StarCraft 2 - [T] Marine, Tank, Raven: Timing Push ft. SC2 Ownage Shack - Strategy

[DoctorFurter]

thanks for the video bro. im glad to see a TvP strategy that isn't pure bio for once

[HuskyFB11]

Got a question for you folks. I play SC a lot and I do pretty well, but I don't really seem to get better or get over that hump of Gold league. My problem is that I don't utilize the small things like stim for marines for example. I see people use it all that time sometimes without medivacs. What is the advantage of using stim and when is it good to use. Another question: why do some people move marines stop fire move stop fire? Does that speed up the waiting time of them firing again?

[tainted939]

he said this build has hardcounters... build a bunker at ur ramp. hell this build has no counters.

[Howlkun]

Is there a reason the tanks are shooting at rocks throughout the battle starting at 8:14?

[Karionfabe1]

Ffs, EARLY PRESSURE is NOT an all in, just because he's attacking before or at 10minutes doesn't mean it's an all in. He's actually trying get ahead of his opponent, so that he can win in the mid/late game.

[terodar1]

@Karionfabe1 And that is why he has a super huge army?

[JensMcH]

why everyone makes videos with all ins. noone likes all ins. why you don´t make videos how counter such bullshit

sry but why you show guys to play all in

we all want to play long macro games ok unusually, he expanden but the most guys don´t make that oc

and sry for my bad english and that i overreacted a bit

[Feed4me]

Hey, ForceSC2 is this strategy viable again 1 base protoss? And also I've heard this strategy was viable against zerg as well.. Will this strategy be effective in both scenarios?

[aMzNeoXist]

People scouting eachother base... i hate that so much :S

[NahojBoyFTW12]

Thank you so much! :D

[SatanClauze]

Another balance rant? well nothing special here.

Anyway this strat is pretty awesome, it's worked countless times for me. The best is when the opponent tried to go dark templars, and the raven completely duped them ;D

[Aurilla92]

I play Zerg lol, but I don't think MULES are OP. It's annoying to see my 2 bases barely beating my 1 base Terran opponent on the income tab, yes. But Zerg can train 3+ (depending on inject larva) drones at a time from 1 hatch. Protoss can chrono boost out probes... MULE is just part of the balance

[Andrewsafb71]

@Aurilla92

I'll say it again, zerg and protoss still have to pay for the workers unlike the mule which only costs energy. It isn't balanced at all and read what you just said... you're 2 bases not beating their single base in income. They can use a single mule and be near expanding after it's expires

[XDarkstarZX]

@Andrewsafb71 Sure, 1 base terrans may beat 2 base zergs on income but with mules, their base mine out insanely fast. So their income may stay above for a while, but not for long.

[Andrewsafb71]

@XDarkstarZX

So T v Z revolves around the terrans making some big push at some point with their mule fueled army and than expanding and making up for lack of more scvs for 2nd base with more mules........ That doesn't sound like a fun game to me to just expect the inevitable big push

[XDarkstarZX]

@Andrewsafb71 Terrans take a while to make big pushes. 2 base Zergs can macro much faster as they can build drones at at least triple the rate of 1base terrans. I dont have the exact numbers of worker count but lets say a terran has 20 scvs at 5 minutes, zergs will generally have 25~30. another minute goes by and Zergs can choose to drone up even more (+10 more drones??) or build army. so by 6 minute mark. Zergs can have 40 drones and terrans have 25 scvs + 1 or 2 mules...

[Andrewsafb71]

@XDarkstarZX

Zerg is supposed to be economic fueled because of how little utility and effectiveness you get from the units. That's why everyone says zerg is supposed to be one base up, and to get that many larva to make that many drones you have to build a queen. So 2 queens to make all those larva is 300 minerals and will eventually pay for itself but a mule will pay for the orbital upgrade by itself.. you'll never see a zerg with 40 drones by 6 minutes.

