The first example of "corporatism" (=Fascism,"=the merger of state and industry power," -Beniito Mussolini)was Elizabeth I's "East India Tea Company" charter.
A country called "America" was formed in direct opposition, defiance and refutation of that oppressive abuse by a government/business collaboration, police and military enforcing business' singular, amoral profit motive on the people. Then that country proceeded to do the same damn thing. (corporate co-opted "TEA party:" TAKE NOTE! )
ThIs also shows why we have separation of church & state, and as a democracy (not a fascist regime) are SUPPOSED to have separation of business and state. The state must not collude with business - that DEFINES fascism (cf:Mussolini's definition).
The church is only given government aid because it is NOT supposedly a "business" When it acts as one - well you get... this. Psychotic and schizophrenic contradictory acts, and suddenly inhuman behavior of a presumed(and supported)human set of values
Trinity Church did one thing, Trinity's Real Estate Arm -a BUSINESS- run by Wall Street Financiers (their "board")-did another.A church isn't a business and shouldn't be, any more than a government should be & this shows why.
We have problems today, of which neither Jesus nor the Founding Fathers/Constitution had any idea or concept. A business is not a person - and if you consider it so, it is an inherently asocially, muderously psychotic CRIMINAL"person"- See the Documentary"The Corporation."
It’s an attempt to carve out a protected space, a living conscience for the city, amid the repression. A refuge, in a city where control-freaks would sweep us under the rug, and out of the way. In a city where they would pen us in, and permit us to death...“move on, move on”..... you don’t belong, you don’t count, you don’t have a right to be here...don’t assemble, don’t block the street, don’t trespass, don’t EXIST! They would deny us, deny our lives, deny our very futures. IF WE LET THEM.
AGAIN, the board (VESTRY) of Trinity (who control the REAL ESTATE arm, something we've known since medieval times makes churches or clergy neither church nor clergy but merely another greedy corrupt business or individual,) are mostly Wall Street CEO/bankers. They're against OWS as OWS exists to expose and oppose the very corruption they have brought to government, and as OWS has now EXPOSED; even to the church.
In a city where control-freaks would sweep us under the rug and out of the way...as they deny us, as they deny our lives, as they deny our very futures....OWS responds, loudly, BOTH in word and in DEED: we BELONG, we STAND our ground, and we DO matter! This is OUR land, and we want it BACK! The word OCCUPY says it all! Trinity Church with its oft-proclaimed ideals (and its huge land holdings), should look deep into its collective soul, do the right thing, and help OWS.
In a city where control-freaks would sweep us under the rug and out of the way...as they deny us, as they deny our lives, as they deny our very futures....OWS responds, loudly, BOTH in word and in DEED: we BELONG, we STAND our ground, and we DO matter! This is OUR land, and we want it BACK! The word OCCUPY says it all!rinity Church with its oft-proclaimed ideals (and its huge land holdings), should look deep into its collective soul, do the right thing, and help OWS.
@rev2miles You see you're so arrogant about bible quotes and you don't even understand under what context Jesus went into the temple and you find it difficult to comprehend what you do read or you would have noticed that I never once quoted from the bible.
But, joanofarc? Their Vestry, that made this decision, IS Wall Street. they are Wall Street funded. My (today former) "Church"'s branch @ least in NY, worships Mammon - not God. Which side of the fence would Jesus be on?
@rhytonen Untrue. Go and take a look at the history. Trinity church has had its property for a very long time,they first purchased land in Manhattan in 1696, the bulk of the land they own in Manhattan dates back to 1705 when Queen Anne of England granted Trinity Church a large parcel of land on the west side of Manhattan stretching from present-day Fulton St. to Christopher St. It was once the Queens farm and became the church's farm, they hold these properties to this day!!
@joanofarc33 UM - tale a look at the vestry list. And they make the Real Estate decisions. It doesn't matter where they got the land - it matters whom they obey, just as it does with the government. And as OWS goes after the Masters, they exert their ifluenceto discourage it. Follow the money.
@rhytonen Jesus wouldn't forcibly try and take what isn't willingly given, he was just that kind of guy. Trinity had already extended itself to OWS when OWS asked for use of the site they were refused. And how does OWS reward the solidarity Trinity had shown? They storm and try and take it by force. Let me tell you that if I offer someone water cheese and milk it doesn't give them the right to storm into my house and take what they want from my pantry. Have some respect!
@rev2miles Jesus vandalized the temple because it was filled with money changers which was a defilement of the temple. He didn't go there to take the temple for himself. OWS didn't storm the site because of any wrongdoing or corruption on the part of Trinity, it was stormed so they could set up tents. It was for its own selfish needs. It should be taking over foreclosed homes but that's besides the point.
1. they weren't taking over for their own use - these are not mainly homeless people They were-and are- making a statement VERY MUCH based on DISOBEDIENCE. Because "OBEDIENCE" is the mechanism of the abuse they protest.
