The hands and concentration of John Taylor

[ligtube1323]

Taylor would have been the number one receiver on any team without Jerry Rice. Plus his return skills! he should be considered for the HOF.

[oysterjoe]

You can see the John 3:16 sign in the end zone. Brings back memories. Wonder whatever happened to that guy. As I remember he was a brother with a rainbow colored "fro". Used to be at the b-ball games also.

Wonder if he still has his faith? [I know the fro must be long gone].

[1jmasonthebarber]

This is my Dude, I'm his Barber!!!

[ryan49er1]

if rice was the jordan of football then taylor was pippen

[joshuathefrank]

Jerry Rice overshadowed John Taylor... Bottom line: John Taylor needs to be in the Hall of Fame

[jfliguy]

@joshuathefrank Sorry JT is not going in to the HOF. He was a good Supporting Wingman but his career did not merit HOF honors. As a fan of JT and Jerry Lee, I have to admit that he had a good career but not HOF standards

[Aguzman0077]

That cokehead had the biggest ass any WR ever had

[diamonbacks47]

I disagree, John Taylor is a Hall of Famer. If there was no Jerry rice, He would have been entitled to a larger percentage of the offensive calls, and the guy made Devon Hester and Dante Hall releveant. He was a game changer and an open field threat every time he touched the ball. He was a great blocker and has three Super Bowl rings. Just remember he had 347 catches and about 6000 yards. Al Toon had over 500 catches and only 6500 yards, just by comparison, and Taylor had more touchdowns

[Ginga]

@diamonbacks47

How did Taylor make Hester and Hall relevant? Both are/were infinitely better punt returners than Taylor ever was.

[Ricearoni80]

@Ginga Yeah, the 49ers had to take Taylor off punt returns after a couple years to keep him fresh. He was really taking a beating with all his aggressive open-field running.

[Ginga]

@Ricearoni80

I wouldn't classify four years as " a couple" but it's not a big deal.

[fadarrell]

@Ginga nice talking to someone on here that didn't go crazy and start name calling. Thanks for keeping it civilized.....good night dude. 

[Ginga]

@fadarrell

Same to you.

[fadarrell]

@Ginga Sterlin Sharpe's lack of jewelry hurts him but for someone who led the league in rec 6 yrs that a good arguement.

[Ginga]

@fadarrell

I like Sharpe but I think longevity hurts him more than a lack of rings. Guys who played in the same era as him played much longer than he did.

[someymehra]

I miss u Bill Walsh:(

[Ginga]

Like others have said, Taylor was an incredible talent and certainly made Rice's job easier but based on his play alone, he's not Hall of Fame worthy in my opinion.

[fadarrell]

@Ginga John Taylor 2 ProBowls,3SuperBowls,347rec,55­98yds,43tds not in the Hall of Fame Lynn Swann 3 Probowls, 4SuperBowls, 336rec, 5462yds, 51tds in the Hall of Fame this is BS John Taylor SHOUL D BE IN THE HALL OF FAME OR LYNN SWANN SHOULD NOT BE IN THE HALL OF FAME.

[Ginga]

@fadarrell

You're comparing different eras. Passing was much more common in the mid-80s to mid-90s when Taylor played than in the 70s when Swann played.

[fadarrell]

@Ginga Wrong Swann and Stallworth were a double threat ALWAYS....sure west coast wasn't in yet but it was known that the Steelers were going to USE THE WEAPONS THEY HAD which include Harris, Swann, Stallworth, what was that fullback oh yeah Rocky but the Pass was DEFINATELY AN OPTION in the 70's for the STEELERS.

[Ginga]

@fadarrell

How am I wrong? Passing in 80s and 90s WAS more common than it was in the 70s. You can't argue with facts dude.

[fadarrell]

@Ginga that's true but I'm saying that SWANN got his calls in terms of opportunities for touches on the ball compared to Taylor and they match up pretty evenly IMO.