[Andrewsafb71]

@XDarkstarZX

Also how many attackers will zerg have when you get that many drones? You lose a worker when you want to expand and make a building so there's more money wasted on replacing workers so investing in a building means that replacement drone cost 100 minerals. Shit's expensive, yeah you do have an scv pulled off the line for a time period but it doesn't mean you lose it. Mules are absolutely free and give you 6 workers instantly

[Aurilla92]

@Andrewsafb71

If they're near expanding they won't be making a huge army. Macro focused zerg players often go for their third expo pretty quickly.. not to mention having their second up so much sooner than a T or P opponent. One thing I should clarify, two fully saturated bases will beat a terran one base with MULEs... quite heftily. If you really think this is terrible balance issue go watch spanishwa's games. Hard early drones, mass queens and crawlers. i've used it in my games and it works

[Andrewsafb71]

@Aurilla92

Zerg is supposed to be up one base for some reason, though i don't know why, over terran and protoss. I think it's either for production or the cost of the units and how little effectiveness you get from them. Like a mutalisk being 100/100 and dying to 2 or 3 marines? Spanishwa only wins with mass queens or when the other guy thinks he's going to be going macro and spanishwa rushes him... he really isn't a player to hype up. Mules are free and drones aren't

[Aurilla92]

@Andrewsafb71

For production mainly.. though extra income is nice. To compete with T and P production you really need more larva. And while Mules are free, they cost 50 energy.. which takes time to build up. Hatcheries can pump out 3+ drones at a time. two fully saturated bases will easily outpace a single T base with mules. I've seen Sp win quite a few games with that strat.. and like I said, I almost always use it (except in ZvZ) and it works really well.

[Aurilla92]

@Andrewsafb71

Mass transfuse makes your queens and crawlers extremely hard to kill against an early push. meanwhile, you have the econ advantage. I don't think your example proves your point. Ultras cost a lot, but a banshee could kill them without taking a hit. This is a game about unit counters. Mutas are very squishy, but they are extremely fast which makes them amazing at harassing mineral line + buildings and forcing players to stay locked up in their base while you're free to expand.

[Andrewsafb71]

@Aurilla92

I'm sure the game wasn't intended for players to go mass queens, and there's plenty of other ways to stop "early pushes" Mutas aren't that great at all, you're a pussy if a flock of mutalisks makes you stay inside your base... what ground army will a zerg player have after investing in mutas? A bunch of zerglings which aren't that great either.

[Andrewsafb71]

@Aurilla92

how good are the mutas in a fight though is the point you won't have any econ advantage with queens and spine crawlers, zerg is supposed to be a base up to afford the units they have. you're supposed to have a LOT of them to do anything. Everyone says a one base zerg is not equal to a one base terran or toss

[Aurilla92]

@Andrewsafb71

You will.. mass producing drones early gives you way more minerals than you can spend. so you dump it into queens and crawlers. and with IL you still have a ton of drones ready pretty soon. whole point of mutas is to damage your opponents econ... unless your opponent did a good job harassing you or expo'd when you did, you'll be far ahead. try going no gas until 40 supply. you can pump out drones constantly plus your queens and crawlers. im telling you.. it works lol.

[Aurilla92]

@Andrewsafb71

theres really not much to argue against on this point lol. i do it, a bunch of other zerg players do it. mules or not, i've beaten a lot of terran players using this strategy.

[XDarkstarZX]

@Aurilla92 Thank you for being openminded and understanding that MULES are not OP.

[SigurdNORWAY]

Uh, why do the tanks attack the rocks at 8:27?

[double1buff]

why does everyone flame all other races than the one they play. Stop crying everyone, they are well balanced

[Andrewsafb71]

@double1buff

that's why they are still doing nerfs and buffs... patch 1.3.3 will be out in a month or so. I've played all of the races and orbital command is bullshit. Risk free scouting( dont lose any overlords or obs) and 270 minerals from a single harvester nonstop. It can pull a terran player back into a game after taking a a huge economic loss

[dreamerlith]

A single medivac or too would been another great composition to the build. As those marines were sitting idle for seconds, in such as they could been heal to full

[lecheparavaka]

i play protoss, and i always loose aganist MM...

[thatdudeoverthere456]

@lecheparavaka then counter with collosi :)

[MattNicholson7]

i think stim earlier would be better

[shufflecookie]

obs died instantly so theres a raven and when u see a raven everything is clear.. eerrrm..

[strikermovies4u]

ownage shack where do you find the strategy vids

[SC2OwnageShack]

@strikermovies4u I go to sc2rep - search it up on google. I basically browse through the replays there until I see one that interests me and then I make the video =)

[strikermovies4u]

@SC2OwnageShack well anyway your making great vids keep it up

[KHomedy]

zerg is op in this strat

[grandkill4]

Theorycrafters ftw! first show me more replays of this build succeeding, then we'll talk...