2. The "money changers" and their abuse and preying on the "captive" and defenseless people, are the PRECISE core issue of the Occupy WALL STREET movement. And the only thing that EVER moved the forgiving Christ to violence was that abuse.
@rhytonen Disobedience against what exactly? OWS is about fighting financial inequality, corporate corruption and abuses, corporate infiltration of the US government, bailouts, foreclosures, the disenfranchisement of the working and middle class, deregulation. Exactly how does that translate into trying to take over someone else's land after they have been helping OWS in other ways? What are you Israeli or something?
@joanofarc33 r2m's point was not the circumstances of the action, but the relative merits of the actors' values - the profit motive. Christs's exclusive violent (and singularly unforgiving) reaction was to the DIFFERENCE between holiness, righteousness if you will- and the profit motive. His lifetime behavior shows He considered NO two values so incongruous, thus, the profit motive -greed- to be THE ultimate evil. (people are SO thick sometimes...anyone know the joke about the blind prostitute?)
Trinity church and what they do or do not do isn't the 1%, they are not the legislators who deregulated the economy, they are not the politicians who gave financial institutions the bail-outs, they are not a large corporation polluting the planet or giving the poor slave wages in the name globalization. They are not the bankers who defrauded people's pensions.
I completely disagree with how OWS handled this situation. All they managed to do was alienate an institution that had given them support. Trinity had given them use of their offices, meeting rooms, restrooms and fed and gave them something hot when they were cold and how were they rewarded? By a group taking over the lot even after the church had denied them access. Nice. Ingratitude anyone?
The first example of "corporatism" (=Fascism,"=the merger of state and industry power," -Beniito Mussolini)was Elizabeth I's "East India Tea Company" charter.
A country called "America" was formed in direct opposition, defiance and refutation of that oppressive abuse by a government/business collaboration, police and military enforcing business' singular, amoral profit motive on the people. Then that country proceeded to do the same damn thing. (corporate co-opted "TEA party:" TAKE NOTE! )
rhytonen 2 weeks ago
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ThIs also shows why we have separation of church & state, and as a democracy (not a fascist regime) are SUPPOSED to have separation of business and state. The state must not collude with business - that DEFINES fascism (cf:Mussolini's definition).
The church is only given government aid because it is NOT supposedly a "business" When it acts as one - well you get... this. Psychotic and schizophrenic contradictory acts, and suddenly inhuman behavior of a presumed(and supported)human set of values
rhytonen 2 weeks ago
Trinity Church did one thing, Trinity's Real Estate Arm -a BUSINESS- run by Wall Street Financiers (their "board")-did another.A church isn't a business and shouldn't be, any more than a government should be & this shows why.
We have problems today, of which neither Jesus nor the Founding Fathers/Constitution had any idea or concept. A business is not a person - and if you consider it so, it is an inherently asocially, muderously psychotic CRIMINAL"person"- See the Documentary"The Corporation."
rhytonen 2 weeks ago
It’s an attempt to carve out a protected space, a living conscience for the city, amid the repression. A refuge, in a city where control-freaks would sweep us under the rug, and out of the way. In a city where they would pen us in, and permit us to death...“move on, move on”..... you don’t belong, you don’t count, you don’t have a right to be here...don’t assemble, don’t block the street, don’t trespass, don’t EXIST! They would deny us, deny our lives, deny our very futures. IF WE LET THEM.
11222stan 2 months ago
This land is your land This land is my land
From California to the New York island;
From the red wood forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and Me.
11222stan 2 months ago
@11222stan Even better: (& re: Civil -and even uncivil- disobedience of The Law)
"As through this world I've rambled, I've seen lots of funny men
Some rob you with a six gun - some with a fountain pen.
But as through this world you ramble, as through this world you roam
You'll never see an "outlaw"
drive a family from their home."
From My favorite Woody Guthrie tune - "The Ballad of Pretty Boy Floyd."
rhytonen 2 weeks ago
AGAIN, the board (VESTRY) of Trinity (who control the REAL ESTATE arm, something we've known since medieval times makes churches or clergy neither church nor clergy but merely another greedy corrupt business or individual,) are mostly Wall Street CEO/bankers. They're against OWS as OWS exists to expose and oppose the very corruption they have brought to government, and as OWS has now EXPOSED; even to the church.
The action was both appropriate and effective.
rhytonen 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
In a city where control-freaks would sweep us under the rug and out of the way...as they deny us, as they deny our lives, as they deny our very futures....OWS responds, loudly, BOTH in word and in DEED: we BELONG, we STAND our ground, and we DO matter! This is OUR land, and we want it BACK! The word OCCUPY says it all! Trinity Church with its oft-proclaimed ideals (and its huge land holdings), should look deep into its collective soul, do the right thing, and help OWS.