[Ginga]

@fadarrell

They may have been even but that was more because Taylor was behind Rice in the pecking order. Had Taylor been a #1 WR for a team during his playing days, he would have received far more targets than Swann did.

[Ricearoni80]

@Ginga And yet you mention the guys from the late 90's/2000's WHY?

Smith, Mason, and Driver scare no one. They're bread-and-butter modern day receivers. Torry Holt is one of the most overrated players in NFL history...he owes his career to Mike Martz. Bruce was great when healthy but not the big play guy Taylor was.

[Ginga]

@Ricearoni80

Smith, Mason and Driver scare(d) no one? Really? Whatever you say man. All 3 have showed better longevity than Taylor and compiled better stats. You're entitled to your opinion on Holt but a lot of people would disagree with you. No, Bruce wasn't the big-play threat Taylor was but his 14.9 career yards per catch and 6 seasons where he averaged over 15 YPC suggest he was a capable big-play WR. Plus, the man played for 16 year & is in the top 10 in terms of yards and receptions.

[Ricearoni80]

@Ginga Smith, Mason, and Driver are/were generally possession receivers. Receivers who aren't gonna do much but catch 10-12 yard passes don't threaten defenses the same. They compiled "better stats" in the cumulative sense only, and they were all the #1 receiver for their teams. 1,000 yard possession receivers are a dime a dozen in this era. Taylor was a split end in the 49ers' offense, a system where nobody has ever caught more than 67 passes in the role (and that was Terrell Owens in 1998).

[Ginga]

@Ricearoni80

Smith, Mason & Driver didn't/don't threaten defenses the way Taylor did but they moved the chains & were certainly capable of big plays too. Mason was also 1 of the better better kick & punt returners in the NFL for a few years. Yes, 1000-yard possession are common in today's NFL, which further dilutes the WR HOF arguments. The system Taylor played in is irrelevant. If he was truly a HOF-player, why didn't he eventually overtake Rice and become San Francisco's flanker?

[Ricearoni80]

@Ginga For what it's worth, the late 49ers scouting director (from their dynasty years) Tony Razzano was quoted as saying he thought Taylor could have done everything Rice did "if given the opportunity."

The main knock on Taylor was durability. He was constantly dinged up. Rice was the most durable receiver in football history...that was enough of a reason to keep him in the role. That and the fact that his dedication was second-to-none. Besides, Rice was spectacular.

[Ginga]

@Ricearoni80

That's quite a complement and having seen numerous old videos of the 49ers during their Super Bowl years, I believe Razzano. Taylor was special player. You're right about Rice.

[fadarrell]

@Ginga John Taylor's hands were awsome, he was one of the greatest blocking WRs in history of the modern game and he was the hero of the SUPER BOWL against the Bengals with the winning TD. HE SHOULD BE IN THE HALL OF FAME.

[Ginga]

@fadarrell

No, he shouldn't. If Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Andre Reed Sterling Sharpe, Drew Pearson and so many others aren't in the HOF, Taylor shouldn't be either. Guys like Rod Smith, Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Derrick Mason, Donald Driver and others who played in in late 90s, early '00s era may never get in and you think Taylor is HOF-worthy? Please...

[fadarrell]

@Ginga many of the ones you mention here are not even eligable yet but Drew's comparison is Receptions 489, Receiving yards 7,822, Touchdowns 48, and 1 Super Bowl......I think he should be in but that 1 SB is what MAY be keeping him out....Sharpe, Smith, Holt, Bruce, Mason, Driver, I'm not sure all are eligable yet...I may be wrong though.

[Ginga]

@fadarrell

Sharpe is eligible but will likely never get it. None of the others players are eligible but they will all retire with significantly better statistics than Taylor and will make the WR position even more convoluted.

[fadarrell]

@Ginga by convoluted....how? I'm mean I know what the word means but How? I hope Im not being a butt hole....lol

[fadarrell]

@Ginga but here's the question do you think SWANN should be in?