[Andrewsafb71]

LOL AT 10 MINUTE MARK "look at the income difference cause were so far ahead" rofl fucking broken imbalanced mules... 270 minerals bs

[Digifier]

@Andrewsafb71

Chrono boost isn't imbalanced ?

4gate isn't imbalanced ?

Plus, Terran loses time by getting the Orbital Command anyway.

Not to mention the time it takes to build the addons on all the buildings.

[thesketchydude118]

@Andrewsafb71 its not bs it balances out the terran with the other races toss and zerg can produce harvesters way faster than terran

[Andrewsafb71]

@thesketchydude118

well guess what they have to pay for those harvesters anyway, zerg or toss dont have any ability which gives you 270 minerals with no worker investment.

[Lazris59]

Just wondering, the protoss could of counter attacked, couldn't he? what happens if someone does that? also at 8:30, the reason his tanks died was because he was attacking the rocks for some reason...

[jacksonwwm]

Hm, I think a few cool pieces were missed by the commentator. PDD can create cool little hardpoints forcing that fight to either be avoided by the other guy or done slowly, losing more important units. I've done this without any Banshees and mostly relying on Bio with a few tanks just to bolster that "hardpoint" I'm talking about. The adaptation *AFTER* this push might be a bit tough and I don't like committing to a tech path like this for a single heavy push.

[InfernoOmni]

i use this build except i substitute tanks for thors and push out with 3 thors around the 11 minute mark. i also get the Raven first so that it can build up enough energy for two PDD's and deny any kind of scouting/dark templar asap

when i scout a 4gate 2/3 bunkers at the ramp should be able to hold early aggression off until the big push. and you're exactly right that during that push it is essential to expand and begin teching up.

great video

[aznghai]

i feel like im watching a documentary with the guys voice

[MikeSpuches]

Counting pylons was a new idea to me. I like that :D

[32KOAST]

you sound like a domesticated house dad.

[LloydChristmas777]

Nice strategy, though I don't think I could ever pull it off. Nice commentating -- one of the better ones.

[storvand]

00:32 It's a 2-player map 

[mexika84]

wow this would be even more effective against zerg

[oberchobo]

@mexika84 Mutas would´ve owned your banshees, your rines raped by his banelings and your raven (thats the unit this strat is build around) would be totally useless. I don´t want to rate your comment but it sounds obviously copper....

[Lazris59]

@oberchobo i didn't see who you replied to or what the comment was but why use this strat vs zerg? I like opening with hellion harass into marine/siege tank with medivac support. If I find he went 1b7r i would go quick seige tank or a few rauders to hold it off. Marines eat mutas, siege tanks eat everything else, including banelings.

[oberchobo]

@Lazris59 I didn´t talk to you... So whats your point?

[Lazris59]

@oberchobo point is the guy you replied to is nub? rofl. It was meant for him.

[nyczdavv]

Great unit composition. In reality though, while we are laddering - at the 5:45 in-game timer mark, there would have been a ton of gateway units because the toss went 4 gate. How often do you see a protoss actually FE against terran and 2 gate robo?

[Veisbergs1]

@nyczdavv All the time - It's actually standard to go 2/3 Gate expand PvT right now.

[wopspee]

"Really probes up hard."

[SpectralPlatypus]

1/1/1 is easy to understand, but DestinyCloudFist sounds way cooler!

[scarface1224md]

i really dont see wats so good about this build.

[HDErikBlog]

@scarface1224md whats good about this build is that you have to tell toss not to kill you and to run his stalkers back and forth in sige range while not using gardian shield.

[scarface1224md]

@HDErikBlog yea i can see that. thanks for the reply, but its like a normal build. tanks rines, and just no medivacs. pretty standard stuff with the exception of the raven and banshees

[romanphoenix999]

@YourVideoIsAwful And hope the protoss doesn't make HT or collosus or DT? Because marines are vulnerable to all those things. Even Blink stalkers could counter your build.

Massing marauder and later adding on tanks and medivacs or going for an early 2 rax push is way more effective against toss.

[antasaur]

minute*

[EnjoiCodyHarrison]

i subbed to listen to force. Not diffrent people.

[fatrend]

At like 8:30 his tanks were shooting those rocks. O.o

[imyodaddio22]

love it keep up the good work

[STJDWT]

whats the point defense drone do?