11222stan 2 months ago
In a city where control-freaks would sweep us under the rug and out of the way...as they deny us, as they deny our lives, as they deny our very futures....OWS responds, loudly, BOTH in word and in DEED: we BELONG, we STAND our ground, and we DO matter! This is OUR land, and we want it BACK! The word OCCUPY says it all!rinity Church with its oft-proclaimed ideals (and its huge land holdings), should look deep into its collective soul, do the right thing, and help OWS.
11222stan 2 months ago
Black, white, Asian, Latino, Islander, it doesn't matter. We are an army of one.
ZedStudiosFL 2 months ago
@rev2miles You see you're so arrogant about bible quotes and you don't even understand under what context Jesus went into the temple and you find it difficult to comprehend what you do read or you would have noticed that I never once quoted from the bible.
joanofarc33 2 months ago
Great footage. Good work with the monopod!
amoergosum3 2 months ago
But, joanofarc? Their Vestry, that made this decision, IS Wall Street. they are Wall Street funded. My (today former) "Church"'s branch @ least in NY, worships Mammon - not God. Which side of the fence would Jesus be on?
rhytonen 2 months ago
@rhytonen Untrue. Go and take a look at the history. Trinity church has had its property for a very long time,they first purchased land in Manhattan in 1696, the bulk of the land they own in Manhattan dates back to 1705 when Queen Anne of England granted Trinity Church a large parcel of land on the west side of Manhattan stretching from present-day Fulton St. to Christopher St. It was once the Queens farm and became the church's farm, they hold these properties to this day!!
joanofarc33 2 months ago
@joanofarc33 UM - tale a look at the vestry list. And they make the Real Estate decisions. It doesn't matter where they got the land - it matters whom they obey, just as it does with the government. And as OWS goes after the Masters, they exert their ifluenceto discourage it. Follow the money.
rhytonen 2 months ago
@rhytonen Jesus wouldn't forcibly try and take what isn't willingly given, he was just that kind of guy. Trinity had already extended itself to OWS when OWS asked for use of the site they were refused. And how does OWS reward the solidarity Trinity had shown? They storm and try and take it by force. Let me tell you that if I offer someone water cheese and milk it doesn't give them the right to storm into my house and take what they want from my pantry. Have some respect!
joanofarc33 2 months ago
@joanofarc33 um as i read it jesus went in and vandalized the temple read your bibe befor you quote it
rev2miles 2 months ago
@rev2miles Jesus vandalized the temple because it was filled with money changers which was a defilement of the temple. He didn't go there to take the temple for himself. OWS didn't storm the site because of any wrongdoing or corruption on the part of Trinity, it was stormed so they could set up tents. It was for its own selfish needs. It should be taking over foreclosed homes but that's besides the point.
joanofarc33 2 months ago
@joanofarc33 Two things wrong.
1. they weren't taking over for their own use - these are not mainly homeless people They were-and are- making a statement VERY MUCH based on DISOBEDIENCE. Because "OBEDIENCE" is the mechanism of the abuse they protest.
2. The "money changers" and their abuse and preying on the "captive" and defenseless people, are the PRECISE core issue of the Occupy WALL STREET movement. And the only thing that EVER moved the forgiving Christ to violence was that abuse.
rhytonen 2 months ago
@rhytonen Disobedience against what exactly? OWS is about fighting financial inequality, corporate corruption and abuses, corporate infiltration of the US government, bailouts, foreclosures, the disenfranchisement of the working and middle class, deregulation. Exactly how does that translate into trying to take over someone else's land after they have been helping OWS in other ways? What are you Israeli or something?
joanofarc33 2 months ago
@joanofarc33 r2m's point was not the circumstances of the action, but the relative merits of the actors' values - the profit motive. Christs's exclusive violent (and singularly unforgiving) reaction was to the DIFFERENCE between holiness, righteousness if you will- and the profit motive. His lifetime behavior shows He considered NO two values so incongruous, thus, the profit motive -greed- to be THE ultimate evil. (people are SO thick sometimes...anyone know the joke about the blind prostitute?)
rhytonen 2 weeks ago
@rhytonen ("You gotta hand it to her")
rhytonen 2 weeks ago
And yes I know they own vast amounts of real estate in NY city but that's not the point.
joanofarc33 2 months ago
Trinity church and what they do or do not do isn't the 1%, they are not the legislators who deregulated the economy, they are not the politicians who gave financial institutions the bail-outs, they are not a large corporation polluting the planet or giving the poor slave wages in the name globalization. They are not the bankers who defrauded people's pensions.
joanofarc33 2 months ago
I completely disagree with how OWS handled this situation. All they managed to do was alienate an institution that had given them support. Trinity had given them use of their offices, meeting rooms, restrooms and fed and gave them something hot when they were cold and how were they rewarded? By a group taking over the lot even after the church had denied them access. Nice. Ingratitude anyone?
joanofarc33 2 months ago
@joanofarc33 HMMM who's side should the church be on? What would Jesus do??
petiteAlicious 2 months ago