[Ginga]

@fadarrell

Yes. He played in era where passing wasn't common but was still integral part of a dynasty. His performances in the Super Bowl cement his place too.

[fadarrell]

@Ginga and the performance of Taylor in the Super Bowls HE played in was chicken crap in your opinion? He won the game in one of them and cemented the possibility for the team to play in the SB in the Div TITLE GAME at another time. TAYLOR SHOULD BE IN DUDE no disrespect to you.

[fadarrell]

@Ginga name one other WR that has 2 90+ TD REC in the same game and could be a game changer at ANY MOMENT from a number of possitions...WR, punt returner, pass option.....I know that's loaded but dang man....he is worthy.....

[Ginga]

@fadarrell

WR and "pass option" are the same thing man. No, his MNF game against the Rams was amazing but it was but one game in an 8-year career. No other player has done what Taylor did that night but Tim Brown was a better WR and punt returner than Taylor for his career, did it longer and he's not in the HOF yet.

[fadarrell]

@Ginga true but he will be no reason to deny Taylor though....

[fadarrell]

@Ginga I was speaking in terms of Taylor PASSING the rock for major gains and TD's bro.

[fadarrell]

@Ginga and Tim Brown wasn't on a team with the greatest WR (player) of all time RICE.

[fadarrell]

@Ginga Carter, Brown, Reid will be in soon but I believe they would have to wait until Taylor is in if it comes down to it....age before beauty....

[Ginga]

@fadarrell

You can't be serious.

[fadarrell]

@Ginga heck yeah I'm serious....

[diamonbacks47]

@Ginga Wow, can't believe you tried to compare Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce to john Taylor. Someone needs go football school

[Ginga]

@diamonbacks47

How about reading my post? Did I ever compare Holt or Bruce to Taylor? I didn't. I brought their names up as players who arguably have HOF resumes but may never get it. Both of them are players who have played in Super Bowls and have put up better statistics than Taylor partly because they played in a more pass-happy era. Regardless, what f I were to compare either of them to Taylor? Both of them are more than worthy of comparison.

[James51195]

taylor has to be in the NINERS hall of fame. retire no. 82

GO NINERS!

[luigininipaganini]

JT must be in the HOF.

[drewsome37]

John Taylor...My god he was amazing...God bless the 49er glory days.

[lozvic]

taylor is the best n 2 wr history of the 49ers

[smbaer424]

Taylor was a God, the Niners were blessed to have 2 amazing WR's at the same time, no wonder they won so much, didn't hurt to have another God playing QB

[prod1gy3000]

If he wasn't lined up opposite a Hall of Famer, John Taylor was a number one receiver on half of the teams in the league back then. He had gobs of talent.

[Supermonkey22]

Taylor was a perfect compliment to Jerry. A guy with great speed and killer hands. He also shunned the spotlight...content to go out there and do his work. Is Jerry the best to ever put on a uniform? Yep. But did JT make Jerry better for a few years?? Yep..even Jerry has said that...and who wants to second guess the king? Nope.

[BIGRED224FOREVER]

Taylor was money............came from 2 miles down the road tiny delstate college! Hey hall of fame committee wtf?

[2SANFRANCISCO]

John Taylor is a Hall of Fame WR. He played with all the same great tools and determination,- great hands, speed, route running, blocking, and work ethic. The fact he put up the stats he did with Rice on the other side,- as well as being a great punt returner,- is Hall of Fame worthy. He had mad concentration, and made a lot of big clutch plays. Against the Bengals in the SB,- Rice led 'em down the field,- but it was Taylor who caught the winning pass. Greatest #2 Receiver of all time.

[rickunc]

JT was considered the best wr on the TEAM(with Rice there). football wasnt Taylor's 1st passion at all and thats why he didnt cry over 50 rec a year. I wish he was a little selfish so we could have seen his superior skill over Rice. HE WAS ONE OF THE BEST WR IN THE LEAGUE EASILY WITHOUT EFFORT. Rice's legacy wouldnt be what it is now without Taylor on the other side PERIOD!!!!