[ssccoorr87]

this is a great strat but i feel i can be punished with 4 gates ,3 gates rush and prxy stargate. even 3 gates robo or expo with fast colossus. ! great casting btw :P

[JinRohCommando]

Tastelessbuild right there.

[Cascademenace]

Of course...I ain't no DieStar...

[noamzilo]

protoss played bad: he did exp+robo without scouting.

[romanphoenix999]

@noamzilo He could've know terran had 1/1/1 with banshee, raven and tanks.

[noamzilo]

@romanphoenix999 he started exp and tech BEFORE he saw anything.

[aCanoCoke]

This owned the crap outta me the first time I saw this hahaha

[armahaloprotos]

Ownage Shack, i have a cuestion!!!

you mencion hard counters to this strat, can you mencion some of them or make a video to counter this???

[SC2OwnageShack]

@armahaloprotos Hey man!

The hard counters to this build are anything that applies very early presure, especially 1 base allins.

This build will be hard pressed to stop 4 gate rushes, 3 gate rushes, 3 gate robo, and 3 gate stargate builds unless you invest in at least 2 bunkers.

This is something I may make a video of on my own channel but here at FSG I'm a Terran strategist.

[armahaloprotos]

@SC2OwnageShack

thaks, i am subscribing to your chanel :)

[romanphoenix999]

@SC2OwnageShack Nice vid ownageshack. I really enjoyed it.

But can you recommend a Protoss strategist here on youtube?

[SC2OwnageShack]

@romanphoenix999 Glad you liked it! My favourite pure protoss player on YouTube is Suggy, whose channel is StarcraftConnection. He doesn't do explicit strategy videos, but he does FPVOD's where he explains his decisions as he goes. He's quite funny too, check it out!

[spiritusinvacuo]

@SC2OwnageShack hi, I've been trying this strategy today and had a lot of success with it... only lost to a dude who caught me unsieged due to my stupid impatience... thanks man! subscribed :)

[SC2OwnageShack]

@spiritusinvacuo That's great! Happy  to help =)

[OsnaSkyline]

nice Strategy, Ownage Shack :)

[djuraster]

great stuff....we want more :D

[dar482]

Tasteless build! :D

[penquinftw]

This commentator is really really great.

[antasaur]

the "A-Click and win"

Terran strategies, nothing new, Herp derp, derp herp

[boarderke]

@antasaur a click and win? this strat requires ALOT more skill than any toss build

[toda20]

@boarderke "This strat requires alot more skill than any toss build"

I did not like this way to frame this at all. First of all, there will ALWAYS be a build that is require more skill than this build, because there is no limit to how much skill is required, whether you are protoss, zerg or terran.

Second, there are a lot of things you don't have to think about when executing this build, like macroing with several bases at once. This strat only takes some basic build order, micro and harassment.

[antasaur]

@boarderke It was a good push with a nice composition, i will agree on that, however Terran takes less Actions per munite to exicute basic RTS functionalities.

[romanphoenix999]

@boarderke any toss build? Blink stalkers, HT, forcefields, collosus, immortals require a lot of micro for maximum effectiveness.

[oz2973]

@boarderke try having HT and some Sentries and micro that,

and in mid-late games you can have HT Sentries and blink stalkers

but sure moving some tanks around and microing MM like everybody knows requires alot more skill right?

[Limitlesszebra]

@oz2973 IDK stimming up, stutter step, drop play, tank placement/leap frogging, VS 1 giant deathball where FF are only as effective as to how fast you can spam them and PSI storm that forces you to move you units back, in which 9 range collossi have free fire on them, or take around 80 dmg. :O but wait! Your units can't move because they're trapped by the FF that require SO much skill to use!

[oz2973]

@Limitlesszebra hard to press 1 than stim?

drops are for all and that is so wierd you didn't knew that.

most terran will just get a tank MM ball and siege them inside that ball and they will win

FF is only effective as to that..? what with rushes of marines? on small maps you don't need a proxy rax cus you will have atleast 2 marines vs zealot and marines can micro easliy

this can be blocked with a FF every few sec and map control so you will see that coming

and you can micro towards the colos

[Limitlesszebra]

@oz2973 lol someone is having issues with their typing, can't even respond to this because I don't know what the hell your trying to say .

