightower187 sailors don't drop bombs
ValkyrieDude7070 3 months ago
@ValkyrieDude7070
I think sailors actually do drop bombs.
lokoyizone 3 months ago
do they really teach them Philosophy at the Naval Academy?...
brut2011 5 months ago
@brut2011 Sort of...they have courses in Moral Reasoning, Leadership Theory and Application, also Leadership and Human Behavior.
victorrain 4 months ago
@brut2011
Yes, they teach them the Philosophy of War,and everything else. If I am not mistaken.
lokoyizone 3 months ago
absolutely the best scene form the movie.
pieroog 5 months ago
if you stop and think for a second this scene is really deep
LTDANMAN44 6 months ago 10
@LTDANMAN44 not sure if pun..
bearley09 5 months ago
@bearley09 no pun intended
LTDANMAN44 5 months ago
BOOOOOM, Fuckin brilliant!
Drunkenher0 7 months ago 2
But this film was actually inspired by a true event which happened on a Russian submarine in the 1960's.
lokoyizone 7 months ago 9
@lokoyizone what event was it?
wedgy4life 3 months ago
@wedgy4life
It actually happened during the Cuba Missile Crisis. A Russian submarine trying to break the American Navy blockade on Cuba was trapped by the American Navy who were trying to force it to the surface with depth charges.
The captain of the submarine thinking he was under attack ordered his men to fire a nuclear torpedo at an American aircraft carrier. All the officers on board concurred but the action was stopped by the 2nd in command.
So the story goes.
lokoyizone 3 months ago
drop that fucker...twice! lol
raikkonen85 7 months ago 2
Interesting discussion, particularly the bit about who is the enemy. Clausewitz's natural enemy was France but Vom Kriege doesn't specify what or who one's enemy (Feind, Gegner) actually is.
HelloDaves 7 months ago
this film not being realistic is irrelevant, it's entertainment, to me it's a great film about leadership, different sides of an argument, and great acting. Troll all you want, it's just interesting fiction, calm down submarine boy.
jameseyk1 9 months ago
No wonder is the best scene from the movie. Writen by Robert Towne himself, great dialouge. Contributed by a fantastic score too.
Ridley44Lev 9 months ago
To Willy: I served on Submarines. I know this movie is total BS. I have actually walked on the decks of the REAL USS Alabama. If you ask any Submariner and they will all tall you how crappy this movie is.
trollman591 9 months ago
Who is the real enemy? Anyone that thinks this is a good movie. The worst Submarine Movie EVER!!!!!!!!
trollman591 10 months ago
@trollman591 Then why are you even here? You expect a submarine movie that have torpedoes blasted the hell out of each other? Submarine movies are not about combats and actions, it's about experiences and chain of commands. You dare say that anyone who think this is a good movie is the real enemy? Well, to them, YOU are the real enemy. It's THEIR opinions, you have yours, but if it's negative comments, just shut it up and get out.
Willy2537 9 months ago
@Willy2537 I have actually served in the United States Naval Submarine Fleet. Have you? I speak from the experience of actually being there and knowing about Submarines and their mission. Ask anyone who has served on Submarines and they will ALL tell you how crappy this movie is. How totally unrealistic it is.
trollman591 9 months ago
@trollman591 Then it's your opinion, yeah. But you weren't the only person in the world. There's people who liked this movie. I liked it not because it's realistic, but I liked the plot, what would happen when you're seconds away from a global nuclear war and yet you still fight among your own comrades to discuss about uncertain situation that could lead to the whole nation's doom? That's why I like it. If you don't like, it's your problem. But don't call who like your enemy, it's offensive.
Willy2537 9 months ago
@trollman591 I'm sorry if my comments offended you. I just can't stand it when people who don't like something come to the videos of what they don't like and type negatively comments on it. I mean, if you don't like, why are you here in the first place? That's what I first thought when I saw your comment.
Willy2537 9 months ago
Comment removed
MerryGoFuckYourself 9 months ago
This dialogue actually misrepresents the philosophical implications of the original text why do Hollywood films have to change things better left alone?
turockandar 10 months ago
@turockandar Keyword: HOLLYWOOD. For example, in WE WERE SOLDIERS. The charge at the end never happened and Hal Moore told the director that whilst filming. The director told him, "We're filming a movie, this isn't the History Channel."
victorrain 4 months ago
The gold standard of submarine movies is of course Das Boot. But running a very close second is Crimson Tide, due in no small measure to the actors playing the protagonist/antagonist roles. Two of my all time favorite actors for sure!
fbrown172 10 months ago
does gene hackman's character come off as racist?
notabadguy06 11 months ago
@notabadguy06 Yes, I think so, by design. Of course he's such an enormous asshole he would never let his racism influence his command.
Hypnos7 10 months ago
@notabadguy06 absolutely not. if that were true, he wouldn't have even selected him as his XO. Hes just a hard ass who is used to getting his way 100% of the time.
LTDANMAN44 6 months ago
Favorite scene from the movie. With that great line ( that everyone should keep in mind ) : "war is a continuation of politics by other means". Very, very important line.
carl13220 11 months ago
amazing, thank you
theperfectionist 11 months ago
Is Gene Hackman still acting? Also, what was Washington's last movie (I'm not a huge movie fan, thus the questions)?
terminat1 1 year ago
All the officers except Denzel make my skin crawl.
SpaceMonkey1983 1 year ago
@SpaceMonkey1983
Vigo Mortensen's character was a good guy.
Ladiesman1447 9 months ago
Two great actors mentally jousting...thanks for posting!
salesinfluence 1 year ago
@salesinfluence Man you got that right two of the greatest actors to ever grace the screne.
CHC4669 1 year ago
Awesome scene! always loved this one!
madrounder7777 1 year ago
simply amazing
usa303 1 year ago
Thanks for the video
gvi341984 2 years ago
You are welcome
lokoyizone 2 years ago