[EmceeNolan]

Taylor caught plenty of passes every year he was reasonably healthy. 60 in 14 1/2 games in 1989, 49 in 13 1/4 games in 1990, 64 in 16 games in 1991, and 56 in 1993. You're not going to catch 80 balls as a #2 receiver in that style of offense. With a balanced run/pass ratio, the backs catching 100+ balls every year, and the focus on getting Rice the ball, there simply wasn't enough to go around.

The one flaw with Taylor was he was beat up nearly every season from his determined style of play.

[cbaldwinjr]

I disagree with the opinion that you can't be productive with big numbers as the #2 guy in the WC offense...Rice and Brown had over 75 catches in '01 and '02 for the Raiders. Owens and Stokes both had 1000 yd seasons in '97 when Rice went out. Brooks and Freeman were both over 1000 yds in '97 as well. The difference is that Jerry Rice was clearly the best receiver in football while Taylor was a GREAT fit as the split end in the WC offense. But he's not a HOF player.

[EmceeNolan]

Well first of all, a factual correction: Stokes never posted 1,000 yards. Owens didn't even post 1,000 yards the year Rice was out.

Secondly, Robert Brooks caught 60 balls himself as the #2 in 1997. Right in line with what I was saying. You can only post big numbers if you do a lot with the limited number of balls thrown your way.

Re: Oakland: Trestman was as pass happy as it gets. Taylor played 1 year under Trestman--his last year in the NFL-- and he was in and out of the lineup all year.

[cbaldwinjr]

I don't understand that line of thinking. Jerry Rice was a Pro Bowler at 40. AT 40 F$!%ING YEARS OLD! Whether it was Owens, Sherrard, Taylor, Tim Brown, Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, Mike Wilson, JJ Stokes, etc...Jerry delivered. To say that he wouldn't have been as good without John Taylor is flat out idiotic. Seriously...Taylor benefited from having the G.O.A.T. at WR play opposite HIM. I know this is a 49er love fest here, but TRY to have some objectivity.

[EmceeNolan]

How did Taylor benefit from having Rice take balls away from him while largely playing the Z, which was the receiver position of focus that was greatly assisted by combination routes?

Also, if you want to get technical, Rice struggled statistically quite a bit when Taylor was out for a 7 game stretch in 1992.

During that period, he caught 35-505-4. If you remove the outlier 7-183-2 game against Atlanta, his numbers for the other 6 games were 28-322-2. Projects to 75-859-6 for 16 games.

[cbaldwinjr]

You were right about some of those numbers. Stokes sucked and Owens didn't come into his own for a few years. But the idea that Jerry Rice wasn't good without John Taylor is still idiotic. You bring up Trestman in 1995...Taylor's last year. Wasn't that Jerry best year statistically? With Elvis Grbac playing quite a few games. He still caught 122 passes for 1848 yds and 15 TD's. Should've been the MVP considering Derek Loville and Adam Walker were the RB's and Grbac the QB for a stretch

[EmceeNolan]

Oh no, I didn't Rice wasn't good without Taylor. That would just be idiotic. They were both tremendous receivers on their own. I just don't like it when people somehow credit Rice for Taylor's play.

Yes, in terms of receptions and yards, that was Rice's best total. The point I was making is simply that Trestman was pass happy--95 is a good indication of that, as the 49ers threw 644 passes. That makes it more likely for both starting receivers to catch more balls.

[Croctden]

"Taylor was generally considered better than Rice"

Too stupid for me to even bother with.

[Croctden]

As a lifelong 49ers fan I love John Taylor, the Bengals catch is one of my most cherished childhood memories, but he isn't a Hall of Famer. He only made 1 probowl as a WR (one as PR) with only two 1,000 yard season. No one focused on him with Rice there. But I have an easier argument: there was no point during his career that we thought of John Taylor as one of the best WRs in the NFL. The best tandem yes, but not best individual. Thats no Hall of Famer.