[oz2973]

@Limitlesszebra ipassed the 500 characters limit so i had to make it shorter and a bit wierder :)

[Limitlesszebra]

@oz2973 sure...

[abvgdejziukl]

@boarderke All races require an equal amount of skill if you think otherwise you suck and can't play for shit.

[ant1nerd]

@boarderke bullshit. its not easy to micro, but some toss builds also require lots of skill. typical terran player trash talk

[g4111]

@boarderke Try playing toss against a good terran player and you will quickly see just how hard it can be to defend against well micro'd tanks, marines and marauders.

[iliketurtles1096]

@antasaur yeh u know u just clik ur units to ur enemys base and ur soo good that the tanks seige themselves so they are protected and well placed and ur ravens use defense pint drones and seeker missiles and turrets at the correct time completely by themselves and also when your units are in a fight and ur realise ur losing it ur units pull themselves away yep. just 1 click

[ankstroms]

@antasaur you know nothing about this game at all congrats!

[virdicyer]

Nothing special here. Just pwn them with better unit comp, make them create units you want. No big difference on harvesting rate since terran muled a lot.

[nguyentruong1914]

How to counter to this strat as protoss ?

[SupermeSebas]

@nguyentruong1914 blink stalkers with some sentries and some colossi

[nguyentruong1914]

@SupermeSebas I mean the first push of terran and you dont have much stuffs like that.

[romanphoenix999]

@nguyentruong1914 more sentries, blink, better spread of your units, higher tech or just NOT expanding that early.

If i counted right, he only made 1 gate and when his second was halfway done he made his nexus. When nexus was building he went robo. While the more general build is 3gate expand (especially on a map with an open expansion like this map).

Or like someone else said in the comments, make chargelots.

[MonoCabron123]

@nguyentruong1914 4 gate! Or  simply don't early expand.

[LaszloChicken]

tanks attacking rocks LOL at 8:30

[tpyka]

Its nice to show replays of a retarded protoss opponent; instead of stalkers get chargelots and ul see what i mean

[striker0299]

wait,what if when he scouted with his hellion and there wasent a nexus what would the terran player do then

[lowfatfishsticks]

He knew everything that Terran had. He saw no expo, the factory and barracks. And there is obviously a starport because of banshees

[cdcdx2]

@lowfatfishsticks not to mention the raven that saw the observer.

[hsh24892]

Can you please do tutorial for terran against 4 gate push and against zerg?

[i8hy6e3]

@hsh24892 banshee or tank will be good against 4 gate push and zerg.

[SC2OwnageShack]

@hsh24892 Thanks for the idea, I'll consider this!

[urmomsmom]

Awesome!!! loved the new guy!!! thumbs up!!!

[KoricTheBrave]

Wow very nice. I am so gonna try this.

Details in explanation were quite clear and understandable. Although I didn'T like the part where he let his tanks out of sight for a moment and lost two, he was doing great damage with those.

I noticed he did not mainly use his banshees to harass the mineral line causing economic damage. He actually used them in the fight, do you recommend that we do it this way?

[agostinho1234]

@KoricTheBrave using for harassment is fundamental to distract (staying an observer to track the harass banshee) and force him to produce stalkers ( which will be denied from the strategy with tanks and marines + raven). And you still be able to use the banshees to fight if you take care about her and keep her alive. In other words, you will be one step ahead of your enemy.

[KoricTheBrave]

@agostinho1234 ah I see so basicaly make them multitask make them do as much damage as possible and get your moneys worth?:P

[Advenger22]

Really like this guy, you can tell he knows what he's talking about. Also clicking the gas to see when

[Midnightblues94]

Some seriously excellent tips here. The checking the number of pylons at the initial scout? Brilliant. Fantastic video, great work.

[gamingaddictmike125]

Not a huge fan of this guy tbh. but he has some good things to him. good strat video :D

[LakrezSSL]

darn... I was too slow! 58 :(

Screw youtube message mails :D

[Advenger22]

hnn, I don't like the idea of that build order, but as long as people understand that its the foundation of the build then it'll be good =D

[meltdownband]

safe man

[ReplacedKnight]

yay 5th!



[KcKelLi]

THE QUALITY IS BEAUTIFUL

[KcKelLi]

HOLYY 4TH

[yesiamdaz]

third lol

[SouLLessNewb]

first lol

[MrKillbot3000]

first?