[EmceeNolan]

The "no one focused on him with Rice there" is a BS argument. The reality is, no one was able to focus on Rice because Taylor was there. That's one of the reasons Rice's numbers dwarf everyone else's. Otherwise, what you're essentially saying is that Rice dwarfed everyone else while having to face constant "focus" because he had that bum, JT, on the other side.

49ers scouting director Tony Razzano once said Taylor could've done everything Rice did if he'd been the team's #1 WR/FL.

[Croctden]

JT never lined up for a game in his life (well in the NFL) where he was the #1 focus of the defense. Jerry did every day. If you'd paid attention to my post you would've noticed I said JT was good. I'm not saying Jerry was getting the focus because JT was a bum - it was because Jerry was that damn good. That it was happens when you are the greatest of all time. It is a compliment to Rice, not a knock on JT.

[EmceeNolan]

That's such a load of garbage. Football does not work that way. Defenses can't focus on a particular player (ESPECIALLY a wide receiver) when he's being moved around and they have no idea before the snap where he will play.

It's even harder when the system has the particular receiver running route after route OVER THE MIDDLE...against linebackers and safeties.

And yes, it's a knock on JT, because if Rice was really getting the kind of focus you allege, he should've put up ENORMOUS numbers.

[Croctden]

Really? Defenses are totally incapable of keeping track of a receiver and rolling their coverage to him so there is a safety over the top? No, that NEVER happens...

After that stupid of a statement I'm through debating you.

[EmceeNolan]

You're new to this "football" thing, aren't you?

Have you heard of these things called "systems?" How about these things called "plays?" The offense calls a play...and so does the defense. Both coordinators mix and match which plays they call. Defensive players don't stand around going, "gee, where's Receiver X? PUT TWO GUYS ON HIM!!!"

By the way, there are nearly ALWAYS safeties over the top. A safety over the top is essentially meaningless unless the receiver is running a vertical pattern.

[EmceeNolan]

Oh, and why don't you admit the REAL reason you're "through debating with me." It's because you realize that you're outgunned and don't wish to be embarrassed any further.

[EmceeNolan]

Additionally, Taylor was always thought of as one of the league's premier WRs. Not sure what you're remembering, but he was sucked off in basically every single game. The "he'd be the #1 receiver on just about any other team" comment was ubiquitous.

[raidernation7878]

JOHN TAYLOR!!!!!

[raclos234]

john taylor was like the john stallworth of the 49ers. made great plays but will never get his just due b/c of the greatness of the 'other' receiver in this case it was the greatest jerry rice. in stallworth's case...it was lynn swann.

he may get in the hall of fame one day...after many tries of getting shot down by the HOF voting committee.

i think stallworth finally got n the hall, right?

[justgeorge42]

couldn't agree more. i was thinking the same kind of argument. would if lynn swann didn't have stallworth? what would have his career been like then......?

[Market42Fan]

Just noticed the pass was from Steve Bono (anyone remember him?)

[nfldude28]

I do

[fuerstt]

For sure! Did he end up on Tampa Bay? or was it the Cheifs?

[Market42Fan]

Bono went to the Chiefs and then bounced around with some other teams (among them, Green Bay) late in his career. I don't remember him being with the Bucs.

[conace21]

Bono followed Montana to KC in 1994 and actually made the 1995 Pro Bowl. He spent some time in Green Bay St. Louis and Carolina at the end of his career

[a9erSYKO]

5 years ago, i talked to eric wright. he told me that taylor and tim mcdonald are neighbors. jt now owns his own trucking company.

[LDD86]

It's Bill Walsh on color commentary in that first clip vs/ the chiefs (1991 season)!

[jfliguy]

John Taylor is one of my favorite players, but only the ones that really know him and respect his game will feel he will like me. The voters will think he do not because they are assclowns.

[JRice80fan]

Taylor was good, but not a hall of famer.

[tubenoob101]

jc pearson sucks. why does he do 49er games on fox?

[casanova3233]

a gud one